If Iran becomes different independent states

[StonyArabia]

http://s14.postimg.org/jozu0cpo1/Bernard_Lewis_Plan_2011.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Very interesting map, though I doubt this happen. Since the only groups that do want independence are the Ahwazi and Arab islanders, the Kurds, and the Baloch. As for the other groups they see more or less pro-Iranian in regards to many Azeris, and the Qashakis are quite Persianized themselves. I do believe it would be nice if they give autonomy for the Arab islanders or have them have a referendum if they want to be with Iran or join the UAE. The Ahwazis should get autonomy, since their independence although preferred might change things in this region.

[Graine]

There is no ''arabistan''. Half of Khuzestan is LURS bakhtiari, not arab

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Khuzistan_languages.jpg

[Hanibalas Lekteris]

Not happening.

[StonyArabia]

There is no ''arabistan''. Half of Khuzestan is LURS bakhtiari, not arab

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Khuzistan_languages.jpg

This completely wrong it's well known when the Arabistan Emirate was annexed in 1925, it was Persianized by bringing in Persian/Iranic people in the region. A process that continues to this day. This also true of the Arab islands which Iran annexed in 1971, but in the islands most of the Persian migration began in the 1990's.

[Anglojew]

Very interesting. Should happen.

[Graine]

This completely wrong it's well known when the Arabistan Emirate was annexed in 1925, it was Persianized by bringing in Persian/Iranic people in the region. A process that continues to this day. This also true of the Arab islands which Iran annexed in 1971, but in the islands most of the Persian migration began in the 1990's.Only the western part of Khuzestan was known as ''Arabistan'' emirate. The eastern part of Khuzestan has always been Bakhtiari Lurs and was governed by Bakhtiari Lurs khans.


In the two decades before 1925, although nominally part of Persian territory, the western part of Khuzestan functioned for many years effectively as an autonomous emirate known as "Arabistan". The eastern part of Khuzestan was governed by Bakhtiari-Lurs khans.

Bakhtiari Lurs aren't Persians. The eastern part of Khuzestan (former ''Arabistan'') was Persianized by Persian immigrants from different parts of Iran. The eastern part of Khuzestan has always been Bakhtiari Lurs. Only the western part of Khuzestan was ''Arabistan'' emirate.

[DeaththeKid]

The reason Iran is together is because of geography it conforms almost perfectly to the Iranian plateau

[StonyArabia]

Only the western part of Khuzestan was known as ''Arabistan'' emirate. The eastern part of Khuzestan has always been Bakhtiari Lurs and was governed by Bakhtiari Lurs khans.

Any proof or historical record of this, prior to 1925



Bakhtiari Lurs aren't Persians. The eastern part of Khuzestan (former ''Arabistan'') was Persianized by Persian immigrants from different parts of Iran. The eastern part of Khuzestan has always been Bakhtiari Lurs. Only the western part of Khuzestan was ''Arabistan'' emirate.

Well this could be true, in the regards to Ahwaz/Arabistan, but this is certainly not true to the Arab islands, which have always been Arabian since always.

[StonyArabia]

Very interesting. Should happen.

I would like the islands to be in Arab hands, the Iranians never belonged to these islands, but they took them in 1971. They have tried ever since to assimilate the Arab islanders who are of Bedouin stock and are Sunni Muslims, but it has so far not worked. They also banned the traditional dresses and forced them into Westernized clothing and to be part of a Persian cultural element, this did not work out to well. At times there is ethnic tensions between the native Arabs and the Persian migrants. As for Ahwaz I think they should get autonomy, and if they want independence they should. I believe other ethnic groups should especially the Baloch.

[Anglojew]

I would like the islands to be in Arab hands, the Iranians never belonged to these islands, but they took them in 1971. They have tried ever since to assimilate the Arab islanders who are of Bedouin stock and are Sunni Muslims, but it has so far not worked. They also banned the traditional dresses and forced them into Westernized clothing and to be part of a Persian cultural element, this did not work out to well. At times there is ethnic tensions between the native Arabs and the Persian migrants. As for Ahwaz I think they should get autonomy, and if they want independence they should. I believe other ethnic groups should especially the Baloch.

Do Shia Arabs generally like Persians?

[StonyArabia]

Do Shia Arabs generally like Persians?

This question can be answered by the simple No but it's complex. Shia Arabs want to disconnect from the Persians and Iran in general. This especially true of many Iraqi Shias and Ahwazi Arabs. In the case of the Iraqis they see Shia Iran to have undermine their Arabiness, well the Ahwazi Arabs see the Persians as occupiers, even if they are Shias, but many are shifting to Sunnism as form of protest. Shia Arabs have quite different view of the Iranian regime, and how it applies Shiaism, they see it to be wrong or altered, but the exception are the Lebanese Shias who have always had a connection to Iran, in fact they acted as missionaries for Shiaism. Shiaism itself is an Arab byproduct that originated in Yemen, developed in Iraq, it spread to the Levant and then was reduced by the Seljuk Turks who favored Sunnism, into minority in Southern Lebanon. Bedouin tribes in Iraq shifted to Shiaism only in the last century most due to being settled, and since it has more "Arabian' character than Sunnism which was favored by the nomadic tribes in Iraq.

[portusaus]

Only Kurdistan and maybe Belochistan should become independent.

[StonyArabia]

Only Kurdistan and maybe Belochistan should become independent.

I think the Arab regions should leave to be honest, the Kurds probably will they have always wanted to be rejoined with their fellow Kurds, and the Baloch should indeed have their own nation, as they have different culture, religion/sect, and they were independent at one time. The Arab islands should secede or have like I have said in my OP they do vote if they want to go with the UAE, and Ahwaz should have autonomy if things change if not maybe full independence, but full independence will alter the region, so autonomy is preferable from geopolitical standpoint.

[Anglojew]

This question can be answered by the simple No but it's complex. Shia Arabs want to disconnect from the Persians and Iran in general. This especially true of many Iraqi Shias and Ahwazi Arabs. In the case of the Iraqis they see Shia Iran to have undermine their Arabiness, well the Ahwazi Arabs see the Persians as occupiers, even if they are Shias, but many are shifting to Sunnism as form of protest. Shia Arabs have quite different view of the Iranian regime, and how it applies Shiaism, they see it to be wrong or altered, but the exception are the Lebanese Shias who have always had a connection to Iran, in fact they acted as missionaries for Shiaism. Shiaism itself is an Arab byproduct that originated in Yemen, developed in Iraq, it spread to the Levant and then was reduced by the Seljuk Turks who favored Sunnism, into minority in Southern Lebanon. Bedouin tribes in Iraq shifted to Shiaism only in the last century most due to being settled, and since it has more "Arabian' character than Sunnism which was favored by the nomadic tribes in Iraq.

Why do they relatively easily shift between each?

[StonyArabia]

Why do they relatively easily shift between each?

They don't but it has to do with nationalistic aspiration. The Sunni shift to Shiaism and vice versa occurs only among the Arabs from what I have noticed and it has to do with the lifestyle, theologically speaking the difference is quite minor, since they are rooted in very much the same way. Also the Shia Arabs who are becoming Sunni is to do with protest and to be connected with other Arabs.

[Graine]

Any proof or historical record of this, prior to 1925


Yeah.


The Governor-General had only a few local town police and some thirty to forty cavalries, recruited from Lor tribes near to Shushtar. He commanded no real authority even in the suburb districts, which resided by the Lors, Bakhtiyaris and Arab tribes. Albeit the rapid urbanisation became a feature of Khuzestan in the first decades of the 20th century, even after the war, the dominant feature of the province was still tribal, mostly nomads or semi-nomads. The Bakhtiyari Khans expanded their authority on eastern and north-east Khuzestan, in Rahmhormoz, Masjed Soleiman to the gate of Shushtar and Dezful. They did not pay attention to the governor-general and did not prepare to pay their taxes to the finance department (46).

page 60 http://www.diss.fu-berlin.de/diss/servlets/MCRFileNodeServlet/FUDISS_derivate_000000010151/Dr.Arbeit_Javad_Karandish.pdf;jsessionid=5F8D36674 F6C9DA8E95280119E78A5CD?hosts


The Sheikh of Mohammerah controlled the area at the head of the Persian Gulf, and the neo-Mongolian, Bakhtiari Khans, controlled the rest of Khuzistan; both the Sheikhs and Khans were nominally subject to the Tehran government, but in fact independent. http://books.google.com/books?id=K5OnWYLhQBAC&pg=PA49&dq

[Xenomorph]

Bring back the Sassanian Empire.

[StonyArabia]

Bring back the Sassanian Empire.

It returned during the Safavid empire. In fact the Safavid empire is often said to be the rebirth of the Persian empire. However it was weakened and resented by the Sunni Bedouin subjects who played a major which caused it's eventually decline and it fell to the Afghan Pashtun Hotaki dynasty. It's unrealistic for the Sassanian or any Persian empire to come in place, when many people in Iran want independence such as Ahwazi and Arab islanders, Kurds and Baloch.

[Graine]

Close genetic relationship between Semitic-speaking and Indo-European-speaking groups in Iran.

As part of a continuing investigation of the extent to which the genetic and linguistic relationships of populations are correlated, we analyzed mtDNA HV1 sequences, eleven Y chromosome bi-allelic markers, and 9 Y-STR loci in two neighboring groups from the southwest of Iran who speak languages belonging to different families: Indo-European-speaking Bakhtiari, and Semitic-speaking Arabs. Both mtDNA and the Y chromosome, showed a close relatedness of these groups with each other and with neighboring geographic groups, irrespective of the language spoken. Moreover, Semitic-speaking North African groups are more distant genetically from Semitic-speaking groups from the Near East and Iran. Thus, geographical proximity better explains genetic relatedness between populations than does linguistic relatedness in this part of the world.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18205892

[GrebluBro]

http://s14.postimg.org/jozu0cpo1/Bernard_Lewis_Plan_2011.jpg (http://postimage.org/)



I wish Iran will get bigger by grabbing Balochistan part of Pakistan (where Baloch people are very poor despite having rich land/resources)..
If Kurds can get independence from Turkey, then Iran should let of them..

Persians are number one in respectable progressive Muslims list in middle-east (minus Levant)..

Sticking with them only benefits all those minorities in Iran

[StonyArabia]

I wish Iran will get bigger by grabbing Balochistan part of Pakistan (where Baloch people are very poor despite having rich land/resources)..
If Kurds can get independence from Turkey, then Iran should let of them..

Persians are the only respectable progressive Muslim I see in middle-east (minus Levant)..

Sticking with them only benefits all those minorities in Iran

No Baluchistan should be independent, and so do the other minorities. You must be kidding yes forced to Persianize your names and identity and you are discriminated in your own islands or your own land and have to confirm to the larger society. There is reason why people want independence, but even autonomy is rejected.

[GrebluBro]

No Baluchistan should be independent, and so do the other minorities. You must be kidding yes forced to Persianize your names and identity and you are discriminated in your own islands or your own land and have to confirm to the larger society. There is reason why people want independence, but even autonomy is rejected.

Now I understand why you said I could pass in South Iran, cuz Baloch people kinda look Indian..

Is there any racism in Iran?

[StonyArabia]

Now I understand why you said I could pass in South Iran, cuz Baloch people kinda look Indian..

Is there any racism in Iran?

No, there is no racism as defined as the term understood, but there is certain discrimination based on sectarian affiliation, and ethnicity. This mostly due to assimilation policies. Basically they want to Persianize everyone in this region. However the Sistanis who do look like the Baloch and other Southern Iranians who are Shias and assimilated heavily into Persian culture are not discriminated at all, but some Shia Arabs say they are discriminated on the bases of ethnicity not sect, as they don't want to be assimilated. The Arab islanders are all Sunnis and found themselves under Iran in 1971 during the Shah's regime in which they were forced to assimilation in all forms but this never worked out and does often create tensions from time to time. This however lessened when the new regime took over but there still tensions. Racism is not really, cultural discrimination yes, which can be found to various degrees in the MENA.

[Xenomorph]

It returned during the Safavid empire. In fact the Safavid empire is often said to be the rebirth of the Persian empire. However it was weakened and resented by the Sunni Bedouin subjects who played a major which caused it's eventually decline and it fell to the Afghan Pashtun Hotaki dynasty. It's unrealistic for the Sassanian or any Persian empire to come in place, when many people in Iran want independence such as Ahwazi and Arab islanders, Kurds and Baloch.

You're right, though I'd kind of wish the old Zoroastrian political order came back (with tolerance for all religions in place). I think that the Safavids persecuted Zoroastrians and played an important role in teir decline in Iran.

The borders for Arabistan don't look too viable; they remind me alot of the union of Pakistan and Bangladesh/East Pakistan, and we all know how that turned out.

[TheForeigner]

Arabs moved there on ancient iranian territory and are johnny come latelys basically. You don't become master of a house in which you are invited as guest. When did arabs even moved there and I never heard arabs annexing islands from an arab state during 70s? Are you sure about that?

[StonyArabia]

Arabs moved there on ancient iranian territory and are johnny come latelys basically. You don't become master of a house in which you are invited as guest. When did arabs even moved there and I never heard arabs annexing islands from an arab state during 70s? Are you sure about that?

Arabs have long lived in that region actually. But there is two Arab groups Shia Arabs in Ahwaz and Sunni Arabs on the islands. Sunni Arab islanders were never part of Iran, until their islands was annexed in 1971. Well Ahwazi Arabs were independent somewhat but had their area annexed in 1925. In fact the Arab presence in Ahwaz pre-date Islamic times, never mind the islands which have always been Arab until know. The problem the islands were not tightly administered by the UAE and it's believed the British made it possible for Iran to annex them. The people there are Sunni Arabs and have no relationship to Iran historically, culturally or racially.

[Yaroslav]

Nabatea stop using Arab and Bedouin as synonyms. Bedouins are a very, very small minority of Arabs who mostly live in the Levant and Egypt. They're like Hutsuls in Ukraine. Caling most Ukrainians Hutsuls is ignorant.

[TheForeigner]

But Khuzestan was always part of Iran and has mixed population, even though arabs are majority in most of it, except for eastern and northeastern areas of bakhtiari lurs iranian tribesmen and there are persians in towns.

[Peyrol]

There is no ''arabistan''. Half of Khuzestan is LURS bakhtiari, not arab

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Khuzistan_languages.jpg

Is this a common surname in Iran? A cousin of mine married an iranian man with this surname.

[TheForeigner]

Lol you must like iranians more than north africans!

[N1019]

This plan probably is going ahead, but it is about the entire Middle East, not just Iran, in the biggest shake-up since Sykes-Picot. It is starting with the destruction and division of Iraq along sectarian lines by ISIS/Daesh and Kurds; Iran is also being drawn into the conflict to help the Shia Arab population and the Iraqi government it has deeply infiltrated; the Iraqi divisions naturally spill over into Iran. The existing sectarian lines are of little relevance when a bunch of terrorists are willing to engage in ethnic cleansing to redraw those lines, along with national borders.

Whether this will be fully implemented is another matter, but the foundations are definitely being laid, slowly but surely, from outside Iran's present borders, and from within as shown below. Note that the oil-rich regions of Iran are probably the main targets. I'm sure BP etc. would like to get their hands back on what they lost in 1979.

Iran is gradually being bled dry by several factors, including:

- economic sanctions, stagflation in economy

- oil price crash to way below what Iran needs to sustain its budget over time - current price about $50/barrel, most analysts estimate Iran needs about $130, which is unlikely to happen anytime soon

- isolation from US/Saudi/Qatar etc. controlled energy projects, e.g. gas pipelines; locking Iran out of the European gas market where possible; these projects are vital sources of income for Iran

- sabotage of plans for new energy projects not controlled by the US and its allies (invasion of Syria and Iraq by ISIS prevents Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline, threats of sanctions and Baluchi uprisings for Pakistan if it agrees to complete Iran-Pakistan pipeline, etc.); links to Iran have apparently been excluded from the Nabucco project

- destruction of Iran's main ally in the region; the severing of the Shia crescent of Iranian influence running from Iraq to Syria, Lebanon; this is being achieved by ISIS in the west of Iraq and Syria

- oil production decline, partly due to unfavourable terms offered to foreign oil companies wishing to invest in Iran

- Iran's contribution to the conflict in Iraq and Syria is costly; in Iraq, it could be helping to accelerate the process

These factors are softening up Iran in preparation for a possible future attack.


As an aside, plenty of people have predicted that the fall of Iran could lead to world war III, but I have my doubts about that. Russia is also gradually being weakened by sanctions and the low oil price. If this situation continues, Russia's ability to intervene could be affected.


It might not taste good, but it's food for thought...

[Ivan Kramskoï]

I read on a persian nationalist forum that the governments wants persians to mix with azeris and other minorities.
Is that true ??

[Petros Houhoulis]

It seems to me that Iran shall absorb the Shia Iraq, together with its' oil...

[N1019]

It seems to me that Iran shall absorb the Shia Iraq, together with its' oil...

Sure, the US and allies are simply going to hand the oil wealth of Iraq over to Iran, lift sanctions so they can sell it easily, get rich and live happily ever after.

That ain't gonna happen...

[Leto]

I read on a persian nationalist forum that the governments wants persians to mix with azeris and other minorities.
Is that true ??
You know, Iran didn't have ethnic nationalism until recently. Those ethnic groups spoke different languages, but they were all Shia Muslims and shared the same culture. That's what an Azerbaijani/Turkish nationalist told me.
Nowadays, Iran is Islamist and it discourages any ethnic divisions. They are almost like France. In France everyone is officially French. In Iran everyone is just Iranian.

[Instinct]

It seems to me that Iran shall absorb the Shia Iraq, together with its' oil...

Indeed.

[N1019]

Iran didn't have ethnic nationalism until recently........Nowadays, Iran is Islamist and it discourages any ethnic divisions.

Because they know where ethnic divisions can lead - stir in a few political parties/independence movements and possibly some terrorists or "freedom fighters" (maybe sponsored by foreign powers) and voila, you have sectarian strife that can tear a nation apart.

Direct conflict might be a long way off, but I'm sure they are concerned about "ethnic nationalism" in Iran.

[StonyArabia]

It seems to me that Iran shall absorb the Shia Iraq, together with its' oil...

Not really if they do, they will get a headache. Shia Arab not pro-Persian and are even hostile to them. Your underestimating Arab-Persian rivalries. Al-Sadr is not pro-Iranian for example. Arab Shia Ahwazis are wanting independence yeah they will absorb Shia Iraq, they won't.

[Instinct]

Not really if they do, they will get a headache. Shia Arab not pro-Persian and are even hostile to them. Your underestimating Arab-Persian rivalries. Al-Sadr is not pro-Iranian for example. Arab Shia Ahwazis are wanting independence yeah they will absorb Shia Iraq, they won't.

Well, all the radical terrorist organisations are created by Sunni Arabs and these sunni arabs who makes terror in the middle east kill shia, christian, ezidi, everyone who is not sunni muslim. Iran must be there to fight against Barbaric Radical Sunni Terrorism in the middle east and all over the world.

[StonyArabia]

Well, all the radical terrorist organisations are created by Sunni Arabs and these sunni arabs who makes terror in the middle east kill shia, christian, ezidi, everyone who is not sunni muslim. Iran must be there to fight against Barbaric Radical Sunni Terrorism in the middle east and all over the world.

You just hate Sunnis and Arabs, but the fact of the matter there are radical Shia terrorist who attack Christian, Sunnis, Mandeans, I can give you their names. This not even the point here. Shia Arabs don't like Persians, nor Persians like them. I know how Shia Arabs think and behave. Not mention Shia Arabs want to break away from Iran and forming their own state, since as Arabs their rights are not recognized.

[Instinct]

You just hate Sunnis and Arabs, but the fact of the matter there are radical Shia terrorist who attack Christian, Sunnis, Mandeans, I can give you their names. This not even the point here. Shia Arabs don't like Persians, nor Persians like them. I know how Shia Arabs think and behave. Not mention Shia Arabs want to break away from Iran and forming their own state, since as Arabs their rights are not recognized.

What names? Send me a link that if a shia organisation killed christians, mandeans, etc.

[Loki]

http://s14.postimg.org/jozu0cpo1/Bernard_Lewis_Plan_2011.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Very interesting map, though I doubt this happen. Since the only groups that do want independence are the Ahwazi and Arab islanders, the Kurds, and the Baloch. As for the other groups they see more or less pro-Iranian in regards to many Azeris, and the Qashakis are quite Persianized themselves. I do believe it would be nice if they give autonomy for the Arab islanders or have them have a referendum if they want to be with Iran or join the UAE. The Ahwazis should get autonomy, since their independence although preferred might change things in this region.

Won't happen, only in Saudi princes' wet dreams.

[Instinct]

You just hate Sunnis and Arabs

I don't hate any religion, I hate fanatics.

[Proto-Shaman]

won't happen. Many Azers also consider themselves as the real Iranians.

[StonyArabia]

What names? Send me a link that if a shia organisation killed christians, mandeans, etc.

Bader brigades is one, and there is the Mahadi Army also another, there are small groups though also.

here is an example The armed insurgency and the forces collaborating with the occupation seem equally bent on exterminating perceived religious and ethnic enemies. In April 2004, the Badr Brigades of Shi'ite militant cleric Moqtada al-Sadr burned down the Roma ("Gypsy") village of Qawliya, accused of "un-Islamic" behavior—like music and dance. Last year, the usually pacifistic Sufis, followers of Islam's esoteric tradition, announced formation of a militia to defend against the Shi'ite supremacists in both opposition and collaboration. "We will not wait for the Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade to enter our houses," read the statement from the Qadiri Sufis. "We will fight the Americans and the Shi'ites who are against us." Suicide bombers have also struck Sufi tekiyas (gathering places).

[StonyArabia]

I don't hate any religion, I hate fanatics.

Yes that's good, well everyone should fanatic people as their not rational no matter what religion they are. They just bring backwardness.

[Instinct]

Bader brigades is one, and there is the Mahadi Army also another, there are small groups though also.

here is an example The armed insurgency and the forces collaborating with the occupation seem equally bent on exterminating perceived religious and ethnic enemies. In April 2004, the Badr Brigades of Shi'ite militant cleric Moqtada al-Sadr burned down the Roma ("Gypsy") village of Qawliya, accused of "un-Islamic" behavior—like music and dance. Last year, the usually pacifistic Sufis, followers of Islam's esoteric tradition, announced formation of a militia to defend against the Shi'ite supremacists in both opposition and collaboration. "We will not wait for the Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade to enter our houses," read the statement from the Qadiri Sufis. "We will fight the Americans and the Shi'ites who are against us." Suicide bombers have also struck Sufi tekiyas (gathering places).

you still didn't proof that if Shia Muslims massacred Christians, Ezidis, etc. Actually you know that Iran is the only place in the middle east where christians can live in peace.

[StonyArabia]

you still didn't proof that if Shia Muslims massacred Christians, Ezidis, etc. Actually you know that Iran is the only place in the middle east where christians can live in peace.

http://ww4report.com/node/4159 you can read here. Mandeans were often forced to be Shias, well Christian Arabs that live in the South they are different from Assyrians have moved into other places. I am not saying Shia Muslims are doing this, many Shias don't agree their just radical groups who do so, just like you have radical Sunni groups. This true that Iran has been tolerant to other religions, but it also discriminates in some ways, Sunnis especially are like the Balochi ethnic group.

As for Christians, they are living in peace in Jordan, UAE, and Oman. Jordan and UAE are both Sunni, well the latter is not, it's Ibadhi a very different sect from Sunni and Shia Islam.

[Mani]

http://ww4report.com/node/4159 you can read here. Mandeans were often forced to be Shias, well Christian Arabs that live in the South they are different from Assyrians have moved into other places. I am not saying Shia Muslims are doing this, many Shias don't agree their just radical groups who do so, just like you have radical Sunni groups. This true that Iran has been tolerant to other religions, but it also discriminates in some ways, Sunnis especially are like the Balochi ethnic group.




As for Christians, they are living in peace in Jordan, UAE, and Oman. Jordan and UAE are both Sunni, well the latter is not, it's Ibadhi a very different sect from Sunni and Shia Islam.

How about this brother: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/christians-displaced-support-by-najaf.html#

[Petros Houhoulis]

Sure, the US and allies are simply going to hand the oil wealth of Iraq over to Iran, lift sanctions so they can sell it easily, get rich and live happily ever after.

That ain't gonna happen...

The U.S. wish they could rule the world. They don't...

[Instinct]

http://ww4report.com/node/4159 you can read here. Mandeans were often forced to be Shias, well Christian Arabs that live in the South they are different from Assyrians have moved into other places. I am not saying Shia Muslims are doing this, many Shias don't agree their just radical groups who do so, just like you have radical Sunni groups. This true that Iran has been tolerant to other religions, but it also discriminates in some ways, Sunnis especially are like the Balochi ethnic group.

As for Christians, they are living in peace in Jordan, UAE, and Oman. Jordan and UAE are both Sunni, well the latter is not, it's Ibadhi a very different sect from Sunni and Shia Islam.

What about this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYS5TdUEtTM

[Petros Houhoulis]

Not really if they do, they will get a headache. Shia Arab not pro-Persian and are even hostile to them. Your underestimating Arab-Persian rivalries. Al-Sadr is not pro-Iranian for example. Arab Shia Ahwazis are wanting independence yeah they will absorb Shia Iraq, they won't.

It takes time...

[Instinct]

After Christians were forced to leave Mosul and other areas that fell under the control of the Islamic State (IS), Kurdish and Shiite dominated cities opened their doors to receive them. Religious authorities adopted stances supporting Christians, as they called on residents to host and help their brothers in the country.

The Imam Al-Khoei Foundation, one of the prominent religious institutions in Najaf, issued on July 30 a statement in support of Christians and minorities in Iraq. An excerpt of the statement reads, “We announce our readiness to receive the displaced Iraqi families, be they Christians or Muslims. We call on all Iraqis to offer aid for the displaced families and protect them from the aggressors, in accordance with the principles of humanitarian and national fraternity.”

Under the slogan, “We cooperate, work, unite, think, plan, and achieve to succeed,” the foundation announced its complete readiness to cooperate with all international, humanitarian and societal organizations, saying, “They [Christians] will come to find our hearts open before our arms.”

Jawad al-Khoei, the foundation’s director in Najaf, told Al-Monitor over the phone, “Christians are our homeland brothers, and our duty is to do all we can to protect them from extremists and terrorists. All of our cities and homes are open to receive them. There would be no religious limits or clampdown, had they wished to settle down in Najaf temporarily or permanently.”

Prominent religious guide Sayyed Hussein al-Sadr issued a statement dedicated to the displacement of Christians from Mosul, affirming their “national belonging to Iraq.”

“They are our brothers in the country and in humanity, and have equal rights with all Iraqis,” Sadr noted in the statement.

Karbala preacher and Sayyed Ali Sistani’s spokesman, Ahmed al-Safi, denounced in his last sermon the “recent attacks on Iraqi minorities,” saying, “Tens of thousands of Turkmens, Shabak, Christians and other minorities are now living under harsh circumstances due to displacement from their areas, after terrorists took over their cities in Ninevah and other regions. The efforts exerted to look after them and alleviate their suffering are still subpar.”

On Aug. 3, the Najaf provincial council announced “its complete readiness to receive displaced Christian families who have left their villages and homes in Mosul.” The council affirmed that “appropriate housing will be provided. Also, the Imam Ali Holy Shrine in Najaf and Imam Hussein Holy Shrine in Karbala are ready to host Christian families, and indeed competent committees are being formed in the two holy cities.”

Al-Monitor learned from an official of the Red Crescent that the province “has until now received more than 17,000 displaced, the majority of whom are sheltered in Hussainiyat [congregation halls for Shiite commemoration ceremonies], mosques, and other religious buildings. They are receiving support from humanitarian institutions affiliated [with] the Shiite authority, the Imam Ali Shrine and the people of Najaf.” Al-Monitor met with two displaced Christian families who affirmed that they were receiving services and aid, as other displaced are.

It is important to note that the two holy cities of Najaf and Karbala were dominant Christian centers for centuries, where the ruins of old churches are located, some of which date back to the second century. In fact, until mid-20th century, some Christian and Jewish families were still living in the two cities, without being subjected to any kind of persecution or discrimination.

The flow of Christians into the two cities, if it continues, and their potential settling there, will revive Iraqi plurality, which has been decaying in the last years.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/christians-displaced-support-by-najaf.html##ixzz3OetzdEKt

[StonyArabia]

What about this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYS5TdUEtTM

They are scum, most often people with mental issues, from broken homes, misfits, failures join this movement, so their scum. Certainly their not doing the work of God. These people only bring shame to most good people, and have made the religion look bad. Their minority. Many clerks have denounced them and their behavior. No one thinks of their behavior is condoned. Many have called them Kharwaj, as you know the Khawarj behaved in similar fashion, this why their sect did not survive. If anyone belongs in hell it's these people dude.

[Armenian Bishop]

Easier said than done, and it looks like a recipe for opening a pandora's box. A movement to splinter Iran into separate states could spark a war similar to the night mirror of the Iran Iraq War (1980-1988).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War

[StonyArabia]

This is a sign of hope, if more people are like this then this would be good, but if people from both sides are being radicals and hating each other, things will look bad. Btw they also took in Sunni refugees to.

[N1019]

The U.S. wish they could rule the world. They don't...

Luckily, we're only talking about Iran/Middle East here. The loss of important Iranian territory to new sectarian States is part of a plan that has been widely discussed for years. That plan seems to be in progress in Iraq and Syria. We know they are also helping the Kurds, and an independent Kurdistan is part of the plan for sectarian division.

Do you think the US and allies like Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc have nothing to do with what is happening in Iraq, Syria, ISIS, and so on?

Whether or not this sectarian division of the middle east spills into a weakened Iran is a good question, but it would seem to suit American energy interests for it to happen. With ISIS and others fighting for them, they barely have to put their own boots on the ground (for now). It's much cheaper and more politically acceptable than sending in the US Army. Hiding behind ISIS, they can even pretend they are the enemy by dropping a few bombs on them when they stray outside their intended theatres of operation... not that many people believe it. There is even speculation of a new alliance with Iran, which might sound great but is pure distraction from what is really happening... unless Iran suddenly decides to let Western Big Oil to take back control of its reserves.

I know there are people who don't want to believe this could happen, and that the US is too weak to carry on with this sort of conflict, but indications are that it is happening.

[Demhat]

http://s14.postimg.org/jozu0cpo1/Bernard_Lewis_Plan_2011.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Very interesting map, though I doubt this happen. Since the only groups that do want independence are the Ahwazi and Arab islanders, the Kurds, and the Baloch. As for the other groups they see more or less pro-Iranian in regards to many Azeris, and the Qashakis are quite Persianized themselves. I do believe it would be nice if they give autonomy for the Arab islanders or have them have a referendum if they want to be with Iran or join the UAE. The Ahwazis should get autonomy, since their independence although preferred might change things in this region.



Oh god which retard made this map? Qashgaistan in the heartland of Persians? "Southern Turkmenistan" in a region predominantly Kurdish? Mahabad republic (heartland of Iranian Kurdistan) as far as Gilan, Mazandaran, Talyshistan and even Teheran in Azerbaijan? This map is as accurate as a drunk dude using the toilet lol. Must have been some very "pan Turanic" dude.



This here is the real ethnic map of Iran. The Qashgai beeing drawn so large on the map can give the wrong impression that they make up a large portion of the province. But in reality it only shows the Summer and Winter residince of them, since they are nomadic people. And not to confuse Azeris with the original Azaris(Tatis/Talysj) who are an Iranic speaking people.

http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/Iran_Languages_lg.png

But as already said by other users, I have also heard Azeri nationalism is rather weak and most Azeris are more "Iranian nationalists" it seems. The only two ethnicities with strong nationalistic charecteristics and movements are The Kurds in Northwest and Balochi in Southeast. I don't know about the Arabs though.

[N1019]

Remember, the current sectarian lines don't have to match future ones because they can be changed. If a region comes to be ruled by a sectarian political movement or terrorists, population exchanges and ethnic cleansing often follows. Remaining minorities can be silenced and ignored.

This has happened in the middle east before, it's happening in Iraq now... it could happen again.

[StonyArabia]

Oh god which retard made this map? Qashgaistan in the heartland of Persians? "Southern Turkmenistan" in a region predominantly Kurdish? Mahabad republic (heartland of Iranian Kurdistan) as far as Gilan, Mazandaran, Talyshistan and even Teheran in Azerbaijan? This map is as accurate as a drunk dude using the toilet lol. Must have been some very "pan Turanic" dude.



This here is the real ethnic map of Iran. The Qashgai beeing drawn so large on the map can give the wrong impression that they make up a large portion of the province. But in reality it only shows the Summer and Winter residince of them, since they are half nomadic people. And not to confuse Azeris with Azaris(Tatis) who are an Iranic speaking people.

http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/Iran_Languages_lg.png

But as already said by other users, I have heard Azeri nationalism is rather weak and most Azeris are more "Iranian nationalists". The only two ethnicities with strong nationalistic charecteristics and movements are The Kurds in Northwest and Balochi in Southeast. I don't know about the Arabs though.

Arabs want independence especially in Ahwaz, Arab islanders want to join with the UAE, which still claim them. It's actually done by a man called Bernard Lewis who is an American historian and certainly not a retard, but any how. Baloch, Kurds, and Arabs should have the right to autonomy or independence. Most Ahwazi Arabs just want less interference on their cultural group, well Arab islanders want to be united with the UAE as they consider themselves to be of that stock.

[zarzian]

Oh god which retard made this map? Qashgaistan in the heartland of Persians? "Southern Turkmenistan" in a region predominantly Kurdish? Mahabad republic (heartland of Iranian Kurdistan) and even Teheran in Azerbaijan? This map is as accurate as a drunk dude using the toilet. Must have been some very "pan Turanic" dude.



This here is the real ethnic map of Iran. The Qashgai beeing drawn so large on the map can give the wrong impression that they make up a large portion of the province. But in reality it only shows the Summer and Winter residince of them, since they are half nomadic people.

http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/Iran_Languages_lg.png

But as already said, I have heard most Azeris are more "Iranian nationalists" than Persians. The only two ethnicities with nationalistic charecteristics are The Kurds in Northwest and Balochi in Southeast. I don't know about the Arabs though.

I wouldn't take anything nabatea sais seriously, in his head the Bedouin are the rulers of the world.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Luckily, we're only talking about Iran/Middle East here. The loss of important Iranian territory to new sectarian States is part of a plan that has been widely discussed for years. That plan seems to be in progress in Iraq and Syria. We know they are also helping the Kurds, and an independent Kurdistan is part of the plan for sectarian division.

Do you think the US and allies like Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc have nothing to do with what is happening in Iraq, Syria, ISIS, and so on?

Whether or not this sectarian division of the middle east spills into a weakened Iran is a good question, but it would seem to suit American energy interests for it to happen. With ISIS and others fighting for them, they barely have to put their own boots on the ground (for now). It's much cheaper and more politically acceptable than sending in the US Army. Hiding behind ISIS, they can even pretend they are the enemy by dropping a few bombs on them when they stray outside their intended theatres of operation... not that many people believe it. There is even speculation of a new alliance with Iran, which might sound great but is pure distraction from what is really happening... unless Iran suddenly decides to let Western Big Oil to take back control of its reserves.

I know there are people who don't want to believe this could happen, and that the US is too weak to carry on with this sort of conflict, but indications are that it is happening.

What Yankees and Sunnis want is not what Yankees and Sunnis can do...

[Böri]

Iran is much more diverse than Turkey but they are mulla bigots dictatorship with Persian racism and closed to world like North Korea. This is why no separatism. When you are democracy, this is good but this make weak. This is surprise there is also Kurds in north east, they are everywhere.

[TheForeigner]

I think Kurds originated in northern Iran.

[wvwvw]

If anything it should be Iran that should have territorial claims on all of its neighbours not the other way round. There are Iranian minorities in all nearby countries. Most Azeris consider themselves Persian or related to them, and even in the southermost province of Balochistan you see Iranian looking faces.

[wvwvw]

http://s14.postimg.org/jozu0cpo1/Bernard_Lewis_Plan_2011.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Very interesting map, though I doubt this happen. Since the only groups that do want independence are the Ahwazi and Arab islanders, the Kurds, and the Baloch. As for the other groups they see more or less pro-Iranian in regards to many Azeris, and the Qashakis are quite Persianized themselves. I do believe it would be nice if they give autonomy for the Arab islanders or have them have a referendum if they want to be with Iran or join the UAE. The Ahwazis should get autonomy, since their independence although preferred might change things in this region.

You are imagining Persianized people everywhere, failing to see that there also many Iranians who have been assimilated by neighbouring countries. The Iranian genetic impact on its neighbouring populations including Iraqis is far greater than the opposite.

[Böri]

If anything it should be Iran that should have territorial claims on all of its neighbours not the other way round. There are Iranian minorities in all nearby countries. Most Azeris consider themselves Persian or related to them, and even in the southermost province of Balochistan you see Iranian looking faces.

This isnt right this is what you wish I think. Azeris from Iran Persianized a bit but not in Azerbaijan. They are offended when you call them Azeris as they say they are Turks from Azerbaijan. They hate bein associate with Iran. 70 years of Soviet rule oppressing Shia religion there and today they are Seculars and dont allow Shia rise, Chechens and Dagestanis or Turks more religiously active than Shias there.

[Demhat]

Iran is much more diverse than Turkey but they are mulla bigots dictatorship with Persian racism and closed to world like North Korea. This is why no separatism. When you are democracy, this is good but this make weak. This is surprise there is also Kurds in north east, they are everywhere.

Why is it more of a surprise to find Kurds in North and Northeast Iran, a land originaly part of Parthia (their forefathers and descends of Medes) than let's say Turkmens?

[Hadouken]

Arabs want independence especially in Ahwaz, Arab islanders want to join with the UAE, which still claim them.

Arabs have 0 right for that

if they want they can go to Arabia

[StonyArabia]

Arabs have 0 right for that

if they want they can go to Arabia

The islands are Arabian originally part of the UAE they got them in 1971. Ahwaz was always the home of Shia Arabs, who had an independent emirate until 1925 and always felt closer to other Arabs.they just want autonomy but many want independence. What about the Baloch they want independence to?

[Böri]

Arabs have rights there like others. Shia religion isnt really universal religion like Sunni, Orthodox or Catholic. There is strong Persian nationalists elements with this religion. Kurds protected their identity as they are Sunni majority people despite also Iranic people, if Shia maybe today they dont exist. Iranian oppressive mulla regime get old, young generation more secular and hate their religion as they think this is reason why Iran backward country and not rich like UAE or so as Iran evil regime spend oil/gas money for start war and spread bigotry in Muslim world. So Iran dont have bright future imo. Kurds, Azeris, Arabs, Turkens, Balujs will take land and separation. Then Shia religion also free from Persian racists elements. I also see sometime Shia or Alevi Turks who praise Persians race and I think they ready to become Persians, this religion must get free from Fars racism

[StonyArabia]

Arabs have rights there like others. Shia religion isnt really universal religion like Sunni, Orthodox or Catholic. There is strong Persian nationalists elements with this religion. Kurds protected their identity as they are Sunni majority people despite also Iranic people, if Shia maybe today they dont exist. Iranian oppressive mulla regime get old, young generation more secular and hate their religion as they think this is reason why Iran backward country and not rich like UAE or so as Iran evil regime spend oil/gas money for start war and spread bigotry in Muslim world. So Iran dont have bright future imo. Kurds, Azeris, Arabs, Turkens, Balujs will take land and separation. Then Shia religion also free from Persian racists elements. I also see sometime Shia or Alevi Turks who praise Persians race and I think they ready to become Persians, this religion must get free from Fars racism

Shia Arabs don't identify with Persians aside from a small minority. There is rivalry between Shia Arabs and Persians, even their Shiaism differs. Originally the Arabs of these areas practiced the Muyshishia sect.

[Böri]

Shia Arabs don't identify with Persians aside from a small minority.

In Iraq maybe but this isnt sure in Iran. Arabs in Iran live in mix cities with Persians and Arabic language not allowed I think. Same this is with Azeris. Kurds not as they have different religion and culture I think.

[StonyArabia]

In Iraq maybe but this isnt sure in Iran. Arabs in Iran live in mix cities with Persians and Arabic language not allowed I think. Same this is with Azeris. Kurds not as they have different religion and culture I think.

Iranian Arabs don't want to be Persianized, but they are proud of their Shiaism. The Sunni Arab islanders though never got assimilated and want to be part of the UAE again. Arab Shias are mostly sheikhy and Akhbari who differ from Persian Shias being Usualis who show some Sunni influence.

[TheForeigner]

I never heard of the islands off the coast of Iran being independent and annexed by Iran. Wiki doesn't say anything either. I think only the Baloch have a good claim to independence from Iran and Pakistan too.

[Kamal900]

I dont believe in divide and conquer, nor do i believe that the Iranian azeris even want an independent state even. Iranian Azeris seem to strongly identify with their Iranian heritage than Turkic. My best friend, who happened to be an Azerbaijani Azeri, dosent believe in both pan-turkisim nor pan-iranism, like i dont(once i believed in the past) believe in pan-israelism, arabism or islamism, and all of these three are equally destructive to my people.

[TheForeigner]

I dont believe in divide and conquer, nor do i believe that the Iranian azeris even want an independent state even. Iranian Azeris seem to strongly identify with their Iranian heritage than Turkic. My best friend, who happened to be an Azerbaijani Azeri, dosent believe in both pan-turkisim nor pan-iranism, like i dont(once i believed in the past) believe in pan-israelism, arabism or islamism, and all of these three are equally destructive to my people.

What do you believe in and what is the deal with the Ahwaz Arabs Nabatea is talking about?

[Böri]

I dont believe in divide and conquer, nor do i believe that the Iranian azeris even want an independent state even. Iranian Azeris seem to strongly identify with their Iranian heritage than Turkic. My best friend, who happened to be an Azerbaijani Azeri, dosent believe in both pan-turkisim nor pan-iranism, like i dont(once i believed in the past) believe in pan-israelism, arabism or islamism, and all of these three are equally destructive to my people.

There is many Arabs in Iran but here you defend Persia from Turks. Are you really Arab or Persian worker in UAE? There is also Truthbetold supposed Azerbaijani who say Karabagh isnt Armenia or Azerbaijan but Persia.

[zarzian]

Lol at Nabatea and witness, only in your wildest wet dream will Iran ever lose territory. Iran is not like Iraq, Iraq is a newly formed country and in history it was never independent and never had its own identity other then the city state of Baghdad, that's why you are seeing it break apart, meanwhile Iran has been independent since the Achaemenids and firmly under Iranian control, even after defeat at the hands of the Mongols, British or Russians, the Iranians managed to regain control and held onto the core of our land.

And as for the Ahvazi Arabs, first of all they are not the Natives there, the natives were the Elamites who became assimilated into Persian blood, so Nabatea drop the your Sick Arabid fantasy about bedouins, the only place where Bedouins can claim is Arabia, you sound very desperate with your laughable ideas.

[Han Cholo]

The islands are Arabian originally part of the UAE they got them in 1971. Ahwaz was always the home of Shia Arabs, who had an independent emirate until 1925 and always felt closer to other Arabs.they just want autonomy but many want independence. What about the Baloch they want independence to?

Arabs should not even get one square cm of Iran. There are like 30 Arab states just as useless as each other while there is only an Iran, which has recently tried to save Arabs despite they keep blowing themselves up.

[TheForeigner]

Arabs should not even get one square cm of Iran. There are like 30 Arab states just as useless as each other while there is only an Iran, which has recently tried to save Arabs despite they keep blowing themselves up.

How did they try to save Arabs and no Iranians blowing themselves up or doing other terrorist stuff too?

[zarzian]

How did they try to save Arabs and no Iranians blowing themselves up or doing other terrorist stuff too?

Han Cholo is right, it is Iranian regime which funds Hezbollah and Hamas, and the Iranian regime which supports Asad and Shia Iraq, and btw none of these acts do I agree with because the Iranian regime are murderers and thieves and instead of feeding their own people they would rather feed these dirty scumbag Arab organizations, but that is a whole different story. I dont dislike Arabs, only the fanatical Islamist ones do I hate. Once an Arab stops his blind adoration of Islam, then they could be a very civilized and passionate person, specially Levantines.

And to your second point, no Iranians do not blow themselves up for Islamic and terrorism reasons, we only blow ourselves up to defend our country as many soldiers did in the War against Iraq. Iranians, no matter what language they speak, always unite when under external threats.

[N1019]

I never heard of the islands off the coast of Iran being independent and annexed by Iran. Wiki doesn't say anything either. I think only the Baloch have a good claim to independence from Iran and Pakistan too.

If we are talking about the Tunb islands and Abu Musa, they weren't "independent". They were under British control before 1971 as part of the Emirate of Sharjah, along with the rest of the Trucial States (now UAE), Bahrain and Qatar. When the British withdrew in 1971, Iran wanted to take their place, assuming responsibility for security in the Gulf and also wanted all other militaries out. Nixon and Kissinger agreed to elevate Iran's position for matters of geopolitical exigency and also because they had a good relationship with the Shah. However, no-one ever agreed to Iran's being the sole military presence in the Gulf, and unfortunately for the Shah, his good relationship with the US quickly went downhill after the fall of Nixon to the extent that they helped get rid of him in 1979.

Back to 1970 - Iran's ambitions went beyond maintaining security in the Gulf: they wanted Bahrain, which they considered theirs, back. Iranian claims over Bahrain extend into the distant past, were asserted several times during the twentieth century but never accepted by the League of Nations nor anyone else. Behind the UN agreement on "The Question of Bahrain", Iran relinquished all territorial claims over Bahrain. In return, the British allegedly allowed Iran to occupy the islands of Greater Tunb, Lesser Tunb and Abu Musa.

The speculation is that the British would not allow Iranian sovereignty over Bahrain under any circumstances, but wanted a strong navy to maintain security of the small islands to prevent their capture or use by Arab nationalists or pirates. Moreover, the newly independent sheikdoms weren't overly concerned at the time because the security of those islands also suited them, even if Iran was charged with maintaining that security.


Baluchistan
An independent Baluchistan is also apparently part of the plan to redraw the map of the Middle East. How far this gets pushed may come down to the status of energy projects like the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline, which could also be linked to India and China. After the US threatened sanctions on Pakistan for going ahead with the pipeline, I believe it was shelved.

Most of what is happening in that part of the world can be traced to control of energy resources. The US and allies want control of it all and don't care if they tear the place apart to get and keep it.

[Kamal900]

There is many Arabs in Iran but here you defend Persia from Turks. Are you really Arab or Persian worker in UAE? There is also Truthbetold supposed Azerbaijani who say Karabagh isnt Armenia or Azerbaijan but Persia.

We have like 500,000 or more Iranians here(i do have persian friends) while i never met a real turk in my life, and yes, i am an Arab, and you can ask Nabatea that we talk voice chat in Arabic together. Iran was the only country in the middle east that helped my people greatly during the war in 2014, and really, the idea that Arabs or Muslims for that matter tend to take care of each other is nothing but a load of baloney. Thats why i owe to Iranians more so than to most Arab countries.

[Kamal900]

Han Cholo is right, it is Iranian regime which funds Hezbollah and Hamas, and the Iranian regime which supports Asad and Shia Iraq, and btw none of these acts do I agree with because the Iranian regime are murderers and thieves and instead of feeding their own people they would rather feed these dirty scumbag Arab organizations, but that is a whole different story. I dont dislike Arabs, only the fanatical Islamist ones do I hate. Once an Arab stops his blind adoration of Islam, then they could be a very civilized and passionate person, specially Levantines.

And to your second point, no Iranians do not blow themselves up for Islamic and terrorism reasons, we only blow ourselves up to defend our country as many soldiers did in the War against Iraq. Iranians, no matter what language they speak, always unite when under external threats.

Thankfully, more and more of us are waking up by the day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G46GDFMTRgE