Bulgars racial anthropology.

[ButlerKing]

In Russian forum a table showed they had 60% R1a and 25% Q
70% Western Eurasian mtDNA and 30% Eastern Eurasian mtDNA.

Note* I'm going to find and post this later.

R1a is predominant in Slavs, and Central Asian Iranian Tajiks, Pamiris.
Q is dominant in Siberian Mongoloid Turkics

http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0904/b0/27ae963ff45a.jpg
http://www.iriston.com/nogbon/pictures/Tabol/jivko_cherep_20.jpg


Anthropology of the Bulgars
http://www.iriston.com/nogbon/print.php?newsid=368
http://aquilaaquilonis.livejournal.com/86049.html

Russian translation to English

"It is interesting that male Bulgars were somewhat more Mongoloid than female Bulgars although not significantly different, it is still closer to the brachicranial Caucasoid"

" The population has abandoned medieval cemetery Small Minaret, was mixed in anthropological terms. Along with representatives brachicranial Caucasoid type are representatives of the Mongoloid race. Women's series is not significantly different from men, but, in our view, it is more Caucasoid than men. Apparently, carriers Mongoloid elements was a male part of the population who came to this territory as conquerors. (P. 93)

This clearly means

Bulgars = Iranian Caucasoids with Mongoloid admixtures.




1. ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgars
Anthropology evidence.

" Bulgars were Oghur Turkic,[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12] with Scytho-Sarmatian[13][14] and Sarmatian-Alan[15][16] elements. There is a discussion whether these Sarmatian elements in the cultural characteristics of the Proto-Bulgars are based on Sarmatized Turks or Turkicized Sarmatians.[17] They had also enveloped other ethnic groups by their migration westwards across the Eurasian steppe.[18][19] "

"This finding is consistent with a model in which the Turkic languages were gradually imposed in Central Asia and East European Plain on Caucasian (Scythian & Finno-Ugrian) peoples with relatively little genetic admixture, another possible example of a language shift through elite dominance. "

2.RUSSIAN WIKIPEDIA

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Булгары
Archaeology and paleoanthropology

Materials Zlivkinskogo necropolis (Ukraine) [22] , cemeteries Crimea [23] and mounds in the Volga and Danube Bulgaria [24] show that the Bulgars treated brahiokrannym (round or short head) Europoids [25] . By craniological Zlivkinskogo repository related to Saltovo-Mayaki culture, physical type Bulgarians is set to "brachicranial Caucasoid with weakened Mongoloid features, the average size of face and skull. characteristic of both Asian and for part of the European Sarmatians [28] (excluding the Alans , whose physical type was dolihokrannym Caucasoid [29] ), for rivers Amu Darya and Syr Darya and is expected to homeland Proto-Bulgarians [30] of cemeteries Iranian-speaking peoples, also in modern Pamir peoples [31] . Caucasian origin brahiokranii Proto, binds to the so-called paleo-Euroipeoid groups .

[ButlerKing]

This is what it said

" expected to homeland Proto-Bulgarians [30] of cemeteries Iranian-speaking peoples, also in modern Pamir peoples "

In other words the Tajiks Pamiris are descendants of Bulgars


http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr291/sambor1965/2009_adv/afghan/sarhad2/P8140884_resize.jpg

[ButlerKing]

More Pamiris. True descendants of Bulgars!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5jExECBr3tI/TIhiRCICuZI/AAAAAAAAAM4/tIuP2NBBwlE/s1600/IMG_3412.JPG
http://villegia-tour.fr/blog/wp-content/gallery/tadjikistan_ichkachim/SDC10629.JPG
http://www.biciklisto.de/Pamir/44_WEB.JPG


I was surprised this guy was Tajik I though he was Kazakh/Kyrgyz

http://www.pamirs.org/images/other_people/images/blue%20eyed%20man%20kone%20kurgon.jpg

[ButlerKing]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72799&d=1359811642

[ButlerKing]

Haplogroup Q in Europe could be explained by Bulgars migrations

In Italy and south Europe there was haplogroup Q

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Bulgar_subsequent_migrations_in_Europe..jpg

[Smeagol]

Haplogroup Q in Europe could be explained by Bulgars migrations

In Italy and south Europe there was haplogroup Q

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Bulgar_subsequent_migrations_in_Europe..jpg

How do you explain haplogroup Q in Scandinavians, and Ashkenazi Jews?

[ButlerKing]

Bulgars mornachy.


The second bulgarian empire. Emperor of Bulgarians and Vlachs


Third brother of Asen and Petar. Expanded Bulgaria and concluded a Union with the Catholic Church. Murdered by plotters during the siege of Salonica.[40]

Kaloyan 1197–1207

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/NHMB-Anthrolopogical-reconstruction-of-the-head-of-Tsar-Kaloyan-by-Prof.Yordan-Yordanov.jpg

Emperor Michael II Asen 1246–1256 Son of Ivan Asen II. Murdered by his cousin Kaliman

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Michael-Asen-Kastoria.jpg

[ButlerKing]

How do you explain haplogroup Q in Scandinavians, and Ashkenazi Jews?

Haplogroup Q in Scandivanian can be explained by the fact that some Uralic groups also have more than 10% Q

And Ashkenazi jews can be explained by the fact they had Khazar ancestry which explains whey there is 0.2 to 3.8% East Asian ancestry in Askenazi jews.

[Anglojew]

25% Q is a lot.

[Smeagol]

Haplogroup Q in Scandivanian can be explained by the fact that some Uralic groups also have more than 10% Q

But the Saami actually don't have any Q.


And Ashkenazi jews can be explained by the fact they had Khazar ancestry which explains whey there is 0.2 to 3.8% East Asian ancestry in Askenazi jews.

I agree, Ashkenazis have minor Khazar ancestry.

[ButlerKing]

But the Saami actually don't have any Q.


Saami are not the only Uralic group.

[Smeagol]

Saami are not the only Uralic group.

They're the only one native to Scandinavia.

[ButlerKing]

They're the only one native to Scandinavia.

No their not. There is also Nenets, and smaller number of other Uralic people in Scandivania. Also close southern Scandivania next to Finland are many different groups

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Fenno-Ugrian_people.png

[Smeagol]

No their not. There is also Nenets, and smaller number of other Uralic people in Scandivania. Also close southern Scandivania next to Finland are many different groups

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Fenno-Ugrian_people.png

Nenets are not native to Scandinavia. Maybe there are a few there, but they aren't natives, and that can't be the reason for all the Haplogroup Q in Scandinavians.

[ButlerKing]

Nenets are not native to Scandinavia. Maybe there are a few there, but they aren't natives, and that can't be the reason for all the Haplogroup Q in Scandinavians.

Aside from Nenets there are also small number of Keralian, Komi living with Saami. Some Saami don't live Scandinavia either.

Haplogroup Q is more dominant in Southern Scandinavia where is there is many Uralic groups with 7% Q and next to Uralic groups there is the kets 93% Q and Selkup with 65% Q both them are predominately Mongoloid.

[ButlerKing]

Bulgarians seems to have from 1% Q remaining.


The approximate distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups among the Bulgarian people runs as follows:

16% E1b1b
1% G2a
3% I1
20% I2a (very common among South Slavic people)
1% I2b
20% J2
1% Q
18% R1a
18% R1b
1% T

Here are mtDNA haplogroups found among Bulgarians:

38% H (of which 10% are in the subclades H1 and H3 combined)
10% J
6.5% T
20% U (of which 10% are in U3, 6.5% in U4, and 3.5% in U5)
13% K

[ButlerKing]

Major studies of Bulgarians

Sena Karachanak, Viola Grugni, Simona Fornarino, Desislava Nesheva, Nadia Al-Zahery, Vincenza Battaglia, Valeria Carossa, Yordan Yordanov, Antonio Torroni, Angel S. Galabov, Draga Toncheva, and Ornella Semino. "Y-Chromosome Diversity in Modern Bulgarians: New Clues about Their Ancestry." PLoS ONE 8:3 (March 6, 2013): e56779. Following its presentation at conferences in the years 2011 and 2012 (see further below), this Y-DNA study has now been released as an electronic open-access publication. The number of Bulgarian males in the final report is 808, not the 809 or 812 they counted at the conferences, so there must have been problems with 4 of the samples. The study declares, "Only individuals whose fathers were of Bulgarian origin and were born in the country were included in the study." Excerpts from the Abstract:

"[...] We found that the Y-chromosome gene pool in modern Bulgarians is primarily represented by Western Eurasian haplogroups with ~ 40% belonging to haplogroups E-V13 and I-M423, and 20% to R-M17. Haplogroups common in the Middle East (J and G) and in South Western Asia (R-L23*) occur at frequencies of 19% and 5%, respectively. Haplogroups C, N and Q, distinctive for Altaic and Central Asian Turkic-speaking populations, occur at the negligible frequency of only 1.5%. Principal Component analyses group Bulgarians with European populations, apart from Central Asian Turkic-speaking groups and South Western Asia populations. Within the country, the genetic variation is structured in Western, Central and Eastern Bulgaria indicating that the Balkan Mountains have been permeable to human movements. The lineage analysis provided the following interesting results: (i) R-L23* is present in Eastern Bulgaria since the post glacial period; (ii) haplogroup E-V13 has a Mesolithic age in Bulgaria from where it expanded after the arrival of farming; (iii) haplogroup J-M241 probably reflects the Neolithic westward expansion of farmers from the earliest sites along the Black Sea. On the whole, in light of the most recent historical studies, which indicate a substantial proto-Bulgarian input to the contemporary Bulgarian people, our data suggest that a common paternal ancestry between the proto-Bulgarians and the Altaic and Central Asian Turkic-speaking populations either did not exist or was negligible."

[ButlerKing]

Pamiri family

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2294/1958575690_23322253ae_z.jpg?zz=1

[ButlerKing]

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2161/1958551360_b1dca7b555.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/TJKAAPamiri_Tajik.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9020/pamiris.jpg

[solaris]

Pamiri family

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2294/1958575690_23322253ae_z.jpg?zz=1

from the clothing style point of view, ur mom (i mean the user..) is a true bulgar.

[The King, I am]

pish pash tish tosh ButlerKing

[ButlerKing]

from the clothing style point of view, ur mom (i mean the user..) is a true bulgar.

Bulgars were related to Tajiks and their clothing style are Iranian. I'm no Tajik.

[morski]

Bulgaras were in Europe for the last 3 or 4 centuries prior to establishing the First Bulgarian Empire in the Balkans, so I doubt they looked much like those Pamiris and Tajiks BK is posting.

[ButlerKing]

Bulgaras were in Europe for the last 3 or 4 centuries prior to establishing the First Bulgarian Empire in the Balkans, so I doubt they looked much like those Pamiris and Tajiks,BK is posting.

There were Bulgars women aswell.

[d3cimat3d]

More Pamiris. True descendants of Bulgars!!!


That is a fringe theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Balhara

In reality the Bulgars came from far north of that:
http://i59.tinypic.com/t9h99v.jpg

[bimo]

from http://www.angelfire.com/bug/berberian12/bulgars.htm


In fact, in excavations of Bulgarian necropolis in which there were burials of people with the same manner of life and culture, proofs have come to light that they were all subjects of the same state, although they were of different races - burials of individuals of all the races living at that time, from the Pacific to the Atlantic - from Mongoloids to Aryans. One thing is sure, the Bulgars were tall and strong. When the average height of the European in the Middle Ages was 1.60 m., the average height of the Bulgarian was 1.75 m. An Arabian geographer of that time complained: Ten of our men can not overcome one Bulgarian". The explanation given by scientists for their extraordinary height and strength is that they ate very much meat and had very much physical exercise. The Bulgars had numerous highly productive herds which provided them with food and they did strenuous physical exercises in their spell of military service that was obligatory for every healthy man who was of full age.

[Shah-Jehan]

from http://www.angelfire.com/bug/berberian12/bulgars.htm

Butlerking is talking about Turkic speaking Volga Bulgars not Slavic Bulgarians.

[bimo]

Butlerking is talking about Turkic speaking Volga Bulgars not Slavic Bulgarians.

both are related to proto-bulgarians

[Trun]

Bulgar burials show soldiers were mostly Pontids with occasional Corded influence. Mongoloid was visible only in Turkic aristocrasy.

Pamiri people carry very distant relation to Bulgars, if any. Less than modern Balkan, Volga and Caucasus Bulgarians for sure.

[Shah-Jehan]

Bulgar burials show soldiers were mostly Pontids with occasional Corded influence. Mongoloid was visible only in Turkic aristocrasy.

Pamiri people carry very distant relation to Bulgars, if any. Less than modern Balkan, Volga and Caucasus Bulgarians for sure.
what are volga and Caucasus Bulgarians?

[Mazik]

Aside from Nenets there are also small number of Keralian, Komi living with Saami. Some Saami don't live Scandinavia either.

Haplogroup Q is more dominant in Southern Scandinavia where is there is many Uralic groups with 7% Q and next to Uralic groups there is the kets 93% Q and Selkup with 65% Q both them are predominately Mongoloid.

If it would have reached southern Scandinavia through Finland, wouldn't Finns have a much higher rate of haplogroup Q?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-Q.gif

[Trun]

what are volga and Caucasus Bulgarians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Tatars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkars

[Argang]

If it would have reached southern Scandinavia through Finland, wouldn't Finns have a much higher rate of haplogroup Q?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-Q.gif

Don't dispute ButlerKing's haplomastery. If he says there are Komi living in southern Scandinavia, he must be right. In fact, maybe all haplogroup Q Komi and Saami moved there because the ones in Russia and Northern Scandinavia seem to be 0% Q...

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

[ButlerKing]

If it would have reached southern Scandinavia through Finland, wouldn't Finns have a much higher rate of haplogroup Q?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-Q.gif

NO. Why must it be like that? Finns having less rate of Q could be due to many factors. Like for one Swedes and norwegian may have had earlier contact with uralic tribes before the Finns people were formed. And two Gotland of sweden is like a stepping stone for the Uralic and might have migrated from there.

[ButlerKing]

Don't dispute ButlerKing's haplomastery. If he says there are Komi living in southern Scandinavia, he must be right. In fact, maybe all haplogroup Q Komi and Saami moved there because the ones in Russia and Northern Scandinavia seem to be 0% Q...

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

You used Eupedia. Many have already dabated the data is inaccurate. For example
According to Eupedia, Norway has 0.5% of Q which is average European. Ukraine has 5 % . Although I think one Komi group is indeed 0% Q


Btw I don't claimed Saami have haplogroup Q but the Komi and Khanty do.


And for your info Komi have many different subgroups.


For example the Komi Zyryans and Komi Permyaks have different DNA



http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/WorldHaplogroupsMaps/Komi-ZyryansMT_DNA.gif
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/WorldHaplogroupsMaps/Komi-PermyaksMT_DNA.gif

[Argang]

You used Eupedia. Many have already dabated the data is inaccurate. For example
According to Eupedia, Norway has 0.5% of Q which is average European. Ukraine has 5 % . Although I think one Komi group is indeed 0% Q


Btw I don't claimed Saami have haplogroup Q but the Komi and Khanty do.


And for your info Komi have many different subgroups.


For example the Komi Zyryans and Komi Permyaks have different DNA




If you're going to make a claim you should be able to back it up. Those MtDNA graphs don't prove Komi have Y-dna Q. Even Russians living in Mezen next to Nenets territory have zero Q.

http://www.ydna.ru/files/russia.gif

[ButlerKing]

Haplogroup Q is very rare in Uralic people that is why it's only 0.5 - 1% in Scandinavia. In One Komi group is 5% and in Khanty is 7% but many studies shows only 0-2%.

[ButlerKing]

If you're going to make a claim you should be able to back it up. Those MtDNA graphs don't prove Komi have Y-dna Q. Even Russians living in Mezen next to Nenets territory have zero Q.

http://www.ydna.ru/files/russia.gif

No those graph prove that different Komi subgroups have different DNA.
Haplogroup Q is very rare in Uralic to begin with even more rare in Scandivians.


I'll show you the data soon enough. But what are you trying to prove with a Russian study that is slavic samples?

[Argang]

No those graph prove that different Komi subgroups have different DNA.
Haplogroup Q is very rare in Uralic to begin with even more rare in Scandivians.


I'll show you the data soon enough. But what are you trying to prove with a Russian study that is slavic samples?

That living next to Nenets doesn't prove Q DNA.

Q is rarer in Komi and Russians than in Scandinavia. It is also rarer in Estonia, Finland, Latvia and Lithuania, and Saami, so it can't originate from there.

[ButlerKing]

If you're going to make a claim you should be able to back it up. Those MtDNA graphs don't prove Komi have Y-dna Q. Even Russians living in Mezen next to Nenets territory have zero Q.

http://www.ydna.ru/files/russia.gif



You see this is what pissed me off the most. What is the point of posting a study on the INTERNET an than remove it?


The study I found Komi with 5% Q and Khanty with 7% Q is in this study.

Northwest Siberian Khanty and Mansi in the junction of West and ...
bhusers.upf.edu/dcomas/wp-content/uploads/2011/.../Pimenoff2008.pdf‎
by VN Pimenoff - ‎2008 - ‎Cited by 18 - ‎Related articles
28 May 2008 - individuals from Khanty and Mansi ethnic groups in Northwest Siberia. In addition ..... frequent haplogroups are N2 (33.4%), Q (23.7%) and N3.

One Uralic group ( I think it was Mansi) had 23.7% haplogroup Q


---------------------


Khanty with haplogroup Q is already posted on the wikipedia

Q-M346 is found among the Khanty.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242

[ButlerKing]

That living next to Nenets doesn't prove Q DNA.

Q is rarer in Komi and Russians than in Scandinavia. It is also rarer in Estonia, Finland, Latvia and Lithuania, and Saami, so it can't originate from there.


In these study haplogroup Q in Norwegians, swedens is 0%


http://oi49.tinypic.com/64jzgg.jpg


Nenets have 1.4% haplogroup Q in another study showed them with 6.5% Q

http://i45.tinypic.com/25r13ki.png

[Anglojew]

HPamiri Y-DNA doesn't have any Q which means the Proto-Bulgars obtained it from the Scythians during their westward migration ;

Sample size = 99

R1a1 - 39%
F (Everything that's not A/B/C/D/E) - 16%
P (P*, R/R1/R2/R2a/R1a/R1b, Q/Q1/Q1a/Q1b) - 10%
L (L1/L2/L3) - 10%
R2a - 7%
J2 (J2a/J2b) - 6%
R1 (R1*, R1a, R1b) - 5%
E (Probably E1b1b1a/E1b1b1a2/E1b1b1c1) - 5%
C (Probably C3 or C5) - 1%

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/18/10244/T1.large.jpg

[ButlerKing]

HPamiri Y-DNA doesn't have any Q which means the Proto-Bulgars obtained it from the Scythians during their westward migration ;

Sample size = 99

R1a1 - 39%
F (Everything that's not A/B/C/D/E) - 16%
P (P*, R/R1/R2/R2a/R1a/R1b, Q/Q1/Q1a/Q1b) - 10%
L (L1/L2/L3) - 10%
R2a - 7%
J2 (J2a/J2b) - 6%
R1 (R1*, R1a, R1b) - 5%
E (Probably E1b1b1a/E1b1b1a2/E1b1b1c1) - 5%
C (Probably C3 or C5) - 1%

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/18/10244/T1.large.jpg

Actually they do. The study shows here with haplogroup P. Half of it could be 5% Q ( or more possibly 6-8%) the rest is R1a 5%

Haplogroup C in Tajiks have to be Mongolian C3. It couldn't be Australian aboriginals or Dravidian C5.

[Argang]

[SIZE=3][B]In these study haplogroup Q in Norwegians, swedens is 0%

Those studies are over a decade old and have a small sample size. It's now well established that there is noticeable Q in Scandinavia and certain areas in Southern France.

OTOH it hasn't been found in populations like Komi.

[Anglojew]

Actually they do. The study shows here with haplogroup P. Half of it could be 5% Q ( or more possibly 6-8%) the rest is R1a 5%

Haplogroup C in Tajiks have to be Mongolian C3. It couldn't be Australian aboriginals or Dravidian C5.

Not 30% but good point.

[ButlerKing]

Those studies are over a decade old and have a small sample size. It's now well established that there is noticeable Q in Scandinavia and certain areas in Southern France.

OTOH it hasn't been found in populations like Komi.

How many studies of Komi have you read?

Those studies are from 2002 and 2003 and showed Swedes/Norgwegians have 0% Q and haplogroup Q in France are extremely isolated cases

Established? I don't think so those Swedes/Norwegians with Q were also very small number of samples like 1 out of 30 but in many studies they don't even exist

You said Uralics don't have Q and I proved you wrong. You said it wasn't found in Nenets and I proved you wrong again. Komi have 5% Q but I'll need to find another paper

[ButlerKing]

Not 30% but good point.

There are many types of Pamiri the Shughni–Yazgulami branch, Munji–Yidgha, Sanglechi and Ishkashmi.

I seriously doubt all these Pamiri group have the same Y-DNA.

[Argang]

How many studies of Komi have you read? those studies are from 2002 and 2003 and showed Swedes/Norgwegians have 0% Q and haplogroup Q in France are extremely isolated
cases

No studies with Q in Komi because there isn't any.
You said that the study below would show 5% Q in Komi but was deleted. It's not nice to lie, true scousers don't lie...

"Northwest Siberian Khanty and Mansi in the junction of West and ..."
(http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/full/ejhg2008101a.html)

Q in Scandinavia OTOH is an established fact, it's made its way to Wikipedia too so better run to edit the page if you don't believe it. ;)


You said it wasn't found in Nenets

Komi, and still isn't.

[ButlerKing]

No studies with Q in Komi because there isn't any.
You said that the study below would show 5% Q in Komi but was deleted. It's not nice to lie, true scousers don't lie...

"Northwest Siberian Khanty and Mansi in the junction of West and ..."
(http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/full/ejhg2008101a.html)

Q in Scandinavia OTOH is an established fact, it's made its way to Wikipedia too so better run to edit the page if you don't believe it. ;)



Komi, and still isn't.

That is the same study but not the same paper.

Komi have haplogroup Q. Show me the list of ethnicities with their listed haplogroup and you will see

Try showing me a another study swedes/Norwegian having that much Q:rolleyes: Than I will believe in your so called established fact

[Argang]

That is the same study but not the same paper.

Komi have haplogroup Q. Show me the list of ethnicities with their listed haplogroup and you will see

It's the same study.


One Uralic group ( I think it was Mansi) had 23.7% haplogroup Q



Now what did I say about lying? (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/fig_tab/ejhg2008101t1.html#figure-title) :eusa_naughty:

[ButlerKing]

It's the same study.





Now what did I say about lying? (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/fig_tab/ejhg2008101t1.html#figure-title) :eusa_naughty:


I said I think which means I wasn't 100% sure. :rolleyes:


Where as Komi with 5% haplogroup Q is a fact. I will show you soon....

[Argang]

I said I think which means I wasn't 100% sure. :rolleyes:


Where as Komi with 5% haplogroup Q is a fact. I will show you soon....

You said that study would show 7% Q for Khanty, so remember to deliver on that too.:thumb001:

[ButlerKing]

It's the same study.





Now what did I say about lying? (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/fig_tab/ejhg2008101t1.html#figure-title) :eusa_naughty:


While I post it. why don't you show me your established fact about Norwegian with haplogroup Q.


That study you posted is properly some back up version or newer version of the same study but it obviously missed the list of ethnicities and their haplogroup.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/9982/norway6ex.jpg

[Argang]

While I post it. why don't you show me your established fact about Norwegian with haplogroup Q.


Nah, it's established enough that I won't. Norway DNA project's Y-lineages are 2,7% Q though.

And by the way, that P(xR1a/R1b) is not P(xQ). Now waiting for the 5% Komi/7% Khanty. Remember the sample sizes too.

By the way, make friends with Gurka Atla from EUPedia, I'm sure you would get well along. ;)

[ButlerKing]

Nah, it's established enough that I won't. Norway DNA project's Y-lineages are 2,7% Q though.

And by the way, that P(xR1a/R1b) is not P(xQ). Now waiting for the 5% Komi/7% Khanty. Remember the sample sizes too.

By the way, make friends with Gurka Atla from EUPedia, I'm sure you would get well along. ;)


Don't worry I will.

Btw I'm not trying to call you a liar but show me this Norwegian with haplogroup 2.7% Q.:rolleyes: on average. You said it's established enough I guess that means you're very correct about.

Show me a list of sample sizes with Norwegian having 2.7% Q

[Argang]

Don't worry I will.

Btw I'm not trying to call you a liar but show me

It'd be a honor to be called as such by you, so I'll link nothing. You can go to FTdna's Norway project, count the Q's with earliest paternal ancestor in Norway, divide by total number of Y-haplos.

You might want to do the same with Sweden project too, or ask Gurka atla to do it while you count Norway's samples.

[ButlerKing]

It'd be a honor to be called as such by you, so I'll link nothing. You can go to FTdna's Norway project, count the Q's with earliest paternal ancestor in Norway, divide by total number of Y-haplos.

You might want to do the same with Sweden project too, or ask Gurka atla to do it while you count Norway's samples.


What B.S excuses. Even in Europedia it was 0.5% and studies shows it to be 2002 and 2003 was 0%. There is no way that the average Swedes are 2.7% Q in most studies

I know you think I'm lying.
but at least believe I wasn't lying about the part about Komi. I said many groups are genetically different from eachother which is a fact.


Abstract

" Several studies examined the fine-scale structure of human genetic variation in Europe. However, the European sets analyzed represent mainly northern, western, central, and southern Europe. Here, we report an analysis of approximately 166,000 single nucleotide polymorphisms in populations from eastern (northeastern) Europe: four Russian populations from European Russia, and three populations from the northernmost Finno-Ugric ethnicities (Veps and two contrast groups of Komi people). These were compared with several reference European samples, including Finns, Estonians, Latvians, Poles, Czechs, Germans, and Italians. The results obtained demonstrated genetic heterogeneity of populations living in the region studied. Russians from the central part of European Russia (Tver, Murom, and Kursk) exhibited similarities with populations from central–eastern Europe, and were distant from Russian sample from the northern Russia (Mezen district, Archangelsk region). Komi samples, especially Izhemski Komi, were significantly different from all other populations studied. These can be considered as a second pole of genetic diversity in northern Europe (in addition to the pole, occupied by Finns), as they had a distinct ancestry component. Russians from Mezen and the Finnic-speaking Veps were positioned between the two poles, but differed from each other in the proportions of Komi and Finnic ancestries. In general, our data provides a more complete genetic map of Europe accounting for the diversity in its most eastern (northeastern) populations. "


Now what I don't understand why is it so hard to just find one DNA study of Komi in genetic paper? even the study you posted contained only Y-DNA and mtDNA data of Khanty and Mansi

[Argang]

even the study you posted contained only Y-DNA and mtDNA data of Khanty and Mansi

Again with the lies (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/fig_tab/ejhg2008101f1.html#figure-title), you're breaking my balls man. What do they teach kids in Liverpool?

That study you just posted deals with only autosomal DNA though. Also invitation to count Q's in FTdna is open for everyone.

[ButlerKing]

Again with the lies (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/fig_tab/ejhg2008101f1.html#figure-title), you're breaking my balls man. What do they teach kids in Liverpool?

That study you just posted deals with only autosomal DNA though. Also invitation to count Q's in FTdna is open for everyone.

What lies? the graph they made doesn't tell you their Y-DNA distribution. I don't understand the point of this? they made a copy of a original study but with more complicated graphs. Only Khanty and Mansi have Y-DNA distribution in their own table all other ethnic don't.


http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n10/images/ejhg2008101f1.jpg



BTW.......

Show me this 2.7% haplogroup Q swedes. If not a liar like you say you are? don't tell me you afraid that they only found one Q in swedes out of 30 Swedes where as other studies shows them being 0% Q :cool:

[Argang]

the graph they made doesn't tell you their Y-DNA distribution.


You're doing it again. It's fortunate for you that lying is not a bannable offence here:thumb001: They even specify below the graph what haplogroups are included in East Eurasian (Q is, and Kets show high East Eurasian, surprise surprise). Komi have only N and West Eurasian.

As for Swedish haplogroup Q men, same advice as with Norway - you and anyone who wants to look can find them in Sweden Ftdna project. 3,1% of the 553 samples on the map in fact. But you'll have to do the work, I'm busy fact-checking scousers.

[ButlerKing]

How stupid.


How does one know what the other haplogroups are. They only N3, N2.

Forget percentages. Why don't they at least distribute it like this?

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/WorldHaplogroupsMaps/BashkirsMT_DNA.gif

[ButlerKing]

You're doing it again. It's fortunate for you that lying is not a bannable offence here:thumb001: They even specify below the graph what haplogroups are included in East Eurasian (Q is, and Kets show high East Eurasian, surprise surprise). Komi have only N and West Eurasian.

As for Swedish haplogroup Q men, same advice as with Norway - you and anyone who wants to look can find them in Sweden Ftdna project. 3,1% of the 553 samples on the map in fact. But you'll have to do the work, I'm busy fact-checking scousers.

Yes they did.............only problem is they didn't distribute the haplogroup properly to their ethnicies. :picard2: which is why I think the chart is pointless. How does one know if their high East Eurasian is C3, Q or N?

Post a link please :rolleyes: Filthy dirty liar

[Argang]

More for the audience than to the disintegrating Pinocchio here, as you can see the Komi in that map are actually specified to be fully N and West Eurasian, and they also explain East Eurasian includes Q, as shown by the distribution of mainly Q Kets on the map.

[ButlerKing]

Those studies are over a decade old and have a small sample size. It's now well established that there is noticeable Q in Scandinavia and certain areas in Southern France.

OTOH it hasn't been found in populations like Komi.


I tried my best to prove you wrong :(


Alright I give up but I didn't I lied. I did see Komi with 5% haplogroup Q. Why would I lie about it?

I'm telling you Komi samples don't exist on the Internet anyone. If you don't believe me than go look for it. I've looked everywhere and still couldn't find one study man.


I only found this however 15% of the haplogroup DNA not included
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/KomiY_DNA.gif



-----------

Let prove to you why I didn't lie though.


The only study that proves Komi have 0% Q is in Europedia

However even in your europedia study Tatars have only 2% Q but in other studies Tatars have 16% Q. This shows that there is more studies than you should trust from Europedia. Do you have any other study that proves Komi have 0% Q other than Europedia?
..

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml


http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/KazanTatarsY_DNA.gif

[ButlerKing]

More for the audience than to the disintegrating Pinocchio here, as you can see the Komi in that map are actually specified to be fully N and West Eurasian.

Are you kidding me. I though you were smarter than this.

Tell me what is the point of showing only haplogroup N2 and N3


What about Q, C3 together? how do we seperate them ect how does one know those distribution when they are in the same color section? where are their percentages?

[ButlerKing]

Argang


Still waiting for the link to the swede study

[Harkonnen]

Butty my boy, you don't need your calculus. No Q found among Komi

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/tileshop_pmc_inline.html?title=Click%20on%20image% 20to%20zoom&p=PMC3&id=2986641_ejhg20096f1.jpg

There was though one (1) Q dude found among 27 Khanty samples, so if you want to know the percentage you may wanna dug up your loyal buddy from Tokio (I've a hunch your Casio-man)

[Anglojew]

There are many types of Pamiri the Shughni–Yazgulami branch, Munji–Yidgha, Sanglechi and Ishkashmi.

I seriously doubt all these Pamiri group have the same Y-DNA.

There language (along with Pashtun) are the surviving East Iranic branch (like Scythian) of the IE family. So I think they're very related to Scyths.

[ButlerKing]

Butty my boy, you don't need your calculus. No Q found among Komi

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/tileshop_pmc_inline.html?title=Click%20on%20image% 20to%20zoom&p=PMC3&id=2986641_ejhg20096f1.jpg

There was though one (1) Q dude found among 27 Khanty samples, so if you want to know the percentage you may wanna dug up your loyal buddy from Tokio (I've a hunch your Casio-man)

:rolleyes:


You think you know so much.

They only sampled Komi I (Izhemski) Komi P (Priluzski) and that study showed Nenets have 3.7% Q which is higher than the previous Nenet with 1.4% so where is the surprise they can have (3.3%+) 7% Q ????? I'll educate your wannabe smart-ass after.

Structure and phylogeography of the gene pool of the indigenous population of Siberia on the Y-chromosome markers
VN Kharkiv



Komi Priluzski KOP Mirabal 2009

Total n 49

N1c1 50%
R1a1 33%
N1b 14% 7 most haplotypes appear as N1b-A1
R1b 2%


Total n 94

Komi Tambets 2004 [16]

R1a 33 %
N1c 22,3%
R1b 16%
N1b 12,8%
J2 9,5%
I 5,3%
Q 1%

Total n 39

R1a1 - 31%
R1a1a7 - 28%
N1c1 - 26%
I1a - 9%
N1b - 7,7%
J2 - 2,6%
R1b1b1 - 2,6%
R1b1b2 - 2,6%


Komi Rootsi 2004

total n 110

N1c 38,1%
R1a 22,7%
R1a1a7 10%
R1b 8,1%
J1 7,5%
Q 4,5%
I1a 3,6%
J2a 2,7%
R1b1b1 1,8%
I1b 0,9%

Komi YNAO Karafet 2002 Rootsi 2007

Total n 28

N1c 50%
N1b 35,7% certain haplotypes appear as N1b-E
R1a 7,1%
I 7,1%


--------------------------

(How about some education? )

Let me just say Komis are much more diverse than you think. They have dialect and subdialect groups all of them genetically distinct to a certain extend

Komi-Izhemtsy
Komi-Permyaks
Komi-Yazvas
Komi-Kama

. They mostly live in the Komi Republic, Perm Krai, Murmansk Oblast, Khanty–Mansi Autonomous Okrug, and Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug in the Russian Federation

MAPS OF THE KOMI REPUBLIC

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Nenetsia_map.png


LOOK AT WHERE IS THE SAMOYEDIC SPEAKER ( selkup 66% Q and Ket 97% Q ) is with the Uralic Nenets, Komi, Khanty

I can't find any study for Nenets currently but there is one with 7% Q.

Where is the surprise though? you just proved to me there is 3.7% Q so it wouldnt surprise they have (3.3%+ more) 7%. Afterall they are closer to the selkup and Kets


Genetic exchanges shouldn't be a surprise considering their geography and culture :picard2: Where is the surprise and doubt? it's commonsense there should be Q
http://wiki.verbix.com/uploads/Languages/Uralic.gif

[ButlerKing]

It seems haplogroup Q in Europe is much less common than you though. Many keep saying 5% haplogroup Q in Ukraine and 4% in Norway think again in other study that frequency is only 1.1% Q in ukraine and in norway it's 0% and 0.5%

E1b1b1a2 among 7.6%
E1b1b1c among 1.1%
G2a* among 3.3%
H1a among 1.1%
I1* among 1.1%
I1b* among 1.1%
J2a1b* among 1.1%
J2a1b1 among 1.1%
J2a1k among 1.1%
J2b* among 1.1%
J2b2 among 2.2%
N1 among 6.5%
Q among 1.1%
R1a1* among 50% - their most prevalent haplogroup
R1b1b2 among 2.2%
T among 1.1%

Why is it so rare in Europe? because it is not of of european origin obviously Haplogroup Q is only found in very isolated cases. this is the problem with some people...... just because they read one or two study and think that a sample from some region represent 95% of the population from other regions.

[ButlerKing]

There language (along with Pashtun) are the surviving East Iranic branch (like Scythian) of the IE family. So I think they're very related to Scyths.

That is what I think too they are linguistically descendants of Scythian. Genetically I think they are primary descendants of Scythians but mixed heavily to some extend with some group being purer.

[Trun]

There language (along with Pashtun) are the surviving East Iranic branch (like Scythian) of the IE family.

Ossetian as well.

[Argang]

Komi Tambets 2004 [16]

R1a 33 %
N1c 22,3%
R1b 16%
N1b 12,8%
J2 9,5%
I 5,3%
Q 1%

Komi Rootsi 2004

total n 110

N1c 38,1%
R1a 22,7%
R1a1a7 10%
R1b 8,1%
J1 7,5%
Q 4,5%
I1a 3,6%
J2a 2,7%
R1b1b1 1,8%
I1b 0,9%

Well well, looks like our little scouser has been making things up again. :clap:

The Tambets study has, in fact, no 9,5% frequency for J2 and 1% Q, ButlerKing posted numbers he made up.

Same for Rootsi 2004 study, it does not really have the numbers (4,5% Q for Komi) ButlerKing posted. He made up a lot of other stats in it too, including the idea that it measured R1a1a7 which was not even discovered until years after (http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2009/11/r1a1a7-signal-of-slavic-expansions-from.html) 2004!

Lesson learned folks: bullshitting convincingly requires intelligence and effort.

Free speech and all, but jokesters like ButlerKing contribute little more than hilarity to genetics section. Avoid taking them seriously.

[ButlerKing]

Well well, looks like our little scouser has been making things up again. :clap:

The Tambets study has, in fact, no 9,5% frequency for J2 and 1% Q, ButlerKing posted numbers he made up.

Same for Rootsi 2004 study, it does not really have the numbers (4,5% Q for Komi) ButlerKing posted. He made up a lot of other stats in it too, including the idea that it measured R1a1a7 which was not even discovered until years after (http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2009/11/r1a1a7-signal-of-slavic-expansions-from.html) 2004!

Lesson learned folks: bullshitting convincingly requires intelligence and effort.

Free speech and all, but jokesters like ButlerKing contribute little more than hilarity to genetics section. Avoid taking them seriously.

Nice blog you have........... what does your polish gene blog proof?
I can't even find the word Komi in that blog of yours:rolleyes:

So what if they they didn't discovered since 2004? and for info that blog of yours is in 2009. Maybe they reclassified the haplogroup data?

This was posted in 2011
http://www.nahraj-obrazek.cz/?di=613957466183


Let me just say: Argang is unable to provide the data he claimed

[ButlerKing]

NORWEGIAN DATA YO............:(


Where is it..........................?


Lessons learn folks: Those who accuse others always get accused in the end.

Argan claimed 553 swedish samples with Swedes having 3.7% Q , he told me to go find myself but I can't find it anywhere and I searched everywhere.........so much for bullshitting

[ButlerKing]

This guy Argang that accuses me can't even meet my demands first.


He says Q 3.7 in Norwegian is established. Show me the damn data first



Stop evading my requests, you couldn't even show it to me

[Argang]

I'm not Davidski, so can't take credit for his nice blog. ;) For those interested it contains a link to the study that introduced R1a1a7, in 2009. Those Y-DNA percentages ButlerKing's picture has are false as well. Like ButlerKing, they also say Rootsi 2004 measured R1a1a7, which was not even found until years later, and that it found 4,5% Q in Komi, which is not true as anyone who reads the original Rootsi study can see. It also says Tambets 2004 found 9,5% J2 in Komi and Q in Komi while the actual study says nothing about either in them. For example, this is the Tambets 2004 study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/.

It has 94 Komi measured as ButlerKing and his site claim (table 3). However, there is 0% Q which puts an end to BK's nonsense.


Confirmation for what I said about R1a1a7 measurements straight from a Journal of Genetic Genealogy article.
(http://www.jogg.info/52/files/Gwozdz2.pdf)

A new SNP, M458, was recently announced by Underhill
et. al. (2009) that splits R1a-M17. The corresponding
STR data from the Underhill study is available. The
Polish Project P type and N type match well to the M458
clade, dubbed R1a1a7.

So it doesn't matter whether BK writes the lies himself or posts an image from another site with the same nonsense, Rootsi 2004 study does not really say they found 4,5% Q or R1a1a7 in Komi, and no 2004 study could even have searched for R1a1a7 from them.

And if anyone's interested about the Swedish and Norwegian Q numbers, my instructions stand. Go to FTDNA's projects for Sweden and Norway, count the Y-haplo Q's and divide by the number of total Y-haplos in the project to get the percentages. It's too complicated for inane trolls (as you've seen by now there's a reason for why ButlerKing has no business in ABF), but not for anyone else.

[ButlerKing]

I'm not Davidski, so can't take credit for his nice blog. ;) For those interested it contains a link to the study that introduced R1a1a7, in 2009. Those Y-DNA percentages ButlerKing's picture has are false as well. Like ButlerKing, they also say Rootsi 2004 measured R1a1a7, which was not even found until years later, and that it found 4,5% Q in Komi, which is not true as anyone who reads the original Rootsi study can see. It also says Tambets 2004 found 9,5% J2 in Komi and Q in Komi while the actual study says nothing about either in them. For example, this is the Tambets 2004 study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/.

It has 94 Komi measured as ButlerKing and his site claim (table 3). However, there is 0% Q which puts an end to BK's nonsense.


Confirmation for what I said about R1a1a7 measurements straight from a Journal of Genetic Genealogy article.
(http://www.jogg.info/52/files/Gwozdz2.pdf)


So it doesn't matter whether BK writes the lies himself or posts an image from another site with the same nonsense, Rootsi 2004 study does not really say they found 4,5% Q or R1a1a7 in Komi, and no 2004 study could even have searched for R1a1a7 from them.

And if anyone's interested about the Swedish and Norwegian Q numbers, my instructions stand. Go to FTDNA's project, count the Y-haplo Q's and divide by the number of total Y-haplos in the project. It's too complicated for inane trolls (as you've seen by now there's a reason for why ButlerKing has no business in ABF), but not for anyone else.


Here is the original study for Komi Rootsi 2004:jump0000:


Komi Rootsi 2004

Total 110

Other 95,5 %
I1a 3,6 %
I1b 0,9 %


Lol what is the point of a study when 95,5% is unclassfied

[Argang]

Here is the original study for Komi Rootsi 2004:jump0000:


Komi Rootsi 2004

Total 110

Other 95,5 %
I1a 3,6 %
I1b 0,9 %


Lol what is the point of a study when 95,5% is unclassfied

Focus, the clue's in the name lad.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/33dinw5.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Focus, the clue's in the name lad.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/33dinw5.jpg


Lol those old study had never been 100% accurate because they leave out too many percentages

Komi Tambets 2004

Total 94

R1a 33 %
N1c 22,3 %
R1b 16 %
N1b 12,8 %
Other 10,6 %
I 5,3 %

[Argang]

Lol those old study had never been 100% accurate because they leave out too many percentages

Komi Tambets 2004

Total 94

R1a 33 %
N1c 22,3 %
R1b 16 %
N1b 12,8 %
Other 10,6 %
I 5,3 %

The study tested for Q and C so the "Other" is something else. Certainly not R1a1a7 though.

[ButlerKing]

The study tested for Q and C so the "Other" is something else. Certainly not R1a1a7 though.

Where is the proof they didn't tested Q or C. Besides samples can be reclassified with the same individuals

[Argang]

Where is the proof they didn't tested Q or C. Besides samples can be reclassified with the same individuals

In the Tambets study which I linked.

Q's the column that's 93,7% in Kets.
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2uiyq6c.jpg

[ButlerKing]

In the Tambets study which I linked.

Q's the column that's 93,7% in Kets.
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2uiyq6c.jpg

The 94 samples is the same study that didn't contained 10.6% so I doubt they tested


For example the same gay study by unreliable scientist showed Chuvash had 0% J1 and J2 turned out they 24%

Tambets et al.(2004) и Rootsi et al.(2004)


I1(M253)=7.5%
I2b(M223)=2.5%
I2a(P37)=1.3%
R1b(M173?)=3.8%
R1a=31.6%
N3/N1c(TAT)=17.7%
N2/N1b(P43)=10.1%
C=1.3%
other=24.2% - ?


So what is 24.2%? they left out haplogroup J1 and J2 24.2 and later reclassified that haplogroup as such


Unreliable data

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/ChuvashY_DNA.gif


Komi is unrealible
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/KomiY_DNA.gif

[ButlerKing]

Well not totally unreliable but is 100% inaccurate

[Argang]

It is the same study. Count the Komi numbers and it adds to 89,4%. There is 10,6% unknown, but it can not be Q or C because those were tested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/table/TB3/

[ButlerKing]

It is the same study. Count the Komi numbers and it adds to 89,4%. There is 10,6% unknown, but it can not be Q or C because those were tested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/table/TB3/


Maybe the study was wrong due to some samples. Just like those errors they made about O2b being found in southeast Asia were later found to be errors

[Argang]

Maybe the study was wrong due to some samples. Just like those errors they made about O2b being found in southeast Asia were later found to be errors

It's been ten years since the study and nothing contradictory has surfaced. Perhaps it's best not to count on it happening either.

[ButlerKing]

It is the same study. Count the Komi numbers and it adds to 89,4%. There is 10,6% unknown, but it can not be Q or C because those were tested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/table/TB3/


BAD LIAR :( or maybe you and this Tambets have bad maths skills

5.3+16+33+23.3+12.8 = 90.4


Add 10.6% = 101% :laugh2:


All my other numbers adds up to 99.9%

[Argang]

BAD LIAR :( or maybe you and this Tambets have bad maths skills

5.3+16+33+23.3+12.8 = 90.4


Add 10.6% = 101% :laugh2:


Back to school, butler. Someone who thinks 22.3 is 23.3 has no business talking about bad math skills.

[ButlerKing]

It's been ten years since the study and nothing contradictory has surfaced. Perhaps it's best not to count on it happening either.

What's more reliable


a outdated study with 101%


or



Total n 94

Komi Tambets 2004 [16]

R1a 33 %
N1c 22,3%
R1b 16%
N1b 12,8%
J2 9,5%
I 5,3%
Q 1%

= 99.99%

Q 1% is actually 1.06% if you use percentage calculator this proves mine is correct

[Argang]

What's more reliable


a outdated study with 101%


or



Total n 94

Komi Tambets 2004 [16]

R1a 33 %
N1c 22,3%
R1b 16%
N1b 12,8%
J2 9,5%
I 5,3%
Q 1%

= 99.99%

Q 1% is actually 1.06% if you use percentage calculator this proves mine is correct

The "outdated" study is not outdated, the numbers add to 100% if you don't read 22.3 as 23.3, and your study does not exist.

[ButlerKing]

Back to school, butler. Someone who thinks 22.3 is 23.3 has no business talking about bad math skills.

True. Sorry about that.


Anyway look at my number though

R1a 33 %
N1c 22,3%
R1b 16%
N1b 12,8%
J2 9,5%
I 5,3%
Q 1%

= 99.9% THIS PROVES THIS STUDY IS ACCURATE

Q 1% is actually 1.06% (but they didn't made it 1.1%)

we are both right and wrong, let's leave it at that

[Argang]

If it actually was the Tambets study.;)

But let the reader be the judge.

[ButlerKing]

If it actually was the Tambets study.;)

But let the reader be the judge.


Kets is actually 99.9% same as the reclassified Tambet study of mine.

The numbers already proved is almost 100% where is the doubt?


Don't believe me than go ahead?