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Methusalem
02-01-2014, 01:46 PM
Pedophile Alliance: An Uncomfortable Past for Gay Rights

By Ann-Katrin Müller

A page addressing the "national pedophilia question" in gay activist magazine "Rosa Flieder" in 1981.

http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-537903-breitwandaufmacher-legw.jpg\

In the 1980s, gay rights groups in Germany formed an alliance with pedophiles who advocated the legalization of sex with minors. It's a dark period few care to talk about now.

In July 1981, the gay interest magazine "Rosa Flieder" published an interview with Olaf Stüben. Stüben was one of the most infamous pedophiles in Germany at the time. As a writer for the leftist newspaper Die Tageszeitung, he openly advocated for people to accept pedophilia as healthy and moral.

In the magazine interview, Stüben is asked why it should be acceptable for adults to have sex with children and youths. He talks of quickies with young boys, and declares it backwards to maintain the taboo around inappropriately touching children. "Childlike innocence is an invention of the bourgeoisie of early capitalism," Stüben says.
The interview in "Rosa Flieder" was not a one-off lapse. On the contrary -- in the 1970s and 80s, numerous gay-oriented magazines brazenly promoted sex with children, even running pictures of naked boys. The magazine "Don" presented five sympathetic reports on the experiences of pedophilic men. The headline read, "We're not child rapists!"

In recent months, many in Germany have been discussing the extent to which the Green Party in the 1980s allowed itself to be manipulated by pedophiles. The party came under such intense pressure that it hired political scientist Franz Walter to look into its own history relating to the issue.

Yet it's now clear that the gay movement in Germany must also come to terms with this chapter of its history. Anyone who searches through archives can find ample evidence of the alliance between gay rights organizations and pedophile activists. If pedophiles got into trouble with the law, they could rely on legal advice from a group called "Gay Lawyers." Many politicians in the Green Party also made sure that calls for legalizing sex with children had an audience.

A Beneficial Alliance

Nowadays it seems puzzling why gays would get themselves mixed up with people whose sexual obsessions were downright illegal. The tolerance for pedophiles was fueled by several different sources. For one, many gays at the time knew all too well what it was like to be discriminated against by the state. Consensual sex between adult men was officially a criminal act up until the end of the 1960s. Only in 1969 did lawmakers in West Germany dismantle the infamous "Paragraph 175" of the German Criminal Code. At the same time, the sexual revolution was breaking out, and many men finally had the courage to come out of the closet.

Thus many gays didn't want to be the ones to judge others for their deviant sexual inclinations. In a climate of general tolerance, the movement lost its moral compass. The gay movement did not distance itself from men who acted on their desire for children; rather, it took them under its wing.

Then there was the remarkable idea that underage boys should not be denied the chance to have sexual experiences with grown men. Even today, the Association of Lesbians and Gays in Germany (LSVD) claims on its website that in the 1980s, the only men who spoke up were those who had enjoyed sex with adults in their youth.

For the pedophiles, the alliance with the gay movement was nothing but beneficial. They had a platform from which they could formulate objectives.

The gay movement helped pedophiles in entirely practical ways. In the pamphlet "Justly gay. Legal advice for gays," there is a one-and-a-half page "argumentation aid." It's an instruction on how men who are charged with child sexual abuse can best escape punishment.

Backlash Begins

The reader is spoken to informally: "If your sexual behavior is not contestable, but this behavior is limited to French kissing and mutual masturbation, your defense attorney can request that an expert witness take the stand." This could serve to negate the claim that such behavior is harmful to the sexual development of a child, the pamphlet continues. But only on one condition: "Suitable expert witnesses must be contacted in due time."

Beginning in the mid-1980s, the gay movement in Germany began to distance itself from pedophiles. At the Green Party convention of the western state of North Rhine-Westphalia in March 1985, the party approved a document that called for the legalization of "non-violent sexuality" between adults and children. The incident caused such an uproar that the Greens missed out on the chance to enter the state legislature.

The gay rights movement also began to notice how much damage the alliance with pedophiles was causing. Suddenly gays had to fight back against the cliche of the "homosexual child molester." Their actual goals, like the creation of an effective AIDS policy and the end of societal discrimination, were relegated to the background.

The women's movement was also partly responsible for raising awareness among leftists of the harm caused by pedophilia. Prominent feminist Alice Schwarzer was active in fighting child abuse when pedophilia was still considered an acceptable form of human sexuality in some circles.

While the now-defunct leftist alternative magazine "Pflasterstrand," then edited by current Green politician Daniel Cohn-Bendit, justified sex with children, Schwarzer caused a sensation with an interview in her magazine "Emma." She spoke with sexual educator Günter Amendt, who was considered especially progressive at the time. Still, he criticized that pedophiles always exploited their position of power over children. There could be no discussion of love on an equal standing, he said.

Past Advocates Tight-Lipped on Issue

Of course, Schwarzer says today, pedophilia is not an issue among gays. There are more heterosexual pedophiles than homosexual ones, she says. "But the gay rights movement needed to distance itself more clearly. And a problematization of pederasty, sex between men and young boys, has not yet occurred."

But there are hardly any gay activists who are willing to talk about the dark days of the past. Volker Beck, who represents Cologne in the German parliament, has made it clear that he has already said all he is going to say about the subject. Beck was for a long time the spokesman for the Greens' Federal Working Group for Gay Politics.
In the 1980s, he wrote a contribution for a book called "The Pedosexual Complex" in which he advocated for the decriminalization of sex with minors. He later claimed that the passages were later edited into his text. He can't prove if that is true or not.

The LSVD is also tight-lipped when it comes to clarifying its involvement with pedophilia. In the 1990s, they wrote clear explanations, says Günter Dworek from the board of directors. The paper from 1997 is essentially unapologetic. It says it is abuse "if adults satisfy their sexual needs at the cost of children." However, there is no word on the former alliance of gays and pedophiles in that text.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/gay-activists-in-germany-silent-on-alliance-with-pedophiles-in-1980s-a-919119.html

Minesweeper
02-01-2014, 01:49 PM
Those fine European values.

Methusalem
02-01-2014, 02:10 PM
We even have a gay Green Politician in Germany who publicly demands to decriminalize Pedophilia. How sick is that?

His name, Volker Beck:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volker_Beck

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HFl6Cm71P5k/Tu5_vMjt2mI/AAAAAAAAVoM/cgthaKNw8qY/s1600/Volker%2BBeck%2B4.jpeg


In 2003, the German Bundestag decided on his initiative that the Federal Republic of Germany will erect a national memorial in the centre of Berlin for homosexuals persecuted by the Nazi Party.

Great, the minority discriminates the majority.


On 27 May 2006, Beck was attacked and injured during a Gay Rights demonstration in Moscow, called Moscow Pride.[2][3] His attack as well as his participation at the Moscow Pride Festival is featured in the documentary Moscow Pride '06.

Volker Beck Agent Provocateur in Russia, getting beaten by straight Russians because the Russians resist this pervert shit:

http://www.huk-hannover.de/Bilder/VolkerBeck-Moskau1.jpg

Gay politician Volker Beck promoted for years the acceptance of pedophilia per law:


...but the mobilization of the gay movement is the legal point of view as opposed to paedosexuality simple as plugging in equality of homo-and heterosexuality, by deleting the § 175 of the Penal Code and the rights of homosexuals can prevent the cementing of a sexual repressive climate - a requirement to one day fight for the at least partial decriminalization of paedosexuality.

Volker Beck

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_p%C3%A4dosexuelle_Komplex


It should be pointed out that the Greens never amended laws to make life easier for pedophiles, but it's also true that they lacked the power to do so in their early years. And where they did eventually capture seats in state parliaments, such as in the western state of Hesse in 1985, any rhetoric to the effect never materialized into action. The coalition agreement of the first state government that included the Greens, in an alliance with the center-left Social Democratic Party (SPD), included the pledge to both abolish the notorious Section 175, which made homosexual acts between males a crime, as well as to liberalize other parts of the law governing sexual offences. There were never any practical consequences, though.

The party's responsibility begins at the point where an atmosphere arose in which sex with children could be viewed as a normal variant of human desire. In this sense, the Greens were entirely a product of the late 1960s generation, which aimed to free society from the shackles of sexual repression. People who were inhibited and dependent were viewed as the root of all evil.

Some results of this struggle for more freedom are certainly viewed as positive to this day. The Greens fought for the sexual autonomy of women and championed the interests of gays and lesbians, for example. But the party lost its sense of proportion by expanding its range of tolerance to encompass everything, arguing that child sexuality should be allowed to develop without prudery and compulsion. In the end, the Greens also protected pedophiles who sought to act out their violent obsessions with children.

No case exposes this more clearly than that of Willi D., a Green Party politician in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia who raped the two-and-a-half-year-old daughter of his female companion in the spring of 1985. After he was sentenced, the Greens' state party organization advised him to resign from the party, but soon there were those who disagreed. For them, excluding Willi D. from the party would mean "delivering him to the criminal justice system without protection," wrote the "Prison and Justice Task Force" of the Green-Alternative List, the party's branch in the city-state of Hamburg at the time. The group argued that it was inadmissible to portray D. as someone who had "acted out of conviction and deliberate anti-child intentions." In another document, the Prison and Justice Task Force wrote critically that D. was now being "relegated to the male world of prison," in which an "atmosphere of sexual crudeness prevails."

Losing Influence

An incident that occurred in 1985 shows how aggressively the pedophilia activists defended their views. A young woman using a pseudonym told a Green Party panel how family members had abused her as a child, saying that an uncle would take her to a remote parking lot and force her to play with his penis. "I was 11 at the time, and I experienced how horribly brutish sexuality can be," she said. "He stared at me with a piercing look in his eyes, and before I knew it semen was squirting at the windshield." She said she had been traumatized since then, and that the mere sight of semen made her feel sick.

In all of their documents, the pedophile activists had made it clear that sex with children should only occur if it was consensual. In this case, however, BAG SchwuP and various gay state working groups sent out a joint statement that crassly attacked the woman. It said that the statement's author apparently didn't see the need to "acknowledge the discussion that has already taken place in this area. Everyone believes that he/she can simply generalize his/her experiences. 'Girl' is generalized as 'child,' and AN experience is immediately turned into 'childhood experienceS.'"

It took a full seven years after the Green Party was founded before the pedophiles lost their influence. One reason was the women's movement, which could never understand why the Greens became involved with men who want to act out their power fantasies on children. Gays in the party had also had enough of being lumped in with the pedophiles. In early 1987, the SchwuP was dissolved, ending the pedophiles' involvement with the Greens. From then on, there was only the National Working Group on Gays, chaired by Volker Beck.

He had always felt that the pedophiles' demands were wrong, the parliamentarian from Cologne says today. "I always wanted to pursue pure gay and lesbian policy."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/past-pedophile-links-haunt-german-green-party-a-899544-2.html

InperatoreBT
02-01-2014, 02:34 PM
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/426/993/c24

Lusos
02-01-2014, 02:37 PM
I feel like pucking.

Methusalem
02-01-2014, 10:45 PM
I feel like pucking.

Me too.

VAARON
02-02-2014, 03:22 PM
"Childlike innocence is an invention of the bourgeoisie of early capitalism," Stüben says.

filthy filthy socialism . remind me of Acquisitor . here in america no such socialism is allowed .

Methusalem
02-02-2014, 03:24 PM
"Childlike innocence is an invention of the bourgeoisie of early capitalism," Stüben says.

filthy filthy socialism . remind me of Acquisitor . here in america no such socialism is allowed .

It is not real socialism. It is a modified form of socialism: cultural Marxism(Frankfurter Schule).

Hierarchalist
02-02-2014, 04:36 PM
Disgusting:puke::

KidMulat
02-02-2014, 04:42 PM
That is fringe politics I really don't believe its best to say the Gay movement of Germany as a whole believes in this.

Methusalem
02-02-2014, 04:47 PM
That is fringe politics I really don't believe its best to say the Gay movement of Germany as a whole believes in this.

Main heads of the German gay movement supported it. Read the fucking article.

ChocolateFace
02-02-2014, 04:55 PM
What sick shit. This whole world is fucked.

KidMulat
02-02-2014, 05:01 PM
Main heads of the German gay movement supported it. Read the fucking article.

No that is incorrect though, in the mid-80's they had separated themselves but they pretty much were silent regarding that aspect of their past and it was feminists who were spearheading the pedophilia as abuse POV.

albosomething
02-02-2014, 05:02 PM
this is why Homo things should be stopped, this shit is fucking sick

Methusalem
02-02-2014, 05:09 PM
No that is incorrect though, in the mid-80's they had separated themselves but they pretty much were silent regarding that aspect of their past and it was feminists who were spearheading the pedophilia as abuse.

Bullshit. Main heads of the German LGBT-movement like Volker Beck and Cohn-Bendit supported and even published a book supporting pedophilia till the early 90's. Yes no shit Sherlock later on/recently they separated themselves yada yada trying to hide their past. Obviously it is unbelievable that someone with such a past has different views currently on the topic of pedophilia.

http://www.newgon.com/prd/German/lib/Beck1988.html

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_p%C3%A4dosexuelle_Komplex

I could post a lot of information but it is on German. I really like it how you think that you can talk like an expert on this topic while hearing of it today the first time.

KidMulat
02-02-2014, 05:14 PM
Bullshit. Main heads of the German LGBT-movement like Volker Beck and Cohn-Bendit supported and even published a book supporting pedophilia till the early 90's. Yes no shit Sherlock later on/recently they separated themselves yada yada trying to hide their past. Obviously it is unbelievable that someone with such a past has different views currently on the topic of pedophilia.

http://www.newgon.com/prd/German/lib/Beck1988.html

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_p%C3%A4dosexuelle_Komplex

I could post a lot of information but it is on German. I really like it how you think that you can talk like an expert on this topic while hearing of it today the first time.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/gay-activists-in-germany-silent-on-alliance-with-pedophiles-in-1980s-a-919119.html

There have been activists who've trained with organizations in SF, we basically host individuals and groups around the world. This is not me speaking out of my ass from no where, I can say I have probably worked with more gay German activists and groups than you have.

Methusalem
02-02-2014, 05:20 PM
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/gay-activists-in-germany-silent-on-alliance-with-pedophiles-in-1980s-a-919119.html

You are posting the same article which I posted without a given reason. What's your point?


There have been activists who've trained with organizations in SF, we basically host individuals and groups around the world. This is not me speaking out of my ass from no where. I can say I have probably worked with more gay German activists and groups than you have.

You are speaking out of your ass and working with a few gay activists in Germany means shit since you have no knowledge regarding this case. It is probably the first time you heard of this issue, if it wasn't for me posting this article. Anyway this has literally nothing to do with my previous post disproving your claim that it was a fringe movement while in fact main heads of the LGBT-movement in Germany supported it and even wrote articles/books supporting legalization of pedophilia.

KidMulat
02-02-2014, 05:31 PM
You are posting the same article which I posted without a given reason. What's your point?



You are speaking out of your ass and working with a few gay activists in Germany means shit since you have no knowledge regarding this case. It is probably the first time you heard of this issue, if it wasn't for me posting this article. Anyway this has literally nothing to do with my previous post disproving your claim that it was a fringe movement while in fact main heads of the LGBT-movement in Germany supported it and even wrote articles/books supporting legalization of pedophilia.

I have stated a half dozen times on here I work in the Non-Profit "industry" and I do work regarding LGBT issues; San Francisco is world renowned as "The Gay Mecca" and has literally over 100 LGBT organizations hosting and supporting activists and organizations from here to the Deep South, to Mexico, to Uganda and Nigeria, to German and until recently Russia, to Israel and Turkey to Japan/China/Thailand and beyond.

Its not a matter of if I heard it, I know about it because its my job to be aware of the specific issues of the groups/individuals activists and gay rights advocates.

Its like telling someone who works with a Refugee Advocacy group that they didn't know about the the Nepalese-Bhutanese in Fargo or the Kunama in Rhode Island; yes its obscure but its by no means relatively unknown lol

Methusalem
02-02-2014, 05:40 PM
I have stated a half dozen times on here I work in the Non-Profit "industry" and I do work regarding LGBT issues; San Francisco is world renowned as "The Gay Mecca" and has literally over 100 LGBT organizations hosting and supporting activists and organizations from here to the Deep South, to Mexico, to Uganda and Nigeria, to German and until recently Russia, to Israel and Turkey to Japan/China/Thailand and beyond.

Its not a matter of if I heard it, I know about it because its my job to be aware of the specific issues of the groups/individuals activists and gay rights advocates.

Its like telling someone who works with a Refugee Advocacy group that they didn't know about the the Nepalese-Bhutanese in Fargo or the Kunama in Rhode Island; yes its obscure but its by no means relatively unknown lol

So you heard about this case? Interesting. It was only an issue in Germany for a few weeks, however I knew about this previous support of legalization of pedophilia from LGBT-heads in Germany a few years ago.

KidMulat
02-02-2014, 05:46 PM
So you heard about this case? Interesting. It was only an issue in Germany for a few weeks, however I knew about this previous support of legalization of pedophilia from LGBT-heads in Germany a few years ago.

No its not new, the Netherlands had a similar issue awhile ago, they even did a study regarding Ephebophiles which needless to say caused a stir here.

I don't know what it is about Europe but this kind of thing seems to happened a few places where as out here there was a very strong dismissal of such an alliance (ofcourse there is NAMBLA but like they are very openly despised and loathed)

Methusalem
02-02-2014, 05:55 PM
No its not new, the Netherlands had a similar issue awhile ago, they even did a study regarding Ephebophiles which needless to say caused a stir here. I don't know what it is about Europe but this kind of thing seems to happened a few places where as out here there was a very strong dismissal of such an alliance (ofcourse there is NAMBLA but like they are very openly despised and loathed)

I know that it is not 'new' as I already said in my previous. Are you trying to provoke me? Yes in Europe there are plenty of such similar cases, we even have some of these sick fucks sitting the EU-parliament.

Well and even in the US there are some famous LGBT-activists supporting pedophilia.

Óttar
02-02-2014, 05:57 PM
OP is obsessed with fags.

KidMulat
02-02-2014, 06:15 PM
I know that it is not 'new' as I already said in my previous. Are you trying to provoke me? Yes in Europe there are plenty of such similar cases, we even have some of these sick fucks sitting the EU-parliament.

Well and even in the US there are some famous LGBT-activists supporting pedophilia.

No, our first major organization was the Mattachine Society; it was all about normative anti-sterotype rhetoric of the period (A very strong anti-pedophillic stance) and pretty much that was the template for the other organizations that followed.

Ginsberg was a Ephebophile but he wasn't an activist/leader for any LGBT organization, worked with NAMBLA and associated with the mostly heterosexual Beat Movement. Much like Woody Allen though that aspect of him is ignored for some reason.

Again I think its incorrect to state its universal; I would also want to know what was the age of consent at and prior to the Nazi period of Germany for heterosexuals? My main question is what were the mechanism for this particular viewpoint post-WWII.

I am aware of the relationships that existed in Japan up until the Meiji Era as being much like Greco-Roman modes but am unsure about Germany and Western Europe; any English sources of Hirschfeld you'd recommend?

Methusalem
02-02-2014, 11:18 PM
bump