Global Warming

[Sol Invictus]

May I ask that all of the publications posted regarding global warming be moved to the conspiracy section?

Thanks in advance.

[Svipdag]

Tide gauge records dating back over a century, photographs and maps of glaciers in major mountain ranges show that there has been a secular warming trend which has led to retreat of glaciers and, as a result of melting of glacial ice, a rise in sea level.

None of this came as any surprise to glaciologists, glacial geologists, or paleoclimatologists. The great ice sheets of the Wisconsinan or Würm Glacial Age had melted away only about 13,000 years ago. None of the experts expected deglaciation to be finished yet.

As nearly as can be determined. the retreat of the continental ice sheets took somewhere between 6,000 and 8,000 years. The Laurentide Ice Sheet in Canada contained over 3,000,000 CUBIC MILES of ice. Yet, it appears to have melted completely in a few thousand years. Now, THAT required global warming on a scale compared to which the present little glitch in the climate is insignificant.

Yet, 21,000 years ago, mankind was shivering in caves. maybe slightly heated by a wood fire. Evidently, human activity played NO role in that
episode of global warming. Whatever caused it, WE didn't. Periodic climatic refrigeration alternating with warming is a NATURAL PROCESS. It is sheer chutzpah to imagine that we can have any significant effect on it. We didn't start it and we can't stop it.

That said, we can't sweep it under the rug. Global warming is happening. There are minor interruptions and reversals as there were in the major advances and retreats of the ice sheets. We can do three things, two of which can lead to disaster: ignore it until it's too late to adapt to it; waste
time and effort trying to stop a natural process until we realise too late that we can't; or PREPARE for the inevitable effects of global warming and ADAPT to it.

You can transfer this topic to the Conspiracies section, but, believe it or not, that won't get rid of the natural process of deglaciation.

[kwp_wp]

totally agree on that.
Some scientific groups intentionally were doing a big buzz around the global warming to obtain more govermental funds for their research. But the climat warm up itself is a fact we cannot discuss. Which factor: natural or anthropogenic is bigger it's a different story...

[Sol Invictus]

It's confirmed that global warming advocates have manipulated weather readings in order to support this absurd claim. Global warming IS real, but it is a naturally occuring cycle, and no evidence what-so-ever substantiates the theory that man is the ultimate cause for such things.

[Svipdag]

I agree with you completely, but that doesn't mean that we can afford to ignore it.

[Sol Invictus]

I agree with you completely, but that doesn't mean that we can afford to ignore it.

Did you read what was just said? It's confirmed by reputable scientists who dared to speak against the current climate change conspiracy theories, who's committed career suicide for saying that it's a naturally occuring cycle for the earth to heat up and cool down over a span of thousands of years. The earth has been, and always will correct itself to maintain balance.

[Loddfafner]

So is it a cycle or a secular trend? These are very different positions.

[Sol Invictus]

So is it a cycle or a secular trend? These are very different positions.

The only difference is, one is a confirmed fraud.

[Loddfafner]

Nothing has been confirmed yet.

[Sol Invictus]

Nothing has been confirmed yet.

Oh no? Confirm to me that Global warming is man-made without referring to false readings, and I will withdrawal anything I have said about it. This, to my knowledge, isn't even open to debate anymore.

[Birka]

See where Keith Olberman is saying the climate data fraud story is all made up by Fox News?

[Jamt]

I dont know what to belive anymore.

[Sol Invictus]

See where Keith Olberman is saying the climate data fraud story is all made up by Fox News?

All a show. MSNBC is as much at fault for perpetuating the idea as FOX is, he has no right to point the finger at anyone. He should nominate himself for idiot of the year.

[Loddfafner]

Oh no? Confirm to me that Global warming is man-made without referring to false readings, and I will withdrawal anything I have said about it. This, to my knowledge, isn't even open to debate anymore.

I can't confirm anything as I do not have the expertise. I am sure, however, that it is very much still open to debate. I cannot rule out that the climate email scandal was not created and amplified as a conspiracy to scuttle any serious agreement that would affect the power of large corporations (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8397265.stm).

I do not see the reports of the emails as evidence against man-made global warming but they are a suggestion that climate scientists have fallen into the trap where peer review slips into peer pressure. It is the same trap that has undermined scientific research on race. It is also the same trap that has undermined theology. These are problems in the social organization of knowledge, but do not by themselves falsify any of their claims.

[Sol Invictus]

I can't confirm anything as I do not have the expertise. I am sure, however, that it is very much still open to debate. I cannot rule out that the climate email scandal was not created and amplified as a conspiracy to scuttle any serious agreement that would affect the power of large corporations (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8397265.stm).

I do not see the reports of the emails as evidence against man-made global warming but they are a suggestion that climate scientists have fallen into the trap where peer review slips into peer pressure. It is the same trap that has undermined scientific research on race. It is also the same trap that has undermined theology. These are problems in the social organization of knowledge, but do not by themselves falsify any of their claims.

What part of 'we can't find any evidence of global warming caused by human activity, so let's manipulate the data' don't you understand? Theology and all that non-sense you just posted has nothing to do with it.

Of course the UN is going to stand by their arguments that man is the enemy, what else is to be expected? Stop trying to digress from the issue, and let's talk about what we DO know instead of psychobabble, shall we?

You may not think that their own words are damnable against their own claims, but those of us who don't rely on criminals to do our thinking for us see otherwise.

[Loddfafner]

Scientists I know who are in related fields and in a position to evaluate the evidence take global warming seriously, and I take their word over anything I run across on the internet. Whether anything can be done at this point is a different matter, and I take technocratic solutions tied with dubious financial transactions with the level of skepticism I normally apply to UFOs.

[Sol Invictus]

Scientists I know who are in related fields and in a position to evaluate the evidence take global warming seriously, and I take their word over anything I run across on the internet. Whether anything can be done at this point is a different matter, and I take technocratic solutions tied with dubious financial transactions with the level of skepticism I normally apply to UFOs.

If your friends defend frauds then they are even bigger idiots than the people who were caught red handed manipulating scientific data. Again, bring up whatever issues you want like UFOs, race, or theology - it's still won't draw away from the issue at hand. The only conspiracy theory here is Global Warming caused by human activity. Don't try and bring UFO's into this.

[The Black Prince]

True, climate changes have been going on for ages. f.i. during the High Medieval vines were cultivated in the Northern Netherlands.

However stating that the current period of warming is a hoax made up by 'some' scientists is not true. The only misnomer is to completely blame it on mankind. In reality we are only a littly factor in the worlds climate. Which brings me to Svipdag:

I agree with you completely, but that doesn't mean that we can afford to ignore it.
Although the Earth will get over it (I hate those greenloving utopists telling that the Earth is going down..:p) mankind will be in trouble by climate changes.

First, turning down the CO2 production will not help us acting against the temperature rising, this is just a silly excuse. However cutting down the massive exploitation of oil and gas is not a bad idea. It is 'exploitation' meaning that oil and gas are taken without sufficient renewal by nature, so we will run out of it once.

Second, sea level will rise wether man is the cause or not. And since we are most likely not able to turn the process, it is better to prepare ourself. That means that in those parts of the world were people live around or below sea level, actions must be taken. Not by CO2 reduction but just by building dykes and regulated waterways. However this will only cost the local governments money, while trying to reduce CO2 production by taxes et such delivers money in the governments coffers.
One way or the other, governments rather earn money and spend it on 'left hobbys' than not earn money and funding the building of a decent watercontrol system.:rolleyes:

[Sol Invictus]

Rising sea level = exact bullshit perpetuated by the same frauds who think the polar bear numbers in arctic canada are dying out when they are actually greater in number than ever before. There is going to be no rising waterlevels anywhere, and the UN ADMITS that at most it would be 1 foot of water of both western and eastern coasts of America, and even this is fraudulant data.

There's no such thing as C02 causing global warming, the polar bear numbers are greater than ever, and there is no rising sea levels.

Drop it.

[Svipdag]

Rising sea levels throughout the world have been recorded by tide gauges for over 100 years. These records were obtained long before anybody thought to blame a natural phenomenon on human activity. It is a FACT. Sealevel IS rising everywhere and has been observed to since tide gauges were first installed on the shores of those of the world's civilised nations which have sea coasts.

The only quantitatively sufficient source for the additional water is the melting of glacial ice. Photographic and topographic evidence has existed for over a century showing that, with a few minor exceptions such as Mt Rainier, mountain glaciers are retreating. The only way glaciers retreat is by melting.

The CAUSES of global warming are debatable. The FACT of global warming is not.

Frankly, I am getting sick and tired of being "a voice crying in the wilderness".
Will you STOP squabbling over the causes of global warming and START trying, not to stop it, which is beyond our capabilities, but to PREPARE for its effects and ADAPT to them ?

The fossil record contains thousands of examples of species which were superbly adapted to a specific climate and became extinct because they could not adapt to a change in the climate. DO YOU WANT TO JOIN THEM ?

If not, SHUT UP about the causes of global warming [which is a REAL AND PRESENT danger] and learn to cope with the unavoidable EFFECTS of rising average temperatures accompanied by rising sea level, shifting of climatic belts, and changes in oceanic currents.

For us, as for any other organism in the Earth's history, Nature's merciless and inexorable law is ADAPT OR DIE !

[Sol Invictus]

I rest my case. Fools.

[kwp_wp]

Yep, global warming is a FACT, natural fluctuations (cykles) ended since 50's-60's last century. is it just simply coincidence that that changes coincide in time with a rapid industrial development? the truth is like always in the middle, but I'm still open to this case

[Sol Invictus]

Look, it's widely accepted that Global Warming is fact. However, it is not accepted that Global Warming caused by human activity is. There is no consensus (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597) among climatologists regarding this. On the other hand, the ones who are perpetuating the idea that humans are the blame, like David Mayer de Rotschild (the same person who said live on the Alex Jones show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7x_SBXInx4&feature=PlayList&p=7F33AD63B9FF09BC&index=17) that Mars and Pluto are closer to the sun than earth while trying to defend his argument [yes he thinks we are fools]) and Al Gore who was complicit in Climate Gate (http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2009/11/global-warming-meltdown-climategate.html) falsified readings. In other words, frauds.

[Loddfafner]

Some AP reporters examined the emails (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091212/ap_on_sc/climate_e_mails)and found that despite ample douchebaggery , there was nothing that supported claims that the science was faked.


LONDON – E-mails stolen from climate scientists show they stonewalled skeptics and discussed hiding data — but the messages don't support claims that the science of global warming was faked, according to an exhaustive review by The Associated Press.

The 1,073 e-mails examined by the AP show that scientists harbored private doubts, however slight and fleeting, even as they told the world they were certain about climate change. However, the exchanges don't undercut the vast body of evidence showing the world is warming because of man-made greenhouse gas emissions.
....

[Sol Invictus]

Typical media spin.

It's not suprising they would try their best at damage control.

Data that has been “artificially adjusted to look closer to the real temperatures” is false data, yielding a false result (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/22/cru-emails-may-be-open-to-interpretation-but-commented-code-by-the-programmer-tells-the-real-story/), if "Hide the decline(in temperatures)" isn't enough for people to seriously question the credibility of these bureaucrats, I don't know what will.

[Sol Invictus]

Lord Christopher Monckton interviews and schools another ill-informed c02 conspiracy theorist. Her answer to his science is " I don't believe it"

wuj_tlRRQdQ

[Sol Invictus]

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/13/lots-of-new-cold-and-snow-records-in-the-usa-this-week/

Record cold events set this week in US: 2,601 in total.

[Sol Invictus]

No continents have set a record high temperature since 1974. This is not even remotely consistent with claims that current temperatures are unusually high. Quite the contrary. (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001375.html)

[Svipdag]

Having stated my views on this issue several times previously, I shall summarise them.

Global warming is real. We didn't start it. We can't stop it. Like all large-scale climatic changes, it does not proceed smoothly or continuously but, rather, with interruptions and temporary reversals.

'Nuff said ?

[lei.talk]

Re “Global Warming Is Crap (http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2010/jan/27/cover-global-warming-crap/)!” (Cover Story, January 28).

A record cold winter currently does not disprove global warming, nor does a single record hot summer verify it. We live in a scientific age. How many of us are really forming our opinions from science, from scientists?

The northwest passage is the sea route at the top of North America leading from one side to the other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage). Eight boats transited the northwest passage last year — a record. Not big ships — small yachts unable to punch through ice, mostly sailboats. That’s about eight more than the entire 20th Century. Let’s not let our political biases determine our viewpoints about a very large topic which should be approached in the spirit of scientific inquiry. Let’s look at actual data.

Mark Allen
Harborside (http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/37946/)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Northwest_passage.jpg

[Amarantine]

concerning the last decade winters in my country it is more like global raining and global flooding