Could these Portuguese people as a group be Irish?

[Sikeliot]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BSXpCs112ZM/UgAUFLUZ5_I/AAAAAAAAD2A/zd7Gk4Ss-7I/s1600/Lu%25C3%25ADs+Garcia%252C+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8dDc1HhAwrA/UhtBU0LrNSI/AAAAAAAAEZo/tDe6zm7b7Sk/s1600/Bárbara+Norton+de+Matos2,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NCPKZWljmq8/UulffpM3dBI/AAAAAAAALmE/m8GySPn9fUY/s1600/S%25C3%25B3nia+Balac%25C3%25B3%252C+Portuguese_peo ple.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5pPj1rz3tLQ/UbnPOOyb51I/AAAAAAAABMw/cMg5Q09y--8/s1600/Susana+Mendes,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iNkPQGvqhko/UbEGKATNJyI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/59Cgo6e4zlY/s1600/Lúcia+Moniz,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Fn7yZyHWBaQ/UbEGlYaGi0I/AAAAAAAAA3o/S-GQR_IGnbo/s1600/Diana+Nicolau,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bwk-9JHHSX4/Uuk6pyv3u7I/AAAAAAAALkk/0kqYIYz8o5U/s1600/Paula+Lobo+Antunes,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zUAkEbFCjQE/UkSXNCtovuI/AAAAAAAAF18/FaGjJxqU5JM/s1600/Mariana+Pacheco,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HNOO9Hv1O1E/Us0-BzLjG_I/AAAAAAAAKI4/ma8tjgI3PDg/s1600/Mafalda+Pinto2,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-keBBww3ac24/UousJ0zdz6I/AAAAAAAAIbM/UvjDW92uUcM/s1600/Sofia+Arruda,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K-7f7g3T1fg/UnGKDVLFiwI/AAAAAAAAHuQ/zd4GvKGJB9Q/s1600/Andreia+Dinis,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qfz3mWl7Wq8/UiiCNeaIsHI/AAAAAAAAEnU/4XX6jOm25vo/s1600/Carlos+Malvarez,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OShEDfbc72I/UgAT5js9niI/AAAAAAAAD14/hF6HileKynE/s1600/Diogo+Costa+Reis%252C+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EiN6uaRXGkU/UimxzAlxuZI/AAAAAAAAEok/wla-zgOrCLs/s1600/Pedro+Rodil,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UjQw2SrFy68/UiiF4MdZLnI/AAAAAAAAEoU/W4TjBFPijAY/s1600/Diogo+Lopes,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I-eJKiHZnq4/Uhe7b7MdbhI/AAAAAAAAEVM/iObnr1Hr08A/s1600/Joaquim+de+Almeida,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R9n7jVo2JjY/UojPXDlnb5I/AAAAAAAAITM/rIJXrZ3cYvo/s1600/Joaquim+Nicolau,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KLwiHsmdZA4/UojPjy8IVFI/AAAAAAAAITk/rxLYetfZESg/s1600/Lu%C3%ADs+Lucas,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ry9LAIWqyBM/Uo_GwuKrkSI/AAAAAAAAIc8/dsUzEYhYR98/s1600/Orlando+Costa,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XPQS8iwageU/Uk3fQS3taoI/AAAAAAAAGY4/RXo-xKEeDe8/s1600/Vitor+Norte,+Portuguese_people.jpg

[Smeagol]

Yes, but a few would be atypical.

[Sikeliot]

Yes, but a few would be atypical.

So do they look "Northern European", or do they look pan-Western, and just happen to fit in both places?

[Tooting Carmen]

Most can, but numbers 5, 9, 11, 15 and the last one look distinctly Iberian (eyebrows and mouth give it away).

[Stormer99]

Pan Western. Would have an easier time fitting into Northwest Europe even than Central Europe.

[Tooting Carmen]

So do they look "Northern European", or do they look pan-Western, and just happen to fit in both places?

Probably more the latter.

[Smeagol]

So do they look "Northern European", or do they look pan-Western, and just happen to fit in both places?

A few look more North European, and as a whole they look pan-Western.

[Tooting Carmen]

A few look more North European, and as a whole they look pan-Western.

True.

[Sikeliot]

All of these people are common to Iberia especially the north and west, so I laugh at anyone who tells me that you don't find substantially more "Irish" and "British" types in Iberia than in Italy and Greece, although fewer than in France.

[Tooting Carmen]

All of these people are common to Iberia especially the north and west, so I laugh at anyone who tells me that you don't find substantially more "Irish" and "British" types in Iberia than in Italy and Greece, although fewer than in France.

Yes, but on the other hand you find more German-looking Italians and Polish-looking Greeks than Iberians who look either German or Polish...

[GrebluBro]

Most can, but numbers 5, 9, 11, 15 and the last one look distinctly Iberian (eyebrows and mouth give it away).

5 looks very Iberian..11 looks somewhat..I believe others pass as Irish

[Sikeliot]

Yes, but on the other hand you find more German-looking Italians and Polish-looking Greeks than Iberians who look either German or Polish...

No one doubts that though, everyone would admit it was true.
But for some reason people are particularly stubborn about the idea of Irish-looking Iberians, when it is equally true.

I'd also say there are more Irish-looking people in Iberia than there are German-looking people in Italy or Polish-looking people in Greece.

[mikeyup]

50% of portuguese people look typically south european, with some individuals looking exotic even for south european standards

the other 50% have a very strong pan western look

it's my opinion

[Sikeliot]

50% of portuguese people look typically south european, with some individuals looking exotic even for south european standards

the other 50% have a very strong pan western look

it's my opinion

So basically 50% of them look passable in Italy and Greece, and 50% of them look Irish?
:D

[Tooting Carmen]

50% of portuguese people look typically south european, with some individuals looking exotic even for south european standards

the other 50% have a very strong pan western look

it's my opinion

I'd say it is more of a ratio of 2 to 1 in my experience. 50/50 ratio is more true of Spaniards in fact.

[Tooting Carmen]

No one doubts that though, everyone would admit it was true.
But for some reason people are particularly stubborn about the idea of Irish-looking Iberians, when it is equally true.

I'd also say there are more Irish-looking people in Iberia than there are German-looking people in Italy or Polish-looking people in Greece.

Irish-looking Iberians certainly outnumber German-looking Southern Italians and Polish-looking Greeks, yes, but there are lots and lots of German-looking Northern Italians, not least because in some regions like South Tyrol many ARE ethnically German anyway.

[Sikeliot]

I'd say it is more of a ratio of 2 to 1 in my experience. 50/50 ratio is more true of Spaniards in fact.

I guess a compromise could be that 50% of southern Italians, to an untrained eye, generally Southern Euro and could be Spanish.. but then the other half of Spaniards look too Irish and the other half of southern Italians fit better in Cyprus or the Levant than in Spain.

I include Norman looking people as passable in Spain, btw, if you're wondering.

[Tooting Carmen]

To see what I mean about Spaniards versus Portuguese, compare these MPs from Madrid with those from Lisbon.

MADRID:
http://heterodoxia.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/angeles-alvarez.jpg http://www.lavozlibre.com/userfiles/image/27%20de%20octubre%20de%202009/caye%204.jpg http://www.elpais.com/imagenRecorte.php?img=8873.jpg&imgConf=EDIGITALES_250_par http://www.congreso.es/wc/htdocs/web/img/diputados/250_10.jpg http://www.congreso.es/wc/htdocs/web/img/diputados/84_8.jpg http://www.iucpuerto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Ascensi%C3%B3n-de-las-Heras-Ladera.jpg http://www.sueldospublicos.com/multimedia/images/59rosa_300.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pkTK-YHPaME/T976lcC7AVI/AAAAAAAAAQA/QCryiBHZOd8/s320/p03_PlenosMunicipales_01.jpg http://izquierda-unida.es/sites/default/files/elecciones/20N/candidaturas/Caridad.jpg?1322064125 http://digitalboadilla.com/wp-content/uploads/Carbo.jpg http://www.periodistadigital.com/imagenes/retratos/2010/01/26/irene-lozano_250x310.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000195443958/66c06401cd7e248d213c8a84b036d80b.jpeg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Ana_Mato2.jpg http://clasica.estrelladigital.es/espana/Carmen-Rodriguez-Flores_ESTIMA20120921_0049_8.jpg http://blogs.periodistadigital.com/imgs/20080204/salmones.jpg http://www.hispanidad.com/imagenes/Soraya%20S%C3%A1enz%20de%20Santamar%C3%ADa%202.jpg (Deputy Prime Minister)
http://espacioseuropeos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/elena-valenciano-psoe.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

LISBON:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gz7BQ-x0cNw/SwM3e6lf1DI/AAAAAAAACds/oQFW5IJI1G4/s1600/Ana+Drago.bmphttp://psdlisboa.net/admin/uploads/files/Deputados_-_Ana_Sofia_Bettencourt.jpg http://cdn.controlinveste.pt/storage/DN/2012/big/ng2004476.JPG http://cdn.controlinveste.pt/Storage/JN/2012/medium/ng2186678.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rfjnZv6HNxw/Um0Oaoh271I/AAAAAAAAAYM/ueq7EwZfVo4/s1600/HAzenha.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OW4xGAhQ3ZI/S9-HsAJ7c_I/AAAAAAAAC4c/-7Y0yvrV_tk/s1600/ines_medeiros.jpg http://lisboa.ps.pt/wp-content/uploads/inesdrummond.jpg http://imagens8.publico.pt/imagens.aspx/730448?tp=UH&db=IMAGENS http://www.cds.parlamento.pt/gp/images/stories/deputados/galria.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0xA000iEcKo/TjrIXi00nmI/AAAAAAAADq4/RCPdk9vzNP4/s1600/jaona+lopes.jpeg http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/N1H9O0i_KR4/hqdefault.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7134/6927883198_94c76ddd72_o.jpg http://imgs.sapo.pt/gfx/476097.gif http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MiD4vV2Hf-c/ThX8kVduVlI/AAAAAAAAGOI/ub4FLb5YHMM/s1600/Maria+Jos%25C3%25A9+Nogueira+Pinto.jpg http://www.segurancahumana.eu/data/res/e3/1671.jpghttp://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6vdyxo4OJ1r55b4w.jpg http://pagina.lisboa.cds.pt/gestor/ficheiros/lisboa/deputados/mor.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Paula_Teixeira_da_Cruz_(face).jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_O5NtdNR9GBo/TNu4kCGDJHI/AAAAAAAAEkM/7RooDq15QSA/s1600/rita_calv%25C3%25A1rio%2528BE%2529.jpg http://images.dinheirovivo.pt/ECO/File?dDocName=CIECO021295&fileName=A101-161786393147184645207605624.jpg&rendition=extra_wide&SID=99532

[Tooting Carmen]

LISBON:

http://www.cds.parlamento.pt/gp/images/stories/deputados/caeiro.jpg

[mikeyup]

I guess a compromise could be that 50% of southern Italians, to an untrained eye, generally Southern Euro and could be Spanish.. but then the other half of Spaniards look too Irish and the other half of southern Italians fit better in Cyprus or the Levant than in Spain.

I include Norman looking people as passable in Spain, btw, if you're wondering.

actually i take back what i said

25% could fit in ireland... the other 25 look plain iberian but maybe up to france (atlantid iberians)

and the other 50% south europe (gracile-med, berid)

[Mark]

You better hope Atlantic Islander doesn't see this thread. ;)

[Tooting Carmen]

actually i take back what i said

25% could fit in ireland... the other 25 look plain iberian but maybe up to france (atlantid iberians)

and the other 50% south europe (gracile-med, berid)

That's more like it I'd say.

[Sikeliot]

I know a Portuguese woman who married an Irishman with the surname McGreevy.. and her first name is fairly standard sounding so people assume she is Irish and that it is her real surname. She has dark hair, but light skin and freckles with blue eyes.

[Tooting Carmen]

I still maintain that more Iberians can pass easily in Greece than in the British Isles.

[Sikeliot]

I still maintain that more Iberians can pass easily in Greece than in the British Isles.

I don't deny that. I think that Iberians look more "northern" than other Southern Europeans though.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't deny that. I think that Iberians look more "northern" than other Southern Europeans though.

Except for Northern Italians.

[Sikeliot]

Except for Northern Italians.

It's about tied.

[Tooting Carmen]

It's about tied.

Between Spaniards and Northern Italians perhaps, but both definitely have more Northern-looking people than do the Portuguese.

[Sikeliot]

Between Spaniards and Northern Italians perhaps, but both definitely have more Northern-looking people than do the Portuguese.

Do you think there are more Irish-looking Portuguese, or Ukrainian-looking northern Greeks?

[Atlantic Islander]

Yes, but on the other hand you find more German-looking Italians and Polish-looking Greeks than Iberians who look either German or Polish...

No1curr about looking German or Polish... or Irish for that matter.

[Tooting Carmen]

Do you think there are more Irish-looking Portuguese, or Ukrainian-looking northern Greeks?

Not sure.

[Sikeliot]

Not sure.

People have said that Ukrainians can look Balkan, so it might be about even. I have not seen any who do, though.

[Tooting Carmen]

People have said that Ukrainians can look Balkan, so it might be about even. I have not seen any who do, though.

Well regardless, I regularly interpret for Portuguese people in my job, and most do stand out in Britain. For whatever reason, the Portuguese tend to have more distinctly Southern European (and occasionally even North African) phenotypes, and correspondingly fewer pan-Western and Northern European phenotypes than do Spaniards. (I know what I am talking about - I have visited both countries and met lots of people from both countries).

[Sikeliot]

Well regardless, I regularly interpret for Portuguese people in my job, and most do stand out in Britain. For whatever reason, the Portuguese tend to have more distinctly Southern European (and occasionally even North African) phenotypes, and correspondingly fewer pan-Western and Northern European phenotypes than do Spaniards. (I know what I am talking about - I have visited both countries and met lots of people from both countries).

What percentage of Spanish do you think would;

1) Pass as Irish even if not typical
2) Look typically Irish
3) Pass as South Italian even if not typical
4) Look typically South Italian

?

And yes, Portuguese look more North African at times than Spaniards do.

[Tooting Carmen]

What percentage of Spanish do you think would;

1) Pass as Irish even if not typical
2) Look typically Irish
3) Pass as South Italian even if not typical
4) Look typically South Italian


Around 30-40% of Spaniards could pass in the British Isles (either as typical or atypical), probably a similar percentage could in Southern Italy (again either as typical or atypical), while the remaining 20-30% or so look distinctly Iberian.

[Sikeliot]

Around 30-40% of Spaniards could pass in the British Isles (either as typical or atypical), probably a similar percentage could in Southern Italy (again either as typical or atypical), while the remaining 20-30% or so look distinctly Iberian.

I'd say the difference for Portugal is the "distinctly Iberian" look is more numerous, and the other two less.

[Tooting Carmen]

I'd say the difference for Portugal is the "distinctly Iberian" look is more numerous, and the other two less.

Not quite - the distinctly Iberian look is more numerous, the Northern/pan-Western types are fewer and the percentage who look pan-Southern European is about the same as in Spain or maybe even a bit higher.

[Sikeliot]

Not quite - the distinctly Iberian look is more numerous, the Northern/pan-Western types are fewer and the percentage who look pan-Southern European is about the same as in Spain or maybe even a bit higher.

I will also add that despite people saying Spain is homogenous, I think there are regions of Spain (Galicia, Cantabria, Asturias, Leon, Aragon, and the Basque Country) where "Irish" looking types outnumber "southern Italian" types. The reverse is true in Murcia, Andalusia, Extremadura, and Valencia.

[Tooting Carmen]

I will also add that despite people saying Spain is homogenous, I think there are regions of Spain (Galicia, Cantabria, Asturias, Leon, Aragon, and the Basque Country) where "Irish" looking types outnumber "southern Italian" types. The reverse is true in Murcia, Andalusia, Extremadura, and Valencia.

I agree.:thumb001:

[Rambo07]

I think they do, but Portuguese tan well, where as Irish are very depigmented and don not tan.

[Sikeliot]

I agree.:thumb001:

And I think the rest of Spain like Catalunya, and central Spain might be intermediate.

I think that while Portuguese people are on average darker than the Spanish, I still would not ever say any of them look typically southern Italian. I've seen more Spanish who would pass to me.

[Tooting Carmen]

And I think the rest of Spain like Catalunya, and central Spain might be intermediate.

I think that while Portuguese people are on average darker than the Spanish, I still would not ever say any of them look typically southern Italian. I've seen more Spanish who would pass to me.

Perhaps. For example, Ana Drago, one of the MPs I posted earlier, is quite dark but looks nothing like an Italian.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gz7BQ-x0cNw/SwM3e6lf1DI/AAAAAAAACds/oQFW5IJI1G4/s1600/Ana+Drago.bmp

[Sikeliot]

Perhaps. For example, Ana Drago, one of the MPs I posted earlier, is quite dark but looks nothing like an Italian.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gz7BQ-x0cNw/SwM3e6lf1DI/AAAAAAAACds/oQFW5IJI1G4/s1600/Ana+Drago.bmp

She's very archaic Cromagnid type.

This is the kind of Spanish look that can be Sicilian.. a look I have never seen in a Portuguese.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JJe5HhHiaFs/TcqjzVhZvGI/AAAAAAAAc7Y/uye8pyUyoQw/s400/Pau_Gasol_847545.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

I think they do, but Portuguese tan well, where as Irish are very depigmented and don not tan.

An over-simplification, to say the least. Please look up Colin Farrell, Pierce Brosnan, George Best, Keelay Shay Smith, Christine Bleakley, Gillian Norris...

[Sikeliot]

An over-simplification, to say the least. Please look up Colin Farrell, Pierce Brosnan, Keelay Shay Smith, Christine Bleakley, Gillian Norris...

Rose Byrne is Irish-Australian and not only is she tan but looks distinctly Iberian to me.

[Tooting Carmen]

Rose Byrne is Irish-Australian and not only is she tan but looks distinctly Iberian to me.

Perhaps. How about these actresses? http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?113783-Which-of-these-two-British-soap-opera-actresses-could-pass-most-easily-in-Mexico&highlight=natalie+robb

[heyaitsme]

I think they do, but Portuguese tan well, where as Irish are very depigmented and don not tan.

Portuguese people tan TOO well hahha

[Rambo07]

An over-simplification, to say the least. Please look up Colin Farrell, Pierce Brosnan, George Best, Keelay Shay Smith, Christine Bleakley, Gillian Norris...

Putting Bronzer and naturally tanning is not the same thing. Perhaps a few dark Irish here and there can, but the vast majority of Irish are extremely depigmented. The people you mentioned are celebs who go for spray tans or put bronzers.

[Tooting Carmen]

Putting Bronzer and naturally tanning is not the same thing.

True, but the people I mentioned are NATURALLY dark (at least by Northern European standards).

[Prisoner Of Ice]

There's about 4 that can't really pass, but most could.

[Grace O'Malley]

An over-simplification, to say the least. Please look up Colin Farrell, Pierce Brosnan, George Best, Keelay Shay Smith, Christine Bleakley, Gillian Norris...

The vast majority of Irish are Type Skin I & II so most can't tan. George Best is a Northern Irish Protestant and of Scottish and/or English descent, the same for Christine Bleakley. Pierce Brosnan has freckled skin. Colin is one of the minority of Irishmen that does tan well and Gillian Norris is very unusual look for an Irish person. Keeley Shay Smith is an American who is married to Pierce Brosnan she is apparently of Irish and Native American ancestry. So it is more unusual for an Irish person to tan.

Spanish are most similar to Southern French and the Northern French are more similar to southern English and Germans. These sort of things are on a continuum. I'd presume by logic that Spanish are closer to Belgians than Irish. Anyone got one of those Dodecad charts to share to see what populations are closer?

Does this Irishman Colin Fassnidge look Spanish?
http://images.goodfood.com.au/2014/01/13/5072692/thumb-20Four-20in-20Hand-20140113140945620245.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2D2GVFiEbwVx_rfnLNAP6vpESkPOnB rAQfCuIuzcCVLCfKwrq
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/OIKIWwr5TZxB2tngYdbJXg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM1NDtxPTc1O3c9NjMw/http://d.yimg.com/hd/ch7news/sunday_night_show/promos/nonpremium_nocaptions_0227_sn_promo_fassnidge_clic kdown_lrg-19gtfl6.jpg?c=7e4951dacbfe0d21942f148eab31fb97&a=ch7news&mr=0
http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/04/05/1226613/236918-judges.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

I'd say it is more of a ratio of 2 to 1 in my experience. 50/50 ratio is more true of Spaniards in fact.

Is that a different way of saying Google Knowledge?

[Dynamo]

As a group? No way.

However, the men can all pass, it's the women that gives it way.

[Smaug]

Yes.

[Grace O'Malley]

As a group? No way.

However, the men can all pass, it's the women that gives it way.

I think these women pass the best.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NCPKZWljmq8/UulffpM3dBI/AAAAAAAALmE/m8GySPn9fUY/s1600/S%25C3%25B3nia+Balac%25C3%25B3%252C+Portuguese_peo ple.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bwk-9JHHSX4/Uuk6pyv3u7I/AAAAAAAALkk/0kqYIYz8o5U/s1600/Paula+Lobo+Antunes,+Portuguese_people.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

As a group? No way.

However, the men can all pass, it's the women that gives it way.

The last 2 men don't but most of the others could pass as Irish.

[Damião de Góis]

I think these women pass the best.


Number 2 looks like a generic light pigmented european. But are you sure about number 1?

http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/47/D078B55256FAA56EC64C333D3D558D_h467_w598_m2_q90_cO TXXsGga.jpg

http://www.prooptica.pt/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Diana-Bou%C3%A7a-Nova-com-S%C3%B3nia-Balac%C3%B3.jpg

http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/75/CAD497A9F913A1A4F9619586D926_h467_w598_m2_q90_cFbv aoRGf.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

Number 2 looks like a generic light pigmented european. But are you sure about number 1?

http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/47/D078B55256FAA56EC64C333D3D558D_h467_w598_m2_q90_cO TXXsGga.jpg

http://www.prooptica.pt/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Diana-Bou%C3%A7a-Nova-com-S%C3%B3nia-Balac%C3%B3.jpg

http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/75/CAD497A9F913A1A4F9619586D926_h467_w598_m2_q90_cFbv aoRGf.jpg

In the picture that Sikileot has she reminds me of Katie McGrath but in these photos no she doesn't look Irish.

[B01AB20]

Most can, but numbers 5, 9, 11, 15 and the last one look distinctly Iberian (eyebrows and mouth give it away).

add number 6 to that list.

forget the pigmentation, it's the face features.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Fn7yZyHWBaQ/UbEGlYaGi0I/AAAAAAAAA3o/S-GQR_IGnbo/s1600/Diana+Nicolau,+Portuguese_people.jpg

[Cleitus]

Many could pass as Irish.

[Gaijin]

They all look stereotypical Portuguese to me, and therefore could only pass in Portugal.
They could also pass in Spain, since both Iberian factions look alike.

[Tooting Carmen]

Is that a different way of saying Google Knowledge?

No. I already said in this thread that I have visited Portugal and also (especially through my work) met lots of Portuguese people in Britain, so I do have a good idea of what they look like.

[Damião de Góis]

No. I already said in this thread that I have visited Portugal and also (especially through my work) met lots of Portuguese people in Britain, so I do have a good idea of what they look like.

I don't think you do.

[Tooting Carmen]

The vast majority of Irish are Type Skin I & II so most can't tan. George Best is a Northern Irish Protestant and of Scottish and/or English descent, the same for Christine Bleakley. Pierce Brosnan has freckled skin. Colin is one of the minority of Irishmen that does tan well and Gillian Norris is very unusual look for an Irish person. Keeley Shay Smith is an American who is married to Pierce Brosnan she is apparently of Irish and Native American ancestry. So it is more unusual for an Irish person to tan.

I know that most Irish people are very fair-skinned (regardless of hair and eye colour), but there are some who are darker. To every rule, there are almost invariably exceptions.

[Lusos]

What percentage of Spanish do you think would;

1) Pass as Irish even if not typical
2) Look typically Irish
3) Pass as South Italian even if not typical
4) Look typically South Italian

?

And yes, Portuguese look more North African at times than Spaniards do.
Interestingly,I never met a North African that looks Portuguese.
And make a note.I'm not saying we look Irish.

[Grace O'Malley]

I know that most Irish people are very fair-skinned (regardless of hair and eye colour), but there are some who are darker. To every rule, there are almost invariably exceptions.

Yes there are exceptions but fair skin is by far the majority. It is not something that is greatly appealing anyway. The Irish and to a lesser extent the British have inherited very depigmented skin that is more likely to freckle than tan. It is related to the MICR-1 gene that has been inherited in high numbers by the populations of the British Isles. It is due to the low amount of sunlight and cloudy conditions of the Isles. This type of skin is highly susceptible to skin cancer.

[Damião de Góis]

[/B]
Interestingly,I never met a North African that looks Portuguese.
And make a note.I'm not saying we look Irish.

What do you mean? Surely you're not questioning the experts on Portugal that this forum has? Clearly a percentage of these people look South Italian while another percentage look Irish (nevermind any portuguese look that might exist):

http://www.icicom.up.pt/blog/rasganco/arquivos/SCOUP_025.jpg

Some of them look north african too, and they are significantly darker than spaniards.

[SKYNET]

Most cannot pass as Irish.

[Übermensch]

None of them would pass as British or Irish,they would fit all in Southern Italy though more or less.
Irish/British people have an extremly fair complexion,very often freckled, deep set eyes,massive heads and browridges,thin and elongated lips,broad and long noses,long and broad heads,high and broad fo with prominent and cleft chins,so overall ''strong features''' their eye colour i often blue or blue-gray but the averege eye colour is blue with brown or yellow spots (hazel) the hair colour is mostly fair ,medium brown,red-brown and mousy brown are the dominant shades a strong part seems to have blond,golden blond,red or strawberry blond hair only a minority has true dark hair (dark brown,black) with black being rather rare,having said that all these people look southern european because they lack those massive,sharp features and their pigmentation is rather dark for the British Isles,altough some have medium brown,red-brown or mousy brown and light eyes they still look southern because of their gracile bone structure.

[Damião de Góis]

None of them would pass as British or Irish,

We agree, but i think only british and irish people can tell.


they would fit all in Southern Italy though more or less.


I have serious doubts about that one. None of them looks remotely like you.

[Übermensch]

We agree, but i think only british and irish people can tell.



I have serious doubts about that one. None of them looks remotely like you.

Not all southern Italians look like myself, actually most look extremly different from me.

[Grace O'Malley]

None of them would pass as British or Irish,they would fit all in Southern Italy though more or less.
Irish/British people have an extremly fair complexion,very often freckled, deep set eyes,massive heads and browridges,thin and elongated lips,broad and long noses,long and broad heads,high and broad fo with prominent and cleft chins,so overall ''strong features''' their eye colour i often blue or blue-gray but the averege eye colour is blue with brown or yellow spots (hazel) the hair colour is mostly fair ,medium brown,red-brown and mousy brown are the dominant shades a strong part seems to have blond,golden blond,red or strawberry blond hair only a minority has true dark hair (dark brown,black) with black being rather rare,having said that all these people look southern european because they lack those massive,sharp features and their pigmentation is rather dark for the British Isles,altough some have medium brown,red-brown or mousy brown and light eyes they still look southern because of their gracile bone structure.

Some of them do and the ones that don't is not because of their colouring but more to do with facial features.

[Atlantic Islander]

None of them would pass as British or Irish

This part is very true. A description of average Portuguese women by a British man who lived amongst them for nearly a year:


Their features were very regular; their noses thin, prominent, and sometimes finely cut; their upper lips short and slightly turned outwards, the under lip exactly matching it, and the whole mouth of good size and perfectly regular; the line of the junction of lips slightly curled upwards, the cheek-bones rather prominent, and the face long, and somewhat triangular. The eyes of many were grey, and light hazel.

The rest of your comment is bullshit.

[Sikeliot]

Not all southern Italians look like myself, actually most look extremly different from me.

Yes, most are darker than you, and considerably darker than the photos I posted.

[Tacitus]

As a group since some would look out of place. But generally pan-Western Euro.

[Sikeliot]

As a group since some would look out of place. But generally pan-Western Euro.

How many would fit as southern Italians, by contrast?

[Übermensch]

Yes, most are darker than you, and considerably darker than the photos I posted.

It's not only about pigmentation, it's also about skull size and features.
The averege south italian is short,narrow shouldered and small headed, i'm tall (1,83), extremly broad shouldered and big headed.

[Sikeliot]

It's not only about pigmentation, it's also about skull size and features.
The averege south italian is short,narrow shouldered and small headed, i'm tall (1,83), extremly broad shouldered and big headed.

All the people in my post are long-headed and narrow featured, which is the opposite of that.

[Tacitus]

How many would fit as southern Italians, by contrast?

Off hand, the fourth one and the third to last.

[Sikeliot]

Off hand, the fourth one and the third to last.

If I showed them as a group and said "They are either Calabrese or Irish", which would you guess?

[Tacitus]

If I showed them as a group and said "They are either Calabrese or Irish", which would you guess?

I guess Irish.

[Kalimtari]

Yes, but a few would be atypical.

+1

[The King, I am]

half couldn't
the other half could as dark Irish
a few could pass as typical

[Lusos]

What do you mean? Surely you're not questioning the experts on Portugal that this forum has? Clearly a percentage of these people look South Italian while another percentage look Irish (nevermind any portuguese look that might exist):

http://www.icicom.up.pt/blog/rasganco/arquivos/SCOUP_025.jpg

Some of them look north african too, and they are significantly darker than spaniards.

You know nothing about your Country.They clearly look South Asians or Colombians.Or Irish,or Polish or mixed race.Take a pick.

[Atlantic Islander]

You know nothing about your Country.They clearly look South Asians or Colombians.Or Irish,or Polish or mixed race.Take a pick.

Lol.

[Roy]

Yes, but on the other hand you find more German-looking Italians and Polish-looking Greeks than Iberians who look either German or Polish...

I don't know any single Greek person that would look ''Polish'' to me but there's a bit higher proportion of them who ''can pass'' in Poland (but this is still very, very small amount, like few percents).

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't know any single Greek person that would look ''Polish'' to me but there's a bit higher proportion of them who ''can pass'' in Poland (but this is still very, very small amount, like few percents).

The lighter Greeks (who are a minority, I admit) would generally look Slavic, as opposed to these lighter Portuguese who in many cases look (sort of) British/Irish.

[Sikeliot]

The number of Greeks who can be Polish is roughly the same as the number of Sicilians who can be German.

[Lusos]

None of them would pass as British or Irish,they would fit all in Southern Italy though more or less.
Irish/British people have an extremly fair complexion,very often freckled, deep set eyes,massive heads and browridges,thin and elongated lips,broad and long noses,long and broad heads,high and broad fo with prominent and cleft chins,so overall ''strong features''' their eye colour i often blue or blue-gray but the averege eye colour is blue with brown or yellow spots (hazel) the hair colour is mostly fair ,medium brown,red-brown and mousy brown are the dominant shades a strong part seems to have blond,golden blond,red or strawberry blond hair only a minority has true dark hair (dark brown,black) with black being rather rare,having said that all these people look southern european because they lack those massive,sharp features and their pigmentation is rather dark for the British Isles,altough some have medium brown,red-brown or mousy brown and light eyes they still look southern because of their gracile bone structure.

In which of your "Enlightened"pictures can you pass In Germany?

You look like a Co-worker of mine from Cyprus.

[Damião de Góis]

I don't think that "looking british" is a rule that applies to lighter people from Portugal.

[Sikeliot]

They seem to look like the more Atlantid type of Brits, yes.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't think that "looking british" is a rule that applies to lighter people from Portugal.

Not all of them, but some - certainly more than it would for light Greeks, for example.

[Roy]

The lighter Greeks (who are a minority, I admit) would generally look Slavic, as opposed to these lighter Portuguese who in many cases look (sort of) British/Irish.

Light Greeks look exactly what they are = depigmented Greeks; dark or light they overlap with Bulgarians (f.e) who often seem very similar. But than I could understand it myself because it often happens when I post someone darker than average from Poland that I get some much southern answer.

[Tooting Carmen]

Light Greeks look exactly what they are = depigmented Greeks. But than I could understand it myself because it often happens when I post someone darker than average from Poland that I get some much southern answer.

Different ethnic groups are not as rigidly separate and distinct from one another as we may like to think, after all.

[Newsboy]

I don't think that "looking british" is a rule that applies to lighter people from Portugal.

Agreed. I don't think lighter Portuguese look very British/Irish. Their features aren't significantly different from their darker counterparts.


Not all of them, but some - certainly more than it would for light Greeks, for example.

But light Greeks still don't look very Slavic to me. I've never mistaken them for Russians.

[Tooting Carmen]

Agreed. I don't think lighter Portuguese look very British/Irish.

Some can, but it is far from universal. But you're right, the Iberian features can still often be detected, especially the eyes and facial shape.

[Newsboy]

Some can, but it is far from universal. But you're right, the Iberian features can still often be detected, especially the eyes and facial shape.

IMO collectively Portuguese/Spaniards look more Greek than any Northern Euros. Of course I'm not saying they're the same as Greeks.

[Mark]

EDIT: I'm staying out of this one.

[Tooting Carmen]

IMO collectively Portuguese/Spaniards look more Greek than any Northern Euros. Of course I'm not saying they're the same as Greeks.

All true.:thumb001:

At the end of the day, though, there is overlap throughout Atlantic-Western Europe, from Aberdeen to Almeria. Some lighter Spaniards can look stereotypically British, others still look very Spanish even when fair. (Likewise, the reverse for dark Brits too). For example, this blonde MP from Madrid still has a distinctly Spanish facial profile imo:
http://www.sueldospublicos.com/multimedia/images/59rosa_300.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

It would make sense that some Portuguese people would 'pass' in Ireland/UK because of proximity and some admixture proportions. But isn't that the same almost everywhere? For example, Nigerians and Kenyans don't look alike but seem closer to one another than they do to say... Algerians.

Not that they are even close to identical, but Brits and Spaniards overlap rather more than do Nigerians and Kenyans. A better comparison to Nigerians and Kenyans would be probably Swedes and Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

I think, at least for Spaniards, there are more who look "typically" Irish than "typically" Sicilian and Greek. But that is just me. In terms of passing abilities it's about equal.

[Sikeliot]

Not that they are even close to identical, but Brits and Spaniards overlap rather more than do Nigerians and Kenyans. A better comparison to Nigerians and Kenyans would be probably Swedes and Sicilians.

I don't agree. Nigerians and Kenyans can regularly be confused with one another (at least Bantu Kenyans), whereas maybe 5% of Sicilians and Swedes could be.

[Newsboy]

I think, at least for Spaniards, there are more who look "typically" Irish than "typically" Sicilian and Greek. But that is just me. In terms of passing abilities it's about equal.

I think Greeks look more Spanish than Southern Italians do. Even a Greek member thinks so.

[Alessio]

No only when you're cherrypicking


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BSXpCs112ZM/UgAUFLUZ5_I/AAAAAAAAD2A/zd7Gk4Ss-7I/s1600/Lu%25C3%25ADs+Garcia%252C+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8dDc1HhAwrA/UhtBU0LrNSI/AAAAAAAAEZo/tDe6zm7b7Sk/s1600/Bárbara+Norton+de+Matos2,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NCPKZWljmq8/UulffpM3dBI/AAAAAAAALmE/m8GySPn9fUY/s1600/S%25C3%25B3nia+Balac%25C3%25B3%252C+Portuguese_peo ple.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5pPj1rz3tLQ/UbnPOOyb51I/AAAAAAAABMw/cMg5Q09y--8/s1600/Susana+Mendes,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iNkPQGvqhko/UbEGKATNJyI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/59Cgo6e4zlY/s1600/Lúcia+Moniz,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Fn7yZyHWBaQ/UbEGlYaGi0I/AAAAAAAAA3o/S-GQR_IGnbo/s1600/Diana+Nicolau,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bwk-9JHHSX4/Uuk6pyv3u7I/AAAAAAAALkk/0kqYIYz8o5U/s1600/Paula+Lobo+Antunes,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zUAkEbFCjQE/UkSXNCtovuI/AAAAAAAAF18/FaGjJxqU5JM/s1600/Mariana+Pacheco,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HNOO9Hv1O1E/Us0-BzLjG_I/AAAAAAAAKI4/ma8tjgI3PDg/s1600/Mafalda+Pinto2,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-keBBww3ac24/UousJ0zdz6I/AAAAAAAAIbM/UvjDW92uUcM/s1600/Sofia+Arruda,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K-7f7g3T1fg/UnGKDVLFiwI/AAAAAAAAHuQ/zd4GvKGJB9Q/s1600/Andreia+Dinis,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qfz3mWl7Wq8/UiiCNeaIsHI/AAAAAAAAEnU/4XX6jOm25vo/s1600/Carlos+Malvarez,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OShEDfbc72I/UgAT5js9niI/AAAAAAAAD14/hF6HileKynE/s1600/Diogo+Costa+Reis%252C+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EiN6uaRXGkU/UimxzAlxuZI/AAAAAAAAEok/wla-zgOrCLs/s1600/Pedro+Rodil,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UjQw2SrFy68/UiiF4MdZLnI/AAAAAAAAEoU/W4TjBFPijAY/s1600/Diogo+Lopes,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I-eJKiHZnq4/Uhe7b7MdbhI/AAAAAAAAEVM/iObnr1Hr08A/s1600/Joaquim+de+Almeida,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R9n7jVo2JjY/UojPXDlnb5I/AAAAAAAAITM/rIJXrZ3cYvo/s1600/Joaquim+Nicolau,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KLwiHsmdZA4/UojPjy8IVFI/AAAAAAAAITk/rxLYetfZESg/s1600/Lu%C3%ADs+Lucas,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ry9LAIWqyBM/Uo_GwuKrkSI/AAAAAAAAIc8/dsUzEYhYR98/s1600/Orlando+Costa,+Portuguese_people.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XPQS8iwageU/Uk3fQS3taoI/AAAAAAAAGY4/RXo-xKEeDe8/s1600/Vitor+Norte,+Portuguese_people.jpg

[Mark]

Not that they are even close to identical, but Brits and Spaniards overlap rather more than do Nigerians and Kenyans. A better comparison to Nigerians and Kenyans would be probably Swedes and Sicilians.
You quoted my post before I edited it. To reiterate, I'm staying out of this one.

[Tooting Carmen]

No only when you're cherrypicking

Of course he deliberately picked only viable options, otherwise the thread would have looked daft.:picard2:

[Damião de Góis]

Here are a few, 3 men and 3 women, i don't think these people look especially british. Most couldn't pass i would say:

http://ranchcardoso.biz/Cavaleiros/RuiFernandes/Rui%20Fernandes.jpg

http://sites.euroimpala.pt/cache/bin/XPQUQowXX130230pNpAsNJhx9ZKU.jpg

http://www.lux.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/14088941/227x224

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/13807434/642

http://www.lisbonartists.pt/public/uploads/actresses/joanabarradas/2.jpg

http://media.facemodels.grupoma.eu/multimedia/fotos/817/0003C80DF211BF.jpg

[Sikeliot]

They look very British to me.

[Sikeliot]

I think Greeks look more Spanish than Southern Italians do. Even a Greek member thinks so.

It's because of more Pontid influence in Greeks which resembles Atlanto-Med. Atlanto-Med in southern Italy is present, but less so.

[Tooting Carmen]

Here are a few, 3 men and 3 women, i don't think these people look especially british. Most couldn't pass i would say:

http://ranchcardoso.biz/Cavaleiros/RuiFernandes/Rui%20Fernandes.jpg

http://sites.euroimpala.pt/cache/bin/XPQUQowXX130230pNpAsNJhx9ZKU.jpg

http://www.lux.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/14088941/227x224

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/13807434/642

http://www.lisbonartists.pt/public/uploads/actresses/joanabarradas/2.jpg

http://media.facemodels.grupoma.eu/multimedia/fotos/817/0003C80DF211BF.jpg

Photo 1: he looks more Central European than British, interestingly. Photo 2: the woman looks distinctly Iberian, while the man again looks pseudo-Austrian or something. Photo 3: looks Eastern European. Photo 4: difficult to describe. Photo 5: she is passable. Photo 6: straight out of Sweden. So, for the most part, you're right.:D

[Newsboy]

Here are a few, 3 men and 3 women, i don't think these people look especially british. Most couldn't pass i would say:

Yeah, apart from pigmentation these people don't look British at all.

3rd one looks Russian, Ukrainian or Polish.

[Damião de Góis]

Photo 1: he looks more Central European than British, interestingly. Photo 2: the woman looks distinctly Iberian, while the man again looks pseudo-Austrian or something. Photo 3: looks Eastern European. Photo 4: difficult to describe. Photo 5: she is passable. Photo 6: straight out of Sweden. So, for the most part, you're right.:D

It would be strange. Historically our northern european influences didn't come from Britain.

[Atlantic Islander]

Like Alex and a few other have said, our light types are still quite Portuguese looking:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7352/hbar.jpg

Eye color aside she's a near perfect example of this description:


Their features were very regular; their noses thin, prominent, and sometimes finely cut; their upper lips short and slightly turned outwards, the under lip exactly matching it, and the whole mouth of good size and perfectly regular; the line of the junction of lips slightly curled upwards, the cheek-bones rather prominent, and the face long, and somewhat triangular. The eyes of many were grey, and light hazel.

[Newsboy]

It's because of more Pontid influence in Greeks which resembles Atlanto-Med. Atlanto-Med in southern Italy is present, but less so.

Yeah, Italians are more brachycephalic than Greeks overall. Atlanto-Med/Pontid is quite common in Greece. In southern Italy (and Sicily), Gracile Meds are far more common instead. Outside Epirus, Greeks lack Dinaricization. Dinaricism is quite heavy in southern Italy.

This might be why I think Greeks fit better in Spain than Southern Italians/Sicilians do.

[Sikeliot]

Like Alex and a few other have said, our light types are still quite Portuguese looking:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7352/hbar.jpg

Eye color aside she's a near perfect example of this description:


I wouldn't call her a "light" type.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yeah, Italians are more brachycephalic than Greeks overall. Atlanto-Med/Pontid is quite common in Greece. In southern Italy (and Sicily), Gracile Meds are far more common instead. Outside Epirus, Greeks lack Dinaricization. Dinaricism is quite heavy in southern Italy.

This might be why I think Greeks fit better in Spain than Southern Italians/Sicilians do.

You might have a point, but another reason you overlook is the fact that quite a few South Italians/Sicilians have Armenoid/Levantine influences in a way that neither Spaniards nor Greeks do.

[Tooting Carmen]

I wouldn't call her a "light" type.

Not the lightest of types, but lighter-than-average.

[Sikeliot]

Here was an example of a Spaniard I mistook for Greek, but this look would not be common in southern Italy:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118106-Where-is-he-from-Classify-him!

[JohnSmith]

Irish and Portuguese have much in common in the way they look and how they run their economies.

[Sikeliot]

This look could be Irish too:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-esRKAiSfNSM/Ucgu40uEB1I/AAAAAAAABVw/4RyS-yLcEzw/s1600/Pedro+ferreira%252C+Portuguese_people.jpg

[Newsboy]

Here was an example of a Spaniard I mistook for Greek, but this look would not be common in southern Italy:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118106-Where-is-he-from-Classify-him!

Going the other way, here's a Greek that looks very Spanish. Comte Arnau agrees.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1261666&t=5338722

[Sikeliot]

Going the other way, here's a Greek that looks very Spanish. Even Comte Arnau thinks so.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1261666&t=5338722


Repost the photo? I can't see it, I am IP banned there.

[Newsboy]

Repost the photo? I can't see it, I am IP banned there.

Orestis Karnezis

http://www.gentikoule.gr/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/karnezis-ofi.jpg

http://content-mcdn.sentragoal.gr/filesystem/images/20121111/low/pegasus_LARGE_t_1041_105856799.JPG

http://i1.goal.com/files/images/stats/goal/player-images/86/19486_186x236.jpg

45301

[JohnSmith]

Portugals economy is sometimes even considered more similar to the Anglo saxton model vs the Mediterranean model.

[Sikeliot]

Orestis Karnezis

http://www.gentikoule.gr/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/karnezis-ofi.jpg

http://content-mcdn.sentragoal.gr/filesystem/images/20121111/low/pegasus_LARGE_t_1041_105856799.JPG

http://i1.goal.com/files/images/stats/goal/player-images/86/19486_186x236.jpg

45301


He reminds me of Colin Farrell too.

[mikeyup]

Irish and Portuguese have much in common in the way they look and how they run their economies.

ouch

[Newsboy]

He reminds me of Colin Farrell too.

I see that. Tehsaint (Greek user) said Colin Farrell could easily pass in Greece.

[Atlantic Islander]

Not the lightest of types, but lighter-than-average.

Yeah I agree. Funny what brown eyes and a nice suntan makes people think.

[JohnSmith]

ouch

It's true they both have similar expenditures and got similar bailouts. They are really similar. Maybe it is a celtic thing. I have seen many Portuguese people with red hair by the way.

[Tooting Carmen]

Maybe it is a celtic thing.

Like I said, there is continuity and overlap between the Atlantic regions of Europe, however flimsy it may be at times.

[mikeyup]

Like I said, there is continuity and overlap between the Atlantic regions of Europe, however flimsy it may be at times.

apparently in the economy aswell

[Atlantic Islander]

I wouldn't call her a "light" type.

Ugh fine, here:

http://i.imgur.com/RdGvtDT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rpCD2wO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZCXDKKr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/asd2eLq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n70pbeV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7cSGEzZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Wgc6rER.jpg

Neither girl looks Irish or British. Bonus is that you can see Sara in contrast to Miss Luxembourg, Miss Finland, and Miss Georgia.

[Alessio]

The one on the top the 3d and the last one can easily pas as North west European. Only the last one has different cheekbones and lips than most Dutch people for example.


Here are a few, 3 men and 3 women, i don't think these people look especially british. Most couldn't pass i would say:

http://ranchcardoso.biz/Cavaleiros/RuiFernandes/Rui%20Fernandes.jpg

http://sites.euroimpala.pt/cache/bin/XPQUQowXX130230pNpAsNJhx9ZKU.jpg

http://www.lux.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/14088941/227x224

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/13807434/642

http://www.lisbonartists.pt/public/uploads/actresses/joanabarradas/2.jpg

http://media.facemodels.grupoma.eu/multimedia/fotos/817/0003C80DF211BF.jpg

[Alessio]

I've seen some people from Amsterdam who claimed to be Dutch but looked really Southern European, but I think there was a lot of admixing going on in Amsterdam since the golden age and not to forget the amount of Jews living in Amsterdam before the second ww.
My family ain't from Amsterdam by the way, but I grew up there.

[Tooting Carmen]

Actually, the women posted by Atlantic Islander look much closer to Brits than the people posted by Alex.

[JohnSmith]

I've seen some people from Amsterdam who claimed to be Dutch but looked really Southern European, but I think there was a lot of admixing going on in Amsterdam since the golden age and not to forget the amount of Jews living in Amsterdam before the second ww.
My family ain't from Amsterdam by the way, but I grew up there.

The Netherlands was ruled by Spain for a long time, this could be from this.

[Damião de Góis]

Actually, the women posted by Atlantic Islander look much closer to Brits than the people posted by Alex.

Her?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/552204_483026261742826_1822975419_n.jpg

[Newsboy]

Actually, the women posted by Atlantic Islander look much closer to Brits than the people posted by Alex.

They pass better than generic Slavs do. But they still don't look British.

[Alessio]

Maybe maybe not, but it's more common to see Dutch people with some Southern European features in Amsterdam in specific. A lot of Dutch people are also mixed with Indonesian and nowadays Surinaams.


The Netherlands was ruled by Spain for a long time, this could be from this.

[guyinsf]

I would say pretty much all of them can pass in Ireland.

[Tooting Carmen]

Her?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/552204_483026261742826_1822975419_n.jpg

She'd be atypical but she could pass.

[Atlantic Islander]

;;;

[Alessio]

Thnx moderator

[JohnSmith]

I remember a Portuguese girlfriend I has and her hair was so red it looked almost orange. I am sure many people mistaken her for Irish throughout her life. For god sake my 100% Italian Grandfather was always mistaken for Irish because his name was Pat(a common Irish name). Irish people would even make Italian jokes right in front of him, lol.

Some Irish people are actually quite dark like Colin Farrel and Sean Hannity.

[Übermensch]

In which of your "Enlightened"pictures can you pass In Germany?

You look like a Co-worker of mine from Cyprus.

It wasn't my point but if you wish:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1184962_667735149957837_610929535_n.jpg

Why this guy can't pass in Germany? I am actually much lighter pigmented (skin and hair) than the averege German.

[JohnSmith]

It wasn't my point but if you wish:


Why this guy can't pass in Germany? I am actually much lighter pigmented (skin and hair) than the averege German.

You have some really beady eyes.

[Shuffle]

Could pass here in South-Germany. ;-)

[Atlantic Islander]

It wasn't my point but if you wish:
Why this guy can't pass in Germany? I am actually much lighter pigmented (skin and hair) than the averege German.

I think I'm going to go blind from the overexposure (https://www.google.com/search?q=overexposed+photo&client=firefox-a&hs=KxB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=i1QeU5XeCcztoASDtYCYCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=864).

[Übermensch]

I think I'm going to go blind from the overexposure (https://www.google.com/search?q=overexposed+photo&client=firefox-a&hs=KxB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=i1QeU5XeCcztoASDtYCYCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=864).

This is actually called ''light pigmentation''' and it's only the sun that makes me brighter,but i can show ya even photos in the shadow, i'm still very light haired sorry if you don't like it:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t34/1743216_668480846549934_2034939871_n.jpg?oh=5ec08d 493db50af0d6e158b8bc61c950&oe=5321220C&__gda__=1394673411_e457c43f65a56122e1d35db5840774e 1

FACT: i can easly pass in Germany, even Germans told me '''you look very German''' in real life.

[Sikeliot]

^ You look Cypriot.

[Übermensch]

^ You look Cypriot.

Maybe so, never been to Cyprus.
But if so, how the averege Spaniard or Portouguese look? probably non-berber north african.

[Lusos]

Maybe so, never been to Cyprus.
But if so, how the averege Spaniard or Portouguese look? probably non-berber north african.

Portuguese look ......Portuguese or Iberian.You also have wog features.Brown hair,brown eyes normal skin pigment.

[Übermensch]

Portuguese look ......Portuguese or Iberian.You also have wog features.Brown hair,brown eyes normal skin pigment.

The averege Iberian look is brown skin,black hair and brown eyes though, like it or not.
And i'm skin type I (Pink), i am way lighter than all of the portouguese posted in this 3d skinwise, my hair might be brown but it has a strong red-golden influence (pheraps auburn) it looks darker now because it's short, when it's longer is extremly light, pheraps very light brown/dark blond.

[Lusos]

The averege Iberian look is brown skin,black hair and brown eyes though, like it or not.
And i'm skin type I (Pink), i am way lighter than all of the portouguese posted in this 3d skinwise, my hair might be brown but it has a strong red-golden influence (pheraps auburn) it looks darker now because it's short, when it's longer is extremly light, pheraps very light brown/dark blond.

You suffer from Eccentricity .Or some kind of Paranoid Pesonality Disorder.
Stop comparing yourself to People you think you know.
You know.The truth Is,you pass way easier In Iberia then Germany.You're the one who Is going to have to live with It.

[Übermensch]

You suffer from Eccentricity .Or some kind of Paranoid Pesonality Disorder.
Stop comparing yourself to People you think you know.
You know.The truth Is,you pass way easier In Iberia then Germany.You're the one who Is going to have to live with It.

Ok Ok, i was just writing my opinion.
I've been in Germany though, and i know a lot of Germans, i just said i would pass for German rather easly,i wouldn't stick out.

[Übermensch]

....

[Atlantic Islander]

This is actually called ''light pigmentation''' and it's only the sun that makes me brighter,but i can show ya even photos in the shadow, i'm still very light haired sorry if you don't like it:

FACT: i can easly pass in Germany, even Germans told me '''you look very German''' in real life.

This is the first time you've used a photo with good lighting, I think your tone is on the "ruddy" side.

[Atlantic Islander]

The averege Iberian look is brown skin,black hair and brown eyes though, like it or not.
And i'm skin type I (Pink), i am way lighter than all of the portouguese posted in this 3d skinwise, my hair might be brown but it has a strong red-golden influence (pheraps auburn) it looks darker now because it's short, when it's longer is extremly light, pheraps very light brown/dark blond.

Lol, you are so full of it. I know you are insecure, but you shouldn't lie and put other ethnicities down in order to feel better about how you look. What do you think lying actually gets you?

[JohnSmith]

The averege Iberian look is brown skin,black hair and brown eyes though, like it or not.
And i'm skin type I (Pink), i am way lighter than all of the portouguese posted in this 3d skinwise, my hair might be brown but it has a strong red-golden influence (pheraps auburn) it looks darker now because it's short, when it's longer is extremly light, pheraps very light brown/dark blond.

I do not think this is true. Plus, very few Europeans have black hair.

[Damião de Góis]

I do not think this is true. Plus, very few Europeans have black hair.

Ubermensch is a very "special" member. From his countless pictures under a lamp to accentuate his "lightness", to shaving his eyebrows, to his self classification of Faelid. He also makes random rants such as the one you replied to. Like:


i am way lighter than all of the portouguese posted in this 3d skinwise,

When in reality:

http://www.lux.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/14088941/227x224

vs

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89157-In-which-nation-would-you-place-me-(except-my-own-country)&p=1797500&viewfull=1#post1797500

So yeah... reply at your own risk.

[JohnSmith]

Ubermensch is a very "special" member. From his countless pictures under a lamp to accentuate his "lightness", to shaving his eyebrows, to his self classification of Faelid. He also makes random rants such as the one you replied to. Like:

.

Oh ok, lol.

[Anthropologique]

I still maintain that more Iberians can pass easily in Greece than in the British Isles.

Err, no. Of course, your statement is not surprising since you are clearly biased.

You reign as the king of cherry pickers when it comes to atypical Iberians.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

You better hope Atlantic Islander doesn't see this thread. ;)

This. :D

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Err, no. Of course, your statement is not surprising since you are clearly biased.

You reign as the king of cherry pickers when it comes to atypical Iberians.

We should give him annickname, maybe The forum king of cherry picker of atypical Iberians. Good nickname for him?. :cool:

[Smeagol]

Portuguese as a whole definitely pass better in Greece than British Isles. Mediterranean is obviously the dominant racial element in Portugal.

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese as a whole definitely pass better in Greece than British Isles. Mediterranean is obviously the dominant racial element in Portugal.

But Portugal has a lot more Cromagnid than anywhere else in Southern Europe and it creates some ethnically specific types that "look" Portuguese. I think Spanish people have fewer of these elements and can pass in Greece better, due to facial structure and overall look.

[Smeagol]

But Portugal has a lot more Cromagnid than anywhere else in Southern Europe and it creates some ethnically specific types that "look" Portuguese. I think Spanish people have fewer of these elements and can pass in Greece better, due to facial structure and overall look.

Yeah that's true, but I don't know if Portugal is a lot more CM than Spain. I mean I think Portuguese have a bit more Cromagnid influences as a whole, but overall, Spanish and Portuguese are nearly identical in looks.

[Anthropologique]

Atlantid is dominant in the Portuguese with a significant minority of West Med and some Germanic elements.

The exemplars on here are mainly North Atlantid.

[alnortedelsur]

The averege Iberian look is brown skin,black hair and brown eyes though, like it or not.
And i'm skin type I (Pink), i am way lighter than all of the portouguese posted in this 3d skinwise, my hair might be brown but it has a strong red-golden influence (pheraps auburn) it looks darker now because it's short, when it's longer is extremly light, pheraps very light brown/dark blond.

Excuse me...

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Lindsay-Lohan-Spits-Out-Drink.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3462879/lali-y-gas-carcajadas-o.gif

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::pound::po und::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:

[FeederOfRavens]

The average Iberian is really similar to Africans. Brown skin, Black hair, etc

Iberian

http://fistfuloftalent.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tom-haverford.jpg

African

http://cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/legacy-imgx/3/2/0/5/3/4/1/large-3205341.jpg?v=1235779867

[alnortedelsur]

The average Iberian is really similar to Africans. Brown skin, Black hair, etc

Iberian

http://fistfuloftalent.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tom-haverford.jpg



LOL That guy looks as much "Iberian" as an Eskimo or a Bengali looks "German".

Seriously... I think that people should take general knowledge tests, and IQ tests before being allowed to participate in this anthro boards. Otherwise, retards like the one of the post above:lol00002: show up, and these boards end up not being serious forums to discuss anthropology issues.

[Anthropologique]

The average Iberian is really similar to Africans. Brown skin, Black hair, etc

Iberian

http://fistfuloftalent.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tom-haverford.jpg

African

http://cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/legacy-imgx/3/2/0/5/3/4/1/large-3205341.jpg?v=1235779867

You must have brain damage. Your comments suggest you are suffering from a serious mental illness, child.

[Anthropologique]

Ubermensch is a very "special" member. From his countless pictures under a lamp to accentuate his "lightness", to shaving his eyebrows, to his self classification of Faelid. He also makes random rants such as the one you replied to. Like:



When in reality:

http://www.lux.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/14088941/227x224

vs

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89157-In-which-nation-would-you-place-me-(except-my-own-country)&p=1797500&viewfull=1#post1797500

So yeah... reply at your own risk.

Don't forget, he also lightens his hair and tries to pass it off as his "natural" shade. LOL! Sick!

[FeederOfRavens]

You must have brain damage. Your comments suggest you are suffering from a serious mental illness, child.


LOL That guy looks as much "Iberian" as an Eskimo or a Bengali looks "German".

Seriously... I think that people should take general knowledge tests, and IQ tests before being allowed to participate in this anthro boards. Otherwise, retards like the one of the post above:lol00002: show up, and these boards end up not being serious forums to discuss anthropology issues.


Looks like your guy's troll detectors are broken.

[Leon_C]

Some of the lighter ones.

[alnortedelsur]

Some of the lighter ones.
EDIT

[Tooting Carmen]

NOPE, her colouring is actually very average in Spain.

I think what he meant was that, out of the OP sample, some of the lighter ones featured could fit in Ireland.

[Anthropologique]

NOPE, her colouring is actually very average in Spain.

Which one?

As a whole, Spaniards and Portuguese have lighter hair than Southern Europeans from the Eastern end of Europe. See Candille et al. (2012, 2013).

[Anthropologique]

I think what he meant was that, out of the OP sample, some of the lighter ones featured could fit in Ireland.

A majority would fit in Ireland easily. Additionally, keep in mind that you find darker Irish more frequently than is suggested in moronic anthro forums.

[FeederOfRavens]

Which one?

As a whole, Spaniards and Portuguese have lighter hair than Southern Europeans from the Eastern end of Europe. See Candille et al. (2012, 2013).

Not Serbs or Croats.

[Anthropologique]

Not Serbs or Croats.
Serbs and Croats are Eastern / Central Euros. No pigmentation studies have been done involving those population groups, however, I would say Croats are somewhat lighter than Iberians on average.

[FeederOfRavens]

Serbs and Croats are Eastern / Central Euros. No pigmentation studies have been done involving those population groups, however, I would say Croats are somewhat lighter than Iberians on average.

Usually Balkaners are viewed as South Eastern Euros.

[alnortedelsur]

I think what he meant was that, out of the OP sample, some of the lighter ones featured could fit in Ireland.

Yes I know, I answered it thinking that I was in the thread about the Spanish brunette opened by me, and I thought that he was talking about her.

When I realized, I deleted my answer. Wrong answer on the wrong thread... Sorry

[alnortedelsur]

Usually Balkaners are viewed as South Eastern Euros.

Serbs and Croats are NOT lighter, on average, than Iberians, NOPE:eusa_naughty:

[FeederOfRavens]

Serbs and Croats are NOT lighter, on average, than Iberians, NOPE:eusa_naughty:

Lighter haired yes, due to their Slavic influence.

[Anthropologique]

Usually Balkaners are viewed as South Eastern Euros.

Generally, NATIVE Iberians are lighter than NATIVE Serbs and darker than NATIVE Croats, IMO. No gypsies, of course.

[alnortedelsur]

Serbs and Croats are Eastern / Central Euros. No pigmentation studies have been done involving those population groups, however, I would say Croats are somewhat lighter than Iberians on average.

If that is true, the difference would NOT be that much.

[FeederOfRavens]

Generally, NATIVE Iberians are lighter than NATIVE Serbs and darker than NATIVE Croats, IMO. No gypsies, of course.

Doubtful due to Slavic heritage.

[Anthropologique]

If that is true, the difference would NOT be that much.

NATIVE Portuguese came out very slightly lighter in skin tone compared to Poles in the Candille et al. (20112 - 2013) study. Published in a top scientific publication, peer reviewed and accepted. The Poles averaged lighter eyes and hair.

[Anthropologique]

Doubtful due to Slavic heritage.

Iberians average ~ 40% Northern European. Don't be fooled by uneducated perceptions.

[FeederOfRavens]

Iberians average ~ 40% Northern European. Don't be fooled by uneducated perceptions.

??

[Anthropologique]

??

Check Eurogenes, please. NATIVE Iberians are mainly Atlantic peoples.

[FeederOfRavens]

Check Eurogenes, please. NATIVE Iberians are mainly Atlantic peoples.

So what?

[alnortedelsur]

Iberians average ~ 40% Northern European. Don't be fooled by uneducated perceptions.

He thinks that Iberians are just "plain meds" who also happen to be "heavily admixed" with very dark Arabs from the Arabian peninsula and North African moors. :lol:

[FeederOfRavens]

He thinks that Iberians are just "plain meds" who also happen to be "heavily admixed" with Arabs and North African moors. :lol:

I don't what you are. You're not lighter than Slavs.

[Shah-Jehan]

Yeah but, some would not fit the look of an average Irishmen.

[alnortedelsur]

I don't what you are. You're not lighter than Slavs.

Serbs, Montenegrins, Bosnians, Croats and Bulgarians are NOT Slavs, they are "Slavized" Balkanites.

And I have NOT said that Iberians are lighter than people from those countries (who are NOT Slavs), but they are NOT lighter, on average than Iberians either, NOPE:eusa_naughty:

If some of them presume of being "Slavs", they are NOT more than Slavic-wannabes.

And if it's true that Croats and Slovenes are a bit lighter than Iberians, the difference would be very slight and hardly noticeable.

[FeederOfRavens]

Serbs, Montenegrins, Bosnians, Croats and Bulgarians are NOT Slavs, they are "Slavized" Balkanites who are NOT lighter, on average than Iberians, NOPE:eusa_naughty:

If some of them presume of being "Slavs", they are NOT more than Slavic-wannabes.

And if it's true that Croats and Slovenes are a bit lighter than Iberians, the difference would be very slight and hardly noticeable.


Actually they're an even mix between native Illyrians and Slavic invaders. I mean lighter hair not skin. Skin is not noticeable difference between most S. Euros.

[Anthropologique]

So what?

It's autosomal DNA I'm talking about. It is one of the biggest determinants of phenotype and means that with, ~ 40% N. European in the genome, it makes NATIVE Iberians fairly light. Again, only INDIGENOUS Iberians.

[Anthropologique]

Actually they're an even mix between native Illyrians and Slavic invaders. I mean lighter hair not skin. Skin is not noticeable difference between most S. Euros.

The differences were noticeable in Candille et al. (2012) and Jablonski (2006). I'm sure the comprehensive European pigmentation and cancer research study now being pursued by the Harvard Med and U Michigan (apparently due out in 2016) will buttress what we already know from previous studies.

[aimar]

no, they all look too Portuguese for it, or maybe it's because I'm portuguese and I have a hard time looking at them as Irish (or anything other than Portuguese)

[Anthropologique]

no, they all look too Portuguese for it, or maybe it's because I'm portuguese and I have a hard time looking at them as Irish (or anything other than Portuguese)

Sure, you're blinded by ethnicity. LOL! ;o )

[aimar]

A group of irish would have borrebys, extreme redheads/paleness, lots of freckled individuals, etc...
These portuguese are just atlantids and atlanto-meds.

[Anthropologique]

A group of irish would have borrebys, extreme redheads/paleness, lots of freckled individuals, etc...
These portuguese are just atlantids and atlanto-meds.

There a plenty of Altantid Irish.

[Grace O'Malley]

Sure, you're blinded by ethnicity. LOL! ;o )

They don't look Irish as a group. There quite a few that don't look Irish especially the ones I pointed out in my previous post.

[Grace O'Malley]

Check Eurogenes, please. NATIVE Iberians are mainly Atlantic peoples.

I had the dna of myself and 3 family members done and Eurogenes 13 and 15 are the only calculators on Gedmatch that pick up that my mother, brother and myself are Irish (even Eurogenes puts my daughter as English) all the others put us as German, Dutch, mixed Germanic with Irish way down the list. There's something not right with a lot of those calculators or else they don't have enough Irish on their databases.

[Anthropologique]

They don't look Irish as a group. There quite a few that don't look Irish especially the ones I pointed out in my previous post.

A majority would blend in from what I've seen. There is some diversity in native Irish.

[Anthropologique]

I had the dna of myself and 3 family members done and Eurogenes 13 and 15 are the only calculators on Gedmatch that pick up that my mother, brother and myself are Irish (even Eurogenes puts my daughter as English) all the others put us as German, Dutch, mixed Germanic with Irish way down the list. There's something not right with a lot of those calculators or else they don't have enough Irish on their databases.

Probably not enough Irish. Then again the Germanic component has some significance in the Irish genome.

[Grace O'Malley]

Probably not enough Irish. Then again the Germanic component has some significance in the Irish genome.

I've never heard that there was a big Germanic component in the Irish population but the problem is on these calculators Irish appears way down the list so I think their samples aren't accurate. My family is representative of all the corners of Ireland.

[Anthropologique]

I've never heard that there was a big Germanic component in the Irish population but the problem is on these calculators Irish appears way down the list so I think their samples aren't accurate. My family is representative of all the corners of Ireland.

Viking markers? Vikings were of a Germanic strain.

[Nico Nobrix]

Yes, but on the other hand you find more German-looking Italians and Polish-looking Greeks than Iberians who look either German or Polish...

Really? According to every calculator on GEDmatch Portuguese and every region is Spain scores higher Atlantic and Baltic than Southern, Central, and even North Italy (arguably if you factor in over all African influence, than North Italians are similar to Spaniards and Portuguese in terms of Atlantic and Baltic percentages). Dont believe me? Check yourself and see Europedia's autosomal DNA of Europe. I think it's really funny that the majority of public opinion and even this genetic literate community thinks Italians have all this North European blood over the rest of Southern Europe. Simply not true with the exception of North Italy in which nearly half of the autosomal DNA is configured to Atlantic and Baltic. Portugal and Spain across all regions average 50% Atlantic Baltic. This is almost never mentioned in forums.

Sorry, I dont mean to slander my Italian brothers, just sick and tired of basically no representation of the Celtic/Germanic history of Portugal and Spain, instead its constantly drowned out by this ohh we have an average of 5% North African. Yet it was those very Celtiberian and Visigoths that preserved Christianity in Europe from what would be inevitably a takeover of all of europe.

Respect.

[Nico Nobrix]

Between Spaniards and Northern Italians perhaps, but both definitely have more Northern-looking people than do the Portuguese.

Eurogenes K13 shows
North Italians
ATLANTIC: 31.68
BALTIC: 11.93

Portuguese
ATLANTIC: 38.54
BALTIC: 11.51

For Portuguese, that is almost a 7 point lead, even when you factor in African differences (leaving West Asian alone), the Portuguese still lead genetically a more Northern European autosomal pie. The only region that beats this is Cataluna and Cantabria by 2%. You confuse mainland Portuguese with Brazilians or other Portuguese colonized people, mainlanders are similar to North Spaniards, arguable central, but not southern, and quite starkly more North European than Italians and somewhat similar to the North of Italy. Again, I'm astonished no one references GEDmatch or Europedia to settle this myth. Unfortunately, Portuguese are too damn reserved to stick up for their ancestral heritage. Instead it's all this crap by geneticists and some of them racists, pointing fingers at Portuguese as being the darkest Europeans and some questioning their legitimacy of being European. I dont have a problem with having non-North European DNA, but to not acknowledge 50% of your dna being of Northern stock is a bit sad! Almost no support. We are boarderline French, particularly Basques and even Catalunians, at least the whole of the peninsula gravitate more to the North than other Southern Europeans can say.

[Raizen]

Eurogenes K13 shows
North Italians
ATLANTIC: 31.68
BALTIC: 11.93

Portuguese
ATLANTIC: 38.54
BALTIC: 11.51

For Portuguese, that is almost a 7 point lead, even when you factor in African differences (leaving West Asian alone), the Portuguese still lead genetically a more Northern European autosomal pie. The only region that beats this is Cataluna and Cantabria by 2%. You confuse mainland Portuguese with Brazilians or other Portuguese colonized people, mainlanders are similar to North Spaniards, arguable central, but not southern, and quite starkly more North European than Italians and somewhat similar to the North of Italy. Again, I'm astonished no one references GEDmatch or Europedia to settle this myth. Unfortunately, Portuguese are too damn modest to stick up for their ancestral heritage. I dont have a problem with having non-North European DNA, but to not acknowledge 50% of your dna is a bit sad. We are boarderline French, particularly Basques and even Catalunians, at least the whole of the peninsula gravitate more to the North than other Southern Europeans

atlantic is not north european genius, atlantic peaks in basque

[Nico Nobrix]

atlantic is not north european genius, atlantic peaks in basque

Doesn't matter. There is nothing else on the Eurogenes k13 list besides Atlantic and Baltic that is a North European genetic marker. But let me just ask you, the rest in that list is: West Mediteranian, East Mediteranian, West Asian, Red Sea, South Asian, East Asian, Siberian, Ameridian, Oceanian, North East African, Sub Saharan African. Again you tell me if I miss interpreted the North European type

[Raizen]

Doesn't matter genius. There is nothing else on the Eurogenes k13 list besides Atlantic and Baltic that is a North European genetic marker. But let me just ask you, the rest in that list is: West Mediteranian, East Mediteranian, West Asian, Red Sea, South Asian, East Asian, Siberian, Ameridian, Oceanian, North East African, Sub Saharan African. Again you tell me if I miss interpreted the North European type

on k13 there is no atlantic, you are talking about north_atlantic, so yeah it is north european my bad

[Nico Nobrix]

on k13 there is no atlantic, you are talking about north_atlantic, so yeah it is north european my bad

Ok, yeah sorry my bad too.

Here is dodecade k12b
Portuguese

North West European: 22.32
Atlantic Mediteranian: 47.55

North Italian

North European: 22.02
Atlantic Mediteranian: 44.04

The other groups are:
Gedrosia, Siberian, North West African, South East Asian, South Asian, East Asian, South West Asian, East African, Caucasus, Sub Saharan

[Nico Nobrix]

The difference is 3.5% across both, but Portuguese have 7% more African so that counteracts that. Then again North Italians have 15% more Caucasus in this test but Caucasus people have more European characteristics than North Africans. So yeah I really think it's even genetically. Seems silly to feud over such minor details. We are all Europeans!

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Ok, yeah sorry my bad too.

Here is dodecade k12b
Portuguese

North West European: 22.32
Atlantic Mediteranian: 47.55

North Italian

North European: 22.02
Atlantic Mediteranian: 44.04

The other groups are:
Gedrosia, Siberian, North West African, South East Asian, South Asian, East Asian, South West Asian, East African, Caucasus, Sub Saharan

Mine:

Atlantic_Med 40.18
North_European 24.70

My girlfriend:

Atlantic_Med 40.51
North_European 26.25

Caucasus does not have more European characteristics than North African per se, both are Caucasoid components. Modern Berbers nowadays tend to be heavily mixed with SSA though, hence giving the wrong notion that scoring North African gives you less Caucasoid characteristics.

[Cernunnos]

The difference is 3.5% across both, but Portuguese have 7% more African so that counteracts that. Then again North Italians have 15% more Caucasus in this test but Caucasus people have more European characteristics than North Africans. So yeah I really think it's even genetically. Seems silly to feud over such minor details. We are all Europeans!

I think before Islamization, the North Africans were quite more similar to Caucasian peole.

[Nico Nobrix]

Mine:

Atlantic_Med 40.18
North_European 24.70

My girlfriend:

Atlantic_Med 40.51
North_European 26.25

Caucasus does not have more European characteristics than North African per se, both are Caucasoid components. Modern Berbers nowadays tend to be heavily mixed with SSA though, hence giving the wrong notion that scoring North African gives you less Caucasoid characteristics.

Would you agree Viriato, the popular belief misinformation of Portuguese genetics?

Also, wow are those Dodecade k12b results? You and your girlfriend are pretty far shifted on Atlantic Mediteranian than the typical Portuguese, are you from Northern Portugal?

Where did you get the K36 similarity tool?

[Cernunnos]

Eurogenes K13 shows
North Italians
ATLANTIC: 31.68
BALTIC: 11.93

Portuguese
ATLANTIC: 38.54
BALTIC: 11.51

For Portuguese, that is almost a 7 point lead, even when you factor in African differences (leaving West Asian alone), the Portuguese still lead genetically a more Northern European autosomal pie. The only region that beats this is Cataluna and Cantabria by 2%. You confuse mainland Portuguese with Brazilians or other Portuguese colonized people, mainlanders are similar to North Spaniards, arguable central, but not southern, and quite starkly more North European than Italians and somewhat similar to the North of Italy. Again, I'm astonished no one references GEDmatch or Europedia to settle this myth. Unfortunately, Portuguese are too damn reserved to stick up for their ancestral heritage. Instead it's all this crap by geneticists and some of them racists, pointing fingers at Portuguese as being the darkest Europeans and some questioning their legitimacy of being European. I dont have a problem with having non-North European DNA, but to not acknowledge 50% of your dna being of Northern stock is a bit sad! Almost no support. We are boarderline French, particularly Basques and even Catalunians, at least the whole of the peninsula gravitate more to the North than other Southern Europeans can say.

No we are not.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Would you agree Viriato, the popular belief misinformation of Portuguese genetics?

Also, wow are those Dodecade k12b results? You and your girlfriend are pretty far shifted on Atlantic Mediteranian than the typical Portuguese, are you from Northern Portugal?

No, we are from Beira-Baixa (district of Castelo Branco).

[Cernunnos]

Saying that Portuguese are borderline French is the same as saying North Italians are borderline Austrians or Germans, or Greeks being borderline Serbians.

Each ethnic group is different to one another, you might have some French input and usualy you will have some overlap with France but there is much larger ovelap with Italy and Greece than with the French. To not mention Spain.

[Nico Nobrix]

Saying that Portuguese are borderline French is the same as saying North Italians are borderline Austrians or Germans, or Greeks being borderline Serbians.

Each ethnic group is different to one another, you might have some French input and usualy you will have some overlap with France but there is much larger ovelap with Italy and Greece than with the French. To not mention Spain.

True, I just ment on a bigger scale and not considering North Italy. For example me:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.197525
2 Portuguese @ 4.775830
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.019466
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.657891
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.315535
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.342431
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.457965
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.068868
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.446435
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.987102
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.162874
12 Southwest_French @ 11.715899
13 North_Italian @ 12.350068
14 French @ 12.489285
15 Tuscan @ 18.189545
16 South_Dutch @ 19.206604
17 West_German @ 19.292810
18 French_Basque @ 22.340303
19 Southeast_English @ 23.597307
20 Southwest_English @ 24.265493

In my case I really am more similar to French. I'm full Portuguese as far as my paper trail goes.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

We are not that different from the average you presented which states that 69,87% of the average Portuguese genetic profile on Dodecad is Atlantic\North European.

We get 64,88% and 66,76%, our North European is higher than the average but the Atlantic is lower.

[Cernunnos]

True, I just ment on a bigger scale and not considering North Italy. For example me:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.197525
2 Portuguese @ 4.775830
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.019466
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.657891
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.315535
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.342431
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.457965
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.068868
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.446435
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.987102
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.162874
12 Southwest_French @ 11.715899
13 North_Italian @ 12.350068
14 French @ 12.489285
15 Tuscan @ 18.189545
16 South_Dutch @ 19.206604
17 West_German @ 19.292810
18 French_Basque @ 22.340303
19 Southeast_English @ 23.597307
20 Southwest_English @ 24.265493

In my case I really am more similar to French. I'm full Portuguese as far as my paper trail goes.

I think Southwest French being closer to Italians might because they are Ethnic Catalonians (some of them, specialy in Perpignan).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Saying that Portuguese are borderline French is the same as saying North Italians are borderline Austrians or Germans, or Greeks being borderline Serbians.

Each ethnic group is different to one another, you might have some French input and usualy you will have some overlap with France but there is much larger ovelap with Italy and Greece than with the French. To not mention Spain.

I think he was talking about genetics, not anthropologic overlap. Portugueses are indeed close to French (particularly South France) than they are to other Souther East Europeans like Greeks or South Italians.

Here are the populations we are closest to genetically (Global 25)

1 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Extremadura Average 1.473
2 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Average 1.521
3 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Murcia Average 1.647
4 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha Average 1.682
5 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Andalucia Average 1.702
6 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Galicia Average 1.942
7 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Aragon Average 1.974
8 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Cataluna Average 2.008
9 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Baleares Average 2.05
10 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Cantabria Average 2.506
11 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Valencia Average 3.048
12 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Canarias Average 3.48
13 Portuguese:Average French_South Average 3.54
14 Portuguese:Average Italian_Bergamo Average 3.623
15 Portuguese:Average Spanish_Pais_Vasco Average 4.357
16 Portuguese:Average French Average 4.434
17 Portuguese:Average Basque_French Average 4.687
18 Portuguese:Average Basque_Spanish Average 4.815
19 Portuguese:Average Italian_Tuscan Average 4.823
20 Portuguese:Average French_East Average 4.969
21 Portuguese:Average Belgian Average 5.582

[Grace O'Malley]

True, I just ment on a bigger scale and not considering North Italy. For example me:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.197525
2 Portuguese @ 4.775830
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.019466
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.657891
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.315535
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.342431
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.457965
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.068868
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.446435
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.987102
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.162874
12 Southwest_French @ 11.715899
13 North_Italian @ 12.350068
14 French @ 12.489285
15 Tuscan @ 18.189545
16 South_Dutch @ 19.206604
17 West_German @ 19.292810
18 French_Basque @ 22.340303
19 Southeast_English @ 23.597307
20 Southwest_English @ 24.265493

In my case I really am more similar to French. I'm full Portuguese as far as my paper trail goes.

That's not a really close distance though. What's your two-way Oracle results?

[Cernunnos]

@NicoNobrix, are you Portuguese or Portuguese American?

[Erronkari]

In my opinion some of them do, but others look more central - northern european. And others very pan-euro.

[Joso]

Lindsey Lohan

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zUAkEbFCjQE/UkSXNCtovuI/AAAAAAAAF18/FaGjJxqU5JM/s1600/Mariana+Pacheco,+Portuguese_people.jpg

[Nico Nobrix]

That's not a really close distance though. What's your two-way Oracle results?

Yeah the distance is on the higher side because I'm madeiran. But it is still under 5 for Portuguese which is considered a native.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.193868

[Nico Nobrix]

@NicoNobrix, are you Portuguese or Portuguese American?

First born Portuguese American. Parents both both in Portugal so

[Cernunnos]

First born Portuguese American. Parents both both in Portugal so

Azorean?

[Nico Nobrix]

Azorean?

Madeiran

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Yeah the distance is on the higher side because I'm madeiran.

No, you are on pair with Continental Portugueses such as myself :)

Your distance:

14 French @ 12.489285


Mine:

14 French @ 11.368635

Virtually the same.

You are basically the "nightmare" of Sikeliot. He likes to say that Madeirans are significantly different from Continentals whereas you are the living proof that they are not.

[Damião de Góis]

Lindsey Lohan

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zUAkEbFCjQE/UkSXNCtovuI/AAAAAAAAF18/FaGjJxqU5JM/s1600/Mariana+Pacheco,+Portuguese_people.jpg

I fail to see any resemblance:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Go2NIsqP45s/V4yyzx3WFdI/AAAAAAABSIA/0kmcOBVz1qsPsPz9WjCjRFplbiYYFPg0wCLcB/s1600/19614675_jpf1m.png

https://s3.r29static.com//bin/entry/003/340x408,80/1915711/image.jpg

[Nico Nobrix]

No, you are on pair with Continental Portugueses such as myself :)

Your distance:

14 French @ 12.489285


Mine:

14 French @ 11.368635

Virtually the same.

You are basically the "nightmare" of Sikeliot. He likes to say that Madeirans are significantly different from Continentals whereas you are the living proof that they are not.

Yep. The only thing though is my SSA is quite high 2-3% but my haplogroup is G and maternal is H7. Still trying to figure that one out. I guess it's on par with that study they claim "all southern Europeans are 1-3% SSA. I do know that haplogroupG men are mountain men, where peoples like Neolithics who were known to have SSA be able to bunker down in the isolated mountains of North Portugal and Galicia. Yeah Nobrix is made up but its derived from the Celtic name of a Northern Portuguese name I am directly related to but Ill leave it at that to be anonymous. But as far as I know I have at least 4 generations on both sides of the family being in Madeira, and my mothers side being one of the first Madeirans

[FilhoV]

Yep. The only thing though is my SSA is quite high 2-3% but my haplogroup is G and maternal is H7. Still trying to figure that one out. I guess it's on par with that study they claim "all southern Europeans are 1-3% SSA. I do know that haplogroupG men are mountain men, where peoples like Neolithics who were known to have SSA be able to bunker down in the isolated mountains of North Portugal and Galicia. Yeah Nobrix is made up but its derived from the Celtic name of a Northern Portuguese name I am directly related to but Ill leave it at that to be anonymous. But as far as I know I have at least 4 generations on both sides of the family being in Madeira, and my mothers side being one of the first Madeirans

You have the same Haplogroup as me interesting

[Iloko]

yeah definitely! it must be that shared Celtic origin I guess!

[The Blade]

Some pass but not all of them.

[Nico Nobrix]

You have the same Haplogroup as me interesting

Yes, like I said the mountains of Iberia harbor the most haplogroup G men, seeing from your Asturian based that makes sense. Interesting you did not show Irish or British in myheritage. What is your score for K13?

[FilhoV]

Yes, like I said the mountains of Iberia harbor the most haplogroup G men, seeing from your Asturian based that makes sense. Interesting you did not show Irish or British in myheritage. What is your score for K13?

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 37.18
2 West_Med 26.89
3 East_Med 14.93
4 Baltic 9.47
5 West_Asian 3.35
6 Red_Sea 3.3
7 Northeast_African 2.45
8 Sub-Saharan 2.2
9 Oceanian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 2.57
2 Portuguese 3.37
3 Spanish_Murcia 3.74
4 Spanish_Andalucia 4
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.53
6 Spanish_Galicia 4.68
7 Spanish_Valencia 4.94
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.02
9 Spanish_Cataluna 5.75
10 Spanish_Cantabria 7.02
11 Spanish_Aragon 7.9
12 North_Italian 8.19
13 Southwest_French 9.52
14 French 12.16
15 Tuscan 13.65
16 West_German 18.27
17 South_Dutch 18.27
18 French_Basque 19.58
19 West_Sicilian 19.94
20 Italian_Abruzzo 20.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 2.3% Sandawe @ 1.85
2 84.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.2% Moroccan @ 1.87
3 98% Spanish_Extremadura + 2% Sudanese @ 1.87
4 98% Spanish_Extremadura + 2% Ethiopian_Anuak @ 1.88
5 84.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.3% Mozabite_Berber @ 1.92