Crimean volunteers signing up for batallions

[Loki]

http://youtu.be/R_l9My5fG-E

Can a Russian speaker please verify?

[Loki]

http://youtu.be/Oy-fMGB7ZnU

People in Sevastopol appoint new major, refuse to take orders from Kiev. Crimea is forming paramilitary units and blocking roads to mainland Ukraine right now.

[glass]

yes this is true
they are forming militia

[Äijä]

Great, I am sure many Russians outside Russia are watching this with excitement.

[Dombra]

Great, I am sure one certain Russian outside Russia is watching this with excitement.

Is this what you meant?

[Äijä]

Is this what you meant?

With what?

[Äijä]

Oh, missed you edit, lol.

No, I think there are many of those.

[Dál Riata]

They live in Ukraine. They should respect the country they live in.

[RussiaPrussia]

They live in Ukraine. They should respect the country they live in.

they life in eastern ukraine, western ukrainian fascists can go to hell

[Styrian Mujo]

I hope there will be a war, im kinda bored:p

[Anglojew]

They live in Ukraine. They should respect the country they live in.

Crimea is historically part of Russia. It's Russian Speaking and was only "given" to Ukraine in 1954.

[Loki]

Crimea is historically part of Russia. It's Russian Speaking and was only "given" to Ukraine in 1954.

.. by Krushchev, who was an ethnic Ukrainian. :rolleyes:

[RussiaPrussia]

they life in eastern ukraine, western ukrainian fascists can go to hell

i have to correct my self, gypsies are good people

[Loki]

i have to correct my self, gypsies are good people

Is that a tranny in your avatar? :D

[RussiaPrussia]

Is that a tranny in your avatar? :D

nope russian untermensch

[Loki]

They live in Ukraine. They should respect the country they live in.

The fascists in Western Ukraine didn't respect their country. They turned Kiev, their own capital, into a hellhole. They still haven't started cleaning it up yet. Let it rot, Ukraine will become bankrupt soon. Of course, the US and EU will give it loans, and it become debt-ridden like Greece. Congratulations, Ukrainian Nazis! :D

[Dál Riata]

The fascists in Western Ukraine didn't respect their country. They turned Kiev, their own capital, into a hellhole. They still haven't started cleaning it up yet. Let it rot, Ukraine will become bankrupt soon. Of course, the US and EU will give it loans, and it become debt-ridden like Greece. Congratulations, Ukrainian Nazis! :D

I'm usually supportive of Putin's Russia and I'm suspicious of possible US/EU involvement in supporting the 'coup' in Ukraine, but I don't think breaking up Ukraine is the answer. I think Ukraine and Russia should be allied sister nations. Some kind of compromise should have been reached between the pro-western and pro-Russian factions. I don't want to see a civil war with Ukrainians and Russians fighting each other.

[Ivan Kramskoï]

I hope there won't be killings between eastern slavs "cousins", they don't seem to consider themselves as brothers anymore.

[Vlach]

The fascists in Western Ukraine didn't respect their country. They turned Kiev, their own capital, into a hellhole. They still haven't started cleaning it up yet. Let it rot, Ukraine will become bankrupt soon. Of course, the US and EU will give it loans, and it become debt-ridden like Greece. Congratulations, Ukrainian Nazis! :D

HAHAHA, you are like a old romanian communist. Last days i have read a old book about a village from Romania and this was wrote in commie period.

The book was good but there was pathetic commie parts like "Mysticism for the past regimes constitute a weapon for human exploitation, but in socialism we fight against mysticism. " :picard2: :rotfl::rotfl:

[RussiaPrussia]

HAHAHA, you are like a old romanian communist. Last days i have read a old book about a village from Romania and this was wrote in commie period.

The book was good but there was pathetic commie parts like "Mysticism for the past regimes constitute a weapon for human exploitation, but in socialism we fight against mysticism. " :picard2: :rotfl::rotfl:

https://downloader.disk.yandex.com/preview/7b687958ee39d5783256844c42451a5a/mpfs/gf3H-kn5Qe8xiTg1JFOn8WaOxgDNjfKmqx4t8e6H2KjlGbOqFhbKGRv Iie-GqsQtX8Yflo7YS1FlFLOFVKVETw%3D%3D?uid=0&filename=communismeasterneuropepng&disposition=inline&hash=&limit=0&content_type=image%2Fpng&size=XXL&crop=0

[Vlach]

https://downloader.disk.yandex.com/preview/7b687958ee39d5783256844c42451a5a/mpfs/gf3H-kn5Qe8xiTg1JFOn8WaOxgDNjfKmqx4t8e6H2KjlGbOqFhbKGRv Iie-GqsQtX8Yflo7YS1FlFLOFVKVETw%3D%3D?uid=0&filename=communismeasterneuropepng&disposition=inline&hash=&limit=0&content_type=image%2Fpng&size=XXL&crop=0

? whats the idea brainwashed boy

[Pure ja]

Crimea is historically part of Russia. It's Russian Speaking and was only "given" to Ukraine in 1954.

Crimea is historically no more part of Russia than Finland or Estonia.

[RussiaPrussia]

? whats the idea brainwashed boy

its western german book

[Annihilus]

Crimea is historically part of Russia. It's Russian Speaking and was only "given" to Ukraine in 1954.

Crimea has been independent for thousands of years before the Ruskies took it, Khazaria ring a bell?

[justme]

Crimea is Ukraine!

[Kiyant]

Crimea is historically part of Russia. It's Russian Speaking and was only "given" to Ukraine in 1954.

If we really look at it it is Russian and Crimean Tatar land but i sure hope the militants leave them alone

[glass]

Crimea is historically no more part of Russia than Finland or Estonia.
Crimea, Estonia and Finland (except swedish south-west) are russian lands

[justme]

If we really look at it it is Russian and Crimean Tatar land but i sure hope the militants leave them alone
Crimea historically belongs to Ukraine and should stay as part of Ukraine.

[Kiyant]

Crimea historically belongs to Ukraine and should stay as part of Ukraine.

Crimea was given to Ukraine because Chrutchev was a Ukrainian not because it is Ukrainian native land most of its natives are Crimean Tatars and Russian anyway

[justme]

Crimea was given to Ukraine because Chrutchev was a Ukrainian not because it is Ukrainian native land most of its natives are Crimean Tatars and Russian anyway

I don't care they shouldn't be independent just to punish Russia.

[Cail]

All regions should have a right to secede from a country they do not want to be a part of.

[Kiyant]

I don't care they shouldn't be independent just to punish Russia.

If you would visit Crimea you would quickly notice that most dislike the Ukrainian "government" in Kiev

[Cail]

I don't care they shouldn't be independent just to punish Russia.
Amazing logic there chief :picard2:. How typical.

[justme]

Amazing logic there chief :picard2:. How typical.
You know I don't really mean it...

[Pure ja]

Crimea, Estonia and Finland (except swedish south-west) are russian lands

Not quite.
There are many who say that Russia actually rightfully belongs to Estonia. :p

[Pure ja]

All regions should have a right to secede from a country they do not want to be a part of.

Yes. But it should be a slow step-by-step process.
At first, as a federation subject.
Then as a confederation member.
And finally as an independent country.
Each of those steps should be 4-8 years long.

[justme]

Not quite.
There are many who say that Russia actually rightfully belongs to Estonia. :p
And some who also say that St Petersburg or Moscow originally belongs to the Baltic people...

[Cail]

Yes. But it should be a slow step-by-step process.
At first, as a federation subject.
Then as a confederation member.
And finally as an independent country.
Each of those steps should be 4-8 years long.

Can't see why it should take that long. Positive referendum vote = immediate political and legal self-governance, followed by a short transition period (1-2 years) to set up all the necessary economical and governmental systems.

[Pure ja]

Can't see why it should take that long. Positive referendum vote = immediate political and legal self-governance, followed by a short transition period (1-2 years) to set up all the necessary economical and governmental systems.

All sides within Ukraine should be given a chance to at least try to cooperate. Even if they eventually become separate states, they will still be neighbours and thus still need to cooperate. There should be at least 2 referendums (referenda?) at each intermediate step. And there will certainly be issues over the borders and who should be eligible to vote.

The possibility to secede should be left available, but it should not be abrupt - it would be a compromise.

[Pure ja]

And some who also say that St Petersburg or Moscow originally belongs to the Baltic people...

St. Peterburg?
Never heard of that.
But I have heard that the baltic peoples also belonged to the baltic-finnics.

[justme]

St. Peterburg?
Never heard of that.
But I have heard that the baltic peoples also belonged to the baltic-finnics.
I don't know i could be wrong or at least confusing it with another Russian City, but I heard that parts of Poland, Belarus and Russia were originally Baltic.
Baltic people even look similar to Finnic people...

[Vesuvian Sky]

Alot of different people have been in the Crimea: 'Cimmerians', Greeks, Scythians, Goths, Huns, Bulgars, Khazars, the state of Kievan Rus', Byzantine Greeks, Kipchaks, Ottoman Turks, Golden Horde Tatars etc. etc.

'Current' demographics from a 2001 census:

Russians: 58.32%
Ukrainians: 24.32%
Crimean Tatars: 12.1%
Belarusians: 1.44%
Tatars: 0.54%
Armenians: 0.43%
Jews: 0.22%
Greeks: 0.15%

[Cail]

I don't know i could be wrong or at least confusing it with another Russian City, but I heard that parts of Poland, Belarus and Russia were originally Baltic.
Baltic people even look similar to Finnic people...

It's not like those Balts were killed or expelled (not more so than with any other tribal migrations cases). Their descendants are Russians/Poles/Belarussians now. Balts and Slavs are related anyways.

[justme]

It's not like those Balts were killed or expelled (not more so than with any other tribal migrations cases). Their descendants are Russians/Poles/Belarussians now. Balts and Slavs are related anyways.
Dunno... But strange how Baltic and Slavic are under the same Indo-European tree.. Yet their language looks sooooo different from each other... My theory is that North Polish, Belarusians and North West Russians are just Slavicised Baltic people...

[Pure ja]

I don't know i could be wrong or at least confusing it with another Russian City, but I heard that parts of Poland, Belarus and Russia were originally Baltic.
Baltic people even look similar to Finnic people...

Even corded ware never reached to St. Petersburg, to my limited knowledge.
The closest corded ware region was Vadja land. Narva belonged to Vadja land, the local culture in Narva has developed from the mesolithic to the metal ages with no sign of notable immigration. And Vadja lands did not reach St. Petersburg area.
On the Finnish coast the closest corded ware was probably the region of Virolahti, with strong ties to the Estonian Viru county area (to the west of Narva).

[Pure ja]

Dunno... But strange how Baltic and Slavic are under the same Indo-European tree.. Yet their language looks sooooo different from each other... My theory is that North Polish, Belarusians and North West Russians are just Slavicised Baltic people...

You have to draw the line somewhere, where there was no major baltic component and the switch was from baltic-finnic to north-west russian. You might as well use the corded ware border separation for that, even though half of the eastern corded ware was actually just indo-european-influenced finnic (those finnics who bothered to practice pastoralism and agriculture at the time). The area of setos (at least the central and northern part of the Velikaya watershed) and Adsele setos/võros are not considered as part of the corded ware region. And the region to the east of them (Lake Ilmen) neither.

[Hweinlant]

Crimean Tatars (ethnic, native Crimeans) in demonstration at Crimea right now. They are sporting Crimean Tatar flag and Ukrainian flags.
http://espreso.tv/stream

Tensions are high. Tatars don't want their country to secede from Ukraine.

[Loki]

I'm usually supportive of Putin's Russia and I'm suspicious of possible US/EU involvement in supporting the 'coup' in Ukraine, but I don't think breaking up Ukraine is the answer. I think Ukraine and Russia should be allied sister nations. Some kind of compromise should have been reached between the pro-western and pro-Russian factions. I don't want to see a civil war with Ukrainians and Russians fighting each other.

Yeah, but will happen now is that Ukraine will join NATO, and the US will establish military bases in Ukraine. It's all very provocative on Russia. Russia will respond by placing nukes in Kaliningrad, and bingo! We have a new Cold War.

[Loki]

Crimean Tatars (ethnic, native Crimeans) in demonstration at Crimea right now. They are sporting Crimean Tatar flag and Ukrainian flags.
http://espreso.tv/stream

Tensions are high. Tatars don't want their country to secede from Ukraine.

Crimean Tatars are a small minority in Crimea.

[Pure ja]

Yeah, but will happen now is that Ukraine will join NATO, and the US will establish military bases in Ukraine. It's all very provocative on Russia. Russia will respond by placing nukes in Kaliningrad, and bingo! We have a new Cold War.

Nukes are already in Kaliningrad, bingo or no bingo.
And Ukraine is still very far from joining NATO.
And the mere existence of independent Ukraine is very provocative on Russia.

[Loki]

Nukes are already in Kaliningrad, bingo or no bingo.


Proof?

[justme]

Nukes are already in Kaliningrad, bingo or no bingo.
And Ukraine is still very far from joining NATO.
And the mere existence of independent Ukraine is very provocative on Russia.
Kaliningrad is German-Baltic land stolen by Russia.

[justme]

Tatars are not even Turks they are just Slavs who are Muslim just like Bosniaks nothing else, they aren't even real Turks but Slavs mixed with baltic who are just forced to claim they are Turks because they are Muslim, nothing else, if Tatars want to be with Ukraine and not Russia then they should be allowed to.

[RussiaPrussia]

Crimean Tatars (ethnic, native Crimeans) in demonstration at Crimea right now. They are sporting Crimean Tatar flag and Ukrainian flags.
http://espreso.tv/stream

Tensions are high. Tatars don't want their country to secede from Ukraine.

they are fools, they are played out by ukrainians so russians and tatarians fight while these western fachist take over the country. If crimea would go independent tatarian could be national language too and many other rights.
Its always better to be 10-20% in a country than being 0.5-2%

Turks were always bad at math

[RussiaPrussia]

Tatars are not even Turks they are just Slavs who are Muslim just like Bosniaks nothing else, they aren't even real Turks but Slavs mixed with baltic who are just forced to claim they are Turks because they are Muslim, nothing else, if Tatars want to be with Ukraine and not Russia then they should be allowed to.

i agree, but still they are fooled by ukrainians.

[justme]

i agree, but still they are fooled by ukrainians.
I don't think so... They seem to be very pro-Ukrainian... Ukraine must obvious be treating them with more respect...

[LightHouse89]

They live in Ukraine. They should respect the country they live in.

The truth is Russia has always felt it owned Ukraine this is why they want Russia out. I hope the National Socialist party of Ukraine rules. I dont trust those entrusted with ruling.

[RussiaPrussia]

I don't think so... They seem to be very pro-Ukrainian... Ukraine must obvious be treating them with more respect...

nope, the are anti russian thats the difference

[Kiyant]

Tatars are not even Turks they are just Slavs who are Muslim just like Bosniaks nothing else, they aren't even real Turks but Slavs mixed with baltic who are just forced to claim they are Turks because they are Muslim, nothing else, if Tatars want to be with Ukraine and not Russia then they should be allowed to.

Wrong Tatars are Turkic like everyone else like Anatolian Turks mixed obviously.
But Tatars are still Turkic

[Kiyant]

nope, the are anti russian thats the difference

Well after the deportation and their experience them being more friendly to Russia is quite normal dont you think?

[RussiaPrussia]

Well after the deportation and their experience them being more friendly to Russia is quite normal dont you think?

they just got what was coming to them after colonizing slavic people under their barbarian mongolian rule over eastern europe. But this is the past, they should be smart and demand an independent country together with russians.

[Kiyant]

they just got what was coming to them after colonizing slavic people under their barbarian mongolian rule over eastern europe. But this is the past, they should be smart and demand an independent country together with russians.

First Tatars are not Mongolian second Russians on Crimea are aggressive against them because they came "late" because of the deportation there were several attacks on crimean Tatars by Russians for no reason if Putin would make it clear that this isnt acceptable crimeans Tatars would be more open about such an idea

[RussiaPrussia]

First Tatars are not Mongolian second Russians on Crimea are aggressive against them because they came "late" because of the deportation there were several attacks on crimean Tatars by Russians for no reason if Putin would make it clear that this isnt acceptable crimeans Tatars would be more open about such an idea

they should have a brain in the first place, its always better to be treated in a country where you are 20% instead 0.5%. If ukrainian nazis demand banning russian language how you think they will treat turkic people later one?

[Kiyant]

they should have a brain in the first place, its always better to be treated in a country where you are 20% instead 0.5%. If ukrainian nazis demand banning russian language how you think they will treat turkic people later one?

Well at the moment both options suck because Russians in Crimea arent better (for example the russians wanted to abolish all crimean Tatar organisations)

[RussiaPrussia]

Well at the moment both options suck because Russians in Crimea arent better (for example the russians wanted to abolish all crimean Tatar organisations)

tatars arent better, look how they protesting now for fachist ukraine who using against the russians.

[justme]

Wrong Tatars are Turkic like everyone else like Anatolian Turks mixed obviously.
But Tatars are still Turkic
Wrong Tatars are Slavic! Not Turks.

[Kiyant]

tatars arent better, look how they protesting now for fachist ukraine who using against the russians.

So you mean they should protest for russians who want to ban their organisations and attack them?
Come on man i dont dislike Russians or Russia i also dislike whats happening in Ukraine but this is ridicilous

[Kiyant]

Wrong Tatars are Slavic! Not Turks.

No they are not

[RussiaPrussia]

No they are not

tatarian and russian halogroup almost identical

[Kiyant]

tatarian and russian halogroup almost identical

And?
They are still much more mongoloid then Russians which proves their heritage (Turkic)

[RussiaPrussia]

So you mean they should protest for russians who want to ban their organisations and attack them?
Come on man i dont dislike Russians or Russia i also dislike whats happening in Ukraine but this is ridicilous

and why they are able to ban their organisations? Because they are 0.5% in Ukraine while russians are more.

[RussiaPrussia]

And?
They are still much more mongoloid then Russians which proves their heritage (Turkic)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars#Tatar_Athletes

current Tatars

[Kiyant]

and why they are able to ban their organisations? Because they are 0.5% in Ukraine while russians are more.

Russians wanted to abolish it but Ukrainians were against it which makes Ukrainians look more favourable in the eyes of the crimean tatars

[justme]

No they are not
Yes they are, Tatars are nothing more then a bunch of Slavs who have been Turkifed through culture and language, they don't even look like Turks, but Slavs, jut google then they look pure Slavic who have only been Turkified by language and culture.

[Kiyant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars#Tatar_Athletes

current Tatars

All of them show mongoloid admixture and they speak a Kyptchak Turkic language

[RussiaPrussia]

Russians wanted to abolish it but Ukrainians were against it which makes Ukrainians look more favourable in the eyes of the crimean tatars

they make it to undermine russians. They want that no side wins and fights. Also where do you get this information youre just stating without source backing that up what youre saying.

[Kiyant]

Yes they are, Tatars are nothing more then a bunch of Slavs who have been Turkifed through culture and language, they don't even look like Turks, but Slavs, jut google then they look pure Slavic who have only been Turkified by language and culture.

Yeah we Turkified 100 million people in the world to think they are Turkic or Turkic descendant :picard1:

[Kiyant]

they make it to undermine russians. They want that no side wins and fights. Also where do you get this information youre just stating without source backing that up what youre saying.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqzwWqSAR1U

[justme]

Yeah we Turkified 100 million people in the world to think they are Turkic or Turkic descendant :picard1:
Tatars are only roughly nearly around 2 million, as far as I'm concerned they show more Baltid-Slavic facial features rather then Turkic.

[Kiyant]

Tatars are only roughly nearly around 2 million, as far as I'm concerned they show more Baltid-Slavic rather then Turkic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars#Tatar_Athletes
There are over 7 million Tatars and when we count crimean Tatars its 10 millions so no it isnt true

[RussiaPrussia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqzwWqSAR1U

made by aljazeera whos mad that quatarian gas gets outbid by russian gas

[RussiaPrussia]

Tatars are only roughly nearly around 2 million, as far as I'm concerned they show more Baltid-Slavic facial features rather then Turkic.

turks will claim they were always white of course

[Sarmatian]

Wrong Tatars are Slavic! Not Turks.

Kazan Tatars are almost identical to East Slavs because they've been included into Muscovy during rule of Ivan the Terrible and were loyal part of Empire ever since. But here we're talking about Crimean Tatars that were included to Russian Empire about two centuries later and have been mistreated by Stalin. So these are quite careful in their sentiments towards any Slavs and prefer to keep distance and maintain their unique subculture.

[denz]

Tatars are only roughly nearly around 2 million, as far as I'm concerned they show more Baltid-Slavic facial features rather then Turkic.

I m unsure that you know any of them, believe me, they are Turk with very well balanced culture. Once, one called me i m not pure Turk ;)

[Kiyant]

made by aljazeera whos made that quatarian gas gets outbid by russian gas

And this isnt the only thing you can ask sarmatian or some others around there are clashes between crimean tatars and russians in crimea

[RussiaPrussia]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Szigetvar_1566.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Departure_Herald-Detail.jpg

one is chinese one is about turks

[Kiyant]

Kazan Tatars are almost identical to East Slavs because they've been included into Muscovy during rule of Ivan the Terrible and were loyal part of Empire ever since. But here we're talking about Crimean Tatars that were included to Russian Empire about two centuries later and have been mistreated by Stalin. So these are quite careful in their sentiments towards any Slavs and prefer to keep distance and maintain their unique subculture.

For example i have in my family some Russian/Ahiska couples and if their children would do the same for some generations they would also look quite slavic/Russian

[justme]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars#Tatar_Athletes
There are over 7 million Tatars and when we count crimean Tatars its 10 millions so no it isnt true
They are look very very Slavic to me... Even more Slavic then Slavs who live in East Russia.

[Kiyant]

They are look very very Slavic to me... Even more Slavic then Slavs who live in East Russia.

I dont think so.....

[Sarmatian]

They are look very very Slavic to me... Even more Slavic then Slavs who live in East Russia.

Seriously you should just stop talking on the matters you know very little about.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

http://i.imgur.com/nvtrBAW.png
Erol Evgin?

[Sarmatian]

Russians wanted to abolish it but Ukrainians were against it which makes Ukrainians look more favourable in the eyes of the crimean tatars

If Tatars will get guarantees from Russian authorities about their rights as minorities will they side with Russia?

[justme]

Seriously you should just stop talking on the matters you know very little about.
Maybe I should but as far as I'm concerned most Muslims in Poland Russia and ect like Tatars Goran Muslim Bulgars and so on people are just Slavs, maybe some Tatars are Turks but a lot of them especially those from Poland and Ukraine look very Slavic.

[Kiyant]

If Tatars will get guarantees from Russian authorities about their rights as minorities will they side with Russia?

I think yes if they see those svoboda nazis
For example many Ahiskas hated Russians because of cossak harassement and stalin but after cossaks stopped it we are now quite favourable to you

[Sarmatian]

Maybe I should but as far as I'm concerned most Muslims in Poland Russia and ect like Tatars Goran Muslim Bulgars and so on people are just Slavs, maybe some Tatars are Turks but a lot of them especially those from Poland and Ukraine look very Slavic.

Those you're talking about live among Slavs for quite a long time and intermarried with them hence the looks. Crimean Tatars were living on isolated peninsula and had no Slavs to mix with until relatively recently. Either way all these Tatars were Turkic originally and even if their appearance had changed over time their culture/language is still the same.

For that reason you can't really compare them to Bosnians because in this case it's quite opposite: originally Slavic people adopted Turkic culture through converting to their religion.

Also Slavs are those that speak a Slavic language. Tatars speak Turkic languages so they can't be called Slavs no matter how they look.

[RussiaPrussia]

I think yes if they see those svoboda nazis
For example many Ahiskas hated Russians because of cossak harassement and stalin but after cossaks stopped it we are now quite favourable to you

tatars and russians need unite against nazi ideology

[Kiyant]

tatars and russians need unite against nazi ideology

This is something i support (you know what Ahiskas are?)

[RussiaPrussia]

This is something i support (you know what Ahiskas are?)

not really tell me

[Kiyant]

not really tell me

Caucasus Turks basically also most live in Kazakhstan and in Russia

[LightHouse89]

I think yes if they see those svoboda nazis
For example many Ahiskas hated Russians because of cossak harassement and stalin but after cossaks stopped it we are now quite favourable to you

I hope fascism wins.......Caucasians need to be fascist its the coolest style around. I mean otherwise you will end up like America with a black president....look at what he has done to our country and its going on 8 years......no body deserves that.

[LightHouse89]

They are look very very Slavic to me... Even more Slavic then Slavs who live in East Russia.

white powder!

[RussiaPrussia]

I hope fascism wins.......Caucasians need to be fascist its the coolest style around. I mean otherwise you will end up like America with a black president....look at what he has done to our country and its going on 8 years......no body deserves that.

fachism killed more european people than any other ideology

[Pure ja]

Crimea was given to Ukraine because Chrutchev was a Ukrainian not because it is Ukrainian native land most of its natives are Crimean Tatars and Russian anyway

Crimean natives aren't russian. If russians were natives in Crimea, russians would also be natives in Alaska - which is absurd.

[Pure ja]

Proof?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-russia-missiles-idUSBRE9BF0W020131216

(Reuters) - Russia has deployed Iskander missiles with a range of hundreds of kilometers in its Baltic Sea exclave of Kaliningrad, which borders NATO members Poland and Lithuania, the pro-Kremlin newspaper Izvestia reported on Monday.

The missiles have been in place "for some time," according to Izvestia's source, a high-level Defence Ministry official it did not name. Another unnamed military source said they were deployed about 18 months ago.

The Izvestia report followed a story in German newspaper Bild on Saturday that said secret satellite imagery showed Iskander-M missiles stationed near the Polish border.

http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131219/185723285/Putin-Says-No-Iskanders-Deployed-in-Kaliningrad.html

So, there are radar images which place Iskanders to Kaliningrad, there were initial confirmations from Moscow, but later the depoyment was denied by Putin and other RF officials. Which to believe? Radar images or the word of Kremlin? The answer should be obvious.

[Not a Cop]

Crimean natives aren't russian. If russians were natives in Crimea, russians would also be natives in Alaska - which is absurd.

Up to your logic Estonians must leave Estonia for Ural

[Pure ja]

Maybe I should but as far as I'm concerned most Muslims in Poland Russia and ect like Tatars Goran Muslim Bulgars and so on people are just Slavs, maybe some Tatars are Turks but a lot of them especially those from Poland and Ukraine look very Slavic.

Has it ever occured to you that many of them might be uralic?

[Xenomorph]

I hope fascism wins.......Caucasians need to be fascist its the coolest style around. I mean otherwise you will end up like America with a black president....look at what he has done to our country and its going on 8 years......no body deserves that.

I highly doubt Ukraine is gonna have a black president any time soon.

[Pure ja]

Up to your logic Estonians must leave Estonia for Ural

How so?
Estonians are the descendants of epipaleolithic swiderians.
The main dialectal and racial divide of estonians follows the Allerod shoreline of Estonia.

EDIT. If anything, we should go back to Lithuania and Prussia and Pripjat.

[LightHouse89]

fachism killed more european people than any other ideology

In your perverted mind hahahahaha Okay Ivan.

[LightHouse89]

I highly doubt Ukraine is gonna have a black president any time soon.

soon, the British already have a black monarchy so I am sure it will happen soon.

[Xenomorph]

soon, the British already have a black monarchy so I am sure it will happen soon.

They don't look too black to me:

http://www.greatdreams.com/blog-2013/british-royal-family1.jpg

[LightHouse89]

at least she isn't ugly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2302258/Emma-McQuiston-How-I-beat-snobs-Britains-black-marchioness.html

[Sarmatian]

Crimean natives aren't russian. If russians were natives in Crimea, russians would also be natives in Alaska - which is absurd.

Following your logic Crimea have no natives. Crimean Tatars actually came to Crimea from somewhere else, they are remains of Golden Horde. And before arrival of Mongols Crimea was populated by Goths, Scythians, Khazars and Slavs.

[glass]

it seems administrative buildinds in Simferopol, Crimea capital, have been captured
3 died in yesterday's clashes

[Sarmatian]

it seems administrative buildinds in Simferopol, Crimea capital, have been captured
3 died in yesterday's clashes

Captured by who?

[glass]

Captured by who?
The Russian flag had been raised over both buildings in the capital, Simferopol.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26364891

[StonyArabia]

Tatars are not Slavs, they have little conncetion with them. If you are talking about the Crimean Tatars they are a Turko-Mongol ethnic group. In fact they are mixed of Turkic and Mongol and obviously with the people around them including Slavs, Greeks, and Caucasians. There not Turkified and they differ from Anatolian Turks. As for Kazan Tatars it's true they somewhat look similar to Russian, but they are intermixed with some Finno-Ugric groups around them, and Slavs, and they have higher amount of Mongoloid admixture, since the Mongols seemed to have played in their recent ethnogenesis, when they adopted the Kipchak tongue, as they spoke Oghur Turkic before. I think they are people who have their own ethnic identity. The comparison is false with the Bosinaks for a variety of reasons.

[blogen]

Tatars are not Slavs, they have little conncetion with them. If you are talking about the Crimean Tatars they are a Turko-Mongol ethnic group. In fact they are mixed of Turkic and Mongol and obviously with the people around them including Slavs, Greeks, and Caucasians. There not Turkified and they differ from Anatolian Turks. As for Kazan Tatars it's true they somewhat look similar to Russian, but they are intermixed with some Finno-Ugric groups around them, and Slavs, and they have higher amount of Mongoloid admixture, since the Mongols seemed to have played in their recent ethnogenesis, when they adopted the Kipchak tongue, as they spoke Oghur Turkic before. I think they are people who have their own ethnic identity. The comparison is false with the Bosinaks for a variety of reasons.

For example the racial composition of the Bulgarian Tatars (near Ruse: Vetovo, Goljamo Vranovo, Slivo Polje, Semerdjievo, Smirnenski):

turanid: 46%
pamirid: 13%
mongoloid*: 8% (mostly Europo-Mongoloids with dominant Mongoloid tratis)
mediterranid: 6% (some of them are Europo-Mongoloids)
taurid and alpinoid: 8% (some of them are Europo-Mongoloids)
undefinable: 19% (mostly Europo-Mongoloids)

sample size: 243 (163 men and 80 women)

Spape of the Zygomatic bones: mens/womens
forward-projecting: 90,1%/88,2% (Europo-Mongoloids) 70+
rounded: 6,1%/11,8% (Caucasoids)
forward narrowed: 3,8%/0% (Caucasoids)

source: Henkey Gyula: Rusze-környéki tatárok embertani vizsgálata; Anthropologia Hungarica, 1972 (http://publication.nhmus.hu/anthropologia/cikkreszletes.php?idhoz=3527)

[RussiaPrussia]

In your perverted mind hahahahaha Okay Ivan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owXQuvUNhZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaheUmowPDk

[RussiaPrussia]

In your perverted mind hahahahaha Okay Ivan.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48EMEIm50pY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXpZR7Pi9IY

[Äijä]

Captured by who?

Real militia or special forces masked as such, Russian marines support the operation and holds the roads outside town.

[Hweinlant]

Captured by who?

Very good question. Another would be the presence of APCs near Simferepol. Are they Ukrainian or Russian ?

[Hweinlant]

Real militia or special forces masked as such, Russian marines support the operation and holds the roads outside town.

Or ex-Berkut loyal to Yanukovych . I dont think there is any verification about those APCs. They seem to be unmarked, could be Ukrainian as well.

http://espreso.tv/image/data/news/2014/02/btr__crimea_1_investigator.org.ua.jpg

[Hweinlant]

Occupiers of Crimean Parliament are ex-Berkut. They are not from Russia.

[Hercus Monte]

does this mean Russia is allowed to take control of any country with a Russian minority?
lets hope someone sends a memo to Germany, last time I checked 7% of German citizens are native russian speakers.

[glass]

does this mean Russia is allowed to take control of any country with a Russian minority?
lets hope someone sends a memo to Germany, last time I checked 7% of German citizens are native russian speakers.
that is 5.6m native russian speakers...

[Arianiti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqzwWqSAR1U

Unfortunate are those who expect to see any good from those who took their homes, or from russia.

[Arianiti]

that is 5.6m native russian speakers...



So what Ukraine has around 50 million people, and those 5 million russians must be invisible.


Russia should mind its own business and not put its nose everywhere.

[Hercus Monte]

that is 5.6m native russian speakers...
not really the point.

[glass]

not really the point.
doesnt it look like too much?

[blogen]

So what Ukraine has around 50 million people, and those 5 million russians must be invisible.
Russia should mind its own business and not put its nose everywhere.

The number of the Russian native speakers is 15 million and half of them is ethnic Russian. And only 55% of the Ukrainian citizens used the Ukrainian language. So technically half of Ukraine is Russian. This is a Serbo-Croatian situation without religious difference.

[Arianiti]

The number of the Russian native speakers is 15 million and half of them is ethnic Russian. And only 55% of the Ukrainian citizens used the Ukrainian language. So technically half of Ukraine is Russian. This is a Serbo-Croatian situation without religious difference.


I do not think its the same situation and I believe that the figure u gave is exaggerated.

No party will benefit if two people go to war. :)

[blogen]

I do not think its the same situation and I believe that the figure u gave is exaggerated.
No party will benefit if two people go to war. :)

This is the official statistics.

[Hercus Monte]

doesnt it look like too much?
not really, remember DDR?

This is the official statistics.
about 17% of ukranians consider themselves to be russians. not more.

[LightHouse89]

Tatars are not Slavs, they have little conncetion with them. If you are talking about the Crimean Tatars they are a Turko-Mongol ethnic group. In fact they are mixed of Turkic and Mongol and obviously with the people around them including Slavs, Greeks, and Caucasians. There not Turkified and they differ from Anatolian Turks. As for Kazan Tatars it's true they somewhat look similar to Russian, but they are intermixed with some Finno-Ugric groups around them, and Slavs, and they have higher amount of Mongoloid admixture, since the Mongols seemed to have played in their recent ethnogenesis, when they adopted the Kipchak tongue, as they spoke Oghur Turkic before. I think they are people who have their own ethnic identity. The comparison is false with the Bosinaks for a variety of reasons.

True but they do by now have European admixture. I have seen some Tatars and they look like regular Russians/Europeans to me. Many with an Asian look to me look like Eurasians and in some instances like Turks. What about Cossacks? They are the strangest group from eastern europe but westerners find them the most fascinating? Are they related to Turks or Caucasus peoples?

[LightHouse89]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48EMEIm50pY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXpZR7Pi9IY

Crimes commited against Communist terrorists not actual Europeans or Eurasian peoples. They infact join the German war machine to go against Boshevik scum. The Germans opened their Mosques and Churches so thats strange they open some of their cultural institutions and then turn around and execute everybody? More Soveit Bolshevik lies.

[RussiaPrussia]

Crimes commited against Communist terrorists not actual Europeans or Eurasian peoples. They infact join the German war machine to go against Boshevik scum. The Germans opened their Mosques and Churches so thats strange they open some of their cultural institutions and then turn around and execute everybody? More Soveit Bolshevik lies.

yeah thats why 27 million soviets die from no where, racist scum

[LightHouse89]

yeah thats why 27 million soviets die from no where, racist scum

I am not racist but just a Fascist is anything. Communism is for the weak. Anyway no one was murdered just another Lie created by cultural marxists in the west and leninist marxist in the east. These lies were even further brought up with the use of Hollywood and Soviet Propaganda all of which was supported by oligarchs and monarchies everywhere. So go spread your lies about fascism eslewhere Bolshevik heathen.

[blogen]

not really, remember DDR?

about 17% of ukranians consider themselves to be russians. not more.

But the half country prefer the Russian language and political orientation. There are not sharp lines between the Russians and the Ukrainians ethnically.

[glass]

not really, remember DDR?

native language means first language right?
sure aged eastern germans speak some russian but they are german native speakers.

[Proto-Shaman]

26.02.2014
Crimean Tatar protesters clash with pro-Russian demonstrators in Simferopol:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?116822-Crimean-Tatar-protesters-clash-with-pro-Russian-demonstrators-in-Simferopol

[Hercus Monte]

But the half country prefer the Russian language and political orientation. There are not sharp lines between the Russians and the Ukrainians ethnically.
prefer the language and political orientation? do explain.


native language means first language right?
sure aged eastern germans speak some russian but they are german native speakers.according to german government statistics they are native russian speakers.

[blogen]

prefer the language and political orientation? do explain.
according to german government statistics they are native russian speakers.

They speak in Russian, they use the Russian language in their everyday life and in home and the Russian political and economical orientation are favoured in the politics. Ukraine is two country in the reality. The rich steppic agrarian and highly industrialized New Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya) and the poor woodland of Galizia, Volhinia and Podolia with Kiev, the real and probably the only Ukraine:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Ukr_elections_2012_multimandate_okruhs.png

[Hercus Monte]

But the half country prefer the Russian language and political orientation. There are not sharp lines between the Russians and the Ukrainians ethnically.


They speak in Russian, they use the Russian language in their everyday life and in home and the Russian political and economical orientation are favoured in the politics. Ukraine is two country in the reality. The rich steppic agrarian and highly industrialized New Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya) and the poor woodland of Galizia, Volhinia and Podolia with Kiev, the real and probably the only Ukraine:


language doesn't dictate nationality, there are many native russian speakers in maidan and the opposition.
klitschko being the most famous example of a native russian speaker who conciders himself Ukrainian.

[blogen]

language doesn't dictate nationality, there are many native russian speakers in maidan and the opposition.
klitschko being the most famous example of a native russian speaker who conciders himself Ukrainian.

But we do not talk about these exceptions. The Ukrainian is an ethnic group only in Western Ukraine and a political concept without ethnic content (language, culture, etc.) in Eastern Ukraine.

[Pure ja]

Following your logic Crimea have no natives. Crimean Tatars actually came to Crimea from somewhere else, they are remains of Golden Horde. And before arrival of Mongols Crimea was populated by Goths, Scythians, Khazars and Slavs.

Yes, but crimean tatars are the closest to natives in Crimea. Others fall short even more.

[Hercus Monte]

But we do not talk about these exceptions. The Ukrainian is an ethnic group only in Western Ukraine and a political concept without ethnic content (language, culture, etc.) in Eastern Ukraine.
not that true. I would expect the division to be closer to 40-35% being oriented towards the east, this presumption is shared by Ukrainians I know.

[Proto-Shaman]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1654327_788001064561300_1408346991_n.jpg

[Sarmatian]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1654327_788001064561300_1408346991_n.jpg

Not really.

Duchy of Muscovy and Crimean Khanate had an open and pretty honest confrontation for a few centuries. Tatars lost fair and square, as result Crimea got annexed by Russian Empire in 18th century and belongs to Russians since then.

And to be fair you have little reasons to complain about actual Russians. Yes part of Tatars migrated when Russia came to Crimea but it wasn't because Russians forced them away, it was their own choice. Those who decided to stay managed quite well until Stalin decided to move them.

In any case today Tatars have two choices: either accept Russians as part of Crimea and make alliance with them or try to fight against them. The question is do you have balls as big as Chechens do and are you ready to sacrifice numerous lives in a fight you cannot win just to prove your point?

[Pure ja]

Not really.

Duchy of Muscovy and Crimean Khanate had an open and pretty honest confrontation for a few centuries. Tatars lost fair and square, as result Crimea got annexed by Russian Empire in 18th century and belongs to Russians since then.

And to be fair you have little reasons to complain about actual Russians. Yes part of Tatars migrated when Russia came to Crimea but it wasn't because Russians forced them away, it was their own choice. Those who decided to stay managed quite well until Stalin decided to move them.

In any case today Tatars have two choices: either accept Russians as part of Crimea and make alliance with them or try to fight against them. The question is do you have balls as big as Chechens do and are you ready to sacrifice numerous lives in a fight you cannot win just to prove your point?

Spoken as a true occupant in the 19th century fashion.

[Loki]

26.02.2014
Crimean Tatar protesters clash with pro-Russian demonstrators in Simferopol:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?116822-Crimean-Tatar-protesters-clash-with-pro-Russian-demonstrators-in-Simferopol

They make up only 10% of the population of Crimea.

[Sarmatian]

Spoken as a true occupant in the 19th century fashion.

Do you know Crimean Tatars with assistance from Ottomans pillaged and burned Moscow? And I'm not even talking what they were doing on yearly basis in the areas between Moscow and Crimea. At one point they were one step away from totally destroying Russia. It was an open war with no chance for a peace until one side dominates over other. Russia happened to come at top, I can't change that fact even if I'd wanted to, deal with it.

It's all ended over 200 years ago, they have no claim on the territory but nobody kicking them out today. Time to move on and concentrate on taking care of current affairs.

[Proto-Shaman]

They make up only 10% of the population of Crimea.
12% to be honest. But the last population cencus was 13 years ago. Now, we should be ~20%. 300 years ago Tatars were the majority on Crimea with 95%:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Crimea#Historical_population_statistics

[Pure ja]

Do you know Crimean Tatars with assistance from Ottomans pillaged and burned Moscow? And I'm not even talking what they were doing on yearly basis in the areas between Moscow and Crimea. At one point they were one step away from totally destroying Russia. It was an open war with no chance for a peace until one side dominates over other. Russia happened to come at top, I can't change that fact even if I'd wanted to, deal with it.

It's all ended over 200 years ago, they have no claim on the territory but nobody kicking them out today. Time to move on and concentrate on taking care of current affairs.

If it is all over, why don't you give the land back to them and move on, er, move back to where you came from?

[Sarmatian]

If it is all over, why don't you give the land back to them and move on, er, move back to where you came from?

Why Russia should do that? It's won and took the land. It wasn't even conquest, it was annexation of territory of already dismantled state. It's all happened 200 years ago and Russia have all the rights on the land.

And it's not like in Chechnya where Russia came to people who never bothered it. Crimean Tatars were aggressive raiders and serious threat to very existence of Russians and all Slavs. In some way they got what they were asking for.

[Pure ja]

Why Russia should do that? It's won and took the land. It wasn't even conquest, it was annexation of territory of already dismantled state. It's all happened 200 years ago and Russia have all the rights on the land.


There are no such rights. The land belongs to the previous residents. Whatever conquest, occupation nor annexation can not change that.




And it's not like in Chechnya where Russia came to people who never bothered it. Crimean Tatars were aggressive raiders and serious threat to very existence of Russians and all Slavs. In some way they got what they were asking for.

Again, that is no excuse and does not give any right over the land.

[Sarmatian]

There are no such rights. The land belongs to the previous residents. Whatever conquest, occupation nor annexation can not change that.

:picard2:

Do you realize Tatars conquered the land themselves a few centuries earlier? So since by your logic it should belong to 'previous residents' Tatars have no rights for this land too.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Tatars are not even Turks they are just Slavs who are Muslim just like Bosniaks nothing else, they aren't even real Turks but Slavs mixed with baltic who are just forced to claim they are Turks because they are Muslim, nothing else, if Tatars want to be with Ukraine and not Russia then they should be allowed to.

Tatars are more like Turkified Scythians.

While Russians are more like proper Slav, Slavicized Scythian, Slavicized Balt & Slavicized Finno-Ugric!

[Ultra]

There are no such rights. The land belongs to the previous residents. Whatever conquest, occupation nor annexation can not change that.




Again, that is no excuse and does not give any right over the land.
In reality there are no such things as "rights" which are imposed by pen and paper, only by sword. Hehe. :naughty2:

[Pure ja]

In reality there are no such things as "rights" which are imposed by pen and paper, only by sword. Hehe. :naughty2:

Quite the contrary.
Might only makes might, not right.

[Pure ja]

:picard2:

Do you realize Tatars conquered the land themselves a few centuries earlier? So since by your logic it should belong to 'previous residents' Tatars have no rights for this land too.

So who and where are those earlier inhabitants? Certainly not russians.

[Sarmatian]

So who and where are those earlier inhabitants? Certainly not russians.

Before Tatars there were Goths, Greeks, Scythians and Slavs. But latter can't be called Russians because Russia as unified entity didn't existed at the time.

[Dál Riata]

Give Crimea back to the Cimmerians! :thumb001:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdYd_RdLCQ

[Hercus Monte]

Before Tatars there were Goths, Greeks, Scythians and Slavs. But latter can't be called Russians because Russia as unified entity didn't existed at the time.
Russian's only started existing in the 17th century. :rolleyes:

[Sarmatian]

Russian's only started existing in the 17th century. :rolleyes:

It's only somewhat true, they existed before but were called different names.

[d3cimat3d]

Originally Crimean Tatars were mostly a Mongoloid people, remnants of Golden Horde with some Kipchak elements but through years of kidnapping Russians, Ukrainians and Poles they mixed with their slaves, then later they mixed with the customers (Ottoman people) who purchased their slaves..... So what we have now is actually only something like 1/3 original Crim Tatar, 1/3 rape victim, 1/3 Turkish.

Of course I should show proof for my claims so here you go:

http://i35.tinypic.com/16hq1t.jpg

http://magnusducatus.blogspot.com/2012/09/behind-curtains-mdlp-world-22-showcase.html

In the early 1600's the Crim Tatar physical appearance was described by a French merchant and he said they were very easy to tell apart from Ukrainians and they looked very oriental, unlike much of today's Crim Tatars who are more Near-Eastern or Slavic looking, obviously their original element has dissolved and they are not much more indigenous to Crimea than anyone else.

Crimean Tatars are the product of the sex trade. Around 3 million Poles, Russians and Ukrainians were abducted by Tatars then sold to the Ottoman ports in Crimea, and then from bazaars in Turkey sold deeper into the Middle-East and lost forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean-Nogai_raids_into_East_Slavic_lands

In a way this still continues today, women are lured with the promise of work to Italy and Turkey and never come back, while later they can be found in some alleyway giving old men happy endings......... But really it's no laughing matter.

Anyway the earliest and most indigenous Crimeans were a Circassian sub-tribe (Tauri).


I hope there will be a war, im kinda bored:p

Yes the pathetic lives of most humans lacks any kind of real excitement, so humanity gets its drama fix off such conflicts. I think that's why this is getting so much media coverage.

[justme]

So who and where are those earlier inhabitants? Certainly not russians.
Cimmerians did originally but then the Scythians pushed them towards antolia. Slavs and Tatars came later.

[Hercus Monte]

It's only somewhat true, they existed before but were called different names.
as separate ethnicities you mean.

[Sarmatian]

as separate ethnicities you mean.

I'm not sure if Rus principalities can be defined as separate ethnicities. Culturally and linguistically they were definitely same. Even when some Rus knyaz would capture a town of any other Rus principality there were strict rules against mistreatment of local population due to them being same people. There were rare instances of the rule being breached because of various reasons but the general opinion was that all Rus people are one same ethnicity be it Kiev or Great Novgorod. A knyaz breaching the non-looting rule was risking to lose support of even his own men. In the mean time looting a Polish or Volga-Bulgarian town wasn't a problem at all.

The final split of Rus people into Russians and other ethnicities happened due to domination of Orthodoxy in Muscovy and surrounding areas and adoption of Catholicism by others under influence of Polish-Lithuania and Hungary.

[justme]

as separate ethnicities you mean.
Slavs don't even know were they originated themselves one thing for sure is that it wasn't Poland, history says Slavs moved to Poland and Balkans during the 6century AD. They most likely came from venedi (present day Russia and Belarus) but then people are saying venedi are proto-Baltic... More likely Slavs and Balts are related as both came from venedi. I actually think that Scythians were Slavs.

[Proto-Shaman]

Ukrainian conflict by Crimean-Tatar point of view:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45091&d=1393892179
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45090&d=1393892179
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45089&d=1393892179
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45088&d=1393892179
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45087&d=1393892179
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45086&d=1393892179
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45096&d=1393892215
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45095&d=1393892215
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45094&d=1393892215
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45093&d=1393892215
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45092&d=1393892215

[Sky earth]

It's only somewhat true, they existed before but were called different names.

Crimean Tatars are the earliest inhabitans and the native people of Crimea. Herodotus describes the Tauri people in the antiquity. The Tauri people had the same lifestyle as the Crimean Tatars once. He wrote that the Tauri lived from wars and plundering. Of which ethnic group in the modern Crimean Peninsula does this remind you? The word Crimea itself is of Turkic origin

[Proto-Shaman]

Originally Crimean Tatars were mostly a Mongoloid people
Almost impossible.


Anyway the earliest and most indigenous Crimeans were a Circassian sub-tribe (Tauri).
Circassians are Caucasians, the Tauri were a Turkic sub-tribe.

[justme]

Crimean Tatars are the earliest inhabitans and the native people of Crimea. Herodotus describes the Tauri people in the antiquity. The Tauri people had the same lifestyle as the Crimean Tatars once. He wrote that the Tauri lived from wars and plundering. Of which ethnic group in the modern Crimean Peninsula does this remind you? The word Crimea itself is of Turkic origin
I don't know but Crimea was originally Crimmerian then Scythians and Slavs came along and for Turkic I'm not sure but originally it was Crimmerian.

[Sarmatian]

Crimean Tatars are the earliest inhabitans and the native people of Crimea. Herodotus describes the Tauri people in the antiquity. The Tauri people had the same lifestyle as the Crimean Tatars once. He wrote that the Tauri lived from wars and plundering. Of which ethnic group in the modern Crimean Peninsula does this remind you? The word Crimea itself is of Turkic origin

Everyone in the Steppe lived from wars and plundering be it Iranic, Turkic, Slavic, Khazar. And everyone moved around constantly. Doesn't prove anything.

The fact of Tatar's coming to Crimea is confirmed by many historians. They've either absorbed or exterminated the previous inhabitants. As for the name Crimea it doesn't mean anything, it was just adopted by everyone as already existing name. Not sure if it's actually Turkic, some suggest it came from the Cimmerians.

[Sky earth]

Everyone in the Steppe lived from wars and plundering be it Iranic, Turkic, Slavic, Khazar. And everyone moved around constantly. Doesn't prove anything.

The fact of Tatar's coming to Crimea is confirmed by many historians. They've either absorbed or exterminated the previous inhabitants. As for the name Crimea it doesn't mean anything, it was just adopted by everyone as already existing name. Not sure if it's actually Turkic, some suggest it came from the Cimmerians.

You don't understand basic ethnogenesis. The modern Turkic Crimmean Tatars are the RESULT of the several steppe nomadic peoples who stayed and traveled through the Crimea. This fact alone makes the Crimean Tatars the native people of Crimea. Slavs were evli farmers who stole the Land of the nomadic Crimean Tatars.

[Proto-Shaman]

As for the name Crimea it doesn't mean anything, it was just adopted by everyone as already existing name. Not sure if it's actually Turkic, some suggest it came from the Cimmerians.
The name "Crimea" comes from Turkic qırım ("my steppe; or hill"). qır ("steppe") + suffix -ım ("my"), from Old Turkic kır ("steppe, desert"), from Proto-Turkic *Kɨr ("isolated mountain; mountain top, mountain ridge; steppe, desert, level ground; edge").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians#Language
http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=k%C4%B1r1&lnk=1
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=%2fdata%2falt%2fturcet&text_number=1013&root=config&encoding=utf-eng

[Sarmatian]

You don't understand basic ethnogenesis. The modern Turkic Crimmean Tatars are the RESULT of the several steppe nomadic peoples who stayed and traveled through the Crimea. This fact alone makes the Crimean Tatars the native people of Crimea. Slavs were evli farmers who stole the Land of the nomadic Crimean Tatars.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/32405/956805-facepalm_implied.jpg

Since you know so much about the history could you remind me why Slavs had issues with Crimean Tatars in the first place?

[Sarmatian]

The name "Crimea" comes from Turkic qırım ("my steppe; or hill"). qır ("steppe") + suffix -ım ("my"), from Old Turkic kır ("steppe, desert").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians#Language
http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=k%C4%B1r1&lnk=1

Thanks for info. It doesn't really matter to me, we adopted the name Tatars used and I don't see it as a prove of anything.

[Sky earth]

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/32405/956805-facepalm_implied.jpg

Since you know so much about the history could you remind me why Slavs had issues with Crimean Tatars in the first place?

Since their first day the Slavs lived from assimilating and exterminating other cultures and peoples. The most famous victims of the brutal Slav assimilation were the Finno-ugrics, Scytho-Sarmatians,Thracians, Illyrians and the Turkic Bulgars. Slavs don't exist. You are nothing more than a bunch of confused Illyrians, Bulgars, Finno-ugrics, Greeks and Germanics. Slavs are comparable with Americans

[blogen]

You don't understand basic ethnogenesis. The modern Turkic Crimmean Tatars are the RESULT of the several steppe nomadic peoples who stayed and traveled through the Crimea. This fact alone makes the Crimean Tatars the native people of Crimea. Slavs were evli farmers who stole the Land of the nomadic Crimean Tatars.

All of the Tatar folk are mixed folks, but they have a language and this language the evidence of their ethnic origin: Kypchak Turkic language. So their ancestors arrived with the first Kypchaks (the Pecheneg tribes) into the Crimea in the 10th century AD. Later Mongolians, Ottomans, Russians made a conquest of them, and they made a conquest of many folks too. But they are the Pecheneg conquerors' descendants.

ps. agriculture existed always on the peninsula, the agricultural exports were the capital revenue sources of the peninsula beside the slave trade since the Scythians. And the nomads were in a minority between the Tatars though.

[blogen]

Since their first Day the Slavs lived from assimilating and exterminating other cultures and peoples. The famous victims were the Finno-ugrics, Thracians, Illyrians and the Turkic Bulgars.

Finno-ugrics: yes, this is true, but this was slow fusion rather and the consequence are the Russians.
Thracians, Illyrians: The Greeks and Latins assimilated their majority before the Avar wars (Slavs arrived).
Turkic Bolgars: They were the conquerors and not the victims. :D

[Proto-Shaman]

Thanks for info. It doesn't really matter to me, we adopted the name Tatars used and I don't see it as a prove of anything.
In the 5th c. BC Herodotus referred to a nearby region called "Cremni" which meant "the cliffs". This fits exactly to the meaning of the Turkic word. And what does this mean? This means that official history is simply wrong.

[Sarmatian]

Since their first day the Slavs lived from assimilating and exterminating other cultures and peoples. The most famous victims of the brutal Slav assimilation were the Finno-ugrics, Scytho-Sarmatians,Thracians, Illyrians and the Turkic Bulgars. Slavs don't exist. You are nothing more than a bunch of confused Illyrians, Bulgars, Finno-ugrics, Greeks and Germanics. Slavs are comparable with Americans

:loco: are you sure we are from the same planet?

[Sarmatian]

In the 5th c. BC Herodotus referred to a nearby region called "Cremni" which meant "the cliffs". This fits exactly to the meaning of the Turkic word. And what does this mean? This means that official history is simply wrong.

I'm not sure if I follow you. The Greek and the Turkic names for the place sounds similar and have same meaning, right? But how does that make official history wrong?

[Sky earth]

Finno-ugrics: yes, this is true, but this was slow fusion rather and the consequence are the Russians.
Thracians, Illyrians: The Greeks and Latins assimilated their majority before the Avar wars (Slavs arrived).
Turkic Bolgars: They were the conquerors and not the victims. :D

Sometimes the conquerer ends up as the conquered hismself. This was the case of the Turkic Bulgars when they adopted a South Slavic tongue and it was in the case of Mongols where almost all of them were Turkiczed after Ghengis Khan

[Sky earth]

:loco: are you sure we are from the same planet?

Typical answer if someone has no arguments anymore

[Sarmatian]

Typical answer if someone has no arguments anymore

No need arguments against stupidity.

I didn't ask you to lecture me on the evil nature of Slavs. I asked you: why Slavs had issues with Crimean Tatars? What was the main reason Slavs hated specifically Crimean Tatars?

[LightHouse89]

I am American and I want to sign up for the Pro Putin American Birgade!!!!! Down with liberals!

[Proto-Shaman]

I'm not sure if I follow you. The Greek and the Turkic names for the place sounds similar and have same meaning, right? But how does that make official history wrong?
Because official western history says that in Eastern Europe there were no Turks at that time. Officially Turks came 800 years later with the Huns.

[Proto-Shaman]

Crimean Tatars bring food to Ukrainian soldiers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-5TakpVuXo

Turks even care for their not so friendly neighbors. Thats typical for us. But at the end we were deceived as always in history.

[LightHouse89]

that was nice of them.

[Kiyant]

I dont understand the reason of this discussion....

[LightHouse89]

I dont understand the reason of this discussion....

me niether but if Putin wants to rule the world I am all for it.....I will join his army of mercenaries who do not patch flags on their arms.....that is the smartest way to invade a country....send in your army and deny to all enemies they are from your country hahahahahaha. http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-cannot-order-crimean-self-defense-forces-095720047--finance.html?vp=1

[Proto-Shaman]

NATO entered Ukraine? WTF is going on there?!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pva5kBrruvk

[d3cimat3d]

Circassians are Caucasians, the Tauri were a Turkic sub-tribe.

No one knows who Tauri were exactly but most speculate they were western-most Circassians who crossed Kerch.

Tauri being Turkic is just absurd that has no evidence except your faulty linguistics, which is most likely just a coincidence. What is more laughable you take it back even further and try to pass off Yamna culture as Turkic as well.... you try to act like the mainstream got it wrong but somehow you, the amazing Kipchak_Hakan figured it all out.

Kipchak Hakan logic: Georgians call their land Sakartvelo, this must mean the Saka came from Georgia!!


Slavs don't even know were they originated themselves one thing for sure is that it wasn't Poland, history says Slavs moved to Poland and Balkans during the 6century AD. They most likely came from venedi (present day Russia and Belarus) but then people are saying venedi are proto-Baltic... More likely Slavs and Balts are related as both came from venedi. I actually think that Scythians were Slavs.

Slavic homeland was never a mystery:

http://i62.tinypic.com/wrez5u.jpg

[justme]

No one knows who Tauri were exactly but most speculate they were western-most Circassians who crossed Kerch.

Tauri being Turkic is just absurd that has no evidence except your faulty linguistics, which is most likely just a coincidence. What is more laughable you take it back even further and try to pass off Yamna culture as Turkic as well.... you try to act like the mainstream got it wrong but somehow you, the amazing Kipchak_Hakan figured it all out.

Kipchak Hakan logic: Georgians call their land Sakartvelo, this must mean the Saka came from Georgia!!



Slavic homeland was never a mystery:

http://i62.tinypic.com/wrez5u.jpg
Your map proves Slavs are originally from venedi.

[d3cimat3d]

Your map proves Slavs are originally from venedi.

But earlier you said Venedi came from modern Belarus and Russia, when my map doesn't' suggest that at all.


Slavs don't even know were they originated themselves one thing for sure is that it wasn't Poland, history says Slavs moved to Poland and Balkans during the 6century AD. They most likely came from venedi (present day Russia and Belarus) but then people are saying venedi are proto-Baltic... More likely Slavs and Balts are related as both came from venedi. I actually think that Scythians were Slavs.

[blogen]

The Slavic homeland was the Kiev culture:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/East_europe_3-4cc.png/997px-East_europe_3-4cc.png?uselang=ru
The Slav expansion started from here.

[d3cimat3d]

The Slavic homeland was the Kiev culture:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/East_europe_3-4cc.png/997px-East_europe_3-4cc.png?uselang=ru
The Slav expansion started from here.

Prague culture just to the west of Kiev culture predates Kiev culture.

Besides this map is wrong in some ways. Goths didn't come from Sweden through Poland, instead they followed the Danube from what is now Bavaria/Austria, this is supported by linguistics.

[blogen]

Prague culture just to the west of Kiev culture predates Kiev culture.

Kiev culture: 2-5th century AD, Prague culture: 5-8th century AD


Besides this map is wrong in some ways. Goths didn't come from Sweden through Poland, instead they followed the Danube from what is now Bavaria/Austria, this is supported by linguistics.

Which linguists? :D

[Hweinlant]

NATO entered Ukraine? WTF is going on there?!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pva5kBrruvk

That's probably in Poland. See the car around 0:17, writing in the door is ZW, that's Polish for Military Gendarmerie. Then again there has been some serious troop reshuffling in Poland for last few days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxHPAiPGAeE

[Proto-Shaman]

No one knows who Tauri were exactly but most speculate they were western-most Circassians who crossed Kerch.

Tauri being Turkic is just absurd that has no evidence except your faulty linguistics, which is most likely just a coincidence. What is more laughable you take it back even further and try to pass off Yamna culture as Turkic as well.... you try to act like the mainstream got it wrong but somehow you, the amazing Kipchak_Hakan figured it all out.
Tauri meant "mountain people" or simply "highlander", the Tauri inhabited only mountainous regions of southern Crimea. Taurica meant "mountainous landscape". Tau (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/da%C4%9F#Etymology) in Turkic means "mountain". The Turkic suffix -r (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-er#Turkish) is denoting a "follower of a tribe" or simply a "tribesman". Also compare the Turkic substrate word in Celtic "tau-r" meaning "mountain". The probability of a coincidence is almost zero.


Kipchak Hakan logic: Georgians call their land Sakartvelo, this must mean the Saka came from Georgia!!
What a filthy own goal ^^

სა- (sa-) +‎ ქართველი (k’art’veli) +‎ -ო (-o).

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/საქართველო#Etymology

[Petros Houhoulis]

Tauri meant "mountain people" or simply "highlander", the Tauri inhabited only mountainous regions of southern Crimea. Taurica meant "mountainous landscape". Tau (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/da%C4%9F#Etymology) in Turkic means "mountain". The Turkic suffix -r (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-er#Turkish) is denoting a "follower of a tribe" or simply a "tribesman". Also compare the Turkic substrate word in Celtic "tau-r" meaning "mountain". The probability of a coincidence is almost zero.


What a filthy own goal ^^

სა- (sa-) +‎ ქართველი (k’art’veli) +‎ -ო (-o).

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/საქართველო#Etymology

So, what is the etymology of the Taurus mountains in Turkey itself dear?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_mountains


The Taurus Mountains (Turkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language): Toros Dağları, Ancient Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek): Όρη Ταύρου) are a mountain complex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_range) in southern Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey), dividing the Mediterranean coastal region (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Region,_Turkey)of southern Turkey from the central Anatolian Plateau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia#Anatolian_plateau). The system extends along a curve from Lake Eğirdir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_E%C4%9Firdir) in the west to the upper reaches of the Euphrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrates) andTigris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigris) rivers in the east. It is a part of the Alpide belt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpide_belt) in Eurasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia).The Taurus mountains are divided into three chains from west to east as follows;


Western Taurus (Batı Toroslar)

Akdağlar, the Bey Mountains, Katrancık Mountain, Geyik Mountain


Central Taurus (Orta Toroslar)

Akçalı Mountains, Bolkar Mountains, Aladağlar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Taurus_Mountains), Tahtalı Mountain


Southeastern Taurus (Güneydoğu Toroslar)

Nurhak Mountains, Malatya Mountains, Maden Mountains, Genç Mountains, Bitlis mountain



The bull was commonly the symbol and depiction of ancient Near Eastern storm gods, hence Taurus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_(constellation)) the bull, and hence the name of the mountains. The mountains are a place of many ancient storm-god temples.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_mountains#cite_note-1) Torrential thunderstorms in these mountains were deemed by the ancient Syrians to be the work of the storm-god Adad to make the Tigris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigris) and Euphrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrates) rivers rise and flood and thereby fertilise their land.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_mountains#cite_note-2) The Hurrians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurrians), probably originators of the various storm-gods of the ancient Near East, were a people whom modern scholars place in the Taurus Mountains at their probable earliest origins.

If Tau means mountain in Turkish, then why do you use the prefix Boz- for nearly every mountain you have named???

Bulls-eye!!!

[Krampus]

I say Ukrainiab Nationalists destroy the Activists and Russians

[Proto-Shaman]

-----

[Proto-Shaman]

So, what is the etymology of the Taurus mountains in Turkey itself dear?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_mountains
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=sans-serif]
:lightbul: Bull people?

:thumb001:


If Tau means mountain in Turkish, then why do you use the prefix Boz- for nearly every mountain you have named???
because boz (http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=boz&x=0&y=0) means "grey". It has the same root with Turkic börü (http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=b%C3%B6r%C3%BC&lnk=1) "wolf". Thats why Bozkurt (http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=kurt&lnk=1) "grey wolf", you know.

[Petros Houhoulis]

:lightbul: Bull people?

:thumb001:


because boz (http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=boz&x=0&y=0) means "grey". It has the same root with Turkic börü (http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=b%C3%B6r%C3%BC&lnk=1) "wolf". Thats why Bozkurt (http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=kurt&lnk=1) "grey wolf", you know.

I have no idea if it is bull people. I am just proving to you that your etymologies don't work, primarily because you are not a linguist. I have tried this game too, it was tempting, until I realized it was making stupid, and that was many ages before I started posting here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscientific_language_comparison


The most common method applied in pseudoscientific language comparisons is to search two or more languages for words that seem similar in their sound and meaning. While similarities of this kind often seem convincing to laypersons, linguistic scientists consider this kind of comparison to be unreliable for two primary reasons. First, the method applied is not well-defined: the criterion of similarity is subjective and thus not subject to verification or falsification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability), which is contrary to the principles of the scientific method. Second, the large size of all languages' vocabulary makes it easy to find coincidentally similar words between languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory


The Sun Language Theory (Turkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language): Güneş Dil Teorisi) was a Turkish nationalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_nationalism)pseudoscientific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscientific) linguistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics) hypothesis developed in Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey) in the 1930s that proposed that all human languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language) are descendants of one proto-Turkic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_Languages) primal language. The theory proposed that because this primal language had close phonemic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonemic) resemblances to Turkish, all other languages can essentially be traced back to Turkic roots. According to the theory, the Central Asian worshippers, who wanted to salute the omnipotence of the sun and its life-giving qualities, had done so by transforming their meaningless blabbering into a coherent set of ritual utterings, and language was born, hence the name.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-1)

Influences on the theory included:


the ideas of the French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) historian Hilaire de Barenton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilaire_de_Barenton), expressed in "L'Origine des Langues, des Religions et des Peuples", that all languages originated from hieroglyphs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieroglyph) and cuneiform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform) used by Sumerians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerians)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-nytimes-2)



a paper of the Austrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria) linguist Dr. Hermann F. Kvergić of Vienna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna) entitled "La psychologie de quelques elements des langues Turques" ("The Psychology of Some Elements of the Turkic Languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_Languages)")[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-3)

The founder and first president of the Republic of Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk), gave the theory official backing and material support.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-4)
Tenets[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sun_Language_Theory&action=edit&section=2)]As described in a 1936 The New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times) article on the curriculum of the newly opened School of Language, History and Geography of Ankara University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankara_University):[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-nytimes-2)

claims that the Sumerians, being Turks, originating in Central Asia, all languages also consequently originated there and first used by the Turks. the first language, in fact, came into being in this way: Prehistoric man, i.e., Turks in the most primitive stage, was so struck by the effects of the sun on life that he made of it a deity whence sprang all good and evil. Thence came to him light, darkness, warmth and fire, with it were associated all ideas of time: height, distance, movement, size, and give expression to his feelings the sun was thus the first thing to which a name was given. It was "ag" (pronounced agh), and from this syllable all words in use today are derived. This, briefly, is the theory about the "sun language," and with the new conception of Turkish history it will be taught in the new Angora school.
In short, based upon a helio-centric view of the origin of civilization and human languages, the theory claimed that the Turkish language was the language which all civilized languages derived from.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-5)
Some of the words provided with false Turkish etymologies through the practice of goropism (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/goropism) were school, which was attributed to the Turkish word okul (school); God, attributed to the Turkish kut (blessing); Bulletin from belleten (to learn by heart); Electric from Uyghur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_language)yaltrık (shine).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-6)
According to linguist Ghil'ad Zuckermann, "it is possible that the Sun Language Theory was adopted by Atatürk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk) in order to legitimize the Arabic and Persian words which the Turkish language authorities did not manage to uproot. This move compensated for the failure to provide a neologism for every foreignism/loanword."[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory#cite_note-7)

History has made fools of you for quite some time... But you won't quit the habit of stupidity I guess...

[d3cimat3d]

Kiev culture: 2-5th century AD, Prague culture: 5-8th century AD

The map you have posted has Prague 3-4th century AD, and Kiev 5th century.



Which linguists? :D

http://www.kortlandt.nl/publications/art198e.pdf


Gothic is closer to Upper German than to Middle
German, closer to High German than to Low German, closer to German than to
Scandinavian, closer to Danish than to Swedish, and that the original homeland of
the Goths must therefore be located in the southernmost part of the Germanic
territories, not in Scandinavia

Also Goths were a sub-tribe of Marcomanni:

http://i60.tinypic.com/10dws53.png

http://i57.tinypic.com/whgok6.jpg

Goths were nothing more than settlers for Germany, a trip down the Danube their ancestors would repeat many times over:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessarabia_Germans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_Saxons

[blogen]

The map you have posted has Prague 3-4th century AD, and Kiev 5th century.

Proto Praga-Korchak culture and Kiev culture ended in the 5th century.


http://www.kortlandt.nl/publications/art198e.pdf

Interesting, but baseless theory. There are no Gothic archeological remains in the late antique Danube valley (except in the Northeastern and Eastern Carpathians from the other side)

[d3cimat3d]

Interesting, but baseless theory. There are no Gothic archeological remains in the late antique Danube valley (except in the Northeastern and Eastern Carpathians from the other side)

Actually the Vistula Goths are even more of a baseless theory, considering the eastern bank was inhabited by Prussian tribes during that time.

http://i61.tinypic.com/2cmp0qw.png

The only reason the accepted theory is Scandinavia>Poland>S-E Europe is because Jordanes wrote it so, other than that there is no evidence. The linguistic evidence should come first:


Gothic is closer to Upper German than to Middle
German, closer to High German than to Low German, closer to German than to
Scandinavian, closer to Danish than to Swedish, and that the original homeland of
the Goths must therefore be located in the southernmost part of the Germanic
territories, not in Scandinavia


There are no Gothic archeological remains in the late antique Danube valley (except in the Northeastern and Eastern Carpathians from the other side)

If the migrations happened rapidly there would be no time to drop things along the way.

[Loki]

The only reason the accepted theory is Scandinavia>Poland>S-E Europe is because Jordanes wrote it so, other than that there is no evidence.


There's lots of evidence evidence, not just Jordanes. I have a book called "History of the Goths". A thorough detailed account.

[blogen]

Actually the Vistula Goths are even more of a baseless theory, considering the eastern bank was inhabited by Prussian tribes during that time.
http://i61.tinypic.com/2cmp0qw.png
The only reason the accepted theory is Scandinavia>Poland>S-E Europe is because Jordanes wrote it so, other than that there is no evidence.

The expansion of the Wielbark culture not effected significantly the Baltic populated lands.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Oksywie_Wielbark_Przeworsk.gif


If the migrations happened rapidly there would be no time to drop things along the way.

Rapid, but unnoticed wandering before the Roman border? Please!

[d3cimat3d]

There's lots of evidence evidence, not just Jordanes. I have a book called "History of the Goths". A thorough detailed account.

Care to highlight some of the points? Because I think the linguistic argument alone is enough. Gothic was more similar to Bavarian, there's no way around that fact.



Rapid, but unnoticed wandering before the Roman border? Please!

North of the Danube was un-watched territory, Romans hardly knew anything beyond the Danube.

[Loki]

Care to highlight some of the points? Because I think the linguistic argument alone is enough. Gothic was more similar to Bavarian, there's no way around that fact.


Bavarian? That's laughable :lol:

Here is the book on Google:

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/History_of_the_Goths.html?id=xsQxcJvaLjAC&redir_esc=y

[Loki]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xsQxcJvaLjAC&pg=PA19&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Anyway, as for Crimea ... it have had the last surviving Gothic language, the the major genetic impact of the Goths were in current Moldova.

[blogen]

North of the Danube was un-watched territory, Romans hardly knew anything beyond the Danube.

You know what was this border? Basically a customs frontier. The watchtowers, the planks, the troops all hindered the contraband and the immigrants. This was the great problem of the Romans, the contraband and the illegal immigration. The limes was a fence. Only the short time existing late-roman Limes was a fortification line before the collapse. The Roman state authorities spent huge money and used huge human resources on tracking the events on the border regions. They had very accurate informations.

[d3cimat3d]

Bavarian? That's laughable :lol:

Here is the book on Google:

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/History_of_the_Goths.html?id=xsQxcJvaLjAC&redir_esc=y

Well consider that I'm unbiased on this matter and just going by what logic tells me..... Actually a while ago I was convinced of the Scandinavia>Poland>S-E Europe migration but was disappointed when Kortlandt made his points. Not that I have anything to do with those people (Goths) but I would rather have them be Scandinavian for political reasons, I'm not comfortable with the idea of Germans stealing land from East-Euro's since Roman times.

http://www.kortlandt.nl/publications/art198e.pdf

Besides Kortlandt is an expert in linguistics, especially his native Germanic language:


Frederik Herman Henri Kortlandt is a professor of descriptive and comparative linguistics at Leiden University in the Netherlands.

........Actually I'm unsure really. DNA tests needed to solve the mystery.


You know what was this border? Basically a customs frontier. The watchtowers, the planks, the troops all hindered the contraband and the immigrants. This was the great problem of the Romans, the contraband and the illegal immigration. The limes was a fence. Only the short time existing late-roman Limes was a fortification line before the collapse. The Roman state authorities spent huge money and used huge human resources on tracking the events on the border regions. They had very accurate informations.

Then why did they have such logistic failures dealing with the Huns?

[Loki]

Well consider that I'm unbiased on this matter and just going by what logic tells me.....

No, you are very biased. Have you cared to read the book yet?? It would change your opinions. Wolfram is in expert on the Goths.

[d3cimat3d]

No, you are very biased.

:confused:What would I gain from saying Goths were a people coming from Germany? I don't have anything against Scandinavians, it simply doesn't conform to logic!



Have you cared to read the book yet?? It would change your opinions.

Actually, I'm looking for it on Amazon now.

[blogen]

Then why did they have such logistic failures dealing with the Huns?

When the Huns arrived the empire not exist anymore. But before the third century crisis, the empire was rich and accurate.

[Loki]

:confused:What would I gain from saying Goths were a people coming from Germany? I don't have anything against Scandinavians, it simply doesn't conform to logic!


In this book they link the Goths with the Swedish Gutones



Actually, I'm looking for it on Amazon now.

No need, you can read it only on Google.

[LightHouse89]

I say Ukrainiab Nationalists destroy the Activists and Russians

agreed

[LightHouse89]

In this book they link the Goths with the Swedish Gutones



No need, you can read it only on Google.

The real Goths came from Hot Topic :rolleyes:

[Proto-Shaman]

I have no idea if it is bull people. I am just proving to you that your etymologies don't work, primarily because you are not a linguist. I have tried this game too, it was tempting, until I realized it was making stupid, and that was many ages before I started posting here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscientific_language_comparison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory

History has made fools of you for quite some time... But you won't quit the habit of stupidity I guess...
Calm down cowboy...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauri#Name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Name