Suicide, and the things around it

[HawkR]

If you talk to some random at the street and asks what they think about suicide, they'll most likely say it's selfish, but is ittruly that? There are a few things about suicide I'll like to ask you about:

1. Is suicide really that selfish?
2. Why do people commit suicide?
3. Who's fault is it?
4. If all your family members/friends etc. were gone, would you commit suicide?

[Ulf]

It is always consoling to think of suicide: in that way one gets through many a bad night. -F.W.N.

1. Yes. It's selfish.
2. They find there's not anything worth sticking around for, even if that's not true.
3. Depends. Mostly the person doing it though.
4. Maybe, or I would just go out in a blaze of glory.

I've contemplated suicide. Not the extent where I felt any desire to do anything but mainly because I'm fascinated with my mortality. I try to face it and come to terms with it. I'm not afraid to die, but be happy I'm alive and if I die tomorrow, die with a smile.

:coffee:

[Treffie]

If you talk to some random at the street and asks what they think about suicide, they'll most likely say it's selfish, but is ittruly that? There are a few things about suicide I'll like to ask you about:

1. Is suicide really that selfish?

This depends on how you view suicide. If you visualise it from the point of view of the victim and the circumstances that surround it, your opinion may sway either way. I know of one local man who after hearing that his children were to be given to his wife after a messy divorce and that he wouldn't be able to see them as often as he liked, he decided to tie a noose to a tree at one end and the other end around his neck while he was sat in his car. He pressed the pedal of the accelerator and within seconds he was decapitated.

If you visualise the above case from the point of view of the children, then one would tend to think that this was a cruel and selfish act.



2. Why do people commit suicide?

Mental disorders

Suffering

Stress

Grief

Unrequited love

Withdrawal or discontinuation of psychoactive substances

As philosophically or ideologically motivated move

To escape punishment or an abusive environment

Guilt or shame

Catastrophic injury

Financial loss

Self sacrifice

As part of a military or social strategy (e.g. suicide attacks)

Belief that life has no inherent value (e.g. absurdism, pessimism, nihilism)

As part of a religious or cult doctrine

Loneliness

To restore honor (e.g. seppuku)

Curiosity for post-life occurrences

Fear of aging

Unresolved sexual issues

Drugs as in the paradoxical effect of some sedatives


3. Who's fault is it?

This would depend on what kind of suicide it was.


4. If all your family members/friends etc. were gone, would you commit suicide?

Personally no. My mother, father and brother have already passed away and my sister lives in Australia. My partner is very supportive and loving and I have a decent sized circle of friends who I can trust, but when I experienced my first major bereavement I had considered it.

[Absinthe]

I think we need to distinguish between different kinds of suicide, few kinds already come to mind:

- suicide that results from depression

- suicide that results from an extremely traumatic event such as the death of loved ones or bankruptcy

- voluntary euthanasia, when one is terminally ill

- harakiri, done for matters of honor

- suicide bombing, meant to harm others as well

- ritual suicide, commited by some religious sects, assuming that it will give them access to the sacred

etc...

So, I am assuming you are referring to the first kind, that of seemingly healthy individuals with seemingly normal lives.

I remember a swedish friend telling me his 25 year old cousin killed herself just out of the blue, the authorities concluded it was 'occupational stress' (she was a nurse, f.f.s...).

So I am guessing she was one of many clinically depressed people that everybody around them is too busy to notice.
I bet she was polite and smiling to customers so it would be such a huge surprise to them that she killed herself 'out of the blue'.

So in order to prevent suicide we should first learn how to identify depression, which is not all that hard.

To put it in layperson terms, if you know someone that during the last months has been starting to look tired and sleepy, even though the amount of physical activity has not increased, seems disinterested in social activities and keeps declining your invitations to go out...

Stops caring about him/herself, and laugh not, if you notice one of your friends being less and less groomed every week, say you see him or her repeatedly with unwashed hair and dirty clothes...

If you see them increase their drinking or if they used to be social drinkers, cut it altogether...

And also, a most common misconception is that a depressed person looks sad.

From my own experience with depressed people (my own mother included) I have come to the conclusion that a severely depressed person is more likely going to excibit flat affect (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=26293), meaning, absense of emotional expression, rather than sadness or melancholy!

Flat affect and absent-mindedness (usually to the point of memory losses) must be the most alarming signs. I am guessing that this is the point where the person 'shuts off' all thoughts and emotions, and runs on autopilot.

Be alert to see if you are actually heard and understood by a suspected depressive person.
Frequently, they nod and may reply 'yes' and 'no' but they don't actually hear you, they've shut you out.

For the more scientific jargon, as well as the details and different types of depression, go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression).

And also, be aware of another common misconception: that a person who talks about suicide is merely attention seeking and will not do it.

The statistics show that those who talk about it are more likely to go through with it, than those who don't talk about it.

Usually there are warning signs even if one doesn't talk about it, so be alert with your friends and family, if you suspect them as depressed.

[Treffie]

Article on a suicide cluster near me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2540984/Bridgend-hanging-is-23rd-suicide-in-area-in-20-months.html

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2008/Jan/Week4/1636677.jpg

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00285/parry185_285934a.jpg

[Oresai]

1. Is suicide really that selfish?


Yes, mainly because death is hardest on those left behind, left to grieve and believe, rightly or wrongly, they may have contributed to or been the reason for it.



2. Why do people commit suicide?

In my opinion? Weakness of character.


3. Who's fault is it?

Only the person doing the act.


4. If all your family members/friends etc. were gone, would you commit suicide?


No.

There are times in life I`ve given suicide serious consideration, (clinical depression being one ) few, but still....then I looked at the people I loved, who love me, and knew it would be a dishonourable and selfish thing to do. And, of course, the circumstances i considered at the time to be unbearable passed, and I regained happiness and confidence again.

I think the few times suicide is justified is for mortal illness. Then it becomes something more, something that should be sacred choice, whether to suffer needlessly or end that suffering.
And of course, goes without saying, I despise the type of ritual suicide that homicidal bombers deploy, going out in what the perceive as `glory` whilst taking as many of the enemy with them.
Totally agree with Absinthe, re depression...it`s rarely seen by onlookers, as most depressives are so guilt ridden over feeling that way they create great mechanisms for hiding the symptoms.

Edited to add, often something which can make a suicidal person rethink the matter is a genuine brush with death. Been near death, once `dying` on an operating table, twice. It gives one a renewed sense of how valuable life can be and how much there really is, often taken for granted, to live for. :)

[Absinthe]

1. Is suicide really that selfish?

I doubt it, as the person commiting suicide has blurred perception of his/her actions.

2. Why do people commit suicide?

If we're talking about suicide in the western world (the kind I attempted to analyze in my previous post), I believe it is the modern lifestyle to blame for it,

Urbanization, loss of contact with nature, absense of genuine human relationships, materialism and artificial needs, mechanized, uninspired way of life, loss of spirituality and unnatural lifestyles, exhausting rhythms, tunnel vision resulting from individualism, and so and so forth....

3. Who's fault is it?

Everybody's. See above.

4. If all your family members/friends etc. were gone, would you commit suicide?

No, I don't think so. I've already lost my share of loved ones and I can assure you it was extremely painful, but it is something I had to deal with as it's a natural process of life, even the unexpected deaths of young people.

[Loyalist]

My father, a chronically-depressed alcoholic, committed suicide when I was 15. The problems in his life were his own creation, and not being able to deal with them, he opted out, leaving my mother and I to clean up his mess. That said, whether or not suicide is selfish must be considered on a case-by-case basis. The circumstances that provoked the victim into ending their life, and other factors, such as dependents being left behind, must be taken into account. However, at no point is it the fault of anyone else. Unless it is a case of others blatantly ignoring the individual's suicidal threats (should any be made) or otherwise encouraging such an act, only the perpetrator makes a decision to end their life.

[Revenant]

If you talk to some random at the street and asks what they think about suicide, they'll most likely say it's selfish, but is ittruly that? There are a few things about suicide I'll like to ask you about:

1. Is suicide really that selfish?

Assuming all else is "normal", yes, obviously this is a self first action.


2. Why do people commit suicide?

Some good reasons have already been listed, I'd say anything could help someone make the decision to commit suicide. Obviously though unless someone leaves a note, even then, we just don't know.


3. Who's fault is it?

Again, we can't bring them back and ask them, but it's their decision at the end of the day.


4. If all your family members/friends etc. were gone, would you commit suicide?

No, I couldn't see myself that worried about being alone, if that's what you mean.

I'll just add, suicide is a fundamental human right, if not the most fundamental.