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Loki
01-14-2014, 06:40 PM
Military rule popular with Egyptians, study finds ahead of vote on constitution (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/14/world/meast/egypt-military-rule/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

(CNN) -- Egyptians are far more likely to support military rule than people in many other countries in the Middle East, but they're also more likely to support Islamic law, according to a study released as the Arab world's most populous country votes on a new constitution.

More than seven out of 10 Egyptians say it is good to have the army rule -- a much larger figure than that in Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Tunisia or Turkey.

But at the same time, more than a quarter support Islam's Sharia law, which makes the idea more popular in Egypt than in Iraq, Lebanon, Tunisia or Turkey.

The numbers reveal the depths of the divisions in a society that has seen revolution and, some would argue, counterrevolution in the last three years.

On Tuesday and Wednesday, Egyptians are getting the chance to vote on the new constitution, in the first national ballot since the army removed President Mohamed Morsy from power in July.

He lasted less than a year in the office, after winning the first democratic elections in Egypt's history. Backed by the Muslim Brotherhood but unpopular with the army, Morsy was toppled after large street protests.

But his supporters were out in force this week in the run-up to the referendum, which the Muslim Brotherhood has vowed to boycott.

A study of seven countries across the Middle East reveals the splits in Egypt that are driving the street protests on both sides.

The was a doubling in support for democracy in Egypt in the decade before the Arab Spring swept the country in early 2011, leading to the fall of longtime strongman Hosni Mubarak.

About one in three (31%) people said a good government makes laws according to the will of the people in 2000, while two in three (62%) said so in 2011.

There was a drop in support for Islamic law in Egypt over the same period, although it was not as dramatic.

Nearly half of Egyptians (48%) said in 2000 that a good government implements only Sharia law, but by 2011, the figure had fallen to 30%.

Even so, support for Sharia was higher in Egypt than in most other countries in the seven-nation study by the Middle Eastern Values Study at the University of Michigan. Only Pakistan and Saudi Arabia -- both legally Islamic countries -- had higher levels of support for Islamic law as a basis for civil law.

After the Arab Spring, there was a notable rise in the number of Egyptians who wanted to keep religion and politics separate.

Just under half (49%) were in favor of separation in 2011, while the number rose to 57% in 2012.

Egyptians were more likely than other Middle Easterners to see the Arab Spring as being motivated by a desire for freedom and democracy.

Nearly six out of ten (59%) of Egyptians saw it that way, compared with 56% in Tunisia -- which also toppled a longtime ruler in 2011 -- 52% in Lebanon, 42% in Pakistan and 36% in Turkey.

The Middle Eastern Values Study published its findings in a December report focusing mainly on Tunisia.

The report, "Changing Values in the Birthplace of the Arab Spring," included detailed comparisons between Tunisia and six other countries in the Middle East.

The Egypt data is based on a sample of 3,496 Egyptians in face-to-face interviews from June to August 2011.

And although Egyptians supported military rule when they were asked to rate whether it was good or bad, they backed democracy when asked to choose between rule of the people and rule by a strong leader.

More than eight out of ten (84%) of Egyptians said democracy was a very good political system, while only one in 20 (5%) said it was very good to have a strong head of government.

Egypt has been led by strongmen with a military background for decades. Mubarak, a former air force commander, ruled Egypt from 1981 until he was brought down by street protests in 2011. His two predecessors, Anwar Sadat and Gamal abd el-Nasser, also came from the military.

The tradition may continue.

Egypt's army chief, Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, said Saturday that he would run for President if the Egyptian people wanted him to, state media reported.

Loki
01-14-2014, 06:41 PM
Great news, it means Egyptians have come to realise what a bad choice the extremist Islamist Morsi scum was. :)

VAARON
01-16-2014, 09:13 PM
Tunisia , Lebanon and hopefully more countries will kick out the islamsits / jail them . im happy to see how the Egyptians have turned around after they tasted some of the sharia filth .

1stLightHorse
01-16-2014, 11:10 PM
I think they support Islamic law, but without supporting ikhwan ul-muslimeen.

Even Egyptians serving in the military (i know many of them) are very strong supporters of Islam, they just hate the ikhwan. I think they still support a rule of law that is based on Islam.

DeaththeKid
01-17-2014, 01:27 AM
I wonder if Turkey will invade eventually :D

Loki
01-17-2014, 11:10 AM
I think they support Islamic law

They don't, except perhaps in very rural areas. Egyptians on the whole are not extremists.

Loki
01-17-2014, 11:10 AM
I wonder if Turkey will invade eventually :D

LOL. I bet Erdogan is very butt-hurt about all this. But he has enough problems at home to keep him busy for a while.

1stLightHorse
01-17-2014, 08:09 PM
They don't, except perhaps in very rural areas. Egyptians on the whole are not extremists.

I know many egyptians living in alexandria who work in the military who make their wife cover in niqab when she goes out. In fact one of them, does not allow his wife to leave her room when even some of her own male relatives are present.

Farah
01-17-2014, 08:12 PM
Military rule is not better. I would not want to be ruled by an elitist military class with tyrannical tendencies (and in the MENA region, this archetype is very much applicable)..it's horrible how Egypt has become 3 years on.

Loki
01-17-2014, 08:14 PM
Military rule is not better. I would not want to be ruled by an elitist military class with tyrannical tendencies (and in the MENA region, this archetype is very much applicable)..it's horrible how Egypt has become 3 years on.

It's certainly better than Morsi. Besides, what you want is irrelevant. Egyptians now seem to prefer military rule than Islamist Morsi rule.

It's not horrible what has happened to Egypt now, it's a great salvation from certain Islamist stagnation and slavery.

arcticwolf
01-17-2014, 08:17 PM
I know many egyptians living in alexandria who work in the military who make their wife cover in niqab when she goes out. In fact one of them, does not allow his wife to leave her room when even some of her own male relatives are present.

I am surprised she is not on a leash and in a dog house. This is 21st century we are talking about right?

Never been to a Muslim country don't plan on ever going, but since you seem to know them, how is it possible that human beings can live without freedom and like it that way? What is wrong with them?

Farah
01-17-2014, 08:18 PM
It's certainly better than Morsi. Besides, what you want is irrelevant. Egyptians now seem to prefer military rule than Islamist Morsi rule.

It's not horrible what has happened to Egypt now, it's a great salvation from certain Islamist stagnation and slavery.

I meant, I as an average citizen in the Arab world would not see this as an ideal option.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrible alternative too, but I see both the military and the MB as two great evils. It's not salvation, it's transiting from one form of 'citizen slavery' to another, imho.

Anomander Rake
01-17-2014, 08:49 PM
I know many egyptians living in alexandria who work in the military who make their wife cover in niqab when she goes out. In fact one of them, does not allow his wife to leave her room when even some of her own male relatives are present.
Horrible. This cult should be banned in the West. It doesn't belong to the 21st century.

Loki
01-17-2014, 08:57 PM
I meant, I as an average citizen in the Arab world would not see this as an ideal option.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrible alternative too, but I see both the military and the MB as two great evils. It's not salvation, it's transiting from one form of 'citizen slavery' to another, imho.

Well, there is going to be new elections now. The military intervention was only temporary, and it was very very fortunate for Egypt!

Loki
01-17-2014, 08:58 PM
Horrible. This cult should be banned in the West. It doesn't belong to the 21st century.

I fully agree. It belongs in the Stone Age.

1stLightHorse
01-17-2014, 09:01 PM
I am surprised she is not on a leash and in a dog house. This is 21st century we are talking about right?

Never been to a Muslim country don't plan on ever going, but since you seem to know them, how is it possible that human beings can live without freedom and like it that way? What is wrong with them?


Horrible. This cult should be banned in the West. It doesn't belong to the 21st century.

I'll give you his address and you guys can go and sort him out if you have that much of a problem with it.:roll eyes:

Edit: To be honest, they don't want to let their women be corrupted which is what has happened to pretty much every western country and many non-western countries.

Maybe there is something more to this though, countries that seem to be in closer proximity to the neanderthal - homo sapien conflict, may be more inclined toward this behaviour due to neanderthal predation on early human females. Assuming that theory is the truth, of course.

Besides that, the woman doesn't mind it, she's happy to go along she has a university degree also, she wasn't closeted by her father or anything.

My main point though is that it's not as black & white as, military = secular, ikhwan = shari'ah.
Many of the military's personnel are highly devout muslims. Some would argue even moreso than ikhwan ul-muslimeen. They're just not nerd-like, as the ikhwanis are who prefer to pen-push.

Anomander Rake
01-17-2014, 09:03 PM
I'll give you his address and you guys can go and sort him out if you have that much of a problem with it.:rolleyes:
I don't want to lose my life in the name of "peaceful and loving" Allah.

What does it matter if she doesn't mind? If someone doesn't mind about his life, is it OK to murder him? Of course not. It's her rights, and her husband behaves as he owns her ("they don't want to let their women be corrupted"). It's her life, she should be allowed to do as she wants. If she wants to wear a Burqa or Niqab and stuff like that, I don't mind, but not letting her around other males? Moreover - around her family?

What the heck? Islam is just... fucked up.

1stLightHorse
01-17-2014, 09:13 PM
I meant, I as an average citizen in the Arab world would not see this as an ideal option.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrible alternative too, but I see both the military and the MB as two great evils. It's not salvation, it's transiting from one form of 'citizen slavery' to another, imho.

IMO secularism and democracy would not work for Arabs. They're too stubborn which has both advantages and disadvantages. They want someone to deal with them on their own terms. An arbiter, like Prophet Muhammad dealt with them.

Maybe like a Gemal Abdel Nasser, but a more islamically inclined version of him.

Loki
01-17-2014, 09:20 PM
1stLighthorse, with all due respect ... your few contacts in Egypt do not represent a genuine trend. The sample size is too small. There are very many secular Egyptians - usually the most intelligent and progressive ones.

Also remember that Egyptians are not Arabs - they're Arabized.

LightHouse89
01-17-2014, 09:22 PM
Sieg Heil in the fight to end international criminals! they see how they are being played by Saudi Arabia, the US gov and the international banking system.

LightHouse89
01-17-2014, 09:24 PM
IMO secularism and democracy would not work for Arabs. They're too stubborn which has both advantages and disadvantages. They want someone to deal with them on their own terms. An arbiter, like Prophet Muhammad dealt with them.

Maybe like a Gemal Abdel Nasser, but a more islamically inclined version of him.

the problem is Saudi Arabia and America are pushing radical islam [the religious nuts] to do these things using indirect means. They want radical islam too win and many middle easterners refuse to have it in their lands. if the church did the same I would rebel against them. I do not trust them or my current government for that matter.

LightHouse89
01-17-2014, 09:26 PM
I meant, I as an average citizen in the Arab world would not see this as an ideal option.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrible alternative too, but I see both the military and the MB as two great evils. It's not salvation, it's transiting from one form of 'citizen slavery' to another, imho.

the world should be fascist......the great things we could all accomplish :cool:

1stLightHorse
01-17-2014, 11:11 PM
1stLighthorse, with all due respect ... your few contacts in Egypt do not represent a genuine trend. The sample size is too small. There are very many secular Egyptians - usually the most intelligent and progressive ones.

Also remember that Egyptians are not Arabs - they're Arabized.

That's true, but how many Egyptians fit into the progressive category? It's a small minority.
It does represent the trend within the military, but as for a general populace you're right.

On the last point i would say, many Egyptians still exhibit the same tendencies as Arabs because they have evolved in a desert also and many of the same mentalities that you could find in khaleejis, can also be found in Egyptians. This may be because of Islam, but also maybe not. One gets the feeling when flying into Egypt especially over sinai and the sahara that the vast majority of the country is brutally inhospitable and must have forged some extreme personality traits, even though they have been civilised for a long time.

I think guys like Bassem youssef are the ones who don't represent the majority.

1stLightHorse
01-17-2014, 11:15 PM
I don't want to lose my life in the name of "peaceful and loving" Allah.

What does it matter if she doesn't mind? If someone doesn't mind about his life, is it OK to murder him? Of course not. It's her rights, and her husband behaves as he owns her ("they don't want to let their women be corrupted"). It's her life, she should be allowed to do as she wants. If she wants to wear a Burqa or Niqab and stuff like that, I don't mind, but not letting her around other males? Moreover - around her family?

What the heck? Islam is just... fucked up.

If you're going to lose sleep over it, go there and try to make a positive difference, you already know what will happen.

They're still one society that determine how they will live and won't accept outside ideas. Egyptians are not a group of european diluted jews that have started a country in the middle-east after learning european values and combining them with their pre-existing identity.

Ivan Kramskoļ
01-17-2014, 11:20 PM
Better secular leaders than fanatic muslims

YeshAtid
01-18-2014, 11:26 AM
Some of the comments here are laughable at best. It's quite clear that the Arab is averse to any form of progressive thinking, I wouldn't go so far as to claim that it's inherent in their way of thinking, but it's certainly prevalent amongst the majority. Part of the problem is their tendency to scapegoat others, in order to rationalise their own shortcomings; Israel being a prime example of the way they cling on to a successful nation and blame it for all their ineptitude. However, please refrain from misconstruing my words; it's also quite clear there are some very rational and pragmatic Arabs out there, such as Walid Shoebat and Nonie Darwish who espouse Western ideals whilst having the foresight to know that they'll never fully materialise unless Arab societies audit themselves first. Alas, they're a marginalised minority, which also serves to show how tragic the plight of the Arabs is.
I'm not supporting expansionism per se, but it's evident that if Israel ran the region things would be a lot better, for everybody.

Stormer99
01-18-2014, 11:30 AM
What I think should happen is the elites of those countries should rule instead of having democracy, which can result in rule of the stupid.

Loki
01-18-2014, 11:34 AM
What I think should happen is the elites of those countries should rule instead of having democracy, which can result in rule of the stupid.

Yes - as in Syria.

Stormer99
01-18-2014, 11:34 AM
Yes - as in Syria.

Exactly. They bring stability and freedom.

YeshAtid
01-18-2014, 01:41 PM
Exactly. They bring stability and freedom.

That's likely the most pragmatic solution