Ethnic English football players versus Ethnic French football players - compare and contrast

[Tooting Carmen]

Many people believe that English and French people look the same. Yet is that really so? Judge for yourselves by looking at their respective threads. Another reason to make this thread is that the two national football teams are the most multiracial in Europe, so this is dedicated to the native White players, who are declining in number rapidly.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?98808-Ethnic-English-football-players&highlight=ethnic+english+football+players
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/40381-Native-French-football-players

[GrebluBro]

Some French are visibly swarthy and got atypical features for Western Euro.
Dark features are high in south French.

Some half Kabyle half Euro look (if both parents not swarthy) more Euro than some full-French

[Smaug]

Not a big difference.

[le penalty]

Of course there are a difference, i have played english team when i was younger in football tournament, and you can be sure it's not difficult to distinguish

[Tooting Carmen]

Some French are visibly swarthy and got atypical features for Western Euro.
Dark features are high in south French.

Some half Kabyle half Euro look (if both parents not swarthy) more Euro than some full-French

Which of the French players I posted looks non or semi-Euro to you?

[Tooting Carmen]

Not a big difference.

Individually, the majority of English and French players could pass as the other, but on a group basis the French do look darker, even though they are far from being the darkest European ethnicity.

[GrebluBro]

Which of the French players I posted looks non or semi-Euro to you?

all look full Euro..
I said atypical for Western Euro type only.

[Smaug]

Individually, the majority of English and French players could pass as the other, but on a group basis the French do look darker, even though they are far from being the darkest European ethnicity.

Honestly I don't think the English are lighter at all, some individuals apart.

[Tooting Carmen]

Honestly I don't think the English are lighter at all, some individuals apart.

Really?

[YeshAtid]

The English are slightly lighter than the French. Are there any Southern French on the team?

[Tooting Carmen]

The English are slightly lighter than the French. Are there any Southern French on the team?

They come from all regions of France, and the correlation between region and phenotype is pretty fuzzy to say the least. There are light Southern French (e.g. Philippe Mexes), dark Southern French (e.g. Clement Grenier), light Northern French (e.g. Clement Chantome) and dark Northern French (e.g. Yoann Gourcuff).

[Tooting Carmen]

Btw, I am not saying that the English and French look dramatically different to one another, but saying there is no difference at all is also philistine.

[Sikeliot]

They look fairly similar but there is more Atlantid (and Atlanto-Med) type element in the French, than the English.

[Roy]

They look fairly similar but there is more Atlantid (and Atlanto-Med) type element in the French, than the English.

French people also more often look Alpine or SubNordid.

[Tooting Carmen]

French people also more often look Alpine or SubNordid.

True. I think most if not all phenotypes found in England can also be found in France, but the other way round not so much.

[Roy]

True. I think most if not all phenotypes found in England can also be found in France, but the other way round not so much.

Yes, but there are still many Brits that may seem more or less weird outside UK & Ireland among native populations of other countries. There are also more French people that could blend unnoticed in Poland than Brits.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yes, but there are still many Brits that may seem more or less weird outside UK & Ireland among native populations of other countries.

True. But what I mean is that the French have considerably more Mediterranean and Alpine influences than do the English, and some would stand out.

EDIT: Which of the English football players I posted could not pass as French, or anything else for that matter?

[Tooting Carmen]

There are also more French people that could blend unnoticed in Poland than Brits.

Really? Please explain.

[Ouistreham]

The English are slightly lighter than the French. Are there any Southern French on the team?

Interestingly, three of them have Catalan or Balearic names.
Lloris can be of French Catalan origin, but Goñalons and Escales are typically names from the Alicante/Valencia provinces that came to France over Morocco or Algeria (the majority of "Pieds-Noirs" were actually Spanish colonists who were given French citizenship when the French took control of North Africa).
http://www.geneanet.org/search/?name=Gonalons&ressource=arbre
http://www.geneanet.org/search/?name=Escales&ressource=arbre


"There are also more French people that could blend unnoticed in Poland than Brits."
Really? Please explain.
Because Brits have often sharp traits and long faces that contrast with the generally softer and rounded-off features that distinguish the Poles perhaps?

[Tooting Carmen]

Interestingly, three of them have Catalan or Balearic names.
Lloris can be of French Catalan origin, but Goñalons and Escales are typically names from the Alicante/Valencia provinces that came to France over Morocco or Algeria (the majority of "Pieds-Noirs" were actually Spanish colonists who were given French citizenship when the French took control of North Africa).

http://www.geneanet.org/search/?name=Gonalons&ressource=arbre
http://www.geneanet.org/search/?name=Escales&ressource=arbre

Well OK, but Catalan (and Basque) surnames are prevalent in SW France. Even taking the above into account, I'd still say the French, regardless of region or surname, have a notably larger Mediterranean streak than do the English, even though it is far from predominant either.

[Roy]

Really? Please explain.

It's general impression coming from all foreign features combined that could make them seem bizarre even. Brits often have strange looking big teeth / unusual occlusion.





Because Brits have often sharp traits and long faces that contrast with the generally softer and rounded-off features that distinguish the Poles perhaps?

Poles also may have long faces but not to the point of looking ''horsey'' usually. These are not softer features that make this big difference.

[Tooting Carmen]

It's general impression coming from all foreign features combined that could make them seem bizarre even. Brits often have strange looking big teeth / unusual occlusion.

Could you show us any examples of what you mean from the footballers posted?

[Tooting Carmen]

Another bump

[archangel]

English players look more northern precisely northwest european,while french ones look more south european imho

[Tooting Carmen]

While french ones look more south european imho

Well more of them do, of course, but I'm still not sure if an outright majority can be classified as such either.

[archangel]

Well more of them do, of course, but I'm still not sure if an outright majority can be classified as such either.

well i imagine french as more southern like compared to central and north europeans,i mean they speak a romance language instead a germanic one and have more cultural ties with southern european countries rather than with germany or north europea...arent they?

[Tooting Carmen]

well i imagine french as more southern like compared to central and north europeans,i mean they speak a romance language instead a germanic one and have more cultural ties with southern european countries rather han with germany or north europea...arent they?

Both geographically and ethnically, they are still far more Germanic-influenced than are Spaniards and Italians, especially in the North and East of France. But yes, they are predominantly a Romance/Latin people.

[archangel]

Both geographically and ethnically, they are still far more Germanic-influenced than are Spaniards and Italians, especially in the North and East of France. But yes, they are predominantly a Romance/Latin people.

well yeah northern france is more germanic influenced but overall they are closer to southern europea(culturally and physically)

[WOOHP]

Mexes is half Portuguese. Gonalons, Escales, Lloris, Eyserric don't seem to be ethnic French names.
Ruffier is of Basque descent.

Here are the male and female, ethnic French footballers from the national squad only. You seem to have picked out players just randomly.

http://i.imgur.com/a48l50G.jpg

And Grenier, but he looks suspicious. He would be more easily mistaken for a south Asian immigrant rather than a native English in England.

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/14/2014/324x324/1908192.jpg

[Insuperable]

Mexes is half Portuguese. Gonalons, Escales, Lloris, Eyserric don't seem to be ethnic French names.
Ruffier is of Basque descent.

Here are the male and female, ethnic French footballers from the national squad only. You seem to have picked out players just randomly.

http://i.imgur.com/a48l50G.jpg

And Grenier, but he looks suspicious. He would be more easily mistaken for a south Asian immigrant rather than a native English in England.

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/14/2014/324x324/1908192.jpg

French are obviously northern population

[Tooting Carmen]

Mexes is half Portuguese. Source?

Gonalons, Escales, Lloris, Eyserric don't seem to be ethnic French names. Catalan and Basque names are prevalent in SW France, and this has nothing to do with recent migration.

Ruffier is of Basque descent. See above.


You seem to have picked out players just randomly.

Not so. They are a mixture of players listed in Wikipedia on the one hand, and those who appear not only in the main national team but also the youth teams of France, according to the French Football Federation, on the other. If I were to stick to only the main national team then the number of players would be tiny.

[Tooting Carmen]

Btw, Yohan Cabaye is part-Vietnamese, according to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yohan_Cabaye#Personal_life

[Damião de Góis]

Mexes is half Portuguese


I seriously doubt that, otherwise it would be a known fact here. We know of several partly portuguese players like Robert Pires or Kevin Gameiro, but i have never seen any mention of Phillippe Mexes' portuguese ancestry on our media. And believe me, if he was, it would be news here.

[WOOHP]

Source?
Catalan and Basque names are prevalent in SW France, and this has nothing to do with recent migration.
See above.



Not so. They are a mixture of players listed in Wikipedia on the one hand, and those who appear not only in the main national team but also the youth teams of France, according to the French Football Federation, on the other. If I were to stick to only the main national team then the number of players would be tiny.

Mexes: http://www.annuaire-celebrite.com/celebrite/13081/mexes/philippe_mexes.php

Catalan and Basque surnames exist in Basque country and in French/North Catalonia. It's up to you whether you consider them to be ethnic French or not. To me they are obvious just split thanks to a political border, but ethnically they are the same people. I wouldn't consider Catalans and Basque from Spain to be ethnic French.

[Tooting Carmen]

Catalan and Basque surnames exist in Basque country and in French/North Catalonia. It's up to you whether you consider them to be ethnic French or not. To me they are obvious just split thanks to a political border, but ethnically they are the same people.

It is like how people in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland have surnames that originate in one of the countries of the British Isles other than their own, yet this does not stop them being any more native English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish.

[Damião de Góis]

Mexes: http://www.annuaire-celebrite.com/celebrite/13081/mexes/philippe_mexes.php


I'll be conviced when i see one of the following:

1) A proper source (meaning a more official source of news)

2) An interview

3) A portuguese surname

[Belenos]

It is true that french are a bit more dark haired than english ( the average is between dark blonde and light/ medium brown), but neither they are southern or meds. They are genetically closer to west/southern german and southern brits than italians. They look phenotypically western europeans and can be close to germans as well as northern iberians. Their language is a blend of germanic syntax and celtic/latin.
The french culture is very different from the mediterranean one, it is a celtic/latin/germanic mix.
The best classification for France would be western: closer to north iberia/north italy in the south (southwestern) and closer to uk, benelux, parts of germany in the north (northwestern).

[Tooting Carmen]

It is true that french are a bit more dark haired than english ( the average is between dark blonde and light/ medium brown), but neither they are southern or meds. They are genetically closer to west/southern german and southern brits than italians. They look phenotypically western europeans and can be close to germans as well as northern iberians. Their language is a blend of germanic syntax and celtic/latin.
The french culture is very different from the mediterranean one, it is a celtic/latin/germanic mix.
The best classification for France would be western: closer to north iberia/north italy in the south (southwestern) and closer to uk, benelux, parts of germany in the north (northwestern).

I could not have put it better myself.:thumb001:

[perikolez]

Mexes: http://www.annuaire-celebrite.com/celebrite/13081/mexes/philippe_mexes.php

Catalan and Basque surnames exist in Basque country and in French/North Catalonia. It's up to you whether you consider them to be ethnic French or not. To me they are obvious just split thanks to a political border, but ethnically they are the same people. I wouldn't consider Catalans and Basque from Spain to be ethnic French.

French Basque country population are no more than 300000 , and many of them arent ethnic basque. Bayonne and Biarritz are full of non basque people. We can aply the same to french Catalonians who are no more than 400000. 700000 are few people compared with 40-50 millions of white french.

On the other hand, many spaniard people emigrated to France directly , or from Argelia, Maroc, but in my opinion southern french people from occitan origin shouldnt be very diferent from aragonese, catalonian or valencian people, since occitan language is very related with catalonia and aragonese. I dont think that there is heavy phenotype variation between northern Spain and many french southern regions.

[archangel]

the female collection look fairly northern...strange not the way i've imagined french people.....

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Many people believe that English and French people look the same. Yet is that really so? Judge for yourselves by looking at their respective threads. Another reason to make this thread is that the two national football teams are the most multiracial in Europe, so this is dedicated to the native White players, who are declining in number rapidly.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?98808-Ethnic-English-football-players&highlight=ethnic+english+football+players
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/40381-Native-French-football-players

Where is majority of national French football players?!! :rolleyes:

[Tooting Carmen]

Where is majority of national French football players?!! :rolleyes:

Very funny. I don't think the French football team has had a White majority for at least twenty years.

[GrebluBro]

Very funny. I don't think the French football team has had a White majority for at least twenty years.

French people should be heavenly delighted even for ethnic-French being 4/11 of a team

[Tooting Carmen]

French people should be heavenly delighted even for ethnic-French being 4/11 of a team

Quite. Also, let us not forget that even many of the White players are of Polish or Southern European descent, thus actually having a thread dedicated to the ethnic French players is all the more necessary and urgent.

[Belenos]

I could not have put it better myself.:thumb001:

I think a lot of people need to go in France ( the real France and not Paris or Marseille which are cosmopolitan places) to see that the majority of stereotypes about french phenotypes and cultures are total BS.

[Tooting Carmen]

I think a lot of people need to go in France ( the real France and not Paris or Marseille which are cosmopolitan places) to see that the majority of stereotypes about french phenotypes and cultures are total BS.

The native French are a very varied Northern-Southern European hybrid - it is difficult to ascribe to them a typical phenotype in the first place. But yes, outside of Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Lille and Strasbourg, France is still far far more White than what the football team may suggest.

[Tooting Carmen]

Btw, I am interested to know as to why the French footballers have generated much more discussion and interest than the English ones.

[Belenos]

The native French are a very varied Northern-Southern European hybrid - it is difficult to ascribe to them a typical phenotype in the first place. But yes, outside of Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Lille and Strasbourg, France is still far far more White than what the football team may suggest.

I am a northern french and I am far to look southern european. You can see my thread "do i look french ?" in the personal taxonomy section ( I can't give the direct link coz I am on cell phone net browser) and give your opinion about my "frenchness".

[Tooting Carmen]

I am a northern french and I am far to look southern european. You can see my thread "do i look french ?" in the personal taxonomy section ( I can't give the direct link coz I am on cell phone net browser) and give your opinion about my "frenchness".

To be honest, most French people north of Paris look little if any different to Brits. It is only south of Paris that things change to a certain extent.

[Bloody]

Yes, but there are still many Brits that may seem more or less weird outside UK & Ireland among native populations of other countries. There are also more French people that could blend unnoticed in Poland than Brits.

In fact that holds true for a large portion of british and Irish population, they have a lot of variation within the country but It seems to be more of an insular variation, unlike french variation which is large, or even larger than british one but that usually overlaps with neighbouring continental european countries.

[Bloody]

The french seem to have more people on the extremes, I have seen more of the very blond very nordic ones among some french, but also some extremely mediterranean ones. The english seem more often than not fall on the middle range of phenotype with pale skined mousy or darkbrown haired, mixed to light eyes (brown eyes arent uncommon too) atlantid/ atlanto-brunn dominating the mix. Even the blondest British I have seen still have autoctonal british features, whereas very blond french looks very teutonic/germanic similar to blonde dutch and northern germans.

The french have more very germanic looking people and more very mediterranean looking peope at the same time, Although the average might be slighty darker, although some areas of northern/north-east france are as light if not lighter than most of the UK.

[Tooting Carmen]

The french seem to have more people on the extremes, I have seen more of the very blond very nordic ones among some french, but also some extremely mediterranean ones. The english seem more often than not fall on the middle range of phenotype with pale skined mousy or darkbrown haired, mixed to light eyes (brown eyes arent uncommon too) atlantid/ atlanto-brunn dominating the mix. Even the blondest British I have seen still have autoctonal british features, whereas very blond french looks very teutonic/germanic similar to blonde dutch and northern germans.

Could you demonstrate examples of players from each team who match what you have just said?

[guyinsf]

English players look more northern precisely northwest european,while french ones look more south european imho

This kind of over-generalization is responsible for so much misconceptions and fallacies!
Can you honestly look at all those ethnic French soccer players and still say they look "southern" as a whole? you must be blind!

[Tooting Carmen]

This kind of over-generalization is responsible for so much misconceptions and fallacies!
Can you honestly look at all those ethnic French soccer players and still say they look "southern" as a whole? you must be blind!

The French are a North-South hybrid, both ethnically and geographically.

[Smeagol]

Many people believe that English and French people look the same. Yet is that really so? Judge for yourselves by looking at their respective threads. Another reason to make this thread is that the two national football teams are the most multiracial in Europe, so this is dedicated to the native White players, who are declining in number rapidly.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?98808-Ethnic-English-football-players&highlight=ethnic+english+football+players
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/40381-Native-French-football-players

Lol, calling French a Mediterranean people in that second thread.:picard1:

[D´Sanglard]

Most French rugby players are from southwestern and southern france. However, in many players you may notice a strong Cm+ robust presence , which is not uncommon in this area. But some players look very Iberian, due to proximity to Spain.

Overall, I think both teams represent their countries as well. As to France, a nation with more diversity, it is easier to find individuals of different types

[Cristiano viejo]

lol is this French boy an ethnic French boy??
https://www.google.es/search?q=Valentin+Eysseric&newwindow=1&biw=946&bih=458&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=abRFVN2vHozmatL7gYgG&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ

[D´Sanglard]

lol is this French boy an ethnic French boy??
https://www.google.es/search?q=Valentin+Eysseric&newwindow=1&biw=946&bih=458&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=abRFVN2vHozmatL7gYgG&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ

Nope

[D´Sanglard]

Sorry. You sent me so many links and I was confused

Mexès, Lloris, Eysseric, Grenier and Gonalons are not fully french, but the others are very common in all over the country.

Football, in France, become more and more practice for immigrants of all over origins . Many ethnic French prefer other sports.

So, because off, the English players are more representative IMO

[Tooting Carmen]

Sorry. You sent me so many links and I was confused

Mexès, Lloris, Eysseric, Grenier and Gonalons are not fully french, but the others are very common in all over the country.

Football, in France, become more and more practice for immigrants of all over origins . Many ethnic French prefer other sports.

So, because off, the English players are more representative IMO

What other sports are still overwhelmingly ethnic French? The basketball team is almost entirely Black, even the rugby team is increasingly multi-ethnic...

[D´Sanglard]

What other sports are still overwhelmingly ethnic French? The basketball team is almost entirely Black, even the rugby team is increasingly multi-ethnic...

The professional national rugby team is becoming multi-ethnic, but U-20 and U-18 still is predominant european.

Ice hockey, Rowling, Sailing(fully french) Surf, Tennis(almost), Volley(still has), swimming. Women´s football is predominant among ethnic french, because is widespread in middle classes. Ski(all modalities), Biathlon, winter olympic sports in general. Handball is majority european but you find a good proportion of non-french, the same about Fency(wich is our standard sport, comes from the aristocracy). Football is te most popular so it attracts many immigrants.

I myself think that Ligue 1 is boring. I don´t support any french team. I support Juventus and Bayern München

[Hadouken]

the French have more CM and a little more Med influence

[Tooting Carmen]

The professional national rugby team is becoming multi-ethnic, but U-20 and U-18 still is predominant european.

Yes, but many of them still aren't ethnic French as such though - Frederic Michalak and Dimitri Szarszewski (Polish), Morgan Parra (Portuguese), Thomas Domingo (Spanish) etc. etc.

[D´Sanglard]

Yes, but many of them still aren't ethnic French as such though - Frederic Michalak and Dimitri Szarszewski (Polish), Morgan Parra (Portuguese), Thomas Domingo (Spanish) etc. etc.

Yes, because rugby is one of the most popular sports in France, especially in the SW and south, so it is common to see players with Spanish, Basque and Catalan surnames.

About the Poles. France received a large Polish immigration and they have adapted very well to our culture and regions that settled. We have several examples of athletes with Polish origin, as Raymond Kopa (Football player) and Rugby, Jean-Claude Skrela, father of David Skrela, both played for a long time in the french national rugby team. This is a matter of culture integrating and for being in the country for some time

[Odin]

French team has more Meds.