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microrobert

02-13-2014, 04:14 AM

Por vender simbología nazi tendrá que hacer cursos en el Inadi y en el Museo del Holocausto

El hombre vendía todo tipo de simbología nazi a través de internet. Fue acusado de violar la ley de actos discriminatorios.

Un hombre que vendía simbología nazi fue condenado a realizar cursos en el Inadi y en el Museo del Holocausto de Buenos Aires, sobre "sensibilización de prácticas discriminatorias".

Se trata de una persona, cuya identidad no trascendió, que mediante páginas de internet vendía toda clase de simbología nazi, como medallas, pines, hebillas, brazaletes, insignias, banderas y cuadros con simbología nazi, y fue acusada de violar la ley de actos discriminatorios.

El fiscal penal, contranevional y de faltas de la ciudad de Buenos Aires, Gustavo Galante, pidió la elevación a juicio del acusado y acordó una probation para evitar el proceso en su contra.

Así, fue condenado a realizar trabajo comunitario en una institución de bien público, y realizar cursos en el Inadi y en el Museo del Holocausto de Buenos Aires sobre prevención y sensibilización de prácticas discriminatorias.

http://www.lavoz.com.ar/ciudadanos/por-vender-simbologia-nazi-tendra-que-hacer-cursos-en-el-inadi-y-en-el-museo-del

Also

02-14-2014, 09:52 PM

Longbowman

02-14-2014, 09:57 PM

necesitas una pasatiempo mejor.

Argentano

02-14-2014, 10:06 PM

no entiendo como un tal microrobert se entera de esta noticia antes que yo...

Also

02-14-2014, 10:08 PM

no entiendo como un tal microrobert se entera de esta noticia antes que yo...

He must browse many sorts of nazi-like forums and found this news being shared.

microrobert

02-15-2014, 05:09 AM

I see even Argentina has a holocaust museum. There is one in Brazil too.

It's not surprising.

The "holocaust" is a religion for everybody and everywhere ...

Jews add “Book of Shoah” the Bible

The Holocaust is becoming a religion

by Vincent Reynouard

https://shoabloger.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/jews-add-a-book-on-the-holocaust-to-the-bible/

The press announced that Jews have added a “Book of Shoah” to the Bible

This is not a new article but the religious status of the Shoah is even more pronounced today than at the time this piece was written. Moreover, the project has not been abandoned. (Shoabloger (https://shoabloger.wordpress.com/))

http://shoabloger.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/megillat_couv_llb.jpg?w=361&h=552 (http://shoabloger.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/megillat_couv_llb.jpg)

On 30 March 2004, the national Belgian daily “La Libre Belgique” featured a front page headline: “A book about the Holocaust in the Jewish Bible? “. Two weeks later, the newspaper Le Figaro repeated the story. [1] (http://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/megillat.htm#_ftn1)

The reader could learn that a new Megillat (in Hebrew – a scroll which contains a manuscript, often a sacred text), the “Melligat Hashoah”, had been crafted at the liberal synagogue in Brighton (England). It would now be offered to different Jewish communities around the world, not only “to be copied and integrated into the liturgy of 27 Nisan“ (Holocaust Day) [2] (http://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/megillat.htm#_ftn2), but also to “take place in the ‘holy ark’ in synagogues generally, alongside scrolls of the Torah “[3] (http://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/megillat.htm#_ftn3).

It was therefore a question of adding to the twenty-four books that make up the Jewish Bible a twenty-fifth dealing with the Holocaust. Recall that the latest addition to the holy book dates back to 1500 years ago when between 400 and 600 rabbis had decided to include the Book of Esther. This shows the importance of the event.

A several years old project

Although presented as a kind of scoop, this case is not new. The Melligat Hashoah was presented for the first time on 7 November 2002 (64th anniversary of the “Kristallnacht”) to the Jewish community in Toronto. The first reading took place in synagogues in 2003, April 29, on the “Day of Martyrs and Heroes of the Holocaust” [5].

It all began in 1995

It all began in 1995. Worried by the the rise of “denial”, a “Holocaust survivor” living in Toronto, Alex Eisen, felt he had to create a liturgy for April 29 “to make sure that the tragedy would not be forgotten “[6]. At that time, there had already been four annual, 24 hours long, ceremonies of public reading of the names deported Jews, organized on the date of 27 Nisan. This initiative marked a beginning of ritualization of the Holocaust. But the goal of A. Eisen was greater: it was to raise the alleged “Holocaust” to the status of revealed truth, “truth” solemnly recalled every year.

The Jews oppose the project

Apprised of the project, the Chief Rabbi of Israel Meir Lau, rejected on the grounds of religious orthodoxy [7]. We can add that for many Jews, the commemoration of the Holocaust should remain in the non-religious sphere. In 2000, the president of a local branch of the “Sons and Daughters of Survivors of the Holocaust,” Ruth Littner Shaw wrote that “Yom Hashoah” should not “have the character of a religious holiday “[8] and should remain a simple commemoration.

Rabbis and theologians support the project

This first setback did not discourage A. Eisen. For their part, the rabbis and theologians believed that in order to persist (especially after the death of the last “survivors”), Yom Hashoah had to develop “a set of rituals and to become less secular”. [9]

According to Rabbi David Golinkin, current president of Schecter Institute, an institution that is responsible for religious education:

Judaism retains the memory of historical events only when they are rooted in religious rituals [...]. The lighting of six torches by survivors in the courtyard of Yad Vashem is a meaningful ritual, but will it continue when there will be no more survivors? [10]

These words are similar to those of Rabbi Daniel Fahri who said:

In Judaism, the work on the preservation of the past is consists of liturgy, study and ritual. However, with regard to the Holocaust, almost nothing has been done so far to develop a ritualized memory. Beyond the celebration of Yom Hashoah, any initiative is welcome as long as it is based on the long tradition of our rituals and our liturgy which have constituted our identity throughout millennia. [11]

In addition, it is undeniable that since the war many Jews have fallen into atheism on the grounds that if God Almighty exist, he would never have let his people get slaughtered. One example is the former Liberal Rabbi Richard Rubenstein, author of a 1966 study entitled “After Auschwitz” who became an atheist. Rabbi David Meyer confessed that for Jews, the Holocaust is a “reason to doubt God and His righteousness” [12]. Furthermore, he stated:

[...] Today, the issues related to the Holocaust hamper our faith. Why practice the commandments if God did not saved us during the Holocaust? [13]

Consequently the proposed development of a religious ritual seemed to be necessary not only to transmit the memory, but also as an attempt to reconcile the Holocaust with the Jewish religion.

1999: Rabbinical Assembly endorses the project

In 1997 a small prayer book which included a special service for 27 Nisan was published. But A. Eisen was still not satisfied. Two years later, he met Rabbi D. Golinkin and requested its approval by the Rabbinical Assembly, which includes 1,600 Conservative rabbis. [14] Not surprisingly, it gave its approval to the project. D. Golinkin then set up an academic committee to prepare a draft text (Id.). Professor Avigdor Shinan (son of survivors [15]) was chosen to compose the modern Hebrew Megillat and Rabbi Jules Harlow to produce an English translation. [16] For his part, A. Eisen gathered $280 000 in Toronto alone to support the project. [17]

The Shoah Scroll composed

Six months later, the scroll was composed. Six chapters long, it places great emphasis on “testimonials”. There is that of a Christian journalist who tells what he saw in the Warsaw ghetto, that of a woman deported to a camp and that of a young Jewish boy forced to pull out gold teeth of victims on the way to crematoria (including his own brother). Nothing in it, therefore, is either new nor solid (but how could it be otherwise?). The fifth chapter is a eulogy of those who died during the “Holocaust.” The sixth (and last) refers to the rebuilding of Jewish life after the war it commemorates particularly those who migrated to Israel.

2002: the “inspired” Scroll is presented for the first time

November 7, 2002, during the first presentation of the Megillah (see document), A. Shinan stated that the text was written “through him, not by him“:
I sat at my computer, and after six hours, the first draft appeared [...]. It was as if someone lead my hands and my head. [18]

A. Shinan undoubtedly wanted to make it appear that the Megillah was “inspired” by God and thus “revealed”, like the other books of the Bible.

But even for Jews fanatical about “Remembrance”, there are limits to ridicule. Asked in 2004 by La “Libre Belgique”, the British rabbi who is busy spreading this new text, David Meyer, clearly stated:

As for the direct divine inspiration, Judaism believes that it has not taken place since the destruction of the First Temple and the last of the prophets. [19]

However, the reasons he gives for the introduction of the Megillah in the Bible are interesting. He says:

[...] Many Jews are “inspired” by the Holocaust in the way they think about their faith and religious practice. Thus, because of the depth of suffering, the Holocaust is an event that “inspires” the present and the future of Judaism and, as such, the “Megillat Hashoah” can probably claim to be an “inspired” text .

God alone is no longer sufficient, He needs to be combined with the Holocaust

For Rabbi Meyer, therefore, God is no longer the only source of inspiration, there is one other: the Holocaust. We deduce that, since Auschwitz, God alone is no longer sufficient and consequently the Jewish religion must be centered not on him only, but on the couple God+Shoah.

Some will accuse me of exaggerating. They are wrong. Interviewed, Rabbi Meyer clearly stated that since the Shoah “[I]which overwrites Judaism” , the Bible was insufficient to nourish the religious reflection:

[I]It is difficult to relate to biblical texts that speak of suffering to understand the Holocaust. [...] In the Bible, suffering is never unjustified; it happens “because we did something.” But faced with the Holocaust, the vast majority of rabbis and Jewish thinkers today are not prepared to contemplate the six million dead, a million and a half children, and say “Because of their sins” [... ]. So we need a text where Jews can express their doubts in relation to this suffering. But such a text does not exist in the Bible. Should we not then create it? [20]

The good rabbi went even further by saying that this creation was necessary to “restore vitality to all other biblical texts“
[...] Whenever I read a biblical passage – the sacrifice of Abraham, the prophetic books and the book of Job … – I wonder how to apply this with the ever-present Holocaust in my mind! But the addition of a specific book would become the focus of the reflection on the Holocaust and thereby restore vitality to all the other biblical texts .

In short, without the liturgy of the Shoah, the Bible has no vitality. In other words, God is now inseparable from the “Holocaust” and together they form an Entity. It is therefore understandable that for David Golinkin this Megillat has a “[I]historical significance“. [21]

The Scroll will be written by a scribe on parchment

But Rabbi Meyer, this was not enough:

While bringing innovations aimed at integrating Yom Hashoah as a major commemoration in our liturgical calendar, and while offering content of remarkable depth, it seems that the format and the current support of the Megillat Hashoah are not sufficient in view of the role that such a text should play in the future of Judaism.
Megillat Hashoah the – booklet of mere sixty pages – should it not rather be a real manuscript, written by a scribe on a parchment, thus complying with the scribal rules of our ancestral tradition? In order to commemorate the past, it seems necessary to integrate it with our tradition, with date and liturgy, using the “tools” of this tradition so that the events of the past can be really rooted in our religious life. [22]

That is why Rabbi Meyer fashioned a real Megillat:

The “Megillat Hashoah” the Shoah Scroll, is a parchment manuscript with 12 columns in Hebrew and comes wrapped around a wooden shaft. This scroll was written by a scribe, Marc Michaels, following the traditional rules which include the calligraphy, the tools even the ethics of conduct of the scribe. [23]

A scroll that will be used extensively

Not only in the synagogues…

If the Megillat gets accepted, not only Jewish believers can hope to return to the faith some of their own atheists, but also the belief in the Holocaust will be cast in concrete forever, because it becomes inseparable from God. Note also that the good rabbi wants to see this new roller used very widely:

We would like it to be used not only in synagogues, but throughout the world, in community centers and schools. We also want it to be used by the Jews of all persuasions – whether Reformed, Orthodox or secular. We believe that Yom Hashoah should be observed by all Jews everywhere. [24]

The Orthodox reject to Scroll …

The question is whether this Megillat will indeed be accepted as the twenty-fifth book. Unsurprisingly, Orthodox Jews have rejected it immediately, as did some “liberal” Jews.

…but show no inclination for revisionism

But it would be wrong to see in it a tendency to revisionism. Daniel Farhi expresses the thinking of almost all Jews when he says confidently:
Thanks to the work of historians and witnesses of the disaster, the historicity of the Holocaust is now indisputable. [25]

With or without the Scroll, the Remembrance is already ritualized

Their rejection of Megillat Hashoah has another reason: they believe that the “Holocaust” is already celebrated sufficiently and thus not likely to be forgotten. Asked by “La Libre Belgique”, the Chief Rabbi of Brussels said:

To convey and transmit its memory, it is not necessary, in the Jewish tradition, to add a book. The 27th of Nisan is the ‘official’ date of the commemoration of the Holocaust. Then, at the discretion of the Hebrew calendar, many key moments in the liturgy are there to remind of the Holocaust. At each celebration, the feast of Passover pilgrimage, Shavuot and Sukkot, the ceremony of “Yiskor” is held in its memory. There, the Torah in hand, we recall the memory of the six million dead in the Nazi camps. Also on Yom Kippur, one of the most powerful moments of the liturgy is devoted to the evocation of the memory of the victims of the Holocaust. Finally, the date of the 9th of Av commemorates the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. A day of fasting, prayers and lamentations of Jeremiah. Over time, this day became the paradigm of all the disasters that have befallen the Jewish people: the Inquisition, autodafes, crusades … and of course the Holocaust. We can rest assured that it will not be forgotten and is already an integral part of our liturgy.

Besides, a French Jew, Pierre Haiat, wrote recently a haggadah on the Holocaust:

His wish was to ritualize the memory of the Holocaust even more through a story that is modeled on that of the Passover haggadah and is accompanied by a seder. During the seder, the symbolic foods are eaten, and it is done reading the story of the terrible hardships suffered by [the] “ancestors”, punctuated by the texts of the literature of the Holocaust, and songs in Yiddish and Judeo-Spanish, inspired by this martyrdom. [26]

In short: with or without Megillat Hashoah, the “Holocaust” is in final phase of ritualization (see photo (http://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/megillat_ritualisation.jpg): on 27th January the students at a school in London light six candles representing the “six millions” ).

The Holocaust has become a religion

It is a fact that for Jews, any discussions about the reality of the Holocaust are completely irrelevant. In their minds, the revisionists are heretics, that is to say people who “have no share in the Hereafter” [27]. Note also that in its final exhortation, Megillat Hashoah commands the believer: “Do not try to understand. Learn to live without an answer “. [28] Nothing has changed since 1979 and the famous “do not ask how, technically, such a mass murder was possible. It was technically possible since it took place.” [29]. That is why the revisionist argument have never made a slightest impression on the followers of the “Holocaust”. Because they oppose their religion.

The original including references: Les juifs ajoutent un livre sur la Shoah à la Bible (http://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/megillat.htm)

Longbowman

02-15-2014, 01:05 PM

1) utter rubbish. I have never heard of such a thing.
2) has no bearing on the veracity of the events.

microrobert

02-15-2014, 02:37 PM

I have never heard of such a thing.

It is never too late to learn.

Six Million – Beware of summary analyzes

Vincent Reynouard, june 2012

https://shoabloger.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/six-million-beware-of-summary-analyzes/

The main argument against the revisionist is to say: “If the Jews were not killed, what became of them in 1945?”

Those who use it, usually point to maps published in popular articles or textbooks, where for each country, one can read two numbers: the Jews counted before 1939 and those who remained in 1945 (see this type of document (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/carte_victimes_juives.jpg)). To this, the revisionists reply that a Jew absent after the war had not necessarily been murdered and was perhaps not even dead.

Emigration, displacement or change of identity can explain many “disappearances “…

80% of Burmese Jews “disappeared” in 1945

An obvious case is that of Burma, occupied by the Japanese between 1940 and 1945. At the beginning of the century, there were about 2500 in the country. Knowing that no crisis had occurred, which could lead to a high rate of emigration, we can assume that in 1939 the population was close to that number. However, after 1945, only 500 Jews were still living in Burma. Should we conclude that the 2000 missing (80% of total) were murdered? No. Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif tells us that at the beginning of the occupation, the Jews migrated to India and that “Only 500 returned to Burma after the war” [See: Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif , No. 367, October 26, 2007, p. 13, col. C. : Click here (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/birmanie_juifs.jpg)].

Evidence of a significant decline in a population after a war is not necessarily evidence of an organized massacre.

Poland: Many “survivors” remain unknown

The case of Poland is even more interesting. In another issue Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif tells explains:

In 1945, the number of Jews in Poland was less than 280,000. Most chose to emigrate to Israel or the United States immediately after the war or during anti-Semitic campaigns of the Communist regime in the 50s or even in 1968 [1].

This estimate is consistent with the number of Jews who came from Poland to Israel between 1945 and 1956: 278 000 [See Israël, histoire d’un peuple (Les Éditions Nationale, Jérusalem, 1958 ), map reproduced at the beginning of Chapter 2: click here (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/carte_retour_juifs.jpg).]. However, the authors continue:
But many [Polish] Jews who successfully survived by concealing their identities have decided not to change anything in order to protect their children. It was often the case in part-Catholic part-Jewish families or of those who were atheists. The new Polish Jews also want other Jews [...] to stop considering their country as a vast cemetery: “The other Jews must see that there is a reality of Jewish life in Poland,” says Anna Janot-Szymanska, whose sister runs the Jewish Cultural Centre. [2]

This text shows that:

1) In “numerous Jews” of Poland who survived, even after 1945 were no longer officially Jews. All those have therefore “disappeared”, but so far not died. They were right there, alive and well, in Poland;

2) The number was sufficient to maintain a “reality of Jewish life” in Poland.

It would be interesting to know how numerous were these “survivors.”

No serious investigation

I would add that if today fanatics of “Memory” speak of 280,000 Jews in Poland after the war, it is not on the basis of serious statistical research, but because a number very close to it arrived in Israel between 1945 and 1956.

In his work, R. Hilberg devotes nearly four pages to those “murdered” in Poland. [3] But he cites no studies that have been carried out in the field after the war. To reach 3 million people, he relies first of all on the famous “Report Korherr” (German statistician who, in 1942, had been commissioned by Himmler to study the movements of Jewish population in occupied Europe) starting from the principle that, in this internal document, the term “evacuation” was a euphemism for “extermination.”

Then, on the basis of reports of activities found in the archives of the RSHA, he invokes the “open-air shootings” which would account, according to him, for 600,000 victims (p. 1040). 600,000 victims shot and buried, it leaves traces. At least they should … But R. Hilberg does not care. Not one of his references mentions a report of excavations held after the war.

He concludes that in Poland “the number of survivors and deaths from causes unrelated to the Holocaust could not exceed 400,000″ (p. 1041). Subsequently, it was easy to say: 278 000 emigrants after 1945, that means 280,000 survivors (+ 120 000 deaths for reasons other than the “Holocaust”) …

References:

[1] See Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif , No. 370, January 25, 2008, p. 13, col. B.
[2] See Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif , No. 370, January 25, 2008, p. 13, col. B and C.
[3] See The destruction of the European Jews (ed. Fayard, 1988), p. From 1037 to 1041.

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL TEXT IN FRENCH: (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/six_millions_23vi12.htm)

« 6 millions » ? Méfions-nous des analyses sommaires (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/six_millions_23vi12.htm)

Longbowman

02-15-2014, 03:41 PM

It is never too late to learn.

I meant, I've never heard of such a scroll. It doesn't appear to actually exist. Even if it did, who cares? If you want to be stuck in the past, be stuck in the past.

Six Million – Beware of summary analyzes

Vincent Reynouard, june 2012

https://shoabloger.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/six-million-beware-of-summary-analyzes/

The main argument against the revisionist is to say: “If the Jews were not killed, what became of them in 1945?”

Those who use it, usually point to maps published in popular articles or textbooks, where for each country, one can read two numbers: the Jews counted before 1939 and those who remained in 1945 (see this type of document (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/carte_victimes_juives.jpg)). To this, the revisionists reply that a Jew absent after the war had not necessarily been murdered and was perhaps not even dead.

Emigration, displacement or change of identity can explain many “disappearances “…

80% of Burmese Jews “disappeared” in 1945

An obvious case is that of Burma, occupied by the Japanese between 1940 and 1945. At the beginning of the century, there were about 2500 in the country. Knowing that no crisis had occurred, which could lead to a high rate of emigration, we can assume that in 1939 the population was close to that number. However, after 1945, only 500 Jews were still living in Burma. Should we conclude that the 2000 missing (80% of total) were murdered? No. Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif tells us that at the beginning of the occupation, the Jews migrated to India and that “Only 500 returned to Burma after the war” [See: Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif , No. 367, October 26, 2007, p. 13, col. C. : Click here (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/birmanie_juifs.jpg)].

Evidence of a significant decline in a population after a war is not necessarily evidence of an organized massacre.

So first, you've copy and pasted this 'argument' 100 times. Second, this isn't an argument. If anything it proves you're wrong, because these individuals weren't added to the tally.

Poland: Many “survivors” remain unknown

The case of Poland is even more interesting. In another issue Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif tells explains:

In 1945, the number of Jews in Poland was less than 280,000. Most chose to emigrate to Israel or the United States immediately after the war or during anti-Semitic campaigns of the Communist regime in the 50s or even in 1968 [1].

This estimate is consistent with the number of Jews who came from Poland to Israel between 1945 and 1956: 278 000 [See Israël, histoire d’un peuple (Les Éditions Nationale, Jérusalem, 1958 ), map reproduced at the beginning of Chapter 2: click here (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/carte_retour_juifs.jpg).]. However, the authors continue:
But many [Polish] Jews who successfully survived by concealing their identities have decided not to change anything in order to protect their children. It was often the case in part-Catholic part-Jewish families or of those who were atheists. The new Polish Jews also want other Jews [...] to stop considering their country as a vast cemetery: “The other Jews must see that there is a reality of Jewish life in Poland,” says Anna Janot-Szymanska, whose sister runs the Jewish Cultural Centre. [2]

This text shows that:

1) In “numerous Jews” of Poland who survived, even after 1945 were no longer officially Jews. All those have therefore “disappeared”, but so far not died. They were right there, alive and well, in Poland;

2) The number was sufficient to maintain a “reality of Jewish life” in Poland.

It would be interesting to know how numerous were these “survivors.”

No serious investigation

I would add that if today fanatics of “Memory” speak of 280,000 Jews in Poland after the war, it is not on the basis of serious statistical research, but because a number very close to it arrived in Israel between 1945 and 1956.

In his work, R. Hilberg devotes nearly four pages to those “murdered” in Poland. [3] But he cites no studies that have been carried out in the field after the war. To reach 3 million people, he relies first of all on the famous “Report Korherr” (German statistician who, in 1942, had been commissioned by Himmler to study the movements of Jewish population in occupied Europe) starting from the principle that, in this internal document, the term “evacuation” was a euphemism for “extermination.”

Then, on the basis of reports of activities found in the archives of the RSHA, he invokes the “open-air shootings” which would account, according to him, for 600,000 victims (p. 1040). 600,000 victims shot and buried, it leaves traces. At least they should … But R. Hilberg does not care. Not one of his references mentions a report of excavations held after the war.

He concludes that in Poland “the number of survivors and deaths from causes unrelated to the Holocaust could not exceed 400,000″ (p. 1041). Subsequently, it was easy to say: 278 000 emigrants after 1945, that means 280,000 survivors (+ 120 000 deaths for reasons other than the “Holocaust”) …

References:

[1] See Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif , No. 370, January 25, 2008, p. 13, col. B.
[2] See Fax de Jérusalem et du monde juif , No. 370, January 25, 2008, p. 13, col. B and C.
[3] See The destruction of the European Jews (ed. Fayard, 1988), p. From 1037 to 1041.

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL TEXT IN FRENCH: (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/six_millions_23vi12.htm)

« 6 millions » ? Méfions-nous des analyses sommaires (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/six_millions_23vi12.htm)

Indeed, around 300,000 Jews returned to Poland, from a prewar population of around 3.3 million, as demonstrated by censuses, the Wannsee conference statistics, etcetera. Yad Vashem has a list of around 2.9 million dead ones. The Polish government, which lost 6 million people in total (including Jews and non-Jews) had not counted 3 million non-Jews as Jews before the war: do not be ridiculous. It is evident from even Nazi propaganda pictures and statistics that millions of Jews were put in ghettoes and listed on registers and put on record. The idea that out of 3,300,000 Jews, only 700,000 were actually Jews (and the rest were what, exactly?) is stupid. But so are you, so no surprise there.

microrobert

02-15-2014, 08:09 PM

the Wannsee conference statistics, etcetera.

Again and again the same argument for the holocaust: the Wannsee Conference ...

Doesn’t the report of the Berlin-Wannsee conference prove the existence of a plan to exterminate the Jews?

Not in the least. Undated, unsigned, bearing no stamp of any bureau, this piece has the look of a draft report telling of a meeting held on January 20, 1942 in the Berlin suburbs.

Nowhere is it a question of killing or exterminating the Jews but, for those Jews able to work, of evacuation eastwards for them to be put to work, whilst those aged 65 and over were to be sent to Theresienstadt, in Bohemia.

There appears several times in this document the expression “final solution of the Jewish question in Europe”, which is sometimes shortened to “final solution of the Jewish question” or to “final solution” or even, quite simply, to “solution”.

The original phrase, in its complete form, was “a final territorial solution of the Jewish question” (understood: the Jewish question in Europe).

A certain Martin Luther, under-secretary of State in the German foreign office, employed that phrase on page 4 of his famous memorandum of August 21, 1942. That adjective “territorial” means that the question will have to be settled by finding the Jews a territory of their own; any other solution would be inadequate. For if, for example, after the war, the Jews became free again in Europe, they would soon, as history shows, manage to regain their power and influence there; whereas, in the event of a transfer for good somewhere outside Europe, those who’d survived the hardships entailed would make up an elite capable of forming the germinal cell of a Jewish renewal. It’s silly to talk here of an extermination project.

Even Yehuda Bauer, professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, ended up, in 1992, denouncing “the silly story of Wannsee”. He stated: “The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at”.

ROBERT FAURISSON: Interview with Professor Robert Faurisson at the Guest House of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Islamic Republic of Iran (http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/2006/12/interview-with-professor-robert_1322.html)

The Victories of Revisionism (continued) (http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2011/09/victories-of-revisionism-continued.html)

Robert FAURISSON

Facts exclude the reality of a destruction of European Jewry

Curiously, the authors who presume to uphold the case for the existence of a Third Reich policy to exterminate the Jews fail to explain a considerable number of facts which, had there been such a policy, would be incomprehensible. As A. R. Butz wrote, “The simplest valid reason for being sceptical about the extermination claim is also the simplest conceivable reason: at the end of the war they were still there” (The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, p. 10). In 1945, at war’s end, the number of Jewish “survivors” or “miraculous” Jewish survivors was staggering.

So many “miraculous survivors” could not be a miracle but rather the manifestation of a natural fact. Each survivor who dares to testify that people of his or her category were systematically slaughtered is making, by the sheer fact of still being alive, a self-refutation argument: he or she is “living proof” that the statement is absurd. Still in 1997, fifty-two years after the war, the official number of Jewish survivors was assessed, by some, at 834,000 and by others at 960,000 (“Holocaust Survivors” by Adina Mishkoff, Administrative Assistant, Amcha, Jerusalem, August 13, 1997; these figures were provided by the office of the Israeli Prime Minister).

According to an estimate by the Swedish statistician Carl Nordling, to whom I submitted the Israeli government assessments, if those figures are rounded to an average of 900,000 then it will be reasonable to conclude that in 1945 the number of survivors slightly exceeded three million. Even today, the “survivors’” organisations abound under the most varied names; they bring together former Jewish résistants, Jewish forced labourers, Jews who were fugitives or living undercover during the war as well as former “children of Auschwitz”; this last group includes Jewish children born in that camp or interned there from infancy with their parents.

Auschwitz, like many other camps, was equipped with hospital buildings or infirmaries where Jews, like Elie Wiesel himself, had access to care.

is stupid. But so are you, so no surprise there.

:rolleyes:

A devastating--and in places, hilarious--deconstruction of "yet one more false witness" to the legendary gas chambers of Auschwitz by courageous French revisionist Vincent Reynouard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMKF1v2I2r8

Longbowman

02-15-2014, 11:23 PM

None of the things your post listed were true. Well, they were - in that Nordling did say this and that, but what he said wasn't true.

If I may alter the conversation. What do you say to the idea 2 million+ Gypsies and 3 million+ Slavs perished in the camps/shooting fields, too?

microrobert

02-16-2014, 05:50 AM

What do you say to the idea 2 million+ Gypsies and 3 million+ Slavs perished in the camps/shooting fields, too?

About the alleged extermination of the Gypsies let me quote the French jewish anti-revisionist historian Denis Peschanski:

"There was no systematic extermination of the Gypsies." (P.379)

"Until recently the figures used by historiography had no scientific basis and no archival research justified the conclusions drawn." (p. 376)

He admits that the 18,000 Gypsies who died in Auschwitz (out of the 23,000 who had been sent there) "died, mostly from typhus or tuberculosis" (p. 378).

(Denis Peschanski, La France des camps, 2002)

HOLOCAUST OR HOAX?

THE ACCUSATION

Holocaust beliefs since 1945

Compared to the Holocaust, all other "Nazi crimes" pale into insignificance!

"The 3 million non-Jewish Poles"

"The 500,000 gypsies"

Medical experiments on human beings

Euthanasia

The Holocaust as a religion

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/hoh/index.html#Contents

Longbowman

02-16-2014, 04:09 PM

So, no proof, just quoting another denialist. Cool.

microrobert

02-16-2014, 05:33 PM

just quoting another denialist. Cool.

Yes :cool:

About evidence

Could you answer to this question:

Show us one single document that, in your view, proves that Hitler or any other National Socialist ordered and planned the physical extermination of the Jews

Quoted from: Robert FAURISSON The Victories of Revisionism

So, no proof,

You have proofs ... good for you and now you can answer to this challenge

An interresting challenge:

http://www.phdnm.org/

My challenge to the historians, to the professors of History ...

***

5 000 € will be offered to whoever will demonstrate me to the term of a free, loyal and courteous debate that nazis gas chambers are not a propaganda myth.

Longbowman

02-16-2014, 05:40 PM

http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar26.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-12.html

But I know what you're going to say: these sources are wrong. Or lies. Or misinformed. Or more accurately you will just copy and paste some article that doesn't actually have much to do with anything, just that it was written by or pertains to your hero, Robert Faurisson, or some other Frenchman who bent over backwards for the Nazis and sucked Hitler's cock.

Because your 'challenge' isn't a challenge. It's something idiots say when they think they're being dramatic. Like when evangelists offer money if someone can prove evolution. It doesn't matter how well evolution or the gas chambers or the fact the earth is flat can be proved, your mind is closed, much as you pretend it's open.

Enjoy your life as a fringe-theorist. May you find in rejection, isolation and hatred the same pleasure most humans find in acceptance, togetherness and joy.

microrobert

02-17-2014, 06:09 AM

Because your 'challenge' isn't a challenge.

I see :rolleyes:

"One proof... one single proof"

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/1979/02/one-proof-one-single-proof.html

(...)
In a long declaration, thirty-four French historians have recently let us know that it is of course "natural" to ask oneself all sorts of questions about the Second World War, but that, nonetheless, "there is not, there cannot be, any debate on the existence of the gas chambers".

(...)
For four years I have expressed the wish to debate publicly, with anyone whom the other side may care to name, “the problem of the gas chambers”. I am answered with court writs. But the witchcraft trials, like the witch-hunts, never proved anything.

I know of a way to move the debate forward. Instead of repeating ad nauseam that there exists an overabundance of evidence to prove the existence of the "gas chambers" (let us be reminded of what this supposed overabundance was worth for the former Reich's — mythical — "gas chambers"), I suggest, in order to begin at the beginning, that my adversaries provide me with a proof, one single clear-cut proof of the actual existence of a "gas chamber", of a single "gas chamber".

Then we shall examine that "proof" together, in public.

R. Faurisson,

February 26, 1979

***

An Orthodox Historian Finally Acknowledges: There is No Evidence for Nazi Gas Chambers

(...)
Cumbersome Gas Chambers

It is obvious that the “Nazi gas chambers” are ever more embarrassing for the historians or other writers who make the case for the reality of an extermination of the Jews. As early as 1984 Pierre Vidal-Naquet warned those of his friends who already felt tempted to abandon the “gas chambers” that to do so would be “to surrender in open country” (“Le Secret partagé”, Le Nouvel Observateur, September 21, 1984, p. 80). In 1987 a periodical hostile to revisionism published on its letters page a piece by two French-Jewish teachers, Ida Zajdel and Marc Ascione, suggesting that the Nazis had faked their confessions and only mentioned gas chambers in order to plant “a ‘time bomb’ against the Jews, an instrument of diversion and – why not? – of blackmail”.

There would be many other examples to mention; that would take too long. I shall be content here with citing just three recent ones: that of Elie Wiesel (in 1994), that of the Dutch professor of Jewish-Polish origin Michel Korzec (in 1995), and finally, that of the Jewish-American historian Daniel Jonah Goldhagen (in 1996):

– In 1994, Wiesel wrote in his memoirs All Rivers Run to the Sea: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination”, which, in plain English, means: “Let’s not try to see, or even imagine, a Nazi gas chamber”; and subsequent developments showed the same Wiesel’s complete scepticism with regard to alleged testimonies on the subject;

– In 1995 Korzec declared that too much emphasis had been laid on the gas chambers and the number of gassing victims. With dialectic contortions worthy of a cabalist, he went on to argue that it was the Germans, and not the Jews, who were responsible for that error; according to him, far more Germans than the few who were assigned with just the gassings participated in the “murder” of Jews nearly everywhere in Europe;

– In his 1996 study Hitler’s Willing Executioners, an exceedingly anti-German book, Daniel J. Goldhagen wrote: “Gassing was really epiphenomenal to the Germans’ slaughter of Jews [8]”; in an interview with a Vienna weekly he stated: “For me the industrialized annihilation of the Jews is not the central question in explaining the Holocaust... The gas chambers are a symbol. But it is absurd to believe that the Holocaust would not have taken place without the gas chambers.”

The gas chambers are, in 1996, no longer anything but a symbol!

(...)
For now, the situation of the two French academics may be described as follows:

Jacques BAYNAC:

“THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, YET I BELIEVE.”

Robert FAURISSON:

“THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, THEREFORE I REFUSE TO BELIEVE.”

For the first: freedom of expression.

For the second: a possible prison sentence of one month to one year and/or a fine of from 2,000 to 300,000 French francs [i.e. from about €2,000 to over €45,000] and other penalties as well.

Is it not a scholar’s duty to refuse to believe, whatever it may cost him?

September 2-3, 1996

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/2010/10/orthodox-historian-finally-acknowledges.html

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 12:31 PM

So I take it you didn't read my links. Typical hypocrite.

Stop copy-and-pasting things.

microrobert

02-17-2014, 03:03 PM

None of the things your post listed were true.

So I take it you didn't read my links. Typical hypocrite.

Great answers ... :rolleyes:

This is the real question:

Why don't the believers dare to answer a simple challenge?

They evade the challenge with excuses.

Why?

Don't they trust their proofs :rolleyes:

As said the Jewish-American historian Arno Mayer: “Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable"

Maybe, is it the reason of their refusals to answer the challenge ...

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 03:05 PM

Look, it's obvious you don't actually speak English, or you'd have understood that I posted links to responses and you haven't clicked them. Either that or you're a worse troll than you are an objective appraiser of historical truths.

All you do is copy and paste texts from a variety of languages, only one of which (French) you actually speak, and expect us to be impressed.

I hope you aren't the intellectual anti-Semite to whom Portusaus refers.

Methusalem

02-17-2014, 03:10 PM

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 03:17 PM

Well you should post the exact quotes from those links. Would be better for a fluent discussion as microrobert did.

There's no point. The link is just to a step-by-step refutation of Microbert's various 'points.' I dislike copy-and-pasting arguments in general, but if I post a link, it's to an article, not a chapter with a paragraph you have to find. The entire article is relevant. It is however in English so I doubt Microrobert would be able to read it all. However, his not having clicked them is not my fault. I don't care if you think the conversation would be more fluid; I firstly disagree, because there'd be this huge block of text that I clearly didn't write and secondly, I point out the conversation would be more fluid if Microrobert could actually speak English or Spanish or were at least willing to respond to me properly instead of finding the six words he understands from my post and going 'haha but there's also this neonazi thing [completely unrelated] why haven't scientists proved me wrong?'

Look, Microbert is just copy-and-pasting stuff he probably doesn't even understand (I mean that both in the sense he clearly doesn't speak anything except French and a possibly little English, and also that he doesn't understand the actual arguments that are used) and frankly the fact that I've even bothered to stop by and point out the copy-and-pasting the same arguments many times over in different threads, sometimes in different language, with the same cut-and-pasted disjointed responses to challenges doesn't count as argumentation is more time than he deserves.

Methusalem

02-17-2014, 03:21 PM

There's no point. The link is just to a step-by-step refutation of Microbert's various 'points.' I dislike copy-and-pasting arguments in general, but if I post a link, it's to an article, not a chapter with a paragraph you have to find. The entire article is relevant. It is however in English so I doubt Microrobert would be able to read it all. However, his not having clicked them is not my fault. I don't care if you think the conversation would be more fluid; I firstly disagree, because there'd be this huge block of text that I clearly didn't write and secondly, I point out the conversation would be more fluid if Microrobert could actually speak English or Spanish or were at least willing to respond to me properly instead of finding the six words he understands from my post and going 'haha but there's also this neonazi thing [completely unrelated] why haven't scientists proved me wrong?'

Look, Microbert is just copy-and-pasting stuff he probably doesn't even understand (I mean that both in the sense he clearly doesn't speak anything except French and a possibly little English, and also that he doesn't understand the actual arguments that are used) and frankly the fact that I've even bothered to stop by and point out the copy-and-pasting the same arguments many times over in different threads, sometimes in different language, with the same cut-and-pasted disjointed responses to challenges doesn't count as argumentation is more time than he deserves.

http://www.nocturnar.com/forum/attachments/humor/59677d1349702842-ok-meme-face_okay.jpg

microrobert

02-17-2014, 03:24 PM

All you do is copy and paste texts from a variety of languages, only one of which (French) you actually speak, and expect us to be impressed.

I don't post to impress somebody only to inform.

I hope you aren't the intellectual anti-Semite to whom Portusaus refers.

anti-Semite :rolleyes:

Always the same accusations: Anti-Semite, Nazi ... and I forgot the famous:jewhater :rolleyes:

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 03:25 PM

I don't post to impress somebody only to inform.

anti-Semite :rolleyes:

Always the same accusations: Anti-Semite, Nazi ... and I forgot the famous:jewhater :rolleyes:

Dude you are a self-confessed anti-semite and Nazi-supporter.

Unless I am mistaken. Have you changed your mind? Do you like Jews now?

Once again, responding to six words and missing out the main crux of my post.

microrobert

02-17-2014, 04:46 PM

Dude you are a self-confessed anti-semite and Nazi-supporter.

:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW3a1bw5XlE

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 05:07 PM

:rolleyes:

OK, I think it's obvious to everyone that Microrobert cannot speak English, or any language but French.

Either that or he's a trollish hypocrite. Most likely both.

'Bert, if you aren't an anti-Semite, that is to say, you have no problem with Jews, please say so.

microrobert

02-17-2014, 05:31 PM

Either that or he's a trollish hypocrite. Most likely both.

anti-semite, nazi supporter, hypocrite ... repeating yourselves, aren't you?

If you need more words, I recommend you this dictionnary :thumb001:

http://pmcdn.priceminister.com/photo/Collectif-Micro-Robert-Dictionnaire-Du-Francais-Primordial-Livre-725902877_ML.jpg

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 05:33 PM

anti-semite, nazi supporter, hypocrite ... repeating yourselves, aren't you?

If you need more words, I recommend you this dictionnary :thumb001:

http://pmcdn.priceminister.com/photo/Collectif-Micro-Robert-Dictionnaire-Du-Francais-Primordial-Livre-725902877_ML.jpg

You aren't denying it.

Of course, you don't actually address most of my points, so who knows.

The problem with saying 'holocaust denialism isn't necessarily connected to anti-semitism/anti-ziganism etc' is that I've not heard of an individual who was both a holocaust denier and a friend of the Jews/Gypsies etc.

microrobert

02-17-2014, 05:55 PM

The problem with saying 'holocaust denialism isn't necessarily connected to anti-semitism/anti-ziganism etc' is that I've not heard of an individual who was both a holocaust denier and a friend of the Jews/Gypsies etc.

One of the friends of the professor FAURISSON is the professor BUTZ who is jewish ...

Can a jew be a revisionist?

The answer is yes: Arno J. Mayer

In the United States a Jewish Professor Takes the Revisionist Path

Arno J. Mayer, was born in 1926 into a Jewish family in Luxembourg.
(...)
It seems that in 1982 the American professor infuriated an Israeli colleague during an international conference at the Sorbonne presided over by François Furet and Raymond Aron (29 June to 2 July). At that time Mayer undoubtedly had the courage to express some reservations about the dogma of the Holocaust and the gas chambers.

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/1989/09/in-united-states-jewish-professor-takes.html

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 05:57 PM

One of the friends of the professor FAURISSON is the professor BUTZ who is jewish ...

Can a jew be a revisionist?

The answer is yes: Arno J. Mayer

In the United States a Jewish Professor Takes the Revisionist Path

Arno J. Mayer, was born in 1926 into a Jewish family in Luxembourg.
(...)
It seems that in 1982 the American professor infuriated an Israeli colleague during an international conference at the Sorbonne presided over by François Furet and Raymond Aron (29 June to 2 July). At that time Mayer undoubtedly had the courage to express some reservations about the dogma of the Holocaust and the gas chambers.

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/1989/09/in-united-states-jewish-professor-takes.html

1) You're still not denying it about yourself.
2) Butz is a communist, a traitor, an idiot, and a dickhead, but not a holocaust denier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arno_J._Mayer

microrobert

02-17-2014, 06:01 PM

Butz is a communist, a traitor, an idiot, and a dickhead, but not a holocaust denier.

Watch and learn ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KywkZqghU8w

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 06:03 PM

Watch and learn ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KywkZqghU8w

I highly doubt that was made by him.

In fact I highly doubt it was made by any historian. Even the facts about the Roman Empire are wrong.

Some idiot's affixed his name to it.

But it doesn't matter. Even if Butz were a holocaust denier, he'd be wrong.

microrobert

02-17-2014, 06:05 PM

I highly doubt that was made by him.

In fact I highly doubt it was made by any historian. Even the facts about the Roman Empire are wrong.

Some idiot's affixed his name to it.

But it doesn't matter. Even if Butz were a holocaust denier, he'd be wrong.

Arthur R. Butz

Dr. Arthur R. Butz was born and raised in New York City. He received his Bachelor of Science and Master of Science degrees in Electrical Engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In 1965 he received his doctorate in Control Sciences from the University of Minnesota. In 1966 he joined the faculty of Northwestern University (Evanston, Illinois), where he is now Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences. Dr. Butz is the author of numerous technical papers. Since 1980 he has been a member of the Editorial Advisory Committee of The Journal of Historical Review, published by the Institute for Historical Review.

Dr. Butz is the author of The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: The case against the presumed extermination of European Jewry, first published in 1976, and a number of minor revisionist papers. For those writings he has been vilified and ostracized ever since.

http://codoh.com/library/authors/1470

Longbowman

02-17-2014, 06:09 PM

Arthur R. Butz

Dr. Arthur R. Butz was born and raised in New York City. He received his Bachelor of Science and Master of Science degrees in Electrical Engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In 1965 he received his doctorate in Control Sciences from the University of Minnesota. In 1966 he joined the faculty of Northwestern University (Evanston, Illinois), where he is now Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences. Dr. Butz is the author of numerous technical papers. Since 1980 he has been a member of the Editorial Advisory Committee of The Journal of Historical Review, published by the Institute for Historical Review.

Dr. Butz is the author of The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: The case against the presumed extermination of European Jewry, first published in 1976, and a number of minor revisionist papers. For those writings he has been vilified and ostracized ever since.

http://codoh.com/library/authors/1470

Interesting.

He's still not a historian though. So I was right about that part :)

Butz is an associate professor of electrical engineering at Northwestern University. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hoax_of_the_Twentieth_Century)

microrobert

02-18-2014, 05:24 AM

Interesting.

He's still not a historian though. So I was right about that part :)

Butz is an associate professor of electrical engineering at Northwestern University. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hoax_of_the_Twentieth_Century)

His works have no value because ... he isn't a professor of History :rolleyes2:

Is the Professor Faurisson a History teacher?

Have their works less value?

The answer is NO!

You proved nothing here

Longbowman

02-18-2014, 01:15 PM

His works have no value because ... he isn't a professor of History :rolleyes2:

Is the Professor Faurisson a History teacher?

Have their works less value?

The answer is NO!

You proved nothing here

Actually, yeah. If Simon Sebag-Montefiore wrote a book on Electrical Engineering I wouldn't read it. They're not trained.

I proved a lot, but you didn't bother to read my sources, presumably because your English isn't good enough.

microrobert

02-18-2014, 01:45 PM

Actually, yeah. If Simon Sebag-Montefiore wrote a book on Electrical Engineering I wouldn't read it. They're not trained.

I proved a lot, but you didn't bother to read my sources, presumably because your English isn't good enough.

I understand very well this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q5vozYhZnU

Feral

02-18-2014, 02:00 PM

Longbowman

02-18-2014, 02:03 PM

I understand very well this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q5vozYhZnU

But not what I've written. So there's no point arguing with you. I post refutations and you're unable to understand them.

This video is rife with inaccuracies; please read the links I posted.

Longbowman

02-18-2014, 02:05 PM

¡Pss! ¡Pss! ¡Juirabichoscarajo! Acá se habla aspañol tanto como se deba. :rolleyes:

Por mi parte, los judíos como tales los juzgo al igual que el resto del mundo, por quienes son y no por lo que son. No los odio pero no tengo porqué amarlos, como dijo un músico argentino. Ahora, por otro lado, los judacas (xD) me caen para el orto por ser tan quejicas, victimistas, imponentes -en su despectivo sentido- y para colmo desubicados -etnográficamente hablando.

El no puede ni hablar ni entender el idioma; lo que ha hecho, lo que siempre hace, es copiar un texto escribido por alguien otro; si buscas su historia en este sitio, encontraras que el postea las mismas cosas de nuevo y de nuevo y de nuevo.

microrobert

02-18-2014, 04:43 PM

But not what I've written. So there's no point arguing with you. I post refutations and you're unable to understand them.

This video is rife with inaccuracies; please read the links I posted.

I understand well.

You prefer the official version of the "holo".

But ... As said Ernst Zundel: There was no Hitler order, no plan, no budget for the operation of killing the jews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-qaNV7EPIM

Longbowman

02-18-2014, 04:58 PM

I understand well.

You prefer the official version of the "holo".

But ... As said Ernst Zundel: There was no Hitler order, no plan, no budget for the operation of killing the jews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-qaNV7EPIM

Then read the links I posted.

Zundel is not an authority. He's a retard like you. If my buddy posted a video saying 'the moon is made of cheese' and I posted a thread saying 'the moon is made of cheese, guys' and posted the video of my retarded friend saying 'the moon is made of cheese' as proof, people would laugh at me.

As they laugh at you.

microrobert

02-18-2014, 05:23 PM

Zundel is not an authority. He's a retard like you.

Authority ... like the USHMM perhaps

But ...

A Red-Letter Day for Revisionism, April 22, 1993 / The US Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Challenge

The question of the existence or non-existence of the Nazi gas chambers is one of considerable historical importance. If the gas chambers existed, they provide evidence that the Germans attempted to physically exterminate the Jews; on the other hand, if they didn't exist, we have no evidence of such an extermination attempt. Pierre Vidal-Naquet, a leading French anti-Revisionist, is under no illusion. To those tempted to give up the controversy over the gas chambers, he has warned that to jettison the gas chambers "is to surrender in open country" (Nouvel Observateur, Sept. 21, 1984, p. 80.) One can only agree. The gas chambers are not – contrary to what Jean-Marie Le Pen once remarked – a mere footnote ("point de détail") of Second World War history. Thus, those who contest their existence are subject to judicial sanction in France and some other countries.

Nor could the monumental US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, which was formally dedicated on April 22, 1993, allow itself to ignore the Nazi gas chambers. The question remained: What kind of physical representation of this terrifying weapon would the new Museum provide?

We now know the answer, and it is dismaying: For lack of anything better this opulent museum – which has cost American taxpayers and donors from the American Jewish community more than $150 million – has been reduced to showing us, as its only model of a homicidal gas chamber, a casting of a gas chamber at the former Majdanek camp in Poland: a gas chamber for … delousing. As I shall explain, even Jean-Claude Pressac, author of a 564-page work published in 1989 in cooperation with the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation of New York, was obliged to acknowledge that this room was merely a delousing chamber.

This is nothing new. As early as 1945 the Americans were portraying four delousing (disinfestation) chambers in the Dachau camp (Germany) as homicidal gas chambers.

Those in charge of the new Holocaust Museum in Washington have resorted to so grave an imposture, I believe, because they are forced to do so: they are not able to offer visitors a physical representation, in any form whatsoever, of one of the chambers, we are told incessantly, the Germans used to murder swarms of victims.

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/1993/05/a-red-letter-day-for-revisionism-april.html

Longbowman

02-18-2014, 05:27 PM

Please stop posting things other people have said and expect me to be impressed.

microrobert

02-18-2014, 08:30 PM

Please stop posting things other people have said and expect me to be impressed.

And I think interesting to quote researchers as professor Faurisson.

You don't agree with his conclusions about the gas chambers ... that's your problem.

Many peoples in France are very concerned by his works, and not only his friends ...

And he is always in the news :thumb001:

On February 20th, begin his trial for his participation at the conference: (in 2006),"Review of the Holocaust : Global Vision"

On March 4th, another trial for the video: Robert Faurisson : "A Man" (http://holocauste.com/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPb0ok-NQY

Longbowman

02-18-2014, 08:35 PM

1) learn English. And Spanish.

2) Many criminals are 'always in the news.'

3) Former Professor Faurisson was a professor of French literature. All relevant experts agree with me, as do the vast majority of non-relevant experts. If you 'choose not to believe them' that's your problem.

microrobert

02-19-2014, 12:06 PM

3) Former Professor Faurisson was a professor of French literature. All relevant experts agree with me, as do [I]the vast majority of non-relevant experts.

Since when the historical research is only reserved to the historians?

About the professor and his work:

http://codoh.com/library/categories/1104

After years of private research and study, Dr. Faurisson first made public his skeptical views about the Holocaust extermination story in two items published in December 1978 and January 1979 in the influential Paris daily Le Monde.

In the archives of the Auschwitz State Museum in Poland , Faurisson discovered the technical and architectural drawings of the Auschwitz morgues, the crematories and other installations. He is the first person to publicize these important documents, and to point out their significance.

Since 1978, Dr. Faurisson has presented his critical view of the Holocaust extermination story in numerous articles, in many interviews, in several books, and in stunning April 1979 debate on a Swiss television network with prominent defenders of the "exterminationist" view. Many of his scholarly articles have been published in English in The Journal of Historical Review. A four-volume collection of many of his writings, Écrits Révisionnistes (1974-1998), was published in 1999.

Faurisson played an important role in both the 1985 and 1988 “Holocaust trials” in Toronto of Ernst Zundel. His role in those legal battles went far beyond his testimony on the stand as a witness. Especially during the 1985 trial, he spent hundreds of hours -- often working all day and very late into the night -- preparing questions used by defense attorney Doug Christie in his devastating interrogations of Raul Hilberg, Rudolf Vrba and other prosecution witnesses.

A cogent summary of his skeptical view of the “Holocaust” is his lengthy article, “Impact and Future of Holocaust Revisionism,” published in The Journal of Historical Review, Jan.-Feb. 2000. (It is posted online at http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n1p-2_Faurisson.html)

Not bad for a professor of French literature :thumb001:

Longbowman

02-19-2014, 01:28 PM

No, it's terrible for a professor of French literature. Because it's bullcrap. How come all the people who believe what you do aren't actually historians, just retards who wrote books? If I, as a history and languages student, wrote a book about nuclear technology, you would not use it. You only use this guy's work because you're a backwards, stupid, holocaust denier, who can't speak English (and thus, the French-language work of this guy works in your favour).

microrobert

02-19-2014, 05:06 PM

No, it's terrible for a professor of French literature. Because it's bullcrap...

You want a historian ...

Yehuda Bauer is a Czechoslovak-born Israeli historian and scholar of the Holocaust. He is a professor of Holocaust Studies at the Avraham Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

He is thus a historian !

From Chapter 8 of Holocaust or Hoax?:

The Wannsee Protocol

For decades, it was claimed that the extermination of the Jews was decided at the Wannsee Conference in Berlin of 20 January 1942. Anyone who reads the (alleged) protocol of that conference, will discover that it contains no mention of any physical extermination of the Jews, nothing about gas chambers, and speaks only of "evacution" and "resettlement". The orthodox historians, as usual, offer the lazy excuse that these are code words for extermination.
(...)
Even the exterminationists are distancing themselves further and further from the Wannsee protocol. In the Canadian Jewish News of 20 January 1992, Israeli Holocaust Specialist Yehuda Bauer, calls the belief that the conference arrived at any decision to exterminate the Jews, a "silly story".

According to him, the whole caste of historians just blabbered a silly story for decades, like parrots. The "silly story" also appears in all schoolbooks.

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres2/JGhoax.pdf

Longbowman

02-19-2014, 05:57 PM

microrobert

02-19-2014, 06:27 PM

Yes! Except Bauer never wrote any such thing and has in fact been awarded the Israel Prize for Holocaust Studies by the Israeli Government. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehuda_Bauer) Typical Holocaust denier; fabricate or take a quote out of context.

Nazi Scheme Not Born at Wannsee, Israeli Holocaust Scholar Claims

January 23, 1992

LONDON (Jan. 22)

An Israeli Holocaust scholar has debunked the Wannsee Conference, at which top Nazi officials are said to have gathered at a villa in a Berlin suburb in 1942 to draw the blueprints of the “Final Solution.”

According to Professor Yehuda Bauer of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Wannsee was a meeting but “hardly a conference,” and “little of what was said there was executed in detail.”

Bauer addressed the opening session of an international conference held here to mark the 50th anniversary of the decision to carry out the “Final Solution.” But it was not made at Wannsee, the Czech-born scholar said.

“The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at. Wannsee was but a stage in the unfolding of the process of mass murder,” he said.

Bauer also said fears that memories of the Holocaust are receding with time are unfounded.

“Whether presented authentically or inauthentically, with empathy and understanding or as monumental kitsch, the Holocaust has become a ruling symbol of our culture.

“Hardly a month passes without a new TV production, a new film, a new drama, a number of new books of prose or poetry dealing with the subject,” the professor said.

Source:

http://www.jta.org/1992/01/23/archive/nazi-scheme-not-born-at-wannsee-israeli-holocaust-scholar-claims

Longbowman

02-19-2014, 06:31 PM

I haven't read his books, and neither have you, but regardless of what he thought of the importance of Wannsee (and we must remember the Einsatzgruppen had been active for a year or two beforehand) he certainly knew the Holocaust existed.

microrobert

02-20-2014, 05:09 AM

(and we must remember the Einsatzgruppen had been active for a year or two beforehand)

The Einsatzgruppen and the Holocaust

(...)
The authorities maintaining the Auschwitz camp indeed ultimately responded by revising the numbers downward. Suddenly the four million murdered dropped to an official figure of a little over a million. This is where the overall Holocaust story underwent another major evolution. In this latest twist, the Six Million figure somehow was retained - relating to a sort of mystic symbolism that seemingly has to be retained at all costs - and a shifting of how the figure was arrived at occurred. Suddenly the 3 million Jews killed within that 6 million figure, perished 'in the east' with little explanation and no statistical backing.

While the Einsatzgruppen or ‘action groups’ (or ‘squads’) has grown in its significance the typical estimate of victims of these groups are between 1.3 and 2.2 million. As the story continues to shift and evolve it appears that the missing “victims” may yet be attributed to the Einsatzgruppen or even the German army.
(...)
How many Jews were actually available to be killed, i.e. how many fell into the hands of the Einsatzgruppen? Revisionist researcher Dr. Walter Sanning in his path-breaking The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry demonstrated that the six million figure was impossible, that literally millions of European Jews had escaped the Nazis through legal emigration and through evacuation eastwards with the Red Army as it retreated before the invading German forces. We may never know how many 'Eastern' Jews escaped this way but the numbers are generally agreed upon to figure in the millions. The Germans simply did not have anywhere near the numbers of Jews in their control that the official Holocaust story presumes.

What was the time frame of the killings? From June 1941 through summer 1944, about three years, in much of which whole regions were not in Nazi hands or had been lost. How many Jews could have been killed and how quickly? Rhodes in his Masters of Death, a study of the Einsatzgruppen, claims that these squads usually employed small groups of 4-8 men working in shifts with rifles or pistols and killing thousands or tens of thousands of Jews at a time. Interestingly, he estimates a grand total of about 1.5 million Jews killed by the Einsatzgruppen. Rhodes also suggests that the Einsatzgruppen were so overwhelmed psychologically from allegedly killing 1.5 million Jews that SS-Reichsführer Himmler ultimately decided to shift responsibility for the extermination of the Jews, from squad killings to a more 'industrial' and efficient approach using gas chambers at Auschwitz and elsewhere. Rhodes is one of those court historians who, when it comes to the official version of the Holocaust, accepts all 'eyewitness' accounts, evinces no skepticism whatever, allows all possibilities, asks no inconvenient questions, and breaks no taboos.

http://codoh.com/library/document/3103

The Einsatzgruppen carrying out their activities in the USSR had the job of overseeing the army’s rear, particularly due to the presence of snipers and partisans who succeeded in killing numerous German soldiers and perpetrating sabotage.

Never did the Einsatzgruppen receive an order to execute Jews as such. Jews could be shot for acts of either terrorism or sabotage or, as hostages, in retaliation either for such acts or for some similar reason.

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/2011/09/victories-of-revisionism-continued.html

Longbowman

02-20-2014, 06:23 PM

some bullshit I don't understand that I copied and pasted

microrobert

02-20-2014, 08:12 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddVeWgQf4o

Josef Kleinmann, a Czech Jew who changed his name after the war and moved to the United States of America, returns to the Czech Republic in 1993 to search for his family.

There, he finds out his entire family is regarded as deceased. But to his surprise, Josef himself is listed as dead.

Many Jews, entire families even, changed their names after the war and moved to Israel, the United States of America, Canada, England, Argentina, Australia and South Africa.

They are all currently "unaccounted for" and listed as "dead" according to the documents.

Longbowman

02-20-2014, 08:24 PM

Also

02-20-2014, 09:02 PM

Microrobert, did you take part in the Tehran Holocaust Conference?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Cx5YSp-ghS8/TG7iI-ZJ7nI/AAAAAAAAHTk/qJ4WdaiTdo4/s1600/Holocaust+Conference+In+Tehran.bmp

microrobert

02-21-2014, 04:52 AM

Microrobert, did you take part in the Tehran Holocaust Conference?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Cx5YSp-ghS8/TG7iI-ZJ7nI/AAAAAAAAHTk/qJ4WdaiTdo4/s1600/Holocaust+Conference+In+Tehran.bmp

No

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZMQ4-EiUzc8/Ty2e2cNeIJI/AAAAAAAACmo/HETuaXnq4n8/s400/MahmoudRF.jpg