China paper slams West's 'Cold War mentality' over Ukraine

[Loki]

China paper slams West's 'Cold War mentality' over Ukraine (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/uk-ukraine-crisis-china-idUKBREA1Q06C20140227)

(Reuters) - China's top newspaper criticised the West on Thursday for remaining locked in a "Cold War mentality" against Russia in the contest for influence over Ukraine, calling for the shackles of such outmoded thinking to be cast off to deal with the crisis.

The commentary published in the People's Daily, the flagship newspaper of the ruling Communist Party, was the strongest reaction yet in Beijing to the rift between the West and Russia that has been growing since the ouster of Moscow's ally Viktor Yanukovich as president following weeks of protests.

"The theories related to politics, economics and security during the Cold War period are still influencing many people on their concept of the world, and some Western people are still imbued with resentment towards Russia," the paper said.

It called on Western countries to "abandon their outdated thinking" and expand cooperation.

"Ridding the shackles of the Cold War mentality will reduce unnecessary confrontation, thereby allowing for a smoother transition in international relations."

The commentary was published under the pen name "Zhong Sheng", meaning "Voice of China", which is often used to give the paper's view on foreign policy issues.

China and Russia have close ties and see eye-to-eye on many international diplomatic issues, such as the crisis in Syria.

China has so far shown little public interest in participating in any financial aid for Ukraine, or getting involved diplomatically, in line with the low key approach it takes to many international crises.

China's foreign ministry has said it will not interfere in what it considers an internal affair and that it respects the Ukrainian people's decisions, adding that it would like to continue to develop "friendly cooperation" with the country.

East-West tensions over Ukraine have risen further since Russian President Vladimir Putin put 150,000 combat troops on high alert for war games near Ukraine, Moscow's boldest gesture since the ouster of Yanukovich.

The United States warned Russia on Wednesday it would be a "grave mistake" to intervene militarily in Ukraine and said it was considering $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees and additional funding to help Kiev.

Yanukovich visited China in December in the hope of winning much-needed financial aid, but China did not say it would provide any loans. Yanukovich said deals signed with China may bring Ukraine about $8 billion in investment.

State news agency Xinhua said in December that Western powers should stop meddling in Ukraine's affairs and manipulating the "opinions of the people" about a trade pact with the European Union, just days after Yanukovich's visit to China.

[Sarmatian]

Reading this I can't help it but thinking China would actually make a good negotiator in all this chaos. Give them a right to bitchslap any irrational radical and they will sort the shit out very fast.

[RussiaPrussia]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?116843-Can-China-amp-Russia-Bankrupt-the-US

[glass]

I think China is interesting in tensions between Russia and West, it pushes Russia into chinese hands and weakens potential West-Russia union.
It is obvious pussified Europe is better partner for Russia (less demanding at least) than growing China

[Sarmatian]

I think China is interesting in tensions between Russia and West, it pushes Russia into chinese hands and weakens potential West-Russia union.
It is obvious pussified Europe is better partner for Russia (less demanding at least) than growing China

China's appetite for energy is growing exponentially every year. Very soon they will hit the top and experience extreme shortages of it. One of the ways out of it is Russian oil/gas supplies.

Another thing is Asians are naturally smooth politicians, they prefer to avoid aggressive stances and escalating tensions as much as possible. The aggressive rhetoric, so typical for US, is something I can hardly imagine in case of Chinese.

[Kiyant]

China's appetite for energy is growing exponentially every year. Very soon they will hit the top and experience extreme shortages of it. One of the ways out of it is Russian oil/gas supplies.

Another thing is Asians are naturally smooth politicians, they prefer to avoid aggressive stances and escalating tensions as much as possible. The aggressive rhetoric, so typical for US, is something I can hardly imagine in case of Chinese.

Chinese are friendly to you aslong as you can give them something if you cant they will stab you in your back

[Longbowman]

'One party state orders state controlled media to push Party agenda.'

[RussiaPrussia]

I think China is interesting in tensions between Russia and West, it pushes Russia into chinese hands and weakens potential West-Russia union.
It is obvious pussified Europe is better partner for Russia (less demanding at least) than growing China

china is a better partner, so more they grow and get fatter so less Americans will bitch about Russia. Also do Asian countries not care about democrazy etc, neither china, korea or japan care about democracy in russia or any internal situation.

[RussiaPrussia]

'One party state orders state controlled media to push Party agenda.'

bbc cough cough

[Longbowman]

bbc cough cough

Not state-controlled. State funded but independent. The British government doesn't have an official mouthpiece in that regard.

However you guys keep doing this: just because the West does bad things, doesn't make it OK for the East to do bad things, and vice versa. So even if the UK controlled all papers and channels, which it doesn't, it would still be bad that China does, too.

[RussiaPrussia]

Not state-controlled. State funded but independent. The British government doesn't have an official mouthpiece in that regard.

However you guys keep doing this: just because the West does bad things, doesn't make it OK for the East to do bad things, and vice versa. So even if the UK controlled all papers and channels, which it doesn't, it would still be bad that China does, too.

of course it is controlled by politics, if you receive money from someone you have to follow his agenda otherwise british politicians would gladly cut their budget and privatize them. In Germany state media has even former politicians running them in their leader board

[Sarmatian]

Chinese are friendly to you aslong as you can give them something if you cant they will stab you in your back

Knowing that all it takes is to keep smiling, never turn your back onto them and you'll be fine ;)

[Longbowman]

of course it is controlled by politics, if you receive money from someone you have to follow his agenda otherwise british politicians would gladly cut their budget and privatize them. In Germany state media has even former politicians running them in their leader board

Dude, I've interned in these firms, and the current head of the BBC is the brother of a teacher of mine. They're independent and often criticise the government. Savvy?

Here in the West we appreciate the need to fund organisations that need to be independent, like pro-bono law groups and human rights committees.

I think you just want to believe we're more corrupt than we are or than you are.

[glass]

China's appetite for energy is growing exponentially every year. Very soon they will hit the top and experience extreme shortages of it. One of the ways out of it is Russian oil/gas supplies.

Another thing is Asians are naturally smooth politicians, they prefer to avoid aggressive stances and escalating tensions as much as possible. The aggressive rhetoric, so typical for US, is something I can hardly imagine in case of Chinese.
US is just bully, China is polite bully. Both very demanding and lack will to find any compromise. The only reason Russia still do not have pipe to China is China's desire set price on level 'chinese people can afford'. They do not want to try to afford market price obviously:rolleyes:

[Longbowman]

US is just bully, China is polite bully. Both very demanding and lack will to find any compromise. The only reason Russia still do not have pipe to China is China's desire set price on level 'chinese people can afford'. They do not want to try to afford market price obviously:rolleyes:

They're all entitled bullies. The US, Russia, and as you say the more subtle China.

[Loki]

They're all entitled bullies. The US, Russia, and as you say the more subtle China.

Russia has been very diplomatic. But the US has pursued a Cold War agenda by encircling Russia with NATO states. Ukraine should come as no surprise. Filthy Americans. I hope they go down soon.

[Longbowman]

Russia has been very diplomatic. But the US has pursued a Cold War agenda by encircling Russia with NATO states. Ukraine should come as no surprise. Filthy Americans. I hope they go down soon.

If people want to buddy up to the US, they can. Freedom of association, right? If Russia were all that great a neighbour perhaps more states would be like Belarus and buddy up to Russia instead. Is the EU following a Cold War agenda by treading in Russia's sphere of influence? Because it is cold war thinking to suggest that certain independent countries belong to Russia, in a cultural or geopolitical sense, simply because they're close to Russia, or use to belong to Russia. Russia's diplomacy has been much in the bent of America's diplomacy, supporting dictatorships when it suits them (Belarus) and intervening when it doesn't (Georgia). It's 2014. Enough with spheres of influence.

If Russia and America and China sank into the sea, things might be better in the rest of the world. But I hope they just become freer. Hate, and you will be hated.

[glass]

china is a better partner, so more they grow and get fatter so less Americans will bitch about Russia. Also do Asian countries not care about democrazy etc, neither china, korea or japan care about democracy in russia or any internal situation.
Russia is inferior partner in chinese eye as well as in american ones.
So chinese might not care about democracy and such, but they would demand same obedience


Knowing that all it takes is to keep smiling, never turn your back onto them and you'll be fine
smiling before killing is mostly japanese feature


They're all entitled bullies. The US, Russia, and as you say the more subtle China.
Contemporary Russia does not bully innocent countries

[Loki]

Dude, I've interned in these firms, and the current head of the BBC is the brother of a teacher of mine. They're independent and often criticise the government. Savvy?


Their indoctrination is subtle, but easy to see for those of us who are more intelligent. For example, they would quote American politicians and agree with them, and when Russia says something it's all in "comment" ...

Also their coverage on Syria is absolutely one-sided and appalling. Likewise Ukraine. Don't tell me they're not a propaganda tool.

[Longbowman]

Their indoctrination is subtle, but easy to see for those of us who are more intelligent. For example, they would quote American politicians and agree with them, and when Russia says something it's all in "comment" ...

Also their coverage on Syria is absolutely one-sided and appalling. Likewise Ukraine. Don't tell me they're not a propaganda tool.

I watched the BBC report on Ukraine for quite a while yesterday. First they interviewed some protesters who were like 'yay, down with Russia' and then they went to Crimea and interviewed people who thought the opposite. It was pretty balanced. They don't try to draw conclusions. I think you're being unfair.

As for Syria, I think they're pretty clear that terrorists are bad and Assad is bad and people are suffering. The Government obviously voted against intervention. I don't think we even have a dog in that fight.

Could I ask your more intelligent opinion: do you see anything wrong with any aspect of the Russian government?

[RussiaPrussia]

Russia is inferior partner in chinese eye as well as in american ones.
So chinese might not care about democracy and such, but they would demand same obedience


no they dont think that way, russia was one of the colonial powers in china. They view south east asians as inferior but not russians

[Longbowman]

no they dont think that way, russia was one of the colonial powers in china. They view south east asians as inferior but not russians

Did you know there's a small (~15,000) minority of ethnic Russians that is a scheduled minority in China?

[Sarmatian]

I watched the BBC report on Ukraine for quite a while yesterday. First they interviewed some protesters who were like 'yay, down with Russia' and then they went to Crimea and interviewed people who thought the opposite. It was pretty balanced. They don't try to draw conclusions. I think you're being unfair.

I don't think you're really that naive. Who cares about what people say on the streets when there are power positions for grab? Why don't BBC go and tell about those who took offices in Kiev now? Who they are, where they came from, what they want? That is the real question that may have grave consequences not only for Ukrainians but for entire Europe if left unaddressed.

[Longbowman]

I don't think you're really that naive. Who cares about what people say on the streets when there are power positions for grab? Why don't BBC go and tell about those who took offices in Kiev now? Who they are, where they came from, what they want? That is the real question that may have grave consequences not only for Ukrainians but for entire Europe if left unaddressed.

Of course they covered that, good sides and bad.

[glass]

no they dont think that way, russia was one of the colonial powers in china. They view south east asians as inferior but not russians
past is a past. China has 10 times bigger population, 4 times bigger economy, in 20 years or so they would be able to copy / produce modern military equipment. So Russia would have none to offer, except resources. You might be do not know, but chinese hate russians more than any other white people, because their affairs with russians have much bigger history. Btw the more successfuly country, the bigger ego inhabitans of this country have.

[Longbowman]

Btw the more successfuly country, the bigger ego inhabitans of this country have.

Very, very true.

[RussiaPrussia]

Did you know there's a small (~15,000) minority of ethnic Russians that is a scheduled minority in China?

Russians are a recognized minority in china since 1990


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUrLAFXAB3k

[RussiaPrussia]

past is a past. China has 10 times bigger population, 4 times bigger economy, in 20 years or so they would be able to copy / produce modern military equipment. So Russia would have none to offer, except resources. You might be do not know, but chinese hate russians more than any other white people, because their affairs with russians have much bigger history. Btw the more successfuly country, the bigger ego inhabitans of this country have.

Chinese suffered most under british rule and humiliation when they openly forced china to allow their drugs to be sold, did russians did something like that? Or did russia raped and murder their people in ww2 like japan? And you can see tjose people chinese hate the most.
China has 10 times more people so what? But instability to control them thats why there are so many chinas like taiwan, macau, hongkong, singapure all countries having a chinese majority but do not want to belong to china. Malaysia has 20% chinese yet you dont sea china treating them. You dont get if china gets so big one day, resources is all what russia will need to make money which will available russia a high living standard. Chinese are already able to copy and produce modern military equipment yet people abroad still prefer russian weapons.

[Longbowman]

Chinese suffered most under british rule and humiliation when they openly forced china to allow their drugs to be sold, did russians did something like that? Or did russia raped and murder their people in ww2 like japan? And you can see these people they hate the most not russians.

China has 10 times more people so what? But instability to control them thats why there are so many chinas like taiwan, macau, hongkong, singapure all countries having a chinese majority but do not want to belong to china. Malaysia has 20% chinese yet you dont sea china treating them. You dont get if china gets so big one day, resources is all what russia will need to make money which will available russia a high living standard. Chinese are already able to copy and produce modern military equipment yet people abroad still prefer russian weapons.

America is by far the largest international arms exporter.

Yeah, the Chinese hate the Japanese more than anyone, no question.

[glass]

America is by far the largest international arms exporter.

not really http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

Chinese suffered most under british rule and humiliation when they openly forced china to allow their drugs to be sold, did russians did something like that?
Amur river used to be chinese northern border, now we have on former 'chinese' territory russian oblast and Mongolia. You may be do not know, but Mongolia is a russian creation. Chinese attacked USSR a few times in 1970s as well. I do not trust them. They are threat.
Russia should have pipe to eastern clients but not directly to China, rather to seaport on Pacific ocean, from where resources can go to any asian country not just to China.

[Longbowman]

not really http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

Amur river used to be chinese northern border, now we have on former 'chinese' territory russian oblast and Mongolia. You may be do not know, but Mongolia is a russian creation. Chinese attacked USSR a few times in 1970s as well. I do not trust them. They are threat.
Russia should have pipe to eastern clients but not directly to China, rather to seaport on Pacific ocean, from where resources can go to any asian country not just to China.

Dude, yes really. From your own link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_exporters

[RussiaPrussia]

not really http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

Amur river used to be chinese northern border, now we have on former 'chinese' territory russian oblast and Mongolia. You may be do not know, but Mongolia is a russian creation. Chinese attacked USSR a few times in 1970s as well. I do not trust them. They are threat.
Russia should have pipe to eastern clients but not directly to China, rather to seaport on Pacific ocean, from where resources can go to any asian country not just to China.

this is what the russian government is already doing with gas

[RussiaPrussia]

Dude, yes really. From your own link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_exporters

so what they are biggest economy much bigger than russia and have more people than us yet russian weapons are still asked worldwide and preferred because they are cheaper, better quality for the price and russia is willing to sell them to anyone.

[Longbowman]

so what they are biggest economy much bigger than russia and have more people than us yet russian weapons are still asked worldwide and preferred because they are cheaper, better quality for the price and russia is willing to sell them to anyone.

It's good that you admit this last part.

[RussiaPrussia]

It's good that you admit this last part.

even if america would sell their hightech weapons they would so expensive no one would want them

look at their abrams, the last time they sold this tank was a donation to iraq.

[ALL]

Russia has been very diplomatic. But the US has pursued a Cold War agenda by encircling Russia with NATO states. Ukraine should come as no surprise. Filthy Americans. I hope they go down soon.

Most Slavs I know want a good living standarid free of corruption, not leeches who do nothing but create trouble.

IMO China can have him.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Leech_in_the_point.jpg

[glass]

Dude, yes really. From your own link:

by far means be a lot right? THere were years when Russia was ahead US,
US export is just slightly bigger

[Longbowman]

by far means be a lot right? THere were years when Russia was ahead US,
US export is just slightly bigger

8-9% isn't slightly.

The past doesn't matter, we're talking about the present.

The West in general can add Germany, France and the UK's tallies to the total.

[Pure ja]

Russia has been very diplomatic. But the US has pursued a Cold War agenda by encircling Russia with NATO states. Ukraine should come as no surprise. Filthy Americans. I hope they go down soon.

Hopefully all three will go down.
Free Californian Republic, Idel Ural and Tibet!

[Pure ja]

Contemporary Russia does not bully innocent countries

Ah! But the deciding factor is who decides what is "innocent" to "whom"!
And what is a "country".

Obviously Kremlin does not tolerate others telling them how things are.

[Pure ja]

Btw the more successfuly country, the bigger ego inhabitans of this country have.

Small is beautiful.

[Loki]

Hopefully all three will go down.
Free Californian Republic, Idel Ural and Tibet!

Not Russia, Russia is a force of good in the world. And a strong China is important in East Asia.

[BeerBaron]

Not surprisong china is playing good guy against the west, they take every chance they can get to do so while their ships try to ram US ships.

Its easy to see why the west has cold war mentality half of the ukraine suppprts russia and its got huge natural resources and pipe lines to western europe. Thats the same reason russia doesng want to lose it.

[Äijä]

even if america would sell their hightech weapons they would so expensive no one would want them

look at their abrams, the last time they sold this tank was a donation to iraq.

We like our American weapons, they seem intent to sell anything we ask.

[Pure ja]

Not Russia, Russia is a force of good in the world. And a strong China is important in East Asia.

And you continue to insist that you are not trolling.
Pathetic.

[Loki]

And you continue to insist that you are not trolling.
Pathetic.

I am not trolling. I genuinely believe that. You, on the other hand, behave like a Nazi and are consumed with Russia hatred. It's good that there are so many ethnic Russians in Estonia. I hope they procreate more and breed you out of existence.

[Pure ja]

I am not trolling. I genuinely believe that. You, on the other hand, behave like a Nazi and are consumed with Russia hatred. It's good that there are so many ethnic Russians in Estonia. I hope they procreate more and breed you out of existence.

I rest my case. :D

[Loki]

I rest my case. :D

You are even worse than Karl. I have no hope for Estonians anymore.

EDIT: Talvi is cool. She has a Turkish boyfriend.

[Longbowman]

I am not trolling. I genuinely believe that. You, on the other hand, behave like a Nazi and are consumed with Russia hatred. It's good that there are so many ethnic Russians in Estonia. I hope they procreate more and breed you out of existence.

Why do you like Russia so much? Is there anything about Russia you don't like?

[Loki]

Why do you like Russia so much? Is there anything about Russia you don't like?

A better question: why do you hate Russia so much?

I can't think of anything I don't like about Russia, to be honest.

[Loki]

I will email Hors to see if he will come back. He was our coolest Russian member. He knew how to put Estonians in their place.

[Windischer]

:jump0000:

[Longbowman]

A better question: why do you hate Russia so much?

I can't think of anything I don't like about Russia, to be honest.

I don't hate Russia. I don't hate America. I think they both need an attitude check. You (and RP, another person who doesn't actually live in or come from Russia, or even speak Russian) but not glasses, are very defensive about Russia, seeing shadows in the dark. I would prefer Russia not have as much power as it does, same with the US and China. Competition is good, monopolies are bad.

I think the fact you can't think of a single bad thing is perhaps indicative of an infatuation rather than an in-depth positive appraisal of the situation. There are always bad things about countries and organisations. You read like one of those ultra-Yanks, just about a different country.

[Pure ja]

You are even worse than Karl. I have no hope for Estonians anymore.


But you can find solace from the fact that Putin is better than Hitler, although the Russian authorities think otherwise.

[haidian]

Russia as such a proud and glorious country now is being bullied by the west to such an extreme..I hope Russians can restore their previous glory and firmly stand up to the west. Western media is very biased.you have to take them with a lot of salt.

[zhaoyun]

Well, what's surprising about this. China and Russia are effective allies. They often back each other in political issues. I'd only be surprised if the Chinese state media issued an opinion encouraging the Western stance on the Ukraine.

[Sarmatian]

You are even worse than Karl. I have no hope for Estonians anymore.

EDIT: Talvi is cool. She has a Turkish boyfriend.

It's interesting that Finns, who suffered from Russians a few times and far more than Estonians, who kept fighting until the success, who have far more reasons to dislike Russia, maintain rational attitude, give Russia credit when it's due and, as shocking as it may sounds for some, are ready to cooperate with Russia if it happens to have a reasonable offer.

But Estonians (at least here) seems to be nothing but bitches who can't stop crying about how bad Russia is.

[Äijä]

It's interesting that Finns, who suffered from Russians a few times and far more than Estonians, who kept fighting until the success, who have far more reasons to dislike Russia, maintain rational attitude, give Russia credit when it's due and, as shocking as it may sounds for some, are ready to cooperate with Russia if it happens to have a reasonable offer.

But Estonians (at least here) seems to be nothing but bitches who can't stop crying about how bad Russia is.

Estonians did suffer more in many parts of history to be fair, Finns had good times to balance it all.
Estonians belong with Finland and Sweden going in the future, Russia has to accept this and we can all be happy.

[Harkonnen]

cooperate with Russia

Co-operation with Russians is indeed vital for Finns. In fact Russia is one of the reasons why our economic future looks somewhat brighter compared to many of the western European nations. If all goes well, all that area between Helsinki and St.Petersburg (and maybe add Tallinn there too?) has so much potential to grow into a economic powerhouse.

[Äijä]

Co-operation with Russians is indeed vital for Finns. In fact Russia is one of the reasons why our economic future looks somewhat brighter compared to many of the western European nations. If all goes well, all that area between Helsinki and St.Petersburg (and maybe add Tallinn there too?) has so much potential to grow into a economic powerhouse.

This is it, we can be rich together.

[Loki]

I don't hate Russia. I don't hate America. I think they both need an attitude check. You (and RP, another person who doesn't actually live in or come from Russia, or even speak Russian) but not glasses, are very defensive about Russia, seeing shadows in the dark. I would prefer Russia not have as much power as it does, same with the US and China. Competition is good, monopolies are bad.

I think the fact you can't think of a single bad thing is perhaps indicative of an infatuation rather than an in-depth positive appraisal of the situation. There are always bad things about countries and organisations. You read like one of those ultra-Yanks, just about a different country.

No, I have a personal view, made up my mind independently due to reading a wide variety of media and coming to the conclusion: "hey, something doesn't add up here!"

[Loki]

This is it, we can be rich together.

You're not getting any of Russia's wealth, sorry.

[Loki]

Estonians did suffer more in many parts of history to be fair, Finns had good times to balance it all.
Estonians belong with Finland and Sweden going in the future, Russia has to accept this and we can all be happy.

But Russia is accepting Estonia as an independent country. However Estonia takes every opportunity to slam Russia within the UN, EU, and block and veto positive measures. The little country needs to realise how small and insignificant it is.

[Äijä]

You're not getting any of Russia's wealth, sorry.

How is anything designed or produced in Finland, Russian wealth?

[Windischer]

No, I have a personal view, made up my mind independently due to reading a wide variety of media and coming to the conclusion: "hey, something doesn't add up here!"

its your mind that doesnt add up ;)

[Loki]

its your mind that doesnt add up ;)

I seem to be one of the few here who can think for myself, and not just parrot the garbage the Western media feeds you. You are a sucker, you know that?

[Äijä]

But Russia is accepting Estonia as an independent country. However Estonia takes every opportunity to slam Russia within the UN, EU, and block and veto positive measures. The little country needs to realise how small and insignificant it is.

It does not accept if it meddles with internal affairs, but I do agree that then we have to keep out of Russian internal affairs.
And if they decide to persecute some Finnic people we have to take them as refugees.

Our real interest is that North West Russia separates from the Muscovite curse but that does not seem happening.

[RandoBloom]

I seem to be one of the few here who can think for myself, and not just parrot the garbage the Western media feeds you. You are a sucker, you know that?

And what is that? That its OK to do whatever you want, attack countries, divide them, anex them, and what not, simply because you are anti west?
What kind of "personal opinion" is that?

[Loki]

Pure ja, on the other hand, is a clear propagandist. He makes some statements like "there are nukes already in Kaliningrad". And when I challenge him to provide evidence, he keeps quiet.

[Loki]

And what is that? That its OK to do whatever you want, attack countries, divide them, anex them, and what not, simply because you are anti west?
What kind of "personal opinion" is that?

That's what America does, not Russia.

[Loki]

Our real interest is that North West Russia separates from the Muscovite curse but that does not seem happening.

LOL :laugh:

[RandoBloom]

That's what America does, not Russia.

Tell me what country was anexed by US?
Lets see about Russia, it invaded, ocupied and anexed parts of Georgia, simply for not liking what they are doing.
They are ocupying Chechnya and use 19th century justification of civilizating the savages.
They now want to invade Ukraine and anex parts of it.
They also led to Syrian, Lybian conflict escalating, by preventing the quick ending of those.

[Äijä]

Pure ja, on the other hand, is a clear propagandist. He makes some statements like "there are nukes already in Kaliningrad". And when I challenge him to provide evidence, he keeps quiet.

Well they might well have but proving is impossible.

The Iskanders are more for supporting the lack of air power, Russians cant really use a lot of their air force in enemy air space, partly also doctrinal from Soviet times.

[Äijä]

LOL :laugh:

It was a possibility and is again if there are the right conditions.

[Loki]

It was a possibility and is again if there are the right conditions.

Bullshit. More likely, Finland should join Russia.

[Loki]

Tell me what country was anexed by US?
Lets see about Russia, it invaded, ocupied and anexed parts of Georgia, simply for not liking what they are doing.
They are ocupying Chechnya and use 19th century justification of civilizating the savages.
They now want to invade Ukraine and anex parts of it.
They also led to Syrian, Lybian conflict escalating, by preventing the quick ending of those.

You have a very warped view of history. In Syria, the US actually wanted to attack the government and topple it, but Russia prevented it with negotiations. The US led to Gadaffi being overthrown, Afghanistan invaded, Iraq invaded ...

Georgia attacked first, and Russia had to step in to save the day. Which they did.

[Loki]

Well they might well have but proving is impossible.


In other words: pure speculation bullshit.

[RandoBloom]

You have a very warped view of history. In Syria, the US actually wanted to attack the government and topple it, but Russia prevented it with negotiations. The US led to Gadaffi being overthrown, Afghanistan invaded, Iraq invaded ...

Georgia attacked first, and Russia had to step in to save the day. Which they did.

In Syria US wouldnt even need to get involved if Russia didnt encourage Assad to shoot his people and that nothing bad will hapen. He would step down and elections would be held.
Gadaffi wouldnt fight either, if Russia didnt promise to block any NATO involvement.
Georgia attacked first? What are you smoking?

[Nehellenia]

Bullshit. More likely, Finland should join Russia.

Finland were a part of Russia once and they fought to be their own country, i can't see that happening twice :D

[Pure ja]

Russia as such a proud and glorious country now is being bullied by the west to such an extreme..I hope Russians can restore their previous glory and firmly stand up to the west. Western media is very biased.you have to take them with a lot of salt.

Except the most persistent criticism comes from former members of the Warsaw Pact countries and the Baltics and Nordic lands. Assuming the opposite from what Moscow media spreads is closer to the truth.

[Loki]

Finland were a part of Russia once and they fought to be their own country, i can't see that happening twice :D

I'm just responding trolling with trolling.

[Loki]

In Syria US wouldnt even need to get involved if Russia didnt encourage Assad to shoot his people and that nothing bad will hapen. He would step down and elections would be held.
Gadaffi wouldnt fight either, if Russia didnt promise to block any NATO involvement.
Georgia attacked first? What are you smoking?

What am *I* smoking? Reading your posts, you seem to be on weed 24/7.

[Pure ja]

It's interesting that Finns, who suffered from Russians a few times and far more than Estonians


Finns suffered more than estonians from Russians? That claim is certainly interesting, although baseless.




...who kept fighting until the success, who have far more reasons to dislike Russia, maintain rational attitude, give Russia credit when it's due and, as shocking as it may sounds for some, are ready to cooperate with Russia if it happens to have a reasonable offer.


Estonia was the first state in the world to recognize Soviet Russia. Not Finland. USSR was the legal successor of Soviet Russia. Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR. And as a thanks, contemporary RF does not recognize the legal continuity of Estonian Republic and thus also does not recognize the soviet occupation of Estonia. Nevertheless 15% of Estonia's foreign trade is with RF, Estonia has never imposed any economic sanctions against RF while RF repeatedly imposes economic sanctions on Estonian goods. Not a single RF president or prime minister has officially visited Estonia.

Estonia is always open for economic and cultural cooperation. But it takes two.
A week ago the border treaty was signed again, waiting for ratification, again.

Russia should also consider giving back the medallion of the Estonian President that was stolen by soviets in 1940, as well as the historical artefact that were "relocated" from the University of Tartu during WWI.



But Estonians (at least here) seems to be nothing but bitches who can't stop crying about how bad Russia is.

That is glasnost, my dear baby.

[Loki]

Except the most persistent criticism comes from former members of the Warsaw Pact countries and the Baltics and Nordic lands. Assuming the opposite from what Moscow media spreads is closer to the truth.

Estonia is not a Nordic country. Please don't fool yourself.

[Arianiti]

Bullshit. More likely, Finland should join Russia.

:lol:

[Pure ja]

No, I have a personal view, made up my mind independently due to reading a wide variety of media and coming to the conclusion: "hey, something doesn't add up here!"

That is because Kremlin uses the DIVIDE and conquer principle. That is why it does not add up.

[Pure ja]

But Russia is accepting Estonia as an independent country.


Russia does not recognize the legal continuity of Estonia, thus also not recognize the soviet occupation of Estonia.
Russia also does not recognize the 1920 Tartu Peace Treaty between Estonia and Soviet Russia.



However Estonia takes every opportunity to slam Russia within the UN, EU, and block and veto positive measures.


Which positive measures?
And within the EU??? :D



The little country needs to realise how small and insignificant it is.

There are many organisations where all member states are equal. Russia should get used to it.

[Pure ja]

Pure ja, on the other hand, is a clear propagandist. He makes some statements like "there are nukes already in Kaliningrad". And when I challenge him to provide evidence, he keeps quiet.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-russia-missiles-idUSBRE9BF0W020131216

http://rt.com/news/iskander-missile-deployment-russia-317/

[glass]

Well they might well have but proving is impossible.

The Iskanders are more for supporting the lack of air power, Russians cant really use a lot of their air force in enemy air space, partly also doctrinal from Soviet times.
Iskander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K720_Iskander)
hardly a nuke, range up to 400km, this rocket does not carry nuclear warhead.
if NATO strengthen its forces near russian border, Russia have to be ready to counter increased threat

[Pure ja]

Bullshit. More likely, Finland should join Russia.

That would only add to the stomach pain of the Derzhava empire.

[Pure ja]

In other words: pure speculation bullshit.

There is not even proof that Kremlin has nukes. There are only satellite photos - just like from Kaliningrad.

[Pure ja]

Iskander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K720_Iskander)
hardly a nuke, range up to 400km, this rocket does not carry nuclear warhead.
if NATO strengthen its forces near russian border, Russia have to be ready to counter increased threat

Iskanders DO carry nukes, they are tactical nukes.
And yes, the Iskanders behind the Lake Peipus do not reach anything other than the territories of Estonia, Latvia and Finland. Maybe also Lithuania. But not Poland, nor Germany, nor Denmark, nor Norway, nor USA.

There has been no increase of NATO military strength in the Baltics, so your argument is moot. Most of the military balance in the region is 100:0 or 1000:0 in favor of Russia.

[Pure ja]

Estonia is not a Nordic country. Please don't fool yourself.

It is good that you did not assume Estonia to be part of the Baltics - that is progress :)

[Äijä]

Bullshit. More likely, Finland should join Russia.

If St.Petersburg and the NW areas in general dont get a fair treatment from Moscow they will not like that for long.
Putin is from there and tries to keep them happy, who is the next leader we dont know.
These areas want good relations and connections to the Nordic and Baltic countries, it is in their own interest a much as ours.

[Äijä]

Iskanders DO carry nukes, they are tactical nukes.
And yes, the Iskanders behind the Lake Peipus do not reach anything other than the territories of Estonia, Latvia and Finland. Maybe also Lithuania. But not Poland, nor Germany, nor Denmark, nor Norway, nor USA.

There has been no increase of NATO military strength in the Baltics, so your argument is moot. Most of the military balance in the region is 100:0 or 1000:0 in favor of Russia.

The real Iskander range is most likely longer, around 1000km give or take, same as Finnish ballistic missiles they are only software and missile treaty restrictions.

[Loki]

Georgia attacked first? What are you smoking?

Educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Georgia_war

On 5 August, a Russian spokesman said Russia would defend Russian citizens in South Ossetia if they were attacked.

During the night of 7 to 8 August 2008, Georgia launched a large-scale military offensive against South Ossetia, in an attempt to reclaim the territory

[Loki]

If St.Petersburg and the NW areas in general dont get a fair treatment from Moscow they will not like that for long.
Putin is from there and tries to keep them happy, who is the next leader we dont know.
These areas want good relations and connections to the Nordic and Baltic countries, it is in their own interest a much as ours.

There is no dissent in these areas at all. You are making stuff up.

[Loki]

It is good that you did not assume Estonia to be part of the Baltics - that is progress :)

Of course Estonia is in the Baltic region.

[Loki]

There is not even proof that Kremlin has nukes.

:picard1:

[Loki]

Educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Georgia_war

On 5 August, a Russian spokesman said Russia would defend Russian citizens in South Ossetia if they were attacked.

During the night of 7 to 8 August 2008, Georgia launched a large-scale military offensive against South Ossetia, in an attempt to reclaim the territory

An independent report, commissioned by the Council of the European Union stated that the war was started by the Georgian attack "that was not justified by international law". The report said the commission found no evidence for Georgia's claims of being invaded by Russia prior to launching an attack on South Ossetia.

[Matt5898]

These areas want good relations and connections to the Nordic and Baltic countries, it is in their own interest a much as ours.

Do Finns have a special point of view about S-Pb and North-West Russians, not like about Muscovites or average Russians?

[Pure ja]

Educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Georgia_war

On 5 August, a Russian spokesman said Russia would defend Russian citizens in South Ossetia if they were attacked.


That would not be an impartial act for someone pretending to be a peacekeeper.

[Pure ja]

Of course Estonia is in the Baltic region.

No, you assumed it wasn't.

[Äijä]

There is no dissent in these areas at all. You are making stuff up.

There was a campaign in Karelia for joining Finland, by Russians, Putin took notice fast and channeled money.

[Pure ja]

An independent report, commissioned by the Council of the European Union stated that the war was started by the Georgian attack "that was not justified by international law".

Not at all.
That report actually wrote that Georgia ESCALATED the military conflict.



The report said the commission found no evidence for Georgia's claims of being invaded by Russia prior to launching an attack on South Ossetia.

Lack of evidence does not mean evidence of lack.

And the report ALSO stated that irrespective of the actions of a "peacekeeping party", it can only carry on its peacekeeping activities IF both the opposing sides consider that "peacekeeping party" as impartial and peacekeeping. That report clearly states that RF could not have been considered as a peacekeeper long BEFORE the August military conflict. And if you read the report with that notion in mind, everything written gets a very different meaning.

[Äijä]

Do Finns have a special point of view about S-Pb and North-West Russians, not like about Muscovites or average Russians?

Well they are closer and more familiar.
Many Finns like St.Petersburg for the culture it offers and the contacts are are strong in that sector.
Like this. http://www.operafestival.fi/ru

Business links the two regions no matter what the politics would be, it is just a reality.
Finns have been doing volunteer social work in Karelia for decades, that strengthens connections and creates friendships.

[Sarmatian]

Estonians did suffer more in many parts of history to be fair, Finns had good times to balance it all.
Estonians belong with Finland and Sweden going in the future, Russia has to accept this and we can all be happy.

By suffering I mean casualties in military conflicts and all sorts of genocidal activities. If I'm not mistaken Finns had more lives lost due to all sorts of 'misunderstandings' with Russian Empire and USSR.

But Russia doesn't have to accept anything. Estonia is independent country and Russia recognizes the fact. For the rest Russia don't really care. Why should they? Its cold approach towards Estonia is simply result of all the bitchy rhetoric constantly flowing out of this little place. You know it's like when you have some annoying neighbor next door always complaining about something, you acknowledge his presence but don't really want to spend any extra time talking.

[Äijä]

By suffering I mean casualties in military conflicts and all sorts of genocidal activities. If I'm not mistaken Finns had more lives lost due to all sorts of 'misunderstandings' with Russian Empire and USSR.

But Russia doesn't have to accept anything. Estonia is independent country and Russia recognizes the fact. For the rest Russia don't really care. Why should they? Its cold approach towards Estonia is simply result of all the bitchy rhetoric constantly flowing out of this little place. You know it's like when you have some annoying neighbor next door always complaining about something, you acknowledge his presence but don't really want to spend any extra time talking.

Well Finland lost mainly soldiers in the last wars, the one modern war we once talked about was the exception.
Estonia suffered the wiping out of the people Bolsheviks used to wipe out, we know what that does to a country.

[Longbowman]

I seem to be one of the few here who can think for myself, and not just parrot the garbage the Western media feeds you. You are a sucker, you know that?

Just because you think differently from most Westerners really doesn't mean you're thinking for yourself. You've just fallen for another type of propaganda.


That's what America does, and Russia.

Fixed.

So how about all 'em troops Russia is about to send into another nation's sovereign territory without permission?

You're an apologist for another nation; perhaps as a nationalist you're simply looking for something to believe in, some strong country that you've never visited that you can convince yourself is some kind of utopia. And for a nationalist I guess it is.

[Longbowman]

You have a very warped view of history. In Syria, the US actually wanted to attack the government and topple it, but Russia prevented it with negotiations. The US led to Gadaffi being overthrown, Afghanistan invaded, Iraq invaded ...

Georgia attacked first, and Russia had to step in to save the day. Which they did.

Obama wanted to attack the government. Congress shot him down. Russia had nothing to do with it because the two sides do not listen to each other, at all.

[Loki]

There was a campaign in Karelia for joining Finland, by Russians, Putin took notice fast and channeled money.

Karelia is not St Petersburg.

[Loki]

Obama wanted to attack the government. Congress shot him down. Russia had nothing to do with it because the two sides do not listen to each other, at all.

Putin's diplomatic pressure had everything to do with it.

[Loki]

Just because you think differently from most Westerners really doesn't mean you're thinking for yourself. You've just fallen for another type of propaganda.



Fixed.

So how about all 'em troops Russia is about to send into another nation's sovereign territory without permission?

You're an apologist for another nation; perhaps as a nationalist you're simply looking for something to believe in, some strong country that you've never visited that you can convince yourself is some kind of utopia. And for a nationalist I guess it is.

You should apply to be an editor at The Economist. You're an excellent propagandist. But you can't fool me.

[Loki]

You're an apologist for another nation; perhaps as a nationalist you're simply looking for something to believe in, some strong country that you've never visited that you can convince yourself is some kind of utopia. And for a nationalist I guess it is.

I'm not a nationalist. What gave you that idea?

[Longbowman]

You should apply to be an editor at The Economist. You're an excellent propagandist. But you can't fool me.

Paranoia worthy of a Republican.

You should move to Russia, Loki. You'd like it there.

Russia is the big, yellow one on this map of life expectancy:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/30/article-2240855-164836DA000005DC-187_964x541.jpg

[Longbowman]

I'm not a nationalist. What gave you that idea?


Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer (Putin)

A socialist nationalist.

[glass]

So how about all 'em troops Russia is about to send into another nation's sovereign territory without permission?

permissions should come from thugs that seized Kiev and deposed elected president i assume?
people of Crimea asked Russia for help. IS it not enough?

[Longbowman]

permissions should come from thugs that seized Kiev and deposed elected president i assume?
people of Crimea asked Russia for help. IS it not enough?

Thugs with popular support. It's not your place to decide what happens in other nations. Or was the invasion of Iraq justified, as Saddam was an evil dictator?

As for the Crimea; I think if it wants to join Russia, it should, but the military really should not be being sent in, it's not even under attack. Total violation of international law.

[Loki]

A socialist nationalist.

I'm joking with that of course. I support socialism but not nationalism.

[glass]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/30/article-2240855-164836DA000005DC-187_964x541.jpg
map is incorrect like any other info on Russia you present...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

PS: Migla gone mad :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Loki]

As for the Crimea; I think if it wants to join Russia, it should, but the military really should not be being sent in, it's not even under attack. Total violation of international law.

Have you seen the new thread? Crimea's leader has asked Putin for help. Putin has now put it before the Russian Parliament.

[haidian]

Russia now is trying to be nice to its neighbors.But don't take courtesy as being weak.If being pushed too hard,Russia would make you cry a river.

[Loki]

PS: Migla gone mad :laugh::laugh::laugh:

lol, she's got a serious hardon for me.

[Longbowman]

map is incorrect like any other info on Russia you present...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

PS: Migla gone mad :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Even by your link it's still over a decade shorter than in the West.

[Longbowman]

Have you seen the new thread? Crimea's leader has asked Putin for help. Putin has now put it before the Russian Parliament.

Interesting, but like I say, they're not under attack, they don't need military assistance (yet) though of course they should be allowed to join Russia if they want.

[glass]

Even by your link...nope, it isn't.
link says 70, map says 65
how it is correct? ON this map Russia should be darker green

just checked source of this map :laugh: daily mail!:laugh:
you have not been taught how to choose reasonable and reliable sources of information? i would expect it from 10 years old but not from 20 y.o.
very poor education...
Really, dude. UK is known for one of the best education in the world. I can not believe my eyes.

[Longbowman]

link says 70, map says 65
how it is correct? ON this map Russia should be darker green

just checked source of this map :laugh: daily mail!:laugh:
you have not been taught how to choose reasonable and reliable sources of information? i would expect it from 10 years old but not from 20 y.o.
very poor education...
Really, dude. UK is known for one of the best education in the world. I can not believe my eyes.

Dude, I edited my post to reflect this, but yeah, a slight difference. Still, 70? Come on, you guys should be ashamed...

[glass]

Dude, I edited my post to reflect this, but yeah, a slight difference. Still, 70? Come on, you guys should be ashamed...
why should we / i?
btw "Rus originated in Ukraine" is still funniest nonsense today!

[Loki]

Interesting, but like I say, they're not under attack, they don't need military assistance (yet) though of course they should be allowed to join Russia if they want.

Acting president has actually called together law enforcement agencies to take charge of Crimea. So there was a serious threat there. Better nip it in the bud before it starts.

[Loki]

Ukrainians must be the lowest of all the Slavic peoples. They're a disgrace, actually.

[Longbowman]

why should we / i?
btw "Rus originated in Ukraine" is still funniest nonsense today!

Because 70 is developing-world level.

[Longbowman]

Acting president has actually called together law enforcement agencies to take charge of Crimea. So there was a serious threat there. Better nip it in the bud before it starts.

Oh no, not the primarily ethnically Russian police force that carries out the law. What next, blackshirts?

[Longbowman]

Ukrainians must be the lowest of all the Slavic peoples. They're a disgrace, actually.

You're a disgrace for writing that.

[glass]

Because 70 is developing-world level.
so?
i do not really understand how should i be ashamed of things unrelated to me?

[Windischer]

seems like loki switched from being a western leftie to licking oriental gangster-capitalistic asses ;)

[Loki]

Oh no, not the primarily ethnically Russian police force that carries out the law. What next, blackshirts?

Many of these revolutionaries are actually Neo-Nazis.

[Loki]

seems like loki switched from being a western leftie to licking oriental gangster-capitalistic asses ;)

We just have a lot of media-sucking Russia-haters here on Apricty. Unfortunately. I prefer to think for myself.

I was actually very anti-Russian 10 years ago. Until I met Hors back on Skadi. It forced me to read up more about stuff, and I realised I was actually very wrong all along.

[Windischer]

We just have a lot of media-sucking Russia-haters here on Apricty. Unfortunately. I prefer to think for myself.

I was actually very anti-Russian 10 years ago. Until I met Hors back on Skadi. It forced me to read up more about stuff, and I realised I was actually very wrong all along.

so you oscillate between antirussian (fanatic) and prorussian (fanatic). if thats what you call "thinking for yourself"... well, whatever pulls your cart.
how does putins wild ultracapitalism go with your leftie views, though? :D

[Scandalf]

seems like loki switched from being a western leftie to licking oriental gangster-capitalistic asses ;)

That's what I like about him: he's constantly seeking controversy.
He only pretends to be those things...
The truth is unknown.

[Windischer]

That's what I like about him: he's constantly seeking controversy.
He only pretends to be those things...
The truth is unknown.

i have this impression, though sometimes rather not than yes ;)

[Jackson]

That's what I like about him: he's constantly seeking controversy.
He only pretends to be those things...
The truth is unknown.

Well the deity Loki is a trickster, so... :P

[Scandalf]

Well the deity Loki is a trickster, so... :P

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/11/LOKI_approves.gif

[Longbowman]

Many of these revolutionaries are actually Neo-Nazis.

Many Russians who support Putin are fascist dicks and indeed Neo-Nazis, what's your point?

[Loki]

Many Russians who support Putin are fascist dicks and indeed Neo-Nazis, what's your point?

No, that is not true. They support Zhirinovsky. Putin is vehemently against Nazism.

You need to read up more, son. But you are young, I give you that.

[Loki]

That's what I like about him: he's constantly seeking controversy.
He only pretends to be those things...
The truth is unknown.

No, rubbish. What I write about foreign policy is what I actually believe. I'm really surprised at the amount of Putin hate on this forum. We need to get more Russians. I know a few good ones, I'll see what I can do.

[Loki]

Longbowman, how old were you when Putin came to power? 5 years old?

[Longbowman]

Longbowman, how old were you when Putin came to power? 5 years old?

Gosh, has it been 15 years? That does happen in democracies regardless of term limits.

[Longbowman]

No, that is not true. They support Zhirinovsky. Putin is vehemently against Nazism.

You need to read up more, son. But you are young, I give you that.

Putin isn't a Nazi. But he is a nationalist and he doesn't care where his support comes from. The politicians of Ukraine aren't Nazis either.

[Pure ja]

I'm not a nationalist. What gave you that idea?

Whether you are a russian nationalist or a russian internationalist or a russian apologist, it does not really matter - basically it is all the same.

[Pure ja]

Russia now is trying to be nice to its neighbors.But don't take courtesy as being weak.If being pushed too hard,Russia would make you cry a river.

If that is nice, we will cry a deluge 100 km thick while we still can. It is a perfect time to cry wolf.

[Pure ja]

Have you seen the new thread? Crimea's leader has asked Putin for help. Putin has now put it before the Russian Parliament.

That "call for help" was forwarded only after Russian troops had already secured the most important points in Crimea. The Crimean leader might well have made that call with a gun pointed to his head. Would not be the first time in the history of Russia.

[Loki]

That "call for help" was forwarded only after Russian troops had already secured the most important points in Crimea. The Crimean leader might well have made that call with a gun pointed to his head. Would not be the first time in the history of Russia.

Retard

[Pure ja]

Ukrainians must be the lowest of all the Slavic peoples. They're a disgrace, actually.

Glad you wrote down what's on your mind. That is glasnost. Don't hold back not even your darkest dreams.

[Pure ja]

No, that is not true. They support Zhirinovsky. Putin is vehemently against Nazism.

You need to read up more, son. But you are young, I give you that.

The Dugin crap is nazism.

[Pure ja]

No, rubbish. What I write about foreign policy is what I actually believe. I'm really surprised at the amount of Putin hate on this forum. We need to get more Russians. I know a few good ones, I'll see what I can do.

I am sure Putin can afford some reinforcements to you. Maybe even bots.

[Pure ja]

Retard

Read up on the history of Päts.

[RussiaPrussia]

so you oscillate between antirussian (fanatic) and prorussian (fanatic). if thats what you call "thinking for yourself"... well, whatever pulls your cart.
how does putins wild ultracapitalism go with your leftie views, though? :D


That's what I like about him: he's constantly seeking controversy.
He only pretends to be those things...
The truth is unknown.

russia is no way near as capitalistic as western countries, yes it has oligarchy and 13% flat tax rate but on the other more than 50% belongs to the state and therefor to the russian people.

http://rt.com/business/russia-state-economy-privatization-043/

http://img.rt.com/files/business/news/russia-state-economy-privatization-043/afp-photojim-watson.si.jpg


Many Russians who support Putin are fascist dicks and indeed Neo-Nazis, what's your point?

thats why putins secret love is a tarian muslim with who he has a child with, thats why russia has the highest immigration rate in easter europe

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html#rs

above norway and sweden

because hes a nazi and people only support him because they are nazis


Gosh, has it been 15 years? That does happen in democracies regardless of term limits.

BS, look at merkel shes almost as long in power as putin now. Or look at berlusconi best example. All legit democracies no one questions


Putin isn't a Nazi. But he is a nationalist and he doesn't care where his support comes from. The politicians of Ukraine aren't Nazis either.

hes patriot who loves his country and all people living in it, even these brats pussy riot.

[Longbowman]

[QUOTE]thats why putins secret love is a tarian muslim with who he has a child with, thats why russia has the highest immigration rate in easter europe

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html#rs

above norway and sweden

because hes a nazi and people only support him because they are nazis

I guess you can't call us Nazis anymore, then? Because of immigration? I didn't call Putin a Nazi anyway so you're barking up the wrong tree.


BS, look at merkel shes almost as long in power as putin now. Or look at berlusconi best example. All legit democracies no one questions


What? Berlusconi's going to jail. And Merkel's been PM since 2005. So nope, you lose. Nice try. Play again?


hes patriot who loves his country and all people living in it, even these brats pussy riot.

:laugh:

He surely loves Pussy Riot and gays.

[Loki]

Glad you wrote down what's on your mind. That is glasnost. Don't hold back not even your darkest dreams.

What I meant was that Ukrainians are the poorest of all Slavic peoples. This is a fact.

[Loki]

Read up on the history of Päts.

I know more about history than you probably ever will.

[Loki]

I am sure Putin can afford some reinforcements to you. Maybe even bots.

It's weird that you don't want to allow me to have my opinion :)

[RussiaPrussia]

What I meant was that Ukrainians are the poorest of all Slavic peoples. This is a fact.

not only slavic but all of europe after Moldavia, belarus is also segnificant richer despite having no recources

[Pure ja]

What I meant was that Ukrainians are the poorest of all Slavic peoples. This is a fact.

So you admit that you misrepresented yourself? Because that was not what you are claiming now.

[Pure ja]

I know more about history than you probably ever will.

Then you really have no excuses.

[Pure ja]

It's weird that you don't want to allow me to have my opinion :)

Do you even have one? And have you represented it?

If you are so good at history, you are certainly aware of Stalin's plan of Operation Groza - his speeches on the matter, etc., etc. And with the communist manifest. And when bolsheviks heralded the coming of WWII and their planned part in it.

[Loki]

So you admit that you misrepresented yourself? Because that was not what you are claiming now.

No :rolleyes:

[Loki]

Then you really have no excuses.

You are either a retard or you're very young. 15 or so.

[glass]

You are either a retard or you're very young. 15 or so.
he claimed he was living during soviet times and even tried spare his memories, but he does not look like 40+ years old indeed

[Pure ja]

You are either a retard or you're very young. 15 or so.

I do have soviet upbringing. Your petty psychology does not work on me.

[Longbowman]

No :rolleyes:

You called Ukrainians the 'lowest Slavs' and 'a disgrace.' That doesn't lend itself to being read as the poorest.

[Mortimer]

china and russia make good allies

[Äijä]

china and russia make good allies

They really dont in the long run.

[Loki]

I do have soviet upbringing. Your petty psychology does not work on me.

You must be senile then. Or really retarded. Or simply trolling for the fun of it.

[Loki]

They really dont in the long run.

When it comes to World War III, they will stick together.

[Unome]

China "slams" West while Russia invades a foreign country potentially starting a major wider war?!

What hypocrisy is this?!

And these accusations of US funding Ukraine "$5bil" are just empty lies and propaganda. Where is the $5bil? What does it look like? Did Ukraine get a few commercials in the Superbowl game? Because that's what $5bil can buy, maybe. Where are the tanks and guns?

[glass]

And these accusations of US funding Ukraine "$5bil" are just empty lies and propaganda.
Nuland said it. So you too think that Nuland is russian agent?

[Unome]

Nuland said it. So you too think that Nuland is russian agent?
Saying is nothing, where is the evidence? What does the $5bil look like? Who has it? What is its form?

However this is just anti-US propaganda, a minor distraction to justify the larger scheme.

[Longbowman]

If it comes to World War III, they will stick together.

[Pure ja]

You must be senile then. Or really retarded. Or simply trolling for the fun of it.

I keep open the possibility that you are trolling to profiteer from war. Jews do that.

See, I can do that as well.