Irish Traveller DNA Admixture

[JQP4545]

What does Irish Traveller DNA look like on admixture tests? Their language incorporates elements of Romani so would there be Roma admixture?

[Anglojew]

Good question

[Anglojew]

THE first DNA analysis of the Travelling community has proven that it is a distinct ethnic minority who separated from the settled community between 1,000 and 2,000 years ago, experts have claimed.
According to genetics expert Jim Wilson from the University of Edinburgh, though it is clear Travellers diverged from the settled community, it is not clear why.

He said Travellers are a distinct genetic group as different from the settled Irish as Icelanders are from Norwegians.

The revelation was made on RTÉ’s documentary, Blood of the Travellers, and will put further pressure on the Government to recognise Travellers as a distinct group of people.

In March, the UN Committee for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination expressed concern at the state’s “persistent refusal” to recognise Travellers as an ethnic minority, and pointed out that they satisfied the internationally recognised criteria for such a group.

In the first-ever project of its kind, DNA samples were taken from 40 Travellers around the country, and these were analysed by a team of scientists from the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin, the University of Edinburgh and Ethnoancestory.com to try and unlock the history of Ireland’s Travelling people.

What they found confirms that Travellers have a shared heritage with settled people but that they separated at some point between 1,000 and 2,000 years ago.

The programme was initiated by producer Liam McGrath and former Olympic boxer Francie Barrett, who said he wanted to uncover the history of his people and to try to understand why their culture is in danger of being wiped out.

Enlisting the help of geneticists Dr Wilson and Dr Gianpiero Cavalleri from the Royal College of Surgeons, they analysed the DNA samples collected to try and trace the origins of Irish Travellers.

Dr Wilson said he wants to carry out more research to pin down a more accurate date for the split and look at historical records for that period to try and find out why it occurred.

Recognition as an ethnic group would bring Travellers within the remit of various protections in international agreements.

In 2002 the Equality Authority published its most definitive position on cultural diversity in Irish society. It states that acknowledgement of Traveller ethnicity is not only a matter of academic importance but has significant practical implications in the promotion of equality for Travellers and in the elimination of discrimination experienced by Travellers.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/dna-study-travellers-a-distinct-ethnicity-156324.html

[Prisoner Of Ice]

They have their own r1b clade.

[Celxon]

The report claims that they separated from the settled population from 1,000 to 2,000 years ago. That's surprising! Some reports claim that the separation starts in the 1600s (war) or 1800s (famine). I'd like to know the final findings of the study.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The report claims that they separated from the settled population from 1,000 to 2,000 years ago. That's surprising! Some reports claim that the separation starts in the 1600s (war) or 1800s (famine). I'd like to know the final findings of the study.

It's probably more recent than 1000+ years. The rest of the population has changed a lot since war.

[Celxon]

It's probably more recent than 1000+ years. The rest of the population has changed a lot since war.

I think so too. That's why the study's claim is so surprising.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I think so too. That's why the study's claim is so surprising.

The only way they can measure is to look at differences, but one population did not stay the same.

There's some of the same at work in the colonies. Some unmixed spaniards americas are more spanish than anyone in spain.

[Celxon]

The only way they can measure is to look at differences, but one population did not stay the same.

There's some of the same at work in the colonies. Some unmixed spaniards americas are more spanish than anyone in spain.

The difference probably was influenced by a genetic bottleneck in that selected families stayed in the Traveler groups, thus a limited gene pool. That would account for the "foreign" genes.

[Fortis in Arduis]

As different as Norwegians and Icelanders is not really so different, and might arise from founder effect/bottleneck although, they should be considered to be ethnically different on cultural grounds anyway.

I met someone who insisted that there was a connection between and some intermarriage between Irish Travellers and UK Roma. Who knows. The (older) Isles population is largely homogenous. Really, until there is a full genetic audit, the details relating to Isles minorities will remain mysterious.



What caused the split is a very interesting question. The notion that they emerged from the dissolution of the monasteries seemed academically feasible, but 1000-2000 years seems more as though the arrival of Christianity might have been the trigger of events. It also places their ethnogenesis at a date some time before the arrival of the Roma.

I really thought that their origins were more recent.

[Grace O'Malley]

What does Irish Traveller DNA look like on admixture tests? Their language incorporates elements of Romani so would there be Roma admixture?

They speak Shelta and Cant which is heavily influenced from Irish Gaelic and is a creole language. It doesn't have any elements of Romani in it. Scottish Cant has Romani elements in it but not Irish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cant_(language)

Irish traveller dna is also just a subset of Irish. There is no outside influence. They are just an isolated Irish population.

[Graham]

They have their own r1b clade.

What is it?

[Grace O'Malley]

What is it?

I can't see how they would be any different. They are most probably Rb-L21 like most Irish.

[Graham]

I can't see how they would be any different. They are most probably Rb-L21 like most Irish.

Yeah but R1b L21 split into many different groups more than a thousand years back

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_Tree_Chart.png.

[Grace O'Malley]

Yeah but R1b L21 split into many different groups more than a thousand years back

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_Tree_Chart.png.

I would be interested to see but I would say they are a mixture like R-M222 and some of the other common Irish types.

[Graham]

I would be interested to see but I would say they are a mixture like R-M222 and some of the other common Irish types.

Depends what part for M222. Most common up North.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/512xn/legacy/supporting/aac0bcd80088e0a2ec00975de4ad04ada29ccc14.gif

[Grace O'Malley]

Depends what part for M222. Most common up North.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/512xn/legacy/supporting/aac0bcd80088e0a2ec00975de4ad04ada29ccc14.gif

I just think they will have a few R1b clades that are common in Ireland. My father is from a M222 hotspot. I'll have to get my brother to test sometime to see if he is M222.