China's poorest beat Britains best pupils

[DeaththeKid]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10645090/Chinas-poorest-beat-our-best-pupils.html#disqus_thread

"Children of factory workers and cleaners in Far East achieve better exam results than offspring of British lawyers and doctors, says OECD"

[Liac]

It doesn't matter, communist and post-communist countries have more difficult educational program than western, but still they're poorer and less developed.

[Loki]

Unsurprising, they have a higher IQ.

[zhaoyun]

Its the same in the US, poor East Asians score as high or higher than the wealthy of other races.

[Longbowman]

Call me when they start beating AJs.

[GrebluBro]

Call me when they start beating AJs.

Let me know when they beat Tamil Brahmins :P

[zhaoyun]

Call me when they start beating AJs.

You're comparing a small select group of elite Jews to a country of 1.3 Billion. Israeli Jews perform pretty poorly on these tests on average.

In comparison, the highest performing subset of Chinese, the ones from Jiangnan or Eastern China have consistently performed as high as AJs. I think the two groups are considered the highest IQ groups in the world. However, I don't believe in genetic reasons for this, I think it is primarily cultural.

[Longbowman]

You're comparing a small select group of elite Jews to a country of 1.3 Billion. Israeli Jews perform pretty poorly on these tests on average.

In comparison, the highest performing subset of Chinese, the ones from Jiangnan or Eastern China have consistently performed as high as AJs. I think the two groups are considered the highest IQ groups in the world. However, I don't believe in genetic reasons for this, I think it is primarily cultural.

Israeli Jewish children are primarily not Ashkenazis or Sephardics.

AJs are not a subset of an ethnicity, they are their own ethnicity with an average IQ about 10 points higher than the average Chinese person. They have their own elite, which would be higher still.

But yes, I doubt it's primarily genetic.

[zhaoyun]

Israeli Jewish children are primarily not Ashkenazis or Sephardics.

AJs are not a subset of an ethnicity, they are their own ethnicity with an average IQ about 10 points higher than the average Chinese person. They have their own elite, which would be higher still.

But yes, I doubt it's primarily genetic.

The 105 range is China's AVERAGE. That means there are provinces that are higher. I believe in the highest region, namely Jiangnan, composed of the provinces of Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Shanghai, it is roughly on average about 115, which is equivalent to AJ's. However, two factors to consider is that in comparison to the per capita wealth of AJ's, these regions are still very poor, and we are comparing about a population of 150 million compared to 15 million AJ's. So that is a pretty amazing average IQ to hold up.

Either way, because of China's isolation, it has been a laggard in achievement the past couple centuries. But I think the next 100 years will see a great deal of intellectual achievements come out of China exponentially as time goes by.

[SKYNET]

people of the Caucasoid race like English, French, Italians, Scottish, Germans, Greeks, Romans have invented the modern world :grouphug:

[Longbowman]

The 105 range is China's AVERAGE. That means there are provinces that are higher. I believe in the highest region, namely Jiangnan, composed of the provinces of Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Shanghai, it is roughly on average about 115, which is equivalent to AJ's. However, two factors to consider is that in comparison to the per capita wealth of AJ's, these regions are still very poor, and we are comparing about a population of 150 million compared to 15 million AJ's. So that is a pretty amazing average IQ to hold up.

Either way, because of China's isolation, it has been a laggard in achievement the past couple centuries. But I think the next 100 years will see a great deal of intellectual achievements come out of China exponentially as time goes by.

115 is the AJ's AVERAGE. That means there are subsets that are higher. I believe the highest group, namely the Spanish and Portuguese, is roughly 130, which is equivalent to a lot more than the group you mention. However, two factors to consider are that in comparison to the political stability China has had, the Jews have had to overcome a lot of genocide and population-shifting and poverty over the past millennia. So that's a pretty amazing average IQ to hold up.

Dude, just accept the AJs/S&Ps are a cut above :P

[zhaoyun]

people of the Caucasoid race like English, French, Italians, Scottish, Germans, Greeks, Romans have invented the modern world :grouphug:

While that is true for the most part, its not because of any innate racial superiority. It is because of social and geopolitical factors that allowed Western Europe to become dominant from the discovery of the New World on.

[GrebluBro]

In my book,
Tamil Brahmins > AJ > East Asians > others :thumb001:

[Longbowman]

In my book,
Tamil Brahmins > AJ > East Asians > others :thumb001:

In my book, S&P Brits with AJ, Ukrainian and Spanish blood > other S&Ps > other AJs > other Brits > all other groups are irrelevant ;)

[zhaoyun]

115 is the AJ's AVERAGE. That means there are subsets that are higher. I believe the highest group, namely the Spanish and Portuguese, is roughly 130, which is equivalent to a lot more than the group you mention. However, two factors to consider are that in comparison to the political stability China has had, the Jews have had to overcome a lot of genocide and population-shifting and poverty over the past millennia. So that's a pretty amazing average IQ to hold up.

Dude, just accept the AJs/S&Ps are a cut above :P

No, because you are using very small population groups. I am pretty sure I can find similar subsets of Chinese with similar per capita wealth incomes that are as high or higher than the aforementioned groups of AJs.

[zhaoyun]

In my book,
Tamil Brahmins > AJ > East Asians > others :thumb001:

Keep telling yourself that

[GrebluBro]

First of all, it's pointless to compare people who live in different places.

We should compare performance of different races within the UK or the US.

[Longbowman]

No, because you are using very small population groups. I am pretty sure I can find similar subsets of Chinese with similar per capita wealth incomes that are as high or higher than the aforementioned groups of AJs.

Maybe you could. But of course my groups are small. You're talking about a group of 1.3 billion people. I'm talking about a group of 13 million people.

Ultimately, AJs/S&Ps have the highest average IQs of any racial or ethnic group, and class differences will corroborate with this (ie, group x's upper class might be smarter than the average AJ, but the AJ upper class will be smarter than the upper class of group x). This isn't really something that's up for debate, AJ IQ 'superiority' is a recognised phenomenon.

[GrebluBro]

Keep telling yourself that

You keep telling yourself that East Asians are smarter than AJ :laugh:

[Longbowman]

First of all, it's pointless to compare people who live in different places.

We should compare performance of different races within the UK or the US.

They do. AJs come out on top by quite a lot.

[Longbowman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#United_States_test_scores


The IQ distributions of other racial and ethnic groups in the United States are less well-studied. The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latinos 89, whites 103, East Asians 106, and Ashkenazi Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.[53]

[zhaoyun]

Maybe you could. But of course my groups are small. You're talking about a group of 1.3 billion people. I'm talking about a group of 13 million people.

Ultimately, AJs/S&Ps have the highest average IQs of any racial or ethnic group, and class differences will corroborate with this (ie, group x's upper class might be smarter than the average AJ, but the AJ upper class will be smarter than the upper class of group x). This isn't really something that's up for debate, AJ IQ 'superiority' is a recognised phenomenon.

Thats only because more research and studies have been done on the subject. If I could cherry pick and only choose the inner circles of power in the Chinese world, I am pretty sure I can come up with IQ ranges equal or perhaps higher than the AJ subsets you are choosing. Of course, the Jews have had an overinflated presence in the Western world, so there has been many studies done on the sociological character of the different Jewish subsets.

[GrebluBro]

They do. AJs come out on top by quite a lot.

I think current AJ people are descendants of survived bright (on average) people who are left after several persecutions (many poorer & less intelligent wiped out) over the past 2000 years.

It's common for wealth & high-intelligent people to escape persecutions or to have capability to sustain more.

[Insuperable]

The 105 range is China's AVERAGE. That means there are provinces that are higher. I believe in the highest region, namely Jiangnan, composed of the provinces of Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Shanghai, it is roughly on average about 115, which is equivalent to AJ's. However, two factors to consider is that in comparison to the per capita wealth of AJ's, these regions are still very poor, and we are comparing about a population of 150 million compared to 15 million AJ's. So that is a pretty amazing average IQ to hold up.

Either way, because of China's isolation, it has been a laggard in achievement the past couple centuries. But I think the next 100 years will see a great deal of intellectual achievements come out of China exponentially as time goes by.

An average IQ in Shangai and one region next to it is 108. That is the highest by region.

[Longbowman]

Thats only because more research and studies have been done on the subject. If I could cherry pick and only choose the inner circles of power in the Chinese world, I am pretty sure I can come up with IQ ranges equal or perhaps higher than the AJ subsets you are choosing. Of course, the Jews have had an overinflated presence in the Western world, so there has been many studies done on the sociological character of the different Jewish subsets.

Dude. The average AJ IQ is 115 or so. That's not from a special subset, it's from the general population. The general Han population has an IQ of 105 or so. Stop being so defensive. On average, they're smarter than you. But hey, you outnumber them 100 to 1, so I wouldn't worry about it.

If you do ever find an ethnicity to rival the AJs, tell me about them.

[Longbowman]

I think current AJ people are descendants of survived bright (on average) people who are left after several persecutions (many poorer & less intelligent wiped out) over the past 2000 years.

Almost certainly.

[zhaoyun]

I think current AJ people are descendants of survived bright (on average) people who are left after several persecutions (many poorer & less intelligent wiped out) over the past 2000 years.

That may be part of it, but honestly an average of 113 for 15 million AJs versus an average of 106 for 1.5 billion East Asians, (who per capita wealth wise are only a fraction of the AJs), that's a difference that is well within the error range to compensate for the difference in socio-economic status.

[Longbowman]

That may be part of it, but honestly an average of 113 for 15 million AJs versus an average of 106 for 1.5 billion East Asians, (who per capita wealth wise are only a fraction of the AJs), that's a difference that is well within the error range to compensate for the difference in socio-economic status.

No, it really isn't. Stop being so defensive.

[GrebluBro]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#United_States_test_scores

The IQ distributions of other racial and ethnic groups in the United States are less well-studied. The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latinos 89, whites 103, East Asians 106, and Ashkenazi Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.[53]


Sounds legit..

No Indians ? :(
I think they score 106.1

[zhaoyun]

Dude. The average AJ IQ is 115 or so. That's not from a special subset, it's from the general population. The general Han population has an IQ of 105 or so. Stop being so defensive. On average, they're smarter than you. But hey, you outnumber them 100 to 1, so I wouldn't worry about it.

If you do ever find an ethnicity to rival the AJs, tell me about them.

I already did. Chinese from the Jiangnan region, a region of 150 million have on average roughly about 113 with far less per capita wealth.

[DeaththeKid]

Call me when they start beating AJs.

The problem is there are a lot more Chinese then AJ's :)

[Longbowman]

Sounds legit..

No Indians ? :(
I think they score 106.1

I guess they weren't a large enough group in the US. Australoids and MENA folk and actual Africans neither.

[Longbowman]

I already did. Chinese from the Jiangnan region, a region of 150 million have on average roughly about 113 with far less per capita wealth.

Oh, no link to a study, but cool. S&Ps have an average IQ of 127, probably. Your play. Of course, not all AJ groups will be 113 - some will be more, and some will be less.

...do you happen to come from the Jiangan region?

[zhaoyun]

Oh, no link to a study, but cool. S&Ps have an average IQ of 127, probably. Your play. Of course, not all AJ groups will be 113 - some will be more, and some will be less.

...do you happen to come from the Jiangan region?

Some of my ancestry is.

[Longbowman]

Some of my ancestry is.

Quel surprise ;)

[GrebluBro]

The problem is there are a lot more Chinese then AJ's :)

You got any studies about Tamil/south-Indian Brahmins ?

[zhaoyun]

First of all, it's pointless to compare people who live in different places.

We should compare performance of different races within the UK or the US.


WTF is wrong with you thumbing down my posts that have absolutely nothing to do with you?

[zhaoyun]

Quel surprise ;)

Yeah, its why my intelligence is substantially above average. :)

[GrebluBro]

WTF is wrong with you thumbing down my posts that have absolutely nothing to do with you?

I also thumbed up your posts..didn't you see? :P

[DeaththeKid]

You got any studies about Tamil/south-Indian Brahmins ?

Sorry no I just saw that article on the Telegraph but I haven't seen anything about Indians

[Longbowman]

Yeah, its why my intelligence is substantially above average. :)

Yours is. You are far more intelligent than the average AJ. I have no doubt of that.

However, AJs are on average the most intelligent folk around.

http://www.darkmoon.me/2012/world-iq-figures-with-brief-notes-on-ashkenazi-jews-and-the-khazarian-thesis-of-koestler-by-lasha-darkmoon/


Nobel Prizes: Since 1950, 29% of the awards have gone to Ashkenazim, even though they represent only 0.25% of humanity. Ashkenazi achievement in this arena is 117 times greater than their population.

Hungary in the 1930s: Ashkenazim were 6% of the population, but they comprised 55.7% of physicians, 49.2% of attorneys, 30.4% of engineers, and 59.4% of bank officers; plus, they owned 49.4% of the metallurgy industry, 41.6% of machine manufacturing, 72.8% of clothing manufacturing, and, as housing owners, they received 45.1% of Budapest rental income. Jews were similarly successful in nearby nations, like Poland and Germany.

USA (today): Ashkenazi Jews comprise 2.2% of the USA population, but they represent 30% of faculty at elite colleges, 21% of Ivy League students, 25% of the Turing Award winners, 23% of the wealthiest Americans, and 38% of the Oscar-winning film directors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence


One observational basis for inferring that Ashkenazi Jews have high intelligence is their prevalence in intellectually demanding fields. While only about 3% of the U.S. population is of full Ashkenazi Jewish descent,[2] 27% of United States Nobel prize winners in the 20th century,[2][3] 25% of Fields Medal winners,[4] 25% of ACM Turing Award winners,[2] 6 out of the 19 world chess champions, and a quarter of Westinghouse Science Talent Search winners have either full or partial Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry.[4] However, such statistics do not rule out factors other than intelligence, such as institutional biases and social networks. Undue weight is also given to the Ashkenazi statistics because people of partial Ashkenazi ancestry (half or less) are included, but only compared to the portion of the US population of full Ashkenazi descent.

[zhaoyun]

Yours is. You are far more intelligent than the average AJ. I have no doubt of that.

However, AJs are on average the most intelligent folk around.

http://www.darkmoon.me/2012/world-iq-figures-with-brief-notes-on-ashkenazi-jews-and-the-khazarian-thesis-of-koestler-by-lasha-darkmoon/



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence

Well, as a distinct social group, possibly. Though I do not necessarily correlate IQ with intelligence. I consider the very high AJ average IQ the result of a great deal of socio-economic, cultural and historic factors which i will not go into at this time however.

[Longbowman]

Well, as a distinct social group, possibly. Though I do not necessarily correlate IQ with intelligence. I consider the very high AJ average IQ the result of a great deal of socio-economic, cultural and historic factors which i will not go into at this time however.

As you wish :)

[Sikeliot]

Israeli Jewish children are primarily not Ashkenazis or Sephardics.

AJs are not a subset of an ethnicity, they are their own ethnicity with an average IQ about 10 points higher than the average Chinese person. They have their own elite, which would be higher still.

But yes, I doubt it's primarily genetic.

I don't think it is genetic. Ashkenazis have a nearly identical genetic admixture to Sicilians, and I have not seen anyone suggesting we are some brilliant people. My father's relatives are dumb as a post!

[GrebluBro]

///

Well, there are many non-intelligence related factors there behind their success.

They were forced to live in Urban areas for more than 1000 years, and they made (compelled) a living through education related jobs for many generations => obviously they had a head start..

Since 1900, most Jews live in very beneficial urban regions like New York, Los Angeles, London, etc.. => more opportunities & exposure
Also Jewish culture favors them to strive hard..

So attributing their success to their IQ is not wise.

[zhaoyun]

I don't think it is genetic. Ashkenazis have a nearly identical genetic admixture to Sicilians, and I have not seen anyone suggesting we are some brilliant people. My father's relatives are dumb as a post!

I disagree, Sicilians are pretty smart in getting shit done. Uncle Vinny said so.

[DeaththeKid]

I disagree, Sicilians are pretty smart in getting shit done. Uncle Vinny said so.

They're wise guys :)

[Insuperable]

First of all, it's pointless to compare people who live in different places.

We should compare performance of different races within the UK or the US.

1. Immigrant mentality is such that they are prone and driven to succeed
2. Rich European based countries attract a lot of smart individuals namely those with Phd and smart students and people
3. In one study done in Germany Germans who attended "diverse people" classes had IQ drop or performed less well (can't remember exactly) compared to those who didn't

I am sure that British immigrants in China or India due to their system would also outperform natives because Brits are Uebermenschen

[GrebluBro]

There is bullshit going on in many Jewish topics..


If successful non-Jew marries even an average Jew and their children becomes an achiever => that achiever is Jewish (no one talks about Gentile who was the main cause here_
If both parents (one Jew , another non-Jew) are the main cause of a particular achiever => even then, no one cares about Gentile/non-Jewish side

[Sikeliot]

I disagree, Sicilians are pretty smart in getting shit done. Uncle Vinny said so.

Sicilians are good at business and trade. But you never hear anyone say they are as smart as Ashkenazis.

The funny thing is I know many Jewish people in my classes and I do just as well as they do on every test :)

[zhaoyun]

Sicilians are good at business and trade. But you never hear anyone say they are as smart as Ashkenazis.

The funny thing is I know many Jewish people in my classes and I do just as well as they do on every test :)

Maybe you're actually Jewish then. You did say you guys were genetically identical. lol

[Sikeliot]

Maybe you're actually Jewish then. You did say you guys were genetically identical. lol

I was half kidding. Both are a Levantine-European mixture, so it proves that either 1) it is not genetic, or 2) it is genetic and Sicilians could be just as smart but are not using their potential :)

[Longbowman]

Well, there are many non-intelligence related factors there behind their success.

They were forced to live in Urban areas for more than 1000 years, and they made (compelled) a living through education related jobs for many generations => obviously they had a head start..

Since 1900, most Jews live in very beneficial urban regions like New York, Los Angeles, London, etc.. => more opportunities & exposure
Also Jewish culture favors them to strive hard..

So attributing their success to their IQ is not wise.

Both their success and intelligence are attributable to the factors you mention. You're viewing it the wrong way. I'm not saying it's inherently racial but as a group they're the smartest.

[Stormer99]

I don't think it is genetic. Ashkenazis have a nearly identical genetic admixture to Sicilians, and I have not seen anyone suggesting we are some brilliant people. My father's relatives are dumb as a post!

I don't think so. My family is very intelligent. The Sicilians that were of a more Middle class background back in the old country are very smart.

[Kale]

the Jews have had to overcome a lot of genocide over the past millennia. So that's a pretty amazing average IQ to hold up.

That's because only the smart ones got out alive. Of course you'll average good if you only average the good.

[Sikeliot]

Ashkenazi IQ is probably due to natural selection.

[Anglojew]

Chinese routinely cheat

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357509/Chinese-universities-ban-BRAS-bid-crack-cheating-worlds-toughest-exam.html
http://world.time.com/2013/12/04/china-is-cheating-the-world-student-rankings-system/

[zhaoyun]

Chinese routinely cheat

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357509/Chinese-universities-ban-BRAS-bid-crack-cheating-worlds-toughest-exam.html
http://world.time.com/2013/12/04/china-is-cheating-the-world-student-rankings-system/

Nice try. But if we are talking about standardised tests, its well substantiated that Chinese cultural groups throughout the world almost always excel very highly.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

They do tons of useless rote learning, a crazy amount. I don't think that level is needed, but something more than the currently useless education system is.

[Dál Riata]

Some of it is genetic but a lot is environmental and cultural. I could have probably been another Einstein if I wasn't surrounded by a bunch of chavscum at school. And the crap I used to watch on TV :(

Many bright kids end up dumbing themselves down to fit in with perceived cultural norms such as not being a nerd! Some will see the bigger picture and overcome peer pressure, but not all will. Groupthink is the problem and 'pop culture' is dumbing us down deliberately so that those who run TV/Hollywood will have less competition in business.

[Scandalf]

It doesn't matter, communist and post-communist countries have more difficult educational program than western, but still they're poorer and less developed.

Now that's an interesting comment!
Something I was wondering about not too long ago.

[Scandalf]

people of the Caucasoid race like English, French, Italians, Scottish, Germans, Greeks, Romans have invented the modern world :grouphug:

They have conquered it for sure. But I think other cultures gave their contribution too.

[Graham]

The English school system's being changed radically atm. Michael Gove isn't seen as decent by the teachers. But I'll wait and see if it works.

Up North we've taking a different philosophical Liberal Finnish like approach. Down South it's getting stricter, more hours and more exams.