Greek K13 results

[HellLander87]

These are Greek results I found on Gedmatch.


Me
North_Atlantic 21.45%
Baltic 17.91%
West_Med 20.21%
West_Asian 8.61%
East_Med 27.09%
Red_Sea 2.54%
South_Asian 1.47%
East_Asian 0.72%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Uncle
North_Atlantic 24.65%
Baltic 19.14%
West_Med 21.67%
West_Asian 9.15%
East_Med 21.26%
Red_Sea 3.28%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.58%
Siberian 0.23%
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -






North_Atlantic 22.02%
Baltic 15.12%
West_Med 21.39%
West_Asian 9.91%
East_Med 26.49%
Red_Sea 2.96%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.21%
Amerindian 0.89%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -





North_Atlantic 22.18%
Baltic 14.86%
West_Med 19.70%
West_Asian 10.14%
East_Med 30.48%
Red_Sea 1.70%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.18%
Siberian 0.38%
Amerindian 0.12%
Oceanian 0.16%
Northeast_African 0.08%
Sub-Saharan -





North_Atlantic 23.37%
Baltic 19.76%
West_Med 17.94%
West_Asian 12.07%
East_Med 21.10%
Red_Sea 3.12%
South_Asian 0.12%
East_Asian 0.09%
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.78%
Oceanian 0.83%
Northeast_African 0.82%
Sub-Saharan -



North_Atlantic 25.33%
Baltic 18.78%
West_Med 19.45%
West_Asian 11.29%
East_Med 20.69%
Red_Sea 1.70%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.94%
Amerindian 0.66%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 1.14%
Sub-Saharan -





North_Atlantic 22.47%
Baltic 18.30%
West_Med 20.67%
West_Asian 11.28%
East_Med 22.58%
Red_Sea 3.64%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.06%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -






North_Atlantic 19.41%
Baltic 17.12%
West_Med 21.50%
West_Asian 9.88%
East_Med 27.97%
Red_Sea 3.09%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.15%
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.12%
Northeast_African 0.75%
Sub-Saharan -





This one has similar results to my uncle with "reversed" North Atlantic,Baltic values.I think it is from Greek Macedonia
North_Atlantic 20.29%
Baltic 24.10%
West_Med 18.99%
West_Asian 11.26%
East_Med 23.23%
Red_Sea 0.83%
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.91%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.39%






North_Atlantic 18.43%
Baltic 20.40%
West_Med 18.28%
West_Asian 10.77%
East_Med 26.07%
Red_Sea 4.11%
South_Asian 0.90%
East_Asian 0.23%
Siberian 0.44%
Amerindian 0.10%
Oceanian 0.26%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[HellLander87]

fixed

[cally]

Which regions are they from ? :)

[HellLander87]

Which regions are they from ? :)
I don't know but most are my or my uncle's matches and we have similar results so I guess they are from around my region.I am from thessaly.

[cally]

You and I are very similar genetically :)

[HellLander87]

You and I are very similar genetically :)
haha almost the same.I bet you have more differences with your brothers.

[La Misse]

Poli brisidi exei pesei sto sig soy.

[HellLander87]

Average:
North_Atlantic 21.96%
Baltic 18.55%
West_Med 19.98%
West_Asian 10.44%
East_Med 24.23%
Red_Sea 2.7%

About east med there are two groups one with values at about 21% like my uncle,one at about 27% like me.

[cally]

Slavic migration has changed the genetics of the Balkans considerably.

[HellLander87]

Slavic migration has changed the genetics of the Balkans considerably.
For the better;)

[Thrax]

My results for comparison

North_Atlantic 20.07%
Baltic 15.01%
West_Med 18.33%
West_Asian 15.10%
East_Med 28.37%
Red_Sea 1.82%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.41%
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.15%
Oceanian 0.70%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Sikeliot]

Mainland Greece has clearly received some level of Slavic influence, as well as other Balkan influence. I wonder about the high North Atlantid though.. might it be a component that has been there since ancient times and always been part of the Greek gene pool? Most likely.

[Geni]

K13

I am not grek but i think is good to comparation


Admix Results (sorted):

Population Percent
------------------------------------------------------------
1 East_Med 26.22
2 North_Atlantic 23.31
3 West_Med 21.33
4 Baltic 13.52
5 West_Asian 11.99
6 Red_Sea 2.26

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source) Distance
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Tuscan 6.31
2 Greek 6.72
3 North_Italian 11.1
4 Bulgarian 11.23
5 Ashkenazi 11.55
6 South_Italian 11.7
7 Romanian 12.66
8 Serbian 16.53
9 Sephardic_Jewish 16.74
10 Portuguese 19.38
11 Spanish_Extremadura 19.54
12 Spanish_Andalucia 20.44
13 Spanish_Murcia 20.5
14 Spanish_Galicia 20.7
15 Spanish_Valencia 20.86
16 Spanish_Cataluna 21.21
17 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.59
18 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 22.34
19 French 22.74
20 Austrian 23.59

[HellLander87]

Mainland Greece has clearly received some level of Slavic influence, as well as other Balkan influence. I wonder about the high North Atlantid though.. might it be a component that has been there since ancient times and always been part of the Greek gene pool? Most likely.
Slavs(polish etc) have generally a roughly 2:1 ratio of baltic/north atlantic.Germanics on the other hand have a 1:2 ratio.Greeks have a ratio of about 1:1 with a bit more north atlantic than baltic.It's like their northern ancestry came from both germanic-like people and slavs too.I think we have to take into account the gothic and celtic migrations too.It could be more ancient though as you said.
Goths had a strong presence in the balkans and it is unlikely that they all left.For example a byzantine chronicler that wrote about the rebellion against the Gothic governor of Illyricum in thessalonica had said.


But is it not exceedingly surprising that the very same light-haired barbarians with Euboic headdress, who in private life perform the function of servants, are our rulers in
political life?
Also the general who defeated the goths in the balkans Stilicho was a Goth or vandal himself.It is indicative i think that some were absorbed into the byzantine society.Also celts were used in large numbers as mercenaries since the Hellenistic era.It is reasonable to assume imo that many northern "barbarians" found their way to the "roman" rich cities of the south not only as invaders.Another explantion would be that places from which the slavs descended into the Balkans the Pannonian plain,romania,northern serbia etc, were inhabited by Gepids Goths etc when slavs reached them so maybe a mixture of those people came down as slavs in some cases.
I think dienekes in some Dstatistics analysis found that the northern european component in Greeks is relatively new like max 2000-2500 years ago if I remember correctly.
I think it's like we have the north Atlantic influence that southern italians sicilians have if not more, and a roughly equal baltic.

[Sikeliot]

Do you have results from any Greek islanders?

[HellLander87]

Do you have results from any Greek islanders?
Nope.These are practically all the Greek results I managed to find.

[DanielJ1eH]

Hmm, these are very similar to my results except I have much more Northern Euro.

[Prince Carlo]

Both Neolitich farmers and Iberian Mesolitich Hunther Gatherers scored plenty of North Atlantic ancestry. Mainland Greeks and Albanians are 80% South Italian + 20% North Slav mix.

[Kastrioti1443]

Both Neolitich farmers and Iberian Mesolitich Hunther Gatherers scored plenty of North Atlantic ancestry. Mainland Greeks and Albanians are 80% South Italian + 20% North Slav mix.

There are not enough genetic studies to conclude what you said. About Albanians, the most genetic studies are done on Tosks and albanised Vlachs in southern Albania ( that is why there are similarities with mainland greeks).

There are a few genetic studies done on Kosovo ( they should have been done among villagers) and almost none done about highlanders of Northern Albania ( including south Montenegro).

[safinator]

The results of some Albanians for comparison.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 24.43
2 East_Med 21.08
3 West_Med 20.82
4 Baltic 15.82
5 West_Asian 13.49
6 Red_Sea 4.13
7 Oceanian 0.23


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.22
2 North_Atlantic 23.31
3 West_Med 21.33
4 Baltic 13.52
5 West_Asian 11.99
6 Red_Sea 2.26
7 Amerindian 0.74
8 Oceanian 0.44
9 East_Asian 0.19

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.6
2 North_Atlantic 21.61
3 Baltic 21.21
4 West_Med 20.86
5 West_Asian 10.26
6 Red_Sea 1.08
7 Siberian 0.39


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 24.61
2 East_Med 21.41
3 West_Med 20.36
4 Baltic 16.33
5 West_Asian 10.28
6 Red_Sea 6
7 East_Asian 0.77
8 Oceanian 0.23



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28
2 West_Med 21.76
3 North_Atlantic 20.01
4 Baltic 14.05
5 West_Asian 12.41
6 Red_Sea 2.3
7 Oceanian 0.8
8 Amerindian 0.49
9 Sub-Saharan 0.18


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.62
2 North_Atlantic 23.95
3 West_Med 19.37
4 Baltic 17.99
5 West_Asian 9.49
6 Red_Sea 2.27
7 Oceanian 0.66
8 Siberian 0.65


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 22.72
2 West_Med 21
3 North_Atlantic 19.36
4 Baltic 18.8
5 West_Asian 13.48
6 East_Asian 2.24
7 Red_Sea 2.16
8 Oceanian 0.24


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.53
2 North_Atlantic 24.43
3 West_Med 21.23
4 Baltic 13.47
5 West_Asian 13.28
6 Red_Sea 1.93
7 Siberian 0.6
8 East_Asian 0.52
9 Amerindian 0.02


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.04
2 North_Atlantic 22.47
3 West_Med 19.87
4 Baltic 17.8
5 West_Asian 10.39
6 Red_Sea 3.03
7 Oceanian 0.33
8 Northeast_African 0.07
9 Siberian 0.01


# Population Percent
1 West_Med 25.37
2 East_Med 20.77
3 North_Atlantic 20.68
4 Baltic 18.7
5 West_Asian 11.34
6 Red_Sea 2.19
7 East_Asian 0.59
8 Siberian 0.36


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 24.54
2 West_Med 24.11
3 East_Med 21.7
4 Baltic 15.82
5 West_Asian 11.01
6 South_Asian 1.27
7 Red_Sea 0.99
8 Oceanian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.17


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.32
2 North_Atlantic 23.71
3 West_Med 20.9
4 Baltic 15.67
5 West_Asian 11.7
6 Red_Sea 2.86
7 South_Asian 0.84


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.5
2 West_Med 23.29
3 North_Atlantic 20.55
4 Baltic 16.35
5 West_Asian 10.51
6 Red_Sea 1.21
7 Oceanian 0.23
8 East_Asian 0.18
9 Siberian 0.16

[HellLander87]

There are not enough genetic studies to conclude what you said. About Albanians, the most genetic studies are done on Tosks and albanised Vlachs in southern Albania ( that is why there are similarities with mainland greeks).

There are a few genetic studies done on Kosovo ( they should have been done among villagers) and almost none done about highlanders of Northern Albania ( including south Montenegro).
I ve seen many results from kosovo here.They are roughly like mine and all that I saw more southern than my uncle's for example.
Their main difference from Albanians from Albania is that they score more Baltic.

[safinator]

I ve seen many results from kosovo here.They are roughly like mine and all that I saw more southern than my uncle's for example.
Their main difference from Albanians from Albania is that they score more Baltic.

Your uncle is the most northern greek i've ever seen.

[HellLander87]

Your uncle is the most northern greek i've ever seen.
Now that I check there is a couple of others a bit more northern than him.

[Dianatomia]

Both Neolitich farmers and Iberian Mesolitich Hunther Gatherers scored plenty of North Atlantic ancestry. Mainland Greeks and Albanians are 80% South Italian + 20% North Slav mix.

It's more complicated. We can see genetic differences between some islanders and mainland Greeks on different levels. It's not that 80% of mainland Greeks are genetically exactly the same as islanders, with some extra northern influence. There are traces of different waves of migrations altogether. Including non-northern migrations.

Some northern admixture in mainland Greece may have come more recently, but lots of it was already there. The Islands have been very close to Anatolia and had more genetic impact from there since pre-historical times. Why not assume that they are less Northern-Baltic than Greek mainlanders because of that?

South Italians are only part Greek. They always have been part Greek. In fact, the majority of their gene pool is non-Greek. No point comparing them to Greeks.

[HellLander87]

About when the northern influence came the only thing that could giv some indications now, till some ancient dna comes in, are some doubtfully accurate Dstatistics-like runs.

[HellLander87]

Take a read at this if you are interested.
rolloff analysis of North European admixture in Greeks

The jackknife estimate of this admixture is 87.849 +/- 20.254 generations, or, assuming a generation length of 29 years, into 2,550 +/- 590 years.

More research on the issue is certainly needed, but a first reading of the evidence suggests that this type of admixture may reflect events that took place during the historical period of Greek history.
http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2012/09/rolloff-analysis-of-north-european.html

[HellLander87]

Both Neolitich farmers and Iberian Mesolitich Hunther Gatherers scored plenty of North Atlantic ancestry. Mainland Greeks and Albanians are 80% South Italian + 20% North Slav mix.


Something like that.
75.8% Italian-Center + 24.2% Belarusian_V

[Sikeliot]

It's more complicated. We can see genetic differences between some islanders and mainland Greeks on different levels. It's not that 80% of mainland Greeks are genetically exactly the same as islanders, with some extra northern influence. There are traces of different waves of migrations altogether. Including non-northern migrations.

Some northern admixture in mainland Greece may have come more recently, but lots of it was already there. The Islands have been very close to Anatolia and had more genetic impact from there since pre-historical times. Why not assume that they are less Northern-Baltic than Greek mainlanders because of that?

South Italians are only part Greek. They always have been part Greek. In fact, the majority of their gene pool is non-Greek. No point comparing them to Greeks.


But some groups of southern Italians, score almost identically to Greek islanders especially Cretans.

Although it is obvious looking at people's scores on Dodecad that southernmost of the southern Italians (Sicilians, Calabrese) have even less North Euro than do island Greeks, a small North African component they do not have, and more SW Asian.

[Prince Carlo]

Something like that.
75.8% Italian-Center + 24.2% Belarusian_V

Central and South Italians are almost the same on the MDLP, son. That's because they have very few samples.

The most Northern Greeks come out as being 80% South Italian and 20% North Slav.

[HellLander87]

Just a simple plot of Greek and Albanian results.
http://s22.postimg.org/yjfbyc70x/image.png

[Dianatomia]

But some groups of southern Italians, score almost identically to Greek islanders especially Cretans.

Although it is obvious looking at people's scores on Dodecad that southernmost of the southern Italians (Sicilians, Calabrese) have even less North Euro than do island Greeks, a small North African component they do not have, and more SW Asian.

Scoring the same in North Euro vs South Euro comparisons does not mean that they have the same ancestry. They are just made up by more or less the same amount North and South Europeans.

As for the Cretans, we know that they have a pre-Greek Med ancestry too. So, South Italians being similar to them says a lot about other Meds which were present in Southern Italy.

Indo-European Greeks with more Atlanto-Baltic admixture came from the mainland (Thessaly, Epirus, Macedonia) and spread throughout the what was to become the Greek world.

[Geni]

I dont understand this map hellander87

[Kastrioti1443]

I ve seen many results from kosovo here.They are roughly like mine and all that I saw more southern than my uncle's for example.
Their main difference from Albanians from Albania is that they score more Baltic.

Plots have not much to do with pigmentation and phenotype, we have a lot of such examples in this forum only.

[Kastrioti1443]

Just a simple plot of Greek and Albanian results.
http://s22.postimg.org/yjfbyc70x/image.png

Where are the albos and greeks from?

[safinator]

Hellander, check the the last professional Lazaridis plot to see that the almost all the Greeks are more south on the map, and the most Northern ones are still souther than Albanians.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fc2W-6tR-HA/Urigqts3hwI/AAAAAAAAJbg/hqZiV1TOGgc/s1600/europe.png

[Prince Carlo]

Hellander, check the the last professional Lazaridis plot to see that the almost all the Greeks are more south on the map, and the most Northern ones are still souther than Albanians.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fc2W-6tR-HA/Urigqts3hwI/AAAAAAAAJbg/hqZiV1TOGgc/s1600/europe.png

The Greeks are from Solun and Athens. Albanians are from Tirana. There are no Kosovars there.

[Kastrioti1443]

Hellander, check the the last professional Lazaridis plot to see that the almost all the Greeks are more south on the map, and the most Northern ones are still souther than Albanians.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fc2W-6tR-HA/Urigqts3hwI/AAAAAAAAJbg/hqZiV1TOGgc/s1600/europe.png

It depends where samples are taken. Even from Kosovo... In this plots map, it seems that albos score much much more in north, if i am not wrong. Probably Malsors.

[safinator]

The most Northern Albanians by far has to be the Northwest Albanians, do we have any samples of Northwest Albanians?

Malsors on my list arent convinced to take Gedmatch yet but indeed on 23andMe they are the most NW Albanians, not only geographically :D

[Dianatomia]

Northern Greeks seem to shift to Albanians and Southernmost slavs in autosomal DNA.

Greeks and Albanians both cluster away from most South Slavs in general. Some southernmost south Slavs are in closer proximity to the Greek and Albanian sphere. Greeks who cluster right among South Slavs in general are very rare. In general Greeks will not deviate from the main Greek population considerably.

The fact that Northern Greeks are relatively close to Albanians indicates that these Greeks are in their natural habitat (so to speak). Albanians and North Greeks are geographic neighbors, and the South Slavs who absorbed indigenous peoples absorbed those who were genetically close to North Greeks and Albanians.

So in all, I can't see any evidence that most of the Northern admixture in mainland Greeks was not there since classical times or before.

I fail to see any proof that all Greeks had the same North vs South admixture since Ancient times. On the contrary, there is a lot of evidence that there must have been 'some' variety within the Greek genetic pool.

Ofcourse I do not exclude that some Northern admixture may have come later.

[HellLander87]

Hellander, check the the last professional Lazaridis plot to see that the almost all the Greeks are more south on the map, and the most Northern ones are still souther than Albanians.


The plot I made is from the results posted in this thread.Check the numbers yourself and you ll see that it's right .The Greek sample is more northeastern than the albanian on average.

[safinator]

The plot I made is from the results posted in this thread.Check the numbers yourself and you ll see that it's right .The Greek sample is more northeastern than the albanian on average.

I'm just posting a professional paper which is free of cherrypicking bias, that's all.

[HellLander87]

I'm just posting a professional paper which is free of cherrypicking bias, that's all.
It ain't a contest of who is more northern man.I posted some greek results.You posted some albanian,I made plot.When I posted these results I didn't have the intention to capture the genetic picture of all Greece.I just found some Greek results through searching gedmatch.I posted all the results I found.The bias in that is that probably I don't match people from some regions of Greece and strictly speaking the very fact that I match some of them:p(nobody except my uncle though is a close relative and I have quite different results from him).
The professional study is biased too by choosing its place of sampling:).Athens and thessalonica have people of mixed ancestries from various places from allover greece and anatolia so these professional studies fail to capture the picture at other places of Greece.
You should all thank me for presenting another "face" of Greece previously unknown to the community.:D

[HellLander87]

just for fun:D North Atlantic+Baltic
http://s21.postimg.org/9fdcqp8bb/league.png