Why do most Italians have blue eyes and blond/red hair if they are southern European?

[AnonUser]

Why don't they have mostly dark features like other other southern Europeans? Are they really northern Europeans who migrated to southern Europe?

[Roy]

http://forum-s3.pinside.com/201209/406471/43777.jpg

[AnonUser]

Its not a dumb question I was just wondering why they aren't like other southern Europeans

[GrebluBro]

Its not a dumb question I was just wondering why they aren't like other southern Europeans

You are either Sarcastic or dumb; or you took only North Italians as the only Italians

[AnonUser]

You are either Sarcastic or dumb; or you took only North Italians as the only Italians

I'm talking about most Italians in general except Sicilians and Sardinians cause they aren't real Italians and that's why they look so different from them

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Lol

[1stLightHorse]

Since when do most Italians have blue eyes? A significant portion does, but i don't know how you could think the majority do.

[AnonUser]

Since when do most Italians have blue eyes? A significant portion does, but i don't know how you could think the majority do.

Even most of the players on the Italian national team have blue eyes

[1stLightHorse]

Even most of the players on the Italian national team have blue eyes

That's probably because national sporting teams are made up of the athletic elite.

I've never seen a short, fat, swarthy italian considered athletic elite.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Since when do most Italians have blue eyes? A significant portion does, but i don't know how you could think the majority do.

And most having blond/red hair.

[Stimpy]

Average Italian man:
http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/italian.jpg

[Vukodav]

Even most of the players on the Italian national team have blue eyes
In which sport? Viking games?

[AnonUser]

That's probably because national sporting teams are made up of the athletic elite.

I've never seen a short, fat, swarthy italian considered athletic elite.

None of the other southern European team have mostly blue eyes.

I've only seen short, fat, swarthy Sicilians. Not really Italians

[Svipdag]

Unless things have changed in the 59 years since I was last in Italy, I noticed no such preponderance of red/blond hair and blue eyes among Italians. The vast majority of those whom I encountered in Genova, Livorno. Pisa, Firenze, Roma, Napoli and Taranto had black hair and brown eyes. Are these latter traits confined primarily to the coast ?

[GrebluBro]

I'm talking about most Italians in general except Sicilians and Sardinians cause they aren't real Italians and that's why they look so different from them

You can exclude central Italians as well because they aren't real Italians according to you..

OOPS!! Rome is in central Italy, who cares since most don't have blue eyes blonde-red hair :lol:

[AnonUser]

You can exclude central Italians as well because they aren't real Italians according to you..

OOPS!! Rome is in central Italy, who cares since most don't have blue eyes blonde-red hair :lol:

Italians don't look like you for some reason want them to in your fantasies

[AnonUser]

In which sport? Viking games?

Of the current squad, De Rossi, Abate, Criscito, Maggio, Buffon, Marchisio, Giaccherini, and Diamanti all have blue eyes and light hair except Buffon, who's last name sounds French. That's most of them. In fact only a few of them even have dark hair and dark eyes and one of them (Pirlo) according to sources is part Sinti gypsy and not even fully Italian.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Average Italian man:
http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/italian.jpg

This. look like the average Italian man from the Italian resturant pizzeria Where I sometimes go to eat at. the only thing they look like a more older version of this guy here.

[AnonUser]

Average Italian man:
http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/italian.jpg

That looks more like an average Greek man

[Stimpy]

That looks more like an average Greek man
But it isn't.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

That looks more like an average Greek man

He looks like the average Italian man from the Italian resturant Where I sometimes go to eat at. the only thing they look like a more older version of that guy.

[AnonUser]

He looks like the average Italian man from the Italian resturant Where I sometimes go to eat at. the only thing they look like a more older version of that guy.

Maybe he's really Sicilian. I've seen lots of Italians and very few of them look like that "average Italian man"

[Stimpy]

Maybe he's really Sicilian. I've seen lots of Italians and very few of them look like that "average Italian man"
There are quite alot of blue eyed Italians and some(even if they are very few) are red-haired and blonde. The majority of Italians though, have dark hair and eyes, that's just fact. If you deny this you're either delusional or trolling.

[AnonUser]

There are quite alot alot blue eyed Italians and some(even if they are very few) are red-haired and blonde. The majority of Italians though, have dark hair and eyes, that's just fact. If you deny this you're either delusional or trolling.

And you base this on what exactly?

[GrebluBro]

And you base this on what exactly?

Dude it is very obvious...I lived in NY for long time.
Only minority (may be 15%) of Italians got blue-eyes and blonde hair..

However if you take only upper one third Italy, they would be more

[Damião de Góis]

Are they really northern Europeans who migrated to southern Europe?

Before the age of genetics this could be open to discussion, but not now. Now you're either misinformed or trolling. I would bet on the latter.

[AnonUser]

Before the age of genetics this could be open to discussion, but not now. Now you're either misinformed or trolling. I would bet on the latter.

Show me some of this "new age" evidence that they aren't displaced northern Europeans then

[Cristiano viejo]

(Pirlo) according to sources is part Sinti gypsy and not even fully Italian.

Pirlo is not Gypsy. That´s a fake.

[AnonUser]

Dude it is very obvious...I lived in NY for long time.
Only minority (may be 15%) of Italians got blue-eyes and blonde hair..

However if you take only upper one third Italy, they would be more

The "Italians" in New York are not really Italians. And if they do happen to actually have completely "Italian" ancestry its usually Sicilian not Italian so that explains what you're seeing

[AnonUser]

Pirlo is not Gypsy. That´s a fake.

Theres a lot of places online that say he is. In this article it says "Andrea Pirlo, who is a Sinti gypsy"

http://everyonegroup.com/EveryOne/MainPage/Entries/2008/5/15_Racism_Alert._Football_fans_threaten_Gypsy_cham pions_Pirlo_Ibrahimovic_and_Mihajlovic.html

[GrebluBro]

Why don't they have mostly dark features like other other southern Europeans? Are they really northern Europeans who migrated to southern Europe?

Dude it seems you saw just one blonde blue eyed Italian woman and started generalizing about 120 million ethnic-Italians all over the world :lol:

you might get banned, your thumbs are too bad and you kept on denying most well-known facts about Italians => Trolling

[Svipdag]

You can exclude central Italians as well because they aren't real Italians according to you..

OOPS!! Rome is in central Italy, who cares since most don't have blue eyes blonde-red hair :lol:

Which is exactly why I included Roma in my list of cities I visited in Italy 59 years ago whose inhabitants did NOT, as a rule, have blond or red hair and/or blue eyes.

[Damião de Góis]

Show me some of this "new age" evidence that they aren't displaced northern Europeans then

There's a sub-forum called "Genetics". You are free to go there and look for information about italians where you can find things such as these:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JaGiUw4mQmg/TffHa_JB8CI/AAAAAAAAB70/K6O0Oi20jhQ/s1600/nihms132060f1.jpg

[AnonUser]

Dude it seems you saw just one blonde blue eyed Italian woman and started generalizing about 120 million ethnic-Italians all over the world :lol:

you might get banned, your thumbs are too bad and you kept on denying most well-known facts about Italians => Trolling

It seems like its the other way around for you

[AnonUser]

There's a sub-forum called "Genetics". You are free to go there and look for information about italians where you can find things such as these:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JaGiUw4mQmg/TffHa_JB8CI/AAAAAAAAB70/K6O0Oi20jhQ/s1600/nihms132060f1.jpg

Why is the closest circle to Italy Slovakia. How accurate can that be

[Damião de Góis]

Why is the closest circle to Italy Slovakia. How accurate can that be

Pretty accurate. The Slovakian sample was made of just one person (who obviously wasn't Slovakian).
It's a well known study:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7218/abs/nature07331.html

[AnonUser]

Pretty accurate. The Slovakian sample was made of just one person (who obviously wasn't Slovakian).
It's a well known study:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7218/abs/nature07331.html

If only one person was used to represent Slovakia then that shows has accurate it is

[Smeagol]

Italians are mostly brown haired, and brown eyed, with a significant percentage of blue/green eyes, and blonde/light brown hair in the north.

[Damião de Góis]

If only one person was used to represent Slovakia then that shows has accurate it is

Given his clustering position, it was probably a Jew who identified himself as Slovakian. But genetics won't lie as you can see.
The italian sample on the other hand is pretty numerous, and they are all very southern.

[Smeagol]

Given his clustering position, it was probably a Jew who identified himself as Slovakian. But genetics won't lie as you can see.
The italian sample on the other hand is pretty numerous, and they are all very southern.

North Italians are closest to Iberians, and south French.

[AnonUser]

Given his clustering position, it was probably a Jew who identified himself as Slovakian. But genetics won't lie as you can see.
The italian sample on the other hand is pretty numerous, and they are all very southern.

How do we know that a lot of the Italians used weren't also really something else or maybe even mixed but just "identified as Italian"

[Damião de Góis]

How do we know that a lot of the Italians used weren't also really something else or maybe even mixed but just "identified as Italian"

Because all other genetic plots look exactly like that.

[Carlito's Way]

many italians have blue eyes and blonde hair, ive witness this myself
many of my relatives with light eyes have blue eyes and where do you think it came from?? from the Italian side of course

[MINARDOWICZ]

Its not a dumb question I was just wondering why they aren't like other southern Europeans

Quit trolling. LOL!

[AnonUser]

many italians have blue eyes and blonde hair, ive witness this myself
many of my relatives with light eyes have blue eyes and where do you think it came from?? from the Italian side of course

Its true, most of them do and that's where you got it from so its no surprise. I don't know why everyone is calling me a troll about this though when even most of the Italians or people with Italian descent on here have blue eyes and blond/red hair. It cant be a coincidence

[AnonUser]

Because all other genetic plots look exactly like that.

What other ones are there out there?

[Damião de Góis]

What other ones are there out there?

Here you go, you can look here:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?20-Genetics

[MINARDOWICZ]

He was banned... bet his IP matched the last 2 trolls.

[Rambo07]

Why don't they have mostly dark features like other other southern Europeans? Are they really northern Europeans who migrated to southern Europe?

And the "Dumb Fuck of the Year" award goes to.....................:crazy:

[Übermensch]

Italians are around 3% blond/light brown haired and 0,5% red haired, they also are around 10% blue-gray eyed (not necessary pure) and 20% hazel-green eyed, the rest is brown eyed.
They are indeed the lightest Southern Europeans, red hair for istance hardly exist in Greece (0,1%?) and blonde/Light brown hair is about 1%, in Spain/Portougal red hair is around 0,3% and blond-light brown hair 1,5%.

[Smeagol]

red hair for istance hardly exist in Greece (0,1%?) and blonde/Light brown hair is about 1%,

According to Coon, the Greeks have 10% light brown, or blonde hair.

[Übermensch]

According to Coon, the Greeks have 10% light brown, or blonde hair.

I think the percentage is way lower, Coon was including also medium brown as ''lighter shades of brown'' according to him Greeks are 80% dark brown haired and 10% black haired, 10% medium brown to blonde.

[Smeagol]

I think the percentage is way lower, Coon was including also medium brown as ''lighter shades of brown'' according to him Greeks are 80% dark brown haired and 10% black haired, 10% medium brown to blonde.

Oh I see. Yes, that sounds accurate. They are darker than Italians as a whole, but maybe on the same level as South Italians.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I think the percentage is way lower, Coon was including also medium brown as ''lighter shades of brown'' according to him Greeks are 80% dark brown haired and 10% black haired, 10% medium brown to blonde.

Probably gotten lower since then. A lot of coons stuff has what today are laughable ratios for blondeness and light eyes. Obviously these features are being eroded away.

[Dynamo]

I think the percentage is way lower, Coon was including also medium brown as ''lighter shades of brown'' according to him Greeks are 80% dark brown haired and 10% black haired, 10% medium brown to blonde.

wait does dark brown hair look black but under light looks brown? And black hair is when it doesn't give any brownish colors under light?

[Dynamo]

The Italian does have lot of blondes and light eyes, however if you check you'll find most are from the northernmost regions of Italy.still quite a few blondes tho, Riccardo montolivo is half German

[MelinusMargos]

That's probably because national sporting teams are made up of the athletic elite.

I've never seen a short, fat, swarthy italian considered athletic elite.

Short, fat, swarthy italians are USA stereotypes. I'm 180 and I weight 65kg and I'm in the average.

[jmls]

OP is probably trying to evoke Iberian trolls.

[Dombra]

Southern Italy = Southern Tyrol? :p

[Cristiano viejo]

Percentage of North Italians with blonde hair is ~4´5624343%
Percentage of North Italians with light eyes is ~7´0763535%

Percentage of South Italians with blonde hair is ~1´6527373%
Percentage of South Italians with light eyes is ~2´210033%

Redheads in Italy are really unusual, ~0,222222222%

[Krampus]

Lol how he is thumbing everyone down who disagrees.

[Damião de Góis]

Italians are around 3% blond/light brown haired and 0,5% red haired, they also are around 10% blue-gray eyed (not necessary pure) and 20% hazel-green eyed, the rest is brown eyed.
They are indeed the lightest Southern Europeans, red hair for istance hardly exist in Greece (0,1%?) and blonde/Light brown hair is about 1%, in Spain/Portougal red hair is around 0,3% and blond-light brown hair 1,5%.

You don't have mirrors at home do you?

[Nurzat]

lol.. italians are mediterranean, which is in terms of pigmentation defined by olive skin, dark brown eyes and dark brown and black hair. in terms of pigmentation alone, italians are on par with the other mediterranean peoples - portuguese, spaniards, greeks, turks, lebanese, jewish

[Cristiano viejo]

lol.. italians are mediterranean, which is in terms of pigmentation defined by olive skin, dark brown eyes and dark brown and black hair. in terms of pigmentation alone, italians are on par with the other mediterranean peoples - portuguese, spaniards, greeks, turks, lebanese, jewish
LOL

And olive skin it´s not the common at least in Spain. Of course, there are many people with olive skin, but they are a minority.

[Kalimtari]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/SolarGIS-Solar-map-Europe-en.png

[Kalimtari]

http://www.solarfeedintariff.net/images/europe.png

[Kalimtari]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XBeiVZ5b29Q/T8tjZWlqYUI/AAAAAAAAh2Y/ddXrKnmaajs/s1600/Sunshine.png

[Nurzat]

now i remember i saw the final of i-dont-know-what-important-football-competition, Spain vs Italy. spain won like 4 goals to 1 or something like that. anyway, they were filming the fans a lot and the spanish fans were a very dark yet happy bunch - spain was playing great, while the italian fans were quite light thinking italy is mediterranean and gets a lot of sun. so italians might be lightest southern europeans, i would really not be surprised to find it s true. italians do have a lot of alpine influence to their mediterranean and some dinaric too

[Dál Riata]

I'm talking about most Italians in general except Sicilians and Sardinians cause they aren't real Italians and that's why they look so different from them

:rotfl2

Sits back, gets popcorn...

[Sikeliot]

Italians exist on a genetic cline.

If you begin in Piedmont and end in Sicily, you find that as you progressively move south toward Sicily, in an uninterrupted genetic cline the population will become less Western European (Atlantic, Celtic, etc.) and more Neolithic/West Asian/Caucasus/Levantine.

All Italians have the same genetic components, it's just the proportion that changes. Northern Italians are probably about 25% West Asian genetically, while Sicilians are around 50%. That percentage gradually increases as you move south.

[armenianbodyhair]

because they dont...

[♥ Lily ♥]

Ahem! They're mostly dark haired and eyed from what I can see from large crowds of them.

Southern Europeans usually mock, ridicule and scorn people with blond hair and blue eyes on northern European threads and they often say that brown eyes and hair is 'superior', etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud06pTHmY6E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLeIOAqCWjs

[Hungarian_master]

Idiot.

The Italians are usually dark haired, brown eyed people.

[Gooding]

South Tyrol isn't ethnically Italian?

[Übermensch]

I'd say:

in South Italy:

auburn hair: 0,4%
red hair: 0,3%
dark blond to light blond hair: 1%
light brown to medium brown hair: 2,4%
medium to dark brown hair: 15%
dark brown and black hair: 80%

in Northen Italy:

auburn hair: 0,5%
red hair: 0,5%
dark blond to light blond hair: 5%
light to medium brown hair: 15%
medium to dark brown hair: 40%
dark brown and black hair: 39%

in Central Italy:

auburn hair: 0,4%
red hair: 0,4
dark blond to light brown hair: 2,5%
light to medium brown hair: 8%
dark to medium brown hair: 25%
dark brown and black hair: 63,7%

Sardinia:

auburn hair: 0,2%
red hair: 0,1%
dark blond to light blond hair: 0,5%
light to medium brown hair: 1%
dark to medium brown hair: 5%
black and dark brown hair: 93,2%

eye colour:

South Italy:

brown to black: 45%
hazel to green hazel: 30%
gray,light green: 20%
blue: 5%

Central Italy:

brown to black: 35%
hazel to green hazel: 40%
gray,light green: 20%
blue: 10%

Northen Italy:

brown to black: 25%
hazel to green hazel: 35%
grey, light green: 25%
blue: 15%

Sardinia:

brown to black: 60%
hazel to green hazel: 30%
grey,light green: 8%
blue: 2%

Except in Sardinia light and mixed eyes prevails in Italy but dark and dark mixed hair is more common than mixed light or fair.

[Deneb]

Even in northern Italy blond haired and blue eyed are a minority.

[SupaThug]

Southern Europeans usually mock, ridicule and scorn people with blond hair and blue eyes on northern European threads

Too much internet!Nobody does in reality.

[SupaThug]

Even in northern Italy blond haired and blue eyed are a minority.

A large minority.

[XvThomas_LysergicV]

Since when? I thought the most common eye and hair color combination in Italians was dark hair and brown eyes.

[SupaThug]

South Tyrol isn't ethnically Italian?

No

[Gooding]

No

Certainly not. I posed the question as a sarcastic retort to the OP. I should think that blonde and blue eyed Italians ( not Austrians such as live in South Tyrol) would be relatively rare. I'm not saying that such don't exist, but they'd be fairly unusual.

[SupaThug]

Certainly not. I posed the question as a sarcastic retort to the OP. I should think that blonde and blue eyed Italians ( not Austrians such as live in South Tyrol) would be relatively rare. I'm not saying that such don't exist, but they'd be fairly unusual.

They are not unsual either.Blonde people are not rare in Northern Italy,my great grandmother is 100% venetian and she is blonde and blue eyed.Italy is probably the blondest southern european country.

[Gooding]

They are not unsual either.Blonde people are not rare in Northern Italy,my great grandmother is 100% venetian and she is blonde and blue eyed.Italy is probably the blondest southern european country.

I stand corrected. :yo:

[Journeyman26]

Blue eyes are moderately common all over Italy.. but blonde hair not so much. Most blonde Italians would be considered as having light brown hair in northern countries. True bright blonde hair/eyebrows in adult Italians is rare. My father, uncle, grandfather have blue eyes, and my aunt and grandmother have green eyes but all of them have naturally black/darkbrown hair.

[Sikeliot]

This is stupid. Outside of northern Italy, Italians are very dark haired/eyed as a group and on par with the rest of southern Europe.

[Mens-Sarda]

I'd say:

in South Italy:

auburn hair: 0,4%
red hair: 0,3%
dark blond to light blond hair: 1%
light brown to medium brown hair: 2,4%
medium to dark brown hair: 15%
dark brown and black hair: 80%

in Northen Italy:

auburn hair: 0,5%
red hair: 0,5%
dark blond to light blond hair: 5%
light to medium brown hair: 15%
medium to dark brown hair: 40%
dark brown and black hair: 39%

in Central Italy:

auburn hair: 0,4%
red hair: 0,4
dark blond to light brown hair: 2,5%
light to medium brown hair: 8%
dark to medium brown hair: 25%
dark brown and black hair: 63,7%

Sardinia:

auburn hair: 0,2%
red hair: 0,1%
dark blond to light blond hair: 0,5%
light to medium brown hair: 1%
dark to medium brown hair: 5%
black and dark brown hair: 93,2%

eye colour:

South Italy:

brown to black: 45%
hazel to green hazel: 30%
gray,light green: 20%
blue: 5%

Central Italy:

brown to black: 35%
hazel to green hazel: 40%
gray,light green: 20%
blue: 10%

Northen Italy:

brown to black: 25%
hazel to green hazel: 35%
grey, light green: 25%
blue: 15%

Sardinia:

brown to black: 60%
hazel to green hazel: 30%
grey,light green: 8%
blue: 2%

Except in Sardinia light and mixed eyes prevails in Italy but dark and dark mixed hair is more common than mixed light or fair.

Where come from the percentages about Sardinia, did you just roll a dice or just invented them?

93% black or dark brown hair it's ridiculous, when I see on tv people from south Italy all of them seem to be a lot darker than us, Sicilians or Calabrians look really dark to me

[Yonni]

I don't know where you got that false impression, Italians are often dark at least as Spaniards.

[Mens-Sarda]

I speak about Sardinians, Italians are another matter, they look different to my eyes, I live in Sardinia, I see Sardinians every day, I don't know if the poster above has ever been to Sardinia or if he just visited the beaches full of overtanned people, perhaps someone should try to visit real villages inside the island where can be seen real Sardinians which don't spend the whole day at the beach

[Petalpusher]

North Italian have an unexpected high frequency of clear eyes, it's more the result of a sexual selection over time, im sure i ve seen a paper about this but can't find it now. You just have to look at the Squadra Azzura in the past 10 years, mostly N.Italian with a lot of very clear blue eyes. Going down South it's more as expected and in line with what the genetic predicts.

[alnortedelsur]

Italians are mostly brown haired, and brown eyed, with a significant percentage of blue/green eyes, and blonde/light brown hair in the north.

Not different from the case of Iberians, with all that description applying to all Iberia.

[alnortedelsur]

many italians have blue eyes and blonde hair, ive witness this myself
many of my relatives with light eyes have blue eyes and where do you think it came from?? from the Italian side of course

lol, that's no uncommon among Spaniard/Portuguese, and their direct descendants either.

[alnortedelsur]

They are not unsual either.Blonde people are not rare in Northern Italy,my great grandmother is 100% venetian and she is blonde and blue eyed.Italy is probably the blondest southern european country.

Only norhtern Italy, but Italy, as a whole (including center and south) is NOT lighter than Spain and Portugal.

[Sikeliot]

Italy as a whole is not blonder than other southern European countries once you take into account the center and south.

[alnortedelsur]

Italy as a whole is not blonder than other southern European countries once you take into account the center and south.

very true.

[SupaThug]

Only norhtern Italy, but Italy, as a whole (including center and south) is NOT lighter than Spain and Portugal.

I have the impression that Italy as whole is bit blonder than Iberia,not by a large margin though.

[alnortedelsur]

I have the impression that Italy as whole is bit blonder than Iberia,not by a large margin though.

I would say that only the north is a bit blonder, and not by a large margin, the center would be about the same, and the south a bit less blonde. And if we balanced out the north and the south, Italy is not lighter nor blonder than Iberia, on average.

[SupaThug]

I would say that only the north is a bit blonder, and not by a large margin, the center would be about the same, and the south a bit less blonde. And if we balanced out the north and the south, Italy is not lighter nor blonder than Iberia, on average.

I disagree.I don't think Italy is lighter than Iberia,I think it is blonder.It's just like Germany and the British Isles,Germany is blonder,but not lighter.I have a simillar opinion regrading Italy and Iberia.

[Robocop]

Why don't they have mostly dark features like other other southern Europeans? Are they really northern Europeans who migrated to southern Europe?

Because vast majority of Italians are not southern Europeans by origin.

One has to know that original Latins (Romans) were more related to Celts (by genetics and everything) than to Mediterranean people. Some goes for other (majority) Italic ethnics of that period; Sabinians, Samnites, Umbrians etc...

Also one has to know that today Central and Northern Italians are in fact a mix between those original Romans, Etruscans and Langobards (Germanic tribe), this goes especially for Northern Italy, while Central Italy is predominant original Latin/Roman.

One of the most dominant phenotypes in Italy (North and Central) are Noric, Dinarid, Keltid, Atlanto-Med, Atlantids, even Nordid people...

Southern Italy is another story, as it was in Roman times, and today.

Southern Italians are in majority of cases Gracil Meds, now and then you can find Atlanto-Med somewhere in southern Italy, also there is a Dinarization in Southern Italy, but most of southern Italians are Gracil Meds (which are White people as well ofcourse).

There is some amount of Norics in southern Italy as relic of Norman conquest.

[alnortedelsur]

I disagree.I don't think Italy is lighter than Iberia,I think it is blonder.It's just like Germany and the British Isles,Germany is blonder,but not lighter.I have a simillar opinion regrading Italy and Iberia.

You probably could be right, but Iberia has a bit more red haired people than Italy, in the same way that although Germany is blonder than British Islands, British Islands has more red haired people than Germany.

It can be said that in this analogy, there is a parallelism in which Iberia would be on the place of British Islands (but in southern Europe) and Italy would be on the place of Germany (but in southern Europe), of course, keeping the distances with them.

[SupaThug]

You probably could be right, but Iberia has a bit more red haired people than Italy, in the same way that although Germany is blonder than British Islands, British Islands has more red haired people than Germany.

It can be said that in this analogy, there is a parallelism in which Iberia would be on the place of British Islands (but in southern Europe) and Italy would be on the place of Germany (but in southern Europe), of course, keeping the distances with them.

Fully agree,especially the redhead part,same goes for auburn hair and freckles that seem to be more common in Iberia too.

[Ouistreham]

Italy, as a whole (including center and south) is NOT lighter than Spain and Portugal.

Very, very debatable.

Spain:
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averagespaniardmale.jpg?w=490https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averagespaniardfemale.jpg?w=490

Italy:
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/italian.jpg?w=490https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averageitalianfemale.jpg?w=490

As a side note you may observe a specific sexual dimorphism:
• the average Spaniard is not only very dark, he looks like being marginally non-European, while the Spanish female has facial traits that are much closer to the Euro average,
• on the other hand, the Italian male is more average European than his Iberian counterpart, while the Italic female has strangely Eastern features (like Polish-meets-Greek)

[SupaThug]

Very, very debatable.

Spain:
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averagespaniardmale.jpg?w=490https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averagespaniardfemale.jpg?w=490

Italy:
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/italian.jpg?w=490https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averageitalianfemale.jpg?w=490

As a side note you may observe a specific sexual dimorphism:
• the average Spaniard is not only very dark, he looks like being marginally non-European, while the Spanish female has facial traits that are much closer to the Euro average,
• on the other hand, the Italian male is more average European than his Iberian counterpart, while the Italic female has strangely Eastern features (like Polish-meets-Greek)

The italians shown in this pic look more like the average central-northern italian,not like average italians.I can't see how can someone think italians are lighter than Iberians.

[Rudel]

The italians shown in this pic look more like the average central-northern italian,not like average italians.I can't see how can someone think italians are lighter than Iberians.
As far as I can tell by going to Spain and Italy, Italians are lighter.

[SupaThug]

As far as I can tell by going to Spain and Italy, Italians are lighter.

Wich parts of Italy have you visited?As I said before I believe italians are blonder,but overall,I don't think italians are lighter than Iberians.

[Mortimer]

italians are europeans some have dark hair some blonde some have brown eyes some blue, why is it important to be northeuropean the OP is banned and is probably the guy who comes back with various accounts always saying how light italians are, i wonder if he is a real italian or some(foreign) troll

[Bagot]

italians are europeans some have dark hair some blonde some have brown eyes some blue, why is it important to be northeuropean the OP is banned and is probably the guy who comes back with various accounts always saying how light italians are, i wonder if he is a real italian or some(foreign) troll

I'd say someone who trolls Italian, not a real Italian.

[Scands]

I've seen hundreds of Italians in real life and I could confirm that most of them are blonde or red haired with blue eyes and very pale skin and looked very northern European. Dark hair and dark eyes are actually pretty rare among Italians and when they rarely happen they could usually be attributed to foreign influences. Even the people of the surrounding countries of Italy like France and Croatia are noticeably darker and less white

Most Italians don't look southern European at all in any way and the truth is its a completely wrong myth that they're southern European. It's only by geography.

[Scands]

Real southern Europeans come from Spain, Portugal and Southern France and in the Balkans from Croatia southwards and they look completely different and much less white and darker pigmented than typical Italians

[glicine max]

I can't believe this thread has reached 11 pages, given the obviusly trollish question and the people on here who keep arguing whether italians are germans or not :crazy:

[Scands]

I can't believe this thread has reached 11 pages, given the obviusly trollish question and the people on here who keep arguing whether italians are germans or not :crazy:

Theres no argument about whether Italians are exactly the same as Germans the answer is obvious. Yeah they are

[glicine max]

Can't the admins ban him by his IP? even if he uses some proxy they should be able to

[Scands]

Can't the admins ban him by his IP? even if he uses some proxy they should be able to

To be honest I'm surprised you don't agree with what I'm saying. Usually Italians agree with me

[glicine max]

To be honest I'm surprised you don't agree with what I'm saying. Usually Italians agree with me

but obviusly I agree :thumb001:

[Shqipez]

Terence Hill isn't most Italians, bro.

[Scands]

Terence Hill isn't most Italians, bro.

What makes a swarthy Ottoman Albanian like you think he can make a comment about completely unrelated people like Italians?

[Shqipez]

What makes a swarthy Ottoman Albanian like you think he can make a comment about completely unrelated people like Italians?

Your mother must of dropped you on your head when you were a baby. She should of swallowed you instead.

[Scands]

Your mother must of dropped you on your head when you were a baby. She should of swallowed you instead.

You must have suffocated in your moms burqa when you were a baby

[Shqipez]

Doctors told me I suffocated in my moms burqa when I was a baby

You did? poor you.

[Scands]

I know that the Italians at Italic roots reading this now agree with me too and this thread

Italians look exactly the same and are indistinguishable from Germans and other northern Europeans the vast majority of the time

[Cristiano viejo]

I know that the Italians at Italic roots reading this now agree with me too and this thread

Italians look exactly the same and are indistinguishable from Germans and other northern Europeans the vast majority of the time
hehehe

[Rudel]

Wich parts of Italy have you visited?As I said before I believe italians are blonder,but overall,I don't think italians are lighter than Iberians.
I've been to the areas of Burgos, Madrid and Barcelona on the Spanish side, and in Rome, Turin and further in the Alpine valleys on the Italian side.
Relatively North of both countries, although I can't say I've seen all of both nations.

[EL_BARBARO]

I think North Spaniards are lighter than South French people.

Edit: As far as I know.

[Permafrost]

Furlans have some Slovene blood, that's why they're usually fair (also tall, and have the highest IQs).

For teh rest, Germanic raeps.

[Robocop]

I was traveling a lot of times trough Central and North Italy, especially to Tuscany (my favorite region in Italy). The only thing I can say what I saw is that majority of people were either Atlanto-Meds, or Norics, Keltid, or Alpine-Atlanto-Med, or Dinarized Alpid, or Dinarid+Atlanto-Med etc...

I was never in Spain but I will go visit Spain for sure some day.

So, I cannot make a comparison about Italy and Spain from my own experience because I was in Italy but not in Spain, but I can really say this: Italians are really (in Central and Northern Italy) predominant people with Western and Central European look.

I remember when I was first at Italy when I was 15, I always thought Italians are like pure Mediterraneas (Americans always show them like that in most of cases in their movies, I guess because of Mafia from south Italy), than I came to Ancona (first time back than in Italy) - Central Italy, and I saw people who were as I already said what.

Later till this day I visited rest of Central and North Italy, and I can really really say that they are light Europeans with all that phenotypes I already mentioned.

I was never in Southern Italy.

So my point is this, if anyone have any doubts about what I have said about central and north Italy, go and see for yourself, those people are not less light by skin (and phenotypes) than French, I really mean this, so... if you don't trust me, go and see and don't believe in some stereotypes made by American movies.

[Cristiano viejo]

Very, very debatable.

Spain:
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averagespaniardmale.jpg?w=490https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averagespaniardfemale.jpg?w=490

Italy:
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/italian.jpg?w=490https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averageitalianfemale.jpg?w=490

As a side note you may observe a specific sexual dimorphism:
• the average Spaniard is not only very dark, he looks like being marginally non-European, while the Spanish female has facial traits that are much closer to the Euro average,
• on the other hand, the Italian male is more average European than his Iberian counterpart, while the Italic female has strangely Eastern features (like Polish-meets-Greek)

Retarded post worthy from a retarded like you... what example, a picture :lol:
In any case, even in your retarded example the Iberian male is lighter than the Italian one, are you blind or just you are so of subnormal? :laugh:

[SupaThug]

I've been to the areas of Burgos, Madrid and Barcelona on the Spanish side, and in Rome, Turin and further in the Alpine valleys on the Italian side.
Relatively North of both countries, although I can't say I've seen all of both nations.

Many people won't consider my experience as worthy enough to debate this subject but the place where I live in recieved plenty of italian,portuguese and spanish immigrants and as I said my impression is that italians are blonder overall(wich may strike as ''lighter'' for many) but not lighter than iberians overall.The regions of Italy that you seen are more Central-Northern if you go south people will get much darker,while in Iberia the North-South differences are almost unexistent.

[Deneb]

I have been to Italy a lot of times, particularly in Northern Italy, and there are more blonde people there than in Northern Spain, although even in NE Italy blondes are a minority.

[Bagot]

while in Iberia the North-South differences are almost unexistent.

I don't think that it's so true.

[SupaThug]

I don't think that it's so true.

It is ture according to most Iberians and according to what I've seen.

[glicine max]

Furlans have some Slovene blood, that's why they're usually fair (also tall, and have the highest IQs).

For teh rest, Germanic raeps.

actually there are 15000 or so sloveni living near Trieste that's all

[Bagot]

It is ture according to most Iberians and according to what I've seen.

"Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority"

[glicine max]

I was traveling a lot of times trough Central and North Italy, especially to Tuscany (my favorite region in Italy). The only thing I can say what I saw is that majority of people were either Atlanto-Meds, or Norics, Keltid, or Alpine-Atlanto-Med, or Dinarized Alpid, or Dinarid+Atlanto-Med etc...

I was never in Spain but I will go visit Spain for sure some day.

So, I cannot make a comparison about Italy and Spain from my own experience because I was in Italy but not in Spain, but I can really say this: Italians are really (in Central and Northern Italy) predominant people with Western and Central European look.

I remember when I was first at Italy when I was 15, I always thought Italians are like pure Mediterraneas (Americans always show them like that in most of cases in their movies, I guess because of Mafia from south Italy), than I came to Ancona (first time back than in Italy) - Central Italy, and I saw people who were as I already said what.

Later till this day I visited rest of Central and North Italy, and I can really really say that they are light Europeans with all that phenotypes I already mentioned.

I was never in Southern Italy.

So my point is this, if anyone have any doubts about what I have said about central and north Italy, go and see for yourself, those people are not less light by skin (and phenotypes) than French, I really mean this, so... if you don't trust me, go and see and don't believe in some stereotypes made by American movies.

central european's look in central italy? I must live in a totally different country :lol00002:

[Bagot]

central european's look in central italy? I must live in a totally different country :lol00002:

Or more likely you're a southern Italian with the Kurdistan flag (?).

[glicine max]

Or more likely you're a southern Italian with the Kurdistan flag (?).
kurdistan flag is cool..
let's talk about you,a swiss guy who talk about italins (especially the northen ones) all thet time, given that usually the swiss can't stand italians even the ticinesi

[Bagot]

kurdistan flag is cool..
let's talk about you,a swiss guy who talk about italins (especially the northen ones) all thet time, given that usually the swiss can't stand italians even the ticinesi

To be honest Ticinesi can't stand the frontalieri and the south Italians, not the north Italians.

[glicine max]

To be honest Ticinesi can't stand the frontalieri and the south Italians, not the north Italians.

the majority of frontalieri are lombardi, they state italians steal your works just like ringhtwingers do here for africans

[Bagot]

the majority of frontalieri are lombardi, they state italians steal your works just like ringhtwingers do here for africans

In the past they were Lombards (but in the past also many Ticinesi were forced to migrate to Italy), now frontalieri are people who reside in Lombardy and Piedmont with all kind of Italian ancestry and not only.

[Scands]

I was traveling a lot of times trough Central and North Italy, especially to Tuscany (my favorite region in Italy). The only thing I can say what I saw is that majority of people were either Atlanto-Meds, or Norics, Keltid, or Alpine-Atlanto-Med, or Dinarized Alpid, or Dinarid+Atlanto-Med etc...

I was never in Spain but I will go visit Spain for sure some day.

So, I cannot make a comparison about Italy and Spain from my own experience because I was in Italy but not in Spain, but I can really say this: Italians are really (in Central and Northern Italy) predominant people with Western and Central European look.

I remember when I was first at Italy when I was 15, I always thought Italians are like pure Mediterraneas (Americans always show them like that in most of cases in their movies, I guess because of Mafia from south Italy), than I came to Ancona (first time back than in Italy) - Central Italy, and I saw people who were as I already said what.

Later till this day I visited rest of Central and North Italy, and I can really really say that they are light Europeans with all that phenotypes I already mentioned.

I was never in Southern Italy.

So my point is this, if anyone have any doubts about what I have said about central and north Italy, go and see for yourself, those people are not less light by skin (and phenotypes) than French, I really mean this, so... if you don't trust me, go and see and don't believe in some stereotypes made by American movies.

If you ever go to Spain you'll notice that they look much darker and more completely Mediterranean and southern European than Italians. Italians look like regular white people and no different from northern Europeans or anglos or whatever people consider the typical white person while Spaniards don't

[French fries]

As far as I can tell by going to Spain and Italy, Italians are lighter.

I agree.

[Visage pâle]

Italian are lighter eyed than spanish.
30% of Italians have light eyes, (40% in some regions of the north ! ), In Spain it's 20/25% of light eyes( more than 30% in the lightest regions ).
Spanish are lighter skinned than italian.
For hair color i don't know.

[French fries]

North Italian have an unexpected high frequency of clear eyes, it's more the result of a sexual selection over time, im sure i ve seen a paper about this but can't find it now. You just have to look at the Squadra Azzura in the past 10 years, mostly N.Italian with a lot of very clear blue eyes. Going down South it's more as expected and in line with what the genetic predicts.

In the Italian team in the last 6-7 years, only Buffon and Toni had light eyes and were Northern Italians. Marchisio is half Sicilian.

[Petalpusher]

In the Italian team in the last 6-7 years, only Buffon and Toni had light eyes and were Northern Italians. Marchisio is half Sicilian.

You can add Totti, De Rossi, Cannavaro, Leggrotaglie, Montolivo, Maggio, Abate, only on top of my head and recent.

Eye color doesn't mean much but there s clearly something going on in North and central Italy related to eye colors, considering how relatively Southern they are genetically. If you have ever been to North Italy at least, it's easy to confirm the impression.

[Valmont]

I have yet to meet a blonde haired italian man. Blue and green eyes are more common

[Cristiano viejo]

I don't think that it's so true.

Southern Iberians descend directly from Northern Iberians. If there is any difference is due to climate. There the temperatures are terrible.

[Cristiano viejo]

Toni light eyes? Luca Toni? lol

[French fries]

You can add Totti, De Rossi, Cannavaro, Leggrotaglie, Montolivo, Maggio, Abate, only on top of my head and recent.

They are all from Central and Southern Italy. As I've said before the only Northern Italians with light eyes are Buffon and Toni.


Eye color doesn't mean much but there s clearly something going on in North and central Italy related to eye colors, considering how relatively Southern they are genetically. If you have ever been to North Italy at least, it's easy to confirm the impression.

Light eyes are frequent everywhere in Italy, beside Sardinia, according to old school anthropologists. Some southern regions like Molise have measured frequency of pure light eyes above 30%.

DNA =/= phenotype anyway. Southern Italians would still be swarthier than Northern ones, even if they were 100% Mesolitich European, simply because they live in a much hotter climate.

[EL_BARBARO]

Most Italians have blue eyes and blond/red hair and elephants fly.

https://miboina.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/elefante-volando.jpg

[French fries]

Can someone explain me why a thread about Italians is infested by envious Iberians and South Americans? Seriously, some people here have a very big inferiority complex...

[Valmont]

Can someone explain me why a thread about Italians is infested by envious Iberians and South Americans? Seriously, some people here have a very big inferiority complex...

Because Italians, Spaniards and Greeks were considered "dark europeans". Iberians want the proof that they aren't the darkest in western Europe and South-Americans believe that because Iberians and Italians speak a Latin derived language that they are Latinos.

[EL_BARBARO]

Can someone explain me why a thread about Italians is infested by envious Iberians and South Americans? Seriously, some people here have a very big inferiority complex...


Yes, of course, and you eat pasta everyday.

[French fries]

Because Italians, Spaniards and Greeks were considered "dark europeans". Iberians want the proof that they aren't the darkest in western Europe and South-Americans believe that because Iberians and Italians speak a Latin derived language that they are Latinos.

Never seen so far Greeks, Slavs or Italians infesting Iberian threads. Only Iberians have this strong inferiority complex towards Italians. LOL.

[Damião de Góis]

Can someone explain me why a thread about Italians is infested by envious Iberians and South Americans? Seriously, some people here have a very big inferiority complex...

Must be because people started to talk about them. It's extremely difficult to talk about italians without mentioning iberians at some point.

[AverageKorhonen]

Blue-eyed blond hair Italians are leftover of ancient Roman slave catamites.

[SupaThug]

Can someone explain me why a thread about Italians is infested by envious Iberians and South Americans? Seriously, some people here have a very big inferiority complex...

Envious of what?Actually I have both,Iberian and Italian ancestry so the topic is related to me...explain yourself please.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

French fries smells like a stinky Italic rats member.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

He must be the claim to be "French" from Italic rats city, called 'IberoCeltic'.

[alnortedelsur]

He must be the claim to be "French" from:no noItalic rats city, called 'IberoCeltic'.

What you mean?? Italic RETARDS?? That dumb people are completely unable to get the fact that Italians do NOT look more European than Iberians, and are NOT lighter than Iberians. NO, NO, NO, and NOPE :no:

They are dumb as fuck, and I already gave up with them, since long ago.

BTW, some greetings to them from here :wave:

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

What you mean?? Italic RETARDS?? That dumb people are completely unable to get the fact that Italians do NOT look more European than Iberians, and are NOT lighter than Iberians. NO, NO, NO, and NOPE :no:

They are dumb as fuck, and I already gave up with them, since long ago.

BTW, some greetings to them from here :wave:
Yeah, that's right. those dumb fucks. I agree and nope. it's a truth they have to live with. but only in their wild dreams, lol.
anyway, same here. :wave:

[Robocop]

I will "convert" this discussion for a second on genetic side if nowone has anything against that?

It's interesting to see Y-DNA (paternal) haplogroup map of Europe considering R1b HG:

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png

We people in Archeology use more and more ArcheoGenetic department (Y-DNA) to monitor Human migrations of the past to help us in understanding even better the Human past from period of Paleolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic etc...

R1b HG (with all of It's subclades) definitely shaped the "face" of Western European people in last thousands and thousands of years.

I don't like to name any Y-DNA hg with some ethnics name, but we agree today that majory factor of distribution of this HG troughout Europe were Celts & Latins (better say Indoeuropean Italics), let's see the map of Celts 400 BC:

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/europe_celtic_400bc.gif

I will continue with this later, dont have time now.

[Cristiano viejo]

Never seen so far Greeks, Slavs or Italians infesting Iberian threads. Only Iberians have this strong inferiority complex towards Italians. LOL.

That is as true as you are French :laugh:

[Rudel]

Many people won't consider my experience as worthy enough to debate this subject but the place where I live in recieved plenty of italian,portuguese and spanish immigrants and as I said my impression is that italians are blonder overall(wich may strike as ''lighter'' for many) but not lighter than iberians overall.The regions of Italy that you seen are more Central-Northern if you go south people will get much darker,while in Iberia the North-South differences are almost unexistent.
I agree with you that Spain is far more homogeneous than Italy, and the darker spectrum of Italians is most likely darker than the darker Spaniards. This being said average out I still think Italians are a shade lighter. But it's a pretty asinine debate at this point.

Italians are certainly more Modern Core Euro than the Spanish, who are more robust and archaic.


Because Italians, Spaniards and Greeks were considered "dark europeans". Iberians want the proof that they aren't the darkest in western Europe and South-Americans believe that because Iberians and Italians speak a Latin derived language that they are Latinos.
That colouration complex is retarded. And by having it they participate into enforcing the idea that lighter is better, which is moronic.

[Deneb]

Because Italians, Spaniards and Greeks were considered "dark europeans". Iberians want the proof that they aren't the darkest in western Europe and South-Americans believe that because Iberians and Italians speak a Latin derived language that they are Latinos.

Don't forget Portugueses. They are firmly convinced that are the lightest southern europeans. Although even in Spain, Portugueses are judged pretty dark.

[Damião de Góis]

Don't forget Portugueses. They are firmly convinced that are the lightest southern europeans. Although even in Spain, Portugueses are judged pretty dark.

So, i've asked if you could speak galician and italian. And your reply is about how dark i am? Seems that my questions have made you unconfortable.
Nevertheless, and judging by your posting content, my guess is that you are a very mongrelized individual (of whichever nationality)... because those are usually the ones obsessed with pigmentation.

[Robocop]

Interesting map of Italo-Celtic Y-DNA:

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Celtic_Europe.gif

Anyway...

I think one cannot just like that compare Iberians and Italians (It's like someone compares Austrians to Dutch ppl, just wanna make analogy), while it is a matter of predominant Western European population in general, they are different, from different ethnic background of History, which ofcourse applies on phenotypes as well.

During the Roman Empire; Italy was the center of the large Empire (till Constantine the Great - 4th century), and we must have in mind how much of other Europeans arrived to Italy only durin Roman Empire (we will not count Republic for now), and after Roman Empire fell, new arrival came to Italy; Ostrogoths, Langobards etc...

While Ostrogoths didnt had that much of an impact on Italian population, Langobards had great one.

They shaped etnomology of entire Northern Italy, for which we could say today considering population that is; a hybrid between Germanics & Italo-Celts.

Iberians on the other hand are totally different case, they had different historical events, they were never center of Roman Empire, but perifery, so relatively they kept somewhat same population (Ibero-Celts) during Roman Empire and after, with exception of Visigoths who had/have an impact (a relatively great one) on Iberian population till this day.

Muslims who conquered most of Iberia (central and southern) in 8th century were in fact a convert muslims of Algeria and similar, they were never Arabs, after Reconquista they were expelled, but the point is; they were not Arabs in the first place.

Iberians always had somewhat different look than Italians, I really dont know why ppl here are fighting about that, I agree with Rudel about that point.

Pigmentation is nothing, phenotypes and autosomal DNA are everything, ofcourse that Iberians will have somewhat more tan skin, jesus christ look at where they are in Europe. But so what? If you would bring an average Atlantid from UK to live in Andalusia, would you look at him as a ATLANTID person the same way you look at Spaniard Atlantids? Ofcourse not (most of you), because he would have Anglo-Saxon surname, and that boys and girls is; A STEREOTYPE.

Iberians (pure one Iberians) are old population of Iberic peninsula, with their own european/white appearence, which is like a window to distant past of Western Europe even before arrival of Celts, that's how I always looked at Iberians, those true and real Iberians.

[Sikeliot]

In general SW Europe is a bit darker than SE Europe, but the differences between Southern Europeans in their complexion is overstated.

[Oddone]

Interesting map of Italo-Celtic Y-DNA:

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Celtic_Europe.gif

Anyway...

I think one cannot just like that compare Iberians and Italians (It's like someone compares Austrians to Dutch ppl, just wanna make analogy), while it is a matter of predominant Western European population in general, they are different, from different ethnic background of History, which ofcourse applies on phenotypes as well.

During the Roman Empire; Italy was the center of the large Empire (till Constantine the Great - 4th century), and we must have in mind how much of other Europeans arrived to Italy only durin Roman Empire (we will not count Republic for now), and after Roman Empire fell, new arrival came to Italy; Ostrogoths, Langobards etc...

While Ostrogoths didnt had that much of an impact on Italian population, Langobards had great one.

They shaped etnomology of entire Northern Italy, for which we could say today considering population that is; a hybrid between Germanics & Italo-Celts.

Iberians on the other hand are totally different case, they had different historical events, they were never center of Roman Empire, but perifery, so relatively they kept somewhat same population (Ibero-Celts) during Roman Empire and after, with exception of Visigoths who had/have an impact (a relatively great one) on Iberian population till this day.

Muslims who conquered most of Iberia (central and southern) in 8th century were in fact a convert muslims of Algeria and similar, they were never Arabs, after Reconquista they were expelled, but the point is; they were not Arabs in the first place.

Iberians always had somewhat different look than Italians, I really dont know why ppl here are fighting about that, I agree with Rudel about that point.

Pigmentation is nothing, phenotypes and autosomal DNA are everything, ofcourse that Iberians will have somewhat more more tan skin, jesus christ look at where they are in Europe. But so what? I you would bring an average Atlantid from UK to live in Andalusia, would you look the same on him as Spaniard Atlantids? Ofcourse not (most of you), because he would have Anglo-Saxon surname, and that boys and girls is; A STEREOTYPE.

Iberians (pure one Iberians) are old population of Iberic peninsula, with their own european/white appearence, which is like a window to distant past of Western Europe even before arrival of Celts, that's how I always looked at Iberians, those true and real Iberians.

Probably this map is more appropriate as Italo-Celtic

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-S28.gif

[Robocop]

Probably this map is more appropriate as Italo-Celtic

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-S28.gif

Well it is more appropriate for that specific R1b (S28) subclade which you have shown, but the previous map which I posted describes spreading of "Celto-Italics" roots/subclades of R1b where ever they went to the West (not only R1b-S28 subclade).

So ofcourse that in Iberia emerged a different subclade, in the end, in Iberia emerged a whole "new ethnic" or better say; "hybrid" called Celto-Iberians (considering ethnics) because of Celtic arrival there. :)

[MagnusAurelius]

Interesting map of Italo-Celtic Y-DNA:

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Celtic_Europe.gif

Anyway...

I think one cannot just like that compare Iberians and Italians (It's like someone compares Austrians to Dutch ppl, just wanna make analogy), while it is a matter of predominant Western European population in general, they are different, from different ethnic background of History, which ofcourse applies on phenotypes as well.

During the Roman Empire; Italy was the center of the large Empire (till Constantine the Great - 4th century), and we must have in mind how much of other Europeans arrived to Italy only durin Roman Empire (we will not count Republic for now), and after Roman Empire fell, new arrival came to Italy; Ostrogoths, Langobards etc...

While Ostrogoths didnt had that much of an impact on Italian population, Langobards had great one.

They shaped etnomology of entire Northern Italy, for which we could say today considering population that is; a hybrid between Germanics & Italo-Celts.

Iberians on the other hand are totally different case, they had different historical events, they were never center of Roman Empire, but perifery, so relatively they kept somewhat same population (Ibero-Celts) during Roman Empire and after, with exception of Visigoths who had/have an impact (a relatively great one) on Iberian population till this day.

Muslims who conquered most of Iberia (central and southern) in 8th century were in fact a convert muslims of Algeria and similar, they were never Arabs, after Reconquista they were expelled, but the point is; they were not Arabs in the first place.

Iberians always had somewhat different look than Italians, I really dont know why ppl here are fighting about that, I agree with Rudel about that point.

Pigmentation is nothing, phenotypes and autosomal DNA are everything, ofcourse that Iberians will have somewhat more tan skin, jesus christ look at where they are in Europe. But so what? If you would bring an average Atlantid from UK to live in Andalusia, would you look at him as a ATLANTID person the same way you look at Spaniard Atlantids? Ofcourse not (most of you), because he would have Anglo-Saxon surname, and that boys and girls is; A STEREOTYPE.

Iberians (pure one Iberians) are old population of Iberic peninsula, with their own european/white appearence, which is like a window to distant past of Western Europe even before arrival of Celts, that's how I always looked at Iberians, those true and real Iberians.

That is totally false, Northern Italians are not a Hybrid people between Germanics and Italo-Celts.

http://archhades.blogspot.se/2011/06/northern-italians-are-biologically.html Northern Italians are biologically SOUTHERN European

I have seen North Italian DNA results and out of 7 individuals the average Germanic ancestry was only 14-17%. That is not enough to be considered a Hybrid population, the biggest Hybrid population of people mixed with Germanics are the English, they are 60% Celtic and 40% Germanic and genetics proves that.

[Robocop]

That is totally false, Northern Italians are not a Hybrid people between Germanics and Italo-Celts.

http://archhades.blogspot.se/2011/06/northern-italians-are-biologically.html Northern Italians are biologically SOUTHERN European

I have seen North Italian DNA results and out of 7 individuals the average Germanic ancestry was only 14-17%. That is not enough to be considered a Hybrid population, the biggest Hybrid population of people mixed with Germanics are the English, they are 60% Celtic and 40% Germanic and genetics proves that.

I wouldn't agree, if you look at phenotypes, you will see that Noric phenotype stretches itself from Northern Italy, trough Austria (Norics got the name from Austria; Roman province NORICUM), trough Slovenia, trough Northern Croatia.

Now, Im not saying that Noric is for sure a relic phenotype (hybrid of Nordids and Dinarids) from Germanics in N.Italy, but you cannot exlude that.

And I cannot agree with you that Northern Italians belonges to Southern Europeans, no way man.

What do you consider as Southern European considering genetics (in this case Y-DNA)?

P.S. I have nothing against Southern Europeans, Im just saying that I dont agree about Northern Italians with you. :)

[Journeyman26]

That is totally false, Northern Italians are not a Hybrid people between Germanics and Italo-Celts.

http://archhades.blogspot.se/2011/06/northern-italians-are-biologically.html Northern Italians are biologically SOUTHERN European

I have seen North Italian DNA results and out of 7 individuals the average Germanic ancestry was only 14-17%. That is not enough to be considered a Hybrid population, the biggest Hybrid population of people mixed with Germanics are the English, they are 60% Celtic and 40% Germanic and genetics proves that.

The German/Gallic admixture in Northern Italy is old enough that the DNA from said groups is considered within the normal range for Italians, and as such it shows up as "Italian" on DNA tests. Even such if the average Northern Italian has 14-17% "German" ancestry, they would absolutely be considered a hybrid population.. that is a huge proportion of their DNA. I would think that on average it would be faaaar lower ~3-8%.

[Alessio]

The German/Gallic admixture in Northern Italy is old enough that the DNA from said groups is considered within the normal range for Italians, and as such it shows up as "Italian" on DNA tests. Even such if the average Northern Italian has 14-17% "German" ancestry, they would absolutely be considered a hybrid population.. that is a huge proportion of their DNA. I would think that on average it would be faaaar lower ~3-8%.

Depends on what you consider and where you set the border for being indigenous 'northern Italian'..

This is an example of a south Tyrolean:

http://s20.postimg.org/jo2rlld6x/South_Tyrol.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/jo2rlld6x/)

For the record: his top matches came from Austria.

I'd expect the same for people from eg Courmayeur in Valle d'Aosta.

[Robocop]

The German/Gallic admixture in Northern Italy is old enough that the DNA from said groups is considered within the normal range for Italians, and as such it shows up as "Italian" on DNA tests. Even such if the average Northern Italian has 14-17% "German" ancestry, they would absolutely be considered a hybrid population.. that is a huge proportion of their DNA. I would think that on average it would be faaaar lower ~3-8%.

Agree.

[Journeyman26]

Depends on what you consider and where you set the border for being 'northern Italian'..

This is an example of a south Tyrolean:

http://s20.postimg.org/jo2rlld6x/South_Tyrol.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/jo2rlld6x/)

For the record: his top matches came from Austria.

I doubt this fella even considers himself ethnically Italian.. South Tyrol was only annexed by Italy in 1919. He has more British DNA than Italian for christs sake hah.

[Alessio]

I doubt this fella even considers himself ethnically Italian.. South Tyrol was only annexed by Italy in 1919. He has more British DNA than Italian for christs sake hah.

Yep he considers himself Tyrolean over Italian, but the same counts for a lot of southerners or even Venetians.

IBD sharing between north, central and south Italy is low anyway, so where do you place the border and what do you consider 'real' Italian? It's just a political expression anyway but with time and enough indoctrination through education it becomes a fact.

The British&Irish here doesn't mean actual British/Irish ancestry but just that part of his DNA is similar to the reference population used for British/Irish.

[Journeyman26]

Yep he considers himself Tyrolean over Italian, but the same counts for a lot of southerners or even Venetians.

IBD sharing between north, central and south Italy is low anyway, so where do you place the border and what do you consider 'real' Italian?

Haha 'real' Italian huh? Wars have been started for less. But I suppose when I think of Northern Italy I generally think of: Aosta Valley, Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Emilia-Romagna, Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Trentino Alto-Adige. But mostly Lombardy, Liguria, Piedmont, Emilia-Romagna and Veneto. Central Italy is tough to place because the only group that seems to plot uniquely are Tuscans. But I like to think of Lazio, Marche, and Umbria and geographically central. Everything else is Southern.

In my humble opinion the most uniquely Italian are Central Italians. When talking about Northerners everyone talks about Gallic/German admixture, and when talking about Southerners everyone talks about Greek and other admixture. But with Tuscans, they are just Tuscan :) . There are Central Italians that plot within Northern and Southern groups, but rarely outside Italy.

[Alessio]

Haha 'real' Italian huh? Wars have been started for less. But I suppose when I think of Northern Italy I generally think of: Aosta Valley, Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Emilia-Romagna, Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Trentino Alto-Adige. But mostly Lombardy, Liguria, Piedmont, Emilia-Romagna and Veneto. Central Italy is tough to place because the only group that seems to plot uniquely are Tuscans. But I like to think of Lazio, Marche, and Umbria and geographically central. Everything else is Southern.

In my humble opinion the most uniquely Italian are Central Italians. When talking about Northerners everyone talks about Gallic/German admixture, and when talking about Southerners everyone talks about Greek and other admixture. But with Tuscans, they are just Tuscan :) . There are Central Italians that plot within Northern and Southern groups, but rarely outside Italy.

Yep, I think this is the best way to classify Italians geographically and it makes it somewhat easier to put the three groups into 3 main clusters (thus ignoring the outliers).

''In my humble opinion the most uniquely Italian are Central Italians''

Don't flatter yourself..

[Journeyman26]

Yep, I think this is the best way to classify Italians geographically and it makes it somewhat easier to put the three groups into 3 main clusters (thus ignoring the outliers).

''In my humble opinion the most uniquely Italian are Central Italians''

Don't flatter yourself..

I said my humble opinion didn't I? :rolleyes:

[Oddone]

Haha 'real' Italian huh? Wars have been started for less. But I suppose when I think of Northern Italy I generally think of: Aosta Valley, Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Emilia-Romagna, Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Trentino Alto-Adige. But mostly Lombardy, Liguria, Piedmont, Emilia-Romagna and Veneto. Central Italy is tough to place because the only group that seems to plot uniquely are Tuscans. But I like to think of Lazio, Marche, and Umbria and geographically central. Everything else is Southern. .


Yep he considers himself Tyrolean over Italian, but the same counts for a lot of southerners or even Venetians.

IBD sharing between north, central and south Italy is low anyway, so where do you place the border and what do you consider 'real' Italian? It's just a political expression anyway but with time and enough indoctrination through education it becomes a fact.

The British&Irish here doesn't mean actual British/Irish ancestry but just that part of his DNA is similar to the reference population used for British/Irish.

As an Italian with ancesty across the country, I want to point out that politically and culturally there is no doubt that the birth of modern Italy is due to Northern and Central Italians much more than to Southern Italians. That's a fact. There are even still today few Southern Italians that consider themselves "conquered" by Northern Italians. But "Real Italian" means nothing.

Real Italian is an issue that can passionate someone who is not really Italian. We are all real Italians but jealous and proud of all our differences with an heavy dose of parochialism but that never produces a strong dose of ethnocentrism unlike what happens elsewhere. But even if things will change, because the new generations of Italians are much more mixed than they were in the past their grandparents, everyone then ends up identifying with those who want to. I know Northern Italians with Southern Italian ancestry that they identify themselves with North Italy only, and on the other hand I know Southern Italians of Northern Italian origin that they feel themselves just Southern Italians. Even in a region like Tuscany, protagonist of the history of Italy at least twice (Etruscans/Romans and Renaissance) as said the French scholar Jacques Heurgon, there are both the school of thought: one Italianist and another one anti-Italianist.

Is the clash so dramatic? Not really. Few days ago I had dinner with a bit of friends. Most came from different parts of Italy. We ate Sicilian, Neapolitan, Genoese, Tuscan and Venetian seafood, and we drank white wines from South Tyrol, Tuscany, Sicily, and Friuli. If you are not really Italian, born and raised here, you won't ever understand this country. :)

[Journeyman26]

As an Italian with ancesty across the country, I want to point out that politically and culturally there is no doubt that the birth of modern Italy is due to Northern and Central Italians much more than to Southern Italians. That's a fact. There are even still today few Southern Italians that consider themselves "conquered" by Northern Italians. But "Real Italian" means nothing.

Real Italian is an issue that can passionate someone who is not really Italian. We are all real Italians but jealous and proud of all our differences with an heavy dose of parochialism but that never produces a strong dose of ethnocentrism unlike what happens elsewhere. But even if things will change, because the new generations of Italians are much more mixed than they were in the past their grandparents, everyone then ends up identifying with those who want to. I know Northern Italians with Southern Italian ancestry that they identify themselves with North Italy only, and on the other hand I know Southern Italians of Northern Italian origin that they feel themselves just Southern Italians. Even in a region like Tuscany, protagonist of the history of Italy at least twice (Etruscans/Romans and Renaissance) as said the French scholar Jacques Heurgon, there are both the school of thought: one Italianist and another one anti-Italianist.

Is the clash so dramatic? Not really. Few days ago I had dinner with a bit of friends. Most came from different parts of Italy. We ate Sicilian, Neapolitan, Genoese, Tuscan and Venetian seafood, and we drank white wines from South Tyrol, Tuscany, Sicily, and Friuli. If you are not really Italian, born and raised here, you won't ever understand this country. :)

Well said :)

[Annie999]

Stupid thread

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Depends on what you consider and where you set the border for being indigenous 'northern Italian'..

This is an example of a south Tyrolean:

http://s20.postimg.org/jo2rlld6x/South_Tyrol.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/jo2rlld6x/)

For the record: his top matches came from Austria.

I'd expect the same for people from eg Courmayeur in Valle d'Aosta.

They not really true ethnic Italians.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

I doubt this fella even considers himself ethnically Italian.. South Tyrol was only annexed by Italy in 1919. He has more British DNA than Italian for christs sake hah.

Agree. this is the truth.

Alessio, come on.

[alnortedelsur]

Stupid thread

And more stupid the Italic Retard user that opened it.

[Rolnik szuka zony]

At least first map in this thread:)
Blonde hair in Italy (but data are more than 100 years old)
http://i57.tinypic.com/2qiy4wn.jpg

[Übermensch]

I'm fully Italian and i've got hazel eyes and shitty brown hair, why?
I think that's a bullshit, most of italian people i know have dark brown/black hair and brown-hazel eyes, true red and blond hair are very rare.

[Übermensch]

Most of Italians even the light eyed ones look the same as Moroccans, Italians and Moroccans are indistinguible.
Every racist speak by italians who want to pass as nordic is stupid, in northen europe 95% of Italians are considered black.

[alnortedelsur]

Most of Italians even the light eyed ones look the same as Moroccans, Italians and Moroccans are indistinguible.
Every racist speak by italians who want to pass as nordic is stupid, in northen europe 95% of Italians are considered black.

Are you out of your mind?? I agree that most Italians don't look northern European, but saying that they look as Moroccans is very moronic.

They are much closer to any other European population (including Russians and Finish) than to Moroccans.

[Übermensch]

Are you out of your mind?? I agree that most Italians don't look northern European, but saying that they look as Moroccans is very moronic.

They are much closer to any other European population (including Russians and Finish) than to Moroccans.

You're wrong, most of Moroccans have olive skin,dark hair and eyes so do most of Italians, there is a tiny minority of Italians with light blonde hair, fair skin and very clear trasparent blue eyes but there are a minority, and light eyes are common in Morocco as well lighter skinned and haired moroccans aren't uncommon, so i'd say Italians are closer to Moroccans than any european population.

[alnortedelsur]

You're wrong, most of Moroccans have olive skin,dark hair and eyes so do most of Italians, there is a tiny minority of Italians with light blonde hair, fair skin and very clear trasparent blue eyes but there are a minority, and light eyes are common in Morocco as well lighter skinned and haired moroccans aren't uncommon, so i'd say Italians are closer to Moroccans than any european population.

The only phenotypic overlap between Italians and Moroccans could be with Moroccan Berbers with no negro or Arab admixture. Same for Iberians.

[Übermensch]

I think i will commit suicide because i don't look like an ideal italian.

[Robocop]

Haha 'real' Italian huh? Wars have been started for less. But I suppose when I think of Northern Italy I generally think of: Aosta Valley, Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Emilia-Romagna, Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Trentino Alto-Adige. But mostly Lombardy, Liguria, Piedmont, Emilia-Romagna and Veneto. Central Italy is tough to place because the only group that seems to plot uniquely are Tuscans. But I like to think of Lazio, Marche, and Umbria and geographically central. Everything else is Southern.



True, that's exactly Central Italy.

And you are right about what is Northern Italy.

[Bagot]

At least first map in this thread:)
Blonde hair in Italy (but data are more than 100 years old)
http://i57.tinypic.com/2qiy4wn.jpg

This map is good, I think. Data are more than 100 years old, true. But this makes the map more reliable, because 100 years ago wasn't already started the big mass migration from South Italy to North and Central Italy that has changed Italy.



Most of Italians even the light eyed ones look the same as Moroccans, Italians and Moroccans are indistinguible.
Every racist speak by italians who want to pass as nordic is stupid, in northen europe 95% of Italians are considered black.

I bet that you're a southern Italian. Anyway I think that you're just kidding.

[Mens-Sarda]

This map is good, I think. Data are more than 100 years old, true. But this makes the map more reliable, because 100 years ago wasn't already started the big mass migration from South Italy to North and Central Italy that has changed Italy.




I bet that you're a southern Italian. Anyway I think that you're just kidding.


a map based upon "studies" done in 1898, it's based on the observation of soldiers from the various regions, so only males, not females, half of the population, however, it's strange that Sardinians are always depicted as darker than Sicilians or Calabrians, to my eyes they are darker and with those strange hooked noses they look middle east style

Sardinians share similarities with Corsicans, and also with Basques, during the bronze age both Sardinia and Corsica were inhabited by the same people

[MagnusAurelius]

The German/Gallic admixture in Northern Italy is old enough that the DNA from said groups is considered within the normal range for Italians, and as such it shows up as "Italian" on DNA tests. Even such if the average Northern Italian has 14-17% "German" ancestry, they would absolutely be considered a hybrid population.. that is a huge proportion of their DNA. I would think that on average it would be faaaar lower ~3-8%.

Not it isn't a huge portion would be over 25%, North Italians are genetically closer to South Italians than they are to Germans or French.

[MagnusAurelius]

I wouldn't agree, if you look at phenotypes, you will see that Noric phenotype stretches itself from Northern Italy, trough Austria (Norics got the name from Austria; Roman province NORICUM), trough Slovenia, trough Northern Croatia.

Now, Im not saying that Noric is for sure a relic phenotype (hybrid of Nordids and Dinarids) from Germanics in N.Italy, but you cannot exlude that.

And I cannot agree with you that Northern Italians belonges to Southern Europeans, no way man.

What do you consider as Southern European considering genetics (in this case Y-DNA)?

P.S. I have nothing against Southern Europeans, Im just saying that I dont agree about Northern Italians with you. :)

Well genetics proves you wrong. Norics and pure Nordids are very rare in Italy, Norics only make up 4% of the population and Nordids only 1%. There are also far more non-Nordics in Germany/Austria than there is Nordics/Norics in Italy % wise.

North Italians are still genetically closest with South Italians.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6024/5980840461_ced57bf590_b.jpg

[Bagot]

however, it's strange that Sardinians are always depicted as darker than Sicilians or Calabrians, to my eyes they are darker and with those strange hooked noses they look middle east style

It doesn't sound strange to me. Anyway the map is about the hair colour not the noses.


Sardinians share similarities with Corsicans, and also with Basques, during the bronze age both Sardinia and Corsica were inhabited by the same people

Probably they were closer in the Bronze age but I don't think that Sardinians and Corsicans are the same. Since medieval period Corsicans are much more mixed with Tuscans, Ligurians, North Italians and recently French than Sardinians are.

[Mens-Sarda]

the Tuscan influence in Corsica was very strong in the northern part of the island, but almost non existent in the south, for this reason South Corsicans are more similar to Sardinians, while in general Sardinians are very different from Italians as we can see from these maps

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-syOTwCefLaY/Uh4rB3SrRmI/AAAAAAAAC3g/4q49lyEbxJw/s1600/Haplogroup_G2a.gif


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HcHlKXaFLwA/Uh2zRRjMhNI/AAAAAAAAC3M/RBmD3KkOFhQ/s1600/Immagine.png


http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I-borders.gif

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-H1-H3-map.png

[Bagot]

the Tuscan influence in Corsica was very strong in the northern part of the island, but almost non existent in the south, for this reason South Corsicans are more similar to Sardinians, while in general Sardinians are very different from Italians as we can see from these maps

In the most southern town of Corsica, Bonifacio, they speak a Ligurian language and Bonifacio was founded by Tuscans. So there is also a Ligurian/Tuscan susbstrate among South Corsicans.

[Mens-Sarda]

yes, but Bonifacio it's only 1 village in half of the island, this doesn't mean nothing, when Pisans and Genoese ruled over the island, they built two fortresses to control the island, one in the south (Bonifacio), the other in the north (Calvi) in these two villages is still spoken a Ligurian dialect, almost extinct in Calvi, and still alive in Bonifacio, inside the walls of these fortresses lived the colonial government, while outside of the walls the rest of the island was always inhabited by the native people

[uberaryan]

That is as true as you are French :laugh:

That is true as you are white. :D

[Septentrion]

Why don't they have mostly dark features like other other southern Europeans? Are they really northern Europeans who migrated to southern Europe?

Ha!ha!ha! Is this sarcasm or what? The majority of Italians don't have blond hair, nor blue eyes, nor a fair skin. Approximately 8.2% of Italians are blond-haired and 10.3% blue-eyed. Though it will vary by regions, northern Italian regions are above the 8.2% blond hair range for example, while places like Sardinia are way below. So to say that most Italians are blond or blue-eyed or both is a joke!!!!

[Desperado]

why did you bump this tho

[UkrainianGirl]

He wishes. Or is severely misguided.

[nightrider+]

Ha!ha!ha! Is this sarcasm or what? The majority of Italians don't have blond hair, nor blue eyes, nor a fair skin. Approximately 8.2% of Italians are blond-haired and 10.3% blue-eyed. Though it will vary by regions, northern Italian regions are above the 8.2% blond hair range for example, while places like Sardinia are way below. So to say that most Italians are blond or blue-eyed or both is a joke!!!!

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?205594-How-autistic-are-you

[Oddone]

why did you bump this tho


Because they are driving out of the garage all the accounts.

[Desperado]

Because they are driving out of the garage all the accounts.

yeah it's been crazy lately with the sockpuppets xD

[Oddone]

yeah it's been crazy lately with the sockpuppets xD

So much traffic. xD

[Antimage]

OP's a savage(in a good way). Unban him please

[Taiga Lake]

https://hugelolcdn.com/i/384068.jpg

[Porn Master]

fuck this thread but I was surprised seeing those thumb downs xD

[alnortedelsur]

Ha!ha!ha! Is this sarcasm or what? The majority of Italians don't have blond hair, nor blue eyes, nor a fair skin. Approximately 8.2% of Italians are blond-haired and 10.3% blue-eyed. Though it will vary by regions, northern Italian regions are above the 8.2% blond hair range for example, while places like Sardinia are way below. So to say that most Italians are blond or blue-eyed or both is a joke!!!!

You're a joke.

Saying that most Italians are blonde and blue eyed is a joke, but saying that most Italians are not fair skinned is a joke as well. Most southern Europeans (including Greeks, Italians and Iberians), ARE indeed fair skinned.

[Antimage]

I've seen hundreds of Italians in real life and I could confirm that most of them are blonde or red haired with blue eyes and very pale skin and looked very northern European. Dark hair and dark eyes are actually pretty rare among Italians and when they rarely happen they could usually be attributed to foreign influences. Even the people of the surrounding countries of Italy like France and Croatia are noticeably darker and less white

Most Italians don't look southern European at all in any way and the truth is its a completely wrong myth that they're southern European. It's only by geography.


Real southern Europeans come from Spain, Portugal and Southern France and in the Balkans from Croatia southwards and they look completely different and much less white and darker pigmented than typical Italians

https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0Iw13yBD52m4GDC/giphy.gif

[Mens-Sarda]

the return of the living dead

[Septentrion]

You're a joke.

Saying that most Italians are blonde and blue eyed is a joke, but saying that most Italians are not fair skinned is a joke as well. Most southern Europeans (including Greeks, Italians and Iberians), ARE indeed fair skinned.

You are the joke, because you don't understand what I meant by fair skin! If you were intelligent enough, you would have asked what I meant by "fair skin". I guess you're not! Right?

[alnortedelsur]

You are the joke, because you don't understand what I meant by fair skin! If you were intelligent enough, you would have asked what I meant by "fair skin". I guess you're not! Right?

With fair skin, you probably mean people like Conan Obrien or Leven Ramblin. But fair skin on my book is a Pan-European light skin tone, that is not too pale, but not swarthy either (That's why its considered FAIR: "in the middle"), like Amelia Warner, Mae Whitman, Kaylee Couco, Paul McCartney, Adolf Hitler, Sara Hyland, Alexandra Dadario, Odette Annable, Mila Kunis, Lilly Allen, Ornella Muti, Blanca Suarez, Ana de Armas, etc, etc, etc...

None of that people are "too light" for southern European standards, lol.

[Septentrion]

Average Italian man:
http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/italian.jpg

That's true. Pretty good. Most Italians have brown hair(usually dark), brown eyes(lighter hues though) and a medium light skin. Despite the fact that many Italians have black hair (31.1%), it's not the most common hair colour which is brown(60.1%). They are in general better-looking, I'd say than most Northern and Western Europeans. A large minority however has light eyes (blue/gray/green) around 31%, this is higher than in Spain or Portugal or Greece. Nevertheless Italians as a whole have lower frequency for blondism.
Portugal = 11%
Greece = 10.7%
Spain = 9.5%
Italy = 8.2%

[alnortedelsur]

That's true. Pretty good. Most Italians have brown hair(usually dark), brown eyes(lighter hues though) and a medium light skin. Despite the fact that many Italians have black hair (31.1%), it's not the most common hair colour which is brown(60.1%). They are in general better-looking, I'd say than most Northern and Western Europeans. A large minority however has light eyes (blue/gray/green) around 31%, this is higher than in Spain or Portugal or Greece. Nevertheless Italians as a whole have lower frequency for blondism.
Portugal = 11%
Greece = 10.7%
Spain = 9.5%
Italy = 8.2%

Light eyes (green/blue) in Spain/Portugal are at least 20% (if not more), if I am not wrong. And most Iberians are also fair brunettes with brown hair, just like Italians.

[Cristiano viejo]

Light eyes (green/blue) in Spain/Portugal are at least 20% (if not more), if I am not wrong. And most Iberians are also fair brunettes with brown hair, just like Italians.

Between 20 and 30%, for sure.

[Septentrion]

With fair skin, you probably mean people like Conan Obrien or Leven Ramblin. But fair skin on my book is a Pan-European light skin tone, that is not too pale, but not swarthy either (That's why its considered FAIR: "in the middle"), like Amelia Warner, Mae Whitman, Kaylee Couco, Paul McCartney, Adolf Hitler, Sara Hyland, Alexandra Dadario, Odette Annable, Mila Kunis, Lilly Allen, Ornella Muti, Blanca Suarez, Ana de Armas, etc, etc, etc...

None of that people are "too light" for southern European standards, lol.
You are just confused, let me clarify now what I meant by fair skin, I meant skin type I or II.
Type I = a pale white, which always burns doesn't tan but peels when exposed to intense UV.
Type II = white skin, which always burns but tan slightly after several exposure to intense UV.
These two respective skin types which constitute what is truly fair skin are not common among Italians who tan so well and become the envy of many Northern and Western Europeans who spend so much money on fake tanning methods. Italians are true Mediterraneans.

[Septentrion]

Between 20 and 30%, for sure.
Correct, nearly 25% for Spain (11.75% blue-eyed and 12.25% green/gray-eyed) and about 23% for Portugal and Greece approximately 14.6% (blue/green)

[Septentrion]

Light eyes (green/blue) in Spain/Portugal are at least 20% (if not more), if I am not wrong. And most Iberians are also fair brunettes with brown hair, just like Italians.

Italians as a whole have slightly higher ratios of darker hair than Iberians, but they are slightly lighter-eyed. Yes, I do know that the blue+green eyes combination in the Iberian population is over the 20% mark but in Italy it's over the 30% mark.

[alnortedelsur]

You are just confused, let me clarify now what I meant by fair skin, I meant skin type I or II.
Type I = a pale white, which always burns doesn't tan but peels when exposed to intense UV.
Type II = white skin, which always burns but tan slightly after several exposure to intense UV.
These two respective skin types which constitute what is truly fair skin are not common among Italians who tan so well and become the envy of many Northern and Western Europeans who spend so much money on fake tanning methods. Italians are true Mediterraneans.

I think most southern Europeans have skin type II or III. Most of that people that I mentioned are more or less in that rank.

[Cristiano viejo]

Correct, nearly 25% for Spain (11.75% blue-eyed and 12.25% green/gray-eyed) and about 23% for Portugal and Greece approximately 14.6% (blue/green)

Well, I dont know from where you get these percentages but they seem too exact :rolleyes:
I dont know if you understand me...

[Oddone]

Correct, nearly 25% for Spain (11.75% blue-eyed and 12.25% green/gray-eyed) and about 23% for Portugal and Greece approximately 14.6% (blue/green)

Now we even know what is your real ethnicity. ;)

Flemish. :D

[Cristiano viejo]

Now we even know what is your real ethnicity. ;)

Are you insinuating he is Spanish?? lol, he has attacked Spanish lot of times.
And in any case why such thoughts... just because he posted that 25% of Spanish have light eyes? :rolleyes:

[Oddone]

Are you insinuating he is Spanish?? lol, he has attacked Spanish lot of times.
And in any case why such thoughts... just because he posted that 25% of Spanish have light eyes? :rolleyes:

Why did you feel accused? :)

[Cristiano viejo]

Why did you feel accused? :)

Perhaps you think one has to be a genius to know what and to who you were referring :rolleyes:

[Septentrion]

Italians are around 3% blond/light brown haired and 0,5% red haired, they also are around 10% blue-gray eyed (not necessary pure) and 20% hazel-green eyed, the rest is brown eyed.
They are indeed the lightest Southern Europeans, red hair for istance hardly exist in Greece (0,1%?) and blonde/Light brown hair is about 1%, in Spain/Portougal red hair is around 0,3% and blond-light brown hair 1,5%.

I am afraid to say this, but the average for blond hair in Italy is 8.2%!!! 3% is too low for the whole of Italy. Though it is close enough for the region of Calabria (3.8%) and higher than that of Sardinia (1.7%), while the rest of the Italian Peninsula is above the 4% mark for blondism. Italy is most likely the darkest-haired country in Europe, though in some parts of northern Trentino, Friuli, Valle d'Aosta score nearly 20% for blond hair which is higher than anywhere in northern Spain (17%) or northern Portugal(15%). However no parts of Portugal are less blonde than Calabria, Sicily and Sardinia and southern Spain, none.

[Oddone]

Perhaps you think one has to be a genius to know what and to who you were referring :rolleyes:

Like we say in Italy "ho lanciato la palla nel mucchio per vedere chi la prendeva". Usted es bien rapido. :)

[crazyladybutterfly]

Like we say in Italy "ho lanciato la palla nel mucchio per vedere chi l'ha prendeva". Usted es bien rapido. :)

l'ha prendeva???? :P

[Septentrion]

I think most southern Europeans have skin type II or III. Most of that people that I mentioned are more or less in that rank.

What you think is opinion and you are entitled to your own opinion, that's alright. Nevertheless, facts are that, the most common skin types in Southern Europe are Type IV and III . In the Italian population approximately 10% of the population is type I/II while in Belgium for example it's over 30%, and in Ireland it's nearly 80%! North-West Europe anyway has the highest frequency for skin type I/II.

[Oddone]

l'ha prendeva???? :P

Questa l'hai presa tu. ;)

[Septentrion]

Now we even know what is your real ethnicity. ;)

Flemish. :D

SO, what?

[Cristiano viejo]

I am afraid to say this, but the average for blond hair in Italy is 8.2%!!! 3% is too low for the whole of Italy. Though it is close enough for the region of Calabria (3.8%) and higher than that of Sardinia (1.7%), while the rest of the Italian Peninsula is above the 4% mark for blondism. Italy is most likely the darkest-haired country in Europe, though in some parts of northern Trentino, Friuli, Valle d'Aosta score nearly 20% for blond hair which is higher than anywhere in northern Spain (17%) or northern Portugal(15%). However no parts of Portugal are less blonde than Calabria, Sicily and Sardinia and southern Spain, none.

I insist, your data seem too artificial.
And let me doubt that 20% of North Italians are blonde, or 17% of North Spaniards :picard1:

[Oddone]

SO, what?

http://pietmondriaan.com/pm/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Anonymous-Flemish-artist-Satirical-Diptych-early-16th-century_open.jpg

[crazyladybutterfly]

Questa l'hai presa tu. ;)

ritengo che certi errori grammaticali non siano dovuti nemmeno all'ignoranza ma al fatto che la mente tende a confondersi. si sa benissimo che si scrive "la" anziché "l'ha" in determinate situazioni ma nonostante ciò si commette l'errore grossolano, magari pensando di scrivere come andrebbe scritta la frase.

un pò come io scrivo certe parole al posto di altre pensando di scrivere queste ultime, per fortuna qualcosa di simile non mi succede parlando.

[Oddone]

ritengo che certi errori grammaticali non siano dovuti nemmeno all'ignoranza ma al fatto che la mente tende a confondersi. si sa benissimo che si scrive "la" anziché "l'ha" in determinate situazioni ma nonostante ciò si commette l'errore grossolano, magari pensando di scrivere come andrebbe scritta la frase.

un pò come io scrivo certe parole al posto di altre pensando di scrivere queste ultime, per fortuna qualcosa di simile non mi succede parlando.

Anche all'autosuggestione, ricontrolla meglio il mio post. ;)

Certi errori vengono fatti anche perché talvolta si inizia una frase in un modo e poi la si finisce in un altro. Quando si parla è un po' più diffiicile fare errori di ortografia, credo. O no?

[Cristiano viejo]

erferg

[revealman]

Why don't they have mostly dark features like other other southern Europeans? Are they really northern Europeans who migrated to southern Europe?
most of them do no have blonde hair and blue eyes

[alnortedelsur]

What you think is opinion and you are entitled to your own opinion, that's alright. Nevertheless, facts are that, the most common skin types in Southern Europe are Type IV and III . In the Italian population approximately 10% of the population is type I/II while in Belgium for example it's over 30%, and in Ireland it's nearly 80%! North-West Europe anyway has the highest frequency for skin type I/II.

Can you post some examples of people with these skin tones III and IV, that according to you are the most common skin types in southern Europe?? I'm just curious.

I insist that most Spaniards, Italians and Portuguese (and I am sure that's the case with Greeks, as well) are in the hair/skin tone range as those people that I mentioned on my previous post. At least that you pretend that Spain, Portugal and Italy are like Cyprus or Lebanon, lol.

[Cristiano viejo]

Can you post some examples of people with these skin tones III and IV, that according to you are the most common skin types in southern Europe?? I'm just curious.

In other thread I asked him several times what type is this Spanish and I still am waiting his answer

https://s3.amazonaws.com/piktochartv2-dev/v2/uploads/41b56f9c-d6e1-4792-9852-4f39d281bb58/0ba674cf92813b3e462d5a818dcaf1412a7613bf_original. jpg

[revealman]

italians never were blonde, greeks were not either..

sadly for nordicists, highest cultures in europe were built by brown eyed people in the south.

every school child knows tacticus distiungished the "weird" features of germans such as red hair, fair skin and fierce blue eyes..

[alnortedelsur]

In other thread I asked him several times what type is this Spanish and I still am waiting his answer

https://s3.amazonaws.com/piktochartv2-dev/v2/uploads/41b56f9c-d6e1-4792-9852-4f39d281bb58/0ba674cf92813b3e462d5a818dcaf1412a7613bf_original. jpg

Check the second paragraph of my post (I just edited it). I wonder what he is going to reply :rolleyes:

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't think the following examples are the most common in Iberia, Italy and Greece as such, but certainly they are commonplace enough and have skin tones III and IV:

Antonio Hernando Vera, Spanish MP
http://web.psoe.es/source-media//000000332000/000000332418.jpg

Giuseppe L'Abbate, Italian MP
http://www.lavipera.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Giuseppe-Labbate.jpg?c473a1

[alnortedelsur]

I don't think the following examples are the most common in Iberia, Italy and Greece as such, but certainly they are commonplace enough and have skin tones III and IV:

Antonio Hernando Vera, Spanish MP
http://web.psoe.es/source-media//000000332000/000000332418.jpg

Giuseppe L'Abbate, Italian MP
http://www.lavipera.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Giuseppe-Labbate.jpg?c473a1

Nobody denies that people like them are more common in Iberia, Italy and Greece than in the rest of Europe, but as you said, they are not the most common in Iberia, Italy and Greece. There are plenty of Iberians, Italians and Greeks who are lighter than them, and within the same skin/hair color range as the people that I previously mentioned.

[Tooting Carmen]

Nobody denies that people like them are more common in Iberia, Italy and Greece than in the rest of Europe, but as you said, they are the not the most common in Iberia, Italy and Greece. There are plenty of Iberians, Italians and Greeks who are lighter than them, and within the same skin/hair color range as the people that I previously mentioned.

People like the above examples are 15-30% of the native populations of Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece (depending on which regions of said countries we're talking about).

[alnortedelsur]

People like the above examples are 15-30% of the native populations of Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece (depending on which regions of said countries we're talking about).

A significant minority, but still minority, not majority, as some people claim.

[Cristiano viejo]

I don't think the following examples are the most common in UK as such, but certainly they are commonplace enough and have skin tones III and IV:

http://www.abc.es/media/internacional/2016/07/04/farage-kR7E--620x349@abc.jpg


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/21/26/11/212611dd3003a25deb2cd87238b7fa10.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't think the following examples are the most common in UK as such, but certainly they are commonplace enough and have skin tones III and IV:

http://www.abc.es/media/internacional/2016/07/04/farage-kR7E--620x349@abc.jpg


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/21/26/11/212611dd3003a25deb2cd87238b7fa10.jpg

They still don't look like the guys I posted, and they are in the 5-10% range for the UK.

[Cristiano viejo]

They still don't look like the guys I posted, and they are in the 5-10% range for the UK.

Same skin-colour, like you or not.