Intoxicated Sexual Assault Victims Are as Guilty as Their Attackers

[Kazimiera]

Intoxicated Sexual Assault Victims Are as Guilty as Their Attackers

James Taranto says that men are often unfairly accused, particularly when both men and women involved in the case were drinking.

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/drunk_woman.jpg

Wall Street Journal editor James Taranto claimed that cases of "'sexual assault' on campus" that involve alcohol are really victimless crimes in which both parties are equally guilty.

In his February 10 WSJ column, Taranto baselessly argued that men are often unfairly accused in sexual assault cases on college campuses, particularly when both men and women involved in the case were drinking (emphasis added):

What is called the problem of "sexual assault" on campus is in large part a problem of reckless alcohol consumption, by men and women alike.

[...]

If two drunk drivers are in a collision, one doesn't determine fault on the basis of demographic details such as each driver's sex. But when two drunken college students "collide," the male one is almost always presumed to be at fault. His diminished capacity owing to alcohol is not a mitigating factor, but her diminished capacity is an aggravating factor for him.

As the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education notes, at some campuses the accuser's having had one drink is sufficient to establish the defendant's guilt ... In theory that means, as FIRE notes, that "if both parties are intoxicated during sex, they are both technically guilty of sexually assaulting each other." In practice it means that women, but not men, are absolved of responsibility by virtue of having consumed alcohol.

While it is true that reckless alcohol consumption can play a role in encouraging damaging behavior, and that male and female college students (particularly underage students) could probably benefit from learning to moderate their drinking for a variety of reasons, Taranto's accusation that women who drink -- and then are forced to have sex against their will -- are not only equally at fault for their assault but are guilty of an equivalent crime takes victim blaming to a new and dangerous low.

Taranto's victim-blaming approach furthers his attempts to disingenuously redefine the problem of sexual assault as a problem of alcohol. The problem of sexual assault on college campuses, as elsewhere, is entirely a problem of sexual assault, in which a victim does not consent to sexual relations with the aggressor. Studies have shown that alcohol consumption doesn't cause sexual assault, nor does it serve as a defense. According to a literature review from the National Institutes of Health:

The fact that alcohol consumption and sexual assault frequently co-occur does not demonstrate that alcohol causes sexual assault.

[...]

[M]en are legally and morally responsible for acts of sexual assault they commit, regardless of whether or not they were intoxicated or felt that the woman had led them on previously. The fact that a woman's alcohol consumption may increase their likelihood of experiencing sexual assault does not make them responsible for the man's behavior, although such information may empower women when used in prevention programs.

Other studies similarly found that some college men who acknowledge committing sexual assault -- which included 25 percent of male students surveyed -- may have used alcohol to "have an excuse for their behavior." Other variables, like peer pressure, "may lead some men both to drink heavily and to commit sexual assault," but the researchers found no evidence to place the blame solely on the presence of alcohol.

Moreover, just because both women and men are drinking in a particular situation does not necessarily place them on equal footing. As Ann Friedman has noted, "The biological reality is that women do not metabolize alcohol the same way as men do, and that means drink for drink women will get drunker faster." The idea that women who get drunk and then are forced into nonconsensual sexual experiences are equally at fault in the situation misses the reality of assault, particularly as it involves physical force of some kind in a majority of cases.

If Taranto is concerned about the treatment of men in such cases, he could have written about male sexual assault victims, who are a smaller but nevertheless important portion of victims. But when men are sexually assaulted the perpetrator is usually also male; in fact, 98 percent of all perpetrators are male. The "double standard" Taranto is worried about, in which men are more often the accused, isn't a double standard at all -- it's just reality.

The insistence that victims are equally responsible for their assault contributes to a dangerous stigmatization which keeps many victims from reporting these crimes -- particularly because victims who do report can become the targets of vicious attacks. Previously, Taranto's victim-blaming has included insisting that efforts to address the growing problem of sexual assault are attacks on men and male sexuality.

But no matter how many times he uses the WSJ to blame victims and push sexist attacks, his concern that women take advantage of using alcohol to falsely accuse men of assault just doesn't match the facts. According to the FBI, people falsely report sexual assault at the same low rate as other comparable crimes: only 3 percent of the time.


Source: http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/wsj-editor-intoxicated-rape-are-guilty-their-attackers

[Nehellenia]

It doesn't help when both are drunk, man and woman in such an instance, but i disagree completely. How can he say sexual assault is a victimless crime...?! :mad:

[arcticwolf]

You should never be drunk to the point of being not in control of yourself in public. If you wanna get wasted, lock the door and go for it in your own home, where you can pass out safely of safer.

As a side note.

What kind of a moron finds drunk women sexually appealing?

Happy drunks are at least funny, but finding a drunk to be sexually desirable is gross to me.

[arcticwolf]

It doesn't help when both are drunk, man and woman in such an instance, but i disagree completely. How can he say sexual assault is a victimless crime...?! :mad:

I think what he is saying is that if they are both drunk neither one is really in control of their own self, as in drunks do stupid shit they do not even remember next day.

[MissProvocateur]

I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

Here's a fun story!

It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

I didn't respond.

Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.

[Nehellenia]

I think what he is saying is that if they are both drunk neither one is really in control of their own self, as in drunks do stupid shit they do not even remember next day.

I understand that, i don't deny that is it dangerous for any woman to drink excessively to that point.. but you don't even need to be completely drunk to be overpowered by most men, some choices of words he used for his reasoning is wrong though.

Women are more likely to be raped by someone they know than a complete stranger, so his logic in that instance would be 'it's a womans fault they were trusting or drank in the presence of a friend/acquaintance'. Every person ultimately should have a right to a good time without the threat of rape though.

[Nehellenia]

I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

Here's a fun story!

It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

I didn't respond.

Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.

I can relate :picard2:

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

Here's a fun story!

It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

I didn't respond.

Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.

"NOthing I thought you were asleep!!" As if that would make it ok?! WTF!!!

[RandoBloom]

I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

Here's a fun story!

It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

I didn't respond.

Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.

But a drunk man is responsible for his actions right? Giving woman ability to kill herself with alcohol and expecting everyone else to be responsible?
What a load of crap.

[Nehellenia]

But a drunk man is responsible for his actions right? Giving woman ability to kill herself with alcohol and expecting everyone else to be responsible?
What a load of crap.

Nobody is responsible for a drunk woman, but the woman BUT if a man was going to take advantage of a girl based on the fact she is asleep or has been drinking, than that surely can't be right, a blind drunk man wouldn't even have the foresight to rape a woman, his mind would be gone, you have to have your wits about you enough to even have the physical action abilities to do such a thing.

[RandoBloom]

Nobody is responsible for a drunk woman, but the woman BUT if a man was going to take advantage of a girl based on the fact she is asleep or has been drinking, than that surely can't be right, a blind drunk man wouldn't even have the foresight to rape a woman, his mind would be gone, you have to have your wits about you enough to even have the physical action abilities to do such a thing.

By the same logic a blind drunk woman wouldnt know if she was raped.
Thus disabling that logic. If a man is drunk then he cant be helf responsible unless a woman is responsible

[Black Wolf]

It all depends on the situation as each one is different. Sometimes the man is at fault, sometimes the woman and sometimes both.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

By the same logic a blind drunk woman wouldnt know if she was raped.
Thus disabling that logic. If a man is drunk then he cant be helf responsible unless a woman is responsible

WTF? I can see where youd argue if both are drunk and willing. After all consent is consent if they are both intoxicated and on the same page..but to say that an intoxicated man feeling up a girl that is asleep is ok because he is intoxicated? Thats inexcusable.

[Äijä]

I dont accept rape in any form but we have to start giving stigma to all that drink too much and act crazy.

Finnish woman that had just gotten engaged went to a bar when her man was not home, she also brought home a man tattooed in the face for some drinks..
The man happened to be one of those that hear voices and uses drugs, he raped, slaughtered and rumors have it, ate some of her.

I dont personally drink too much, never cheated any woman and I call that karma.

[Hierarchalist]

I understand that, i don't deny that is it dangerous for any woman to drink excessively to that point.. but you don't even need to be completely drunk to be overpowered by most men, some choices of words he used for his reasoning is wrong though.

Women are more likely to be raped by someone they know than a complete stranger, so his logic in that instance would be 'it's a womans fault they were trusting or drank in the presence of a friend/acquaintance'. Every person ultimately should have a right to a good time without the threat of rape though.

So what signals is a woman giving off when she exposes her tits and ass for everyone to see, gets drunk or high and starts making advances to whatever turd she lays eyes on? Then when she wakes up the next morning next to some guy she doesn't like the look of and declares that she was "raped".....

Who is "responsible" here? And who doesn't want to be "responsible" here?

There is a certain complacent entitlement that women seem to possess. That even when they're asking for it, a man is somehow to blame for taking advantage of their stupidity, lack of self-awareness and ignorance as to the consequences of their own actions.

[MissProvocateur]

"NOthing I thought you were asleep!!" As if that would make it ok?! WTF!!!

That's exactly what I thought at the moment, but I didn't say it because I was too stupid/scared/shocked.


But a drunk man is responsible for his actions right? Giving woman ability to kill herself with alcohol and expecting everyone else to be responsible?
What a load of crap.

There's one thing you have to understand, a drunk woman/man (rape victim, really.) Is usually unable to defend him/herself. The perpetrator is always stronger than the victim, so being drunk isn't really an excuse. Besides, most men who are so incredibly drunk they can't make basic moral decisions such as "don't rape.", can't even get an erection. If a man is sober enough to get an erection and force himself upon another human being, he is sober enough to know what he's doing.

[Nehellenia]

By the same logic a blind drunk woman wouldnt know if she was raped.
Thus disabling that logic. If a man is drunk then he cant be helf responsible unless a woman is responsible

He can when there's no consent given, and memory may be fragmented for the woman in such a thing, that's why there are rape kits taken by hospitals. Trust me.. i'm sure a woman could physically notice a pain like rape.

[Äijä]

That's exactly what I thought at the moment, but I didn't say it because I was too stupid/scared/shocked.



There's one thing you have to understand, a drunk woman/man (rape victim, really.) Is usually unable to defend him/herself. The perpetrator is always stronger than the victim, so being drunk isn't really an excuse. Besides, most men who are so incredibly drunk they can't make basic moral decisions such as "don't rape.", can't even get an erection. If a man is sober enough to get an erection and force himself upon another human being, he is sober enough to know what he's doing.

I would have to agree, it takes technique and stamina, not to mention if it would not be wet.

[MissProvocateur]

So what signals is a woman giving off when she exposes her tits and ass for everyone to see, gets drunk or high and starts making advances to whatever turd she lays eyes on? Then when she wakes up the next morning next to some guy she doesn't like the look of and declares that she was "raped".....

Who is "responsible" here? And who doesn't want to be "responsible" here?

There is a certain complacent entitlement that women seem to possess. That even when they're asking for it, a man is somehow to blame for taking advantage of their stupidity, lack of self-awareness and ignorance as to the consequences of their own actions.

That's incredibly judgmental. I understand many "rape" crimes are reported and that sometimes It's just a girl who regrets having sex with someone because her reputation is harmed (I know someone who did this, and I agree it's utterly repugnant.), but most of the time that isn't the case. Nobody is asking for rape. They are either asking for sex or to be left alone, but never rape.

[Nehellenia]

So what signals is a woman giving off when she exposes her tits and ass for everyone to see, gets drunk or high and starts making advances to whatever turd she lays eyes on? Then when she wakes up the next morning next to some guy she doesn't like the look of and declares that she was "raped".....

Who is "responsible" here? And who doesn't want to be "responsible" here?

There is a certain complacent entitlement that women seem to possess. That even when they're asking for it, a man is somehow to blame for taking advantage of their stupidity, lack of self-awareness and ignorance as to the consequences of their own actions.

That is called a 'regrettable one night stand'. Rape is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

[Hierarchalist]

That's incredibly judgmental. I understand many "rape" crimes are reported and that sometimes It's just a girl who regrets having sex with someone because her reputation is harmed (I know someone who did this, and I agree it's utterly repugnant.), but most of the time that isn't the case. Nobody is asking for rape. They are either asking for sex or to be left alone, but never rape.

It would seem that accountability only begins when one is to "protect" a moron from his/her own stupidity and/or poor judgment.

You see, when you see an idiot using a knife to scratch his balls you, as a good Samaritan, must go to him and explain why this act can lead to a result humanity might desire genetically while not desiring it mimetically.

Idiocy, the weakest of the weak, must be "saved", as these Judeo-Christian whims like to call it.
In fact they should be saved from their own weakness.

Whereas in nature weakness is exploited to the benefit of the stronger, in a Judeo-Christian diseased society weakness must be protected.

[Wadaad]

To put yourself in a vulnerable state is a personal failing...but to claim that intoxicated victims are as guilty as their attackers is ridiculous.

[Wadaad]

But a drunk man is responsible for his actions right? Giving woman ability to kill herself with alcohol and expecting everyone else to be responsible?
What a load of crap.

Assault is assault, drunk or otherwise...laying there passed out is not a crime.

[RandoBloom]

WTF? I can see where youd argue if both are drunk and willing. After all consent is consent if they are both intoxicated and on the same page..but to say that an intoxicated man feeling up a girl that is asleep is ok because he is intoxicated? Thats inexcusable.

They argue that woman is not responsible if she drinks herself senseless and ends up raped, but a drunk man is responsible. Either both are or non are.


That's exactly what I thought at the moment, but I didn't say it because I was too stupid/scared/shocked.
There's one thing you have to understand, a drunk woman/man (rape victim, really.) Is usually unable to defend him/herself. The perpetrator is always stronger than the victim, so being drunk isn't really an excuse. Besides, most men who are so incredibly drunk they can't make basic moral decisions such as "don't rape.", can't even get an erection. If a man is sober enough to get an erection and force himself upon another human being, he is sober enough to know what he's doing.

Most men? That sure is a scientific method. If a woman isnt responsible due to drunkeness how can a man be?


He can when there's no consent given, and memory may be fragmented for the woman in such a thing, that's why there are rape kits taken by hospitals. Trust me.. i'm sure a woman could physically notice a pain like rape.

Did he give his consent? How do we know he isnt raped?


That is called a 'regrettable one night stand'. Rape is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

And how do we know what is true and what is false? The regret one night stand report" is the most common of rape reports. Over 85%!!!

[MissProvocateur]

It would seem that accountability only begins when one is to "protect" a moron from his/her own stupidity and/or poor judgment.

You see, when you see an idiot using a knife to scratch his balls you, as a good Samaritan, must go to him and explain why this act can lead to a result humanity might desire genetically while not desiring it mimetically.

Idiocy, the weakest of the weak, must be "saved", as these Judeo-Christian whims like to call it.
In fact they should be saved from their own weakness.

Whereas in nature weakness is exploited to the benefit of the stronger, in a Judeo-Christian diseased society weakness must be protected.

Most of the time it isn't because of the victim's stupidity, it's because they are physically weak. There are plenty of women who get raped without being intoxicated, and I can assure you they were not "asking for it.", men are stronger than women, period. This means it's easy for a man to overpower and rape a woman, no matter how drunk/sober she is. If a woman drank a little, and some guy follows her home, she isn't "asking for it.", it's the perpretator who is Vermin. You seem to be on the rapist's side, which is quite sad. Most inotxicated women are quite aware that they are getting raped, but are unable to fight it due to their physical condition. Society should be teaching people "Don't rape." instead of "Don't get raped." Blaming the victim is cruel and insensitive.

[Hierarchalist]

That is called a 'regrettable one night stand'. Rape is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

No. It's called "taking advantage of woman's poor judgement" or do you think poor judgement should be sheltered?

Yes, let us begin with our bullshit by pretending that the term "rapist" has any meaning outside human social and cultural conventions, then let us claim that rape is a human fabrication and that it does not occur in nature...or worse let us pretend, like good Christians and liberals, that we cannot be included amongst these base, vulgar beasts....for we are humans and so we must be evaluated using higher standards.

Of course who decided what these standards are, or how self-evident they are, us a matter we shall ignored, to preserve our sense of high-browed intellectual, moralistic, discourse, that never challenges the status quo of egalitarianism nor the idea that "all deserve" this or that.

Better yet, in order to keep the ladies happy, let's pretend this adolescent crap actually makes sense outside these same human conventions.

Then let us nod our heads in agreement when one of them says that gender is a human invention, rather than it being a continuance, a social application, of sexual reproductive roles.

Then let us agree to protect and defend the weak, while they declare to be equal but still deserving of some social considerations to retain the delusion that they are independent, and let us go on our way...knowing that some of this lying might eventually get us laid..

[MissProvocateur]

Most men? That sure is a scientific method. If a woman isnt responsible due to drunkeness how can a man be?




If a woman is raped, she wasn't consenting to sex in the first place, thus the woman was making a conscious decision at the time. She is probably attempting to defend herself, but is unable to do so, and as I said, most women can't defend themselves even if they are sober. A man who rapes is also aware of his decision, no matter how drunk, alcohol loosens your inhibitions, but it doesn't turn you into a complete different person, and as I said, if a man is sober enough to overpower a woman, hold her down, get an erection, and rape her, he is probably aware of what he's doing, and alcohol can't be blamed for that. It's not like guys "accidentally" rape women when they're drunk.

[RandoBloom]

Most of the time it isn't because of the victim's stupidity, it's because they are physically weak. There are plenty of women who get raped without being intoxicated, and I can assure you they were not "asking for it.", men are stronger than women, period. This means it's easy for a man to overpower and rape a woman, no matter how drunk/sober she is. If a woman drank a little, and some guy follows her home, she isn't "asking for it.", it's the perpretator who is Vermin. You seem to be on the rapist's side, which is quite sad. Most inotxicated women are quite aware that they are getting raped, but are unable to fight it due to their physical condition. Society should be teaching people "Don't rape." instead of "Don't get raped." Blaming the victim is cruel and insensitive.


Dont steal, rather than dont lock your door?
Women are acting like everyone is telling men its OK to rape and now we must start telling them to dont do it?
Feminism is trully a sick ideology

[RandoBloom]

If a woman is raped, she wasn't consenting to sex in the first place, thus the woman was making a conscious decision at the time. She is probably attempting to defend herself, but is unable to do so, and as I said, most women can't defend themselves even if they are sober. A man who rapes is also aware of his decision, no matter how drunk, alcohol loosens your inhibitions, but it doesn't turn you into a complete different person, and as I said, if a man is sober enough to overpower a woman, hold her down, get an erection, and rape her, he is probably aware of what he's doing, and alcohol can't be blamed for that. It's not like guys "accidentally" rape women when they're drunk.

Not true. Alcohol can make you do things you othervise wouldnt. Just like drugs. Claiming otherwise just to feel better is wrong. And what if a man is weaker than you? What if he is 50 pund paraplegic without legs? Should we convict the raped woman of rape?

[MissProvocateur]

Dont steal, rather than dont lock your door?
Women are acting like everyone is telling men its OK to rape and now we must start telling them to dont do it?
Feminism is trully a sick ideology

I'm not a feminist. I'm a realist. I seek equality, not superiority. I understand women are different to men, and that men are stronger than women in some ares (and vice-versa.). And yes, Society should be teaching people not to commit a crime instead of ignoring them and telling others to protect themselves.

If a man was drunk and he was murdered/mugged/raped, would that be the man's fault? No. It wouldn't. At least not entirely. Sure, women DO have to protect themselves.

But think of it this way.

When I stopped the guy from doing what he was doing while I wasn't sober, I was still aware of what he was doing and managed to stop him in time. But had he wanted to, he would have been able to overpower me anyway, even if I was entirely sober, he would still be able to rape me if he decided to do so. Remember I'm 1.70 m tall, and this guy was around 1.87 and much stronger than me. Now, I was certainly not asking for it since I had rejected all his advances during that night and I was controlling myself, even going as far as excusing myself early to rest. Some people are just more physically powerful than others, in the case of rape, that's always the case. Rapists just pick drunk women because they think they won't remember and that they will struggle less, this however, does not make it O.K. for someone to rape someone else. It's unfrair to punish both parties equally when one of them had a clear advantage over the other to begin with. It's almost as if you were SUPPORTNG rape, that's disgusting. Remember that men and boys get raped too!

[Nehellenia]

No. It's called "taking advantage of woman's poor judgement" or do you think poor judgement should be sheltered?

Yes, let us begin with our bullshit by pretending that the term "rapist" has any meaning outside human social and cultural conventions, then let us claim that rape is a human fabrication and that it does not occur in nature...or worse let us pretend, like good Christians and liberals, that we cannot be included amongst these base, vulgar beasts....for we are humans and so we must be evaluated using higher standards.

Of course who decided what these standards are, or how self-evident they are, us a matter we shall ignored, to preserve our sense of high-browed intellectual, moralistic, discourse, that never challenges the status quo of egalitarianism nor the idea that "all deserve" this or that.

Better yet, in order to keep the ladies happy, let's pretend this adolescent crap actually makes sense outside these same human conventions.

Then let us nod our heads in agreement when one of them says that gender is a human invention, rather than it being a continuance, a social application, of sexual reproductive roles.

Then let us agree to protect and defend the weak, while they declare to be equal but still deserving of some social considerations to retain the delusion that they are independent, and let us go on our way...knowing that some of this lying might eventually get us laid..

I've never met or heard myself an instance of a couple having a drunken one night stand where the woman has then charged the man with rape. Never in my life so far..

You know also that rape kits can determine between consensual sex and non-consensual rape, due to force and damage inside a woman right.. so women who get this done, they can usually figure out who is telling the truth and who isn't by physical evidence as well. A woman who wasn't raped isn't actually going to jump to get an invasive test like that and then sit in a police station reciting her experience to police who are trained on lie detection cues.

[MissProvocateur]

Not true. Alcohol can make you do things you othervise wouldnt. Just like drugs. Claiming otherwise just to feel better is wrong. And what if a man is weaker than you? What if he is 50 pund paraplegic without legs? Should we convict the raped woman of rape?

If he's a 50 pound paraplegic without legs, then the woman, if conscious, would probably be able to push him off and simply not get raped, that's true. But in the vast majority of cases, the men raping are stronger and physically larger than the women, this is something you can't deny.

And no Hrluj, if I was drunk I wouldn't do something so morally wrong that I would scar someone for life. We do have moral codes. Alcohol is no excuse for a crime.

[RandoBloom]

I'm not a feminist. I'm a realist. I seek equality, not superiority. I understand women are different to men, and that men are stronger than women in some ares (and vice-versa.). And yes, Society should be teaching people not to commit a crime instead of ignoring them and telling others to protect themselves.

If a man was drunk and he was murdered/mugged/raped, would that be the man's fault? No. It wouldn't. At least not entirely. Sure, women DO have to protect themselves.

But think of it this way.

When I stopped the guy from doing what he was doing while I wasn't sober, I was still aware of what he was doing and managed to stop him in time. But had he wanted to, he would have been able to overpower me anyway, even if I was entirely sober, he would still be able to rape me if he decided to do so. Remember I'm 1.70 m tall, and this guy was around 1.87 and much stronger than me. Now, I was certainly not asking for it since I had rejected all his advances during that night and I was controlling myself, even going as far as excusing myself early to rest. Some people are just more physically powerful than others, in the case of rape, that's always the case. Rapists just pick drunk women because they think they won't remember and that they will struggle less, this however, does not make it O.K. for someone to rape someone else. It's unfrair to punish both parties equally when one of them had a clear advantage over the other to begin with. It's almost as if you were SUPPORTNG rape, that's disgusting. Remember that men and boys get raped too!

Society is already doing that. Have you seen a father with a son in a park, with father shoving towards women and saying, in 11 years you will rape all of them, and be a good boy?
Puting yourself in extreme danger in a self conscious way what excesive drinking is going to cause equals sharing responsibility.
You cant drink yourself to blacking out, while demanding everyone else to keep nice and sober and take care of you.

No I am not suporting rape. I am simply not suporting double standards and something so vague.
A woman can feel regret a night later and claim rape. A woman might not like the man when she wakes up, and claim rape.
A woman might want to force a man to do something or blackmail him, and thus claim rape...

[RandoBloom]

I've never met or heard myself an instance of a couple having a drunken one night stand where the woman has then charged the man with rape. Never in my life so far..

You know also that rape kits can determine between consensual sex and non-consensual rape, due to force and damage inside a woman right.. so women who get this done, they can usually figure out who is telling the truth and who isn't by physical evidence as well. A woman who wasn't raped isn't actually going to jump to get an invasive test like that and then sit in a police station reciting her experience to police who are trained on lie detection cues.

Not true. Woman simply claims to be too drunk and thus there would be no traces of rape in form of tearing

[MissProvocateur]

Society is already doing that. Have you seen a father with a son in a park, with father shoving towards women and saying, in 11 years you will rape all of them, and be a good boy?
Puting yourself in extreme danger in a self conscious way what excesive drinking is going to cause equals sharing responsibility.
You cant drink yourself to blacking out, while demanding everyone else to keep nice and sober and take care of you.

No I am not suporting rape. I am simply not suporting double standards and something so vague.
A woman can feel regret a night later and claim rape. A woman might not like the man when she wakes up, and claim rape.
A woman might want to force a man to do something or blackmail him, and thus claim rape...

This isn't the case most of the time. Most women who claim rape, truly were raped. Those who regret one night stands and claim it's rape aren't the majority. The woman who take advantage of this system are obviously wrong, I knew a girl who had sex with this guy, regretted it, and then claimed she was raped. 2 weeks later she was making out with half of the guys in the school. Obviously she wasn't a rape victim and she tried to lie to cover up her acts, but this isn't the case most of the time. And I can assure you that most women who are drunk and get raped aren't drunk to the point of blacking out.

[RandoBloom]

This isn't the case most of the time. Most women who claim rape, truly were raped. Those who regret one night stands and claim it's rape aren't the majority. The woman who take advantage of this system are obviously wrong, I knew a girl who had sex with this guy, regretted it, and then claimed she was raped. 2 weeks later she was making out with half of the guys in the school. Obviously she wasn't a rape victim and she tried to lie to cover up her acts, but this isn't the case most of the time. And I can assure you that most women who are drunk and get raped aren't drunk to the point of blacking out.

And yet the man was fucked after the claim

[Nehellenia]

Not true. Woman simply claims to be too drunk and thus there would be no traces of rape in form of tearing

But then it's just her word against his. But if she was too drunk, how can she prove rape if there is no physical evidence and her memory is too blacked out, then she would be contradicting herself. It is too uncommon a circumstance, i mean i get where you're coming from with this, but if you want a person charged with raping you and they didn't do it, sure.. the woman then should be punished with fraud, but this is such a rare instance happening.
Everyone runs the risk of something maybe happening to them, drunk or not.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I completely disagree with it (as a girl.), just because a woman is drunk does not give an excuse for a guy to sexually assault her.

Here's a fun story!

It reminds me of what happened to me a little over a year ago, I was at a party in a friend's house, and this guy (who was actually really cute), kept hitting on me, but I wasn't interested in him at the time because I had a boyfriend. He didn't give up though. At around 4-5 a.m., people started to leave but he stayed along with a few friends. I was feeling tired so I excused myself to the guest room and laid down for a while (I wasn't drunk, but I admit I wasn't entirely sober either.) as I was falling alseep, I hear someone walking into the room, and SURPRISE! It was the guy who wa shitting on me earlier, he walked in quietly so I just pretended to be asleep so he left me alone.

He started whispering stuff like "Sasha? Are you awake?"

I didn't respond.

Then I feel him sitting on the bed and (here comes the creepy part), he starts running his fingers down my back and hips, he does this for a few seconds before I turn around and say "What the fuck are you doing?" He just stands up, says "Nothing, sorry. Thought you were asleep." and leaves as if nothing happened. I should have told my friend at the time about the incident, but I was far too shocked and I really didn't tell anyone.

Had I been truly drunk or passed out, I don't know what he would've done, regardless of one's state, sexual assault is not cool. To this day I still want to punch the guy in the face.

Rape is rape, a drunk victim is often unable to defend him/herself, and there's no excuse for raping someone who was passed out either. That should never be acceptable. It's like blaming women of getting raped for what they were wearing. I do, however, advice women to not drink too much around strange men, even if it isn't your fault they raped you, it could happen, women are far more likely to get raped than men, and we are also naturally physically weaker as well (I don't care what you say, it's true. Most men are stronger than most women.). You just have to be careful. You never know what will run inside a sick fuck's head who wants to take advantage of you.

But it wouldn't be creepy if all he did was run his hand through your hair, right? Asking for a friend.

[MissProvocateur]

But it wouldn't be creepy if all he did was run his hand through your hair, right? Asking for a friend.

It would be weird still, I still wouldn't like it, but running your fingers down someone's hair isn't as sexual as running your hands and fingers down someone's body.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Not true. Alcohol can make you do things you othervise wouldnt. Just like drugs. Claiming otherwise just to feel better is wrong. And what if a man is weaker than you? What if he is 50 pund paraplegic without legs? Should we convict the raped woman of rape?

Most of this is bullshit, it just takes away some of your inhibitions. But you decided to do alcohol or drugs so it's still your responsibility. In the west men can control themselves, because the monsters go to jail and eventually get weeded out.

[RandoBloom]

But then it's just her word against his. But if she was too drunk, how can she prove rape if there is no physical evidence and her memory is too blacked out, then she would be contradicting herself. It is too uncommon a circumstance, i mean i get where you're coming from with this, but if you want a person charged with raping you and they didn't do it, sure.. the woman then should be punished with fraud, but this is such a rare instance happening.
Everyone runs the risk of something maybe happening to them, drunk or not.

But in case of such drunkedness there is no tearing. Thus your word against mine. Thus a man ends up being fucked up inocent.
And that is what I am coming at.

[Illancha]

Solution: don't drink.

It's that simple.

[Nehellenia]

Solution: don't drink.

It's that simple.

Me personally, i don't :)

[Odin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9X1WbKrrMQ

[Bobby Martnen]

If two drunk drivers are in a collision, one doesn't determine fault on the basis of demographic details such as each driver's sex. But when two drunken college students "collide," the male one is almost always presumed to be at fault. His diminished capacity owing to alcohol is not a mitigating factor, but her diminished capacity is an aggravating factor for him.

I agree with him.

[♥ Lily ♥]

Sorry, I disagree.

What if a man was intoxicated or medicated, and another guy decided to rape him? What if a man with HIV decided to rape him?

What next? If a person is intoxicated, do they deserve to be mugged and robbed and stabbed?! Blame the victims of crimes instead of the attacker?

[KMack]

Sorry, I disagree.

What if a man was intoxicated or medicated, and another guy decided to rape him? What if a man with HIV decided to rape him?

What next? If a person is intoxicated, do they deserve to be mugged and robbed and stabbed?! Blame the victims of crimes instead of the attacker?

If both parties are intoxicated, but consent to sex it is not a crime. One girl I was dating showed up at my house, after going out and drinking.
She was reasonably intoxicated, capable of driving to my house and easily able to communicate and talk etc. She wanted to have sex so we did, not a crime. If one person is so intoxicated that literally can't consent, and the other is not and they engage the other that could certainly be a crime.

[Bobby Martnen]

Sorry, I disagree.

What if a man was intoxicated or medicated, and another guy decided to rape him? What if a man with HIV decided to rape him?

What next? If a person is intoxicated, do they deserve to be mugged and robbed and stabbed?! Blame the victims of crimes instead of the attacker?

Let's say John and Mary have sex while both are drunk. Neither is a rapist, neither is a victim. They're just drunk idiots who hooked up.

[♥ Lily ♥]

:picard1:

[Phenix]

The law does not protect fools.

If someone indicated a sexual desire under alcohol effect, the person should be responsible for the consequences of his acts.
But if the person didn't showed a clear will for sexual intercourse (eg: lying down on a bench from booze) they shouldn't be accountable.
It's a difficult subject and it have to be taken case by case, problem is that rape in western world is now defined as any sex act the woman later regrets.

[sean]

https://i.imgur.com/EzSfR8G.png

A court in Minnesota ruled that a man who had sex with a woman while she was passed out on his couch cannot be found guilty of rape because the victim got herself drunk beforehand.

Now you can just walk up and down the streets near the bars trolling the sidewalks and parks for incoherently drunk girls. The hooker industry is done for.

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1458235559838.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1582426385083.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1452753902670.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1478289521653.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1408388573028.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1490408763792.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1549632163165.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1506644590770.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1440521334770.gif
https://imgur.com/Ks2Uw2U.gif

Maybe these loose whores will think twice before they get drunk and hook up with random guys just so they can turn around and cry rape later.

Finally women are being forced to take responsibility for their shit tier life choices. It's about God damned time.

Ironically, the state that was the first to give into BLM is the one that fights back against feminism lel. They only did that because the accused was a negro who raped a white girl, he actually picked up a woman who'd been turned away from a bar for being too intoxicated.

If it was a white dude, they would have had him on 24/7 on every mainstream outlet for months. Then threw the book at him.

The underlining problem here is that we assume women can be responsible for their own safety. In a sane society male family members wouldn't be allowing women to go out drinking, and putting themselves in situations where they can be "raped" while under the influence.

I don’t believe women should scream rape if they had drunk sex, but to fuck someone who’s not even conscious is disgusting. If she’s not even responding, that’s rape. If she says “yes” and then later regrets it because she chose to drink and fuck, then that’s her fault.