Devolution.

[arcticwolf]

There is technological progress, but as a specie are humans evolving or devolving mentally, as a whole?

Don't chimp out here, you know who you are. :D

So what do you think.

[arcticwolf]

Poll added.

[Acquisitor]

how can there be a devolution when nearly everyone has instant access to nearly the entire database of all possible knowledge ? That's completely unprecedented in history.

I'm quite confident about the internet generation's future, despite of all the wasted time spent on moronic sites like facebook.

[Mjod]

Specialization and trade have allowed humans to continually expand and perform on new levels throughout history allowing more of our human capital to be spent on academics, personal fulfillment, etc., rather than simply surviving. I believe we have always had the same mental capacity, but as we develop tools, our minds open up a little more toward that capacity. However, I would say the early modern humans used more mental capacity (inventing, surviving) than a person today, who works a dead-end job and sits on the internet all day while at home (never inventing, developing, challenging their mind.) So, we have and will always have the same mental capacity; some people choose to develop with it and others are along for the ride.

[Thora]

That is total nonsense... in no way is either mental or physical retardation devolution... it is caused by flaws in the DNA and nothing more.

[Furnace]

Devolving, intelligent people don't have children, dumb people seem to procreate a lot.

[arcticwolf]

That is total nonsense... in no way is either mental or physical retardation devolution... it is caused by flaws in the DNA and nothing more.

That's not really what we are discussing here.

[arcticwolf]

Devolving, intelligent people don't have children, dumb people seem to procreate a lot.

Excellent point.

[Neanderthal]

Physically and mentally we have been down hill for a couple decades now. Man of yesterday was stronger and smarter, and I don't mean the 'smart' type who knows who to use a Tablet PC, but the smart type who is smart enough to control his emotions, has everything in order and takes care of things when needed, most 'men' nowadays don't know how to change a goddamn light bulb and they consider themselves 'alpha' because they like to play smooth with ladies, when in reality this is one of the most infantile behaviors for a guy.

Some people can argue today we have better food, but it's absolutely nor true at all, most people are not made to eat crops, maize, wheat, etc. Others could say we have more access to knowledge, but be honest, how many here read a book in their spare time? now imagine SWAG kids with low IQ, they barely can read, same as health, we have gyms ok, but how many people visit them?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It's not a couple decades, it's 20k years that people's brains have shrunk and they have grown fatter and more gracile.

Basically people today are mainly stuck as caterpillars and never become beautiful neanderthal butterfly they were meant to be.

The fatness and the brain shrinking are not theory, they have been observed in archaeology from the very beginning. Neanderthals had about 1500 ml skull. Cromag 1 skull is about 1800 ml. Some south african skulls from 20k years ago may well top 2300 ml.

This has been observed in all domestic animals, too. Basically when there is easy living the least common denominator is the winner and outbreeds the ones who have a longer life cycle. So instead of kids maturing at 17 years old who have large brain cases, we have kids who reach puberty at 8 years old in the inner city and have much tinier brains.

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-shrinking

It's funny because most scientist try to pass it off like it's a good thing and brains are just more efficient and stuff, man. But there is no 'reorganization' so much as prefrontal area and neocortex has shrunk a lot in last 20k years. I guess that's why 99% of population lives paycheck to paycheck and goes into debt to buy useless junk from china that breaks six months later.

[arcticwolf]

Physically and mentally we have been down hill for a couple decades now. Man of yesterday was stronger and smarter, and I don't mean the 'smart' type who knows who to use a Tablet PC, but the smart type who is smart enough to control his emotions, has everything in order and takes care of things when needed, most 'men' nowadays don't know how to change a goddamn light bulb and they consider themselves 'alpha' because they like to play smooth with ladies, when in reality this is one of the most infantile behaviors for a guy.

Some people can argue today we have better food, but it's absolutely nor true at all, most people are not made to eat crops, maize, wheat, etc. Others could say we have more access to knowledge, but be honest, how many here read a book in their spare time? now imagine SWAG kids with low IQ, they barely can read, same as health, we have gyms ok, but how many people visit them?


I agree with you, men are weaker, more emotionally unstable, not as smart. I see this trend as well, and it is getting worse.

[Astronaut]

We are extremely dependent on technology nowadays,so much so that most of us would die without it.Because of this unhealthy dependence we are devolving.

[Acquisitor]

Physically and mentally we have been down hill for a couple decades now. Man of yesterday was stronger and smarter, and I don't mean the 'smart' type who knows who to use a Tablet PC, but the smart type who is smart enough to control his emotions, has everything in order and takes care of things when needed, most 'men' nowadays don't know how to change a goddamn light bulb and they consider themselves 'alpha' because they like to play smooth with ladies, when in reality this is one of the most infantile behaviors for a guy.

Some people can argue today we have better food, but it's absolutely nor true at all, most people are not made to eat crops, maize, wheat, etc. Others could say we have more access to knowledge, but be honest, how many here read a book in their spare time? now imagine SWAG kids with low IQ, they barely can read, same as health, we have gyms ok, but how many people visit them?

most people I know who live in this considered to be civilized country can change a light bulb, do read books (I read them on my phone or pc), and many prefer not to eat garbage. So I don't necessarily agree with this.

the biggest danger in this country is that the lower layers of the society are as you describe, they might be growing in numbers due to different reasons like higher reproduction and immigration from third world or eastern europe, but overall they are a minority.

[Acquisitor]

We are extremely dependent on technology nowadays,so much so that most of us would die without it.Because of this unhealthy dependence we are devolving.

not necessarily true, yes, most modern men and women can not grow their own food but outsource it to others, but for the rest I don't get what you mean. Who would die and what without certain technology ?

[Smaug]

When a problem comes around. Ooh you've gotta whip it.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I agree with you, men are weaker, more emotionally unstable, not as smart. I see this trend as well, and it is getting worse.

I also worry some of this could be due to environmental toxins. Usually we never figure out stuff is harmful until years after the fact. Not to mention it's a bit suspicious that we 'discover' pesticides and chemicals are harmfull right after they go off patent.

[Proctor]

Yes and No, depends what skills we are talking about.

[arcticwolf]

I also worry some of this could be due to environmental toxins. Usually we never figure out stuff is harmful until years after the fact. Not to mention it's a bit suspicious that we 'discover' pesticides and chemicals are harmfull right after they go off patent.


Things like that make you wonder.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

And of course the big push today is "everyone is exactly the same!!!". Ha, no. All these millions of years of evolution, and it's being thrown out to embrace devolution into idiocy and moral decline.

[arcticwolf]

Yes and No, depends what skills we are talking about.

Take a stab at it, your take on it is as valid as any.

[arcticwolf]

And of course the big push today is "everyone is exactly the same!!!". Ha, no. All these millions of years of evolution, and it's being thrown out to embrace devolution into idiocy and moral decline.

This is exceptionally good point.

[Astronaut]

not necessarily true, yes, most modern men and women can not grow their own food but outsource it to others, but for the rest I don't get what you mean. Who would die and what without certain technology ?

lets say you bought a new car and kept it in the garage and leave alone driving it you never even touched it or cleaned it and instead travel using public transport.So what happens? The car starts rusting and micro organism starts devouring it.

Similarly human brain and body is an amazing machine.Excessive dependency on technology simply starts "rusting" them.

Just do an experiment,do all calculations starting from the basic to complex one using a calculator for 3-4 months and then try doing calculation using your brain.I can say with 100% surety that you wont even be able to do a basic calculation.

[Acquisitor]

lets say you bought a new car and kept it in the garage and leave alone driving it you never even touched it or cleaned it and instead travel using public transport.So what happens? The car starts rusting and micro organism starts devouring it.

Similarly human brain and body is an amazing machine.Excessive dependency on technology simply starts "rusting" them.


I think it would take thousands of years, if not more to "rust" the brain like that on a genetic level. And even then, future generations who would end up without all the technology would adapt quickly imo.

your point is quite speculative.


Just do an experiment,do all calculations starting from the basic to complex one using a calculator for 3-4 months and then try doing calculation using your brain.I can say with 100% surety that you wont even be able to do a basic calculation.

nope, I have few talents in this life, but one of them is being exceptionally good with numbers, I cant imagine myself losing that ability even if I was forced to use a calculator even for very simple calculations.

[arcticwolf]

lets say you bought a new car and kept it in the garage and leave alone driving it you never even touched it or cleaned it and instead travel using public transport.So what happens? The car starts rusting and micro organism starts devouring it.

Similarly human brain and body is an amazing machine.Excessive dependency on technology simply starts "rusting" them.

Just do an experiment,do all calculations starting from the basic to complex one using a calculator for 3-4 months and then try doing calculation using your brain.I can say with 100% surety that you wont even be able to do a basic calculation.

That is certainly the case. Interesting, how the basic skills need to be honed all the time to keep the mind sharp.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I think it would take thousands of years, if not more to "rust" the brain like that on a genetic level. And even then, future generations who would end up without all the technology would adapt quickly imo.

your point is quite speculative.



nope, I have few talents in this life, but one of them is being exceptionally good with numbers, I cant imagine myself losing that ability even if I was forced to use a calculator even for very simple calculations.

It's not so much rusting as the people who are smart get outbred by dumb ones very quickly, when they are given the ability to do so. When times are harder the positive selection of genes for brain size becomes much more important.

[Acquisitor]

It's not so much rusting as the people who are smart get outbred by dumb ones very quickly, when they are given the ability to do so. When times are harder the positive selection of genes for brain size becomes much more important.

I personally know a challenged couple, which is way below average on the social ladder, yet they have an exceptionally bright son who will very likely end up higher than they are in life.

my point is: dumbfucks can give life to something wonderful.

also I believe that during this financial crisis which all of us have either noticed or personally experienced, people got smarter on average, since life has forced them to. I have seen people around me who I have always considered trash do amazing things to survive in this difficult environment, by those things I mean opening companies, losing their trashiness, starting to use their brain much more than they used to.

[Xenomorph]

There is no such thing as devolution; our bodies simply change due to the pressures around them.

As to the brain, it is shrinking but some scientists believe that it is because it's becoming more efficient and does not need the extra size. Also, technology does not necessarily make us dumber. First of all, we need our intelligence to built the technology; "devolving" species don't make nano-computers and map the human genome. Second, our technology is making us use our brains in ways we didn't before. Just fifty years ago, most people probably couldn't conceive of something like the internet. Our ways of interacting with each other have increased exponentially, unlocking new ways of viewing ourselves and the world. I do agree that people should learn basic life skills, but in a number of ways, I think we're actually getting smarter.

[arcticwolf]

It's not so much rusting as the people who are smart get outbred by dumb ones very quickly, when they are given the ability to do so. When times are harder the positive selection of genes for brain size becomes much more important.

You make very good points my friend.

[Neanderthal]

I think the future gonna be something like Nordic aliens vs Grays for humanity. Grays will probably be the people who evolved that way accustomed to an artificial life: using their brains much would make them big headed brachycephals but not using their bodies would make them look like skinny big headed monsters. The gray skin will probably be due space travel and to synthesize D vitamin. On the other hand, Nordic aliens probably would be people following eugenics, physical fitness and a more earth-friendly green technology.

So chose your side.

Grey:
http://www.remoteviewed.com/old_sessions/newalien3.jpg

Nordic:
http://wanderingamericantravelblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/nordics.jpg

[michelle]

You can't devolve, you can only adapt to your environment. The skill set we needed 10,000 years ago isn't the same, Einstein wouldn't have made it 10,000 years ago, but early man would have a hard time in today's world as well. The only problem I see with this question is that we've been so successful using our brains that we've created technology that eliminates many evolutionary pressures. But then again, as we all know, it isn't how MANY children you have that makes you fit, it how WELL your offspring do when they're off on their own. 'Stupid' people may reproduce quite a lot, but how many survive? How many are successfully fit?

[Acquisitor]

It's not so much rusting as the people who are smart get outbred by dumb ones very quickly, when they are given the ability to do so. When times are harder the positive selection of genes for brain size becomes much more important.

another argument against this theory which I generally agree with btw.

My native country USSR had stable and more or less financially successful 70-80's followed by horrible 90's where food was scarce and earning money was very hard.

who prevailed in the 90's and who had troubles adapting on average ? the trash had much more success in the 90's and emerged as a clear winner, while intelligencia had serious troubles adapting to this extreme crisis.

in difficult times brute force and lack of morals can be much better than high intelligence which is generally accompanied with higher morals as well.

[Ultra]

You can't devolve, you can only adapt to your environment. The skill set we needed 10,000 years ago isn't the same, Einstein wouldn't have made it 10,000 years ago, but early man would have a hard time in today's world as well. The only problem I see with this question is that we've been so successful using our brains that we've created technology that eliminates many evolutionary pressures. But then again, as we all know, it isn't how MANY children you have that makes you fit, it how WELL your offspring do when they're off on their own. 'Stupid' people may reproduce quite a lot, but how many survive? How many are successfully fit?
Ehm, like almost everyone? With there not being any lack of food, clothes and housing and all sorts of welfare programs in modern times and life overall being very simple very few of them are going to die..

[Liac]

It's quite possible, actually devolution would be nothing but reversed backward evolution.

[michelle]

Ehm, like almost everyone? With there not being any lack of food, clothes and housing and all sorts of welfare programs in modern times and life overall being very simple very few of them are going to die..

I don't think that's true. Look at how many die in stupid accidents, are locked up for life doing stupid things, how many live in developing countries without access to food, clothing, and medicine. Etc., etc.

[random777]

Well since most of population growth is happening in black africa and most of them trying to immigrate all around world so......

[Jägerstaffel]

You can't devolve, you can only adapt to your environment.

This is the truth of the matter. "Devolution" doesn't exist. That isn't how evolution works. It doesn't go in a direction from one thing to "better", it goes in the direction of the best "fit" (as in survival of the fittest).

[Prisoner Of Ice]

This is the truth of the matter. "Devolution" doesn't exist. That isn't how evolution works. It doesn't go in a direction from one thing to "better", it goes in the direction of the best "fit" (as in survival of the fittest).

Big brain has a fitness cost. If you have two janitors and one has 150 IQ and one 100, the one with 100 IQ will be more survivable in the long run. IE he can just ditch the longer growth time and start boning at 12 and make twice as many kids. That is exactly what's happening.

[Caismeachd]

flynn effect

getting smarter

[Prisoner Of Ice]

flynn effect

getting smarter

Nope. Flynn effect was always BS anyway, but it reversed itself over 30 years ago.

[McCauley]

I think the future gonna be something like Nordic aliens vs Grays for humanity. Grays will probably be the people who evolved that way accustomed to an artificial life: using their brains much would make them big headed brachycephals but not using their bodies would make them look like skinny big headed monsters. The gray skin will probably be due space travel and to synthesize D vitamin. On the other hand, Nordic aliens probably would be people following eugenics, physical fitness and a more earth-friendly green technology.

So chose your side.

Grey:
http://www.remoteviewed.com/old_sessions/newalien3.jpg

Nordic:
http://wanderingamericantravelblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/nordics.jpg


I choose Nordic.

[Neanderthal]

I choose Nordic.

Wise choice bro. You never disappoint me. :thumb001:

[Incal]

Devolving, intelligent people don't have children, dumb people seem to procreate a lot.

True sadly.

[Peikko]

White trash has too many children, while intellectuals focus in their career. That's devolution IMO.

[Caismeachd]

White trash has too many children, while intellectuals focus in their career. That's devolution IMO.

Yeah that is true to a certain extent but it also gives an opportunity for intelligent people to rise up as well I suppose. It makes intelligence more valuable but I guess it can get lost in the shuffle with all the stupid people. Intelligent people generally focus on career and have children in their mid 30s up even into their 40's while white trash types are already grandparents at age 40.

[Acquisitor]

reminds me of this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8&noredirect=1

[random777]

Yeah that is true to a certain extent but it also gives an opportunity for intelligent people to rise up as well I suppose. It makes intelligence more valuable but I guess it can get lost in the shuffle with all the stupid people. Intelligent people generally focus on career and have children in their mid 30s up even into their 40's while white trash types are already grandparents at age 40.
This is why women should be not allowed to attend university, there should be different schools for men and women and they should teach only homemaking to women.

[Dandelion]

This is why women should be not allowed to attend university, there should be different schools for men and women and they should teach only homemaking to women.

The 1950s aren't called 'the good old times' for nothing.

[Pjeter Pan]

I agree with you, men are weaker, more emotionally unstable, not as smart. I see this trend as well, and it is getting worse.
You can thank liberals and feminists for that. I mean look at metrosexuals
:D

[Peikko]

This is why women should be not allowed to attend university, there should be different schools for men and women and they should teach only homemaking to women.
What are you, arab or something?

[random777]

What are you, arab or something?
Nope I am a finn, what are you, a Libtard or something?

[Peikko]

Nope I am a finn, what are you, a Libtard or something?
You're promoting muslim ideology. Fuck off.

[random777]

You're promoting muslim ideology. Fuck off.
Not at all, I don`t really care what muslims do, but allowing women to be equal ----> very low fertility and devolution.

Besides women are more happy when they don`t need to take too much responsibilities, traditional gender-roles etc...

But you can think whatever u want, bitch.

[Peikko]

Not at all, I don`t really care what muslims do, but allowing women to be equal ----> very low fertility and devolution.

Besides women are more happy when they don`t need to take too much responsibilities, traditional gender-roles etc...

But you can think whatever u want, bitch.
Trash like you is devolution. Get educated.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I choose Nordic.

Yeah, no kidding. People don't realize evolution is not always good thing. I'd much rather have eugenics to keep humans human.

And the direction we are going to, really is towards greys. I have to wonder if they are time travelers from the future. Really hope not....

[Neanderthal]

Yeah, no kidding. People don't realize evolution is not always good thing. I'd much rather have eugenics to keep humans human.

And the direction we are going to, really is towards greys. I have to wonder if they are time travelers from the future. Really hope not....

I would not discard that possibility. Grays and Nordics/Anunnaki could be two branches of the same species that followed different paths.

[rhiannon]

When a problem comes around. Ooh you've gotta whip it.

I swear when I read this post at first I read you saying ooh you gotta whip it out:lmao

[Smaug]

I swear when I read this post at first I read you saying ooh you gotta whip it out:lmao

Nah, it's just te lyrics of a song by Devo(lution). I thought everybody would get the reference, but no one did.

[The King, I am]

Not at all, I don`t really care what muslims do, but allowing women to be equal ----> very low fertility and devolution.

Besides women are more happy when they don`t need to take too much responsibilities, traditional gender-roles etc...

But you can think whatever u want, bitch.

Oh hi SouthAsian

[random777]

Oh hi SouthAsian
Hi little faggot, how are you?

[Balmung]

There's only one solution, barbarian revolution. We shouldve never let the Romans into our culture in the first place! It turned men into betas.

[B01AB20]

There's only one solution, barbarian revolution. We shouldve never let the Romans into our culture in the first place! It turned men into betas.

it was the other way around brilliant barbarian boy. :rolleyes2:

the barbarians were who adopted all the greco-roman culture and got rid of their own culture because they saw it as barbarian and inferior.

the romans subjugated and civilized many peoples by force, and other people like barbarians simply copied and imitated all the roman stuff out of their free will.

I can blame the romans for all the evil the did to me :cool:, but you can only put the blame on you, barbarian.

[The King, I am]

Hi little faggot, how are you?

Doing good, how about you?

[Dandelion]

it was the other way around brilliant barbarian boy. :rolleyes2:

the barbarians were who adopted all the greco-roman culture and got rid of their own culture because they saw it as barbarian and inferior.

the romans subjugated and civilized many peoples by force, and other people like barbarians simply copied and imitated all the roman stuff out of their free will.

I can blame the romans for all the evil the did to me :cool:, but you can only put the blame on you, barbarian.

Moreover, converting to the a religion of a people where males squat-pee and with a leader who force-married women after he killed their husband neither helps.

[B01AB20]

Moreover, converting to the a religion of a people where males squat-pee and with a leader who force-married women after he killed their husband neither helps.

ehmmm... what are you talking about exactly?, about barbarians, about christians or about jews?, or about reptilians maybe ;)

[B01AB20]

..

[Dandelion]

ehmmm... what are you talking about exactly?, about barbarians, about christians or about jews?, or about reptilians maybe ;)

The person you responded to has converted to Islam, that's why. And then he complains that our Western society is 'too femininised', yet he prefers to live in a Western country nonetheless.

[B01AB20]

The person you responded to has converted to Islam, that's why. And then he complains that our Western society is 'too femininised', yet he prefers to live in a Western country nonetheless.

barbarian, nordicist and... and islamic. :picard1:

only in america.

[Dandelion]

barbarian, nordicists and... and islamic. :picard1:


And atheist as well. My brain just exploded. ;)

[Peikko]

barbarian, nordicist and... and islamic. :picard1:

only in america.
lol what the hell!?! :D

[B01AB20]

lol what the hell!?! :D

allah-snackbar man.

[B01AB20]

There is technological progress, but as a specie are humans evolving or devolving mentally, as a whole?

Don't chimp out here, you know who you are. :D

So what do you think.

btw, I think the word you were thinking of was 'involution' or 'regression', at least that's what the dictionary says is the english word for spanish 'involución'.

'devolutión' means 'devolución'... what has to do 'devolution' with what you're suggesting if may aI ask?.

Well my english sucks and maybe I'm wrong, who knows.

[de Burgh II]

In all fairness, I think devolution can be possible. I can see that almost everything in life has its own ups and downs in life that can make us have some underlying mental bias to skew our view of reality, but nevertheless back to the question at hand. The prevalence of technology has both its pros and cons in general. On the pro side, it makes it more convenient for us to access knowledge, help develop more methods to progress us as a species as a whole, etc. Whereas the very convenience of technology made us so accustomed to making our lives easier to the point that it can more or less take away our independent thinking as a whole.

*Spoilers long rant ahead*:P

I say this because the mob mentality thinking is probably one of the most self destructive mentalities out there. It can be manipulated by elitists in forms of the media. Just take any topic that it presents under the following; race related, wars, sporting events, self destructive puppets (e.g. Justin Bieber) etc. play with our emotions one way or another for either a positive or negative reaction.

The same could be said about fads or "cult-like cultures" that come about with each generation. Take the ghetto rap culture for example. It first started out as a cultural identity for black culture. It grew in popularity in some areas in the world and shaped future generations for the worse because of its indoctrinating effects. Instead of endeavoring for a decent education, it shapes people to aspire to be thugs in society. Only reinforcing misogyny, crime (lets face it, gangsters are nothing but spineless morons who flock in groups that prey upon people who try to make an honest, decent living), "tough guy" image, ignorance, butchering of a language with slang, and turning a country into a third world shithole. The is why I say think as an individual, don't fall prey to being a brainwashed, ticking time bomb with any sense of individualism whatsoever. That is why we have logic to firmly plant our feet on the ground. :P

In all, think as an individual and live your life by your very convictions until the end. Life goes in accordance to how you subjectively view your life and how you live it is all that it comes down to. Lets face it, in the end, life can be very short in some respects before you realize it. Life is neither "good" nor "bad", its neutral. Its how you live your life is what it boils down to. If a person lives their life unfulfilled and empty, chances are the person will die with a sense of regret. Whereas a person who lived their life through acceptance and content will die peacefully.

Thats just my two cents for now... :P