Is Haplogroup I-M170 a white haplogroup

[Bobby Martnen]

Cause i took a genetic test and that's my haplogroup.

Does anyone know if this is a white haplogroup?

[lei.talk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170
*

[Loki]

Common in Bosnia & Herzegovina and Scandinavia, it is probably proto-Germanic. They suggest Gravettian (Upper Paleolithic).

[Smeagol]

I'm not sure what a White haplogroup is. Haplogroups really don't say anything about you racially.

[Loki]

I'm not sure what a White haplogroup is. Haplogroups really don't say anything about you racially.

Indeed. In a certain part of sub-Saharan Africa R1b is dominant.

[Longbowman]

Indeed. In a certain part of sub-Saharan Africa R1b is dominant.

Well the clades are identifiable - usually. Some have myriad clusters (my YDNA can be European, European Jewish, or (less likely) Arabic). Plus your YDNA is about 1% of your DNA. Which is a notable amount. Your mtDNA says nothing about you (15,000 base pairs - 0.00002% of your 3.2 billion).

[lei.talk]

Horatio (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?7661-Smeagol&tab=aboutme#aboutme) http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?109712-Is-Haplogroup-I-M170-a-white-haplogroup&p=2279728&viewfull=1#post2279728) Haplogroups really don't say anything about you racially.

one might easily draw that conclusion
from the information provided by research.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/World_Map_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroups.png
please, click-on image and use magnifier
*

[Longbowman]

Horatio (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?7661-Smeagol&tab=aboutme#aboutme) http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?109712-Is-Haplogroup-I-M170-a-white-haplogroup&p=2279728&viewfull=1#post2279728) Haplogroups really don't say anything about you racially.

one might easily draw that conclusion
from the information provided by research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/World_Map_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroups.png


Just from a brief glance, Doggerland is in the North Sea, not the Atlantic.

The map is also hugely oversimplified.

[lei.talk]

Longbowman (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?10154-Longbowman&tab=aboutme#aboutme) http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?109712-Is-Haplogroup-I-M170-a-white-haplogroup&p=2279787&viewfull=1#post2279787) Doggerland is in the North Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland), not the Atlantic. The map is also hugely oversimplified.

of course it is.

a totality of information
can not be presented nor grasped
in a single image. it is a starting point for a beginner.
*

[Longbowman]

Longbowman (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?10154-Longbowman&tab=aboutme#aboutme) http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?109712-Is-Haplogroup-I-M170-a-white-haplogroup&p=2279787&viewfull=1#post2279787) Doggerland is in the North Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland), not the Atlantic. The map is also hugely oversimplified.

of course it is.

a totality of information
can not be presented nor grasped
in a single image. it is a starting point for a beginner.

Mea culpa.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The original guy who had the group was either white or not...and he almost certainly was white so yes, it's white.

Sounds like smeagol has one of those sketchier y-dnas like e1b.

[Smeagol]

Sounds like smeagol has one of those sketchier y-dnas like e1b.

:p Nope.

[Longbowman]

E1b1b brought you agriculture and civilization. Next to I it's also the most ancient in Europe. Be grateful, fools :P

No, but of course it's a tiny fraction of your DNA. Doubtless we all have people who've been I, R, and E1b1b in our family trees.

Smeagol and Melonhead, what're your Y-DNA clades?

[Loki]

Sounds like smeagol has one of those sketchier y-dnas like e1b.

lol

Sketchy? :laugh:

The bearers of E1b introduced civilization to Egypt. They were ubermenschen.

[Longbowman]

lol

Sketchy? :laugh:

The bearers of E1b introduced civilization to Egypt. They were ubermenschen.

Egypt, Europe...the entire world, Loki.

Let us not bother ourselves with this jealous nattering from the Asiatic Rs and the barbaric Is.

[Smeagol]

Smeagol and Melonhead, what're your Y-DNA clades?

R1a.

[Longbowman]

R1a.

Pure R1a?

So your dad's the Russian/Russian-Jew?

[Smeagol]

Pure R1a?

So your dad's the Russian/Russian-Jew?

My dad's mother was just Russian, his father was technically a Jew, but he had ethnic Russian blood as well.

[Longbowman]

My dad's mother was just Russian, his father was technically a Jew, but he had ethnic Russian blood as well.

Well R1a is pretty common in Jews. Not J common, but common. ~8-13%.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

E1b1b brought you agriculture and civilization.

Looks less likely than it used to, since farming came to south greece long before it came to central europe, and much sooner.


Next to I it's also the most ancient in Europe. Be grateful, fools :P

I doubt I is most ancient in europe, too. Regardless it can't be any older than J or K because they all stem from IJK. Probably from greece.


No, but of course it's a tiny fraction of your DNA. Doubtless we all have people who've been I, R, and E1b1b in our family trees.

If your ancestors lived in small town white european areas until recently you probably are mostly r1b and r1b, not even necessarily any I.



Smeagol and Melonhead, what're your Y-DNA clades?

I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say R1a.

[Smeagol]

Well R1a is pretty common in Jews. Not J common, but common. ~8-13%.

Yes, but it's ultimate origin is either Eastern Europe, or Central Asia.

[Loki]

Looks less likely than it used to, since farming came to south greece long before it came to central europe, and much sooner.


It was in Egypt before it was in Greece. Greece owes Egypt a lot. Bearers of E1b1b in both cases.

What were the Phoenicians, I wonder? Probably also borrowed from Egypt.

[Longbowman]

Looks less likely than it used to, since farming came to south greece long before it came to central europe, and much sooner.

I doubt I is most ancient in europe, too. Regardless it can't be any older than J or K because they all stem from IJK. Probably from greece.

If your ancestors lived in small town white european areas until recently you probably are mostly r1b and r1b, not even necessarily any I.

I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say R1a.

Sorry but this is all incorrect.

I probably did enter Europe through Greece. It got here first. It wins.

Farming came to Greece at the same time E1b1b appears there. Hence the supposition that E1b1b (possibly with some help from J2 and G) brought agriculture. Agriculture seems to have spread with E1b1b which is found at low levels throughout Europe and high levels in the Balkans.

You're wrong about the small towns thing. I is commoner in small towns here than is R.

Yes, as a European you're likely to be R. If not R, then I; if not I, then E1b1b.

[Loki]

Yes, but it's ultimate origin is either Eastern Europe, or Central Asia.

Or India.

[Longbowman]

Yes, but it's ultimate origin is either Eastern Europe, or Central Asia.

Obviously. The Jews aren't a purely Levantine race. They're primarily European if you believe mainstream genetic studies.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Well R1a is pretty common in Jews. Not J common, but common. ~8-13%.

I am a J here of J2 clade.

[Longbowman]

I am a J here of J2 clade.

Commiserations. We can't all be E1b1b.

Very Eastern Mediterranean!

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It was in Egypt before it was in Greece. Greece owes Egypt a lot. Bearers of E1b1b in both cases.

What were the Phoenicians, I wonder? Probably also borrowed from Egypt.

No...that's not true at all. Egypt is much later than the mycenaen greeks, and they were not even the first greek culture. Greece had farming 7500 years ago according to latest archaeology.

Egypt is really pretty new as far as ancient civilizations go. Pyramids are about 4k years old and that is VERY new.

Megalithic period is way, way older than egypt and in many ways probably more advanced. Malta, Ireland, North Africa, France, mycenaean greece (and sunken off the coast of egypt, as well). All these places built stuff that puts the pyramids to shame in many respects, both in overall size and in the size of individual blocks.

There's signs of ancient farming by the natufians 12k years ago in modern day israel and they were probably e1b, though. But there's also sign of possible farming 14k years ago in anatolia, and 12K years ago in china. Looks more and more like Egyptian civilization actually got started in north africa right as the sahara was drying up and becoming a desert again. So I would not be sure that they were e1b originally at all (which probably originates in levant or somewhere even further into eurasia).

E1b is definitely not originally a "black" clade as it's only recently darkened up, but it's definitely not white in the sense we'd think of it, probably more "caucasoid". Of course if your ancestors lived in a black or white area long enough that's what you will end up.

[Loki]

E1b is definitely not originally a "black" clade as it's only recently darkened up, but it's definitely not white in the sense we'd think of it, probably more "caucasoid". Of course if your ancestors lived in a black or white area long enough that's what you will end up.

Yeah, and none of our ancestors were "white" if you go back far enough. Looked probably Khoisanid.

[Longbowman]

No...that's not true at all. Egypt is much later than the mycenaen greeks, and they were not even the first greek culture. Greece had farming 7500 years ago according to latest archaeology.

Egypt is really pretty new as far as ancient civilizations go. Pyramids are about 4k years old and that is VERY new.

Megalithic period is way, way older than egypt and in many ways probably more advanced. Malta, Ireland, North Africa, France, mycenaean greece (and sunken off the coast of egypt, as well). All these places built stuff that puts the pyramids to shame in many respects, both in overall size and in the size of individual blocks.

There's signs of ancient farming by the natufians 12k years ago in modern day israel and they were probably e1b, though. But there's also sign of possible farming 14k years ago in anatolia, and 12K years ago in china. Looks more and more like Egyptian civilization actually got started in north africa right as the sahara was drying up and becoming a desert again. So I would not be sure that they were e1b originally at all (which probably originates in levant or somewhere even further into eurasia).

E1b is definitely not originally a "black" clade as it's only recently darkened up, but it's definitely not white in the sense we'd think of it, probably more "caucasoid". Of course if your ancestors lived in a black or white area long enough that's what you will end up.

E1b is originally African. Only certain northern clades are white or Caucasian.

The sunken ruins off Egypt's coast are ancient Egyptian - these ruins have simply been claimed by shifting coastlines.

As for the rest, yes, farming started out a few thousand years before Europe in a couple of places. However, the wisdom on the subject is when it arrived in Europe around 5,500BC it came to the Balkans via Anatolia via E1b1b and possibly J and G, too. E1b1b managed to establish itself across Europe spreading agriculture.

[Smeagol]

It was in Egypt before it was in Greece. Greece owes Egypt a lot. Bearers of E1b1b in both cases.

E1b1b probably came to Greece before the beginning of ancient Egyptian civilization. In reality, Egyptians didn't really influence Greeks much.


What were the Phoenicians, I wonder? Probably also borrowed from Egypt.

Phoenicians I guess were close to ancient Israelites.

[Loki]

It is interesting that civilization developed independently in China as well roughly at this time.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

No...that's not true at all. Egypt is much later than the mycenaen greeks, and they were not even the first greek culture. Greece had farming 7500 years ago according to latest archaeology.

Egypt is really pretty new as far as ancient civilizations go. Pyramids are about 4k years old and that is VERY new.

Megalithic period is way, way older than egypt and in many ways probably more advanced. Malta, Ireland, North Africa, France, mycenaean greece (and sunken off the coast of egypt, as well). All these places built stuff that puts the pyramids to shame in many respects, both in overall size and in the size of individual blocks.

There's signs of ancient farming by the natufians 12k years ago in modern day israel and they were probably e1b, though. But there's also sign of possible farming 14k years ago in anatolia, and 12K years ago in china. Looks more and more like Egyptian civilization actually got started in north africa right as the sahara was drying up and becoming a desert again. So I would not be sure that they were e1b originally at all (which probably originates in levant or somewhere even further into eurasia).

E1b is definitely not originally a "black" clade as it's only recently darkened up, but it's definitely not white in the sense we'd think of it, probably more "caucasoid". Of course if your ancestors lived in a black or white area long enough that's what you will end up.

No, Egypt is not much later than Mycenaean Greeks.

I was going to correct some of the rest but just pointing out the above should allow people if they didn't know already be aware you're dumb as shit. You can't even get something very basic right, as in which civilization is older.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

E1b1b probably came to Greece before the beginning of ancient Egyptian civilization. In reality, Egyptians didn't really influence Greeks much.



Phoenicians I guess were close to ancient Israelites.

Yar, agree on both counts.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?104982-Farming-came-to-greece-from-the-sea&p=2279942#post2279942

Actually it was 9k years ago in greece. That's the oldest continuous farming known except for south china.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

No, Egypt is not much later than Mycenaean Greeks.

I was going to correct some of the rest but just pointing out the above should allow people if they didn't know already be aware you're dumb as shit. You can't even get something very basic right, as in which civilization is older.

Earliest farming in egypt: 7k years ago.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/02/080211-egypt-farming.html

Earliest farming in greece, over 9k years ago:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/12/early-7th-millennium-bc-initial.html

You really are an amazing shit for brains, you worthless fuck.

Actually I guess I should not have said mycenaean greek but aegean and pre agean greek...whatever. Mycenaean greek is a continuation of the same thing, whereas athenian greece is not.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

E1b1b probably came to Greece before the beginning of ancient Egyptian civilization. In reality, Egyptians didn't really influence Greeks much.

Phoenicians I guess were close to ancient Israelites.

E1b is not necessarily anything to do with either originally. The greeks themselves talk about j2 being their origin but that is doubtful. It's actually pretty clear that e1b came with the athenian greeks. It hasn't been there all along, or it would be spread through the whole balkans evenly which it isn't.

The neolithic farmers that came to central europe are NOT related to the greeks, they come thousands of years later and from another direction. They are probably not related to egyptians either.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

It is interesting that civilization developed independently in China as well roughly at this time.

http://courtneyhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/aliens-history-channel-guyradio-geeks-and-beats-podcast-ddutbncu.jpg

All kidding aside I think it was aliens.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Earliest farming in egypt: 7k years ago.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/02/080211-egypt-farming.html

Earliest farming in greece, over 9k years ago:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/12/early-7th-millennium-bc-initial.html

You really are an amazing shit for brains, you worthless fuck.

Actually I guess I should not have said mycenaean greek but aegean and pre agean greek...whatever. Mycenaean greek is a continuation of the same thing, whereas athenian greece is not.

Where did I say anything about farming? You really got me on something I didn't comment on at all; good job. Should we throw it up to your reading disability?

I only spoke of your comment about Mycenaen Greek civilization being older than Egypt comment. Even you agree with me after a quick google search I was right but instead of acknowledging I'm right you pretend I said something I didn't.

Tell me again I have shit fr brains, while "correcting me" on something I didn't say.

Oh yes, Egypt is such a young civilization, lolz.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

E1b is originally African. Only certain northern clades are white or Caucasian.

It's not likely to be african in origin, its brother clade is in india and it didn't make it to SSA until historic times FFS....



The sunken ruins off Egypt's coast are ancient Egyptian - these ruins have simply been claimed by shifting coastlines.

It's part of an ancient society that's completely unrelated to the pyramid builders and doesn't center in Egypt and is also caucasoid....




As for the rest, yes, farming started out a few thousand years before Europe in a couple of places. However, the wisdom on the subject is when it arrived in Europe around 5,500BC it came to the Balkans via Anatolia via E1b1b and possibly J and G, too. E1b1b managed to establish itself across Europe spreading agriculture.

No, that is wrong on many counts. J was already in europe, and most of the neolithic farmers spreading into europe were G. E1B's role is not that clear but it's now clear that even if it were neolithic farmers, the ones coming into europe over land from the east are not related to the ones in the balkans which came much earlier....

[KidMulat]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?104982-Farming-came-to-greece-from-the-sea&p=2279942#post2279942

Actually it was 9k years ago in greece. That's the oldest continuous farming known except for south china.

Papua New Guinea holds that title at around 10,000 years

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Papua New Guinea holds that title at around 10,000 years

Is this the farming which no one but you recognizes as actual farming?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0623_030623_kukagriculture.html

Hmm, looks like they found residue of banana and tubers on tools. I am not sure that counts as solid evidence of farming. If it does, that means neanderthals were farmers.

But it's still interesting I guess. At least it's not the thing with acorns again.

[KidMulat]

Is this the farming which no one but you recognizes as actual farming?

Lol
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0623_030623_kukagriculture.html

Its been established for some time.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Lol
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0623_030623_kukagriculture.html

Its been established for some time.

Like I said, if that's enough evidence, neanderthals invented farming 50k years ago.

[KidMulat]

Like I said, if that's enough evidence, neanderthals invented farming 50k years ago.

Lol okay the equivalent to aboriculture and vegiculture found in Paleolithic Korea and Japan; the oldest example I know of people actually bring plants with them to grow would be 60k Australians who brought the Baobab

http://www.uq.edu.au/nuq/jack/Boab%20Origins.html

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Paleolithic Siberian from Mal'ta [1 R*]
Mesolithic Europeans from Luxembourg and Sweden [2 I2a1b, 1 I2, 2 I]
Neolithic Spain [5 G2a, 1 E-V13]
Neolithic Ötzi from the Alps [G2a4]
Prehistoric South Siberians from Krasnoyarsk and here [10 R1a1, 1 C(xC3)]
Neolithic southwestern France from Treilles [20 G2a, 2 I2a]
Neolithic Megalithic France from la Pierre Fritte [2 I2a1]
Neolithic Bell Beaker from Kromsdorf Germany [2 R1b]
Prehistoric Paleo-Eskimo from Greenland [1 Q1a]
Neolithic Corded Ware Germans [3 related R1a]
Bronze Age Lichtenstein Cave in Germany [estimated presence I1b2*, R1a1, R1b1c]
Ancient Mongolian Xiongnu [1 R1a1]
New Kingdom Egyptian pharaoh Ramesses III [1 E1b1a]
Aboriginals from Canary Islands [E-M78, E-M81, J-M267, E-M33, I-M170, K-M9, P-M45, R-M269]
Late Antique Basques [4 I, 2 R1b3d, 19 R1(xR1a1), 2 R-M173]


It's funny everyone always just parrots that E1b and J are neolithic farmer DNA. They just pull that out of thin air. Well, this is every y-dna study done for neolithic (and some for other areas).

Since there's both I and J in aboriginal canary islanders we can rule out the idea it came from neolithic farmers, especially since they are brother clades.

So where are they, exactly? We have ZERO J neolithic farmers. We have just one E-v13, which is among a bunch of G - since this is no doubt a seafaring med. culture this could easily be a slave.

We have quite a bit of I among neolithic farmers, though. So what does that say about any of this...? They could easily be the ones who invented farming in balkans before the G men started to arrive from the east. Especially since I seems to radiate out of the area where first known bronze tools have been recently found.

It's funny that there's so many giant assumptions based on where things are today and some intense wishful thinking brought on by nationalistic fantasies.

[Artek]

Common in Bosnia & Herzegovina and Scandinavia, it is probably proto-Germanic. They suggest Gravettian (Upper Paleolithic).
How can be proto-Germanic since it predates the existence of this liguistic group by many millenias?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

How can be proto-Germanic since it predates the existence of this liguistic group by many millenias?

They are saying it's what germans were before they learned german, but I don't think that is a very good conclusion. It mainly shows they don't really know history that well, a recurring theme for the people doing the genetic part of archaeology.

[KidMulat]

It's funny everyone always just parrots that E1b and J are neolithic farmer DNA. They just pull that out of thin air. Well, this is every y-dna study done for neolithic (and some for other areas).

Since there's both I and J in aboriginal canary islanders we can rule out the idea it came from neolithic farmers, especially since they are brother clades.

So where are they, exactly? We have ZERO J neolithic farmers. We have just one E-v13, which is among a bunch of G - since this is no doubt a seafaring med. culture this could easily be a slave.

We have quite a bit of I among neolithic farmers, though. So what does that say about any of this...? They could easily be the ones who invented farming in balkans before the G men started to arrive from the east. Especially since I seems to radiate out of the area where first known bronze tools have been recently found.

It's funny that there's so many giant assumptions based on where things are today and some intense wishful thinking brought on by nationalistic fantasies.

Canarians are post Wet Period Saharan; they were farmers who sailed out there.

Gofio is an old meal prepared with cultivated barley and they had domesticated goats.

[Loki]

How can be proto-Germanic since it predates the existence of this liguistic group by many millenias?

Proto because exactly it's before the emergence of Germanic. But the current bearers in the Balkan bear closer resemblance to Scandinavians than to, say, Poles and Russians. There is a close relation between I in the Balkan and Scandinavia. It predates Germanic but is from the same source stock. Upper Paleolithic.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Lol okay the equivalent to aboriculture and vegiculture found in Paleolithic Korea and Japan; the oldest example I know of people actually bring plants with them to grow would be 60k Australians who brought the Baobab

http://www.uq.edu.au/nuq/jack/Boab%20Origins.html

You said 10k years ago, the article says 7k years before there's anything but some remnants of tubers on tools.

I am not trying to belittle their accomplishments but real farming that far back would be a big deal. Maybe they did have some by then, but I don't think that's enough to go by and from other sites and reactions to them they expect more than that.

[Gaston]

The Loschbour man from Luxembourg had y-dna I (I2) and had darker skin according to his genotype for SLC24A5 and SLC45A5, unlike modern Europeans.

[KidMulat]

You said 10k years ago, the article says 7k years before there's anything but some remnants of tubers on tools.

I am not trying to belittle their accomplishments but real farming that far back would be a big deal. Maybe they did have some by then, but I don't think that's enough to go by and from other sites and reactions to them they expect more than that.

7k? No the article I put up says 10k and it is "real farming" as it extended across Oceania and into South India leaving behind the Banana, Taro and Sugarcane two of the three being quite a big deal.

[Artek]

They are saying it's what germans were before they learned german
In such case, Lithuanians are autosomally-wise more Germanic than Germanics themselves ;D

but I don't think that is a very good conclusion. It mainly shows they don't really know history that well, a recurring theme for the people doing the genetic part of archaeology.
I think a generalisation may be necessary in some cases(if you learn basics) but goddamit, when the same people repeat the same for years, it becomes annoying.

[Artek]

Proto because exactly it's before the emergence of Germanic. But the current bearers in the Balkan bear closer resemblance to Scandinavians than to, say, Poles and Russians. There is a close relation between I in the Balkan and Scandinavia. It predates Germanic but is from the same source stock. Upper Paleolithic.
:lol00002:

http://api.ning.com/files/BykvwnNi9LuGNlQaOiBKD1M3EAuP6p1IZ6z5JAn7htWD7gaelW 1UCHAxzz3UjvIuV7Ox-5hSftSOAZV5A2X3PRW8rbAFkeTf/500pxHA_HA_HA_OH_WOW.jpg

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

It's funny everyone always just parrots that E1b and J are neolithic farmer DNA. They just pull that out of thin air. Well, this is every y-dna study done for neolithic (and some for other areas).

Since there's both I and J in aboriginal canary islanders we can rule out the idea it came from neolithic farmers, especially since they are brother clades.

So where are they, exactly? We have ZERO J neolithic farmers. We have just one E-v13, which is among a bunch of G - since this is no doubt a seafaring med. culture this could easily be a slave.

We have quite a bit of I among neolithic farmers, though. So what does that say about any of this...? They could easily be the ones who invented farming in balkans before the G men started to arrive from the east. Especially since I seems to radiate out of the area where first known bronze tools have been recently found.

It's funny that there's so many giant assumptions based on where things are today and some intense wishful thinking brought on by nationalistic fantasies.

It's funny that your post has nothing to do with the OP and appears to be a shot at me because you're butthurt that I made you look like a fool in this thread again by 1) pointing out your failure to know basic history when you claimed one civilization is older than another and 2) pointing out you "correcting me" over something I never said makes you look dumb at best and dishonest at worst.

Look, it's quite simple. I always win when we go head to head. The reason is simple: I'm not an idiot. You are a idiot. So simply take your loss and move on.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

7k? No the article I put up says 10k and it is "real farming" as it extended across Oceania and into South India leaving behind the Banana, Taro and Sugarcane two of the three being quite a big deal.

Was this another example of Melonhead's inability to read English, lolz. I haven't read the article but I'll assume it was.

[Longbowman]

[QUOTE]It's not likely to be african in origin, its brother clade is in india and it didn't make it to SSA until historic times FFS....

Nnnno.


It's part of an ancient society that's completely unrelated to the pyramid builders and doesn't center in Egypt and is also caucasoid....


Nnnno.


No, that is wrong on many counts. J was already in europe, and most of the neolithic farmers spreading into europe were G. E1B's role is not that clear but it's now clear that even if it were neolithic farmers, the ones coming into europe over land from the east are not related to the ones in the balkans which came much earlier....
Nnnno.

[Loki]

:lol00002:

http://api.ning.com/files/BykvwnNi9LuGNlQaOiBKD1M3EAuP6p1IZ6z5JAn7htWD7gaelW 1UCHAxzz3UjvIuV7Ox-5hSftSOAZV5A2X3PRW8rbAFkeTf/500pxHA_HA_HA_OH_WOW.jpg

Knew you'd like it :thumb001:

[Jackson]

The Loschbour man from Luxembourg had y-dna I (I2) and had darker skin according to his genotype for SLC24A5 and SLC45A5, unlike modern Europeans.

So it's technically a 'non-white' indigenous European marker. xD

[Longbowman]

So it's technically a 'non-white' indigenous European marker. xD

White =/= European. Once, our ancestors were some shades darker than we today.

[safinator]

The Loschbour man from Luxembourg had y-dna I (I2) and had darker skin according to his genotype for SLC24A5 and SLC45A5, unlike modern Europeans.

Seems Pale0lithic Eur0s were light eyed w0gs.

[Argang]

So it's technically a 'non-white' indigenous European marker. xD

Where da farmer women at?:dev

[Jackson]

White =/= European. Once, our ancestors were some shades darker than we today.

Yep, was the point i was making too.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

[QUOTE=Melonhead;2280461]

Nnnno.



Nnnno.


Nnnno.

What a dumb post....

[Prisoner Of Ice]

In such case, Lithuanians are autosomally-wise more Germanic than Germanics themselves ;D

I think a generalisation may be necessary in some cases(if you learn basics) but goddamit, when the same people repeat the same for years, it becomes annoying.

Pretty much everything anyone has said in here but me is of the same nature. Some lame theorizing that's has no data to back it up that's been repeated so often everyone believes it.

[Longbowman]

What a dumb post....

It rather compliments some of yours, then :rolleyes:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It rather compliments some of yours, then :rolleyes:

NO U.

Also, learn to quote man, no one else has any trouble....

[Longbowman]

NO U.

Also, learn to quote man, no one else has any trouble....

The irony I only made that error because I quoted your post where you made the same error.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The irony I only made that error because I quoted your post where you made the same error.

That's not true my post showed up fine, you do that all the time.

[Longbowman]

That's not true my post showed up fine, you do that all the time.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?109712-Is-Haplogroup-I-M170-a-white-haplogroup&p=2281459&viewfull=1#post2281459

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I just quoted yours which is messed up and didn't bother to fix it, go ahead and look back further.

[Longbowman]

I just quoted yours which is messed up and didn't bother to fix it, go ahead and look back further.

Incorrect, buddy :)

[Jizo]

There is no such thing as white or black haplogroup, there are haplogroups more accociated with white or black people. U can say A and B are black, C and D are yellow, E1a is black, J1,J2,I,R,E1b are white etc.There are 2 meter long Nordic guys which are B and a lot of the black guys in LA and NYC are I1 and R1b!

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

That's not true my post showed up fine, you do that all the time.

lolz... it didn't. You can't do anything right. You're a disaster.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It's not likely to be african in origin, its brother clade is in india and it didn't make it to SSA until historic times FFS....


It's part of an ancient society that's completely unrelated to the pyramid builders and doesn't center in Egypt and is also caucasoid....



No, that is wrong on many counts. J was already in europe, and most of the neolithic farmers spreading into europe were G. E1B's role is not that clear but it's now clear that even if it were neolithic farmers, the ones coming into europe over land from the east are not related to the ones in the balkans which came much earlier....

blah

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I'll solve the mystery for the sub 140 IQ crowd. When you responded to the post above you added an extra end quote tag, meaning when I quote YOUR post it fucks up. Since you do that 8 times a day maybe you should look into your own posting before making stupid complaints on mine.

How many times now have you corrected me on something and been wrong? I waited for faggotty frank to join in too so I could dish out the humiliation he craves so desperately.


blah

blah. See when I do it from myself everything is fine because all my posts were correct. Go back and quote your own post and same thing happens again. Fucking internets, how do they work?

[Longbowman]

I'll solve the mystery for the sub 140 IQ crowd. When you responded to the post above you added an extra end quote tag, meaning when I quote YOUR post it fucks up. Since you do that 8 times a day maybe you should look into your own posting before making stupid complaints on mine.

How many times now have you corrected me on something and been wrong? I waited for faggotty frank to join in too so I could dish out the humiliation he craves so desperately.



blah. See when I do it from myself everything is fine because all my posts were correct. Go back and quote your own post and same thing happens again. Fucking internets, how do they work?

Mate, I linked you to the original post where you screwed up. Also there's no additional 'end quote' tag on any of my posts.

Why so defensive? and homophobic?

[Bobby Martnen]

I'm not sure what a White haplogroup is. Haplogroups really don't say anything about you racially.

Don't tell Rethel that!!! lol

[Rethel]

Don't tell Rethel that!!! lol

Becasue he didn't understand the question, or what?

[Ayman Vasconic]

No, as my avatar shows, based on newest genetic discoveries.

[Wrong]

No, as my avatar shows, based on newest genetic discoveries.
Rare photo of a brown/blackish I-man assimilated by Farmerians, before the IE arrival:

https://i.imgur.com/AjFyQmW.jpg

[Ayman Vasconic]

Rare photo of a brown/blackish I-man assimilated by Farmerians, before the IE arrival:

On what it is based?

[Ayman Vasconic]

No, as my avatar shows, based on newest genetic discoveries.

I made a related thread about TV shows: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?245984-A-Show-Series-Where-Old-European-People-Are-Finally-Showed&p=5164484#post5164484

[Wrong]

On what it is based?
Farmerians and their influence on Oldeuropeans.

[Ayman Vasconic]

Farmerians and their influence on Oldeuropeans.

I meant the look: paint and lines on the guy.
But did Farmerians use cows? Didn;t husbandary arrived with R1-people from the east europe?

[Kelmendasi]

I meant the look: paint and lines on the guy.
But did Farmerians use cows? Didn;t husbandary arrived with R1-people from the east europe?
I'm pretty sure farmers had domesticated cows although during the later periods of the Neolithic, they turned milk into yogurt iirc in a process that would allow them to digest dairy

[Ayman Vasconic]

I'm pretty sure farmers had domesticated cows although during the later periods of the Neolithic, they turned milk into yogurt iirc in a process that would allow them to digest dairy

But these people were lactose intolerant, so, why would they keep cows and drink milk at all?

[Wrong]

But these people were lactose intolerant, so, why would they keep cows and drink milk at all?
Yogurt is digestible by lactose intolerant people.

[Ayman Vasconic]

Yogurt is digestible by lactose intolerant people.

But firstly they have to drink milk. They didn;t think: oh, there are cows, lets keep them and make youghurt - maybe we would be able to digest it!

[Kamal900]

I'm pretty sure farmers had domesticated cows although during the later periods of the Neolithic, they turned milk into yogurt iirc in a process that would allow them to digest dairy

Those farmers, man
https://image.ibb.co/ig3q4a/2017_07_14_05_32_08_Ancient_Populations.png

I love Labneh AKA "Greek" yogurt..even though Greeks have nothing to do with it:
https://www.simplyleb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/labneh_yogurt-3.jpg

[Kelmendasi]

But these people were lactose intolerant, so, why would they keep cows and drink milk at all?
The pottery found in Neolithic sites near the sea of Marmara were found to have a high level of milk fat, they processed milk into cheese and other products, it would also breakdown the lactose in the dairy so they could digest it. Iirc the farmers that advanced into South-eastern Europe had developed lactose tolerance, possibly due to contact with the Yamnaya or other steppe people

[Kelmendasi]

But firstly they have to drink milk. They didn;t think: oh, there are cows, lets keep them and make youghurt - maybe we would be able to digest it!
They probably began to develop yogurt and cheese through basically something like trial and error or coincidence/accident, for example they could've realized that when they drink actual milk they would have digestion problems but when they consumed processed milk they wouldn't and thus they realized that yogurt was something they could eat without having any problems.

[Ayman Vasconic]

had developed lactose tolerance, possibly due to contact with the Yamnaya or other steppe people

They didn't developed as it is not an invention. They just mix with some stepp people. It is not deasise to be infected becasue of contact or touching other people, neither contact is not a developing.

[Kelmendasi]

They didn't developed as it is not an invention. They just mix with some stepp people. It is not infected but contact or touching other people, neither contact is not a developing.
Yh that's what I mean, develop was a wrong word to use I guess.

[Dick]

Rare photo of a brown/blackish I-man assimilated by Farmerians, before the IE arrival:

https://i.imgur.com/AjFyQmW.jpg

Yeah. He looks like my dad.