Putin orders surprise drills in two military districts

[Äijä]

Putin orders surprise drills in two military districts

Russian President Vladimir Putin instructed the Defence Ministry to hold surprise military exercises to check combat readiness of armed forces in Western and Central Military Districts

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721038

[Äijä]

Good opportunity to check their readiness for others also. :rolleyes:

[Acquisitor]

a non event meant as a semi bluff.

[Hweinlant]

Sabre-rattling for domestic audience. He was totally caught off-guard with the situation at Ukraine.

[Äijä]

a non event meant as a semi bluff.

Its part of the doctrine to attack from drills, you cant be sure if it is a bluff, one day it isnt.

[Äijä]

Sabre-rattling for domestic audience. He was totally caught off-guard with the situation at Ukraine.

We will know soon when we get reactions from Western wimpy politicians, their faces will show if it is for real.

[Acquisitor]

Sabre-rattling for domestic audience. He was totally caught off-guard with the situation at Ukraine.

I can predict what they will show on vesti.ru today, some general with a wide face giving a speech about his troops being ready to serve the motherland and especially being ready for any situation ;)

[Äijä]

You can bet Finnish intel is working overtime, this is gold even if a bluff, they will know by tonight.


This is the interesting guy behind the scenes, same guy that threatened Finland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Yegorovich_Makarov

[Acquisitor]

You can bet Finnish intel is working overtime, this is gold even if a bluff, they will know by tonight.


This is the interesting guy behind the scenes, same guy that threatened Finland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Yegorovich_Makarov

I see his threat has paid off.

[Äijä]

I see his threat has paid off.

Lol, some of these types are crazy for real, Shoigu and Makarov see the world in their own way.

[Acquisitor]

Lol, some of these types are crazy for real, Shoigu and Makarov see the world in their own way.

They see the world as generals should see it and not as painters or musicians.

[Äijä]

They see the world as generals should see it and not as painters or musicians.

They see it different to western generals.

[Acquisitor]

They see it different to western generals.

it can only mean that they are more suitable for the job then under extreme conditions.

When I look at the Belgian army I cant imagine our soldiers killing people should it ever become necessary. However when I look at the Russian army, I have no doubts that they will easily do it. Army is a tool of war and not kindergarten. Unfortunately I think that most European armies are a joke, at least when it comes to lack of morality, which is also a necessity for the army.

[Äijä]

Anyone have this story from other sources? In Finland it came out very fast, some big names are sitting on the news.

[Äijä]

Btw, March 3 is also the time second echelon troops have been equipped in the weapons and equipment storages.

[Illancha]

it can only mean that they are more suitable for the job then under extreme conditions.

When I look at the Belgian army I cant imagine our soldiers killing people should it ever become necessary. However when I look at the Russian army, I have no doubts that they will easily do it. Army is a tool of war and not kindergarten. Unfortunately I think that most European armies are a joke, at least when it comes to lack of morality, which is also a necessity for the army.
Implying that the Russian army is somehow more moral?

All armies are the scum of the Earth.

[Sarmatian]

it can only mean that they are more suitable for the job then under extreme conditions.

When I look at the Belgian army I cant imagine our soldiers killing people should it ever become necessary. However when I look at the Russian army, I have no doubts that they will easily do it. Army is a tool of war and not kindergarten. Unfortunately I think that most European armies are a joke, at least when it comes to lack of morality, which is also a necessity for the army.

Stumbled upon this while searching for info on Russia's preparations

http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/1/5/1/651151.jpg

:heh:

[Acquisitor]

Implying that the Russian army is somehow more moral?

All armies are the scum of the Earth.

implying that the Russian army is less moral, as an army should be. Unfortunately.

Army is an instrument of death, a quick and efficient instrument which does not ask too many questions. Most Western armies excluding the US and the British armies are no longer instruments of death, but a

bunch of guys and girls who see it as a job. I know for sure that if our country is attacked tomorrow then most of our soldiers will resign from the forces instead of risking their lives while fulfilling the contract they have singed.

Our Belgian soldiers for example are usually used for the following things: to help old ladies to pump water from their basement when there is a flood, or to run around Lebanon clearing old mines.

[Zmey Gorynych]

I can predict what they will show on vesti.ru today, some general with a wide face giving a speech about his troops being ready to serve the motherland and especially being ready for any situation ;)
Shame Lebed died, he had it all - the very wide face and the very abrupt interviews :)

[Hweinlant]

Russia will not attack. Ukraine is no Georgia. It's a country of 45 million people. There are millions of Ukrainians at Russia and quite obviously millions of Russians at Ukraine. Attack on Ukraine means automatic de-stabilization of Russia.

[Sarmatian]

Russia will not attack. Ukraine is no Georgia. It's a country of 45 million people. There are millions of Ukrainians at Russia and quite obviously millions of Russians at Ukraine. Attack on Ukraine means automatic de-stabilization of Russia.

If Russia will attack at least 1/3 of current Ukraine will join the forces with it. And together they will wipe out those Bandera's worshipers for at least another 50-60 years.

[Äijä]

Russia will not attack. Ukraine is no Georgia. It's a country of 45 million people. There are millions of Ukrainians at Russia and quite obviously millions of Russians at Ukraine. Attack on Ukraine means automatic de-stabilization of Russia.

But they believe Ukrainian EU membership means automatic de-stabilization of Russia, they want to orchestrate it so that they get Crimea and Donetsk.
Expect attacks on Russian nationals, it was good luck there was a drill going on the same time just next door. :rolleyes:
If Putin can twist some excuse to go in that US or NATO cant really be against, they went to Afganistan, he is considered a hero by many Russians.

Everyone is still buying Russian gas after Georgia, if all works well for Russia they will gain a huge geopolitical win, they are tempted about the prospect for sure.

Would be good if EU breaks up on this crisis, I will send Putin a thank you card.

[Hweinlant]

If Russia will attack at least 1/3 of current Ukraine will join the forces with it. And together they will wipe out those Bandera's worshipers for at least another 50-60 years.

Russia would very likely take over Ukraine in matter of weeks/days in current turmoil. The thing just is that the de-stabilization of Russia would start immediately and only get worse during the occupation. The War would not stay inside Ukrainian borders, it would quickly spread to Russia as well. Your much loathed "Banderaists" would be blowing up Russian gas delivery network left and right. Russian economy would go through major meltdown, not only because of disruptions on gas delivery but also because occupation is extremely expensive. West would pull back all investments from Russia (risk to do business too high). Outcome of any Russian invasion would make people remember the economical situation of 1990's as the good old days. Actually the best option for Russia is that EU will play ball and take part of the "Operation Save Ukrainian Economy From Total Collapse". Russia is the most exposed country that collapse. It's guaranteed to drag Russia down for atleast decade.

[Acquisitor]

Russia would very likely take over Ukraine in matter of weeks/days in current turmoil. The thing just is that the de-stabilization of Russia would start immediately and only get worse during the occupation. The War would not stay inside Ukrainian borders, it would quickly spread to Russia as well. Your much loathed "Banderaists" would be blowing up Russian gas delivery network left and right. Russian economy would go through major meltdown, not only because of disruptions on gas delivery but also because occupation is extremely expensive. West would pull back all investments from Russia (risk to do business too high). Outcome of any Russian invasion would make people remember the economical situation of 1990's as the good old days. Actually the best option for Russia is that EU will play ball and take part of the "Operation Save Ukrainian Economy From Total Collapse". Russia is the most exposed country that collapse. It's guaranteed to drag Russia down for atleast decade.

how is it guaranteed to drag them down for a decade ? don't they have like $600b in savings and cant they just recapitalize the banks if it becomes a necessity ?

[ALL]

Looks like Tartars want Ukraine. Tartar protests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqnj0DV4eg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhmiP7Bif-s

[RussiaPrussia]

Looks like Tartars want Ukraine. Tartar protests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqnj0DV4eg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhmiP7Bif-s

they are idiots, if ukrainian fascists come to power they will be completely Ukrainianized. Crimea could be an own independent state with tatarian language as an official one. But these twats are too russophobic to get it, they rather would want to die with russians then life

[Pure ja]

Putin orders surprise drills in two military districts

Russian President Vladimir Putin instructed the Defence Ministry to hold surprise military exercises to check combat readiness of armed forces in Western and Central Military Districts

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721038

That is the kind of escalation of tensions that was discussed about earlier.
The Western District includes the Baltic fleet and the Pskov division. One gets the impression that RF plans to attack Crimea through Estonia and Latvia. Or even via the Barents Sea and Svalbard.

[Pure ja]

Its part of the doctrine to attack from drills, you cant be sure if it is a bluff, one day it isnt.

Russia has had that doctrine since before WWII, at least.

[Pure ja]

I can predict what they will show on vesti.ru today, some general with a wide face giving a speech about his troops being ready to serve the motherland and especially being ready for any situation ;)

The choice of districts is too obvious.
RF should have chosen Chukotka.

[Äijä]

That is the kind of escalation of tensions that was discussed about earlier.
The Western District includes the Baltic fleet and the Pskov division. One gets the impression that RF plans to attack Crimea through Estonia and Latvia. Or even via the Barents Sea and Svalbard.

They are just keeping NATO in check so they are free to act in the Ukrainian theater if needed, but interesting for analysis purpose for us.

[Pure ja]

Anyone have this story from other sources? In Finland it came out very fast, some big names are sitting on the news.

It was news in Estonia as well, at around 16.25 (so with a delay).

[Xenomorph]

At the very most, Crimea will secede and join Russia. That being said, I think Ukraine can stop this simply by affirming the rights of Russian citizens.

[RussiaPrussia]

At the very most, Crimea will secede and join Russia. That being said, I think Ukraine can stop this simply by affirming the rights of Russian citizens.

no, crimea would be independent country like south ossetia. Russians arent like barbaric Nato/EU countries than keep expanding

[Acquisitor]

no, crimea would be independent country like south ossetia. Russians arent like barbaric Nato/EU countries than keep expanding

oh and that map of ancient russia is invalid then :)

http://www.stamp-collecting-world.com/images/Russia_Kievan_Rus_Map.jpg

[Sarmatian]

...Expect attacks on Russian nationals, ...

Highly doubtful. There is no way even Ukrainians can distinguish themselves from Russians. Spoken language doesn't mean anything because most of the country speaks Russian anyway.

[RussiaPrussia]

oh and that map of ancient russia is invalid then :)

http://www.stamp-collecting-world.com/images/Russia_Kievan_Rus_Map.jpg

its ukrainian history, russian history began with mongols. Since the genocide by mongolian holocaust we got the right to their land like the jews have the right to israel.

[Acquisitor]

its ukrainian history, russian history began with mongols. Since the genocide by mongolian holocaust we got the right to their land like the jews have the right to israel.

and what about all those hundreds of nations living in Siberia and the Caucasus ? did they beg to become a part of Russia ?

[Sarmatian]

Russia would very likely take over Ukraine in matter of weeks/days in current turmoil. The thing just is that the de-stabilization of Russia would start immediately and only get worse during the occupation. The War would not stay inside Ukrainian borders, it would quickly spread to Russia as well. Your much loathed "Banderaists" would be blowing up Russian gas delivery network left and right. Russian economy would go through major meltdown, not only because of disruptions on gas delivery but also because occupation is extremely expensive. West would pull back all investments from Russia (risk to do business too high). Outcome of any Russian invasion would make people remember the economical situation of 1990's as the good old days. Actually the best option for Russia is that EU will play ball and take part of the "Operation Save Ukrainian Economy From Total Collapse". Russia is the most exposed country that collapse. It's guaranteed to drag Russia down for atleast decade.

Banderovtsi have no chance for any significant success on Russian territory because of three factors:

1) Russian oil/gas companies have enough money to employ literally an army of private security agents to keep everyone away from the pipes

2) In last 20 years Russian enforcement agencies became extremely efficient in anti-guerrilla operations thanks to events at Caucasus

3) Just a mention of Banderovtsi means for authorities something about 200% of support by local population in an instant, absolutely everyone will be eager to participate in the hunt for Banderovtsi :laugh:

Meanwhile Russian army will receive significant support from locals on Ukrainian territories. Radical Ukrainian nationalists can't pose a serious threat to Russia.

[RussiaPrussia]

and what about all those hundreds of nations living in Siberia and the Caucasus ? did they beg to become a part of Russia ?

Siberians are our relatives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBQqoLQTot0

all these minorities helped the mongols

[Cleitus]

WWIII ??

[Äijä]

NATO is having a meeting, someone must have gotten an analysis that Russia might not care what others think vs Russian long term interests and present window of opportunity.

[Xenomorph]

no, crimea would be independent country like south ossetia. Russians arent like barbaric Nato/EU countries than keep expanding

No, it's not. Crimea is recognized as part of Ukraine by every country on the planet. And South Ossetia isn't independent, it's been annexed by Russia.

[Acquisitor]

NATO is having a meeting, someone must have gotten an analysis that Russia might not care what others think vs Russian long term interests and present window of opportunity.

the russian side of my head thinks that Crimea should be taken for the following reasons:

1) it used to be a part of Rusia til 195x when Khruschev decided to make a very generous gift to Ukrainian SSR.
2) it can easily be taken now
3) the world can't do anything about it. Sanctioning Russia is mission impossible without risking a dramatic increase in energy prices which the slowly recovering world economy can't afford.

[Äijä]

the russian side of my head thinks that Crimea should be taken for the following reasons:

1) it used to be a part of Rusia til 195x when Khruschev decided to make a very generous gift to Ukrainian SSR.
2) it can easily be taken now
3) the world can't do anything about it. Sanctioning Russia is mission impossible without risking a dramatic increase in energy prices which the slowly recovering world economy can't afford.

Yep, and I am actually not against it in principal, Russia should just give back Karelia. :rolleyes:

Peaceful solution for Donetsk and Crimea would have been better going future, this could go out of control if ethnic Russians in other places start asking for intervention.

[Hweinlant]

Banderovtsi have no chance for any significant success on Russian territory because of three factors:

1) Russian oil/gas companies have enough money to employ literally an army of private security agents to keep everyone away from the pipes


They don't have to operate at Russian soil in order to cause severe disruptions to gas delivery.
http://en.ria.ru/images/15520/63/155206369.jpg



3) Just a mention of Banderovtsi means for authorities something about 200% of support by local population in an instant, absolutely everyone will be eager to participate in the hunt for Banderovtsi :laugh:


There's Banderovtsi under your bed :scared:

[Acquisitor]

Yep, and I am actually not against it in principal, Russia should just give back Karelia. :rolleyes:

does the current russian government even want to negotiate about Karelia ? or is it "its ours now, fuck off" ?

[glass]

once South Stream is completed, this map becomes irrelevant.

[glass]

Russia should just give back Karelia. :rolleyes:

a few tens years of swedish occupation and Alexander I kindness do not make Karelia any finnish:eek:

[Äijä]

does the current russian government even want to negotiate about Karelia ? or is it "its ours now, fuck off" ?

See above. :rolleyes:

[Äijä]

a few tens years of swedish occupation and Alexander I kindness do not make Karelia any finnish:eek:

Well not many Russians there before Winter War, like ever.

[Acquisitor]

Well not many Russians there before Winter War, like ever.

what happened to the native population of Karelia anyway ? did the Soviets issue them passports or were they smart enough to run before arrival of the red army ?

[RussiaPrussia]

No, it's not. Crimea is recognized as part of Ukraine by every country on the planet. And South Ossetia isn't independent, it's been annexed by Russia.

so by your logic is kosvo annexed by european union because they adopted the Euro?

Youre best example of western hypocrites

[Äijä]

what happened to the native population of Karelia anyway ? did the Soviets issue them passports or were they smart enough to run before arrival of the red army ?

We evacuated and resettled them.


the resettlers were subsidized. Families were allocated land in proportion to their former property. In addition, everyone evacuated from Karelia had the right to receive a homestead. In addition, the city-dwellers and business-owners were given a monetary compensation. The right to homestead was extended also to other groups: veterans of war, widows and orphans of war.

the private owners of the land given to resettlers were monetarily compensated for the loss of real estate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_of_Finnish_Karelia

Russia could have the best neighbour in Finland, not just a business partner but Russia as a nation only wants to dominate, Finns have a long memory.

[RussiaPrussia]

what happened to the native population of Karelia anyway ? did the Soviets issue them passports or were they smart enough to run before arrival of the red army ?

soviet union didnt need nationality they could just freed any countries that oppressed its workers to justify war

[Didriksson]

wrong thread... sorry

[RussiaPrussia]

once South Stream is completed, this map becomes irrelevant.

once pipelines in asia are completed whole europe is irrelevant

[glass]

Well not many Russians there before Winter War, like ever.
it means nothing, Karelia was always Novgorod territory, karelians were always allied with Novgorod and fought many wars with proper finns. Karelia was ceded to Sweden during Time of Troubles, Russia got it back after Great northern war, Alexander included Karelia as well as some other territories into duchy of Finland, just like Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine, they both did not think borders of Russian Empire / USSR would change in future. I do not really understand fantasies about Karelia some finns have...

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Russia will not attack. Ukraine is no Georgia. It's a country of 45 million people. There are millions of Ukrainians at Russia and quite obviously millions of Russians at Ukraine. Attack on Ukraine means automatic de-stabilization of Russia.

I am sure this is intentional scare tactic/sword rattling. China has been doing that a lot lately, too. I am not sure the US can easily intercede in Ukraine anyway, but like you say this is not like taking on some afghan goat herders. People forget Kiev was as populous or more than russia back in history, and people are very smart and tough as well.

[Äijä]

it means nothing, Karelia was always Novgorod territory, karelians were always allied with Novgorod and fought many wars with proper finns. Karelia was ceded to Sweden during Time of Troubles, Russia got it back after Great northern war, Alexander included Karelia as well as some other territories in duchy of Finland, just like Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine, they both did not think borders of Russian Empire / USSR would change in future. I do not really understand fantasies about Karelia some finns have...

Lol, Tavastians where in Ladoga in the Viking ages also, and Russia is not Novgorod.
Those Karelians fled to Finland from the Mongol Muscovites, East Finns are Novgorod Rus.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

the russian side of my head thinks that Crimea should be taken for the following reasons:

1) it used to be a part of Rusia til 195x when Khruschev decided to make a very generous gift to Ukrainian SSR.
2) it can easily be taken now
3) the world can't do anything about it. Sanctioning Russia is mission impossible without risking a dramatic increase in energy prices which the slowly recovering world economy can't afford.

If they want it they are welcome to it but I doubt that's more than a footnote to them. Kiev is big deal for the area, and its farmland more so.

[Harkonnen]

what happened to the native population of Karelia anyway ? did the Soviets issue them passports or were they smart enough to run before arrival of the red army ?

Most were relocated. My family (paternal) btw was filthy rich before Russians stole our fortunes. We owned a lot of land and had all kind of busineses there. According to family lore my ggrandaddy bought the very first automobile in all of Karelia. My maternal side were regular peasants though and according to my mother the farm they were given in replacement to the one lost was actually in many ways a better one.

[Äijä]

My grandmother is from Karelia, nice size farm in the shores of Lake Ladoga.

[Acquisitor]

Most were relocated. My family (paternal) btw was filthy rich before Russians stole our fortunes. We owned a lot of land and had all kind of busineses there. According to family lore my ggrandaddy bought the very first automobile in Karelia. My maternal side were regular peasants though and according to my mother the farm they were given in replacement to the one lost was actually in many ways a better one.

why don't you sue the state of Russia for the loss of property ?

[Hweinlant]

how is it guaranteed to drag them down for a decade ? don't they have like $600b in savings and cant they just recapitalize the banks if it becomes a necessity ?

Russian economic exposure to Ukraine is not limited to just banks. Ukrainian economy is basically extension of Russian economy. Ukraine imports about third of all stuff from Russia. Meanwhile something like 25% of Ukraine's exports are to Russia. This is significant portion of economy in both countries. Not even German and French economies are so intertwined. Imagine if France would go belly up, Germans would defo feel the pain. In case of Russia and Ukraine, the pain is much more. EU wouldn't even notice if Ukraine disappeared from the map, as long as the gas pipes function :D

Here's pretty nice tool to make sense about trade relations between countries:
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/country/rus/

[Acquisitor]

soviet union didnt need nationality they could just freed any countries that oppressed its workers to justify war

why does this answer have to do with my question ?

[Äijä]

why don't you sue the state of Russia for the loss of property ?

Lol. :D

They should give back Petsamo at least so we could have gas and oil also, that would make up for it.
But that is too close to Murmansk, and Finland is too close to St.Petersburg, always the same story, that is the reason IMO we need nukes to be safe.

[Acquisitor]

Lol. :D

They should give back Petsamo at least so we could have gas and oil also, that would make up for it.
But that is too close to Murmansk, and Finland is too close to St.Petersburg, always the same story, that is the reason IMO we need nukes to be safe.

why don't you hire a lawyer and sue Russia for the loss of wealth by your family ? In an international court. I'm serious.

[Harkonnen]

why don't you sue the state of Russia for the loss of property ?

Seems like a waste of money to me ;)

[Acquisitor]

Seems like a waste of money to me ;)

there have been many successful lawsuits against the state of Russia in the past. Personal lawsuits I mean.

There is a clear cause = invasion and a clear loss = loss of property.

[Hweinlant]

There is a clear cause = invasion and a clear loss = loss of property.

There have been lawsuits made against Russian Federation in Russian courts about the situation(ie. Finnish Citizen's ownership to buildings and lands in area that was stolen by Soviet Union). Russian courts do not want to handle them, thusfar they have cancelled all the cases, claiming that Russian Federation can not handle the issue because it was matter between Finland and Soviet Union and since Soviet Union does not exist anymore.. case closed, no further action. It's all political.

[Pure ja]

Banderovtsi have no chance for any significant success on Russian territory because of three factors:

1) Russian oil/gas companies have enough money to employ literally an army of private security agents to keep everyone away from the pipes

2) In last 20 years Russian enforcement agencies became extremely efficient in anti-guerrilla operations thanks to events at Caucasus

3) Just a mention of Banderovtsi means for authorities something about 200% of support by local population in an instant, absolutely everyone will be eager to participate in the hunt for Banderovtsi :laugh:

Meanwhile Russian army will receive significant support from locals on Ukrainian territories. Radical Ukrainian nationalists can't pose a serious threat to Russia.

Russians weren't so attentive when the Mažeikiai pipe was blown up - in Russia.

[Acquisitor]

There have been lawsuits made against Russian Federation in Russian courts about the situation(ie. Finnish Citizen's ownership to buildings and lands in area that was stolen by Soviet Union). Russian courts do not want to handle them, thusfar they have cancelled all the cases, claiming that Russian Federation can not handle the issue because it was matter between Finland and Soviet Union and since Soviet Union does not exist anymore.. case closed, no further action. It's all political.

Hasn't Russia accepted responsibility for all the financial debts of Soviet Union ? which it repaid later. I understand this is not a financial debt, but still there should be an international court which can make the country responsible for its actions.

[Pure ja]

once pipelines in asia are completed whole europe is irrelevant

Once EU adopts Passivhouses and renewables and smart grid, Russia becomes largely irrelevant.

[Pure ja]

it means nothing, Karelia was always Novgorod territory


Karelia and karelians were not part of the founding pjatnitsas. Nevertheless, at least 3 of the 5 founding pjatnitsas were predominantly finnic at the time.

[BeerBaron]

Lovely looks like the americans are going back to war.

[Pure ja]

Most were relocated. My family (paternal) btw was filthy rich before Russians stole our fortunes. We owned a lot of land and had all kind of busineses there. According to family lore my ggrandaddy bought the very first automobile in all of Karelia. My maternal side were regular peasants though and according to my mother the farm they were given in replacement to the one lost was actually in many ways a better one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVQzFmzAUT4

[RussiaPrussia]

Once EU adopts Passivhouses and renewables and smart grid, Russia becomes largely irrelevant.

hoho, :lol:

dude you can wait millenniums. Renewable energies is a marketing trick invented by the germans so you buy their shit. Their arent also renewable, wind turbines need a lot of steel which comes from russia as well. There isnt that many steel and other resources in the world to build wind turbines everywhere therefor they arent really renewable in a sense

europe is also running out from oil in the comming days

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/markadomanis/files/2013/08/Russia-US-Europe-Oil.png

[Pure ja]

hoho, :lol:

dude you can wait millenniums. Renewable energies is a marketing trick invented by the germans so you buy their shit. Their arent also renewable, wind turbines need a lot of steel which comes from russia as well. There isnt that many steel and other resources in the world to build wind turbines everywhere therefor they arent really renewable in a sense

europe is also running out from oil in the comming days

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/markadomanis/files/2013/08/Russia-US-Europe-Oil.png

Most projections see more than 50% of energy coming from renewables by 2050. Some project even above 80%.

[BeerBaron]

You sound like sabina

[BeerBaron]

Europe isnt running out of oil oil goes on the world market and is bidded upon thats true with everywhere its an international agreement

[Prisoner Of Ice]

hoho, :lol:

dude you can wait millenniums. Renewable energies is a marketing trick invented by the germans so you buy their shit. Their arent also renewable, wind turbines need a lot of steel which comes from russia as well. There isnt that many steel and other resources in the world to build wind turbines everywhere therefor they arent really renewable in a sense

europe is also running out from oil in the comming days

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/markadomanis/files/2013/08/Russia-US-Europe-Oil.png

Almost the whole planet is made of iron, but there's only so many decent places for windmills.

[RussiaPrussia]

Almost the whole planet is made of iron, but there's only so many decent places for windmills.

the iron is the ground what we would call hell 200 years ago

[Äijä]

Lovely looks like the americans are going back to war.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR7okLvymFw

[epirot]

Putin orders surprise drills in two military districts

Russian President Vladimir Putin instructed the Defence Ministry to hold surprise military exercises to check combat readiness of armed forces in Western and Central Military Districts

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721038

your tatarland is next...

[Hweinlant]

Hasn't Russia accepted responsibility for all the financial debts of Soviet Union ? which it repaid later. I understand this is not a financial debt, but still there should be an international court which can make the country responsible for its actions.

Indeed there is, ECHR (http://echr.coe.int/Documents/CP_Russia_ENG.pdf) , which Russia is also member. Lawyers of those Finnish citizen quite naturally did complain to ECHR about the judgement (or rather lack of it) of Russian court. ECHR rules clearly state that before you can complain to ECHR, the original case must have been through all stages/instances of local courts. Those cases didn't even go through the first instance in Russia, not mention all 4 or 5 different court instances of Russia. ECHR is not eligible to handle the case. So as long as the Russian court refuses to handle the case and pass it through all instances, there can be no complaint to ECHR :crazy:

Russian court will not handle the case, as even one won case for Finnish citizens means that RF has to return ownership of everything at Karelian Isthmus to Finnish citizens. Only those buildings and land areas which were explicitly property of Republic of Finland have been legally transferred to ownership of Soviet Union. Everything that was once owned by Finnish citizens, corporations or Lutheran Church, are still their legal property per peace treaty of Paris 1947.

http://prokarelia.net/en/?x=artikkeli&article_id=1468&author=10

It's pretty clear that there are no such thing as free courts in Russia. Courts must have been ordered from Kreml to cancel all the cases.

[RussiaPrussia]

Indeed there is, ECHR (http://echr.coe.int/Documents/CP_Russia_ENG.pdf) , which Russia is also member. Lawyers of those Finnish citizen quite naturally did complain to ECHR about the judgement (or rather lack of it) of Russian court. ECHR rules clearly state that before you can complain to ECHR, the original case must have been through all stages/instances of local courts. Those cases didn't even go through the first instance in Russia, not mention all 4 or 5 different court instances of Russia. ECHR is not eligible to handle the case. So as long as the Russian court refuses to handle the case and pass it through all instances, there can be no complaint to ECHR :crazy:

Russian court will not handle the case, as even one won case for Finnish citizens means that RF has to return ownership of everything at Karelian Isthmus to Finnish citizens. Only those buildings and land areas which were explicitly property of Republic of Finland have been legally transferred to ownership of Soviet Union. Everything that was once owned by Finnish citizens, corporations or Lutheran Church, are still their legal property per peace treaty of Paris 1947.

http://prokarelia.net/en/?x=artikkeli&article_id=1468&author=10

It's pretty clear that there are no such thing as free courts in Russia. Courts must have been ordered from Kreml to cancel all the cases.

you guys should pay repayment for ww2 support for nazims which killed 27 million russians

[Acquisitor]

you guys should pay repayment for ww2 support for nazims which killed 27 million russians

lol you cant blame Finland for supporting the Nazi's. They were brutally attacked by SU, a part of the their territory was stolen, many of them were killed. Naturally they supported the nazi's, so would you in their place.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I think I should sue the English government for title to my ancient ancestral lands in Ireland. Also, I will lobby to have denial of the Irish genocide and slavery made a hate crime, so I can have KidMulat thrown in jail for disagreeing with me on the internet....

[RussiaPrussia]

lol you cant blame Finland for supporting the Nazi's. They were brutally attacked by SU, a part of the their territory was stolen, many of them were killed. Naturally they supported the nazi's, so would you in their place.

nope i would support the communist because they support global communist government were everyone lifes in peace harmony and equality with no need for nationalities

[Acquisitor]

nope i would support the communist because they support global communist government were everyone lifes in peace harmony and equality with no need for nationalities

oh so you are a commie now ;) I guess you have realized that you will never find a job (who would hire you?), and that getting stuff for free is the only alternative. good thinking.

[Hweinlant]

lol you cant blame Finland for supporting the Nazi's. They were brutally attacked by SU, a part of the their territory was stolen, many of them were killed. Naturally they supported the nazi's, so would you in their place.

Finland did not support nazis, there wasn't even nazi movement or party of any sort at Finland. It was Nazi regime who supported Finland. Major difference. To be precise, Soviet Union attacked Finland, per their agreement with Nazi regime. Finland caused major humiliation to commies -> Nazi regime switched their allegiance from commies to Finland.

[Acquisitor]

Finland did not support nazis, there wasn't even nazi movement or party of any sort at Finland. It was Nazi regime who supported Finland. Major difference. To be precise, Soviet Union attacked Finland, per their agreement with Nazi regime. Finland caused major humiliation to commies -> Nazi regime switched their allegiance from commies to Finland.

I know history quite well, but thanks :)

you know the "winter war" was educated to students in USSR as "we needed land to protect Leningrad, but the Finns wouldn't give it to us, that's why we had to take it by force while suffering many casualties, however as compensation Finland received a much bigger piece of land on the north side"

[Zmey Gorynych]

So, if everything goes tits up will the russkies settle for Crimea only or will they go for Donetsk and Luhansk, maybe Harkov too !?

[glass]

however as compensation Finland received a much bigger piece of land on the north side"
really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Finnish_areas_ceded_in_1940.png

[Hweinlant]

I know history quite well, but thanks :)


I know you know, I just corrected your wording a bit ;)



you know the "winter war" was educated to students in USSR as "we needed land to protect Leningrad, but the Finns wouldn't give it to us, that's why we had to take it by force while suffering many casualties, however as compensation Finland received a much bigger piece of land on the north side"

Yeah, it wasn't until very recently Russia started to openly speak about Winter War and Continuation War. There's still lot of Soviet lies floating around. I have book about Winter War from Soviet perspective (very recent book, from 2012, written by Russian historian Bair Irincheev), based on the letters soldiers sent home and few (surviving) letters which were caught by the censorship. It's a cruel book and likely the first totally honest Russian take on Winter War.

[RussiaPrussia]

oh so you are a commie now ;) I guess you have realized that you will never find a job (who would hire you?), and that getting stuff for free is the only alternative. good thinking.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?115956-Its-good-to-have-3-5-billion-very-poor-people-in-the-world

no i support it because its better than what idiots like you support

[Acquisitor]

really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Finnish_areas_ceded_in_1940.png

I said "this is how it was educated to us, this is what my soviet teach told us" :)

[RussiaPrussia]

I know you know, I just corrected your wording a bit ;)



Yeah, it wasn't until very recently Russia started to openly speak about Winter War and Continuation War. There's still lot of Soviet lies floating around. I have book about Winter War from Soviet perspective (very recent book, from 2012, written by Russian historian Bair Irincheev), based on the letters soldiers sent home and few (surviving) letters which were caught by the censorship. It's a cruel book and likely the first totally honest Russian take on Winter War.

the only one lying to themselves are nazi supporters like fins

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?116772-German-War-crimes-against-Russians-the-ignored-27-Million-Holocaust-in-Russia-Ukraine-and-Belarus&p=2445678

[Hweinlant]

really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Finnish_areas_ceded_in_1940.png

A Stalinist lie. He demanded Karelian Isthmus (including city of Viipuri) from Finland and offered some backwoods from northern Ladoga in exchange. That deal never happened as Finland obviously didn't want to give large industrial center and third largest city in exchange of backwoods. Finland would also never have left it's citizens under Soviet rule, not after the genocide of Ingrian Finns by bolsheviks.

[RussiaPrussia]

I said "this is how it was educated by to us, this is what my soviet teach told us" :)

american teacher told american kids to crouch down and take cover if a nuclear bomb hits you, dont believe everything what teachers tell you

[Äijä]

really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Finnish_areas_ceded_in_1940.png

Im sure it is there somewhere, Soviet schoolbooks dont lie, we should claim it.

[glass]

I said "this is how it was educated by to us, this is what my soviet teach told us" :)
you confuse results of war and pre-war soviet proposal
SU offered to finns terriotory exchange, finns refused so SU launched a war campaign, finns were defeated and gave away much bigger territory than SU initially demanded without any compensation

[RussiaPrussia]

A Stalinist lie. He demanded Karelian Isthmus (including city of Viipuri) from Finland and offered some backwoods from northern Ladoga in exchange. That deal never happened as Finland obviously didn't want to give large industrial center and third largest city in exchange of backwoods. Finland would also never have left it's citizens under Soviet rule, not after the genocide of Ingrian Finns by bolsheviks.

you did genocide to russians you supported the genocide in saint petersburg siege where millions of russians died
you hypocrite

[Acquisitor]

btw this act of aggression by USSR showed Hitler how weak the Soviet army was, and the impression USSR's army left in Finland increased his certainty that USSR could be defeated.

[Äijä]

A Stalinist lie. He demanded Karelian Isthmus (including city of Viipuri) from Finland and offered some backwoods from northern Ladoga in exchange. That deal never happened as Finland obviously didn't want to give large industrial center and third largest city in exchange of backwoods. Finland would also never have left it's citizens under Soviet rule, not after the genocide of Ingrian Finns by bolsheviks.

Viipuri, Enso, what percentage of the industrial output was it at that time? Must have been huge, that water power would be great even today.

[Acquisitor]

you confuse results of war and pre-war soviet proposal
SU offered to finns terriotory exchange, finns refused so SU launched a war campaign, finns were defeated and gave away much bigger territory than SU initially demanded without any compensation

"this is what our teacher told us in the late 80's".

[RussiaPrussia]

btw this act of aggression by USSR showed Hitler how weak the Soviet army was, and the impression USSR's army left in Finland increased his certainty that USSR could be defeated.

fins were not weak, hitler was idiot

[Äijä]

you did genocide to russians you supported the genocide in saint petersburg siege where millions of russians died
you hypocrite

Lol, they would all be dead and the city destroyed if Finns wanted that.

[RussiaPrussia]

Lol, they would all be dead and the city destroyed if Finns wanted that.

they were almost, which resulted in million deaths and huge distraction of the city. So you recognize your crimes on russians?

[Äijä]

fins were not weak, hitler was idiot

Not in our genetical, mental and moral superiority, but in equipment we had nothing, we invented the Molotov cocktail.
They stopped tanks by hands using logs in the tracks, then waited for the crew to come out.

[Acquisitor]

the most cynical act of the winter was was IMO the bombing of Helsinki by Soviet Union. They didn't target any military targets but the city in general, killing civilians.
that was bad.


In 1939 the Soviet Foreign Minister, Vyacheslav Molotov, claimed Russia was not dropping bombs on Finland, but merely airlifting food to starving Finns. The Finns, who were not starving[citation needed], soon dubbed the RRAB-3 cluster bomb "Molotov's bread basket", and named the improvised incendiary device that they used to counter Soviet tanks the "Molotov cocktail", as "a drink to go with the food".

= disgusting

[Äijä]

they were almost, which resulted in million deaths and huge distraction of the city. So you recognize your crimes on russians?

Lol, who left civilians in the city, Stalin, blame him.

[Hweinlant]

you confuse results of war and pre-war soviet proposal
SU offered to finns terriotory exchange, finns refused so SU launched a war campaign, finns were defeated and gave away much bigger territory than SU initially demanded without any compensation

Stalin wasn't serious about the territory exchange in the first place. He had a pact with Nazis, which allowed him to take over all of Finland, not just the border region. Soviet plan was march over Finland, heck, the officers were even given orders how to behave when they reach Swedish border. His offer was backwoods from middle of nowhere, exchanged to large industrial center with Finland's third largest city and population of some 400.000 Finns. Do you think he seriously thought Finns will accept ? No he didn't. It was a bluff to start the war against Finland, occupy it and join to Soviet Union. This all per Commie-Nazi pact (Molotov-Ribbentrop pact) which you surely are aware.

Commies even founded new government for Finland :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Democratic_Republic



The Soviet Union argued that it was the only rightful government for all of Finland that was capable of ending the Winter War and restoring peace. However, before the end of the war, the Soviets gave up this interpretation to make peace with the preexisting government of Finland still recognized by the rest of the world.

[Äijä]

the most cynical act of the winter was was IMO the bombing of Helsinki by Soviet Union. They didn't target any military targets but the city in general, killing civilians.
that was bad.

In 1944 they tried to firebomb Helsinki, did not work out like planned, so they destroyed Tallin instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Helsinki_in_World_War_II#The_great_raid s_of_February_1944

[Acquisitor]

history is quite ugly hé... jeez

[Acquisitor]

lol seeing persistently RP thumbs down everything he doesn't like one can assume that Russia must be this place which is not only perfect in its present, but also in his past. Russia or any Russian has never done anything "wrong", it was all perfect, it is all perfect now, and it will forever be perfect.

RP why don't you read "Master and Margarita" or so ? download it and read it. I also recommend this book to everyone else btw.

[RussiaPrussia]

Stalin wasn't serious about the territory exchange in the first place. He had a pact with Nazis, which allowed him to take over all of Finland, not just the border region. Soviet plan was march over Finland, heck, the officers were even given orders how to behave when they reach Swedish border. His offer was backwoods from middle of nowhere, exchanged to large industrial center with Finland's third largest city and population of some 400.000 Finns. Do you think he seriously thought Finns will accept ? No he didn't. It was a bluff to start the war against Finland, occupy it and join to Soviet Union. This all per Commie-Nazi pact (Molotov-Ribbetrop pact) which you surely are aware.

Commies even founded new government for Finland :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Democratic_Republic

and some fins supported it funny isnt it? if russians are so evil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Ville_Kuusinen#cite_note-Rayfield1-13

[RussiaPrussia]

lol seeing persistently RP thumbs down everything he doesn't like one can assume that Russia must be this place which is not only perfect in its present, but also in his past. Russia or any Russian has never done anything "wrong", it was all perfect, it is all perfect now, and it will forever be perfect.

stop talking about russia, go on to another topic, like russia is unavoidable? You guys have to think 24/7 about russia or what? You say i am obsessed but its you who are obsessed here with russia.

[Äijä]

and some fins supported it funny isnt it? if russians are so evil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Ville_Kuusinen#cite_note-Rayfield1-13

Otto Ville is buried in the Kreml, he was an international Communist.

[RussiaPrussia]

Lol, who left civilians in the city, Stalin, blame him.

yeah stalin is to blame for forcing russians to fight against their own genocide?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

[Acquisitor]

stop talking about russia, go on to another topic, like russia is unavoidable? You guys have to think 24/7 about russia or what? You say i am obsessed but its you who are obsessed here with russia.

shouldn't you be flattered ? Russia is on the news at this moment, so naturally there is talk about it, wait until some Palestinian blows himself up leaving 3 kids behind and discuss all you want about the poor orphans.

[RussiaPrussia]

Otto Ville is buried in the Kreml, he was an international Communist.

a true visionary not like nationalistic scum like you

[Acquisitor]

a true visionary not like nationalistic scum like you

you must be a true visionary as well right ? You are not nationalistic scum at all.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Can someone get a muzzle for RussiaPrussia !? Every second post is his ...

[Sarmatian]

So, if everything goes tits up will the russkies settle for Crimea only or will they go for Donetsk and Luhansk, maybe Harkov too !?

I think it's all depends on success of the movement in Crimea and sentiments of populations of other regions of Ukraine. At the end Ukraine may lose territories all the way to Odessa. They not necessarily will join Russia but may form their own autonomy with Russian support.

In any case chances of Russian forces getting involved are very slim and depends on many factors. But chances of civil war starting at Ukraine are real and almost inevitable with current attitudes of all different sides.

[RussiaPrussia]

Can someone get a muzzle for RussiaPrussia !? Every second post is his ...

i am just responding, its not my fault if so many people here are russophobic

[Acquisitor]

i am just responding, its not my fault if so many people here are russophobic

nobody here is rusophobic, you are just obsessed and any criticism is perceived as "rossophobic" by your brain.

in Russian they say "if everyone smells like shit, maybe its your who shitted in his pants?". According to you everyone stinks like shit, some more and some less.

you are obsessed and it clogs your perception of reality.

everything can be praised and criticized. And it should be, and it includes Russia with its very interesting history. Many foreigners on TA are interested in our history as you may have noticed, and the reason is that Russian/Soviet history is very interesting. And it should be discussed as everything that poses interest.

[RussiaPrussia]

in Russian they say "if everyone smells like shit, maybe its your who shitted in his pants?". According to you everyone stinks like shit, some more and some less.


thats a mexican saying

[Zmey Gorynych]

I think it's all depends on success of the movement in Crimea and sentiments of populations of other regions of Ukraine. At the end Ukraine may lose territories all the way to Odessa. They not necessarily will join Russia but may form their own autonomy with Russian support.

In any case chances of Russian forces getting involved are very slim and depends on many factors. But chances of civil war starting at Ukraine are real and almost inevitable with current attitudes of all different sides.
All the way to Odessa !? Then my country is truly fukced :D Are people so pro-russian in those southern oblasts without many russians !?

[RandoBloom]

Give Nuclear weapons to Ukraine. That will sillence the big bully called Rusia

[Hweinlant]

Big turmoil in Crimea right now. Parliament stormed by armed ex-Berkut troops, building surrounded by thousends of Pro-Russian demonstrators. All comm systems (internet, phones) cutted off from Parliament building. Parliament voting for relationship with Ukraine.

Ukrainian army stepping in soon ?

[Sarmatian]

All the way to Odessa !? Then my country is truly fukced :D Are people so pro-russian in those southern oblasts without many russians !?

From my understanding Odessa is rather neutral and have a bit of both pro-Russian and anti-Russian elements. Ukrainian nazis have to really screw up for Odessa to secede but however slim is the chance of it happening it's still present.

[Sarmatian]

Big turmoil in Crimea right now. Parliament stormed by armed ex-Berkut troops, building surrounded by thousends of Pro-Russian demonstrators. All comm systems (internet, phones) cutted off from Parliament building. Parliament voting for relationship with Ukraine.

Ukrainian army stepping in soon ?

Army will stay away from internal affairs for as long as possible.

[Arianiti]

Russia will not attack. Ukraine is no Georgia. It's a country of 45 million people. There are millions of Ukrainians at Russia and quite obviously millions of Russians at Ukraine. Attack on Ukraine means automatic de-stabilization of Russia.

Ukraine is a unitary state composed of 24 oblasts (provinces), one autonomous republic (Crimea) and two cities with special status: Kiev, its capital and largest city and Sevastopol, which houses the Russian Black Sea Fleet under a leasing agreement. Ukraine is a republic under a semi-presidential system with separate legislative, executive, and judicial branches. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine continues to maintain the second-largest military in Europe, after that of Russia.

wiki wiki

[Pure ja]

the most cynical act of the winter was was IMO the bombing of Helsinki by Soviet Union. They didn't target any military targets but the city in general, killing civilians.
that was bad.
= disgusting

That was at least partly launched from occupied Estonia, in violation of the Bases Pact of 1939.

[Pure ja]

In 1944 they tried to firebomb Helsinki, did not work out like planned, so they destroyed Tallin instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Helsinki_in_World_War_II#The_great_raid s_of_February_1944

And Narva. And Tartu.

[Loki]

Putin orders surprise drills in two military districts

Russian President Vladimir Putin instructed the Defence Ministry to hold surprise military exercises to check combat readiness of armed forces in Western and Central Military Districts

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721038

Bullshit. Even America has denied that it's preparing for an invasion. Russia wouldn't want to do that anyway, but it would bolster its defences in Crimea, where Russia has a naval basis at Sevastopol.

[Loki]

Ukraine continues to maintain the second-largest military in Europe, after that of Russia.=


A bit pointless now that they have allowed an armed revolution to depose the democratically elected president.

[Pure ja]

yeah stalin is to blame for forcing russians to fight against their own genocide?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

If Stalin had't occupied the Baltic states, then Hitler would have had to attack St. Petersburg with the hook through Smolensk and Novgorod. The progress would have been much slower.

And if Hitler had attacked the Baltics, the progress would again have been much slower since balts and estonians remembered well the german time and Landeswehr and the machinations of Von der Goltz. And they also remembered the victories over the baltic german Landerswehr and Iron Division. But soviets managed to alienate locals in one year of occupation more than the germans in 700 years.

Also, St. Petersburg could have escaped the siege if it had surrendered. International law on war and occupation requires an occupying force to take care of the civilians. Sieging powers do not have such obligations. St. Petersburg could even have surrendered to Finland. So the civilian losses in St. Petersburg are entirely their own fault.

[RandoBloom]

A bit pointless now that they have allowed an armed revolution to depose the democratically elected president.

What about Morsi? Double standards much?

[Loki]

Also, St. Petersburg could have escaped the siege if it had surrendered. International law on war and occupation requires an occupying force to take care of the civilians. Sieging powers do not have such obligations. St. Petersburg could even have surrendered to Finland. So the civilian losses in St. Petersburg are entirely their own fault.

BULLSHIT, you don't know what you're talking about :picard1:

[Loki]

What about Morsi? Double standards much?

Everything. Morsi abused his powers by favoring Islamism, and cracking down on secularists.

[Acquisitor]

Also, St. Petersburg could have escaped the siege if it had surrendered. International law on war and occupation requires an occupying force to take care of the civilians. Sieging powers do not have such obligations. St. Petersburg could even have surrendered to Finland. So the civilian losses in St. Petersburg are entirely their own fault.

educate yourself about the occupied Kiev and what happened to its civilians who were "under protection of the international law". Do the same for Hitler's plans for Leningrad (Saint Petersburg).

Saint Petersburg is the only marvelous city in Russia, and it wouldn't be there today should it not had resisted back then.

Here is a picture of how lets say Peterhof looked after the liberation:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LATGBJ0HpDs/UcFTRZ32szI/AAAAAAAAG7s/wYtWufF-GpI/s640/blogger-image--1940649973.jpg


luckily they were able to restore it, but it wouldn't be possible for the entire city I'm afraid=

http://www.euratlas.com/Atlas/russia/peterhof_palace.jpg

[LightHouse89]

Good opportunity to check their readiness for others also. :rolleyes:

I hope they don't invade it will create more issues over there. The Russia and America should stand down and leave Ukraine be. They have enough issues as it is they don't need to be bombed back to the stone ages.

[LightHouse89]

Everything. Morsi abused his powers by favoring Islamism, and cracking down on secularists.

Morsi was a dick and American puppet. Almost every Arab 'moderate' is a dickhead puppet for Saudi Arabia and USA. My government should let the middle easterners decide what they want to do with themselves.

[Acquisitor]

I hope they don't invade it will create more issues over there. The Russia and America should stand down and leave Ukraine be. They have enough issues as it is they don't need to be bombed back to the stone ages.

if Ukraine is let "as it is", then it will create millions of asylum seekers most of whom will flee to the EU. No thanks.

[RandoBloom]

Everything. Morsi abused his powers by favoring Islamism, and cracking down on secularists.

Lets take that at face value. Yanukovich abused his power and favored Russia to Ukraine. So what is the difference?

[Loki]

Putin orders government to continue contacts with Ukraine (http://en.itar-tass.com/russias-foreign-policy)

Vladimir Putin also instructed explore the possibility of providing humanitarian aid to Crimea

http://videocdn.itar-tass.com/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20140228/948596.jpg

[Drawing-slim]

Ukraine gave up its nuclear bombs being guaranteed it's sovereignty as a nation. So if Russia invaded USA has to invade and bomb the shit out of Russia.

[Pure ja]

educate yourself about the occupied Kiev and what happened to its civilians who were "under protection of the international law". Do the same for Hitler's plans for Leningrad (Saint Petersburg).


Nazis killed about 20% of Kievans. That was still less than died in famine in St. Petersburg.
AND, my original notion still stands that St. Petersburg also had the option to surrender to Finland.

Alternatively, if Stalin hadn't attacked Finland, soviets could have kept open the logistics line to the north of lakes Ladoga and Onega and Petropavlovsk (correction: Petrozavodsk).
Or soviets could have evacuated St. Peterburgians.

Again, the loss of civilians in St. Petersburg during the siege was entirely the fault of soviets.

[Acquisitor]

Nazis killed about 20% of Kievans. That was still less than died in famine in St. Petersburg.
AND, my original notion still stands that St. Petersburg also had the option to surrender to Finland.

Alternatively, if Stalin hadn't attacked Finland, soviets could have kept open the logistics line to the north of lakes Ladoga and Onega and Petropavlovsk (correction: Petrozavodsk).
Or soviets could have evacuated St. Peterburgians.

Again, the loss of civilians in St. Petersburg during the siege was entirely the fault of soviets.

20% of Kievans : what about the law which obligates the occupier to care for the population ?

One can not know for sure how Hitler would had treated Leningrad, the place which spawned the bolshevik revolution.

I have recently read an interesting article about the famine in Leningrad during the seize, apparently it was fairly easy to provide the city with all it needed through water using ships, yet Stalin never did it.. the article was speculative of course.

[Pure ja]

20% of Kievans : what about the law which obligates the occupier to care for the population ?

One can not know for sure how Hitler would had treated Leningrad, the place which spawned the bolshevik revolution.

I have recently read an interesting article about the famine in Leningrad during the seize, apparently it was fairly easy to provide the city with all it needed through water using ships, yet Stalin never did it.. the article was speculative of course.

The losses were close to 100% for the remaining Kievan jews. For other ethnic groups, the losses were close to 15%.

By comparison, of the first soviet deportations from Estonia in JUNE 1941, about 90% perished. The average mortality DURING deportation transportation alone was about 33%!
So in that perspective, staying put would have given better odds under the nazi occupation.

[Acquisitor]

The losses were close to 100% for the remaining Kievan jews. For other ethnic groups, the losses were close to 15%.

By comparison, of the first soviet deportations from Estonia in JUNE 1941, about 90% perished. The average mortality DURING deportation transportation alone was about 33%!
So in that perspective, staying put would have given better odds under the nazi occupation.

still speculative but I get your point.

[Loki]

Nazis killed about 20% of Kievans. That was still less than died in famine in St. Petersburg.
AND, my original notion still stands that St. Petersburg also had the option to surrender to Finland.

Alternatively, if Stalin hadn't attacked Finland, soviets could have kept open the logistics line to the north of lakes Ladoga and Onega and Petropavlovsk (correction: Petrozavodsk).
Or soviets could have evacuated St. Peterburgians.

Again, the loss of civilians in St. Petersburg during the siege was entirely the fault of soviets.

You are even worse than Karl. Pathetic. I can see why Russians don't love Estonians.

[Loki]

By comparison, of the first soviet deportations from Estonia in JUNE 1941, about 90% perished.

Good. We would have had so many more Karls and Pure jas :picard1:

[Longbowman]

Russia, the America of Asia.

America would probably react the same way.

After a brief thaw in the mid-90s, it appears both sides have forgot the Cold War is over.

[LightHouse89]

Russia, the America of Asia.

America would probably react the same way.

After a brief thaw in the mid-90s, it appears both sides have forgot the Cold War is over.

Obama wants to bring it back but he is really a pussy at heart. He is more about giving rights to homosexuals and getting rid of the fences on our borders to allow anyone to come here. If anything he is the death of America so I am not surprised the world supports him and his satanic plan.

[Longbowman]

Obama wants to bring it back but he is really a pussy at heart. He is more about giving rights to homosexuals and getting rid of the fences on our borders to allow anyone to come here. If anything he is the death of America so I am not surprised the world supports him and his satanic plan.

Obama isn't the best president ever but he's above average, hampered by perhaps the worst congress ever, at least in living memory, and organisations like the tea party. Whether or not you like gays, most of that legislation is done at state level, and immigration has dropped under Obama although probably due to the recession rather than any of his policies. If you hate immigrants so much, deport Ted Cruz.

He certainly doesn't want the death of America and he hasn't got a satanic plan

Bear in mind I voted for Romney...

[Loki]

After a brief thaw in the mid-90s, it appears both sides have forgot the Cold War is over.

Actually, this is unfair. Russia initially wanted good relations with the West. But seeing how the West supported corrupt oligarchs and the destruction of Russian wealth, this was no longer an option.

[LightHouse89]

Obama isn't the best president ever but he's above average, hampered by perhaps the worst congress ever, at least in living memory, and organisations like the tea party. Whether or not you like gays, most of that legislation is done at state level, and immigration has dropped under Obama although probably due to the recession rather than any of his policies. If you hate immigrants so much, deport Ted Cruz.

He certainly doesn't want the death of America and he hasn't got a satanic plan

Bear in mind I voted for Romney...

I am aware its done at state level but the media is trying to influence it more. They are now going into conservative states trying to force gay marriage upon those places. If your not with them and do not agree with them your a no good racist bigot and they actually will say it in polite terms on national television. I wonder what is happening to my country with this and the big Afram agenda to take it over. Obama sucks and has done nothing useful, not to mention he isn't a real US citizen. I don't hate immigrants I just don't want it so that if you come here illegally you get free citizenship. I find it amazing when people who really need help in the world and are worse off than Mexicans cannot come here but a group of people who walk across the border can get asylum with no problems. That to me is wrong and Democrats support it.

I believe whole heartily e hates this country as he criticizes it along with his ugly wife. He involves himself with court cases that no president should be bothering with because it isn't their job. Everyone he elected to power is terrible, Eric Holder [crook], Hagel crook and criminal], Susan Rice etc.... all crooks and ignoramuses.

[Loki]

Bear in mind I voted for Romney...

Oh, you have dual citizenship? :D

[Longbowman]

Actually, this is unfair. Russia initially wanted good relations with the West. But seeing how the West supported corrupt oligarchs and the destruction of Russian wealth, this was no longer an option.

Eh. Russia is an imperial power that never had to give up [a lot of] it's empire because it was geographically congruent to it, and America the same, because of the nature of its empire. Russia had conflicts in places like Chechnya and hasn't had the realisation western European countries have had in relation to self-determination. It still sees itself - as does America, and China - as a country that deserves to exert power over others, or perhaps a country that needs to exert power over others. You see flashes of this in other countries but it rarely actually amounts to anything.

Also, I was mainly speaking domestically. Both countries have voter fraud - it's more widespread and ingrained in Russia, and America does try to legitimise it with poxy legislation - both countries are obsessed with regulating the lives of their citizens, both countries would prefer their citizens focused on some kind of nationalistic predetermined greater good, both countries' leaders simply bypass standing legislation when they want someone arrested or even disappeared (Guantanamo, journalists/oligarchs). Overall I'd prefer to live in the States but couldn't live in either.

They need to do as Europe does and incite loyalty by improving the lot of their citizens, instead of focussing on international grandstanding and penis-waving. Hate, and you will be hated. Distrust, and you will be distrusted. Scorn, and you will be scorned. Love, and you will be loved.

Russia and America are just as bad as each other when it comes to diplomacy, although there was a period in the early 90s when Russia was far better, true.

[Longbowman]

Oh, you have dual citizenship? :D

Yeah :)

My dad was born in NYC, emigrating here a few years before I was born, and he recently obtained British citizenship himself, but I've held both citizenships since birth. It's quite handy sometimes, although it won't be when I start paying taxes.

[Rambo07]

GO Russia GO!
Ukraine is fucking bankrupt, they think the EU/US is going to bail their ass out lol.
Putin is an extremely clever man, and as usual will handle this as a pro.

[Longbowman]

I am aware its done at state level but the media is trying to influence it more. They are now going into conservative states trying to force gay marriage upon those places. If your not with them and do not agree with them your a no good racist bigot and they actually will say it in polite terms on national television. I wonder what is happening to my country with this and the big Afram agenda to take it over. Obama sucks and has done nothing useful, not to mention he isn't a real US citizen. I don't hate immigrants I just don't want it so that if you come here illegally you get free citizenship. I find it amazing when people who really need help in the world and are worse off than Mexicans cannot come here but a group of people who walk across the border can get asylum with no problems. That to me is wrong and Democrats support it.

I believe whole heartily e hates this country as he criticizes it along with his ugly wife. He involves himself with court cases that no president should be bothering with because it isn't their job. Everyone he elected to power is terrible, Eric Holder [crook], Hagel crook and criminal], Susan Rice etc.... all crooks and ignoramuses.

America's largest media grouping is FOX and Murdoch's other stuff and if Obama controls that he's doing a terrible job. He doesn't criticize America, though you can criticize aspects of a country and still wish the best for it, and how ugly his wife is is of no consequence.

Ultimately, he's too inoffensive to truly be great. But he's not terrible. Unemployment is down, the deficit is down, popular support is up, the economy is up, etc.

[Acquisitor]

America's largest media grouping is FOX and Murdoch's other stuff and if Obama controls that he's doing a terrible job. He doesn't criticize America, though you can criticize aspects of a country and still wish the best for it, and how ugly his wife is is of no consequence.

Ultimately, he's too inoffensive to truly be great. But he's not terrible. Unemployment is down, the deficit is down, popular support is up, the economy is up, etc.

What has he done to improve unemployment and the economy ? The FED kept printing money, and still is. The debt has skyrocketed. What has Obama done to pull the country from the mess it has found itself in ? Did he even have a clear program like lets say Roosevelt did, to pull the country from the great depression ? Doubtful.

[Longbowman]

What has he done to improve unemployment and the economy ? The FED kept printing money, and still is. The debt has skyrocketed. What has Obama done to pull the country from the mess it has found itself in ? Did he even have a clear program like lets say Roosevelt did to pull the country from the great depression ? Doubtful.

Nope. Roosevelt was a better president. Obama isn't stellar, he's just OK. But it was Bush that screwed the US economy by turning what could have been a $5.6 trillion surplus over 11 years - enough to cover the entire national debt as of 2000 - into a colossal deficit of $11 trillion when he left office.

[Acquisitor]

Nope. Roosevelt was a better president. Obama isn't stellar, he's just OK. But it was Bush that screwed the US economy by turning what could have been a $5.6 trillion surplus over 11 years - enough to cover the entire national debt as of 2000 - into a colossal deficit of $11 trillion when he left office.

What I "really' don't understand about Obama and his reelection is lack of a clear program to clear up the economic mess. I mean in a serious situation the country needs a strong leader with a vision. But he hadn't done anything other than print money and yet he was reelected... Also, the foundation of the credit/housing bubble can be traced to way before Bush was elected and became president. Yes he increased the national debt, but the housing bubble is not really his fault, Greenspan is more responsible for it than Bush. He overlooked the nasdaq bubble, he kept the rates too low for way too long in the early 2000's to fight the recession.

[Longbowman]

What I "really' don't understand about Obama and his reelection is lack of a clear program to clear up the economic mess. I mean in a serious situation the country needs a strong leader with a vision. But he hadn't done anything other than print money and yet he was reelected... Also, the foundation of the credit/housing bubble can be traced to way before Bush was elected and became president. Yes he increased the national debt, but the housing bubble is not really his fault, Greenspan is more responsible for it than Bush. He overlooked the nasdaq bubble, he kept the rates too low for way too long in the early 2000's to fight the recession.

Didn't blame it all on Bush, just pointing out Bush was crap and Obama inherited a bad situation. He could have been more proactive but he could have been worse, too.

[Acquisitor]

Didn't blame it all on Bush, just pointing out Bush was crap and Obama inherited a bad situation. He could have been more proactive but he could have been worse, too.

ok he inherited a problem, but many years have passed ;)

ok I get your point..

[Loki]

Eh. Russia is an imperial power that never had to give up [a lot of] it's empire because it was geographically congruent to it, and America the same, because of the nature of its empire. Russia had conflicts in places like Chechnya and hasn't had the realisation western European countries have had in relation to self-determination. It still sees itself - as does America, and China - as a country that deserves to exert power over others, or perhaps a country that needs to exert power over others. You see flashes of this in other countries but it rarely actually amounts to anything.

Also, I was mainly speaking domestically. Both countries have voter fraud - it's more widespread and ingrained in Russia, and America does try to legitimise it with poxy legislation - both countries are obsessed with regulating the lives of their citizens, both countries would prefer their citizens focused on some kind of nationalistic predetermined greater good, both countries' leaders simply bypass standing legislation when they want someone arrested or even disappeared (Guantanamo, journalists/oligarchs). Overall I'd prefer to live in the States but couldn't live in either.

They need to do as Europe does and incite loyalty by improving the lot of their citizens, instead of focussing on international grandstanding and penis-waving. Hate, and you will be hated. Distrust, and you will be distrusted. Scorn, and you will be scorned. Love, and you will be loved.

Russia and America are just as bad as each other when it comes to diplomacy, although there was a period in the early 90s when Russia was far better, true.

You are wrong on all counts, it sounds like you have been fed with Economist propaganda.

Over 60% of Russians support Putin, the nearest rivals are the Communists. Do you want them to get into power?

[Longbowman]

You are wrong on all counts, it sounds like you have been fed with Economist propaganda.

Over 60% of Russians support Putin, the nearest rivals are the Communists. Do you want them to get into power?

Never read the Economist.

Well, those are official statistics, there have been street riots. One member here alleges his name appeared on a voting roll in a city many hundreds of miles away from his native Siberia as having voted for Putin. Regardless, the legitimacy of the president isn't even the main point - Bush Jr at one point had the highest approval rating of any US president, ever. and apart from Belarus (Russia's best friend) there isn't a clear-cut dictatorship in Europe, although there are some countries with a lot of corruption.

For example, take Yanukovych. He's hated by Ukrainians and Russians alike, yet Putin is thus far stubbornly insisting he's the legitimate president, sort of like America refusing to recognise China for 24 years. It's this kind of denialism and delusions of absolute grandeur and right of control that plague Russia (and America).

If we're going to believe the official Russian story without our pinch of salt, we might as well believe the official American and Ukrainian stories, and wonder why such fine, upstanding countries are squabbling.

It takes two to tango.

[Loki]

Never read the Economist.

Well, those are official statistics, there have been street riots. One member here alleges his name appeared on a voting roll in a city many hundreds of miles away from his native Siberia as having voted for Putin. Regardless, the legitimacy of the president isn't even the main point - Bush Jr at one point had the highest approval rating of any US president, ever. and apart from Belarus (Russia's best friend) there isn't a clear-cut dictatorship in Europe, although there are some countries with a lot of corruption.

For example, take Yanukovych. He's hated by Ukrainians and Russians alike, yet Putin is thus far stubbornly insisting he's the legitimate president, sort of like America refusing to recognise China for 24 years. It's this kind of denialism and delusions of absolute grandeur and right of control that plague Russia (and America).

If we're going to believe the official Russian story without our pinch of salt, we might as well believe the official American and Ukrainian stories, and wonder why such fine, upstanding countries are squabbling.

It takes two to tango.

You are like an official anti-Kremlin propagandist. Unbelievable.

[Loki]

For example, take Yanukovych. He's hated by Ukrainians and Russians alike, yet Putin is thus far stubbornly insisting he's the legitimate president, sort of like America refusing to recognise China for 24 years. It's this kind of denialism and delusions of absolute grandeur and right of control that plague Russia (and America).


He won the 2010 elections, democratically and monitored by the EU. He has strong support in Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine, which led him to win the elections.

[Virtuous]

I'm in crossroads on whether to also support the Russian front in spite of being against Western Liberalism. But I wouldn't be better than the Ukranians supporting the E.U. thinking they'll get independence. My ideals are for a United Europe based on the strong Identity and the Tradition of Regions (NewRight philosophy and Third Positionism) that goes beyond American Financial Globalism and any sort of Nationalistic Imperialism within Europe (including Russia), that is what is cancelling out my previously conceived thoughts on taking sides.

[Äijä]

I'm in crossroads on whether to also support the Russian front in spite of being against Western Liberalism. But I wouldn't be better than the Ukranians supporting the E.U. thinking they'll get independence. My ideals are for a United Europe based on the strong Identity and the Tradition of Regions (NewRight philosophy and Third Positionism) that goes beyond American Financial Globalism and any sort of Nationalistic Imperialism within Europe (including Russia), that is what is cancelling out my previously conceived thoughts on taking sides.

Russian imperialism is the reason they have difficulty finding real partners in Europe.
If they would make themselves an attractive partner and supporter of its neighbours independence many would gravitate towards Russia voluntarily.
But Russia is in the mental gulag for not wanting to separate from that legacy and recognizing the wrongs done.
Many Russian seem to like being hated and want Russia to be the bully with low self-esteem, they will loose a new cold war and end up eaten by all around them.

[Acquisitor]

He won the 2010 elections, democratically and monitored by the EU. He has strong support in Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine, which led him to win the elections.

He won the elections but he managed to lead his country to a bankruptcy. A CEO who is elected to lead the company will also get fired if he miserably fails in his mission. Here however you cant just fire him, you need a revolution, and that's what we have seen.

[Pure ja]

You are even worse than Karl. Pathetic. I can see why Russians don't love Estonians.

What? Surrendering to Finland is the worst option for you?
In that case I pity you.

[Pure ja]

Good. We would have had so many more Karls and Pure jas :picard1:

That first soviet deportation happened before nazis attacked USSR in 1941. And that first soviet deportation also included 10% of Estonian jews, so that first deportation got rid of 9% of Estonian jews even before nazis attacked USSR. Also the Estonian Jewish cultural autonomy had already been banned.

Another 65% of Estonian jews likely suffered the 33% of mortality en route. So, the soviets caused the death of about 30% of Estonian jews. Nazis only managed 25%.

I wonder how come some still blame Estonian Republic for nazism and fascism?

[Pure ja]

Actually, this is unfair. Russia initially wanted good relations with the West. But seeing how the West supported corrupt oligarchs and the destruction of Russian wealth, this was no longer an option.

How did the West support corrupt oligarchs?

[Pure ja]

You are wrong on all counts, it sounds like you have been fed with Economist propaganda.

Over 60% of Russians support Putin, the nearest rivals are the Communists. Do you want them to get into power?

And more than 95% of chechens support Putin after the double decimation by the Russian army.
Yeah, right.

[Äijä]

Russian TV claims Finns have trained the Ukrainians when the video is most likely from Estonian Home Guard youth camp.
Many Finnish retired officers do this as a hobby and solidarity to our brother nation.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288659626111.html?pos=ok-trm-uutu#comments-anchor

Edit. They dont say it is a Finn but you can hear it from the accent, the video is out of context and gives a false impression.

[Hweinlant]

Edit. They dont say it is a Finn but you can hear it from the accent, the video is out of context and gives a false impression.

I know who that is and yes he is Finnish. He is training Estonian National Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Defence_League) (Kaitseliit). Nothing to do with Ukes. It looks like Russian propaganda mill is in full force.

[Äijä]

I know who that is and yes he is Finnish. He is training Estonian National Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Defence_League) (Kaitseliit). Nothing to do with Ukes. It looks like Russian propaganda mill is in full force.

He should come in public, also those Estonians.

[Arianiti]

It looks like Russian propaganda mill is in full force.

Is their infamous KGB still operational?

[Hweinlant]

Is their infamous KGB still operational?

It's not just operational, it is running the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silovik

[Äijä]

Is their infamous KGB still operational?

It has a tradition of changing name and ideology but people running it remain the same.

[Loki]

And more than 95% of chechens support Putin after the double decimation by the Russian army.
Yeah, right.

Chechens make up only a small percentage of the Russian population, so it's irrelevant.

Anyway I'm going to change your thread title, Russia is not preparing for an invasion.

[Loki]

It has a tradition of changing name and ideology but people running it remain the same.

Why wouldn't it be? But old KGB leaders would have been replaced by younger FSB new leaders by now.

[Äijä]

Why wouldn't it be? But old KGB leaders would have been replaced by younger FSB new leaders by now.

It is the same since Ivan the Terrible.

[Äijä]

Chechens make up only a small percentage of the Russian population, so it's irrelevant.

Anyway I'm going to change your thread title, Russia is not preparing for an invasion.

Will it be a surprise invasion now as you say they are not prepared for invasion?

[Longbowman]

You are like an official anti-Kremlin propagandist. Unbelievable.

Hardly. Russia props up actual dictatorships (like Belarus) and sticks its fingers where they don't belong (Ukraine, the Baltics, Georgia) much like the US; you can rationalise it away as humanitarian and stabilising but then you must do the same for the US. They're rough parallels in most ways. Hell, Russia has assassinated dissidents abroad (such as Litvinenko) and haven't even bothered to deny it or accede to international investigations of Russian citizens. I'm afraid you're misguided on the issue. Perhaps you should visit and ask some Russians what they think?

Yanukovych won the election fair and square and then he was terrible. If the Germans had protested against and chucked out Hitler in the 30s we wouldn't oppose it. It is evident to everyone, including the Russophiles, that he was a crook who stole for personal benefit and sold his allegiance for financial incentives. We'd chuck out someone similar.

[Siberyak]

The current Ukrainian Government is too weak right now to stop a Russian military excursion into the Crimea. obviously

[Äijä]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac0szg9cFY8

[RussiaPrussia]

The current Ukrainian Government is too weak right now to stop a Russian military excursion into the Crimea. obviously

they are too weak allowing russian and minority languages again?

[Sarmatian]

Russian TV claims Finns have trained the Ukrainians when the video is most likely from Estonian Home Guard youth camp.
Many Finnish retired officers do this as a hobby and solidarity to our brother nation.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288659626111.html?pos=ok-trm-uutu#comments-anchor

Edit. They dont say it is a Finn but you can hear it from the accent, the video is out of context and gives a false impression.

I don't think it's really matters what is really on the video because not many people in Russia will be able to recognize uniforms and accents. Just some men in foreign uniforms talk some strange language. Could be anyone as long as they are not Nigerians or Japanese or something like that ;)

The important part is what they actually say in the news. The rest is just a moving picture for show.

[Drawing-slim]

Looks like Russia is up to no good.
Obama is in a bad situation here. Another Russian war ship just sailed into Havana Cuba and US is just not saying much at all. This is where McCain as president would come in handy.

[Sarmatian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac0szg9cFY8

The radio says all buses between Crimea and Krasnodar are cancelled due to blocked border. FUCK THIS SHIT!!! That's pretty much the only way out for refugees.

[Äijä]

Strange exercise, Russian Marines siege an Ukrainian border post.

[Longbowman]

Strange exercise, Russian Marines siege an Ukrainian border post.

http://news.yahoo.com/armed-standoff-pro-russian-region-raises-ukraine-tension-033318395.html

And airports, and sovereign airspace. Who could have guessed?

[Äijä]

http://news.yahoo.com/armed-standoff-pro-russian-region-raises-ukraine-tension-033318395.html

And airports, and sovereign airspace. Who could have guessed?

The Russophobe Finns and Balts.

[Äijä]

Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting

BBC

[Acquisitor]

Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting

BBC

cant find any confirmation of that, like anywhere, its likely a lie

[Äijä]

cant find any confirmation of that, like anywhere, its likely a lie

Then it is Finnish disinformation, are we not allowed? ;)

[Longbowman]

cant find any confirmation of that, like anywhere, its likely a lie

Ukko, can you provide a link?

[Acquisitor]

my head is being torn apart here by the russian half and the euro half :\

the russian half says "Crimea is ours let's take it now, this is a historical opportunity"

the euro half says "It was given to Ukraine, and Ukraine needs it more than Russia, taking it is a violation of international laws and it would be pathetic to take it when the country is in a serious crisis"

see how immigration has corrupted my head :\

[Äijä]

Video from surveillance camera on how Crimea parliament was captued yesterday.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQgWdoeZP8U

Ragtag militia throws some flash bangs, one could be russian based on his sports gear.

[Äijä]

Ukko, can you provide a link?

I am following a Finnish site.

http://blog.maanpuolustus.net/live-ukraina-2/

[Acquisitor]

Video from surveillance camera on how Crimea parliament was captued yesterday.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQgWdoeZP8U

Ragtag militia throws some flash bangs, one could be russian based on his sports gear.

according to the russian press its a video of Ukrainian army capturing something ;)

[Äijä]

my head is being torn apart here by the russian half and the euro half :\

the russian half says "Crimea is ours let's take it now, this is a historical opportunity"

the euro half says "It was given to Ukraine, and Ukraine needs it more than Russia, taking it is a violation of international laws and it would be pathetic to take it when the country is in a serious crisis"

see how immigration has corrupted my head :\

Few years in Siberia is the cure for that.

[Sarmatian]

http://news.yahoo.com/armed-standoff-pro-russian-region-raises-ukraine-tension-033318395.html

And airports, and sovereign airspace. Who could have guessed?

The armed men on the pictures around buildings have NATO uniform, nothing like Russian. The only Russian thing in them is AK.

[Acquisitor]

Few years in Siberia is the cure for that.

the question is "what would happen after a few years in Siberia ? would the euro half remove the russian half or would the russian half regrow and turn me into russiaprussia" ? difficult question ;)

[Äijä]

This link follows just if these sites go down, as it could be a sign of a full blown invasion.

http://maanpuolustus.net/pages/ukraina-sivustot/

[Äijä]

the question is "what would happen after a few years in Siberia ? would the euro half remove the russian half or would the russian half regrow and turn me into russiaprussia" ? difficult question ;)

Well is is easy to go back to the familiar.

[Acquisitor]

Well is is easy to go back to the familiar.

you az a Finn hef no right to abaut zis

;)

wi kikked ur ass mani times so stfu!

[Longbowman]

you az a Finn hef no right to abaut zis

;)

wi kikked ur ass mani times so stfu!

'We,' Russia?

Winter war?

[Äijä]

The armed men on the pictures around buildings have NATO uniform, nothing like Russian. The only Russian thing in them is AK.

Does not make them NATO troops, Alpha and other units come like that.

[Pure ja]

Why wouldn't it be? But old KGB leaders would have been replaced by younger FSB new leaders by now.

There is a personal, operational and legal continuity within that power vertical.

[Pure ja]

I know who that is and yes he is Finnish. He is training Estonian National Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Defence_League) (Kaitseliit). Nothing to do with Ukes. It looks like Russian propaganda mill is in full force.

One should remember that russians and ukrainians with Estonian citizenship are also conscripted to the Estonian army. Although I haven't heard that non-estonians take actively part in Kaitseliit activities. I would rather assume that those who do already have a decent level of estonian language profieciency. However, some specific military terminology might not yet exist in estonian language, so it would be natural to jump from finnish straight to russian language - that makes even more sense since older estonian men were conscripted to the soviet army and are familiar with the russian terminology.

[Pure ja]

Chechens make up only a small percentage of the Russian population, so it's irrelevant.


It is very relevant, because it shows that elections in RF are rigged.
Those familiar with what goes on in Russia should know the stories of organized airplanes flying electorate to the next time zone to vote again and again and again. While those specific violations are anecdotal :D, there are plenty of other examples which are saddening. Also the set of candidates is predetermined by Kremlin.

EDIT. One should also not forget the Helskinki syndrome (yes, I know, it is actually the Stockholm syndrome).

[Pure ja]

The radio says all buses between Crimea and Krasnodar are cancelled due to blocked border. FUCK THIS SHIT!!! That's pretty much the only way out for refugees.

The reason seems obvious - locals need those buses to transport their paramilitary.
Fuck refugees.

[RussiaPrussia]

my head is being torn apart here by the russian half and the euro half :\

the russian half says "Crimea is ours let's take it now, this is a historical opportunity"

the euro half says "It was given to Ukraine, and Ukraine needs it more than Russia, taking it is a violation of international laws and it would be pathetic to take it when the country is in a serious crisis"

see how immigration has corrupted my head :\

its illegitimate given to ukraine by soviet leader chrustschow who was ukraine himself and came intro power thanks to ukrainian ssr lobby

[Äijä]

When you log in and find over ten thumbs down you know RussiaPrussia is lurking about.

[Pure ja]

Few years in Siberia is the cure for that.

25+5

[Äijä]

its illegitimate given to ukraine by soviet leader chrustschow who was ukraine himself and came intro power thanks to ukrainian ssr lobby

Karelia was invaded illegally by some Caucasian mountain bandit, he came to power as many Russians where scared of him.

[RussiaPrussia]

When you log in and find over ten thumbs down you know RussiaPrussia is lurking about.

youre a warmonger who likes to see east slavs killing themselves while you sit in your home laughing. I have total disrespect for you

[Äijä]

youre a warmonger who likes to see east slavs killing themselves while you sit in your home laughing. I have total disrespect for you

You are a gay German masturbating to Stalin, can it get any more weird.

[Acquisitor]

When you log in and find over ten thumbs down you know RussiaPrussia is lurking about.

I have disabled receiving notifications when I get a thumbs up or down, try it :)

[RussiaPrussia]

Karelia was invaded illegally by some Caucasian mountain bandit, he came to power as many Russians where scared of him.

karelia was invaded long time ago, when kiev rus was founded. Russians mixed with karelians and finns themselves through out history

http://faculty.unlv.edu/pwerth/Kievan-Rus%27-11thcent.jpg

you compare something that happened 1000 years ago to 50 years

[Äijä]

When you log in and find over ten thumbs down you know RussiaPrussia is lurking about.

Lol, I knew for this post I would get thumbs up. :cool:

[Äijä]

karelia was invaded long time ago, when kiev rus was founded. Russians mixed with karelians and finns themselves through out history

http://faculty.unlv.edu/pwerth/Kievan-Rus%27-11thcent.jpg

you compare something that happened 1000 years ago to 50 years

I can compare even further, there where no Slavs around at all, you argument is a joke.

[RussiaPrussia]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Principalities_of_Kievan_Rus%27_(1054-1132).jpg
http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kievan-rus-1015-1113-en-e1270112214892.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Principalities_of_Kievan_Rus%27_(1054-1132)_ru.svg

more maps

[Pure ja]

youre a warmonger who likes to see east slavs killing themselves while you sit in your home laughing. I have total disrespect for you

He is a real finn. Who are you?

[RussiaPrussia]

http://periklisdeligiannis.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/rus-1237.gif

finnic map

[RussiaPrussia]

He is a real finn. Who are you?

russian and eastern european human rights advocate

[Argang]

Karelia was invaded illegally by some Caucasian mountain bandit, he came to power as many Russians where scared of him.

If there was a stronk Caucasus man calling the shots, the rebel scum would not have driven out the golden boy of Donetsk in the first place.:laugh:

RussiaPrussia, do you like Ramzan Kadyrov? Is he a deserving successor for Putin?

[Äijä]

Nice maps, Karelians had the right to come to the Tavastians side as Novgorod was overrun by the Mongol Muscovites that dont respect property or the law.

[Pure ja]

karelia was invaded long time ago, when kiev rus was founded. Russians mixed with karelians and finns themselves through out history

you compare something that happened 1000 years ago to 50 years

That map is utterly wrong.
You can't count the clients of your transport services as your slaves.

Estonian foreign trade turned decisively to the west at about 1000 AD, likely because Novgorod started to take more toll for Volga trade and started to rename the toll as a tax and those toll-payers as part of the Novorodian tax base. Estonians quit Volga trade and introduced their own tolls, soon after Novgorodians carried out raids to Ugandi - they got booty, but no permanent Novgorodian residency has been found. If Ugandi and Virumaa were part of the Novgorodian sphere, its foreign trade would have been decisively eastern, but it wasn't - it was decisively western. So there - don't try to depict your service clients as your slaves.

[Äijä]

russian and eastern european human rights advocate

:D

[RussiaPrussia]

Nice maps, Karelians had the right to come to the Tavastians side as Novgorod was overrun by the Mongol Muscovites that dont respect property or the law.

the only Mongolian here is you,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpg

rofl finns calling us mongolians

[Borna]

Which country from Baltic is most anti-Russian by your oppinion.
I have been few times to Latvia but never talked to people about it.

[Pure ja]

the only Mongolian here is you,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpg

rofl finns calling us mongolians

Nope.
We are pre-mongolian. We are the ancients here.

[Äijä]

the only Mongolian here is you,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpg

rofl finns calling us mongolians

Do you dispute Marx and Engels?


Oriental despotism is a despotic form of government that runs counter to the western tradition in some way or other. Historically, the term's meaning has varied and today it is hardly ever used at all, largely because of all the issues surrounding the concept of orientalism.
Bodin did include 'Muscovy' in Europe, but isolated it as the single example of a 'despotic monarchy' in the continent, at variance with the whole constitutional pattern of the rest of Europe, which otherwise contrasted with that of Asia and Africa: 'Even in Europe the Princes of Tartary and Muscovy rule over subjects called kholopi, that is to say, slaves'.[1] These debates were not without repercussions within Russia itself. In 1767, Catherine II officially declared in her famous Nakaz: 'Russia is a European power'. Thereafter, few serious thinkers questioned the claim. Marx and Engels, however, both deeply scarred by Tsarist counterrevolutionary intervention in 1848, repeatedly and anachronistically referred to Tsarism as an 'Asiatic despotism' and amalgamated India with Russia in a common obloquy. The general tone of Marx's opinions on Russian history and society, in particular, often lacks balance or control.[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_despotism

Russia is not Novgorod, even if it sometimes so much wants to be, like founding St.Petersburg, to hide the Muscovite heritage.

[Äijä]

Which country from Baltic is most anti-Russian by your oppinion.
I have been few times to Latvia but never talked to people about it.

Estonia most likely.

[glass]

Which country from Baltic is most anti-Russian by your oppinion.
I have been few times to Latvia but never talked to people about it.
people - Estonia
government - Lithuania

[Borna]

Problem is that you Russians didn't do much to distance yourself from communism. Although i personally think that by becoming communist you are immediately stripped of having nation, it looks to me that most Balts actually still see Russia trough communism, and that is where their hate come from. Similar thing is here in Croatia.

[Äijä]

Problem is that you Russians didn't do much to distance yourself from communism. Although i personally think that by becoming communist you are immediately stripped of having nation, it looks to me that most Balts actually still see Russia trough communism, and that is where their hate come from. Similar thing is here in Croatia.

Most anti-commies where killed or fled to Europe and USA, also in Finland or found themselves in Asia.
Russians are family oriented so sentencing the grandparents for war crimes or making them learn about those crimes in school, like germany has done, was just not an option.
Just twist the facts and dont talk about some subjects is the Russian way, if someone confronts you just call them fascists.

[Borna]

Russia should persecute commies mainly because themselves. I mean they lost 50 millions of their fellow Russians. Kinda dumb to protect people who killed their own people.

[Äijä]

Russia should persecute commies mainly because themselves. I mean they lost 50 millions of their fellow Russians. Kinda dumb to protect people who killed their own people.

Well it was those that lived that did the killing.

[Pure ja]

Estonia most likely.

There are different shades of attitudes.
Estonia and Lithuania may be more vocal than Latvia.

All three make somewhat different compromises, partly also because RF deliberately varies her attitude towards the three states over time.

Estonia sometimes employs impenetrable wall of logic. ;)