Do I look semitic or hamitic?

[oblivion]

http://i60.tinypic.com/1ixvly.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/6idu7p.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/11uexw3.jpg

[Styrian Mujo]

Semitic.

[oblivion]

anyone else

[ArabWhite]

Indian

[Smaug]

Semitic.

[YeshAtid]

Semitic

[Also]

Semitic, like Assyrian.

[oblivion]

Indian

do I look semitic or hamitic..

[ArabWhite]

do I look semitic or hamitic..

none of them
you look like average indian girls

Indian girls (the same as u)

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=Exk&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&q=indian%20girls%20facebook&revid=232346698&ei=4BvxUu2kIISctAavroHIDA&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.60444564%2Cd.Yms%2Cpv.xjs.s.en_US.eZEYYeGZN Ys.O&biw=960&bih=413&dpr=1.5&ech=1&psi=4BvxUu2kIISctAavroHIDA.1391533058295.3&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=4BvxUu2kIISctAavroHIDA

[oblivion]

anyone else?

[LightHouse89]

what is your ethnicity or nationality? you look middle eastern to me.

[The King, I am]

Pure Hamite:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/A_Somali_man.jpeg

You look more Semitic

[oblivion]

Pure Hamite:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/A_Somali_man.jpeg

You look more Semitic
Wouldn't this guy be considered mixed? Like half hamitic half semitic?

[YeshAtid]

Wouldn't this guy be considered mixed? Like half hamitic half semitic?

He's predominantly hamitic with some significant Arabid( semitic) ancestry like all horners.

[The King, I am]

Wouldn't this guy be considered mixed? Like half hamitic half semitic?

Not all East Africans are mixed, some tribes have managed to remain un-mixed

And even if this particular one is mixed he still looks completely hamitic, almost Nordic

[oblivion]

He's predominantly hamitic with some significant Arabid( semitic) ancestry like all horners.

what constitutes semitic features over hamitic?

[Yehiel]

Semitic

[oblivion]

what is your ethnicity or nationality? you look middle eastern to me.

I am middle eastern ;)

[Black Wolf]

I am going to say Semitic partially because I see you have Y-DNA listed as J-P58 which is very common among Arabs. Your brother, father or paternal cousin I assume tested for it.

[armenianbodyhair]

semitic, and this thread belongs in personal taxonomy.

[oblivion]

I am going to say Semitic partially because I see you have Y-DNA listed as J-P58 which is very common among Arabs. Your brother, father or paternal cousin I assume tested for it.

Yes my brother did...bu it doesn't necessarily mean I look semitic...

[Black Wolf]

semitic, and this thread belongs in personal taxonomy.

You belong in personal taxonomy.

[YeshAtid]

what constitutes semitic features over hamitic?

Semitic features are completely Europoid( Caucasoid), whilst Hamitics have some African mixture.
Hamitic-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/An_Afar_nomad.jpg

[Dombra]

Semitic oy vey

[Black Wolf]

Hamitic peoples ie. East Africans are a mix of Caucasoid and Negroid types genetically and racially.

[YeshAtid]

Semitic oy vey

Lol. Most Jews aren't semitic though.

[Methusalem]

Not Semitic but Indo-Aryan mixed with a bit of Dravidian.

[Methusalem]

Semitic, like Assyrian.

Hilarious when a NewWorld triracial mongrel tries to classify unmixed old worlders.

[oblivion]

Not Semitic but Indo-Aryan mixed with a bit of Dravidian.

Really?? I have never gotten that before..

[Yehiel]

Lol. Most Jews aren't semitic though.

I wouldnt say most, 80% look semitic. I guess it depends if we are talking Ashkenazi or Sefardi or Mizrahi

[YeshAtid]

I wouldnt say most, 80% look semitic. I guess it depends if we are talking Ashkenazi or Sefardi or Mizrahi

Semitic is the same as Arabid. Most Jews look either armenoid or east med( Levantine), only Yemeni Jews are Semites.
This is the epitome of a semite
http://www.topnews.in/files/Omar-bin-Laden1.jpg

[armenianbodyhair]

none of them
you look like average indian girls

Indian girls (the same as u)

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=Exk&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&q=indian%20girls%20facebook&revid=232346698&ei=4BvxUu2kIISctAavroHIDA&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.60444564%2Cd.Yms%2Cpv.xjs.s.en_US.eZEYYeGZN Ys.O&biw=960&bih=413&dpr=1.5&ech=1&psi=4BvxUu2kIISctAavroHIDA.1391533058295.3&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=4BvxUu2kIISctAavroHIDA
Are you blind or trolling?

[Yehiel]

Semitic is the same as Arabid. Most Jews look either armenoid or east med( Levantine), only Yemeni Jews are Semites.
This is the epitome of a semite
http://www.topnews.in/files/Omar-bin-Laden1.jpg

Oh okay, i thought we were grouping Semites with the Levantines so never mind.

[armenianbodyhair]

Semitic is the same as Arabid. Most Jews look either armenoid or east med( Levantine), only Yemeni Jews are Semites.
This is the epitome of a semite
http://www.topnews.in/files/Omar-bin-Laden1.jpg

That unibrow is fucking SEXY.

[armenianbodyhair]

You belong in personal taxonomy.

Classify my ear?

[oblivion]

Are you blind or trolling?

I don't find I look Indian either...

[Methusalem]

Semitic features are completely Europoid( Caucasoid), whilst Hamitics have some African mixture.


Hamtic(Cushitic/Aethiopids) are more a race of their own derived from Proto-caucasoids and modified with minor Khoisanid. This conclusion can be made on various skull findings which show that in Eastafrica the skulls were more or less always Caucasoid similar in metrics to Nordids/Mediterranids. Caucasoid but not in the proper sense based on tropical adaption:

http://i48.tinypic.com/219s7sp.jpg

[YeshAtid]

That unibrow is fucking SEXY.
This is perfection personified
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yNMIPbHcVKU/SifWgGuGQdI/AAAAAAAACxA/LnSZ6vLNchI/s400/unibrow%2Bgone%2Bwild.jpg

[Black Wolf]

Classify my ear?

Do you ever just want to just scream and shout and let it all out?

[YeshAtid]

Hamtic(Cushitic/Aethiopids) are more a race of their own derived from Proto-caucasoids and modified with minor Khoisanid. This conclusion can be made on various skull findings which show that in Eastafrica the skulls were more or less always Caucasoid similar in metrics to Nordids/Mediterranids. Caucasoid but not in the proper sense based on tropical adaption:

http://i48.tinypic.com/219s7sp.jpg
I gather they started out as a caucasoid subrace, but through a gradual period of mixing they acquired some SSA. But from what I've seen of them they tend to be predominantly caucasoid.

[armenianbodyhair]

Do you ever just want to just scream and shout and let it all out?
BRITNEY BITCH!

[Black Wolf]

BRITNEY BITCH!

Rockin with!

[Methusalem]

I gather they started out as a caucasoid subrace, but through a gradual period of mixing they acquired some SSA. But from what I've seen of them they tend to be predominantly caucasoid.

Yes. That's why you see very caucasoid looking individuals even among Nilotic/Omotic and even Bantu tribes in Kenya, Tanzania etc. those Caucasoid skulls were by the way found in Kenya and Tanzania and predate any Southwestasian/Bantu invasion.

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-II09.htm


In the morphology of the head and face, these three specimens are not exactly alike. Gamble’s Cave #5, which has a cranial index of 74, is nearest to the European standard; while the two others, Gamble’s #4, with an index of 71, and Oldoway, with 64.5, are decreasingly so. But they are closer in many ways to modern European racial types than are the Upper palaeolithic skulls. They seem, however, to have been subjected to some influence which has made all extremities, including both limbs and face, extremely long and thin. One may compare this with the modern changes in the English stock settled in Queensland.56

Both of the Gamble’s Cave skulls seem to be fully or nearly “white” in the skeletal sense, but Oldoway is, in a way difficult to analyze, perceptibly negroid. Many modern tribes of East Africa, including the Somalis and Masai, and the upper classes of others such as the Bahimas, show today the same general features which are found in these pluvial period skulls, particularly in Oldoway. These modern Hamites have long spindly legs, thin hands, and narrow wrists, while their bodies are correspondingly thin and attenuated. Their skulls are universally long, smoothly contoured, and lacking in strong muscular markings. Their noses are narrow and often highly arched, their jaws light and narrow, their faces long and thin. All of these modern East African Hamites show a certain amount of negroid admixture, but their skulls are considerably smaller than the three from the pluvial period

[oblivion]

I think the biggest difference between hamites and semites is the shape and size of the eyes...

[Black Wolf]

I think the biggest difference between hamites and semites is the shape and size of the eyes...

Aren't most Hamitics darker skinned on the whole as well?

[Erronkari]

Semitic.
(Cute eyes, with most respect)

[oblivion]

Aren't most Hamitics darker skinned on the whole as well?

I thought so but you some hamites like berbers are actually quite light and a lot of semitic arabs are quite dark ..so I don't know if it's that big of a factor.

[oblivion]

Semitic.
(Cute eyes, with most respect)

Thank you :)

[oblivion]

any other guesses about my mug..

[InperatoreBT]

Semitic, Hamitic.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

You look Pakistani a bit. But Ill go with Semitic.

[oblivion]

Semitic, Hamitic.
Are you being serious or trolling?

[oblivion]

Any other guesses?

[StonyArabia]

You look Semitic, you show Arabid/EastMed/Alpine traits.

[Kamal900]

Any other guesses?

You look very Semitic and beautiful. Which country are you originally from?

[LightHouse89]

anyone else?

Possibly Semitic to me. Like someone from the Levantine region.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I take it back upon further review not Pakistani looking at all. I don't know what I was thinking but I was very sleepy when I wrote that lol. :)
Definitely Semitic :)

[Kamal900]

I take it back upon further review not Pakistani looking at all. I don't know what I was thinking but I was very sleepy when I wrote that lol. :)
Definitely Semitic :)

yup, she is.

[oblivion]

I take it back upon further review not Pakistani looking at all. I don't know what I was thinking but I was very sleepy when I wrote that lol. :)
Definitely Semitic :)

Hahahahah thanks

[LightHouse89]

You look Pakistani a bit. But Ill go with Semitic.

Pakis look like Indians 9/10 times. To me they do at least.

[arcticwolf]

Semitic

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Pakis look like Indians 9/10 times. To me they do at least.

Yes many times like North Indians indeed the majority of them are Punjabis with some Pashtuns as well but they are lighter skin more often than not, and there is a minority of them that can look rather West Asian.

[YeshAtid]

Really?? I have never gotten that before..
I think he means you look Northern Indian, which is what people would think in Britain.

[oblivion]

I think he means you look Northern Indian, which is what people would think in Britain.

I can see how he can see that... but an Indian doesn't look semitic...

[StonyArabia]

I think he means you look Northern Indian, which is what people would think in Britain.

She looks pred Ghassanid to me to be honest with some Levantine and North African influence.

[oblivion]

She looks pred Ghassanid to me to be honest with some Levantine and North African influence.

Arabs usually think I am either Iraqi or Palestinian...

[YeshAtid]

She looks pred Ghassanid to me to be honest with some Levantine and North African influence.
She doesn't look overly semitic though. Copts are only arabised ancient Egyptians.

[YeshAtid]

I can see how he can see that... but an Indian doesn't look semitic...
Most don't , but there's definitely some overlap.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Mostly Semitic but with slight Hamitic features.

[oblivion]

Mostly Semitic but with slight Hamitic features.

What are those hamitic features?

[The Illyrian Warrior]

What are those hamitic features?

Mostly mouth and chin area gives me that Hamitic vibe, also eyes region to lesser extent. :thumb001:

[StonyArabia]

She doesn't look overly semitic though. Copts are only arabised ancient Egyptians.

True, but she has Ghassanid ancestry, which makes her slightly different from the other ones. She clusters more so with Bedouins than anything based on her 23andme. To me she looks more Iraqi than say Egyptian, not saying she is not Egyptian, it just she looks more Semitic than Egyptian.

[Gaston]

Let's say Hamitic: Canaanites (indigenous of the Holy Land) were Hamitic people.

[Anglojew]

You look Levantine. Could pass in Lebanon.

[oblivion]

Let's say Hamitic: Canaanites (indigenous of the Holy Land) were Hamitic people.

So you say I look hamitic/canaanite?

[Sikeliot]

You could be southern Italian or Sicilian actually.

[justme]

Indian...

[randomguy1235]

Arabs usually think I am either Iraqi or Palestinian...

I'm gonna go with Egyptian Copt.

[randomguy1235]

You could be southern Italian or Sicilian actually.

Really? I would never assume she is. She looks distinctly MENA.

[Panormus]

You could be southern Italian or Sicilian actually.

i dont think she could

[Sikeliot]

i dont think she could

In fact in one of the photos here she could even pass in Spain.

[oblivion]

I'm gonna go with Egyptian Copt.

I didn't know that Egyptian Copts had a distinct look though...

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I didn't know that Egyptian Copts had a distinct look though...

Actually I've met quite a few recently and while there are some Egyptian muslims who look just like them, the Copts I met tend to have that very very Masri look that you cannot find outside egypt.. you however aren't one of those types lol.

[oblivion]

Actually I've met quite a few recently and while there are some Egyptian muslims who look just like them, the Copts I met tend to have that very very Masri look that you cannot find outside egypt.. you however aren't one of those types lol.

lol....I know that masri look...it's a aegyptid phenotype... like this:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83wc3TYYP1ruutazo1_500.jpg

[Sikeliot]

lol....I know that masri look...it's a aegyptid phenotype... like this:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83wc3TYYP1ruutazo1_500.jpg

That look has an African influence in it that stands out from people in say, Lebanon. You don't have that look though.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

lol....I know that masri look...it's a aegyptid phenotype... like this:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83wc3TYYP1ruutazo1_500.jpg

Pretty much... YOu can also see it in some Fayoum portraits for example these people:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3NmQKXTBT2Y/Tw8ujtI8aoI/AAAAAAAABiI/OHX-LORfFMM/s1600/585alsh3er.jpg
http://fizzii.tripod.com/fayum/fayumportraits/fresco-lady3rough.jpg

That's actually more like the look I am referring to.

[oblivion]

That look has an African influence in it that stands out from people in say, Lebanon. You don't have that look though.

I see the african but I can't quite put my finger on what exactly is african in her face..her nose maybe?

[oblivion]

Pretty much... YOu can also see it in some Fayoum portraits for example these people:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3NmQKXTBT2Y/Tw8ujtI8aoI/AAAAAAAABiI/OHX-LORfFMM/s1600/585alsh3er.jpg
http://fizzii.tripod.com/fayum/fayumportraits/fresco-lady3rough.jpg

That's actually more like the look I am referring to.
He reminds me of this guy who is Nubian actually:

http://i62.tinypic.com/sfl0d2.jpg

[Sikeliot]

I see the african but I can't quite put my finger on what exactly is african in her face..her nose maybe?

It's not blatant but compare her to a West Asian and you can see it.

[oblivion]

It's not blatant but compare her to a West Asian and you can see it.

Yes it's subtle...Her classification would be berberid?

[SardiniaAtlantis]

He reminds me of this guy who is Nubian actually:

http://i62.tinypic.com/sfl0d2.jpg

Not quite that guy has too much SSA. his face is too long also... not that many Egyptians dont have the long face but thats not the look I am on about. This guy besides pigmentation and some other things also has somewhat this Masri look.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/Media/News/2011/4/3/2011-634374365210447090-44.jpg

[StonyArabia]

Actually I've met quite a few recently and while there are some Egyptian muslims who look just like them, the Copts I met tend to have that very very Masri look that you cannot find outside egypt.. you however aren't one of those types lol.

She has significant Arabian ancestry, this why she clusters with Bedouins and probably looks more Iraqi than she looks Egyptian. Most Copts and Muslim Egyptians look distinctly Egyptian, I swear you can easily tell them apart from their neighbours.

[oblivion]

Not quite that guy has too much SSA. his face is too long also... not that many Egyptians dont have the long face but thats not the look I am on about. This guy besides pigmentation and some other things also has somewhat this Masri look.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/Media/News/2011/4/3/2011-634374365210447090-44.jpg

Really? On the contrary I find amr waked is more arab looking than most egyptians...He acted in House of Saddam the show...

http://i59.tinypic.com/34486ty.jpg

Adel Imam looks egyptian hahahah

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Really? On the contrary I find amr waked is more arab looking than most egyptians...He acted in House of Saddam the show...

http://i59.tinypic.com/34486ty.jpg

Adel Imam looks egyptian hahahah

I was about to add him as an example as well!! You see its not about the nose if we take that aside.. Its the proportions of the face shape. Chin and forehead mostly. As well as of course many times the eyes.

[StonyArabia]

Really? On the contrary I find amr waked is more arab looking than most egyptians...He acted in House of Saddam the show...

http://i59.tinypic.com/34486ty.jpg

Adel Imam looks egyptian hahahah

Yeah Adel Imam looks Pharonic I would say his look would be totally strange in Iraq or Arabia.

[oblivion]

I was about to add him as an example as well!! You see its not about the nose if we take that aside.. Its the proportions of the face shape. Chin and forehead mostly. As well as of course many times the eyes.

yes....this guy too...
http://i57.tinypic.com/vi3alt.jpg khaled el nabawy..excellent actor

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Saddam was an Arabized Kurd though.

From what I have understood this is partially true.

[oblivion]

From what I have understood this is partially true.

Really??? I thought Saddam said he was originally a descendant of the Prophet Mohamed and was so proud of his arabian roots...

[StonyArabia]

From what I have understood this is partially true.

Well he comes from Northern Iraq, and some people in his family had Kurdish names like Barzan for example which leads to this speculation. He also claimed to descent from Saladin.


Really??? I thought Saddam said he was originally a descendant of the Prophet Mohamed and was so proud of his arabian roots...

He claimed to descent from Saladin, and the prophet Muhammed, the latter is often made up lol.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

yes....this guy too...
http://i57.tinypic.com/vi3alt.jpg khaled el nabawy..excellent actor

Exactly... Lower face proportions really... Of course someone can still look pretty Masri with out that because there are different elements to the look that they might have but that altogether is very very typical of the Egyptian look. Low face proportions that appear somewhat wide as opposed to elongated..Its very much present in the ancient Egyptian statues as well. However you dont quite have that look and your 23andme results reflect that so I suppose you can trace your lineage at least a good portion of it elsewhere.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Well he comes from Northern Iraq, and some people in his family had Kurdish names like Barzan for example which leads to this speculation. He also claimed to descent from Saladin.

Well claiming descent from Saladin pretty much seals it. He was proud to be an Arab yes but he did believe in the idea of Arabization as well. His intent was to fully Arabize the Kurds or destroy them. So many hardships they went through because of it. Of course he was of Arabic descent as well not fully Kurdish in origin at all.

[oblivion]

Exactly... Lower face proportions really... Of course someone can still look pretty Masri with out that because there are different elements to the look that they might have but that altogether is very very typical of the Egyptian look. Low face proportions that appear somewhat wide as opposed to elongated..Its very much present in the ancient Egyptian statues as well. However you dont quite have that look and your 23andme results reflect that so I suppose you can trace your lineage at least a good portion of it elsewhere.

How do you know so many masris in your personal life? Also, how do you know the word masri lol?

[SardiniaAtlantis]

How do you know so many masris in your personal life? Also, how do you know the word masri lol?

Well I live in a huge city so there are people from all over. As someone interested in Anthropology and culture, naturally I interest myself in the people of the Mediterranean area being a Mediterranean person myself. I've devoted lots of time to getting to know each culture as well as I can. Of course living in a big city like I said I don't really have to go out of my way to meet all different sorts of people that happens naturally! :)

[StonyArabia]

Well claiming descent from Saladin pretty much seals it. He was proud to be an Arab yes but he did believe in the idea of Arabization as well. His intent was to fully Arabize the Kurds or destroy them. So many hardships they went through because of it. Of course he was of Arabic descent as well not fully Kurdish in origin at all.

He did in fact claim Saladinic lineage. Arabization is culture, well being Arab is of course different than being an Arabian. As you know Hejazis for example are mostly of non-Arab origins, but are called Arabs, but never seen as Arabians. I believe it's was more politics rather than Arabization really, it did in fact have that dynamic. He wanted them to be within the full confines of Iraq, but this was bound to be doomed from the start. The Kurds before all of this did have it better than any other region, they in fact had cultural and political autonomy. It's quite sad what nationalistc ideologies do to people.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

He did in fact claim Saladinic lineage. Arabization is culture, well being Arab is of course different than being an Arabian. As you know Hejazis for example are mostly of non-Arab origins, but are called Arabs, but never seen as Arabians. I believe it's was more politics rather than Arabization really, it did in fact have that dynamic. He wanted them to be within the full confines of Iraq, but this was bound to be doomed from the start. The Kurds before all of this did have it better than any other region, they in fact had cultural and political autonomy. He also brought Shia Bedouins who from Southern Iraq and moved them north, which angered the Kurds.

Yes I have heard a few personal stories from Kurds of what they went through at his hands... Traumatizing stuff really. It's hard to believe any person would do such things. I find so many negative outcomes of this notion of Arabization not only in Iraq, but in North Africa as well. You can see in many countries of North Africa berbers struggling to have their autonomy, or simply their way of life and language recognized against "Arabs" who are in actuality their kin.

[StonyArabia]

Yes I have heard a few personal stories from Kurds of what they went through at his hands... Traumatizing stuff really. It's hard to believe any person would do such things. I find so many negative outcomes of this notion of Arabization not only in Iraq, but in North Africa as well. You can see in many countries of North Africa berbers struggling to have their autonomy, or simply their way of life and language recognized against "Arabs" who are in actuality their kin.

Often Arabized people try to be more Arabs than the Arabs themselves. I have seen it actually which is comical to person who does actually from partial ethnic Arabian background. As for North Africa the ironic thing is that many of these people who are pushing Arabization are themselves of Berber origins, and some of them even know this, but for whatever reason they still do it. However ethnic Arabians are also forced to be Persianized and their cultural rights are limited, especially after Iran annexed the Arab islands in the Gulf in 1971, Arabic names are discouraged but Persian names are used. Arabic should only be used as theological language but before it was completely outlawed during the times of the Shah, but now at least it came back. Schools teach only Persian culture and Arabian culture and origins of the islands is not even given. So Arabs are also victims of this themselves, but this was mainly due to the rise of nationalistic ideals that were really alien to the region all around.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Often Arabized people try to be more Arabs than the Arabs themselves. I have seen it actually which is comical to person who does actually from partial ethnic Arabian background. As for North Africa the ironic thing is that many of these people who are pushing Arabization are themselves of Berber origins, and some of them even know this, but for whatever reason they still do it. However ethnic Arabians are also forced to be Persianized and their cultural rights are limited, especially after Iran annexed the Arab islands in the Gulf in 1971, Arabic names are discouraged but Persian names are used. Arabic should only be used as theological language but before it was completely outlawed during the times of the Shah, but now at least it came back. Schools teach only Persian culture and Arabian culture and origins of the islands is not even given. So Arabs are also victims of this themselves, but this was mainly due to the rise of nationalistic ideals that were really alien to the region all around.

Well many people in the islands are of Persian origin, I see them more as a mixed group really. As far as the North Africans go its funny to me how many times I have asked many North Africans if their family is of Berber origins and have been strictly told "No." Of course to them being berber means a completely different thing and they probably didnt understand the question, but I explained it very well.. Only one Moroccan told me frankly yes. Lol it's funny to me how I find only the authentic "Arab North Africans" given that they are such a small minority in actuality lol.

[StonyArabia]

Well many people in the islands are of Persian origin, I see them more as a mixed group really. As far as the North Africans go its funny to me how many times I have asked many North Africans if their family is of Berber origins and have been strictly told "No." Of course to them being berber means a completely different thing and they probably didnt understand the question, but I explained it very well.. Only one Moroccan told me frankly yes. Lol it's funny to me how I find only the authentic "Arab North Africans" given that they are such a small minority in actuality lol.

The islands were inhabited by Arabs but they were and are Persianized. Their Persianization was especially heavy during the Shah times. These people look Arabid as anyone else in the region. They are culturally closer to the Arabians than anything else, however during the Islamic revolution, these Arabs were happy to some extent as the Persianization methods were weakened. They also differ from Persians in a very important way they are Sunni and keep their tribal names. Now many of these people are proclaiming their Arab roots once again. Persians started migrating to the islands in the 1990's but before the population was majority of Arab Bedouin background, who were Persianized but kept an Arabic conscious, and now they once again have embraced their Arab roots. My phenotype is quite common there as well.

Yes the divide in North Africa is not even ethnic/racial but rather it's linguistic one. This divide is quite different from say the islands and Iran who are completely different people culturally, ethnically, and "racially" but the North Africans are all one and the same just speak different languages. Some of them are Arabized and totally got assimilated to the Arab identity, well others retain their Berber origins but still want to be Arab, well others are completely of Berber origins and want to keep their unique cultural identity. Personally I think they embrace their Berber identity as whole, and that ethnic Arabians often have nothing to do with the Arabization, as ironically it's often enforced by Arabized peoples some of them who even know it.

[randomguy1235]

I didn't know that Egyptian Copts had a distinct look though...

They don't. I just knew that you were the Egyptian Copt poster from ABF. You also look quite Egyptian (from the North of course).

[SardiniaAtlantis]

The islands were inhabited by Arabs but they were and are Persianized. Their Persianization was especially heavy during the Shah times. These people look Arabid as anyone else in the region. They are culturally closer to the Arabians than anything else, however during the Islamic revolution, these Arabs were happy to some extent as the Persianization methods were weakened. They also differ from Persians in a very important way they are Sunni and keep their tribal names. Now many of these people are proclaiming their Arab roots once again. Persians started migrating to the islands in the 1990's but before the population was majority of Arab Bedouin background, who were Persianized but kept an Arabic conscious, and now they once again have embraced their Arab roots. My phenotype is quite common there as well.

Yes the divide in North Africa is not even ethnic/racial but rather it's linguistic one. This divide is quite different from say the islands and Iran who are completely different people culturally, ethnically, and "racially" but the North Africans are all one and the same just speak different languages. Some of them are Arabized and totally got assimilated to the Arab identity, well others retain their Berber origins but still want to be Arab, well others are completely of Berber origins and want to keep their unique cultural identity. Personally I think they embrace their Berber identity as whole, and that ethnic Arabians often have nothing to do with the Arabization, as ironically it's often enforced by Arabized peoples some of them who even know it.

Of course I agree that is the way it works in North Africa. As far as the islands are concerned I am simply aware that due to the migrations of the 1990's there are many families that are partially persian in origin. As far as most of them being of Arab origin I agree, but the perso-arab mixed people do exist.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

They don't. I just knew that you were the Egyptian Copt poster from ABF. You also look quite Egyptian (from the North of course).
I don't think she looks typically egyptian though. she could pass outside of Egypt no problem.

[randomguy1235]

I don't think she looks typically egyptian though. she could pass outside of Egypt no problem.

I'm familiar with Egyptian phenotypes, and she looks ostensibly Egyptian in the images she posted.

[Gaston]

A lot of Copts are from Upper Egypt btw.

I think she looks North African and Middle Eastern.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I'm familiar with Egyptian phenotypes, and she looks ostensibly Egyptian in the images she posted.

I am familiar with them myself and she doesn't have the look that I would call definitely Egyptian. While yes she looks Egyptian, that does not mean she is the most Egyptian looking person there is.

[randomguy1235]

I am familiar with them myself and she doesn't have the look that I would call definitely Egyptian. While yes she looks Egyptian, that does not mean she is the most Egyptian looking person there is.

Oh I agree. I'm just stating that, if I were to see her on the street, that's what I'd assume.

[The King, I am]

Oh I agree. I'm just stating that, if I were to see her on the street, that's what I'd assume.

She looks somewhere between Sicilian and Egyptian

I would assume she was Egyptian too

But she could pass elsewhere easily

[randomguy1235]

She looks somewhere between Sicilian and Egyptian

I would assume she was Egyptian too

But she could pass elsewhere easily
I suppose so. I think she could possibly pass atypically in those regions.

[StonyArabia]

Of course I agree that is the way it works in North Africa. As far as the islands are concerned I am simply aware that due to the migrations of the 1990's there are many families that are partially persian in origin. As far as most of them being of Arab origin I agree, but the perso-arab mixed people do exist.

Yes there I am not saying they don't exist. However the majority is still ethnic Arabian Bedouin who have an uneasy relationship with the Iranian republic, but one has to admit it has improved much better than it was under the Shah. In fact during the Iran-Iraq war, the islands were one of the reasons stated for this. The situation under the Shah was quite terrible and the culture was gone, but it has made a strong comeback after his fall. Persian migration started in 1990's but the majority of these islands still inhabited by Arabs of Bedouin stock. The Persio-Arab mixes have name often like Ajami Arab which indicates their none native roots. These islands are Sunni and not Shia, for the simple reason they were never part of Persia and belonged to a different cultural element. Heck even their traditional clothes was limited they were made to Westernize, but this has all changed but there is some tension. I believe if they get full autonomy, there would be no hostility and ethnic tensions that often from time to time erupts in the Islands.

[Wadaad]

I thought you were Iraqi or Khaleeji...the man next to you in the 2nd photo definitely looks Egyptian, while you have a more pan-MENA look.

[StonyArabia]

I thought you were Iraqi or Khaleeji...the man next to you in the 2nd photo definitely looks Egyptian, while you have a more pan-MENA look.

She can easily pass in Iraq and the Gulf as a local

[Wadaad]

Well he comes from Northern Iraq, and some people in his family had Kurdish names like Barzan for example which leads to this speculation. He also claimed to descent from Saladin.



He claimed to descent from Saladin, and the prophet Muhammed, the latter is often made up lol.

Saladin was born in Tikrit, like Saddam...other than that, I've never heard (nor can I imagine) Saddam the epitome of a pan-Arab Baathist ever claiming Kurdish descent. Provide sources please

[StonyArabia]

Saladin was born in Tikrit, like Saddam...other than that, I've never heard (nor can I imagine) Saddam the epitome of a pan-Arab Baathist ever claiming Kurdish descent. Provide sources please

Yes he claimed desent from Saladin. Saladin was a Kurd, I never said he claimed to be of Kurdish lineage, but there is speculation among the Iraqis themselves, that he is of Arabized Kurdish background. Yes he did indeed claim a Saladinic lineage. Every Iraqi knows of this.

[JeanBaMac]

Middle Eastern... so i think "Semitic".

[oblivion]

I suppose so. I think she could possibly pass atypically in those regions.

So if I said I was Palestinian, no one would believe it?

[Yehiel]

So if I said I was Palestinian, no one would believe it?

I wouldnt

[oblivion]

I wouldnt

Why wouldnt you believe it?

[Yehiel]

Why wouldnt you believe it?

I meant that if you just walked up and said im Pali i would be surprised, you dont look like a typical Pali, I think you could pass in Gaza but not Judah & Shomron

[oblivion]

I meant that if you just walked up and said im Pali i would be surprised, you dont look like a typical Pali, I think you could pass in Gaza but not Judah & Shomron

So where would you think I was from?

[Yehiel]

So where would you think I was from?

North Africa

[Maleficent]

I'm just speculating here(although I think I'm right).....But when Oblivion says "Do I look Semitic or Hamitic?" what she's really trying to say is "Do I look more Middle Eastern or North African?" I understand in old school classic anthropological terms Hamite might refer to a pure Horn looking person, but it was still pretty funny to see some of you in the beginning of this thread saying "No you don't look Hamitic" and then posting a picture of a pure Aethiopid phenotype, when I doubt she was even inquiring if she looks Horner in the first place. I mean, I think it's pretty obvious by this woman's phenotype and DNA results that she does not have any recent ancestry from the Horn.....unless of course, you people are blind.

Anyway, to truly answer the question at hand here, no she doesn't look stereotypically North African(in the Maghrebian sense). So definitely Semitic/Egyptian type. She's very much an Alpinized Arabid/East-Med phenotype. And she's obviously a mixture of mainly Southern Levantine, Egyptian, and Arabian based on her DNA results.

[Smeagol]

Alpinized Semitic-Mediterranid blend.

[Weedman]

you look like a daughter of Shem.................with mixed Alpine features

[oblivion]

I'm just speculating here(although I think I'm right).....But when Oblivion says "Do I look Semitic or Hamitic?" what she's really trying to say is "Do I look more Middle Eastern or North African?" I understand in old school classic anthropological terms Hamite might refer to a pure Horn looking person, but it was still pretty funny to see some of you in the beginning of this thread saying "No you don't look Hamitic" and then posting a picture of a pure Aethiopid phenotype, when I doubt she was even inquiring if she looks Horner in the first place. I mean, I think it's pretty obvious by this woman's phenotype and DNA results that she does not have any recent ancestry from the Horn.....unless of course, you people are blind.

Anyway, to truly answer the question at hand here, no she doesn't look stereotypically North African(in the Maghrebian sense). So definitely Semitic/Egyptian type. She's very much an Alpinized Arabid/East-Med phenotype. And she's obviously a mixture of mainly Southern Levantine, Egyptian, and Arabian based on her DNA results.

You got it right on the money! Faerie ur awesome!

[oblivion]

Do I have any sub saharan features?

[Iroczor]

Do I have any sub saharan features?

I don't think you do as I have said this earlier.

[Isleño]

You kinda look intermediate. At first I thought North Africa, but maybe more toward the Middle East.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Semitic, mostly.

[Dombra]

Semetic

[oblivion]

Bump

[Hubal]

Semetic

[Instinct]

Semitic

[oblivion]

Bump

[oblivion]

Bump and please state why.. This is for a paper

[Gustave H]

Semitic. Not bad..For a Semite.

[oblivion]

Semitic. Not bad..For a Semite.

What do you mean not bad for a semite? Also what would you consider "semitic" looking in my face.

[oblivion]

I just need someone to identify what features in my face are semitic.... I would highly appreciate it!

[Peter Nirsch]

You look Italian or Middle eastern or Turkish.

[StonyArabia]

I just need someone to identify what features in my face are semitic.... I would highly appreciate it!

Your whole features are Semitic the eyes, nose and skin color. The Semitic look is associated with the Arabian look or the Arabid. The Arabid is a gracile Med that's adapted to the Desert. Today Bedouins and Yemeni Jews represent the best example of this race. The Semities originated in Arabia . That said you look similar to many ChristianBedouins in Jordan and Bedouins in general.

[Tommy199]

Semitic

[Gaston]

Shem and Ham never existed, so I don't understand the question.

[oblivion]

Shem and Ham never existed, so I don't understand the question.

Do I look more arabian or north african?

[oblivion]

Your whole features are Semitic the eyes, nose and skin color. The Semitic look is associated with the Arabian look or the Arabid. The Arabid is a gracile Med that's adapted to the Desert. Today Bedouins and Yemeni Jews represent the best example of this race. The Semities originated in Arabia . That said you look similar to many ChristianBedouins in Jordan and Bedouins in general.

I also think I look bedouin and a lot of egyptians can pass for bedouin but a lot of egyptians also look distinctly hamitic or "pharonic". I am writing a paper on different phenotypes and ethnic groups in Egypt and need to identify what features are distinctly semitic or arabid and I think thick eyebrows that are close together with big eyes are the main difference incomparison to hamites.

[Gaston]

Do I look more arabian or north african?

People from Canaan were considered Hamites, some people of the Horn were considered Hamites, some from Mesopotamia too. It wasn't just directed to North Africans.

[oblivion]

People from Canaan were considered Hamites, some people of the Horn were considered Hamites, some from Mesopotamia too. It wasn't just directed to North Africans.

Ok so just classify me then :)

[oblivion]

Bump

[StonyArabia]

I also think I look bedouin and a lot of egyptians can pass for bedouin but a lot of egyptians also look distinctly hamitic or "pharonic". I am writing a paper on different phenotypes and ethnic groups in Egypt and need to identify what features are distinctly semitic or arabid and I think thick eyebrows that are close together with big eyes are the main difference incomparison to hamites.

Yes that's correct, the Bedouin type is more Arabid/Araboid a small type of gracile Med, and often associated with the Semitic speaking people, and also believed to be the origins of the proto-Semites. Well Hamitic phenotype are those that are more North African like South Med, Agypetid, and Berberid. The Hamites look more like Meds but with some exotic touch, well Semites look Arabid. You can pass as Arabian yes.

[Fenrald]

anyone else?

I will say Semitic looking but not not completely because in the same time I seen some minor Hamitic features, you can pass easily in North India, Pakistan, Egypt, Irak, Syria, Jordan and of course Israel/Palestina, you will look more out of place in North Africa, imo.

[StonyArabia]

I will say Semitic looking but not not completely because in the same time I seen some minor Hamitic features, you can pass easily in North India, Pakistan, Egypt, Irak, Syria, Jordan and of course Israel/Palestina, you will look more out of place in North Africa, imo.

Yes she looks more west Asian than North African to be specific southwest Asian.

[randomguy1235]

I will say Semitic looking but not not completely because in the same time I seen some minor Hamitic features, you can pass easily in North India, Pakistan, Egypt, Irak, Syria, Jordan and of course Israel/Palestina, you will look more out of place in North Africa, imo.

If she passes there she cannot pass in all those other regions of the Near East.

[oblivion]

I will say Semitic looking but not not completely because in the same time I seen some minor Hamitic features, you can pass easily in North India, Pakistan, Egypt, Irak, Syria, Jordan and of course Israel/Palestina, you will look more out of place in North Africa, imo.

What minor features would you say are hamitic?

[oblivion]

If she passes there she cannot pass in all those other regions of the Near East.

I have been mistaken for Indian or Pakistani but only by white people who are maybe not as familiarized with these phenotypes. Arabs always know I am middle eastern but guess different countries. Maghrebis always think I am Levantine, Egyptiand think I am Levantine, levantines think I am a Gulf arab and Gulf arabs think I am one of their own.

[oblivion]

Yes that's correct, the Bedouin type is more Arabid/Araboid a small type of gracile Med, and often associated with the Semitic speaking people, and also believed to be the origins of the proto-Semites. Well Hamitic phenotype are those that are more North African like South Med, Agypetid, and Berberid. The Hamites look more like Meds but with some exotic touch, well Semites look Arabid. You can pass as Arabian yes.


The other day I met an Egyptian bedouin from the Sawarka tribe and told me I look very Bedouin.

[StonyArabia]

I have been mistaken for Indian or Pakistani but only by white people who are maybe not as familiarized with these phenotypes. Arabs always know I am middle eastern but guess different countries. Maghrebis always think I am Levantine, Egyptiand think I am Levantine, levantines think I am a Gulf arab and Gulf arabs think I am one of their own.

Same thing happens to me lol. Yes you look Arabian or Bedouin so I see why they would think that. So what do you think of us Bedouins ?

[oblivion]

Same thing happens to me lol. Yes you look Arabian or Bedouin so I see why they would think that. So what do you think of us Bedouins ?

Beautiful people and culture. They all seem to be so happy and relaxed all the time. He is also so proud of who he is and heritage. Lovely people.

[StonyArabia]

Beautiful people and culture. They all seem to be so happy and relaxed all the time. He is also so proud of who he is and heritage. Lovely people.

That's good to hear, all of us Bedouins are relaxed and often try to make best of the situation that fate gives us. There is a lot of misinformation about our culture and heavy assimilation policies that sadly target us mostly. If people treat us well, they have made true loyal friends. Though one good and bad habit we tend to be very generous, this when people realize I
am not from the subcontinent of India lol. One time this white guy he is like you are one of the most generous Indian people I met, I am dude iam not Indian but an Iraqi Bedouin. He was shocked lol, by my nature I am a giver and not stingy at all.

[oblivion]

That's good to hear, all of us Bedouins are relaxed and often try to make best of the situation that fate gives us. There is a lot of misinformation about our culture and heavy assimilation policies that sadly target us mostly. If people treat us well, they have made true loyal friends. Though one good and bad habit we tend to be very generous, this when people realize I
am not from the subcontinent of India lol. One time this white guy he is like you are one of the most generous Indian people I met, I am dude iam not Indian but an Iraqi Bedouin. He was shocked lol, by my nature I am a giver and not stingy at all.

I am a firm believer that one of the most generous people on earth are the bedouins. They are warm, hospitable and generous and loyal. No one can compare to that at least not from people I have met.

[Dani Cutie]

Semitic.

[oblivion]

Is semitic a common facial element in egypt?

[randomguy1235]

Is semitic a common facial element in egypt?

Not very, although it's not too uncommon either.

[Shah-Jehan]

Semitic...?

[oblivion]

Semitic...?

Is that a question?

[Shah-Jehan]

Is that a question?

No, I was hesitant to put it, because Semities (Arabs, Jews etc) and Hamites (Berbers, Egyptians etc) were not that much different in looks and today, both are outdated terms in describing looks. I think the Hamites also include Cushitic peoples such as Ethiopians and Somalis, so, I thought you "look more Semite".

[Gooding]

Semitic.

[oblivion]

No, I was hesitant to put it, because Semities (Arabs, Jews etc) and Hamites (Berbers, Egyptians etc) were not that much different in looks and today, both are outdated terms in describing looks. I think the Hamites also include Cushitic peoples such as Ethiopians and Somalis, so, I thought you "look more Semite".

Ya but the semite of today would look more like an arabian/bedouin and a hamite more like the average berber or egyptian so I want to know in your opinion which I look more like.

[Demhat]

No, I was hesitant to put it, because Semities (Arabs, Jews etc) and Hamites (Berbers, Egyptians etc) were not that much different in looks and today, both are outdated terms in describing looks. I think the Hamites also include Cushitic peoples such as Ethiopians and Somalis, so, I thought you "look more Semite".

Egyptian, Berber do not belong to the Hamitic group. I think you mistook somethings. Hamitic is an outdated terminology for Cushitic speakers. Soley based on linguistics ancient Egyptian is closer to Semitic than Cushitic or even Berber.

There are four groups of Afro_Asiatic speakers. Semite, ancient Egyptian, Berber and Cushite.

Egyptian is clothest to Semitic and Berber. Among these closer to Semitic than Berber. And at third place to Cushitic.

Classification


Egyptian belongs to the Afroasiatic language family.[4] Among the typological features of Egyptian that are typically Afroasiatic are: fusional morphology, consonantal lexical roots, a series of emphatic consonants, a three-vowel system /a i u/, nominal feminine suffix *-at, nominal m-, adjectival *-ī, and characteristic personal verbal affixes.[4] Of the other Afroasiatic branches, Egyptian shows its greatest affinities with Semitic, and to a lesser extent Cushitic.[5]


No wonder Egyptians show often Eastern Med/Arabid features.

[oblivion]

Egyptian, Berber do not belong to the Hamitic group. I think you mistook somethings. Hamitic is an outdated terminology for Cushitic speakers. Soley based on linguistics ancient Egyptian is closer to Semitic than Cushitic or even Berber.

There are four groups of Afro_Asiatic speakers. Semite, ancient Egyptian, Berber and Cushite.

Egyptian is clothest to Semitic and Berber. Among these slightly closer to Semitic than Berber. And at third place to Cushitic.

Classification




No wonder Egyptians show often Eastern Med/Arabid features.

I am confused. I read in several placed that most egyptians exhibit hamitic features and have their own classification of aegyptid.

[Demhat]

@Oblivion Don't surf too much in AfroAmerican_Centric websites. Ancient Egypt is a loved playground for these kind of people, you will find many crap about them.

The fact of the matter is ancient Egypt= modern Egypt. Modern Egyptians have historically a clear connection to the Levant. Later came the connection to Hamitic speakers too, with the conquest of Nubians on Egypt. But in total Egyptians are closst to Semites than Berbers and than to Cushites.

[aleppo]

you look indian/Pakistani to me.

[TheForeigner]

Definetly Near Eastern Semite look.

[TheForeigner]

Hamitic language family is also no longer a valid linguistic unit. No such thing. And what would Hamitic looking even mean?

[Demhat]

Hamitic language family is also no longer a valid linguistic unit. No such thing. And what would Hamitic looking even mean?

Ham was an ancient term meant to decribe All the sons of Noah who lived in Africa. No matter if Berber,Egyptian and Cushite. So this is why the term makes no sense in modern view.

[TheForeigner]

Ham was an ancient term meant to decribe All the sons of Noah who lived in Africa. No matter if Berber,Egyptian and Cushite. So this is why the term makes no sense in modern view.

Yes but in the modern age it described also a language family in Africa, until recently.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic#Hamitic_language_family

[TheForeigner]

Ham was an ancient term meant to decribe All the sons of Noah who lived in Africa. No matter if Berber,Egyptian and Cushite. So this is why the term makes no sense in modern view.

And it also referred to a mulatto like race in Northeastern Africa.

[Gaston]

Not all sons of Ham were Africans. Some Asians too were sons of Ham like the people of Canaan and Hittites (who are Indo-European). There was no racial nor geological basis for "Hamitic people".

[Yuffayur]

Semitic and Hamitic are fictif words, they are religious nothing more ;)

[Sonnenmensch]

What phenotype could be considered as Hamitic? Maybe Aegyptid?

[oblivion]

I see all of your points and both terms do seem outdated. I guess what I really meant was do I look more middle eastern or north african...do I look more arabid or berid. Would that be more accurate?

[MisterGaga]

You look Coptic Egyptian , just type Coptic on the Google. You could pass in much of the MENA/Arab regions.

[Demhat]

Not all sons of Ham were Africans. Some Asians too were sons of Ham like the people of Canaan and Hittites (who are Indo-European). There was no racial nor geological basis for "Hamitic people".

Hittites together with the Indo Europeans were counted under the sons of Japeth.

[Demhat]

I see all of your points and both terms do seem outdated. I guess what I really meant was do I look more middle eastern or north african...do I look more arabid or berid. Would that be more accurate?

The question was already answered I think. Egypt was always the crossroad of Northeast Africa to the Middle East. Egyptians as such look often like Middle Easterners. So conclusion you look both Egyptian as well Middle Eastern. If you ask if you are one of those Egyptians who look more Semitic, Berber or Cushite admixed. I would rather say Semitic.

[MisterGaga]

..............

[oblivion]

Egypt is less diverse than Maghreb.

I have seen more Algerians who pass in Levant , Turkey and as far as Caucasus regions than I have seen Egyptian who would fit especially in the two latters.

Check out those Kabyle Berbers , a large part of them can fit in Levant , Turkey , Caucasus.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5736844/1/

The OP girl fit in Tunisia/Libya easy where the Coptic look is common.
I dont think I fit in tunisia or libya... Tunisians look more mediterranean I find. Copts are a weird breed because we don't necessarily have one specific look... I would say the closest phenotype is levantine... Copts often mistake me for arabian or palestinian

[Demhat]

Egypt is less diverse than Maghreb.

I have seen more Algerians who pass in Levant , Turkey and as far as Caucasus regions than I have seen Egyptian who would fit especially in the two latters.

Check out those Kabyle Berbers , a large part of them can fit in Levant , Turkey , Caucasus.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5736844/1/

The OP girl fit in Tunisia/Libya easy where the Coptic look is not rare.

between Phenotype and Genotype there is no 100% equality. Tunisians/Libyians have certanly less Middle Eastern admixture but they live in higher latitude and have created a stabile Mediterranean phenotype through hundreds of years of selection.

All North Africans have around 15-22% SSA but phenotypically they look close to 100% West Eurasian for most part, because their SSA admixed has merged together with their West Eurasian ancestry and has created a stabilized look in which their much bigger West Eurasian admixture started to dominate their phenotype

[Gaston]

Hittites together with the Indo Europeans were counted under the sons of Japeth.

I don't think so. People didn't know shit about linguistic back then, "Indo-European" was an unknown concept. "Europe" didn't even exist..

Almost all of the Levant was thought to be Hamitic. Even what was is now Mesopotamia and the slope of the Zagros range.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/iam733_photos/ISRAEL/Middle_East_Shem_Ham_Map.jpg
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/images/RTGham1.jpg

[Demhat]

I don't think so. People didn't know shit about linguistic back then, "Indo-European" was an unknown concept. "Europe" didn't even exist..

Almost all of the Levant was thought to be Hamitic. Even what was is now Mesopotamia and the slope of the Zagros range.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/iam733_photos/ISRAEL/Middle_East_Shem_Ham_Map.jpg
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/images/RTGham1.jpg

Well the Hittites in Canaan and the Levant were put under the "Ham" cluster but the Levant wasn't their homeland. They seem to have been put simply together with the other people of the region. Hittites from their homeland weren't considered Ham as far as I know but sons of Japeth like the Madai(Medes), Ashkenaz(Scythians?) and Gomer (Cimmerians?).

But I agree the whole concept of Ham, Shem and Japeth is nonsense. How can Elam and Uruk/Sumerians (non Semites) be more Semite than Semites themselves?

[oblivion]

In egypt you have what I would consider the classical egyptian type
http://i61.tinypic.com/2r3ugyp.jpg

And the more semitic/arabid type
http://i58.tinypic.com/ie4l1k.jpg

I also noticed quentessential egyptian types are non-hairy

[oblivion]

Bump

[oblivion]

Anyone else

[randomguy1235]

between Phenotype and Genotype there is no 100% equality. Tunisians/Libyians have certanly less Middle Eastern admixture but they live in higher latitude and have created a stabile Mediterranean phenotype through hundreds of years of selection.

All North Africans have around 15-22% SSA but phenotypically they look close to 100% West Eurasian for most part, because their SSA admixed has merged together with their West Eurasian ancestry and has created a stabilized look in which their much bigger West Eurasian admixture started to dominate their phenotype

No, not at all. Most North Africans look very distinct from West Asians. How extensive is your experience with them?

[Smeagol]

No, not at all. Most North Africans look very distinct from West Asians. How extensive is your experience with them?

Most North Africans look Caucasoid.

[randomguy1235]

Most North Africans look Caucasoid.

Usually with visible SSA admixture. Regardless, they still look distinct from most West Asian populations

[Smeagol]

Usually with visible SSA admixture.

Prove it.

[randomguy1235]

Prove it.

Dude, you do know they're 15-22% SSA admixed on average, right? Much of that componenet is ancient, but there has also been substantial recent SSA due to the "Arab" slave trade.

[Sikeliot]

Usually with visible SSA admixture. Regardless, they still look distinct from most West Asian populations

Yes, this is true. Egyptians and Moroccans at least look distinguishable from West Asians. Sometimes it's harder to tell Tunisians and Algerians because they seem to have less SSA, and also, Moroccans have a distinctive Berid/Berberid sort of look that is less common in the others.

[Smeagol]

Dude, you do know they're 15-22% SSA admixed on average, right? Much of that componenet is ancient, but there has also been substantial recent SSA due to the "Arab" slave trade.

Crowd pictures show most as fully Caucasoid looking and people like Gilgamesh and Nabatea who have lived in/been to North Africa agree. That ssa is mostly very ancient and from a Capoid population rather then modern negroid.

[randomguy1235]

Crowd pictures show most as fully Caucasoid looking and people like Gilgamesh and Nabatea who have lived in/been to North Africa agree. That ssa is mostly very ancient and from a Capoid population rather then modern negroid.

It doesn't matter if they look "Caucasoid"...Palestinians and Swedes are both Caucasoid by definition using that antiquated label, yet we look nothing alike. Similarly, North Africans and West Asians look quite distinct.

[Sikeliot]

Crowd pictures show most as fully Caucasoid looking and people like Gilgamesh and Nabatea who have lived in/been to North Africa agree. That ssa is mostly very ancient and from a Capoid population rather then modern negroid.

Crowd photos show a lot of mixture IMO. Look up 'Egyptian crowds' and post people who look 100% Caucasoid, I am curious to see. I can't find any.

[StonyArabia]

Crowd pictures show most as fully Caucasoid looking and people like Gilgamesh and Nabatea who have lived in/been to North Africa agree. That ssa is mostly very ancient and from a Capoid population rather then modern negroid.

I have lived in Libya and the people there were Caucasoid sure, with light brown to olive skin. The same is true of Tunisia and Algeria and Morocco, however these countries are also ethnically diverse. For example the Toureg are admixed with SSA, well the Arabized Berbers and the Berber speakers have ancient genes that are derived from the ancient African population and it's not modern. In Libya there is also the Tubo who are SSA admixed Afro-Asiatic peoples. Yes North Africans have an overlap with all other Afro-Asiatic populations, to deny this is foolishness. Not mention North Africa was always connected to the Levant and is intertwined historically. I know many Libyans who can pass in various parts of the West Asian part of the Middle East, but yes there is of course going to be distinctive vibe, but to say there is no overlap is laughable. Afro-Asiatic or Arab speaking Middle Easterners overlap first with North Africans before anyone else, if anyone think otherwise they have not been in the region at all.

[oblivion]

I have lived in Libya and the people there were Caucasoid sure, with light brown to olive skin. The same is true of Tunisia and Algeria and Morocco, however these countries are also ethnically diverse. For example the Toureg are admixed with SSA, well the Arabized Berbers and the Berber speakers have ancient genes that are derived from the ancient African population and it's not modern. In Libya there is also the Tubo who are SSA admixed Afro-Asiatic peoples. Yes North Africans have an overlap with all other Afro-Asiatic populations, to deny this is foolishness. Not mention North Africa was always connected to the Levant and is intertwined historically. I know many Libyans who can pass in various parts of the West Asian part of the Middle East, but yes there is of course going to be distinctive vibe, but to say there is no overlap is laughable. Afro-Asiatic or Arab speaking Middle Easterners overlap first with North Africans before anyone else, if anyone think otherwise they have not been in the region at all.

Do libyans look like Egyptians or not really?

[MisterGaga]

Dude, you do know they're 15-22% SSA admixed on average, right? Much of that componenet is ancient, but there has also been substantial recent SSA due to the "Arab" slave trade.

Thereis African admixture in the Levant both ancient and recent you tend to think it is not the case but , you are not free of any African admixture, you are not Armenian or Georgian which are the least African affected in West Asia.

Palestinians are closer genetically to Egyptians and Maghrebis than they are to Armenians , Turks and Iranians.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af183/EliasAlucard/Genomics/EliasAlucard_Full_20111006234958BGA2.png

[MisterGaga]

. Yes North Africans have an overlap with all other Afro-Asiatic populations, to deny this is foolishness. Not mention North Africa was always connected to the Levant and is intertwined historically. I know many Libyans who can pass in various parts of the West Asian part of the Middle East, but yes there is of course going to be distinctive vibe, but to say there is no overlap is laughable. Afro-Asiatic or Arab speaking Middle Easterners overlap first with North Africans before anyone else, if anyone think otherwise they have not been in the region at all.

+1 very true. There must be a reason why they all speak the same language family at the end of the day.

But don't tell that to randomguy , he thinks he is closer to Greeks and Italians :lol:

[randomguy1235]

Thereis African admixture in the Levant both ancient and recent you tend to think it is not the case but , you are not free of any African admixture, you are not Armenian or Georgian which are the least African affected in West Asia.

Palestinians are closer genetically to Egyptians and Maghrebis than they are to Armenians , Turks and Iranians.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af183/EliasAlucard/Genomics/EliasAlucard_Full_20111006234958BGA2.png

There is ancient admix in the Levant, but it is much less than in North Africa. Also, the Egyptians they sampled are from the North, who are more Caucasoid and ancient Levantine influenced on average.

[randomguy1235]

+1 very true. There must be a reason why they all speak the same language family at the end of the day.

But don't tell that to randomguy , he thinks he is closer to Greeks and Italians :lol:

Where have I ever said this? Show me proof or don't make bullshit statements. Italians on this board need to stop being so paranoid.

[StonyArabia]

Thereis African admixture in the Levant both ancient and recent you tend to think it is not the case but , you are not free of any African admixture, you are not Armenian or Georgian which are the least African affected in West Asia.

Palestinians are closer genetically to Egyptians and Maghrebis than they are to Armenians , Turks and Iranians.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af183/EliasAlucard/Genomics/EliasAlucard_Full_20111006234958BGA2.png

There is a large genetic difference between the West Asian non-Arab speakers like Armenians, Turks and Iranians, and those that are Arab speakers. Arab speakers seem to have more or less interacted this can be shown in their genetics. It's a fact that Palestinians are much closer to North African and Arabian populations than to Turks or Iranians or anyone else for that matter. Turks and Iranians are close to each other, but they are not very close to any Arab speaking ethnic group. Palestine has a lot of Bedouin admixture and tribes living it in it, which shifts the Palestinians toward Yemenite Jews.

[Kamal900]

There is a large genetic difference between the West Asian non-Arab speakers like Armenians, Turks and Iranians, and those that are Arab speakers. Arab speakers seem to have more or less interacted this can be shown in their genetics. It's a fact that Palestinians are much closer to North African and Arabian populations than to Turks or Iranians or anyone else for that matter. Turks and Iranians are close to each other, but they are not very close to any Arab speaking ethnic group. Palestine has a lot of Bedouin admixture and tribes living it in it, which shifts the Palestinians toward Yemenite Jews.

Yes.

[Peter Nirsch]

you look Italian to me, where are you from?

[StonyArabia]

Do libyans look like Egyptians or not really?

The eastern Libyans look somewhat like Egyptians, but western Libyans look more Berberish. They are pred Caucasoid people either way.

[Kamal900]

Thereis African admixture in the Levant both ancient and recent you tend to think it is not the case but , you are not free of any African admixture, you are not Armenian or Georgian which are the least African affected in West Asia.

Palestinians are closer genetically to Egyptians and Maghrebis than they are to Armenians , Turks and Iranians.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af183/EliasAlucard/Genomics/EliasAlucard_Full_20111006234958BGA2.png

Accroding to the spread sheets Longbowman sent me, the average SSA admixture in Palestinians is 7.8 percent. Yes, we are on the same genetic branch with other afro-asiatic peoples than to Turks or Persians:

"A 2013 study of Haber and et al. found that "The predominantly Muslim populations of Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians cluster on branches with other Muslim populations as distant as Morocco and Yemen." The authors explained that "religious affiliation had a strong impact on the genomes of the Levantines. In particular, conversion of the region's populations to Islam appears to have introduced major rearrangements in populations' relations through admixture with culturally similar but geographically remote populations leading to genetic similarities between remarkably distant populations." The authors also reconstructed the genetic structure of pre-Islamic Levant and found that "it was more genetically similar to Europeans than to Middle Easterners."

"Only 25 randomly selected samples from each Lebanese group were used in order to avoid population size biases (Figure S3). The plots reveal a Levantine structure not reported previously: Lebanese Christians and all Druze cluster together, and Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins. Ashkenazi Jews are drawn towards the Caucasus and Eastern Europe, reflecting historical admixture events with Europeans, while Sephardi Jews cluster tightly with the Levantine groups. These results are consistent with previous studies reporting higher European genome-wide admixture in Ashkenazi Jews compared with other Jews [11] and higher Y-chromosomal gene flow to Lebanese Muslims from the Arabian Peninsula compared with other Lebanese [5]."

"The population tree (Figure 3A) splits Levantine populations in two branches: one leading to Europeans and Central Asians that includes Lebanese, Armenians, Cypriots, Druze and Jews, as well as Turks, Iranians and Caucasian populations; and a second branch composed of Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, as well as North Africans, Ethiopians, Saudis, and Bedouins."

"The tree shows a correlation between religion and the population structures in the Levant: all Jews (Sephardi and Ashkenazi) cluster in one branch; Druze from Mount Lebanon and Druze from Mount Carmel are depicted on a private branch; and Lebanese Christians form a private branch with the Christian populations of Armenia and Cyprus placing the Lebanese Muslims as an outer group. The predominantly Muslim populations of Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians cluster on branches with other Muslim populations as distant as Morocco and Yemen. It should be noted here that the results depend significantly on populations included in the analysis as well as recent admixture events, and so should be treated as an approximate guide to similarity, rather than a full population history."

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?156094-Genome-Wide-Diversity-in-the-Levant-Reveals-Recent-Structuring-by-Culture

[oblivion]

These spreadsheets show how Egyptians cluster with middle easterns more than anything else.

[Thunder_shock]

Semitic.
Hamitic refers to a black skinned caucausian. Coon used it to classify the horners. But it's regarded as bogus scientifically. Horners are not caucasian/caucasoid.

[masria]

Oh okay, i thought we were grouping Semites with the Levantines so never mind.

Yes you're right Levantines are Semites.. Like Assyrian are Semites too.

Yemeni Jews are mixed with Arabid.

[Ballist]

You look like a Peruvian-Indian mix.

[oblivion]

You look like a Peruvian-Indian mix.

Wow no one's said that to me before.

[oblivion]

http://i62.tinypic.com/eq36mh.jpg

Forget the tired eyes... .. Thoughts?

[dude]

Semitic, you can pass as Israeli.

[Rose]

what is hamitic?i know semitic is a language group

[oblivion]

[QUOTE=Rose;3505125]what is hamitic?i know semitic is a language group[/QUOTE

This is may not be academically accurate but basically I am asking if I look more arabian/jewish or do I look more moroccan/northafrican.

[oblivion]

[QUOTE=Rose;3505125]what is hamitic?i know semitic is a language group[/QUOTE

This is may not be academically accurate but basically I am asking if I look more arabian/jewish or do I look more moroccan/northafrican.

[Alan Weiss]

Can you post a recording of your voice?
Only then can I tell if you speak a SEMITIC LANGUAGE.
As far as looking "Semitic" are you referring to the white Semites in Malta or the black Semites in Ethiopia and the Sudan?

[randomguy1235]

This is may not be academically accurate but basically I am asking if I look more arabian/jewish or do I look more moroccan/northafrican.

Arabian and Jewish are mutally exclusive. They look very different usually, unless you're referring to Yemeni Jews.

[oblivion]

Can you post a recording of your voice?
Only then can I tell if you speak a SEMITIC LANGUAGE.
As far as looking "Semitic" are you referring to the white Semites in Malta or the black Semites in Ethiopia and the Sudan?
For the sake of keeping things simple, you can just classify me in the way you see fit.

[Alan Weiss]

You could easily fit in southern Europe,north Africa,turkey and the levant.
You look white to me.
And you have a kind and caring face.

[armenianbodyhair]

East med stronk

[oblivion]

You could easily fit in southern Europe,north Africa,turkey and the levant.
You look white to me.
And you have a kind and caring face.
You're sweet. Thank you!

[oblivion]

Anyone wanna classify my new pic on the other page?

[SKYNET]

you don't look indian, you look med east

[oblivion]

you don't look indian, you look med east

Whats the difference between east med and arabid

[SKYNET]

Whats the difference between east med and arabid




i don't see any difference between them

[Green]

semitic, Siria, Lebanon

[oblivion]

Bump

[Seth MacFarlane]

Semite but what is your ethnicity?

[Seth MacFarlane]

Arabian and Jewish are mutally exclusive. They look very different usually, unless you're referring to Yemeni Jews.

Although I've seen some Palestinian Christians who look extremely jewish. I wonder if they are still considered Arab by you though because they defintly don't look it besides their language . Probbaly ancient judean Dna

[randomguy1235]

Although I've seen some Palestinian Christians who look extremely jewish. I wonder if they are still considered Arab by you though because they defintly don't look it besides their language . Probbaly ancient judean Dna

"Arab" as in ethnic Arab from the Arabian peninsula, not Levantine Arab populations who are only linguistically Arab.

[oblivion]

Semite but what is your ethnicity?

I am Egyotian and Egyptians are regarded as hamitic but you and everyobe else say I look semitic so what makes a face look more semitic thab hamitic by physical standards and not include the color of the skin..

[Kamal900]

I am Egyotian and Egyptians are regarded as hamitic but you and everyobe else say I look semitic so what makes a face look more semitic thab hamitic by physical standards and not include the color of the skin..

There's no such thing as "Hamitic" race, and the same can be said about Semites as well. You can pass in Palestine with no trouble whatsoever.

[Ultra]

"Arab" as in ethnic Arab from the Arabian peninsula, not Levantine Arab populations who are only linguistically Arab.
Stop trolling please.

[Thunder_shock]

There's no such thing as "Hamitic" race, and the same can be said about Semites as well. You can pass in Palestine with no trouble whatsoever.
I think if hamitic is ever is used in any scientific circles it would be used to designate the principle Caucasian component in Egyptians.

[Seth MacFarlane]

I am Egyotian and Egyptians are regarded as hamitic but you and everyobe else say I look semitic so what makes a face look more semitic thab hamitic by physical standards and not include the color of the skin..

well to be honest hamitics just look east African . You don't look extremely semitic to me in a way anyway either. actually a lot of actual arabs don't really look semtic to me as funny as it sounds. when somebody looks semitic to me they look jewish ,Levantine or Assyrian or even sicilan because it occurs there too at times . that's why even the most semitic looking people I know would look a lil strange in gulf arab countries. you really just look Egyptian I knew you was too lol idk why I asked.

[Gaston]

I think if hamitic is ever is used in any scientific circles it would be used to designate the principle Caucasian component in Egyptians.

Not even because there is no "caucasian" component. Modern "caucasoids" are genetically diverse and are the result of rather recent mixes of divergent populations that we could even call "races" for the sake of clarity.



well to be honest hamitics just look east African . You don't look extremely semitic to me in a way anyway either. actually a lot of actual arabs don't really look semtic to me as funny as it sounds. when somebody looks semitic to me they look jewish ,Levantine or Assyrian or even sicilan because it occurs there too at times . that's why even the most semitic looking people I know would look a lil strange in gulf arab countries. you really just look Egyptian I knew you was too lol idk why I asked.

No. It's clear ancient Levantine's known world wasn't very big and that Hamitic and Japethic designated West Asians mostly.

[Seth MacFarlane]

Not even because there is no "caucasian" component. Modern "caucasoids" are genetically diverse and are the result of rather recent mixes of divergent populations that we could even call "races" for the sake of clarity
No. It's clear ancient Levantine's known world wasn't very big and that Hamitic and Japethic designated West Asians mostly.

Never heard of japethic but I'm not disagreeing with what your saying and it doesent really have much to do with what I was saying really no offense. Saying someone looks Semitic could be controversial but I'll give a good example. This women is a Assyrian ( ancient Semitic people) but also looks Jewish ( ancient Semitic people) Levantine especially Lebanese ( Semitic ) and Sicilian ( blood from phoenicians who were Semitic ). This what I mean when I say Semitic look http://www.attiya.nl/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/attiyagamriwebsite.jpg
http://www.attiya.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/foto-radio2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/16._Attiya_Gamri_(16426724105).jpg