Europe has many countries with Russian minorities.

[Annihilus]

If it wasn't for NATO a lot of them would be experiencing the same as Ukraine. Just for all you haters out there.

[Crn Volk]

Not really. Kazakhstan has a large Russian population for example and is not a member of NATO.

[Annihilus]

Not really. Kazakhstan has a large Russian population for example and is not a member of NATO.

That is because there is a dictator in power almost 20 yrs:picard1:

[Methmatician]

What? Explain. Russia wouldn't invade Estonia just to 'protect' the Russian minority. Estonia is of no value to Russia.

[RussiaPrussia]

That is because there is a dictator in power almost 20 yrs:picard1:

like in turkey

[Crn Volk]

That is because there is a dictator in power almost 20 yrs:picard1:

That is beside your original point

[Äijä]

What? Explain. Russia wouldn't invade Estonia just to 'protect' the Russian minority. Estonia is of no value to Russia.

Yet Russia has for centuries wanted to hold Baltic.

[Acquisitor]

The official reason why Ukraine was entered is clearly bullshit. Its not about the Russian population, its about Ukraine :) come on

[zhaoyun]

It doesn't take a genius to understand why Russia took the Crimea, because it is strategically important, the opportunity was perfect, and the population there would not be resistant. All the factors provided an easy in for Russia. It's really that simple.

[Äijä]

It doesn't take a genius to understand why Russia took the Crimea, because it is strategically important, the opportunity was perfect, and the population there would not be resistant. All the factors provided an easy in for Russia. It's really that simple.

Yet in the long term this can result in the final collapse of Russia as a great power, if Europe and the Anglosphere turn against it.
Accepting status as tier two power and need for real reform would go a long way avoiding this.

If not opposed, in theory, it could become an Eurasian superstate but that will only come trough conflict.

[zhaoyun]

Ukko - It's still too early to say. If Russia tries to annex a greater portion of the Ukraine, then I think it would definitely spell long term conflict. But if Russia uses the precedent of Kosovo, and allows the Crimea to first achieve autonomy, then vote on legislation allowing it to be united with Russia, it could argue the legal basis of this, and although it will continue to be a sore point between Russia and the West, the reality is that the West will likely just passively accept the situation as the result would be reflective of the democratic sentiment of the Crimeans and that much cannot be argued.

[Empecinado]

Fuck NATO. De Gaulle and Franco were right about it.

[Petros Houhoulis]

If it wasn't for NATO a lot of them would be experiencing the same as Ukraine. Just for all you haters out there.

Totally out of context. The war is not between Europe and Russia, but between the Yankees and Russia. Europe doesn't give shit - except for some former Commie states - and it won't put any meaningful sanctions to Russia...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Yet in the long term this can result in the final collapse of Russia as a great power, if Europe and the Anglosphere turn against it.
Accepting status as tier two power and need for real reform would go a long way avoiding this.

If not opposed, in theory, it could become an Eurasian superstate but that will only come trough conflict.

If...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/ukraine-crisis-britain-sanctions-idUKL6N0M12NV20140304


Britain says leaked document no guide to possible Russian sanctions

LONDON, March 4Tue Mar 4, 2014 12:51pm GMT

(Reuters) - Britain said on Tuesday it regretted the leak of a document which indicated that London opposed trade sanctions on Russia (http://uk.reuters.com/places/russia) and cautioned that the document should not be seen as any guide to British policy on the response to the crisis in Ukraine.
The official document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Prime Minister David Cameron's Downing Street residence on Monday, indicated Britain opposes trade sanctions and any move to impose restrictions on Russian access to London.
If it were an accurate reflection of British policy, the document illustrates the difficulties Western powers face in agreeing on sanctions that could deter President Vladimir Putin from further action in Ukraine.
"Any such photographing or making any documents available for photographing is absolutely regrettable and should not happen," Foreign Secretary William Hague told parliament.





"Anything that is written in one document being carried by one official is not necessarily any guide to the decisions that will be made by Her Majesty's government and our options remain very much open on this subject."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-26426969


Ukraine: UK rules out Russia trade curbs?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73344000/jpg/_73344509_document.jpgThe document was captured on camera as an official walked along Downing Street
The government will not curb trade with Russia or close London's financial centre to Russians as part of any possible package of sanctions against Moscow, according to an official document.
The document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Downing Street, says that "the UK should not support for now trade sanctions or close London's financial centre to Russians", while it confirms that ministers ARE considering - along with other EU countries - visa restrictions and travel bans on key Russian figures.
It also says that ministers should "discourage any discussion (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations" and support "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas" and oil supplies "if Russia cuts them off".
Until now ministers have made no specific threats of action against Russia and Downing Street have stressed the need to keep open the possibility of de-escalating the crisis.
The prime minister said this afternoon that Russia would face "diplomatic, political, economic and other pressures" to send a "clear message" about its actions in Ukraine.
'Significant costs'The reason for this form of words is clear. Public statements should for now be kept "generic", the document says, whereas specific threats should be "contingent and used for private messaging".
This is in stark contrast to the specific hardline threats made by US Secretary of State John Kerry yesterday.
One senior government source told me: "We prefer to speak softly and carry a big stick."
They stressed that European countries were pursuing a deliberate policy of showing to Russia that de-escalation was still possible whilst being clear that "significant costs" would follow if Moscow does not seek a peaceful conclusion to its dispute with Ukraine.
I understand that the prime minister hopes to speak to Germany's Chancellor Merkel tonight. The German attitude is regarded as crucial since they are traditionally in favour of a less confrontational approach to Russia and are heavily dependent on Russian gas and oil.
Downing Street is refusing to comment on a secret document though I understand that other scenarios were considered at a meeting of the National Security Council today

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572544/Files-Britain-NOT-support-military-action-against-Russia.html


Revealed in error, the official files that show Britain will NOT support military action against Russia



Cameron's adviser Hugh Powell left file on display to photographers
Document revealed Britain will not impose sanctions against Russia
Will not support military action against the country either, it showed

Also disclosed Russian investors will not be frozen out of City of London
Hague and Cameron claimed today they would 'get tough' with Russia


By TIM SHIPMAN (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Tim+Shipman)
PUBLISHED: 23:30 GMT, 3 March 2014 | UPDATED: 15:24 GMT, 4 March 2014
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(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572544/Files-Britain-NOT-support-military-action-against-Russia.html#comments)

Britain will not impose sanctions or support military action against Russia, according to a briefing paper that was revealed in error yesterday.
The document became public when one of David Cameron’s advisers left it on display to press photographers before a Downing Street meeting.
The blunder by Hugh Powell, who is deputy national security adviser, also shows that the Government has no plans to freeze Russian investors out of the City of London.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/article-2572544-1C034BA200000578-217_634x572.jpgA document (pictured) that stated Britain will not impose sanctions on Russia or support military action was revealed by accident

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/article-2572544-1C008FBE00000578-524_634x720.jpgThe document was revealed by deputy national security adviser Hugh Powell to photographers as he walked past No10 to attend a meeting about the crisis in Ukraine

Instead, the briefing paper recommends that the UN should take the lead and possibly send monitors to Ukraine.
The document says: ‘UK should not support for now, trade sanctions ... or close London’s financial centre to Russians.’

More...



Putin watches war games as Russia cranks up the tension with Ukraine whose leaders claim their navy is threatened with being seized (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571309/Surrender-3am-attack-Russian-naval-commander-issues-deadline-Ukrainian-troops-Crimea.html)
Ukraine's call to arms: Former prime minister Tymoshenko issues thinly-veiled plea to the West to take military action against Russia (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571653/Europes-peace-risk-World-leaders-say-Russian-invasion-Ukraine-spiral-biggest-international-crisis-Cold-War.html)


It also says that Britain should ‘discourage any discussions (eg at Nato) of emergency military preparations’.

Downing Street sources confirmed that the briefing document is official policy.


HOW WE'LL RAMP UP DIPLOMATIC PRESSURE

The leaked document reveals details of the UK’s plans for raising pressure on Russia. Several key elements will interest the Kremlin:
WHAT IT SAYS
The papers show plans to break off relations with Russia through a series of international organisations. Clearly legible are references to the G8, EU-Russia formats and the NATO-Russia council and it says ‘visa restrictions/travel bans on key’ personnel.

WHAT IT MEANS
EU foreign ministers plan to suspend cooperation with Russia over the planned G8 summit in Sochi in June. The EU has suspended cooperation over visas.

WHAT IT SAYS
‘UK should not support for now, trade sanctions...or close London’s financial centre to Russians.’

WHAT IT MEANS
US Secretary of State John Kerry has threatened asset freezes on Russians in America. But Britain does not intend to follow suit, for fear of losing Russian investment.

WHAT IT SAYS
A section on Ukraine talks about a technical assistance package and mentions a ‘deep and comprehensive’ trade deal and ‘contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas supplies if Russia cuts them off’.

WHAT IT MEANS
The UK yesterday pledged £10million in aid to the Ukrainian government to help stabilise the country. EU ministers said they were keen to pursue a free trade agreement with Ukraine. No. 10 confirmed that the UK has urged EU officials to help Ukraine buy its energy elsewhere.

WHAT IT SAYS
Britain should back the ‘deployment of OSCE and/or UN (but not EU) monitors to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine’, ‘push UN Secretary General Ban to take the lead’, ‘accept a special European Council’ and ‘discourage any discussions (eg at Nato) of emergency military preparations’.

WHAT IT MEANS
Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe monitors began deploying to Ukraine last night.

A special EU summit will be held on Thursday. Effective ruling out of support for military action.




Ministers fear that imposing trade restrictions or somehow excluding Russians from the financial markets in London will hurt economic growth and deter foreign investment.

The capital is known as ‘Londongrad’ due to the number of millionaire Russian oligarchs based here. A senior figure said: ‘We’re trying to find ways of hurting Russia, not hurting ourselves.’

Mr Powell, who was at Eton with the Prime Minister, is the son of Margaret Thatcher’s chief foreign policy adviser Charles Powell and nephew of Tony Blair’s chief of staff Jonathan Powell.

The document undermined claims by Mr Cameron and William Hague that the UK was set to get tough with Russia.
Visiting the Ukrainian capital Kiev, the Foreign Secretary described the situation as the biggest crisis in Europe in the 21st century.

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague lays flowers in Ukraine

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/video-undefined-1BFF962E00000578-855_636x358.jpg





http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/article-2572544-1BFED67200000578-970_634x436.jpgDavid Cameron and William Hague - pictured meeting with Ukrainian Prime Minsiter Arseniy Yatsenyuk today - claimed the UK was set to get tough with Russia

He warned Russian president Vladimir Putin that he faces a ‘significant cost’ for taking control of the Ukrainian region.
After chairing the National Security Council meeting, Mr Cameron said a clear message needed to be ‘sent to the Russian government that continuing down this path of violating the sovereignty of another country will have costs and consequences’.
He added: ‘We shall have to bring to bear diplomatic, political, economic and other pressures.’
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/article-2572544-1C038F8F00000578-349_306x423.jpgUS secretary of state John Kerry threatened to deny Russians in America access to their money today

By contrast, US secretary of state John Kerry went much further, threatening to deny Russians in America access to their money. He said Mr Putin ‘may find himself with asset freezes on Russian business. American business may pull back, there may be a further tumble of the rouble’.
Last night EU foreign ministers, meeting in Brussels, agreed to suspend cooperation with Russia over the planned G8 summit in Mr Putin’s holiday home of Sochi in June.
The EU will also suspend cooperation on visas and they warned that ‘further sanctions’ may be imposed after an emergency summit on Thursday. A Downing Street spokesman refused to discuss the leak. ‘We never comment on security matters,’ he said.
Labour MP Simon Danczuk called for Mr Powell to resign, pointing out that Bob Quick – the former Scotland Yard head of counter-terrorism – was forced to quit in 2009 after a similar mistake.
He said: ‘It’s astonishing that the deputy national security adviser can’t keep sensitive documents like this private. It’s clearly a serious issue and needs to be addressed.’
Tory MP Douglas Carswell added: ‘I’m surprised to hear that Inspector Clouseau is working in Downing Street. We have literally shown all our cards.’
One Government official indicated that a reprimand was on the cards for Mr Powell.

[Windischer]

cmon, war spoils economy, none of the relevant ppl want war.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Yet in the long term this can result in the final collapse of Russia as a great power, if Europe and the Anglosphere turn against it.
Accepting status as tier two power and need for real reform would go a long way avoiding this.

It already completely collapsed as a great power. Unless they want to attack USA there is no reason to really care about having a navy. They are already attached directly to china, middle east AND europe so they are doing a lot over nothing. Kiev area has the real value, and its only value is as farmland.

[Äijä]

Ukko - It's still too early to say. If Russia tries to annex a greater portion of the Ukraine, then I think it would definitely spell long term conflict. But if Russia uses the precedent of Kosovo, and allows the Crimea to first achieve autonomy, then vote on legislation allowing it to be united with Russia, it could argue the legal basis of this, and although it will continue to be a sore point between Russia and the West, the reality is that the West will likely just passively accept the situation as the result would be reflective of the democratic sentiment of the Crimeans and that much cannot be argued.

I think most of the West will get new leaders in the next elections.

[Annihilus]

The official reason why Ukraine was entered is clearly bullshit. Its not about the Russian population, its about Ukraine :) come on

Yes, with krim being Russian, Ukraine can say gas in black sea goodbye

[Caismeachd]

It doesn't take a genius to understand why Russia took the Crimea, because it is strategically important, the opportunity was perfect, and the population there would not be resistant. All the factors provided an easy in for Russia. It's really that simple.

Yes. It's simply a soft (in terms of war) yet firm push to show that Russia has might and credibility compared to the EU and US. It's muscle flexing though it's been thought out in a calculated way unlike with US invasions the whole reason for the invasions is extremely undermined and ill thought out.