View Full Version : Ottomans depictions not very caucasian / white looking at all.
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 07:36 PM
Apart from the Ottoman sultans portraits from the last few centuries the rest from the 1250 to 1700 were all imagined depictions from the artists that drew the last Ottoman rulers. The only surviving depictions of early Ottoman rulers are those small drawings. These modern portraits were drawn around the time when millions of Balkan/Caucasus slaves were brought to Turkey and even some of the Ottomans sultans were half greek or half albanian.
http://www.turkeytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/osmanlisultanlari.jpg
It could be that they borrowed influence from other countries but still.... to draw themselves looking like eastern people is weird unless that they were originally eastern looking during the early Ottoman.
For example here is Osman I one of the old founders of Ottoman empire
http://ukrmap.su/program2009/wh7/21/01.jpg
Sultan Selim one the great early leaders
http://www.akdn.org/museum/assets/3/129.jpg
http://www.art-prints-on-demand.com/kunst/called_nigari_reis_haydar/portrait_sultan_selim_1524_74_hi.jpg
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 07:41 PM
Here more painting of Mehmed. In this shows his Ottoman subjects have bigger eyes ( slightly slanted ) with longer nose but look at Mehmed himself..... very slanty eyes and flat nose
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Mehmet_I_honoraries_miniature.jpg
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 07:43 PM
They look white to me lassie
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 07:45 PM
They look white to me lassie
This painting can even pass for a Vietnamese sheesh.
http://ukrmap.su/program2009/wh7/21/01.jpg
Where as this one is the imagined depiction
http://www.nndb.com/people/418/000113079/mehmed-i.jpg
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 07:51 PM
This painting can even pass for a Vietnamese sheesh.
http://ukrmap.su/program2009/wh7/21/01.jpg
Where as this one is the imagined depiction
http://www.nndb.com/people/418/000113079/mehmed-i.jpg
They are clearly caucasian, look at the nose/head shape it's just the eyes and that was probably the style back then :/
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 07:53 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PfM1HwBowEU/UCgBHlome0I/AAAAAAAACOM/cjEbuOWhMY8/s1600/nightcrawlers.jpg
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 07:55 PM
They are clearly caucasian, look at the nose/head shape it's just the eyes and that was probably the style back then :/
The bottom one is very caucasian. The top is NO WAY in hell caucasian
He looks very much closer to this. His nose and head fits just like this guy.
http://beyondasiaphilia.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/the_warlords.jpg
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 07:57 PM
The bottom one is very caucasian. The top is NO WAY in hell caucasian
He looks very much closer to this. His nose and head fits just like this guy.
http://beyondasiaphilia.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/the_warlords.jpg
Ho does not
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 08:01 PM
Ho does not
Of course he does. Show me one modern caucasian that look like this? That kind of face is too weird to be a Caucasian.
http://ukrmap.su/program2009/wh7/21/01.jpg
I think he looks like these
http://www.mapability.com/blogs/travel/images/2008-07-01/08AS2750.jpg
http://image.toutlecine.com/photos/l/e/s/les-seigneurs-de-la-guerre-ci-ma-the-warlords-28-01-2009-13-12-2007-16-g.jpg
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 08:02 PM
Of course he does. Show me one modern caucasian that look like this? That kind of face is too weird to be a Caucasian.
http://ukrmap.su/program2009/wh7/21/01.jpg
I think he looks like these
http://www.mapability.com/blogs/travel/images/2008-07-01/08AS2750.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jbf_LPW_lo0/TshnMHLqcDI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/xPpcMjZITDU/s1600/Takeshi%2BKaneshiro%2Bwarlords.png
It's a painting not a picture and he's nose is clearly caucasian
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 08:11 PM
It's a painting not a picture and he's nose is clearly caucasian
You can find those noses in many non-Caucasian people so it's not strictly caucasian and it doesn't look that caucasian.
I mean even Jackie Chan have a caucasian looking nose
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/11/3/1288804348761/Jackie-Chan-006.jpg
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 08:13 PM
You can find those noses in many non-Caucasian people so it's not strictly caucasian and it doesn't look that caucasian.
I mean even Jackie Chan have a caucasian looking nose
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/11/3/1288804348761/Jackie-Chan-006.jpg
All the pictures of the Ottomans depict them with caucasian noses
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 08:16 PM
All the pictures of the Ottomans depict them with caucasian noses
What do you mean by Caucasian noses? many are shaped differently. That nose doesn't look that Caucasian and besides all Kazakhs/Kyrgyz who are predominately Mongoloid have mostly caucasian nose shapes anyway.
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 08:18 PM
What do you mean by Caucasian noses? many are shaped differently, That nose doesn't look that Caucasian and besides all Kazakhs/Kyrgyz who are predominately Mongoloid have mostly caucasian nose shapes anyway.
It doesn't matter, they all clearly have caucasian noses, all of them, not 90% but 100% of them
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 08:25 PM
It doesn't matter, they all clearly have caucasian noses, all of them, not 90% but 100% of them
What do you mean they all have clearly Caucasian noses? You can barely see their nose shapes in those paintings.
I don't see what's so caucasian about this guy's nose and he's a sultan also his eyes don't look caucasian either.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ktq4utFMcmM/ULJMYosTCBI/AAAAAAAAFpk/NgAWKFwQt-8/s1600/Sultan-II.-Selim.png
This northern viet have more caucasian nose shape than he does
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Johnny_Nguyen_22072007_BKKIFF.jpg
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 08:29 PM
What do you mean they all have clearly Caucasian noses? You can barely see their nose shapes in those paintings.
I don't see what's so caucasian about this guy's nose and he's a sultan also his eyes don't look caucasian either.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ktq4utFMcmM/ULJMYosTCBI/AAAAAAAAFpk/NgAWKFwQt-8/s1600/Sultan-II.-Selim.png
This northern viet have more caucasian nose shape than he does
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Johnny_Nguyen_22072007_BKKIFF.jpg
Are you blind, can't you see the difference? :picard1:
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 08:30 PM
Are you blind, can't you see the difference? :picard1:
NO you're blind one. The Sultans nose is small and hooked, his nostrils is big and sticks out where as the Viet nose is straight and long.
The King, I am
02-13-2014, 08:32 PM
NO you're blind one. The Sultans nose is small and hooked, his nostrils is big and sticks out where as the Viet nose is straight and long.
No trust me if you can't see the difference then your clearly partially blind
it's threads like these that make people doubt your British, only afrocentrists and such say these kind of things and make so little sense
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 08:40 PM
No trust me if you can't see the difference then your clearly partially blind
it's threads like these that make people doubt your British, only afrocentrists and such say these kind of things and make so little sense
Oh please show me the difference :rolleyes: You're talking bullshit sense. I know a real and typical Caucasian nose when I see one.
This is a real caucasian nose
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/EmperorSuleiman.jpg/220px-EmperorSuleiman.jpg
Where as those noses drawn in the sultant miniatures don't look entirely Caucasian. They exist but are not so common. A typical caucasian nose tend to be produding in all angles. The first sultants nose is not produding enough and the second sultan is not long enough more importantly their eyes look very eastern mongoloid combined with uncommon nose shapes
Shah-Jehan
02-13-2014, 08:56 PM
Your such an idiot, the style utilized for those portraits are based on Persian miniatures and Persian miniatures generally depict characters with small eyes similarly how the style of anime is to show people with large eyes.
ButlerKing
02-13-2014, 09:19 PM
Your such an idiot, the style utilized for those portraits are based on Persian miniatures and Persian miniatures generally depict characters with small eyes similarly how the style of anime is to show people with large eyes.
This is a Persian miniature and he has big eyes. Any small eye persian miniature is most likely from Turkic, there is still a lot of Turkic mongoloid/Turanid tribes in Iran
http://users.telenet.be/orientaal/hunt.jpg
Shah-Jehan
02-13-2014, 09:21 PM
This is a Persian miniature and he has big eyes. Any small eye persian miniature is most likely from Turkic, there is still a lot of Turkic mongoloid/Turanid tribes in Iran
http://users.telenet.be/orientaal/hunt.jpg
He has the eyes, the same size as most of the Sultans you posted.
ButlerKing
02-14-2014, 04:29 AM
He has the eyes, the same size as most of the Sultans you posted.
Nowhere close. The miniatures all have smaller slanted eyes some have bigger but still slanted eyes where as this persian eyes is typical caucasian.
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