Classify Iraqi Qizilbash

[StonyArabia]

http://s29.postimg.org/dvdwto7jr/Jasim_Mohammed_Jaafar_071230_A_8161_S_003_0_YK8_I. jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Yehiel]

Irano-Nordid

[Shah-Jehan]

Nord-Iranid.

[StonyArabia]

Irano-Nordid

Makes sense because the Qizilbash were Persian, Kurds and Lurs who adopted a Turkic language. Many of them identify as Persians. There is few of them that identify as Turkoman but have heavy Persian culture. Some of the Iraqi Qizilbash are called Shabak and eventually returned to Iranic roots. They even claim descent from the forces of Shah Ismail I.

[Yehiel]

Makes sense because the Qizilbash were Persian, Kurds and Lurs who adopted a Turkic language. Many of them identify as Persians. There is few of them that identify as Turkoman but have heavy Persian culture. Some of the Iraqi Qizilbash are called Shabak and eventually returned to Iranic roots. They even claim descent from the forces of Shah Ismail I.

I wonder where is it that Kurds get this irano-nordid look from? the Caucasus? Surely they ancient persians didnt look like that.

[StonyArabia]

I wonder where is it that Kurds get this irano-nordid look from? the Caucasus? Surely they ancient persians didnt look like that.

From the original Indo-European speakers most likely.

[Yehiel]

From the original Indo-European speakers most likely.

I would have pictured them differently.

[StonyArabia]

I would have pictured them differently.

The original Indo-Europeans were from Eastern Europe, the rest of the population are Indo-Europeanized. However from to time these Indo-Europeanized people, show the past of their ancestors from time to time.

[Yehiel]

The original Indo-Europeans were from Eastern Europe, the rest of the population are Indo-Europeanized. However from to time these Indo-Europeanized people, show the past of their ancestors from time to time.

In that case it would make sense, I thought the indo-europeans would have originated in Turkey somewhere.

[StonyArabia]

In that case it would make sense, I thought the indo-europeans would have originated in Turkey somewhere.

No, most indicate that the proto-Indo-European homeland is the Ukraine and the Russian steppe.

[Yehiel]

No, most indicate that the proto-Indo-European homeland is the Ukraine and the Russian steppe.

Interesting, genetically do you think Indo-Europeans left their mark on populations in India, Iran, etc?

[StonyArabia]

Interesting, genetically do you think Indo-Europeans left their mark on populations in India, Iran, etc?

Yes but it was quite limited and it did alter their language through elite dominance. This why they have some North European admixture, and sometimes such European phenotypes appear from time to time.

[Yehiel]

Yes but it was quite limited and it did alter their language through elite dominance. This why they have some North European admixture, and sometimes such European phenotypes appear from time to time.

Interesting.

[StonyArabia]

bump

[alanr]

Makes sense because the Qizilbash were Persian, Kurds and Lurs who adopted a Turkic language. Many of them identify as Persians. There is few of them that identify as Turkoman but have heavy Persian culture. Some of the Iraqi Qizilbash are called Shabak and eventually returned to Iranic roots. They even claim descent from the forces of Shah Ismail I.

?? Since when do the Shabaks identify themselves as Persians? The majority of Shabaks are Kurds and speak a Kurdish dialects that has somewhat been influences by Turkic and Arabic languages. Shabaki is classified as a Gorani-Zazaki dialect, and don't forget, most of Southern (Iraqi) Kurdistan spoke Gorani until Sorani dominated around 200 years ago. Sorani is basically Kurmanji spoken in Gorani accent.

[alanr]

I wonder where is it that Kurds get this irano-nordid look from? the Caucasus? Surely they ancient persians didnt look like that.

There are several factors. First of all we must take into consideration the Iranic tribes that arrived in Kurdistan first, and then the Alani tribes that arrived later on. The Iranic/Irani tribes that lived in the mountains retained their original looks and still do. If you go deep into Kurdish mountain villages you will find a high rate of light hair/eyes. In the cities the situation is different, although most Kurds are born pale with dark hair, the environment dictates a darker skin tone as they grow up.

[StonyArabia]

?? Since when do the Shabaks identify themselves as Persians? The majority of Shabaks are Kurds and speak a Kurdish dialects that has somewhat been influences by Turkic and Arabic languages. Shabaki is classified as a Gorani-Zazaki dialect, and don't forget, most of Southern (Iraqi) Kurdistan spoke Gorani until Sorani dominated around 200 years ago. Sorani is basically Kurmanji spoken in Gorani accent.

The Shabaks claim Qizilbash ancestry from Shah Ismail forces.I am speaking about the Qizilbash who were Turkomans who assimilated into Persian society and culture.

[alanr]

The Shabaks claim Qizilbash ancestry from Shah Ismail forces.

Who's told you that? And even so, how does that make them Persian?? The Shabaks are Gorani-Zazaki Kurds, the same Kurds that you will find in Kermanshan and Dersim. As I said, 200 years ago, Kurds in Erbil, Slemani, Kirkuk and Diyala were also speaking the Gorani-Zazaki dialect. Sorani only started dominating around 200 years ago and in reality the original Sorani is much, much closer to Kurmanji. The Sorani spoken today is heavily influenced by Gorani-Zazaki.

"Among the Kurdish tribes in the Ottoman empire, Sykes (1908: 455-6) lists 500 Shabak families, 'sedentary, said to be Shias by sorne, others affirm them to have a secret religion, others that they are Babis, others that they acknowledge a prophet named Baba'. Baba is in fact the title of their highest religious leader, rather than the name of a specific individual. Incidentally, all of these authors consider the Shabak, and their close neighbours the Bajalan, as Kurds."

There is nothing Persian about the Shabak. In that case, the Faylie are Persian too?

[StonyArabia]

Who's told you that? And even so, how does that make them Persian?? The Shabaks are Gorani-Zazaki Kurds, the same Kurds that you will find in Kermanshan and Dersim. As I said, 200 years ago, Kurds in Erbil, Slemani, Kirkuk and Diyala were also speaking the Gorani-Zazaki dialect. Sorani only started dominating around 200 years ago and in reality the original Sorani is much, much closer to Kurmanji. The Sorani spoken today is heavily influenced by Gorani-Zazaki.

"Among the Kurdish tribes in the Ottoman empire, Sykes (1908: 455-6) lists 500 Shabak families, 'sedentary, said to be Shias by sorne, others affirm them to have a secret religion, others that they are Babis, others that they acknowledge a prophet named Baba'. Baba is in fact the title of their highest religious leader, rather than the name of a specific individual. Incidentally, all of these authors consider the Shabak, and their close neighbours the Bajalan, as Kurds."

There is nothing Persian about the Shabak. In that case, the Faylie are Persian too?

Of course not, but they themselves claim to descent from the Qizilbash. And there Shiaism is Alevi to, there religion is different from the Faylis. They are not Persian but they are Iranic.

[alanr]

There are political motivation behind dividing the Kurdish nation. You probably didn't know but up until the last century the Lurs were also part of the Kurdish nation. Today only the Laks consider themselves to be Kurds, and a minority of Lurs. They tried to do the same with the Yezidis which failed because their holy book is in Kurdish, and they are trying to do the same with the Shabak and Zaza Kurds.

[alanr]

Of course not, but they themselves claim to descent from the Qizilbash. And there Shiaism is Alevi to, there religion is different from the Faylis. They are not Persian but they are Iranic.

Yes and there are Alevi Kurds too, in Anatolia that speak Zazaki. Shabaki is a dialect of the Gorani-Zakaki dialect of the Kurdish language.

There are political motivation behind dividing the Kurdish nation. You probably didn't know but up until the last century the Lurs were also part of the Kurdish nation. Today only the Laks consider themselves to be Kurds, and a minority of Lurs. They tried to do the same with the Yezidis which failed because their holy book is in Kurdish, and they are trying to do the same with the Shabak and Zaza Kurds.

[StonyArabia]

Yes and there are Alevi Kurds too, in Anatolia that speak Zazaki. Shabaki is a dialect of the Gorani-Zakaki dialect of the Kurdish language.

There are political motivation behind dividing the Kurdish nation. You probably didn't know but up until the last century the Lurs were also part of the Kurdish nation. Today only the Laks consider themselves to be Kurds, and a minority of Lurs. They tried to do the same with the Yezidis which failed because their holy book is in Kurdish, and they are trying to do the same with the Shabak and Zaza Kurds.

Ah I see true. I have always seen the Shabaks, Yezidis, and Zaza being considered different ethnic groups. They are only religiously different. The Lurs are Persianized now but it would not be strange if they were of Kurdish origins. It's funny that Yezidis were considered Arabs by the former Iraqi government.

[alanr]

Ah I see true. I have always seen the Shabaks, Yezidis, and Zaza being considered different ethnic groups. They are only religiously different. The Lurs are Persianized now but it would not be strange if they were of Kurdish origins. It's funny that Yezidis were considered Arabs by the former Iraqi government.

These are just divide and conquer tactics. Ask any Lak and they will tell you that they and the Lurs are Kurds, but the majority of Lurs are persinized. The reasons the Persians use are just too funny. They claim Luri has 70% proximity to Persian, yet, so do any other Kurdish dialect, otherwise why else would we be classified under Iranic? They just twisted facts and played with words along with a long brainwashing process.

Just a few days ago the Iranian consulate in Erbil released an article claiming that "Kurdish is a dialect of Persian" and that "their homeland is Iran" which resulted in the summoning of the consulate by the foreign ministry. Needless to say, now you know what we never liked "our Iranic cousins"

[Graine]

These are just divide and conquer tactics. Ask any Lak and they will tell you that they and the Lurs are Kurds, but the majority of Lurs are persinized. The reasons the Persians use are just too funny. They claim Luri has 70% proximity to Persian, yet, so do any other Kurdish dialect, otherwise why else would we be classified under Iranic? They just twisted facts and played with words along with a long brainwashing process.

Just a few days ago the Iranian consulate in Erbil released an article claiming that "Kurdish is a dialect of Persian" and that "their homeland is Iran" which resulted in the summoning of the consulate by the foreign ministry. Needless to say, now you know what we never liked "our Iranic cousins"Lurs are closer to Persians than Kurds.

[random]

Lurs are closer to Persians than Kurds. There is no doubt about that.

True. Their language is closer to ancient persian and it's from the southwestern branch of the Iranian languages.
Kurdish belongs to the northwestern branch.

[StonyArabia]

True. Their language is closer to ancient persian and it's from the southwestern branch of the Iranian languages.
Kurdish belongs to the northwestern branch.

Does the man pass in Iran or no?He looks quite Iranian than Iraqi.

[random]

Does the man pass in Iran or no?He looks quite Iranian than Iraqi.

He can pass in Iran. Yeah he doesn't look Iraqi at all.

[StonyArabia]

He can pass in Iran. Yeah he doesn't look Iraqi at all.

Yeah he looks North Iranian to me. I never seen an iraqi with his phenotype. The Qizilbash in Iraq are quite Iranid.

[random]

Yeah he looks North Iranian to me. I never seen an iraqi with his phenotype. The Qizilbash in Iraq are quite Iranid.

He's a light asian alpine. If he was darker he would pass in a lot of countries.

[StonyArabia]

He's a light asian alpine. If he was darker he would pass in a lot of countries.

I don't think he is Asian alpine but Iranid

[random]

I don't think he is Asian alpine but Iranid

http://s10.imagestime.com/out.php/i889891_asianalpinoid.png
http://s1.postimg.org/g2y27dkrj/iranid.jpg

http://s8.postimg.org/ea0ra8trp/robustiranid.jpg