China to Obama: Don't meet Dalai Lama

[Loki]

China calls on U.S. to scrap meeting between Obama and Dalai Lama (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/asia/china-us-dalai-lama/index.html?iid=article_sidebar)

Hong Kong (CNN) -- China has urged U.S. President Barack Obama to call off a meeting at the White House with Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama that's scheduled to take place Friday.
Dalai Lama: China belongs to the people

"By arranging a meeting between the President and the Dalai Lama, the U.S. side will grossly interfere in the internal affairs of China, seriously violate norms governing international relations and severely impair China-U.S. relations," Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Hua Chunying said in a statement Friday.

The White House on Thursday announced the planned meeting between Obama and the Dalai Lama, who lives in exile.

Obama has met with the Dalai Lama twice before, in February 2010 and July 2011. China responded to those meetings with similarly angry comments.

Beijing accuses the Dalai Lama of being a separatist who foments unrest in Tibet, a region it claims has been part of China since "ancient times."

The Dalai Lama, who fled to India in 1959 after a failed uprising, has long denied China's assertion that he's seeking Tibetan independence. He says he wants only enough autonomy to protect its traditional Buddhist culture.

The Obama administration says it supports the Dalai Lama's "Middle Way" approach to the political tensions over protests for Tibetan independence.

"The United States recognizes Tibet to be a part of the People's Republic of China and we do not support Tibetan independence," said National Security Council spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden. "The United States strongly supports human rights and religious freedom in China."

Concerns over human rights

Over the past five years, at least 125 Tibetans have set themselves on fire, most of them fatally, to protest Chinese rule, according to Tibetan advocacy groups.

Beijing has taken a tough line on Tibetan self-immolators, their associates and other forms of protest. Tibetans have been convicted of murder in Chinese courts for "inciting" people to set themselves on fire.

The frequency of self-immolations declined during 2013, according to the London-based advocacy group Free Tibet.

"We are concerned about continuing tensions and the deteriorating human rights situation in Tibetan areas of China," Hayden said. "We will continue to urge the Chinese government to resume dialogue with the Dalai Lama or his representatives, without preconditions, as a means to reduce tensions."

China rejects accusations of oppression, saying that under its rule, living standards have greatly improved for the Tibetan people.

Beijing has "lodged solemn representations" with the United States over the planned meeting Friday, saying "Tibet-related affairs fall entirely within the internal affairs of China which allow no foreign interference," Hua of the Chinese foreign ministry said.

A meeting between British Prime Minister David Cameron and the Dalai Lama last year cast a chill over relations between London and Beijing, delaying a visit to China by Cameron.

[RussiaPrussia]

how can obama meet this terrorist who wants to destabilize china?

[GrebluBro]

Tibet people are different from Han Chinese in several ways..

If Tibet people accept to live in China, itz fine.
it seems they hate to be part of China :shrug:

I think these two region people are forced to live as part of China


Xinjiang
http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/114292.jpg


Tibet

http://www.conservapedia.com/images/e/e6/Tibet_map.gif

[alb0zfinest]

how can obama meet this terrorist who wants to destabilize china?

If some of the most peaceful people are regarded as terrorists by you then what are the Chinese?

Anyways I think the U.S should calm down a bit. Getting China upset over this, and upsetting Russia for the Ukrainian situation. Wouldn't want something to escalate here.

[Loki]

how can obama meet this terrorist who wants to destabilize china?

It's in America's interests to destabilize China and Russia.

[RussiaPrussia]

If some of the most peaceful people are regarded as terrorists by you then what are the Chinese?

Anyways I think the U.S should calm down a bit. Getting China upset over this, and upsetting Russia for the Ukrainian situation. Wouldn't want something to escalate here.

china hasover a billion people, every 7th human is a han chinese they are the total ethnic majority in the world while tibetians are very small sized. So chinese claims is totally legit as they have more people which is very democratic process.

Also is the dalai lama following, a sect not a religion, its the same way like Scientology just older.

[haidian]

Tibetans rank No.10 among all ethnic groups in China population wise. less people than my district in Beijing,and Beijing has 16 districts. Beijing is just one of the hundreds if not thousands of cities in China.

[Drawing-slim]

how can obama meet this terrorist who wants to destabilize china?

:roll:

[haidian]

Xinjiang is where most people worry about, the Muslim fanatics are pretty active recently. Tibet is largely a very safe and peaceful place,it was just recently voted the safest place in China.

[Loki]

how can obama meet this terrorist who wants to destabilize china?

Exactly. On the other hand, Putin would never meet the Dalai Lama. Russia and China has a strong friendship.

[Loki]

Xinjiang is where most people worry about, the Muslim fanatics are pretty active recently. Tibet is largely a very safe and peaceful place,it was just recently voted the safest place in China.

Exactly.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I think obama should show his solidarity by lighting himself on fire in protest.

[Loki]

Tibet people are different from Han Chinese in several ways..

If Tibet people accept to live in China, itz fine.
it seems they hate to be part of China :shrug:

I think these two region people are forced to live as part of China


They are integral parts of China. I do not support any separatism in these regions.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

They are integral parts of China. I do not support any separatism in these regions.

They are ethnically completely different, though. Same with ughurs.

[haidian]

They are ethnically completely different, though. Same with ughurs.

Europeans are ethnically completely different from native American Indians.

[Fortis in Arduis]

US administration:

Ethnic separatism is good for enemies of her enemies

Ethnic separatists who are her enemies are Nazis-who-want-to-kill-six-million-Jews

It gets old.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Europeans are ethnically completely different from native American Indians.

True but the situation isn't like USA. It's like with england and ireland a few centuries ago. They are conquered people but they still exist and are majority in their own country. As such they should be allowed to rule their own country, anything else is simply wrong.

[haidian]

True but the situation isn't like USA. It's like with england and ireland a few centuries ago. They are conquered people but they still exist and are majority in their own country. As such they should be allowed to rule their own country, anything else is simply wrong.

They are no longer the majority and if the Chinese government intended to completely change the demographic,with one fifth of the humanity,She can easily achieve that goal overnight.

[Fortis in Arduis]

True but the situation isn't like USA. It's like with england and ireland a few centuries ago. They are conquered people but they still exist and are majority in their own country. As such they should be allowed to rule their own country, anything else is simply wrong.

You can say that, but one might also say that:


The British Isles together make a stronger military-strategic landmass, capable of running and defending a huge empire outside its borders


The Irish Republic and its objection to British (not English) rule is unjustified; we are similar peoples divided mainly by religious difference


Irish Secession weakened Britain considerably. It was bad/wrong/unfair for Britain as a whole


British Kings were once crowned in Ireland; there is an inextricable link between our peoples that has been severed by religious demagogues



They are no longer the majority and if the Chinese government intended to completely change the demographic,with one fifth of the humanity,She can easily achieve that goal overnight.

When did Tibetans lose their ethnic majority?

Oh, bullshit:


With an average of only 2 people per square kilometer, The Tibet Autonomous Region has the lowest population density among any of the Chinese province-level administrative regions, mostly due to its harsh and rugged terrain.
In 2009 the Tibetan population was 2.91 million. The ethnic Tibetans, comprising 92.8% of the population, mainly adhere to Tibetan Buddhism and Bön, although there is an ethnic Tibetan Muslim community. Other Muslim ethnic groups such as the Hui and the Salar have inhabited the Region. There is also a tiny Tibetan Christian community in eastern Tibet. Smaller tribal groups such as the Monpa and Lhoba, who follow a combination of Tibetan Buddhism and spirit worship, are found mainly in the southeastern parts of the region.
Historically, the population of Tibet consisted of primarily ethnic Tibetans. According to tradition the original ancestors of the Tibetan people, as represented by the six red bands in the Tibetan flag, are: the Se, Mu, Dong, Tong, Dru and Ra. Other traditional ethnic groups with significant population or with the majority of the ethnic group reside in Tibet include Bai people, Blang, Bonan, Dongxiang, Han, Hui people, Lhoba, Lisu people, Miao, Mongols, Monguor (Tu people), Menba (Monpa), Mosuo, Nakhi, Qiang, Nu people, Pumi, Salar, and Yi people.
According to Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition published between 1910–1911, total population of Tibetan capital of Lhasa, including the lamas in the city and vicinity, was about 30,000, and the permanent population also included Chinese families (about 2,000).
Most Han people in the TAR (6.1% of the total population) are recent migrants, because all of the Han were expelled from Outer Tibet following the British expedition until the establishment of the PRC. Some ethnic Tibetans claim that, with the 2006 completion of the Qingzang Railway connecting the TAR to Qinghai Province, there has been an "acceleration" of Han migration into the region. The Central Tibetan Administration of the Dalai Lama claims that the PRC has actively swamped Tibet with migrants in order to alter Tibet's demographic makeup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demographics

[zhaoyun]

Actually, contrary to what you'd hear on the Western media, I think the majority of Tibetans in China actually accept the idea that they are Chinese. This was not always the case, but due to the expansion of the Chinese public education system in Tibet, and the propagation of the idea that all minority groups within China are Chinese, for the most part, this is accepted by most minorities in China. Of course, China is an authoritarian country so it won't hold elections in Tibet for them to choose, but if I were to guess, there may be a sizable portion that may want more autonomy but not necessarily independence. Tibetans are more likely to consider themselves Chinese than the Uighurs, primarily because the Uighurs are Muslims and they also look more different from the Han. Tibetans are Buddhists and look more similar to Han Chinese, so there is less ethnic friction.

I'm not saying that the PRC view of history is not propaganda, because a large part of it is, but the fact is that China has ruled Tibet since the 17th century, before the US was created, so China has as much of a claim to Tibet as the US has to existing on the American continent or Russia to Siberia. The Tibetans however pretty much ruled themselves autonomously that entire time through their Lamaist system so they were not fully assimilated into Chinese civilization, until only recently. However you'd be surprised how effective the idea of Chinese nationalism is amongst China's minorities, the vast majority consider themselves Chinese, even many young Uighurs nowadays.

In short, China is not Japan or Korea, which are really homogenous. China is like a civilization within a state. It has a lot of room for differences in ethnicity, culture, civilization even, as long as they all accept the overarching Chinese identity and the authority of the central state. This flexibility has always been a component of Chinese civilization and it is part of why China has been the oldest continuous nation state, as well as being able to maintain such a large and diverse empire.

[Nehellenia]

I think obama should show his solidarity by lighting himself on fire in protest.

HAHAHAHAAH

But seriously though, the Lama class in Tibet was bad and the common people all worked so hard and were starving peasants and treated poorly, Tibet being how it was when the Dalai Lama was there would just be unequal and disproportionate between rich and poor and there are probably better off as part of China i think.. but it depends what the people there want, not dictated by several misguided Hollywood types, who have been saying in the media, how wonderful the Dalai Lama is.. of course he'd get the world to be on his side, his the Dalai Lama, he would practically run the place again if he could :P

[zhaoyun]

HAHAHAHAAH

But seriously though, the Lama class in Tibet was bad and the common people all worked so hard and were starving peasants and treated poorly, Tibet being how it was when the Dalai Lama was there would just be unequal and disproportionate between rich and poor and there are probably better off as part of China i think.. but it depends what the people there want, not dictated by several misguided Hollywood types, who have been saying in the media, how wonderful the Dalai Lama is.. of course he'd get the world to be on his side, his the Dalai Lama, he would practically run the place again if he could :P

Given that circumstances and Tibetan society has changed, there is no way that the Dalai Lama can return and rule Tibet like the way he used to do. However, I am sure that if Tibet were to become independent, it would be very third world, and the ruling class would just act like a parasitic sponge. In other words, there would not be the type of investment in infrastructure that you see in Tibet today. Although I do understand why some Tibetans, especially the overseas Tibetans want independence as they are very ethnically different from the Han Chinese, it is also the case that without being part of the PRC, Tibet would not have the living standards and infrastructure it has today.

[GrebluBro]

Given that circumstances and Tibetan society has changed, there is no way that the Dalai Lama can return and rule Tibet like the way he used to do. However, I am sure that if Tibet were to become independent, it would be very third world, and the ruling class would just act like a parasitic sponge. In other words, there would not be the type of investment in infrastructure that you see in Tibet today. Although I do understand why some Tibetans, especially the overseas Tibetans want independence as they are very ethnically different from the Han Chinese, it is also the case that without being part of the PRC, Tibet would not have the living standards and infrastructure it has today.


After realizing some facts, I do agree with what you said :thumb001:

While searching Uyghur poeple pics, I saw this pic :lol:

http://www.innermongolia.org/images/Mongol_Tuved_Uyghur.gif

[Drawing-slim]

Exactly. On the other hand, Putin would never meet the Dalai Lama. Russia and China has a strong friendship.

Dalai Lama will never and should never lower himself to meet Putin and other criminal Chinese leaders.
He is truly a saint compare to these twisted criminal leaders.
American leaders are good people on individual bases and deep down. They get elected democratically. Whether one agrees with their politics and foreign polices is a whole different story but would be an honor to shake hands with any American president. A blessing.

[zhaoyun]

Dalai Lama will never and should never lower himself to meet Putin and other criminal Chinese leaders.
He is truly a saint compare to these twisted criminal leaders.
American leaders are good people on individual bases and deep down. They get elected democratically. Whether one agrees with their politics and foreign polices is a whole different story but would be an honor to shake hands with any American president. A blessing.

The Dalai Lama is not a saint. He's one of the biggest con artists in our lifetime.

Neither are the Chinese and Russian leaders saints either, but at least they are not posing as ones, and no one sees them as one.

The Dalai Lama used to be a slaveholder when he ruled Tibet, he is useful to the CIA because he is opposed to China. That is it. The rest about him being some kind of Buddhist sage is a media creation to engender support for the Free Tibet cause.

[haidian]

China Is Good for Tibet - Newsweek
http://www.newsweek.com/china-good-tibet-75401

[Drawing-slim]

The Dalai Lama is not a saint. He's one of the biggest con artists in our lifetime.

Neither are the Chinese and Russian leaders saints either, but at least they are not posing as ones, and no one sees them as one.

The Dalai Lama used to be a slaveholder when he ruled Tibet, he is useful to the CIA because he is opposed to China. That is it. The rest about him being some kind of Buddhist sage is a media creation to engender support for the Free Tibet cause.
But how is it a media creation when he is a leading Buddhist figure?! Take Articwolf the member here for example! he is 100% slavic=tendency of criminality & savagery, yet because he is a Buddhist is the most peaceful easy going fella in here:D

For real though, when did Tibetans committed mass murder and terrorist acts? Why are they bad guys because they want their own sovereign state? I don't get you people!

[zhaoyun]

But how is it a media creation when he is a leading Buddhist figure?! Take Articwolf the member here for example! he is 100% slavic=tendency of criminality & savagery, yet because he is a Buddhist is the most peaceful easy going fella in here:D

For real though, when did Tibetans committed mass murder and terrorist acts? Why are they bad guys because they want their own sovereign state? I don't get you people!

The Dalai lama is not just a religious figure, he is a political figure. When he ruled Tibet, he was a god king, and owned thousands of slaves. In fact, feudal Tibet was a serfdom where a huge portion of the population were serfs, that's why it was so easy for the PRC to overthrow the Tibetan ruling class because they had many supporters amongst the Tibetan population.

Of course nowadays, he is an exile, so he cannot exercise the same amount of power but you should research his history before talking about something you don't know anything about, I forgive you though as most people are fooled by his media image.

I don't support nor am I against Tibetan independence, but the majority of people in Tibet today do not want independence, they know their livelihoods depend on being a part of the PRC. There is no way that the Tibetan ruling class would have invested the amount of money and effort in building the infrastructure Tibet has today, they were a parasitic elite class feeding off of the Tibetan people and maintaining superstitious overreligiosity as a way to maintain their power for over a millenia.

Of course I'm not saying that the PRC are angels, but they are hardly the devils either. And the Dalai Lama is no angel. The world is not so simple. Just because one person is not a good guy, doesn't make the other person an angel.

Arcticwolf is a practicing Buddhist and not a political figure. Do you really think people who are in the business of maintaining power can practice true Buddhism which is about selflessness? Power controls people and determines their actions. Read about serfdom in Tibet before talking to me again because this conversation is pointless otherwise.

[haidian]

If you are to visit Tibet,I suggest taking this marvelous railway,running on the roof of the world. a miracle in its own right.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=790300&highlight=

[Prisoner Of Ice]

You can say that, but one might also say that:


The British Isles together make a stronger military-strategic landmass, capable of running and defending a huge empire outside its borders


The Irish Republic and its objection to British (not English) rule is unjustified; we are similar peoples divided mainly by religious difference


Irish Secession weakened Britain considerably. It was bad/wrong/unfair for Britain as a whole


British Kings were once crowned in Ireland; there is an inextricable link between our peoples that has been severed by religious demagogues




When did Tibetans lose their ethnic majority?

Oh, bullshit:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demographics

Not really, they weren't genetically the same at all. About as similar as polish and germans. England is 50% germanic, which is totally different from celts. The only reason it looks like that now is that the english have colonized the shit out of it and most the original inhabitants like some of my ancestors were wiped out or sold to slavery.

Nowadays it's made like more of a religious issue but reality is they have taken every excuse to wipe out natives (just like they took every excuse to wipe out the virtually nonexistent highlanders) and even cromwell did not like doing what he was ordered to do in Ireland. So there's a situation where most the actual Irish people and original scottish people are only left in the extreme NW corner as far away from the english as possible - and where actually there's more who fled to US and other places than there are remaining in the homeland!

[Nehellenia]

But how is it a media creation when he is a leading Buddhist figure?! Take Articwolf the member here for example! he is 100% slavic=tendency of criminality & savagery, yet because he is a Buddhist is the most peaceful easy going fella in here:D

For real though, when did Tibetans committed mass murder and terrorist acts? Why are they bad guys because they want their own sovereign state? I don't get you people!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhEWTbgsMJA

This will tell you the truth about Dalai Lama.. :3