Lord of the Rings: European Ethnogenesis

[Unome]

I had a recent insight today about LOTR series.

Don't you agree that Sauron and the "watchful eye" represents the Abrahamic God of Christians, Jews, and Moslems? The ring-wraith dead human kings represent Roman Catholicism, popes, and archbishops who work directly with Sauron.

The halfling and dwarf races seem to represent native, Aboriginal Keltic tribes (NW Euros/Neanderthal). Elves obviously represent Scandinavians/Norwegians/Swedes/Lapps. Eastern Europeans represent the Rohirrim (horse riders, steppic warriors).

And two of the primary main heroes of LOTR series is Gandalf (wizard, European pagan, shaman) and Aragorn (representing monarchy).

What do you think?

[Damião de Góis]

Elves obviously represent Scandinavians/Norwegians/Swedes/Lapps.


I don't know the books too well, but is there a parallel between the elves and viking raids and plunders?

[Neanderthal]

Dwarf races are inspired by Ashkenazi Jews. Erebor is a metaphorical Israel.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Dwarf races are inspired by Ashkenazi Jews. Erebor is a metaphorical Israel.

Disagree with you mate, Gollum personality fits Ashkenazi Jews more....Anyways what's more precious than ring made out from gold. ;)

[Smaug]

No and no. Dwarves were inspired in Jews, including their language, that was based in Hebrew. Elves were inspired in Celts and Finnic peoples, more specifically the Welsh and Finnish, two peoples that Tolkien loved.

[Jägerstaffel]

Eastern Europeans represent the Rohirrim (horse riders, steppic warriors).

What do you think?

The Rohirrim were based on Anglo-Saxons. Just look at their names.

[Insuperable]

I don't know the books too well, but is there a parallel between the elves and viking raids and plunders?

You are so butthurt anytime someone mentions northern Europe. You must be the most butthurt member here when it comes to this stuff and always among the first ones to comment something.

[Damião de Góis]

You are so butthurt anytime someone mentions northern Europe. You must be the most butthurt member here when it comes to this stuff and always among the first ones to comment something.

???

[Dombra]

Not the general analysis but I approve every ones beliefs :) Great thing about LOTR is that you can see so many different takes on it, I don't think Tolkien would like if every one thought the same of his books

[morski]

i
I had a recent insight today about LOTR series.

Don't you agree that Sauron and the "watchful eye" represents the Abrahamic God of Christians, Jews, and Moslems? The ring-wraith dead human kings represent Roman Catholicism, popes, and archbishops who work directly with Sauron.

The halfling and dwarf races seem to represent native, Aboriginal Keltic tribes (NW Euros/Neanderthal). Elves obviously represent Scandinavians/Norwegians/Swedes/Lapps. Eastern Europeans represent the Rohirrim (horse riders, steppic warriors).

And two of the primary main heroes of LOTR series is Gandalf (wizard, European pagan, shaman) and Aragorn (representing monarchy).

What do you think?
To get a proper grasp on the Tolkien universe you need to read Ainulindale, Valaquenta and Quenta Silmarillion.

[Kalimtari]

http://media-cache-cd0.pinimg.com/236x/df/d8/f3/dfd8f3359cc571b0538e9691efb02966.jpg

:P

[Jackson]

I had a recent insight today about LOTR series.

Don't you agree that Sauron and the "watchful eye" represents the Abrahamic God of Christians, Jews, and Moslems? The ring-wraith dead human kings represent Roman Catholicism, popes, and archbishops who work directly with Sauron.

The halfling and dwarf races seem to represent native, Aboriginal Keltic tribes (NW Euros/Neanderthal). Elves obviously represent Scandinavians/Norwegians/Swedes/Lapps. Eastern Europeans represent the Rohirrim (horse riders, steppic warriors).

And two of the primary main heroes of LOTR series is Gandalf (wizard, European pagan, shaman) and Aragorn (representing monarchy).

What do you think?

Problem is Tolkien was quite a devout Roman Catholic so i doubt he'd cast Sauron as a Christian :P. Apparently central to some of his thinking was fear of what he called 'the machine', that is i guess the industrialization and mechanization of the human race both physically and mentally. And yeah the Dwarves are almost the equivalent of the Jews.

[Comte Arnau]

I don't know the books too well, but is there a parallel between the elves and viking raids and plunders?

We Southerners, Heirs of Ancient Rome, would be the Men of the once greatest kingdom there, Gondor (the Southern Kingdom), in between Rohan (Old Northerners) and Harad (Middle Easterners).

Do you remember the glory of Gondor, bro?
http://www.compleatseanbean.com/lotr-ttt-ext-dvd2.jpg

Alas, Osgiliath! What happened to your forum? Vini vidi vinci!
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121013112746/lotr/images/b/bf/Boromir_in_Osgiliath.png

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It's actually all about jislam.

[Windischer]

tolkien clearly stated that his works arent allegorical.
yes, khuzdul was inspired by semitic languages, quenya by finnish and sindarin by welsh.

[Hithaeglir]

I have those insights too sometimes about LOTR series.:P
I always thought that the Middle Earth could be the Mediterranean people (Medi terra).

[Ruggery]

Orcs of Mordor = African immigrants

[Ruggery]

Hobbits = Irishs

[Ruggery]

Dwarfs = Central Europeans and Balkans

[Jana]

Serbs are the Orcs :P

[Jana]

Now for real...Rohirrim defintiely represent Indo-European tribes. In times those books were written there was a Nordicist romantization of Scythians, Sarmatians and other legendary, in their minds, blond steppe horsemen.

Hobbits are insular Celts, obviously. Simple minded yet lovely people deeply ingrained with nature, song, and love for their lust green homeland.

Gondor could be either eastern Roman Empire/Byzantinum or Frankish Empire.

Orcs and their allies represent Ottomans, Mongols, Saracens/Arabs/Moors and all other invaders of Europe.

Dwarfs - more like Alpine Celts/south Germans than like the Jews. Stuck in their mountains, greedy, love to collect wealth but also fierce warriors. Reminds of Swiss/Bavarians/Austrians.

Elves - no idea. They don't really fit any European nation. Nordic countries would be closest though.

[Token]

No, Tolkien had absolutely no regard for allegories. The idea behind Tolkien's Legendarium was to show how Anglo-Saxon mythos would have looked like before the Normans wiped it out.

[PaleoEuropean]

OP obviously never read the books 1. Middle Earth is monotheistic, Eru Iluvatar is the creator and supreme being of Middle Earth, Melkor found this out when he sought to create original beings; he instead could only twist Eru Iluvatar's creations. 2. Turin Turambar is a Christ like figure who will be reincarnated and slay Melkor at Dagor Dagorath, the Battle of Battles or the Apocalypse essentially when Melkor (who like Satan was banished) will find a way to return and wage the final battle.

[Zeno]

Serbs are the Orcs :P


You and Stears would be orcs, corrupted by the ring(Western civilization) , along with the guy that spams cp here

[Jana]

You and Stears would be orcs, corrupted by the ring(Western civilization) , along with the guy that spams cp here

You sick fuck. If you mention me and Stears ever again in same sentence with that,I will make sure you are permanently banned.

[-Scar-]

You sick fuck. If you mention me and Stears ever again in same sentence with that,I will make sure you are permanently banned.

You never get along with Greeks. XD

[-Scar-]

............

[Ruggery]

OP obviously never read the books 1. Middle Earth is monotheistic, Eru Iluvatar is the creator and supreme being of Middle Earth, Melkor found this out when he sought to create original beings; he instead could only twist Eru Iluvatar's creations. 2. Turin Turambar is a Christ like figure who will be reincarnated and slay Melkor at Dagor Dagorath, the Battle of Battles or the Apocalypse essentially when Melkor (who like Satan was banished) will find a way to return and wage the final battle.

And Sauron is a Demon?

[PaleoEuropean]

And Sauron is a Demon?

Maybe the Anti-Christ and Melkor Satan as Sauron is a protege and originally a follower of Melkor

[TheMaestro]

Dwarf races are inspired by Ashkenazi Jews. Erebor is a metaphorical Israel.

lol

[Ford]

All I know is that I would be a Dùnedain chilling in the outskirts of The Shire

[TheMaestro]

Serbs are the Orcs :P

And Albanians and Bosniaks are Ents?

[TheMaestro]

All I know is that I would be a Dùnedain chilling in the outskirts of The Shire

We might end at the shire for weekends for some beers.

[Frowning Man]

The Lord of the Rings is very similar to the early Middle Ages, probably the 11th century.

Gondor resembles a Roman or Byzantine empire. Since the Gondorians are an ancient people with a very old statehood. Gondor is the Land of Stone. The climate here is warm, and the terrain is solid mountains. The most powerful and at the same time the most southeastern country. Heir to the great empire of Númenor, the army is strong and well trained. There are very strong heavy infantry and weak cavalry. Gondor reminds Byzantium, the heiress of the Roman Empire, waging a protracted war on land and sea with the Saracens and the Seljuk Turks who came in large numbers. Reminds of 11th century Byzantium
Although the appearance of the Gondorians, I do not know whether it resembles the ancient Romans or the Byzantines?



Another thing isRohan always reminded me of a mixture of semi-nomadic tribes of Alans (Sarmatians) and Goths Germanics. Since the Rohans, like the Alans, had a strong heavy cavalry. The Scythians had no heavy cavalry, although I might be wrong. also possible. The Rohans are excellent warriors, the best horsemen in the world, able to fight on foot if necessary. The militia on foot plays a supporting role. If we continue the "Byzantine" analogy, in the Balkans in the 11th century the laurels of the best horsemen belonged to the Bulgarians. Prior to that, the Magyars were noted here, who by the 11th century had quietly ceased to brawl, switched to a sedentary lifestyle and served the Byzantines as mercenary cavalry.


Gnomes are some kind of warlike mountain people. Nobody comes to mind from European nations. Maybe the Swiss? Gnomes also resemble the Scottish Highlanders and Welsh.

Mordor resembles the Ottoman Empire. Or maybe the USSR? Although it may be the empire of Tamerlane.

Harad is similar to the Arabs of the Umayyad dynasty or Achaemenid Iran.

The nomads of the east resemble the Huns, Kipchaks, Pechenegs, Avars.

In Tolkien, I see a simple tendency: all western ones are good, all eastern ones are bad).

[Blondie]

I live in Mordor lol

https://assets.rbl.ms/18578213/origin.jpg

[Ruggery]

Maybe the Anti-Christ and Melkor Satan as Sauron is a protege and originally a follower of Melkor

According to the lore of the Lord of the Rings, Sauron attempted to conquist Middle Earth 2 times.

[robszans]

The Lord of the Rings story is apparently very real and happened 6500 years ago. Recorded in ancient Scandinavian (which J. R. R. Tolkien studied during university).

Here (https://twitter.com/Robkearney1981/status/1294811792179433472) is the twitter thread outlining the details.

[PaleoEuropean]

Tolkein said that LOTR had no allegory or relation to the real world besides a few things like language. The series is a mish mash of his rejected stories and the Hobbit. He actually didn't plan them out very much which you think he would have. But the fact is 90% of the series was written on the fly and the stuff not from his previous stories was adlibbed ideas he just kinda made up and decided if he liked or not.

[PaleoEuropean]

According to the lore of the Lord of the Rings, Sauron attempted to conquist Middle Earth 2 times.

Well more than that if you count his attempts at manipulation.

[Ruggery]

Well more than that if you count his attempts at manipulation.

Yes, probably, but I'm talking about Sauron's direct attempts in person.

[Smeagol]

lol

Tolkien disliked direct allegories but he himself pointed out that the Dwarves resembled the Jews in some ways.

[PaleoEuropean]

Tolkien disliked direct allegories but he himself pointed out that the Dwarves resembled the Jews in some ways.

Yea he was interesting in his method he went the opposite of what most writers do. I think the absence of direct allegory makes his works so timeless. He created his own world without many trappings of the real one. I think LOTR would be hella boring if it was just a Norse rip off or WW2 allegory, it wouldn't have the depth it does, once people figured it out or read the books there wouldn't be much need to keep the series alive.

[Komintasavalta]

A few hobbits also have Spanish-sounding names, like Bandobras, Blanco, Chica, Porto, Posco, and Sancho (https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Hobbits). Maybe it's because of the Celtic connection. Apparently Blanco comes from an Old English word that means "white horse" though (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Blanco).

[Token]

Tolkien disliked direct allegories but he himself pointed out that the Dwarves resembled the Jews in some ways.

Khuzdul - the Dwarvish language - was primarily based on Hebrew, so there is clearly an association here.

[Davystayn]

Tolkien wrote several letters rejecting allegory for his work, invariably some influences spilled over of course

Near where he lived in Oxford is the Uffington White Horse, one of 14 scattered around the Salisbury Plain, a large open grassy region. The rock is chalk, a brilliant white colour. The horses were cut into the chalk, giving the white horse on green background. Each one is visible for miles.
https://planbphoto.com/giant-hill-figures-of-white-horses-in-england/

The Dunlendings can also be said to be analogous to the Welsh.

Saruman seems to be a random Industrialist who's thirst for power became too much, a perfectly natural thing for someone to do, as it demonstrated all over the place constantly. The strong environmental message in his work

He visited many places that inspired him, real life history and language gave him a base that he could use to provide depth and drive to the story. Nevertheless his work is its own thing