[SPLIT] Christian Apologetics in the Heathenry Portal

[Psychonaut]

Moderator Hat On

One more time Ødhvidh Fridhason, this is not the appropriate venue for Christian apologetics. Since you are not a Heathen, please confine your critiques of Heathenry to those which are based in sourceable, historical references or logically posited arguments. Pronouncements about the "Truth of Abraham" or "redeeming wayward souls" do not belong here. Further posts to this effect will be deleted.

Moderator Hat Off

[Brynhild]

"God botherer" sounds like ignorant Richard Dawkins speech. So what if paganism antedates the Gentile accession to the absolute and objective Truth? Aristotle and Plato have already been mentioned as believing in the same Truth as Abraham, which is why they are so valued. Aristotle and Plato were not Christians, but they acknowledged God the Father and most likely, God the Holy Spirit. The Son had yet to come, to Redeem the wayward souls.

For the record, I don't even know who Richard Dawkins is. I use the term God Botherer, because it has always been, in my experience, the Christians who must ram their ideology down another person's throats. Perhaps I'm generalising, but I don't see Heathens attempting to convert the masses. All of us who I know have found it our own way, not coerced into it. As for the suggestion of redeeming wayward souls, that would prove my point as far as God Bothering is concerned.

[Fred]

For the record, I don't even know who Richard Dawkins is. I use the term God Botherer, because it has always been, in my experience, the Christians who must ram their ideology down another person's throats. Perhaps I'm generalising, but I don't see Heathens attempting to convert the masses. All of us who I know have found it our own way, not coerced into it. As for the suggestion of redeeming wayward souls, that would prove my point as far as God Bothering is concerned.I was not the one who brought up religion. There are many critiques here of Christianity which are not based in sourceable, historical references, nor logical arguments, but pronouncements about the "fakeness of Christianity" and the "cultural appropriation by Christianity". Those here who suck it up like a sponge, have no critical view because they are in the tank for revisionist fantasy, a bubble I apparently popped by pointing out that it's not all black and white, see: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141266&postcount=105


Moderator Hat On

One more time Ødhvidh Fridhason, this is not the appropriate venue for Christian apologetics. Since you are not a Heathen, please confine your critiques of Heathenry to those which are based in sourceable, historical references or logically posited arguments. Pronouncements about the "Truth of Abraham" or "redeeming wayward souls" do not belong here. Further posts to this effect will be deleted.

Moderator Hat OffSo, you do not believe in Loki's position on free discussion over the issues, but prefer hypocrisy in making wild acccusations and counter-claims which cannot be substantiated, nor criticised? While this is not a Nutzi forum, it is also not a heathen supremacy forum either. If one must never mention opposing views on a topic, then you propose to run a heathen dictatorship. In any case, I did not deny that Christmas has heathen features to it, nor did I condemn that. In fact, I offered what amounts to a blessing, by affirming the legacy of heathenry as it has increased the richness of Christmas as a festival. My first post on this thread was expressing this, but because it was not an unquestioning, absolutist appreciation for the revisionist fantasy ideology, you are shoving down people's throats, you got upset, so are the Anglos oppressing you now? See how nice I began my entry here, in praise: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141169&postcount=85

Whilst I merely expressed a countervailing view on the same heathen/Christian relationship, I was met with one-liners, potshots and soundbites which on Skadi might be called "retardisms", because they are not fully formed and corresponding to the same test you pushed onto me as a requirement to post here. You just like it as a one way street and none dare criticise how you go about abusing other people hypocritically, against your own "double standards": http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141259&postcount=100

I'll have you recall that you and I were not foes on Skadi, but we did have a number of agreements. I did not do much in the way of Christianity back then, but that shouldn't matter for one so tolerant and understanding as yourself.

[Psychonaut]

So, you do not believe in Loki's position on free discussion over the issues

Over the issues pertinent to each area of the forum? Yes. Coming into the Heathenry Portal and raving about saving wayward souls is not pertinent to this sub-forum and, so long as I moderate it, will not be tolerated any more than any other kind of off topic posts.

This is not out of hatred or disregard for Christianity or Christians. It is about the structural integrity and highbrow nature of this (and other) regions of the Apricity. Christian apologetics have a designated place on the Apricity; it is the Christisnity sub-fora. Heathens do not go there and attempt to convert you folks, and you will not come here and do the same. This is not just something that bugs me (and honestly, it only bugs me a little since I'm a sucker for debate), but the majority of the Apricity's Heathens have at some point requested of me that Christian attempts at conversion and exercises in apologetics be excluded from the Heathenry sub-forum. It is, in my opinion, an eminently reasonable request that has already been reciprocated by us.

[Fred]

Over the issues pertinent to each area of the forum? Yes. Coming into the Heathenry Portal and raving about saving wayward souls is not pertinent to this sub-forum and, so long as I moderate it, will not be tolerated any more than any other kind of off topic posts.

This is not out of hatred or disregard for Christianity or Christians. It is about the structural integrity and highbrow nature of this (and other) regions of the Apricity. Christian apologetics have a designated place on the Apricity; it is the Christisnity sub-fora. Heathens do not go there and attempt to convert you folks, and you will not come here and do the same. This is not just something that bugs me (and honestly, it only bugs me a little since I'm a sucker for debate), but the majority of the Apricity's Heathens have at some point requested of me that Christian attempts at conversion and exercises in apologetics be excluded from the Heathenry sub-forum. It is, in my opinion, an eminently reasonable request that has already been reciprocated by us.The Christian and heathen opinion on the way they relate to one another is naturally going to differ and have a conceptual outlook which may not always coincide, but I did in fact provide both points of view, that they could agree and disagree. I am the only one to have done so from a very technical standpoint. By pointing out the grey, I was lambasted. Who has thin skin? Christians don't have full reign over the public sphere, so they are induced towards private refuges. That's what the whole idea is about in worshiping indoors, or at monasteries, whilst heathens like the public worship in the open, without a roof and they do have a history of pillaging monasteries, a point I did not leave out. Why must Christians be forced into hiding, for the sake of heathen pride? Heathen pride may swell to the point of the Roman Emperors, who had men worship them and appease their pagan appetites, whilst Christians were forced into catacombs. I will not be relegated to that in this day and age. I have nothing against heathens posting anywhere on Apricity, including the Christianity section. I appreciate the heathen sense when it is in the same mindset as Christianity. Many would say that is what Tolkien and Lewis have provided to the masses. It is not really offencive, but for some reason, heathens make it a special case for them as some kind of persecuted angels, while Christians make no provision for perfection and innocence to anybody but Jesus Christ himself and this is what keeps our pride in check, since none of us is God, nor the Son. If Heathen pride is allowed to go unchecked, how long before somebody decides he is the new Alexander the Great and a son of Zeus, for instance? Who would take this seriously? If anybody has a short fuse and ego problem on this, it is not Christians, assuredly.

[Psychonaut]

I am the only one to have done so from a very technical standpoint.

You're not. Lutiferre was more technical in his apologetics than you've ever been. His on-topic posts were retained and responded to, but blatant preaching was (in the Heathenry Portal) not permitted.


Christians don't have full reign over the public sphere, so they are induced towards private refuges.

Not my problem. You already have a "refuge" here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=108).

[Fred]

You're not. Lutiferre was more technical in his apologetics than you've ever been. His on-topic posts were retained and responded to, but blatant preaching was (in the Heathenry Portal) not permitted.



Not my problem. You already have a "refuge" here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=108).Anthropos has been doing swell and I lauded his contribution here:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141294&postcount=113

Lutiferre responded to this thread, yes or no? I thought not, as what you tell me is untrue equivocation as if it shall do. You only hold Lutiferre's positions in high esteem because he has been doubting his own Christianity to appease your Abrahamaphobia and feel more welcome. I stated that I do not expect a "refuge", only that heathens are not allowed to monopolise any subforum either; complete even-handedness...no ownership of Christmas and no ownership of subforums:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141270&postcount=106

Do you honestly believe my posts are worse than this?:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141226&postcount=93

It must be because something true must be concealed, to avoid it getting out to the masses and a whole fantasy world brought down.

In any case, if you believe this belongs in the Christianity subforum, why not wisk it away there, or are your Nietzschean heathen powers not strong enough to do so?

[Psychonaut]

You only hold Lutiferre's positions in high esteem because he has been doubting his own Christianity to appease your Abrahamaphobia and feel more welcome.

While I have a lot of respect for Lutiferre's intelligence and self-education, his critiques of Heathenry constantly strayed from his strengths and descended into the realms of unfounded assertions that were not rooted in any actual research. This was addressed, and he desisted.


I stated that I do not expect a "refuge", only that heathens are not allowed to monopolise any subforum either

Sorry to break it to you, but Heathens do monopolize the Heathenry Portal. Don't like it? Tough shit.


Do you honestly believe my posts are worse than this?:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141226&postcount=93

I don't know if you noticed when you quoted his post, but that fellow has been recently banned for repeated trolling. Probably not the best comparison to draw.


In any case, if you believe this belongs in the Christianity subforum, why not wisk it away there, or are your Nietzschean heathen powers not strong enough to do so?

This thread is about your disagreement with my policy on the Heathenry Portal. It stays here.

[Fred]

While I have a lot of respect for Lutiferre's intelligence and self-education, his critiques of Heathenry constantly strayed from his strengths and descended into the realms of unfounded assertions that were not rooted in any actual research. This was addressed, and he desisted.



Sorry to break it to you, but Heathens do monopolize the Heathenry Portal. Don't like it? Tough shit.



I don't know if you noticed when you quoted his post, but that fellow has been recently banned for repeated trolling. Probably not the best comparison to draw.



This thread is about your disagreement with my policy on the Heathenry Portal. It stays here.So you will define what is and what is not Truth? I have seen nothing from you that even approaches a thesis. So, with your ignorant, know-it-all dismissal of legitimate philosophical concerns (none of us profess to be masters), in favour of some fiction-based mysticism of the Aryan Superbeast a la Nietzsche, this empowers you to freely debase other people with lowbrow statements and censorship? If some, like Lutiferre, Anthropos and myself, approach the same issues with more of a Kierkegaardian POV, then we are anathema to the subforum? One doesn't need to use Nietzsche as a basis for Heathenry, as it can stand on its own feet. I use Julian the Apostate's positions on Neo-Platonism for my appreciation of paganism, but assert no fundamentalism about it either. To learn means to open a mind, not to box and imprison it.

You fail to understand Loki and Fjaalraav's policy with regards to Europeanism here, to the point where you define Christianity as un-European because you believe Heathenry equates with Europeanism.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141586&postcount=39

In no way does Europeanism exclude one or the other, so you should be a bit more sensitive to appreciate the contribution of Christendom. Your French origins are considered Daughter of Holy Mother Church, but what course do you admittedly take? Post-Huguenot Jacobinism and even Germanophilia, which is traitorous to France. Blame the Christian Anglo though. Hold some strange vengeance, even though Jeanne d'Arc is your national martyr-saint. Could you see how your responses are often irrational and unfounded, even uncharacteristic of a preservationist?

[Psychonaut]

You fail to understand Loki and Fjaalraav's policy with regards to Europeanism here, to the point where you define Christianity as un-European because you believe Heathenry equates with Europeanism.

Whatever dude. If either of them has a problem with the way the Heathenry Portal is run, I'm sure they'll bring it up to me. Until that time, keep your preaching elsewhere.