Neo-Nazis spearheaded the Maidan revolts

[Loki]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73348000/jpg/_73348671_bandera.jpg

Stepan Bandera is seen as a hero by them. But, he was responsible for the massacre and deportation of Jews and Poles in the Nazi period:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Views_towards_other_ethnic_groups

[Loki]

Monument in Liszna, Poland, to Poles killed:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Monument_to_vitims_of_Volhynia_massacre_1940-1945_at_cemetery_in_Liszna_plaque.jpg

[Äijä]

There are fascists in Moscow and they worship bolsheviks so I dont know if this really makes a difference.

[IceSwan]

just a idle gossip of ill-wishers
for Ukko almost all that's related to russland is bad or must be criticized :yo:

[Methmatician]

Maidan began last year.

[Ouistreham]

The Jews in France (and consequently the French government and media), led by the Zionist neo-conservative POS Bernard Henri Levy, are unanimously supporting the Kiev regime.
Weird.
http://orientalreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BHL.jpg
http://www.lightmediation.net/blog/wp-content/myfotos/bhl-kiev/2.jpg

[Äijä]

just a idle gossip of ill-wishers
for Ukko almost all that's related to russland is bad or must be criticized :yo:

Only things that are bad for others, Russia has many good people and culture.

[Sarmatian]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73348000/jpg/_73348671_bandera.jpg

Stepan Bandera is seen as a hero by them. But, he was responsible for the massacre and deportation of Jews and Poles in the Nazi period:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Views_towards_other_ethnic_groups

Stepan Bandera born 1 January 1909 Uhryniv Staryi, Galiсia, Austria-Hungary (today Ukraine).

And that's the ideal of an Ukrainian nationalist? :loco:

[Hevo]

Doesn't suprise me, they are nothing but a bunch of scumbags.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

All lies. Shit like this makes me believe the holocaust really could be a hoax. There's literally no white person or group that has not been accused of nazism at this point. Even most jews for fuck's sake.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Some of the paramilitaries are NS-influenced, and they were the spearhead of the movement.

[Longbowman]

Monument in Liszna, Poland, to Poles killed:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Monument_to_vitims_of_Volhynia_massacre_1940-1945_at_cemetery_in_Liszna_plaque.jpg

Monument to the Katyn Massacre in Wroclaw, Poland, to Polish officers killed by the Russians.

http://travelemissary.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/KatynMassacreMonumentWroclaw.jpg

My great-uncle and namesake narrowly avoided being part of this.

Russia admits culpability but refuses to consider the shootings of 23,000 surrendered soldiers and intellectuals a war crime, even though they bothered to blame it on the Germans to avoid being found out, meaning they knew it was wrong. (duh)

Putin supports this stance, and the Soviet legacy of imperialism.

Your point?

[Yehiel]

explains why they hung nazi flags

[Longbowman]

The Jewish community of Crimea supports Ukraine so it must not be too serious a problem.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.577735

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The Jewish community of Crimea supports Ukraine so it must not be too serious a problem.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.577735

Exactly, it's all propaganda because some parts of retardo EU don't want anyone to be independent. They even accuse irish nationalists of being nazis.

[Trun]

People should really start to make difference between nationalism and nazism. There is a big difference between "Ukraine for the Ukrainians" and "Heil Hitler".

[Partizan]

If you've lived something like Holodomor, it is understandable that you can symphatize Nazi collaborator Bandera.

Slava Ukraini!

[Hong Key]

IMO. The west has been planning to use* the Far-Right in that part of the world for awhile now. Not because George Soros, John McCain or Zbigniew Brzezinski** are Nazis Fascist*** but because they knew they could use them to wreak havoc. The Hard fighting and courageous Far-Right were used (duped) into removing friends of Russia, and putting the pro EU/US faction into power. Pro EU/US government may throw the Far-Right a few bones but they they will throw them under the bus when/if they can.


Group 1 - Opposition Government: are Pro EU // Anti Russian and Anti Far-Right .
Group 2 - Far-Right: Anti Russian and Anti EU~Opposition // Pro Ukraine for the Ukrainians. Do they really have power? I could be wrong but I don't think they do. EDIT: Some of the Right Sector have positions in government but I'm still not sure how much power they have.
Group 3 - Russophiles: Pro Russia // Anti EU and Anti Far-Right ????
Group 4 - Tartars: ????
Group 5 -????

* they don't care who they use to accomplish there goals. The US is fighting against Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and fighting with Al-Qaeda in Syria

**Zbigniew Brzezinski and the New World Order types tried to create there one world government. They knew they couldn't succeed with just one so they went with regional, EU/NAFTA/etc. Now they seem to have a new strategy and that is to smash everything up into little pieces. I could be very wrong but don't be surprised to see them break everything up. If you see Fox News talking about Southern secession and breaking up California into 6 pieces be afraid and remember i told you here first :)

*** kind of like what ukko said, old commies are now fascists and old fascists are now commies, everything is upside down

Right Sector
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?116610-Right-Sector-Pravyi-Sektor-%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B0%CC%81%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B9-%D1%81%D0%B5%CC%81%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80&p=2442193#post2442193

[Crn Volk]

Just as in Syria. The west has sponsored any anti-Russian groups. They are not concerned who they are at the moment, as long as they are anti-Russian. This will back-fire though later on.

[RussiaPrussia]

Monument to the Katyn Massacre in Wroclaw, Poland, to Polish officers killed by the Russians.

http://travelemissary.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/KatynMassacreMonumentWroclaw.jpg

My great-uncle and namesake narrowly avoided being part of this.

Russia admits culpability but refuses to consider the shootings of 23,000 surrendered soldiers and intellectuals a war crime, even though they bothered to blame it on the Germans to avoid being found out, meaning they knew it was wrong. (duh)

Putin supports this stance, and the Soviet legacy of imperialism.

Your point?
imperialism? at that time this happened poland was equally a fascist state like Italy, they even tried to invade other countries territories like ukraine and germany and where very hostile with flourish nationalist movement.

Stalin killed just 23 thousand Polish Elites<<< Know the difference, these people who died in katyn had it coming to them, there werent normal citizens but elites




The Jewish community of Crimea supports Ukraine so it must not be too serious a problem.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.577735

there are also jews who support saudi arabia just because of iran, many jews are irrational and completely obsessed with america and therefor take american interests over their own.

[Partizan]

Stalin killed just 23 thousand Polish elites.

Hmm, do you think it was not enough tovarisch?

[RussiaPrussia]

Hmm, do you think it was not enough tovarisch?

they were elites like your erdogan and poland was fascist at the time, this is something the media is covering up.

[Sarmatian]

If you've lived something like Holodomor, it is understandable that you can symphatize Nazi collaborator Bandera.

Slava Ukraini!

My family lived through holodomor and I think Bandera have nothing to do with Ukraine, he was just a thug and his followers are all same.

Now STFU and stop trying to play around on things you have little knowledge and understanding about.

[Virtuous]

The Jews in France (and consequently the French government and media), led by the Zionist neo-conservative POS Bernard Henri Levy, are unanimously supporting the Kiev regime.
Weird.
http://orientalreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BHL.jpg
http://www.lightmediation.net/blog/wp-content/myfotos/bhl-kiev/2.jpg


Indeed it is strange.

Some of the Ukranians are being used as pawns by both Imperialist forces - as a matter of fact I have no doubt that the U.S. along with the E.U have kickstarted the protests. As for the few being so called "neo-nazis" their leader has declared to be for Democracy, Liberalism and against AntiSemitism along with being collaborative with the ambassador to Israel. so there you have it. But I believe there is a good number of true NationalSocialists of whom also other Nationalists from Sweden, Italy, Germany and France are supporting in a legit struggle for independence and overthrowing corruption.

As far as Crimea goes, Russia has the right to protect it's strategic interests in this Imperialistic chess game against the U.S.

However, Ukranians also have the right to protect their National Sovereignty, despite some of them being manipulated. I just wish for the Ukranians that they don't buy much into Western "help", cause it'll mean them being served to the E.U. on a silver plate.

[Partizan]

they were elites like your erdogan and poland was fascist at the time, this is something the media is covering up.

I'd believe if I'd not know Stalin also killed Magjan Jumabayuli and many poets in Kazakhstan with the allegation of Japanese collaboration. However, Magjan was just a poet, not a general or an active politician... If Stalin wouldn't kill Choros Gurkin just for drawing Altai mountains; I'd say that all Polish intellectuals among those 23000 people were all fascists :)

[Longbowman]

they were elites like your erdogan and poland was fascist at the time, this is something the media is covering up.

Oh no way, you thumb me down and profess zero relevant knowledge, who could have guessed?

Fascist Poland is a new one though. I hadn't guessed that.

But yes, it's OK to shoot 23,000 elites including unarmed soldiers, professors, lawyers, leading civilians, intellectuals, and so on.

I guess being a German 23,000 will seem like peanuts to you, though, so perhaps I shouldn't judge, kamerad.


imperialism? at that time this happened poland was equally a fascist state like Italy, they even tried to invade other countries territories like ukraine and germany and where very hostile with flourish nationalist movement.


Yep, 1940s Poland tried to invade Ukraine and Germany.

Honestly RP, I've never done drugs, but I'll have a hit of whatever you're on.

[Partizan]

My family lived through holodomor and I think Bandera have nothing to do with Ukraine, he was just a thug and his followers are all same.

Now STFU and stop trying to play around on things you have little knowledge and understanding about.

The real hunger affected Turkic people(Crimean Tatars and Kazakhs) along with other non-Russian USSR Subjects(e.g. Ukrainians). There is no explanation of shipping all the food to Central Russia from Ukraine meanwhile Ukrainian farmers were getting poor due to collectivisation policies of Stalin.

Bandera was a Ukrainian/Ruthenian guy who fought for freedom of Ukraine. He had totally opposite political views with Makhno but shared the same fate!

[SobieskisavedEurope]

imperialism? at that time this happened poland was equally a fascist state like Italy, they even tried to invade other countries territories like ukraine and germany and where very hostile with flourish nationalist movement.

Stalin killed just 23 thousand Polish Elites<<< Know the difference, these people who died in katyn had it coming to them, there werent normal citizens but elites





there are also jews who support saudi arabia just because of iran, many jews are irrational and completely obsessed with america and therefor take american interests over their own.

How was Poland fascist!?

The Soviet Union had collaborated with Nazi Germany to invade Poland!

Soviets in Katyn massacre were brutally butchering Polish elites to try & dismember the Polish people!

[RussiaPrussia]

Oh no way, you thumb me down and profess zero relevant knowledge, who could have guessed?

Fascist Poland is a new one though. I hadn't guessed that.

But yes, it's OK to shoot 23,000 elites including unarmed soldiers, professors, lawyers, leading civilians, intellectuals, and so on.

I guess being a German 23,000 will seem like peanuts to you, though, so perhaps I shouldn't judge, kamerad.



Yep, 1940s Poland tried to invade Ukraine and Germany.

Honestly RP, I've never done drugs, but I'll have a hit of whatever you're on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Poland#Modern_history

yes, poland was agressive against germany when it was weimare republic and werent allowed to attack other countries thanks to your embargoes. The poles tried several times to conquer Silesia.

This polish aggressiveness was one of many of reasons why hitler became so popular to germans.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Poland#Modern_history

yes, poland was agressive against germany when it was weimare republic and werent allowed to attack other countries thanks to your embargoes. The poles tried several times to conquer Silesia.

This polish aggressiveness was one of many of reasons why hitler became so popular to germans.

The Silesian uprisings happened because a Polish majority was trapped in Silesia where it was subjected to Germanization,oppression, murder, hangings etc by the hands of Germans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesian_Uprisings

On 15 August 1919, German border guards (Grenzschutz) massacred ten Silesian civilians in the Mysłowice mine (Myslowitzer Grube). The massacre sparked protests from the Silesian Polish miners, including a general strike of about 140,000 workers,[10] and caused the First Silesian Uprising against German control over Upper Silesia. Revolting, the miners demanded the local government and police to become ethnically mixed (German-Polish).[2]
Roughly 21,000 Germans soldiers of the Weimar Republic's Provisional National Army (Vorläufige Reichsheer), with about 40,000 troops in reserve, quickly suppressed the uprising. What followed was German repression of the ethnic Poles of Silesia, and approximately 2,500 Poles were either hanged or executed by firing squad

[Longbowman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Poland#Modern_history

yes, poland was agressive against germany when it was weimare republic and werent allowed to attack other countries thanks to your embargoes. The poles tried several times to conquer Silesia.

This polish aggressiveness was one of many of reasons why hitler became so popular to germans.

My word. You're Nazi on top of everything else? Have you genuinely succumbed to the Nazi False Flag operation?

The last conflict they fought with Germany was in 1921, 20 years before Katyn, and it was minor and to do with unresolved problems dating from when Germany has owned half of Poland (and your beloved non-Imperialist Russia, the other half) a mere 2.5 years beforehand.

Regardless, nothing excuses war crimes. But as a Nazi I wouldn't expect you to believe this. I am surprised that you're so pro-WWII Germany, though.

[Rambo07]

I don't think Russia is doing anything wrong, they have their base to protect and its not as if Russians are foreign to Ukraine lol, ethnically the Eastern part is Russian.
Also Obama wants to put sanctions on Russia, what an idiot, lol.

[RussiaPrussia]

My word. You're Nazi on top of everything else? Have you genuinely succumbed to the Nazi False Flag operation?

The last conflict they fought with Germany was in 1921, 20 years before Katyn, and it was minor and to do with unresolved problems dating from when Germany has owned half of Poland (and your beloved non-Imperialist Russia, the other half) a mere 2.5 years beforehand.

Regardless, nothing excuses war crimes. But as a Nazi I wouldn't expect you to believe this. I am surprised that you're so pro-WWII Germany, though.

no i am only pro weimar republic that was humiliated after the war by the western powers, and i can somewhat understand why such a nut job like hitler came into power.

[Hercus Monte]

http://projectmaidan.com/post/78566439139/ukraines-chief-rabbi-on-claims-of-ukrainian

[RussiaPrussia]

The Silesian uprisings happened because a Polish majority was trapped in Silesia where it was subjected to Germanization,oppression, murder, hangings etc by the hands of Germans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesian_Uprisings

On 15 August 1919, German border guards (Grenzschutz) massacred ten Silesian civilians in the Mysłowice mine (Myslowitzer Grube). The massacre sparked protests from the Silesian Polish miners, including a general strike of about 140,000 workers,[10] and caused the First Silesian Uprising against German control over Upper Silesia. Revolting, the miners demanded the local government and police to become ethnically mixed (German-Polish).[2]
Roughly 21,000 Germans soldiers of the Weimar Republic's Provisional National Army (Vorläufige Reichsheer), with about 40,000 troops in reserve, quickly suppressed the uprising. What followed was German repression of the ethnic Poles of Silesia, and approximately 2,500 Poles were either hanged or executed by firing squad

excuses after excuses

[Longbowman]

no i am only pro weimar republic that was humiliated after the war by the western powers, and i can somewhat understand why such a nut job like hitler came into power.

I see.

Anyhow your justification of the mass murder of 23,000 people is deplorable.

[Hercus Monte]

Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich, a chief rabbi of Ukraine, accused Russia of staging anti-Semitic “provocations” in Crimea in order to justify its invasion of the former Soviet republic.
At a press conference in the Manhattan office of the United Jewish Communities of Eastern Europe, Bleich compared Russia’s behavior to that of the Nazis prior to the Anschluss invasion of Austria in 1938.
“Things may be done by Russians dressing up as Ukrainian nationalists,” he said, adding that it’s “the same way the Nazis did when they wanted to go into Austria and created provocations.”




Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/03/03/news-opinion/world/ukraine-chief-rabbi-accuses-russians-of-staging-anti-semitic-provocations#ixzz2v3Gu5Yjp

[SobieskisavedEurope]

I see.

Anyhow your justification of the mass murder of 23,000 people is deplorable.

The Soviets had mass murdered over 100,000 Poles in 1937 - 1938 before WW2 even started in the Polish operation of the NKVD!

[RussiaPrussia]

Anyhow your justification of the mass murder of 23,000 people is deplorable.

i dont justify anything espacially not killing but it should be noted that these people were elites which is overshadow, and second this catyn massacre with 23 thousand death is very small to the countless other crimes in ww2. Using it to bash russia is probably one of the biggest insult you can do to the 27 million death soviets.

Its completely unacceptable bringing this shit up all the time like its an holocaust.

[Sarmatian]

:scratch:

Your claim


If you've lived something like Holodomor, it is understandable that you can symphatize Nazi collaborator Bandera.

I replied that my family lived Holodomor and still thinks Bandera is a thug thus your claim is invalid. And your reply:


The real hunger affected Turkic people(Crimean Tatars and Kazakhs) along with other non-Russian USSR Subjects(e.g. Ukrainians). There is no explanation of shipping all the food to Central Russia from Ukraine meanwhile Ukrainian farmers were getting poor due to collectivisation policies of Stalin.

WTF are you on about? How is that related to the discussion? You are Turk living in Turkey, what do you know about Holodomor? Do you have grandparents and their friends who survived through it? If no, if all your information coming from some TV shows then just shut up, you know nothing about those who went through it and their opinions.


Bandera was a Ukrainian/Ruthenian guy who fought for freedom of Ukraine. He had totally opposite political views with Makhno but shared the same fate!

Can you read English? Bandera was Ruthenian born in Austria-Hungary. His homeland was annexed by USSR as result of Treaty of Versailles at the end of WWI and later some more as result of WWII. It has never been a part of Ukraine or Russian Empire before and any claims that he was Ukrainian are retarded.

[Longbowman]

i dont justify anything espacially not killing but it should be noted that these people were elites which is overshadow, and second this catyn massacre with 23 thousand death is very small to the countless other crimes in ww2. Using it to bash russia is probably one of the biggest insult you can do to the 27 million death soviets.

Its completely unacceptable bringing this shit up all the time like its an holocaust.

I did it, if you will notice, in response to Loki doing something similar.

[Virtuous]

The real hunger affected Turkic people(Crimean Tatars and Kazakhs) along with other non-Russian USSR Subjects(e.g. Ukrainians). There is no explanation of shipping all the food to Central Russia from Ukraine meanwhile Ukrainian farmers were getting poor due to collectivisation policies of Stalin.

Bandera was a Ukrainian/Ruthenian guy who fought for freedom of Ukraine. He had totally opposite political views with Makhno but shared the same fate!

Germans, regardless of the indirect culpability of NationalSocialist ideology were no angels in Ukraine, but compared to Stalinism, it was a joy ride. What majority of people know about WWII and NS is basically twisted truths and projected anti-Slavic violence/hatred from the side of the NKVD and Jewish Bolsheviks onto the Germans. I don't care if some are pissed off at what I say.

[RussiaPrussia]

Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich, a chief rabbi of Ukraine, accused Russia of staging anti-Semitic “provocations” in Crimea in order to justify its invasion of the former Soviet republic.
At a press conference in the Manhattan office of the United Jewish Communities of Eastern Europe, Bleich compared Russia’s behavior to that of the Nazis prior to the Anschluss invasion of Austria in 1938.
“Things may be done by Russians dressing up as Ukrainian nationalists,” he said, adding that it’s “the same way the Nazis did when they wanted to go into Austria and created provocations.”




Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/03/03/news-opinion/world/ukraine-chief-rabbi-accuses-russians-of-staging-anti-semitic-provocations#ixzz2v3Gu5Yjp

Jew stabbed in Kiev on way home from synagogue (http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Jew-stabbed-in-Kiev-on-way-home-from-synagogue-338594)
http://www.jpost.com/HttpHandlers/ShowImage.ashx?id=193414&h=236&w=370
Dov Ber Glickman made his way back to the synagogue where he collapsed and was taken to hospital.

student at a kollel, an institute for full-time, advanced Talmud study for married men, was stabbed in Kiev on Friday evening.

Related:
Resolution of the Ukrainian protests
It was the second attack on a Jewish target in the Ukrainian capital in under a week.

Three youths ambushed the victim as he made his way home from services at a synagogue in the Podil neighborhood, according to Hatzalah Ukraine, a local Jewish organization.

The assailants beat their victim, Dov Ber Glickman, 28, before stabbing him three times in the feet and fleeing, Chabad emissary Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman said.

Glickman made his way back to the synagogue where he collapsed. He was taken to the hospital where he underwent emergency surgery on his foot.

Hatzalah Ukraine called for increased security at synagogues in response to the recent “serious anti-Semitic incidents.”

On Shabbat a week ago, four men followed Hillel Wertheimer, an Israeli-born Hebrew teacher, home from synagogue and beat him.

“Nowadays, the beating of a defenseless Jewish school teacher is a culmination of anti-Semitism. The Ukrainian government must take tough measures to prevent such incidents in future,” Boris Fuchsmann, president of the Jewish Confederation of Ukraine said after last week’s attack.

US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey R. Pyatt confirmed in an email to The Jerusalem Post that he met with Ukrainian Chief Rabbi Dov Bleich last week to discuss “recent political developments.”

The World Jewish Congress said Wertheimer’s beating was part of a wider trend of “anti-Semitic incitement and extremist activities” in the country fostered in part by the growing popularity of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party, which the Jewish organization has deemed a neo-Nazi group.

Svoboda has been a prominent fixture of the political protests that have wracked Kiev in the face of President Viktor Yanukovich’s pivot toward Moscow and rejection of closer trade links with the European Union. While most European far-right parties oppose closer integration with Europe, Svoboda has embraced the spurned EU trade deal as better for Ukraine than tightening ties with Russia, which the party sees as a threat to Ukrainian independence.

Several Jewish leaders have expressed concern over the prominent role that the Svoboda party has played in the protests and have called for beefed-up security at community institutions.

Speaking to the Post from the hospital on Saturday evening, Azman said that Glickman who also goes by the name Boris Sherba, was beginning to improve but that he had “lost a lot of blood” and was still unable to walk.
"We are astonished by the the lack of reaction to last week's episode and now we have confirmed that these are planned attacks," Ukrainian Chief Rabbi Dov Bleich told the Post, confirming that the Jewish community is "working with the police and security services of Ukraine to find the culprits."

Henry Rome contributed to this report.

[Fortis in Arduis]

The Katyn massacre was calculatedly dysgenic and 22,000 times worse than regicide.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that Polish university graduates were automatically qualified to be officers, and that the majority of graduates had been conscripted, which made the massacre a wonderful means of making a more "equal" Poland, you understand.

RussiaPrussia illustrates why evil and despicable trannies should stay out of politics.

[IceSwan]

Jew stabbed in Kiev on way home from synagogue (http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Jew-stabbed-in-Kiev-on-way-home-from-synagogue-338594)

i really don't rule out that Fortis_in_Arduis's grandfather killed the poles in Katyn

http://s020.radikal.ru/i722/1403/e3/b93a0de1237b.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

[Hercus Monte]

Jew stabbed in Kiev on way home from synagogue (http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Jew-stabbed-in-Kiev-on-way-home-from-synagogue-338594)

The exception proves the rule

[Sarmatian]

Germans, regardless of the indirect culpability of NationalSocialist ideology were no angels in Ukraine, but compared to Stalinism, it was a joy ride. What majority of people know about WWII and NS is basically twisted truths and projected anti-Slavic violence/hatred from the side of the NKVD and Jewish Bolsheviks onto the Germans. I don't care if some are pissed off at what I say.

The problem is Holodomor, Katyn and all other atrocities commited by commies have little to do with what's going on in Ukraine now. It's all past and anyone accusing Putin in being second Hitler or Stalin is a retard. Putin maybe corrupt but he is not a commie anymore. At worst his current motives are driven by kleptocratic desires and that is still a big question. But regardless of his motivation one thing is certain: his motives have nothing to do with all the lunatic ideologies that lead to all the massive losses of lives in 20th century.

Today we have a situation where all the nationalistic attitudes of Ukraine coming from regions that up to 20th century used to be parts of Austria-Hungary and Poland. They have little in common with Ukraine proper which used to be part of Russian Empire for centuries and where people are largerly indifferent or pro-Russian. The roots of this hatred towards Russia come from one simple fact: all those people are Greek-Catholics. The Bandera himself and his mother were children of Catholic priests which is the one and only reason for all their anti-Russian sentiments. It was the only source of his emotional drive which he later transformed using national-socialist ideology to be in line with other anti-Russians.

That's the reality of today. Forget about Holodomor and Katyn, nobody on the Russian side wants to massacre Poles and starve Ukrainians to their deaths. But looking at the claims and actions of Western Ukrainian radicals and their strife for power people are really worried about their own safety.

[Hong Key]

delete

[glass]

How was Poland fascist!?

The Soviet Union had collaborated with Nazi Germany to invade Poland!

Poland had collaborated with Nazi Germany to invade Czechoslovakia!
Dont tell me you did not know that:rolleyes:

[Styrian Mujo]

The problem is Holodomor, Katyn and all other atrocities commited by commies have little to do with what's going on in Ukraine now. It's all past and anyone accusing Putin in being second Hitler or Stalin is a retard. Putin maybe corrupt but he is not a commie anymore. At worst his current motives are driven by kleptocratic desires and that is still a big question. But regardless of his motivation one thing is certain: his motives have nothing to do with all the lunatic ideologies that lead to all the massive losses of lives in 20th century.

Today we have a situation where all the nationalistic attitudes of Ukraine coming from regions that up to 20th century used to be parts of Austria-Hungary and Poland. They have little in common with Ukraine proper which used to be part of Russian Empire for centuries and where people are largerly indifferent or pro-Russian. The roots of this hatred towards Russia come from one simple fact: all those people are Greek-Catholics. The Bandera himself and his mother were children of Catholic priests which is the one and only reason for all their anti-Russian sentiments. It was the only source of his emotional drive which he later transformed using national-socialist ideology to be in line with other anti-Russians.

That's the reality of today. Forget about Holodomor and Katyn, nobody on the Russian side wants to massacre Poles and starve Ukrainians to their deaths. But looking at the claims and actions of Western Ukrainian radicals and their strife for power people are really worried about their own safety.
So Ukrainians are bascially eastern Slavic Croats?

[Musso]

Can't believe the Jews are supporting the current Right wing government of Ukraine. Has the West used them to the point of supporting fascists that hate their guts?

[Trun]

The problem is Holodomor, Katyn and all other atrocities commited by commies have little to do with what's going on in Ukraine now.

No, they have a lot to do. Successors of evil empires (like Russia and Turkey) always seem to forget that past is important in shaping the present and future. Do you really think people who were oppressed are sheeps, or they forget, or their ancestors haven't told them what happened to their families?


It's all past and anyone accusing Putin in being second Hitler or Stalin is a retard. Putin maybe corrupt but he is not a commie anymore.

There isn't such thing as ex-communist. I don't know how this asshole mesmerizes Russians to believe he is a godlike being. Maybe because they share his expansionist views.


That's the reality of today. Forget about Holodomor and Katyn, nobody on the Russian side wants to massacre Poles and starve Ukrainians to their deaths. But looking at the claims and actions of Western Ukrainian radicals and their strife for power people are really worried about their own safety.

That's what Putin says too, to justify a military action in Crimea and possibly in Eastern Ukraine.

[Windischer]

That's the reality of today. Forget about Holodomor and Katyn, nobody on the Russian side wants to massacre Poles and starve Ukrainians to their deaths. But looking at the claims and actions of Western Ukrainian radicals and their strife for power people are really worried about their own safety.

ach suddenly youre looking at what radicals say, until now you havent been? i hope you share the same concerns for safety of people in russia from russian radicals and skinheads.
whos worried about safety? afaik turčynov (current president) is russian speaking, jaceňuk is russian speaking (and jew afaik), tymošenko is anything but ukrainian.
such an evil antirussian government.
p. s. poltava has been part of austrian dominion as well?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Can't believe the Jews are supporting the current Right wing government of Ukraine. Has the West used them to the point of supporting fascists that hate their guts?

A nazi-like buffer state right on border with muslim madness is not such a bad idea.

[Äijä]

Monument to the Katyn Massacre in Wroclaw, Poland, to Polish officers killed by the Russians.

http://travelemissary.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/KatynMassacreMonumentWroclaw.jpg

My great-uncle and namesake narrowly avoided being part of this.

Russia admits culpability but refuses to consider the shootings of 23,000 surrendered soldiers and intellectuals a war crime, even though they bothered to blame it on the Germans to avoid being found out, meaning they knew it was wrong. (duh)

Putin supports this stance, and the Soviet legacy of imperialism.

Your point?

The Soviets planned to take Finnish officers and national guard members to Katyn after they had beaten Finland in Winter War, that would have been 150-200.000 men.

[Äijä]

Lets take a recap what is in the mind of the Muscovites with the Eurasian union.


Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin (Russian: Алекса́ндр Ге́льевич Ду́гин, born 7 January 1962) is a Russian political scientist, traditionalist, and one of the most popular ideologists of the creation of a Eurasian empire that would be against the "North Atlantic interests". He is known for his proximity to fascism,[1][2][3][4] and had close ties to the Kremlin and Russian military.[5] He was the leading organizer of National Bolshevik Party, National Bolshevik Front, and Eurasia Party. His political activities are directed toward restoration of the Russian Empire through partitioning of the former Soviet republics, such as Georgia and Ukraine, and unification with Russian-speaking territories, especially Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.[6][7] He is known for the book Foundations of Geopolitics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin


The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia is a geopolitical book by Alexander Dugin. The book has had a large influence within the Russian military, police, and statist foreign policy elites[1] and is used as a textbook in the General Staff Academy of Russian military.[1][1]



The book declares that "the battle for the world rule of [ethnic] Russians" has not ended and Russia remains "the staging area of a new anti-bourgeois, anti-American revolution." The Eurasian Empire will be constructed "on the fundamental principle of the common enemy: the rejection of Atlanticism, strategic control of the USA, and the refusal to allow liberal values to dominate us."[1]
Military operations play relatively little role. The textbook believes in a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries.[1] The book states that "the maximum task [of the future] is the 'Finlandization’ of all of Europe".[1]

In Europe:

Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term a "Moscow-Berlin axis".[1]

France should be encouraged to form a "Franco-German bloc" with Germany. Both countries have a "firm anti-Atlanticist tradition".[1]

United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[1]

Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast".[1]

Estonia should be given to Germany's sphere of influence.[1]

Latvia and Lithuania should be given a "special status" in the Eurasian-Russian sphere.[1]

Poland should be granted a "special status" in the Eurasian sphere.[1]

Romania, Macedonia, "Serbian Bosnia" and Greece - "orthodox collectivist East" - will unite with the "Moscow the Third Rome" and reject the "rational-individualistic West".[1]

Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as an independent state with certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is sanitary cordon, which would be inadmissible.[1]

In the Middle East and Central Asia:

The book stresses the "continental Russian-Islamic alliance" which lies "at the foundation of anti-Atlanticist strategy". The alliance is based on the "traditional character of Russian and Islamic civilization".

Iran is a key ally. The book uses the term "Moscow-Tehran axis".[1]

Armenia has a special role and will serve as a "strategic base" and it is necessary to create "the [subsidiary] axis Moscow-Erevan-Teheran". Armenians "are an

Aryan people ... [like] the Iranians and the Kurds".[1]

Azerbaijan could be "split up" or given to Iran.[1]

Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.[1]

Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.[1]

The book regards the Caucasus as a Russian territory, including "the eastern and northern shores of the Caspian (the territories of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan)" and Central Asia (mentioning Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan and Tajikistan).[1]

In Asia:

China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled"[2]. Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction –

Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia".[1]

Russia should manipulate Japanese politics by offering the Kuril Islands to Japan and provoking anti-Americanism.[1]

Mongolia should be absorbed into Eurasia-Russia.[1]

The book emphasizes that Russia must spread Anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main ‘scapegoat’ will be precisely the U.S."

In the United States:
Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]

The Eurasian Project could be expanded to South and Central America.[1]
Reviews[edit]

Hoover Institution senior fellow John B. Dunlop states that "the impact of this intended “Eurasianist” textbook on key Russian elites testifies to the worrisome rise of fascist ideas and sentiments during the late Yeltsin and the Putin period."[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvg7lRsCVJ8

[Äijä]

Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich, a chief rabbi of Ukraine, accused Russia of staging anti-Semitic “provocations” in Crimea in order to justify its invasion of the former Soviet republic.
At a press conference in the Manhattan office of the United Jewish Communities of Eastern Europe, Bleich compared Russia’s behavior to that of the Nazis prior to the Anschluss invasion of Austria in 1938.
“Things may be done by Russians dressing up as Ukrainian nationalists,” he said, adding that it’s “the same way the Nazis did when they wanted to go into Austria and created provocations.”




Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/03/03/news-opinion/world/ukraine-chief-rabbi-accuses-russians-of-staging-anti-semitic-provocations#ixzz2v3Gu5Yjp

Truth coming out.

[Aunt Hilda]

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1897020_597424593680553_787046542_n.jpg

[Sarmatian]

So Ukrainians are bascially eastern Slavic Croats?

Read again: most of these people have never been a part of Russian Empire and were only annexed into Ukrainian SSR by commies. So the question should be asked: can we consider Ruthenian Greek-Catholics that live on the territory of modern Ukraine as ethnic Ukrainians?

[Sarmatian]

Do you really think people who were oppressed are sheeps, or they forget, or their ancestors haven't told them what happened to their families?

As I said before my family was oppressed too. So what? I have two choices:

1) keep in mind the history of my people and work my life in a way to minimize chances of such unfortunate events happening again;
2) develop unhealthy fixation on the problem of the past and pursue idea of revenge even tho all those responsible are long dead.

I don't know about you but to me choice is obvious.


Successors of evil empires... There isn't such thing as ex-communist.

:picard2:
If you want people to take you seriously you better reconsider your rhetoric.

[Sarmatian]

ach suddenly youre looking at what radicals say, until now you havent been? i hope you share the same concerns for safety of people in russia from russian radicals and skinheads.
whos worried about safety? afaik turčynov (current president) is russian speaking, jaceňuk is russian speaking (and jew afaik), tymošenko is anything but ukrainian.
such an evil antirussian government.
p. s. poltava has been part of austrian dominion as well?

Your comparison of radicals of Ukraine and Russia is baseless because at this stage in Russia neo-Nazis have no chance of getting anywhere near a position of power. But in Ukraine the leader of Right Wing was offered the post of country's security chief. I hope you can see the difference.

As for those you listed only Tymoshenko have some remote hope of taming those radicals, the rest are spineless shit that have no idea what to do with this aggressive bunch.

[blogen]

So Ukrainians are bascially eastern Slavic Croats?

Yes. Ukraina is a Yugoslavia with two related ethnic groups: Westukrainians and Eastukrainians +a huge Russian minority.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Poland had collaborated with Nazi Germany to invade Czechoslovakia!
Dont tell me you did not know that:rolleyes:

Poland annexed the Polish majority Zaolzie on the defensive.

Soviet Union attacked Polish majority Poland on the offensive!

Soviet Union had more than Molotov Ribbentrop pact!

Soviet Union had a credit agreement & friendship pact with Nazi Germany!

[Musso]

A nazi-like buffer state right on border with muslim madness is not such a bad idea.

Where is the Muslim madness?

[Hevo]

Bandera and his organisation are responsible for murdering (ten) thousands of innocent Poles so it's disgusting to see that people even sympathize this person and his organisation.

[IceSwan]

evil empires (like Russia and Turkey) ... Do you really think people who were oppressed are sheeps, or they forget, or their ancestors haven't told them what happened to their families? actually rus people are Most Oppressed People Ever. but this topic is not for internet discussion

There isn't such thing as ex-communist. pew...it's time to make something new, something extraordinary ... let's adventure ! :clap:

I don't know how this asshole mesmerizes Russians to believe he is a godlike being.
easy. for example, if to be honest you Ur_mom behave like a total asshole. going from one topic to another and blame us just for nothing. but i know deep down you are good man

Putin.today he is, tomorrow he doesn't exist. someday you will be able to visit his grave without flowers

http://kakprosto-st.cdn.ngenix.net//images/article/2011/8/22/1_525518014b2a4525518014b2e4.jpg


Truth coming out.
we expect a lot of interesting evens in the future: new cultural renaissance, the next scientific revolution, the colonization of planets, meeting with extraterrestrial minds, and even immortality. but for me it hard to imagine immortal Ukkos. immortal Ukkos may be cause of eternal troubles. or not?

[Äijä]

we expect a lot of interesting evens in the future: new cultural renaissance, the next scientific revolution, the colonization of planets, meeting with extraterrestrial minds, and even immortality. but for me it hard to imagine immortal Ukkos. immortal Ukkos may be cause of eternal troubles. or not?

Muscovite eternal peace is the same that muslims have in mind, it comes from domination, extermination and conquest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvg7lRsCVJ8

[Sarmatian]

Muscovite eternal peace is the same that muslims have in mind, it comes from domination, extermination and conquest.

When I read some of your posts I can't help it but think you're desperately trying to find an excuse for testing all those military toys in possession of Finland and realization of all the detailed plans of attack developed over years. Am I right? :p

[Hercus Monte]

When I read some of your posts I can't help it but think you're desperately trying to find an excuse for testing all those military toys in possession of Finland and realization of all the detailed plans of attack developed over years. Am I right? :p
it's true thou, your culture stems from Muscovy, and Muscovy's defining characteristic is it's indefensibility.

[Äijä]

When I read some of your posts I can't help it but think you're desperately trying to find an excuse for testing all those military toys in possession of Finland and realization of all the detailed plans of attack developed over years. Am I right? :p

I really would like to see a Novgoridian-Hanseatic Russia that stops its imperialistic ways and joins Europe for mutual benefit, then we can use toys on the Chinese or Iranians if need be.

[Sarmatian]

it's true thou, your culture stems from Muscovy, and Muscovy's defining characteristic is it's indefensibility.

I think you're taking me for someone else. My culture have nothing to do with Muscovy proper.

[Sarmatian]

I really would like to see a Novgoridian-Hanseatic Russia that stops its imperialistic ways and joins Europe for mutual benefit, then we can use toys on the Chinese or Iranians if need be.

To be honest I'm not aware of any anti-Finnish sentiments in modern Russia. Only some extreme bluff from small dicks desperately trying to enter political scene using imperialistic rhetoric. Such bluff could be a worrying sign for you but I'm yet to see anything serious in these threats.

[Äijä]

To be honest I'm not aware of any anti-Finnish sentiments in modern Russia. Only some extreme bluff from small dicks desperately trying to enter political scene using imperialistic rhetoric. Such bluff could be a worrying sign for you but I'm yet to see anything serious in these threats.

So you dont think Dugin has supporters for his views in the upper tiers of Russian leadership?

The fact that Russia is re-arming and has nukes makes it impossible to just believe there is no sinister plans for future
Also the preparatory intelligence operations points that there are clear imperial goals.
The Russian understanding of true greatness is based on the ability to dominate others and make others fear the Russian Bear.
As long as this is the culture, this goes for large portions of the common people also, there will be no trust or true friendship.

Russia should have done the same as Germany did going trough the Nazi past, that was impossible as no one was willing to loose face.
So the history was twisted and in the end Russians are only victims but still boast the Stalinistic legacy.

Russia has huge potential as a country and people, but it demands letting go of some things.

[glass]

Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape

in english http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
in russian http://russian.rt.com/article/23679

Paet confirmed it http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

Estonia's minister of foreign affairs is probably KGB agent as well :rolleyes:

The snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were allegedly hired by Maidan leaders, according to a leaked phone conversation between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign affairs minister, which has emerged online.
“There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition,” Urmas Paet said during the conversation.

“I think we do want to investigate. I mean, I didn’t pick that up, that’s interesting. Gosh,” Ashton answered.

The call took place after Estonia’s Foreign Minister Urmas Paet visited Kiev on February 25 at the peak of clashes between the pro-EU protesters and security forces in the Ukrainian capital.
Paet also recalled his conversation with a doctor who treated those shot by snipers in Kiev. She said that both protesters and police were shot at by the same people.

“And second, what was quite disturbing, this same Olga [Bogomolets] told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides,” the Estonian FM stressed.

Ashton reacted to the information by saying: “Well, yeah…that’s, that’s terrible.”

“So that she then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened,” Paet said.

Olga Bogomolets was the main doctor for the Maidan mobile clinic when protests turned violent in Kiev. She treated the gravely injured and helped organized their transportation to neighboring countries, who had expressed a willingness to treat those with severe wounds. From the outset, Olga blamed the injuries and deaths on snipers. She turned down the position of Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine for Humanitarian Affairs offered by the coup-appointed regime.
The Estonian FM has described the whole sniper issue as “disturbing” and added, “it already discredits from the very beginning” the new Ukrainian power.

His overall impressions of what he saw during his one-day trip to Kiev are “sad,” Paet said during the conversation.

He stressed that the Ukrainian people don’t trust the Maidan leaders, with all the opposition politicians slated to join the new government “having dirty past.”

The file was reportedly uploaded to the web by officers of Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) loyal to ousted President Viktor Yanukovich who hacked Paet’s and Ashton’s phones.

94 people were killed and another 900 injured during the standoff between police and protesters at Maidan Saquare in Kiev last month.

[Longbowman]

“I think we do want to investigate. I mean, I didn’t pick that up, that’s interesting. Gosh,” Ashton answered.

Ashton reacted to the information by saying: “Well, yeah…that’s, that’s terrible.”


Aha.

[Sarmatian]

So you dont think Dugin has supporters for his views in the upper tiers of Russian leadership?

The fact that Russia is re-arming and has nukes makes it impossible to just believe there is no sinister plans for future
Also the preparatory intelligence operations points that there are clear imperial goals.
The Russian understanding of true greatness is based on the ability to dominate others and make others fear the Russian Bear.
As long as this is the culture, this goes for large portions of the common people also, there will be no trust or true friendship.

Russia should have done the same as Germany did going trough the Nazi past, that was impossible as no one was willing to loose face.
So the history was twisted and in the end Russians are only victims but still boast the Stalinistic legacy.

Russia has huge potential as a country and people, but it demands letting go of some things.

Unfortunately you're right, Dugin has quite a few supporters. But you have to realize a few things:

- Finland only takes a very small place in the big picture and not really decisive. Not that it's much of a relief for you but still.
- Most of his supporters are older people who had at least part of their childhood affected by USSR propaganda machine. They are wired this way. All you need to do is wait until they're gone.
- From my understanding most of young folk (even those who support Dugin in general) have no outstanding issues with Finland and ready to let it go. It could be different in northern parts of Russia but at least that is what I witnessed at the Russian South.
- Oddly enough quite a number of Russians in fact respect Finns for having balls to fight back in the Winter War. This is an achievement on your part and can be a ground for development of mutual sympathy. Just don't spoil it with bitching about 'evil Russians'.
- Putin himself proved to be quite rational leader motivated by pragmatic views of gains/losses rather than ideas of greatness at any cost. And I personally don't see much of a gain for Russia in capturing a square meter of Finnish land, there are more than enough of snow in Russia already ;)

That's the way I see it. One thing is certain: nobody in Russia will apologize for what happened in the past. We are not Germans, our mentality is different. I can only say sorry for what I did myself and I'm nobody to judge the deeds of my ancestors, I can only learn from them and that's it. But in turn I'm not expecting anyone to apologize for mistreatment of me or my people, if I don't like something I better grow up a pair and go out fix it.

Doesn't sounds like reassuring much, I know :D But I think in general people tend to over-complicate the 'Russian problem'.

[Äijä]

Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape

in english http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
in russian http://russian.rt.com/article/23679

Paet confirmed it http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

Estonia's minister of foreign affairs is probably KGB agent as well :rolleyes:

Funny that the proof for this is that same people shot police and protesters, sorry if I think Russians could be behind it also.

[Sarmatian]

Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape

in english http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
in russian http://russian.rt.com/article/23679

Paet confirmed it http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

Estonia's minister of foreign affairs is probably KGB agent as well :rolleyes:

That's quite a revelation. Will be ironic if Estonian minister will be the key figure in taking all this Ukrainian mafia down :D


Funny that the proof for this is that same people shot police and protesters, sorry if I think Russians could be behind it also.

Have to ask thyself: 'What's the gain for Russia in ousting Yanuk and bringing these new people to power?'

[Äijä]

Unfortunately you're right, Dugin has quite a few supporters. But you have to realize a few things:

- Finland only takes a very small place in the big picture and not really decisive. Not that it's much of a relief for you but still.
- Most of his supporters are older people who had at least part of their childhood affected by USSR propaganda machine. They are wired this way. All you need to do is wait until they're gone.
- From my understanding most of young folk (even those who support Dugin in general) have no outstanding issues with Finland and ready to let it go. It could be different in northern parts of Russia but at least that is what I witnessed at the Russian South.
- Oddly enough quite a number of Russians in fact respect Finns for having balls to fight back in the Winter War. This is an achievement on your part and can be a ground for development of mutual sympathy. Just don't spoil it with bitching about 'evil Russians'.
- Putin himself proved to be quite rational leader motivated by pragmatic views of gains/losses rather than ideas of greatness at any cost. And I personally don't see much of a gain for Russia in capturing a square meter of Finnish land, there are more than enough of snow in Russia already ;)

That's the way I see it. One thing is certain: nobody in Russia will apologize for what happened in the past. We are not Germans, our mentality is different. I can only say sorry for what I did myself and I'm nobody to judge the deeds of my ancestors, I can only learn from them and that's it. But in turn I'm not expecting anyone to apologize for mistreatment of me or my people, if I don't like something I better grow up a pair and go out fix it.

Doesn't sounds like reassuring much, I know :D But I think in general people tend to over-complicate the 'Russian problem'.

But we cant plan on wishful thinking, as long as the geopolitical thinking is the zero-sum game, that many use to describe the Russian mentality, nothing will change.
If Russians think that it is stupid to not use a position of power for their own good, in foreign and internal politics, they will be isolated and fall in the end.
Dont mean to lecture and much of this applies to many in Europe but the others usually can only harm themselves.

Finland has all to gain from a friendly Russia, for example we need to get our energy independence soon fixed.
The Russian nuclear plants are the best solution with cost and quality, the whole St.Petersburg area could be an economical motor for this part of Europe, the Arctic route and many more possibilities that benefit all parties.

All this potential is in danger for some people with big ego drawing maps of world conquest.

[Äijä]

Have to ask thyself: 'What's the gain for Russia in ousting Yanuk and bringing these new people to power?'

To create chaos and opportunity to step in and bring peace? If you think this is paranoid you should not apply for the FSB.

[Sarmatian]

But we cant plan on wishful thinking, as long as the geopolitical thinking is the zero-sum game, that many use to describe the Russian mentality, nothing will change.
If Russians think that it is stupid to not use a position of power for their own good, in foreign and internal politics, they will be isolated and fall in the end.
Dont mean to lecture and much of this applies to many in Europe but the others usually can only harm themselves.

Finland has all to gain from a friendly Russia, for example we need to get our energy independence soon fixed.
The Russian nuclear plants are the best solution with cost and quality, the whole St.Petersburg area could be an economical motor for this part of Europe, the Arctic route and many more possibilities that benefit all parties.

All this potential is in danger for some people with big ego drawing maps of world conquest.

Luckily for all of us those with small di... err with big ego drawing maps of world conquest are only advisers and not a decision makers. I don't see a reason why would Finland present a big issue in Russian geopolitics, it has US, EU, China and the whole lot of Middle East to deal with. Rather a potentially important partner in development of St.Petersburg and Karelia region.

[Sarmatian]

To create chaos and opportunity to step in and bring peace? If you think this is paranoid you should not apply for the FSB.

The problem is not that simple, read this http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?117522-Ukrainian-nationalism-its-roots-and-nature

[Äijä]

Luckily for all of us those with small di... err with big ego drawing maps of world conquest are only advisers and not a decision makers. I don't see a reason why would Finland present a big issue in Russian geopolitics, it has US, EU, China and the whole lot of Middle East to deal with. Rather a potentially important partner in development of St.Petersburg and Karelia region.

Yet we have Russian politicians and generals giving threats and instructions what Finland should do in foreign policy matters or business, the thinking that Finland is there to benefit Russia.
Right policy would be to build trust and support your neighbours as independent actors, that would pay back when Russia needs a friend, but that is maybe a sign of weakness in their mentality.

[Äijä]

The problem is not that simple, read this http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?117522-Ukrainian-nationalism-its-roots-and-nature

I know they have loonies on that side, that does not make away the massive FSB operation going on in Ukraine.
Supporting this type of groups is not totally out of Russian interest if there is an real democratic opposition that could take Ukraine out from Kremls orbit.
Putin and his colleagues know how to play this game, this is how the cold war was fought.

[Hweinlant]

To create chaos and opportunity to step in and bring peace? If you think this is paranoid you should not apply for the FSB.

Yep, there was also sorts of rumours about shooters. One was that they were specifically "imported" from Russia to do the dirty work.

[Sarmatian]

Yet we have Russian politicians and generals giving threats and instructions what Finland should do in foreign policy matters or business, the thinking that Finland is there to benefit Russia.
Right policy would be to build trust and support your neighbours as independent actors, that would pay back when Russia needs a friend, but that is maybe a sign of weakness in their mentality.

Really? I'm not following Russian political scene much so didn't know that. I guess since generals are normally older people we can relate them to 'born in USSR' part of the country with all subsequent brain setup. Will have to wait until all these dinosaurs die out.

But the way I see it as long as Putin or Putin-like figure in charge all this talk is just to maintain face, those generals won't dare to fart without higher permission.

[Sarmatian]

Yep, there was also sorts of rumours about shooters. One was that they were specifically "imported" from Russia to do the dirty work.

Which doesn't automatically means they work for Putin. You can find any sort of mercenaries in Russia who will do any dirty job for the right price.

[Äijä]

Really? I'm not following Russian political scene much so didn't know that. I guess since generals are normally older people we can relate them to 'born in USSR' part of the country with all subsequent brain setup. Will have to wait until all these dinosaurs die out.

But the way I see it as long as Putin or Putin-like figure in charge all this talk is just to maintain face, those generals won't dare to fart without higher permission.

Dugin wrote a book that is their bible in officers schools I dont have high hopes things will get better without a new revolution in Russia.
I thought Putin was a better solution than many but he seems to drift to the camp of the extreme thinkers, just waiting who will follow him in power.

[IceSwan]

Muscovite eternal peace is the same that muslims have in mind, it comes from domination, extermination and conquest.
ukko, be honest please. if you not from finland then change info in your profile. trolling makes the group's iq lower.
nobody is going to exterminate you, but if oneday you get caught on the russian-finnish border, waving the flag and shouting "free karelia" then you will be forced to eat whole box of lemons by locals

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8235/8585454854_91cf25ed70_z.jpg

[Äijä]

ukko, be honest please. if you not from finland then change info in your profile. trolling makes the group's iq lower.
nobody is going to exterminate you, but if oneday you get caught on the russian-finnish border, waving the flag and shouting "free karelia" then you will be forced to eat whole box of lemons by locals

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8235/8585454854_91cf25ed70_z.jpg

Go offer them to the Russians waving flags in Ukraine.

[RussiaPrussia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pN9u7zur2I

[IceSwan]

Go offer them to the Russians waving flags in Ukraine.
sorry Ukko

[Petros Houhoulis]

just a idle gossip of ill-wishers
for Ukko almost all that's related to russland is bad or must be criticized :yo:

You should excuse him, he is a Finn. You've screwed them enough already...

[Swearengen]

Today we have a situation where all the nationalistic attitudes of Ukraine coming from regions that up to 20th century used to be parts of Austria-Hungary and Poland. They have little in common with Ukraine proper which used to be part of Russian Empire for centuries and where people are largerly indifferent or pro-Russian. The roots of this hatred towards Russia come from one simple fact: all those people are Greek-Catholics. The Bandera himself and his mother were children of Catholic priests which is the one and only reason for all their anti-Russian sentiments. It was the only source of his emotional drive which he later transformed using national-socialist ideology to be in line with other anti-Russians.

What is Ukraine proper? From 1352 to 1772, this is what Ukraine looked like. It was part of the Polish empire.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Rzeczpospolita2nar.png

Galicia was only part of Austria-Hungary from 1772 until 1918. In other words, since 1352, it has been part of the same country as central Ukraine for 548/662 years, or 83% of the time.

On the other hand, eastern Ukraine has been joined with central Ukraine only since 1772. Since 1352, the two territories have been part of the same country for 242/662 years, or 37% of the time.

Furthermore, only a very small portion of galicians are catholic. The overwhelming majority are orthodox christians.

What really happened is that, following the Partition of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, Ukraine was split between two empires that both wanted new territory, Russia and Austria-Hungary. The territories were united when they both became part of the Ukrainian SSR in the Soviet Union.

[Sarmatian]

What is Ukraine proper? From 1352 to 1772, this is what Ukraine looked like. It was part of the Polish empire.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Rzeczpospolita2nar.png

Wrong. First of all it was called Polish Kingdom, not empire.

And your map is wrong, Zaporozhian Sich has never been a part of Poland. They were allies at some instances like specific joint campaigns against Tatars and Turks but Sich has maintained its independence all the way until its joined Russian Empire. Some Cossacks joined Polish army and some Cossack leaders were even given noble titles by Polish kings but from that point they were not Cossacks anymore and had no say on affairs of Sich.

And that independent Cossack's entity is what I call Ukraine proper. It's started like this

http://newkubanmuseum.com/Media/Default/MapsFlagsGallery/Ukrainian_Cossack_state_Zaporizhian_Host_1649_1653 .jpg

But then over 100 years was reduced to this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/007_Ukrainian_Cossack_Hetmanate_and_Russian_Empire _1751.jpg

Note the significant territorial changes happened at the western side as Poland-Lithuania pushed quite aggressively. As a natural result Cossacks were seeking alliance with Russian Empire.

[Swearengen]

That Cossack state apparently only existed with those borders for 4 years. It is inaccurate to state that the cossack state was the origin of Ukraine. As a Russian you have a biased view of what 'Ukraine proper' is.

This is what Poland looked like from 1772 until the 1900s. It was split up between Prussia/Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia.

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist151/maps_for_quizI/Europe%201900%20Large.PNG

Are you saying that someone from Warsaw cannot feel a connection to someone born in Austrian Krakow? The partition of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth paid no attention to ethnic groups or what was or wasn't Poland proper, Ukraine proper, etc.

[Sarmatian]

That Cossack state apparently only existed with those borders for 4 years. It is inaccurate to state that the cossack state was the origin of Ukraine. As a Russian you have a biased view of what 'Ukraine proper' is.

The Cossack state as a Hetmanate (as unified under one ruler) might only existed for 4 years but independent Cossack's territory like Zaporozhian Sich existed for a couple of centuries at least.


This is what Poland looked like from 1772 until the 1900s. It was split up between Prussia/Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia.



Are you saying that someone from Warsaw cannot feel a connection to someone born in Austrian Krakow? The partition of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth paid no attention to ethnic groups or what was or wasn't Poland proper, Ukraine proper, etc.

I'm not sure what are you trying to prove here? I've never questioned ethnic connection between Poles from different areas of Poland. But I'm sure there is next to no connection between someone from Lviv and someone from Kharkov, those two places had very different history.

Also on the Catholics of Galicia. I don't know if they are majority or not, all I see is they are mostly loudmouths who keep popping up here and there with their extremist anti-Russian attitudes. Even if they are few they still are noisy and annoying.

[Swearengen]

The Cossack state as a Hetmanate (as unified under one ruler) might only existed for 4 years but independent Cossack's territory like Zaporozhian Sich existed for a couple of centuries at least.



I'm not sure what are you trying to prove here? I've never questioned ethnic connection between Poles from different areas of Poland. But I'm sure there is next to no connection between someone from Lviv and someone from Kharkov, those two places had very different history.

Also on the Catholics of Galicia. I don't know if they are majority or not, all I see is they are mostly loudmouths who keep popping up here and there with their extremist anti-Russian attitudes. Even if they are few they still are noisy and annoying.

You said that, since Bandera was born in Austria-Hungary and not Russia, that he is not Ukrainian.

So I asked whether the same standard can be applied to someone born in what used to be Austrian Poland.

It is clear that different regions of Ukraine have different histories as is the case with Poland and many other european countries. However, they also share a lot of history. To label a part with a certain history as 'Ukraine proper' and argue that others are less Ukrainian is wrong.

[glass]

Galicia-Volynia principality was seprated from the rest lands because of religion, cathlocisim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Galicia%E2%80%93Volhynia

[Sarmatian]

You said that, since Bandera was born in Austria-Hungary and not Russia, that he is not Ukrainian.

So I asked whether the same standard can be applied to someone born in what used to be Austrian Poland.

It is clear that different regions of Ukraine have different histories as is the case with Poland and many other european countries. However, they also share a lot of history. To label a part with a certain history as 'Ukraine proper' and argue that others are less Ukrainian is wrong.

The reasons are largely irrelevant. The fact of today is a person from Lviv and a person from Kharkov have very little in common culturally. The differeces are so severe that these two groups can't peacefully coexist in one administrative entity unless there is a strong dictator in Kiev who can suppress both parts.

[Aunt Hilda]

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1920473_1379031765704550_38690706_n.jpg

[Swearengen]

hmmm well I guess I wasn't entirely correct about what I previously said. Lviv oblast is majority catholic. Lviv city is 57% catholic. I'm not sure about the rest of the oblast.

http://intranet.tdmu.edu.ua/data/kafedra/internal/in_mow/classes_stud/uk/nurse/and/ptn/3r/%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D1%96%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%8C%D 0%BA%D0%B0%20%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0/3.%20Ukraine.files/image011.gif

[Longbowman]

The reasons are largely irrelevant. The fact of today is a person from Lviv and a person from Kharkov have very little in common culturally. The differeces are so severe that these two groups can't peacefully coexist in one administrative entity unless there is a strong dictator in Kiev who can suppress both parts.

I agree with Swearengen, your view, as a Russian, has been warped. Even if this were true it would mean the natural course of action would be to split the nation, rather than actual install a dictator.

[Windischer]

Galicia was only part of Austria-Hungary from 1772 until 1918. In other words, since 1352, it has been part of the same country as central Ukraine for 548/662 years, or 83% of the time.

not true. in 14th century, galicia and western part of volhynia became part of the polish crown, while eastern portion of volhynia together with southern ruthenian lands became part of grand duchy of lithuania.
lithuanian southern peripheries (= ukrajina) became part of polish crown after union of lublin in 1569.

[Sarmatian]

I agree with Swearengen, your view, as a Russian, has been warped. Even if this were true it would mean the natural course of action would be to split the nation, rather than actual install a dictator.

That's exactly the idea I have in mind. The question is who will have to go. Only one is certain: Uzhgorod to join their Rusyn brothers in Slovakia. After that we have 3 parts: nationalistic West (extremely anti-Russian and basically anti-everything), moderate Center (potentially can put up with everyone) and pro-Russian East (can live with the Center but can't stand West).

PS And Crimea is basically Russian already.

[Longbowman]

That's exactly the idea I have in mind. The question is who will have to go. Only one is certain: Uzhgorod to join their Rusyn brothers in Slovakia. After that we have 3 parts: nationalistic West (extremely anti-Russian and basically anti-everything), moderate Center (potentially can put up with everyone) and pro-Russian East (can live with the Center but can't stand West)

Don't fool yourself, Kiev isn't going anywhere. The divide is very, very clear.

However, now Crimea has left/will leave, the pro-Western half may be able to exert authority on the pro-Russian half.

We'll see what happens.

[Sarmatian]

Don't fool yourself, Kiev isn't going anywhere. The divide is very, very clear.

However, now Crimea has left/will leave, the pro-Western half may be able to exert authority on the pro-Russian half.

We'll see what happens.

Kiev can live happy with East if Galicia will leave.

[Longbowman]

Kiev can live happy with East if Galicia will leave.

Like I said, don't fool yourself.

[Sarmatian]

Like I said, don't fool yourself.

I'm not. I know very well that Galicia is not very popular in Kiev, their aggressive attitude annoying people for many years.

[Ultra]

ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA!

[Longbowman]

I'm not. I know very well that Galicia is not very popular in Kiev, their aggressive attitude annoying people for many years.

Kiev, in the hands of the demonstrators; Kiev that always votes with the West and North; Kiev, the Ukrainian capital.

Without Kiev, this would be a minor regional insurrection in the tiny Catholic part of Ukraine.

You're in denial, buddy.

[Longbowman]

ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA!

Articulacy typical of Putin's drum-beaters :laugh:

[Ultra]

Articulacy typical of Putin's drum-beaters :laugh:
:heh:

[McCauley]

Lol at everyone speculating on exactly how this whole thing is going to turn out, as if you're world leaders trying to decide on the best course of action.

[Longbowman]

Lol at everyone speculating on exactly how this whole thing is going to turn out, as if you're world leaders trying to decide on the best course of action.

True, this is just a bit of fun. The Elders have long since decided.

[Yaroslav]

Ironically, the Jews are using these guys, just as they use al-Qaeda, but then will back-stab them. These guys will deserve what they get for their dealings with the Jew.

[Sarmatian]

Kiev, in the hands of the demonstrators; Kiev that always votes with the West and North; Kiev, the Ukrainian capital.

Without Kiev, this would be a minor regional insurrection in the tiny Catholic part of Ukraine.

You're in denial, buddy.

Kiev is in the hands of demonstrators not because it's with the West but because people had enough of corrupt kleptocratic thief. West just used the opportunity to fill the vacant places in power. Since average protesters had little guts to do actual fighting they accepted the presence of Western radicals. But when I was in Kiev last year I've never seen any sympathy from locals towards West, people were mostly irritated about it.

As for votes Kiev was mostly somewhere in between, it has never had votes distribution as extreme as West. Which is why I'm saying it can live with the East and be happy.

[Longbowman]

Kiev is in the hands of demonstrators not because it's with the West but because people had enough of corrupt kleptocratic thief. West just used the opportunity to fill the vacant places in power. Since average protesters had little guts to do actual fighting they accepted the presence of Western radicals. But when I was in Kiev last year I've never seen any sympathy from locals towards West, people were mostly irritated about it.

As for votes Kiev was mostly somewhere in between, it has never had votes distribution as extreme as West. Which is why I'm saying it can live with the East and be happy.

Kiev is slightly more pro-Russian than the area it's in, due to economic migration, and sure, no-where's as pro-Euro as the West, but nope, you're wrong, bro. Sorry. Even at the peak of Yanukovych's popularity:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/%D0%94%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%82%D1%83% D1%80_2010_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D 0%B3%D0%B0%D1%85-en.png

[Sarmatian]

...no-where's as pro-Euro as the West...

So you think the West is pro-Euro? Just LOL... I bet you'd call them Freedom Fighters :laugh:

[Trun]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/%D0%94%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%82%D1%83% D1%80_2010_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D 0%B3%D0%B0%D1%85-en.png

I can't believe Bulgarians in Ukraine are such Russian asslickers.

[blogen]

I can't believe Bulgarians in Ukraine are such Russian asslickers.

All of the ethnic minorities in Ukraine support the Russians, except the lunatic Crimean Tatars. The Ukrainian nationalism is a plague.

[Äijä]

All of the ethnic minorities in Ukraine support the Russians, except the lunatic Crimean Tatars. The Ukrainian nationalism is a plague.

Do you want Hungary to be part of the Eurasian Empire?

[blogen]

Do you want Hungary to be part of the Eurasian Empire?

We are too western to this, but I do not want the EU and gay-liberal-democratic Western shit.

[Äijä]

We are too western to this, but I do not want the EU and gay-liberal-democratic Western shit.

If the Empire comes Hungary will be their bitch.

[blogen]

If the Empire comes Hungary will be their bitch.

I do not like Russia, a hypercorrupt and oligarchic state. From different reasons, but not better than the West. There is a considerable difference on the other hand: Russia is not disgusting.

[Äijä]

I do not like Russia, a hypercorrupt and oligarchic state. From different reasons, but not better than the West. There is a considerable difference on the other hand: Russia is not disgusting.

It will be lethal.

[wvwvw]

It has been claimed that the role of fascists in the demonstrations has been exaggerated by Russian propaganda to justify Vladimir Putin’s manoeuvres in Crimea. The reality is alarming enough to need no exaggeration. Activists report that the far right made up around a third of the protesters, but they were decisive in armed confrontations with the police.

The “demonstrators” with the metal barricades, bullet proof vest, army helmets, weapons, shield and masks were very well organized and trained.

Fascist gangs now patrol the streets. But they are also in Kiev’s corridors of power. The far right Svoboda party, whose leader has denounced the “criminal activities” of “organised Jewry” and which was condemned by the European parliament for its “racist and antisemitic views”, has five ministerial posts in the new government, including deputy prime minister and prosecutor general. The leader of the even more extreme Right Sector, at the heart of the street violence, is now Ukraine’s deputy national security chief.


A Monster Reawakens: The Rise of Ukrainian Fascism
A precedent the West will live to regret

by Justin Raimondo, March 05, 2014
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With the eyes of the world fixed on Russia’s invasion of Crimea and the prospect of a wider war engulfing all Ukraine, our attention has been diverted from what may be the most significant aspect of this crisis: the ascension of a genuinely fascist mass movement into the corridors of power.

Our "mainstream" media shrugs off what it describes as the presence of "a few ultra-nationalists" at the Kiev protests, but this is nonsense: it is far more than a few. Indeed, the activists of the two main fascist parties in Ukraine – Svoboda and "Right Sector" – provided the muscle the insurrectionists needed to take over government buildings in Kiev and across western Ukraine.

Svoboda ("Freedom") was founded in 1991 as the Social National Party of Ukraine. The party idolizes Stepan Bandera, whose followers fought on the side of the Nazis during World War II against the Red Army and Ukrainian communist militias. Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) had direct support from the Germans: Hitler wanted them to police Ukraine after the Germans took it, and the OUN organized volunteer militias that actively participated in the Holocaust. "The Jews of the Soviet Union," declared the Banderists, "are the most loyal supporters of the Bolshevik Regime and the vanguard of Muscovite imperialism in the Ukraine." When the Germans took Lvov in the summer of 1941, the Banderists sent a message to Lvov’s Jews in the form of a pamphlet which said: "We will lay your heads at Hitler’s feet"! Which they did; the OUN worked with the SS to round up and slaughter 4,000 of the city’s Jews. Their weapons of choice: everything from guns to metal poles.

When Viktor Yushchenko, during his disastrous tenure as President of Ukraine, bestowed on Bandera the posthumous title of "Hero of Ukraine," the European Parliament formally protested: they were ignored.

Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok, now a top official of the Ukrainian Parliament, is an unrepentant anti-Semite. In the summer of 2004, he made a speech to his followers at the gravesite of a Banderist commander in which he declared: "You are the ones that the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine fears most." His peroration also made reference to "Kikes" as prominent among those the Banderists fought. Tyahnybok was expelled from Parliament for his remarks, but the "revolution" has installed him back in his seat – and more powerful than ever.

He has plenty of company. Svoboda activists, who already held seats in Parliament, hold no less than eight top Cabinet positions:

Ihor Tenyukh – interim defense minister and a member of Svoboda’s political council. Formerly commander of Ukraine’s navy, in 2008, during Russia’s war with Georgia, he ordered Ukrainian warships to block the entrance of the Russian Navy to the bay of Sevastopol.

Andriy Parubiy – National Security Council chief, co-founded Svoboda back when it was the “Social National” (ahem!) party.

Dmytro Yarosh – deputy head of the National Security Council, i.e. the police, and the founder-leader of "Right Sector," a militant neo-Nazi paramilitary group that took charge of security in the Maiden.

Oleh Makhnitsky – Svoboda member of parliament, is prosecutor-general.

Oleksandr Sych – Svoboda parliamentarian and the party’s chief ideologist, is deputy prime minister for economic affairs.

Serhiy Kvit – a leading member of Svoboda, is to head up the Education Ministry.

Andriy Moknyk – the new Minister of Ecology, has been Svoboda’s envoy to other European fascist parties. Last year, he met with representatives of Italy’s violent neo-fascist gang, Forza Nuovo.

Ihor Shvaika – agro-oligarch and a member of Svoboda, has been appointed Minister of Agriculture. One of the richest men in the country, his massive investments in agriculture would seem to indicate a slight conflict of interest.

For the first time since 1933, the followers of a movement that valorizes Adolf Hitler and preaches anti-Semitism has entered a European government. The German Nazis, too, were part of a "coalition" government, the other members of which thought they could contain or even “tame” them and prevent a Communist takeover. They were tragically wrong – and the United States and its European allies are taking the same road in backing Hitler’s heirs in Ukraine.

Of course the majority of the government’s supporters are hardly hardcore neo-Nazis: but that isn’t necessary to make this a precedent the West will live to regret. The presence of Svoboda and "Right Sector" legitimizes these movements, and not only in Ukraine. Germany has periodically sought to ban the neo-Nazi National Democratic Party, and the British have taken legal measures against the British National Party: will they now grant the Ukrainian brothers of these so-called hate groups diplomatic recognition and pledges of political and even military support?

What’s interesting about the specific appointments listed above is the prominence of "Right Sector" leader Dmytro Yarosh in the key position of deputy chief of the national police. The "Right Sector" organization came out of the merger of several ultra-nationalist and openly neo-Nazi grouplets, including "Trident," the Ukrainian National Assembly-Ukrainian National Defense Force, "White Hammer," and "Patriots of Ukraine." Yorash boasted at the height of the protests that his group had amassed a large weapons cache, and since they already had the guns it was inevitable they would form the nucleus of the reconstituted police force. With the group’s high profile, and its celebrated status as "heroes of the revolution," Yorash’s stormtroopers – who wear the red-and-black insignia of the Banderists –will be charged with suppressing anti-government "disturbances" and hunting down "traitors." Perhaps they’ll throw in a little queer-bashing as well: the nationalists hate gays as well as Jews and all Russian-speakers.

Victoria Nuland thought she could keep Svoboda and "Right Sector" out of the government, but she hasn’t done a very good job so far. And with elections scheduled for May 5, the nationalists are well positioned to take a good chunk of the vote. Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the State Department’s favored candidate, is a bespectacled technocrat notably lacking in the charisma department. Tyahnybok , on the other hand, is a natural demagogue.

No matter how many US taxpayer dollars flow into the coffers of the State Department’s Ukrainian sock puppets between now and May 25, all the money in the world may not be able to contain the forces our interventionists have loosened on the world. The news that the leader of "Right Sector" has called on none other than al-Qaeda to help Ukraine in its battle against Russia is an indication of just what sort of demons we have unleashed – this time.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/03/04/a-monster-reawakens-the-rise-of-ukrainian-fascism/

[Longbowman]

So you think the West is pro-Euro? Just LOL... I bet you'd call them Freedom Fighters :laugh:

I bet you'd call them terrorists. Just lol.

Pro-Western is probably a better term. But yes.

[bimo]

I can't believe Bulgarians in Ukraine are such Russian asslickers.

i don't like to see them west asslickers too , your friends from timoshenko party don't want them to talk in bulgarians

[Trun]

i don't like to see them west asslickers too , your friends from timoshenko party don't want them to talk in bulgarians

Actually the language 40% of them speak as mother tongue is Russian, not Ukrainian. I doubt Timoshenko taught them.