How do you fight fatigue, depression & other winter ailments?

[Anthropos]

I got me a bottle of menthol liniment. It's good against muscle tension and muscle pains, and seems to be good for the skin as well.

[Äike]

I drink milk, it contains Vitamin D. Northern Europeans have a serious lack of vitamin D during winter and that causes depression. Thus drinking milk helps a lot. I also eat fish, which contains Vitamin D. Vitamin D is very important for the body.

Deficiency of vitamin D is the main problem for Northern Europeans, which causes depression and several other problems.

[Loki]

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[Monolith]

Social activity helps. Also, a bottle of rakija. ummm, maybe even a bottle of rakija during social activity. ;)

[Svipdag]

Unsuccessfully. :yawnee20:

Seriously, though, I try to take a 7-15 day cruise to the islands of the Caribbean during the mid-winter to get some sunshine and diversion. It helps.:thumb001:

[Eldritch]

The Winter Bleak is just a fact of life up here. People's energy levels naturally drop. Pushing oneself too hard just results in the fatigue and depression you mention. Go ahead and hibernate happily.

[Poltergeist]

I don't fight them.

[The Black Prince]

I always advice people to take care not to be bored, and to eat and drink well. Like Karl said a lack of certain vitamins and minerals causes a low spirit. And people that are already feeling down are going to think negatively in circles when they have nothing to do and/or otherwise get bored.

For the rest it depends on your nature, if you are a natural introvert, don't go to crouded places were everyone is having fun. You will feel you are alien in that environment and that is not good for people with a weak selfesteem.
For the natural extraverts, seek up the crouded places and don't spend to much time alone. Otherwise you will feel only lonely and you'l start thinking negative in circles causing a constant drain on your selfesteem.

Concerning alcohol, ca depends .. If you know that alcohol makes you emotional while you are already feeling down, don't drink alcohol. If alcohol makes you feel that you can conquer the world (not literally meant) and makes you sleep instantly, a few bottles of beer or some glasses of wine is no bad idea imho.;)

[Phlegethon]

By going postal.

[Óttar]

Booze and Persian food, and a chick if I can help it, but there's no such thing as the chick store.

[SwordoftheVistula]

but there's no such thing as the chick store.


Head down I-95 to RI, they're called 'massage parlors' and indoor sales are legal there :thumb001:

[Phlegethon]

Head down I-95 to RI, they're called 'massage parlors' and indoor sales are legal there :thumb001:

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a1329/a1329_bm.gif

[Inese]

I have to take that for some weeks now :rolleyes:

http://i45.tinypic.com/312u6wo.jpg

[Bard]

I don't take anything, my body and mind are strong enough, but our winter is not cold as a norwegian/finnish one.

[Ulf]

Crack usually helps.

[Phlegethon]

Crystal meth for me. Intact teeth and looks are grossly overrated.

[Lady L]

I smoke pot. Seriously. But wait ...I do that all throughout the year :D

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I travel according to the weather bureau
Normally when it is cold in Johburg it is pleasant in Springbok/Upington/Pietersburg/Capetown

[Germanicus]

Plastic pipe glue for me....gives you a headache though.:(

[Ariets]

I don't have to, I love winter much more than summer.

[Poltergeist]

True. These are not only winter ailments.

[Trog]

SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) is a recognised mental health problem, particularly in northern populations that are deprived of natural daylight. There are SAD lamps that can be bought, research-based evidence shows that it can help.

However, note the animals during winter who hibernate - they prepare for spring and the new beginning it offers. So you could always go to the gymn and build that summer body. This generates happy hormones and more energy.

Also, think of the things winter is good for. Cosy nights in front of a blazing fire, hot cocoa, Christmas etc.

[Phlegethon]

Cosy nights in front of a blazing fire, hot cocoa, Christmas etc.

If there is a blazing fire in my house at night then there is nothing cosy about it, but a cause for panic as I've most probably fallen victim to an arson attack.

[Allenson]

Winters can be long, cold & dark here, no doubt about it.

I find the best remedy is to set one's internal clock with the available natural light. In other words, get up with the light, spend as much time as possible outside, stay active--skiing, hiking, walking, working (physical) and retire to the warm house when darkness sets in.

Truth be told, I don't have the time in the winter to suffer from "SAD". The daylight is short enough as it as to be bogged down by the blues--wood to haul, a woodstove to run (24/7), snow to plow & shovel and deep powder to ski in. ;)

There may very well be a genetic component to seasonal blues--but I have two things to say on this: 1. north Europids who still live in their native climate should be plenty equiped to handle shorter daylengths and 2. much of 'SAD' I truly believe is brought on by the modern lifestyle. Indoor inactivity and missing much of the most rejuvenative time of day (morning) due to late sleeping are sure ways to bring on seasonal issues, me thinks.

[Phlegethon]

I find the best remedy is to set one's internal clock with the available natural light. In other words, get up with the light, spend as much time as possible outside, stay active--skiing, hiking, walking, working (physical) and retire to the warm house when darkness sets in.

Too bad that some folks have to work for a living, in neon-lit offices and on constantly changing shifts.

[Allenson]

Too bad that some folks have to work for a living, in neon-lit offices and on constantly changing shifts.

I work 40 hours per week inside. Luckily, we have a long row of south facing windows in our office.

Also, my shifts don't change though. I could never work night shift in the winter. There's a guy I know who says that he doesn't see much daylight for about two months as his shift is like 6PM--4AM or some such thing.

And, I did say as much as one can.

Now get off the couch!

[Sol Invictus]

Booze and Persian food, and a chick if I can help it, but there's no such thing as the chick store.

Dude, in my area we call that Jarvis Street, but it's so close to gay-central that you simply can't risk finding out what's real and what's not.

What I do;

Nothing. I am a slave. I can't 'hibernate' because 'hibernation' = losing my job = that sucks balls. I already load up on vitamins, drink lots of water that isn't mixed with neurotoxins and flouride. But since we're used to -41 C weather here, I can be thankful I am getting fat, a little insulation.

[Fortis in Arduis]

I obtained a job lot of Valium, just for emergencies, but I am going back to early morning yoga classes and I have two daylight bulbs on timer switches, one in each room of my two/three room apartment.

They run from 3am, when I need to get up, until 6pm, when I need to wind down. That is quite a long solar day, but I have decided to take control, and life in the metropolis is to far removed from nature anyway.

I think that it is important to eat plenty of protein and fat, so being a lacto-vegetarian I eat a lot of lentils, broccoli, and LARGE coronary-inducing amounts of delicious unsalted butter and ghee from both cows and goats. I prefer goats' butter if I have a cold, because it acts against the mucus. I take yoghurt as well.

Take plenty of spices and condiments with your food, including salt and maybe sugar. Eat comfortably.

We should hang up the decorative lights, exclude the draughts, turn up the heating, stay in more, bring in some evergreens and pleasant warming fragrances and candles.

I do not feel the cold much because I am a little autistic, but although I can handle wearing shorts and sandals right the way through winter, I always take care to wear a scarf, hat and gloves (getting colder in that order) if I begin to shiver. Autists have to be careful with the cold. I know of one chap who became quite ill one winter.

Just stay in more, but enjoy winter, enjoy the snow, enjoy being a guest and enjoy being a host.

My ex came back to stay a few times, which has been lovely, and I stayed at a friend's house last night because he was feeling a little down and rang me all drunk and miserable.

Use the telephone, write letters and Christmas cards and tell people that you love them. This is very important. Send gifts.

Soon it will be the season to clear it all away. In fact, ayurveda recommends that we do this straight after the winter solstice which coincides with Christmas.

After the solstice we strip it all away and get rough and ready for spring.

Enjoy the winter comforts when you still respectably can!

[Jamt]

I obtained a job lot of Valium, just for emergencies, but I am going back to early morning yoga classes and I have two daylight bulbs on timer switches, one in each room of my two/three room apartment.

They run from 3am, when I need to get up, until 6pm, when I need to wind down. That is quite a long solar day, but I have decided to take control, and life in the metropolis is to far removed from nature anyway.

Just stay in more, but enjoy winter, enjoy the snow, enjoy being a guest and enjoy being a host.

Daylight bulbs, aka daylight therapy doesn’t work. Swedish healthcare are dismantling that project after it has been proven not to work whatsoever. Sticking your head out the door or sitting by the window as much as possible is the only way.

[Phlegethon]

Indeed, daylight bulbs are a joke. I can't believe that some medical insurances actually paid for that nonsense.

Actually my first apartment I took over from a neighbour who was self-employed and worked from home and said he could not handle its darkness. Worked for me though, as I can be depressed in broad daylight as well.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Daylight bulbs, aka daylight therapy doesn’t work. Swedish healthcare are dismantling that project after it has been proven not to work whatsoever. Sticking your head out the door or sitting by the window as much as possible is the only way.

I do not need daylight 'therapy', just something slightly more effective than a poxy alarm clock.

I have nice food, luxurious furnishings and four nice big floor-to-ceiling Italianate windows with a balconette, so thank you for your kind generous concern.

My place much much better than this:

http://www.kensingtonandchelseadecor.com/images/property/large/kensington_chelsea_decor-cornwall_gardens_88-0001.jpg

:)

[Jamt]

your place is that big? Respect.

[Monolith]

I have to take that for some weeks now :rolleyes:
Damn. You're on Prozac? :confused:

[Lars]

Norwegians, Swedes and Finns are tough mother fuckers. We currently have seven hours of daylight here in Denmark and that pretty depressive. When the clock is around 16:15 we have total darkness.

[Birka]

I drink milk, it contains Vitamin D. Northern Europeans have a serious lack of vitamin D during winter and that causes depression. Thus drinking milk helps a lot. I also eat fish, which contains Vitamin D. Vitamin D is very important for the body.

Deficiency of vitamin D is the main problem for Northern Europeans, which causes depression and several other problems.

2000 IU of Vitamin D3 is now recommended for all, especially in the winter months. Real, peer reviewed, placebo controlled studies have shown Vitamin D helps reduce hip fractures in the elderly, diabetes in children, and heart disease in all ages. The lecture at a recent medical seminar was very convincing. Everyone there said they are now starting to take at least 2000 IU of D3 immediately. Including moi.

It is now theorized that Vitamin D is required for the expression of over 1000 human genes, much more important than Vitamin C.

[Falkata]

I´m like WTF reading this thread.
People on prozac, therapy, special diets,vitamins ... shit it´s just winter not the IIWW :p

[Inese]

Damn. You're on Prozac? :confused:
Hm is it the name of the medicament in America?? :confused: Yes i had to start to take them some weeks in the past, i feel often depressed and get emotional but i need to keep calm!!:rolleyes: But it has not much to do with the winter, i have a diagnose for depression and euphoric phases for some years but i never wanted to take pills. But i was persuaded by the doctor and my parents that it could be a good idea after a very bad phase in late October and i feel a little bit better ---- you know, i had big worrys that i experience my life as a weired dream if i have to take antidepressants but it is not very bad! They are no lucky pills, they dont make you lucky but they help that you dont feel very strong feelings of sadness or anger , they dull your emotions but make no wonders

[Phlegethon]

Don't worry, fluoxetin only ruins your kidneys if you take it for a longer period of time, you'll always be tired, gain weight, can't work a proper job where you interact with machines, can't drive a car...

I'd rather be depressed then. Apart from that there are funnier ways to kill off your kidney.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Hm is it the name of the medicament in America??

Yes.


:confused: Yes i had to start to take them some weeks in the past, i feel often depressed and get emotional but i need to keep calm!!:rolleyes:

How about a total change of lifestyle instead?


But it has not much to do with the winter, i have a diagnose for depression and euphoric phases for some years but i never wanted to take pills.



But i was persuaded by the doctor and my parents that it could be a good idea after a very bad phase in late October

Perhaps your doctor and parents are depressing assholes? My doctor 'persuaded' me to take Prozac when I was exactly your age (that is what it is called in UK-merica)

I would take their diagnosis of 'manic depression' and ram up their ass, and ask my parents for more pocket-money and a nice winter break to Canary Islands. Find the creative you.


and i feel a little bit better ---- you know, i had big worrys that i experience my life as a weired dream if i have to take antidepressants but it is not very bad! They are no lucky pills, they dont make you lucky but they help that you dont feel very strong feelings of sadness or anger , they dull your emotions but make no wonders

I like being a zombie too sometimes, but not 24/7. Take it from an old hand, you deserve a break but Prozac is dreadfully boring.

I think you need a check-up from neck-up, and see about getting rid of the toxic elements of your daily life, including negative thinking and negative relationships.

Finding God helped me for a time, and yoga is the best form of exercise. ('Fuck off' to anyone who disagrees, you will not be running when you are 93...) Just my rambling opinion, but Prozac is mind-numbing.


your place is that big? Respect.

No, it is a first floor apartment of a double-fronted (four balconied 'French' windows across) in a white stucco town house C 1840.

In my part of town that is as good as it gets for a one-bedroom flat and yes, I am far too proud of it.

The first floor apartments have the nice big windows, the balconies and the high ceilings and every freak wants one. They were the old upstairs drawing rooms and they have the best original features.

Anything less would be very depressing for me.


I´m like WTF reading this thread.
People on prozac, therapy, special diets,vitamins ... shit it´s just winter not the IIWW :p

You live in Spain. So would I, asshole, and preferably the Santa Catalina Hotel in Las Palmas of Gran Canaria! :mad:

http://www.priorguest.com/img/gallery/lpa/san/exterior.jpg

[Jägerstaffel]

I do not need to.

I find cold weather, overcast skies, and the biting crisp air of winter invigorating.

[Osweo]

I do not need to.

I find cold weather, overcast skies, and the biting crisp air of winter invigorating.

Me too. I actually welcome the chance to walk about with my eyes fully open instead of squinting at the sun. I find Summer far more oppressive. And I like walking about in the semi-dark too. Especially over white snow.

I don't think I've ever caught the weather or seasons affecting me too much. If other things depress me, I just take the dog out, or do something to take my mind off it. :shrug: Or whinge about it to people here in PMs! :p

I'm rather horrified at prozac and so on, I must say. Snap out of it, Folks! :)

[Trog]

Yes.



How about a total change of lifestyle instead?






Perhaps your doctor and parents are depressing assholes? My doctor 'persuaded' me to take Prozac when I was exactly your age (that is what it is called in UK-merica)

I would take their diagnosis of 'manic depression' and ram up their ass, and ask my parents for more pocket-money and a nice winter break to Canary Islands. Find the creative you.



I like being a zombie too sometimes, but not 24/7. Take it from an old hand, you deserve a break but Prozac is dreadfully boring.

I think you need a check-up from neck-up, and see about getting rid of the toxic elements of your daily life, including negative thinking and negative relationships.


This is exactly the kind of attitude that mental health doesn't need. Telling someone to give themself a good shake often reinforces feelings of low mood. Depression has been proven to be linked to chemical& hormonal changes in the brain that need to be addressed. A lot of the newer treatments aim to this. Of course you're right that a holistic, biopsychosocial view is also needed as well.

[The Lawspeaker]

Here winters are grey, damp and miserable- full of rain, fog and sleet. And as a consequence I can get depressed. But I fight it with a good book, a pub with a fireplace and a good glass of beer or Grand Marnier (or mead at home).
I usually also try to maintain a regular diet and I swim to keep myself fit.

Usually talking to someone special will also lift my spirit a bit.

When it has been snowing a lot I usually don't feel down as I am just too amazed with the fact that we finally have a real winter and I spend a lot of time outside walking in the forest.

[Fortis in Arduis]

This is exactly the kind of attitude that mental health doesn't need. Telling someone to give themself a good shake often reinforces feelings of low mood. Depression has been proven to be linked to chemical& hormonal changes in the brain that need to be addressed. A lot of the newer treatments aim to this. Of course you're right that a holistic, biopsychosocial view is also needed as well.

Like your captive audience, do you? Do they make you feel 'normal'?

:coffee:

I can only speak for myself, but I feel that I relate to Inese, actually.

I have lived depression and Aspergers' syndrome for 30 years, and I do not cope very well sometimes, but I know that none of your boring drugs EVER helped me.

Hard physical yoga, belief in God, getting a LIFE COACH who I pay by results, not a quack nor a robot 'counsellor', and making sure that I have a good time, did.

Finding someone intelligent enough to understand was the hardest thing. Mental health professionals generally inadequate, and unless they are paid by results, they are rubbish.


It is the same with pizza and prostitutes, you people are no different, so get over yourselves!

[The Lawspeaker]

I remember that I took Seroxat when I was 18 during a severe depression. It didn't help me and actually only managed to weaken both my spirit and my body. It gave me headaches, nauseated me etc.

My depression stopped after I quit using that "medicine" and when I met that person that would come to enrich my life for some two years.

Well- the counselors and psychiatrists . I am sure they work very hard. The only thing that I am wondering about is who they are working for.

[Fortis in Arduis]

I remember that I took Seroxat when I was 18 during a severe depression. It didn't help me and actually only managed to weaken both my spirit and my body. It gave me headaches, nauseated me etc.

Oh my God. I smoked a joint on that stuff. They should have put a warning on the packet. It was fucking awful. I was exactly 18 when I was on Seroxat, I was on Prozac when I was 17, I more clearly remember now.

Did recent studies show that anti-depressants do not work anyway? :coffee:

Stuff their rubbish anti-depressants! :mad:


My depression stopped after I quit using that "medicine" and when I met that person that would come to enrich my life for some two years.

If you had kept taking the pills you might not have met that person.


Well- the counselors and psychiatrists . I am sure they work very hard. The only thing that I am wondering about is who they are working for.

They are working for money and whoever pays them.

If that is you, and you pay them regardless of results, then you will never get better. Think about it. :lightbul:

If public money is paying for it - God help you. The stories of abuse, neglect and misdiagnosis are never-ending.

Torment always exists in the soul, not always in the brain, but psychiatry and their drugs deny that, because their discipline was founded by a Marxist Wilhelm Wundt.

They can kiss my ring.

[Trog]

Like your captive audience, do you? Do they make you feel 'normal'?

:coffee:

I can only speak for myself, but I feel that I relate to Inese, actually.

I have lived depression and Aspergers' syndrome for 30 years, and I do not cope very well sometimes, but I know that none of your boring drugs EVER helped me.

Hard physical yoga, belief in God, getting a LIFE COACH who I pay by results, not a quack nor a robot 'counsellor', and making sure that I have a good time, did.

Finding someone intelligent enough to understand was the hardest thing. Mental health professionals generally inadequate, and unless they are paid by results, they are rubbish.


It is the same with pizza and prostitutes, you people are no different, so get over yourselves!

Evidenced-based research says otherwise. Now it is all about relationships and recovery in mental health, communication and a person-centred approach play a huge role. But until you've actually worked in an acute admissions setting and see people who relapse through not taking their medication, then your experience, as personal and as inspiring it may be, is quite irrelvant. Medication concordance is a huge issue, many patients don't want to take their medication and stop doing so when they feel better - and most are guaranteed to relapse. I'm not just saying it is all about medication and your advice about spirituality and yoga are definite encouraging for people. However, when someone is so severly depressed that they are mute, catatonic even, and you see the turnaround after their medication regime has been attended to, then I assure you that you would be quite humbled after casting such personal assertions. Even ECT can have a huge impact on severe depression that is resistant to standard forms of medication.

It's not just as simple as demanding people to get a grip, it is far more complex than this. It all depends on the person's life experiences, their ability to cope with stress and pressures, their age, their support network etc. For some people it can happen randomly or even after an episode of poor sleep, all of a sudden they're all over the place. And it often is a result of a chemical/biological event in the brain. That needs to be corrected.

Incidentally my "captive audience", I assume you mean patients, never make me feel normal, I don'teven know what feeling "normal" is. They make me feel fortunate, yes, particularly when I see what they've had to deal with, but no, they don't make me feel better about my own life, if that's what you were insinuating. Indeed, many schizophrenic and people with personalty disorders are very artistic and can project a unique way of looking at the world.

[Trog]

Oh my God. I smoked a joint on that stuff. They should a put a warning on the packet. It was fucking awful. I was exactly 18 when I was on Seroxat, I was on prozac when I was 17, I more clearly remember now.

Did recent studies show that anti-depressants do not work anyway? :coffee:

Stuff their rubbish anti-depressants! :mad:



If you had kept taking the pills you might not have met that person.



They are working for money and whoever pays them.

If that is you, and you pay them regardless of results, then you will never get better. Think about it. :lightbul:

If public money is paying for it - God help you. The stories of abuse, neglect and misdiagnosis are never-ending.

Torment always exists in the soul, not always in the brain, but psychiatry and their drugs deny that, because their discipline was founded by a Marxist Wilhelm Wundt.

They can kiss my ring.

There are actual studies that demonstrate that anti-depressants do work, it's not just about the placebo effect, they work on the serotonin levels of the brain and the dopamine levels. These are physiological/biological indicators of depression, particularly in people who have been under stress or have suffered low mood for a pro-longed period of time.

If you have taken illicit substances, even if only cannabis, yet turnaround and claim standard medications don't work in altering mood, then you are contradicting yourself. Indeed, it appears you are personally suspectible to psychotic-induced episodes and have probably had to have been treated accordingly.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Indeed, it appears you are personally suspectible to psychotic-induced episodes and have probably had to have been treated accordingly.

Not at all, just mild depression. I fell under the mild autism category, but was undiagnosed until three years ago, despite my being a textbook case, testament to the consummate failure of your 'profession'.

I have never taken an anti-psychotic medication in my life, although I know a few people who have and do, and I do appreciate your viewpoint and their viewpoint, and that it helps them.

My beef is that your dubious 'profession' denies that all of these problems exist firstly in the soul, and maintains that they are always in the brain or the body and have a chemical or behavioural solution.

Psyche actually means 'soul'. Did you even know that, material-tard?

I tend fall in with the much cooler, much better, much more refined, R.D. Laing and C.G. Jung end of the spectrum, if at all.

You seem to be a materialist, a behaviourist, and are therefore something of a dullard.

Does that make me psychotic by your reckoning? Ok, I see how it works? ;)

I have also taken more phenethylamines than you have had good shags, and I never went really crazy.

Last of all, I live in Chelsea. Do you even have a life? :dielaughing:

[The Lawspeaker]

Easy Fortis.. easy. But I have to agree with you that contemporary psychiatry has led to some pretty piss poor results. And I have the feeling that the modern treatments provided for by the pharmaceutical industry hardly yield any better result then the ones in use 100 years ago.

It's lacking a holistic approach. Or a humane approach for that matter.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Easy Fortis.. easy. But I have to agree with you that contemporary psychiatry has led to some pretty piss poor results. And I have the feeling that the modern treatments provided for by the pharmaceutical industry hardly yield any better result then the ones in use 100 years ago.

It's lacking a holistic approach. Or a humane approach for that matter.

No shit, Sherlock. :rolleyes:

I think that the lack of holistic approach in society as a whole has caused nearly all the problems.

Trog, I would like to Rudolf Steiner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner) you, and that is the dirtiest filthiest thing you could think of! ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

No shit, Sherlock. :rolleyes:
People like us have known this for years but for a lot of people this still is a revelation... :coffee:

[Eldritch]

I remember that I took Seroxat when I was 18 during a severe depression. It didn't help me and actually only managed to weaken both my spirit and my body. It gave me headaches, nauseated me etc.

[/B].

I took Seroxat for a while too. The side effects were awful. Headaches, priapism, fatigue, etc .... :rolleyes:

But not all anti-depressants work for everybody. Many people have to try several of them to actually find one that helps.

And obviously I agree with the previous comments that just stuffing your face with pills is not enough if you're feeling down.

[Anthropos]

I´m like WTF reading this thread.
[...] ... shit it´s just winter not the IIWW :p

You have more sunlight though (I think). We've had less than 10 hours of sunlight during all november.

[Rusalka]

I don't.

I have a whole-year depression. Very mild, mind you. The kind of one that would make you feel a fraud if you go search for treatment but still present enough to make you feel it's there. Generally, social activity works wonder but even then, the reult seems to be the same: I go back to be me fold within myself, Origami-like.

[Absinthe]

We don't have winter here,

but wait! - I love the winter, and it is not winter that makes me sad but the lack of it thereof. ;)

This is why I love travelling North in the winter, the colder the better... I can't get enough of snow, it calms me down and soothes my soul... :)

Seriously, this extended autumn period in Greece is nerve breaking, because lately we've been having about 6 months of summer and 6 months of autumn.

Now, asides from the weather: for me depression is tied to real life circumstances, not weather and sunlight. I don't take anything for that; I know that in order to get out of it, I need to overcome the obstacles in my life that are causing me to be depressed.

[Absinthe]

This is exactly the kind of attitude that mental health doesn't need. Telling someone to give themself a good shake often reinforces feelings of low mood. Depression has been proven to be linked to chemical& hormonal changes in the brain that need to be addressed. A lot of the newer treatments aim to this. Of course you're right that a holistic, biopsychosocial view is also needed as well.
Hm, I don't know Trog, he can be crass but I think he's right...

To me depression is overrated as a condition, not overrated in itself (I know it is very serious) but overrated in the clinical setting...

I mean, of all the people I know to be depressed, 9 out of 10 are depressed because of extremely stressful lifestyles, bad living conditions, too little or too much free time in their hands, boredom, bad relationships, etc.

What I mean to say is that it is usually an unbalanced lifestyle that creates depression.

Whether the neurochemical changes lead to it or are a result of it, is a chicken or the egg dilemma.

The fact is, that most people can overcome it without medication, by doing some positive changes in their lives.

Starting by eating better, sleeping better, exercising, finding hobbies and interests, socializing and/or breaking away from rotten relationships, and above all, keeping themselves busy and creative at all times.

It is really nasty that doctors prescribe anti-depressants so easily to people, instead of giving them some constructive advice.

My approach is holistic, I believe the mind and the body are a continuum, and one needs to find equilibrium in life in order to be happy and healthy.

When you see a person who is in terrible stress, leading a very unhappy life and making all the wrong choices, what good would the medication do if this person does not change his/her overall outlook in life?

It's only a painkiller in my eyes, but it leaves the "cancer" intact underneath.

[Anthropos]

This is why I love travelling North in the winter, the colder the better... I can't get enough of snow, it calms me down and soothes my soul... :)

Seriously, this extended autumn period in Greece is nerve breaking, because lately we've been having about 6 months of summer and 6 months of autumn.

Now, asides from the weather: for me depression is tied to real life circumstances, not weather and sunlight. I don't take anything for that; I know that in order to get out of it, I need to overcome the obstacles in my life that are causing me to be depressed.

That's what winter is where I am as well, the difference being that it is much longer and darker and also colder (between 0 and 10 degrees celsius) than where you live. Only very rarely have we seen any snow here for many years now, and if we get any, it turns into a greybrown sludge in no time. (Stockholm has a colder climate than the western part of Sweden, by the way.)

In the end, I think Eldritch's advice is the best: to 'hibernate happily', because everyone is affected by it.

[Allenson]

When it has been snowing a lot I usually don't feel down as I am just too amazed with the fact that we finally have a real winter and I spend a lot of time outside walking in the forest.

Snow is wonderful stuff and I am thankful that we have a snowpack here, usually the whole winter long. It allows for physical activity & recreation (skiing, snow shoeing, ice skating, etc.). Otherwise, I might go bananas with just a cloudy, damp & cool winter with no snow cover.

[Inese]

Don't worry, fluoxetin only ruins your kidneys if you take it for a longer period of time, you'll always be tired, gain weight, can't work a proper job where you interact with machines, can't drive a car...

Hm i was tired before taking medicine in my bad phases too. I dont think that depression and strong feelings of tiredness are two different things! And hello? You said you wanted that i gain weight?? :rolleyes: I am not gaining weight after i started to take the pills, and for your information i go on the balance every two days.



How about a total change of lifestyle instead?
But my liftstyle is not the reason i feel depressed in my bad phases. You know, i think my lifestyle is okay, i have some good friends and the best parents on the world and i am in a good enviroment now!! :) I like what i eat and what i drink , my music, my movies and i have time for myself to dream and do some sport and i like my room ---- i need all of this it keeps me alive!!
I am not a person like you, you go out in the world and leave your old life behind and explore new things and ideas like you say but i am connected with my heart and mind to my lifestyle and the people who are important to me. I feel weak alone and i need strong connections to good people i love and i would die for them! Yes as a exemple i would die for my dad or my mum, i know it is not the right order but i would do it in a emergency situation i really could not life with a loss of my parents and when i only think about the possibility i get panic


Perhaps your doctor and parents are depressing assholes? My doctor 'persuaded' me to take Prozac when I was exactly your age (that is what it is called in UK-merica)

I would take their diagnosis of 'manic depression' and ram up their ass, and ask my parents for more pocket-money and a nice winter break to Canary Islands. Find the creative you.
You have absolut no right to call the important people of my life "assholes " and you dont know them and what they did and do for me! :mad: I was writing some month back about it, my diagnosis bipolar and postraumatic stress disorder is some years old i received them after we came to Germany okay?!
Yes i was more than 3 years not on any medicaments and i dont wanted to take them. I was doing what you tell me i should do: Not taking pills! But it has not helped me and i think it is not a bad idea to try medicine now. If it helps me its good and if nothing changes it is the same as before, i lose nothing and i can tell that i feel a little bit better than in October right now

Please....i can understand that you want to help me and i thank you but i am not you and i have other problems :embarrassed I have no asperger syndrome and you are not bipolar and you have no postraumatic disorder. You think there are souls and i think the soul is part of the brain

[Anthropos]

You think there are souls and i think the soul is part of the brain

In other words, you believe that a person's mental life, her thoughts etc, can be disected by autopsy; that if you open the skull and examine the brain, you will find 'mental matter', thoughts etc there?

[Osweo]

In other words, you believe that a person's mental life, her thoughts etc, can be disected by autopsy; that if you open the skull and examine the brain, you will find 'mental matter', thoughts etc there?

fldKHxL83Qw

[Inese]

In other words, you believe that a person's mental life, her thoughts etc, can be disected by autopsy; that if you open the skull and examine the brain, you will find 'mental matter', thoughts etc there?
I dont know much about it but thoughts are electical proceses in the brain right??:confused: Some informations are saved in a brain but many things get lost after the brain activity is over. Please dont think i am naive but i think it is like a computer drive ---- very many unbelieveable things are going on and are saved on it but if there is no electricity you have only a useless part of metal! A hard disk has no soul but it is useless and not readable without other computer parts and electricity and a brain is useless without the body. But a soul like a ghost?? Hm no i dont believe in it sorry:embarrassed

[Anthropos]

I dont know much about it but thoughts are electical proceses in the brain right??:confused: Some informations are saved in a brain but many things get lost after the brain activity is over. Please dont think i am naive but i think it is like a computer drive ---- very many unbelieveable things are going on and are saved on it but if there is no electricity you have only a useless part of metal! A hard disk has no soul but it is useless and not readable without other computer parts and electricity and a brain is useless without the body. But a soul like a ghost?? Hm no i dont believe in it sorry:embarrassed

The comparison with a hard drive is not valid, because there is nothing in it corresponding to mental processes. Not even the part about electricity is in any way comparable, because the electricity that the human body produces is not the thoughts, and, as we all can see, the hard drive does not produce electricity, but needs it to work. The suggested brain-body dichotomy also doesn't solve the problem. In short, I find that your explanation makes no sense.

[Inese]

In short, I find that your explanation makes no sense.
Okay and what makes sense in your view? :confused: People always say that other ideas are bad but they should write what they think too

[Anthropos]

Okay and what makes sense in your view? :confused: People always say that other ideas are bad but they should write what they think too

It is not meant that way, Inese. :) I also struggle with these questions, and I have only sympathy for those who dare do the same. My conclusions are that the rationalistic explanations of mental processes do not make any sense whatever, and that it is much more rational, in fact, to take the mental at face value, and to accept that there is such a thing as a mental plane of reality; that the mental plane is not just a byproduct of the corporeal.

[Jamt]

The comparison with a hard drive is not valid, because there is nothing in it corresponding to mental processes. Not even the part about electricity is in any way comparable, because the electricity that the human body produces is not the thoughts, and, as we all can see, the hard drive does not produce electricity, but needs it to work. The suggested brain-body dichotomy also doesn't solve the problem. In short, I find that your explanation makes no sense.


It makes sense to Inese. I don’t think she explained her view to convince you. Besides that view on the mind is shared by a lot of people including most doctors, so it must make some kind of sense.

[Anthropos]

It makes sense to Inese. I don’t think she explained her view to convince you. Besides that view on the mind is shared by a lot of people including most doctors, so it must make some kind of sense.

This is an argument to the authority, and it adds nothing new to the discussion. Authority, as I'm sure you know, can be wrong. In this case, if you really think that it makes sense, then you should be able to explain away the obvious shortcomings of that model.

[Rusalka]

In other words, you believe that a person's mental life, her thoughts etc, can be disected by autopsy; that if you open the skull and examine the brain, you will find 'mental matter', thoughts etc there?

Pass me the scalpel, nurse. We're about to extract the pineal gland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland)!

[Cato]

Laugh a lot or get smashed a lot.

[Aemma]

I´m like WTF reading this thread.
People on prozac, therapy, special diets,vitamins ... shit it´s just winter not the IIWW :p

You live in Spain...you wouldn't understand. It may as well be WWII :P

[Fred]

SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) is a recognised mental health problem, particularly in northern populations that are deprived of natural daylight. There are SAD lamps that can be bought, research-based evidence shows that it can help.

However, note the animals during winter who hibernate - they prepare for spring and the new beginning it offers. So you could always go to the gymn and build that summer body. This generates happy hormones and more energy.

Also, think of the things winter is good for. Cosy nights in front of a blazing fire, hot cocoa, Christmas etc.Sorry Trog, but I take the Scientologist position on this--and inviting all sorts of ridicule because I don't know what that is exactly. :)


I drink milk, it contains Vitamin D. Northern Europeans have a serious lack of vitamin D during winter and that causes depression. Thus drinking milk helps a lot. I also eat fish, which contains Vitamin D. Vitamin D is very important for the body.

Deficiency of vitamin D is the main problem for Northern Europeans, which causes depression and several other problems.RusViking used to claim that Northerners were so healthy because of their cheesemaking culture, but that's relatively underdeveloped outside of the British Isles, compared to the Mediterranean and Alpine countries...All vodka countries are less likely to be cheese-prone, for some reason.


Head down I-95 to RI, they're called 'massage parlors' and indoor sales are legal there :thumb001:Hey man, don't embarrass me with the truth! ;)


Winters can be long, cold & dark here, no doubt about it.

I find the best remedy is to set one's internal clock with the available natural light. In other words, get up with the light, spend as much time as possible outside, stay active--skiing, hiking, walking, working (physical) and retire to the warm house when darkness sets in.

Truth be told, I don't have the time in the winter to suffer from "SAD". The daylight is short enough as it as to be bogged down by the blues--wood to haul, a woodstove to run (24/7), snow to plow & shovel and deep powder to ski in. ;)

There may very well be a genetic component to seasonal blues--but I have two things to say on this: 1. north Europids who still live in their native climate should be plenty equiped to handle shorter daylengths and 2. much of 'SAD' I truly believe is brought on by the modern lifestyle. Indoor inactivity and missing much of the most rejuvenative time of day (morning) due to late sleeping are sure ways to bring on seasonal issues, me thinks.I have taken naps in snow caves and under snow-capped pines; I can see rather well on a winter night, although most nights are not any problem whatsoever.


I do not need to.

I find cold weather, overcast skies, and the biting crisp air of winter invigorating.Yes, most of us from out there do.:)I love the beauty of a winter's full moon halo, with snow on the ground!


Pass me the scalpel, nurse. We're about to extract the pineal gland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland)!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo

[Amarantine]

Mens sana in corpore sano :thumb001:

Labor omnia vincit :)

[Fortis in Arduis]

But my liftstyle is not the reason i feel depressed in my bad phases. You know, i think my lifestyle is okay, i have some good friends and the best parents on the world and i am in a good enviroment now!! :) I like what i eat and what i drink , my music, my movies and i have time for myself to dream and do some sport and i like my room ---- i need all of this it keeps me alive!!

On topic: Comfort is very important, especially at this time of year.


I am not a person like you, you go out in the world and leave your old life behind and explore new things and ideas like you say but i am connected with my heart and mind to my lifestyle and the people who are important to me.

Ah, but not connected to nor identified with your soul, which is you.


I feel weak alone and i need strong connections to good people i love and i would die for them! Yes as a exemple i would die for my dad or my mum, i know it is not the right order but i would do it in a emergency situation i really could not life with a loss of my parents and when i only think about the possibility i get panic

Identification with your soul would dissolve the attachments that bind you, and then you would appreciate, and be loving towards, your loved ones even more.


You have absolut no right to call the important people of my life "assholes " and you dont know them and what they did and do for me! :mad:

I implied that maybe they were, therefore I did not call them 'assholes', but I apologise for having caused offence.


I was writing some month back about it, my diagnosis bipolar and postraumatic stress disorder is some years old i received them after we came to Germany okay?!
Yes i was more than 3 years not on any medicaments and i dont wanted to take them. I was doing what you tell me i should do: Not taking pills! But it has not helped me and i think it is not a bad idea to try medicine now. If it helps me its good and if nothing changes it is the same as before, i lose nothing and i can tell that i feel a little bit better than in October right now


You have been very cautious, but please continue to so, because most of us have had very bad experiences with medications.


Please....i can understand that you want to help me and i thank you but i am not you and i have other problems :embarrassed I have no asperger syndrome and you are not bipolar and you have no postraumatic disorder. You think there are souls and i think the soul is part of the brain

That is the root of the problem. The soul is not part of the brain, it is a separate non-physical entity which is generally located in the brain, in the pineal gland, to be precise, although it, otherwise known as YOU may choose to leave that locus at any time. This also happens when the body dies.

You, the soul, do not die. You are eternal.

You are physically very beautiful (although not my cup of tea) and so your karmic account is probably quite good. Some people are born with no arms and legs and horrible disfigurements.

Nevertheless, how ever beautiful your body may be, the greater beauty is your soul, that tiny jewel, that flame, that spark which never dies, nor ages.

In many cultures this truth is honoured with a decoration:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-12/15/xin_481202151514140182735.jpg

Before anyone says anything retarded: there is nothing in Christian knowledge which contradicts this and such markings and decorations were possibly worn by our ancestors. Certainly, we decorate the face and the head with jewels, symbolic of the eternal, luminous and diamond-like quality of the soul, as we also decorate the heart chakra with significant jewels and pendants.

I know that contouring is tricky, but when you next apply your make-up, why not try to highlight and emphasise that area with a lighter shade, or a highlighting powder, gently blending outwards down the ridge of the nose? It will remind you and others of your real beauty. I could design you an amazing macquillage. I think that you know what I am talking about now.

The contradictions come only from arrogant materialists, especially Marxists.

Inese, I hope that this godly knowledge will help you and others understand and know that you beautiful.

You are a spiritual being, having a human experience.

Identification with your 'nordic' body may bring you misery, as you see your life as finite, your progression through it as a downward spiral, even if you have beautiful nordic children, and it may compound your anxiety because you will fear mortality.

Identification with your soul will being you unlimited happiness, unlimited peace, unlimited joy and will enable you and others to love and appreciate the real you.

Northern people are generally quite spiritual, which is why we have so much material wealth, and why so many evil souls have tried to infect our society with the disease of materialism.

I am not very soul-conscious.

I take drugs, I indulge my senses a lot, and I indulge in the arrogance of the body, but know this:

So does everyone else, even the Pope, the Presbyterian minister, and the Dalai Lama. We are all trapped in delusion, we just have to remind ourselves again and again that we are souls.

To mitigate my failings, I am also quite militant, anti-Marxist, and am liable to become a bit of a cunt when I see evil people going around upsetting beautiful souls by spreading vicious lies! Now is the time to be militant against materialist demagogues. What a fucking liberty!!!

If I have not convinced you of your beauty, then I hope that, one day, you will meet someone who will. You never know, that might be God himself!

This truth is self-evident anyway, because false identification with the body causes diseases, genocides, ugliness, misfortune, physical and mental anguish and eventually, the death of the body, and the exponents of materialist lies are often ghoulish and hideous to look at, especially lesbian feminist Marxist 'Jewesses'.

I met this one in the flesh, and was instrumental in proposing her for her elegant entree onto the Kahanist Jewish S.H.I.T. List [Self-Hating or Israel Threatening]:

http://www.masada2000.org/Esther-Sassaman.jpghttp://www.masada2000.org/Esther-Sassaman-in-black.jpg


As one might expect(torate), whenever there's a "Freedom for Palestine" rally, there would are smirking, beady-eyed Arab/Muslims, liberal white sluts and pimps and the obligatory self-hating Jewish lesbian-types who always seem to organize these things. Enter Esther Sassaman!
Newly carrot-topped Esther Sassaman is a Marxist freelance journalist operating out of the Cleveland, Ohio area. She is also a Palestine solidarity activist.
Although a Jew, she sings in a Baptist gospel choir. We don't know whether to laugh at, pity or fear such a pathetic creature.

http://www.masada2000.org/list-S.html

Esther, if you are reading this, you are an ugly disgrace. I suspect that you were brought up with every privilege and a loving caring and supportive family who you rejected. You will lose and we will win because God and the truth are on our side and you will face terrible punishment for what you are doing to Israel and the nations of the world.

We all live ignorant lives, Popes, yogis, and buddhas, but let us all try not to accelerate entropy and make greater fools of ourselves.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

We don't have winter here,

but wait! - I love the winter, and it is not winter that makes me sad but the lack of it thereof. ;)
I miss winter too,we have the occasional hail storm which ,if you are on the road,blends your car well in with the pothole roads here.
Lots of fierce thunderstorms though and that is nice for me,not so nice for the insurance companies.
Xmas is fun,dressed up Xmas trees,kids around the tree in their "blote bast" and the hose full blast to keep cool.
And then the presents you get. A tie(shiiit for what),a woolen shirt, after shave,doggie bones for the dogs(lucky bastards).
Oh,then dinner,hot as hell, in the sweltering evening sweat pouring down you attack a piece of steak 'fresh' from the grill.

[QUOTE}Now, asides from the weather: for me depression is tied to real life circumstances, not weather and sunlight. I don't take anything for that; I know that in order to get out of it, I need to overcome the obstacles in my life that are causing me to be depressed.[/QUOTE]

Obstacles were not my problems,I normally shove it to a friend or neighbour or my wall- I have knuckles to show for.:)
I get depressed when nothing bad happens.I go out into the world creating havoc in shopping malls or on the road or at home(shifting furniture or cut down trees).

[Svipdag]

From the age of 6 to sometime in my 60's, I was plagued by anxiety. I was fretful and perpetually worried as a child, an adolescent (especially), a young adult, and a mature adult. Finally, my physician recommended that I take Prozac.

It made me very ill. It gave me hot flashes and spells of severe vertigo. As soon as I told him about it he told me to stop taking it and throw away whatever I had left. He prescribed Paxil instead. My lifelong anxiety became a bad memory.

Unfortunately, Paxil tends to encourage fluid retention with which I had a problem already. He changed my prescription to Effexor which is the same as Paxil except that it does not encourage fluid retention. It has proved very effective.

Having spent a lifetime fretting, dithering, and worrying, I am grateful to medical science for providing relief from the perpetual anxiety which had made me so miserable since early childhood. Though Prozac, Paxil, and Effexor are anti-depressants relieving anxiety is a collateral benefit, almost a side-effect.

For the past ~20 years that I have been on medication for anxiety, I have been vastly happier than I had ever been during the major part of my life.

[LoneWolf]

perhaps I'll buy some milk