Christians try to remove atheist from City Council in North Carolina

[Thorum]

Well, is this really any surprise? Religion has been shoving it's beliefs on others for centuries...The USA is actually very close to a religious theocracy.

AzVBF8B4ius

:cool:

[Loki]

The USA is actually very close to a religious theocracy.


True! And no wonder that rationality takes a step back so often.

[Lars]

Doesn't sound like it's going to be a problem at all according to that woman. However, I do fear this case and similar future cases, which will happen, will end up in long court battles.
Speaking of faith and the absence of the same thing, USA and Northern Europe truly are like two different planets.

[Anthropos]

I don't think that the ultraprotestantic so-called spirituality that is typical of America has any right to be Christianity. Rejection of tradition means severance from the body of Christianity. Many of these American Protestants will say that traditional Christians are not Christians, but they will back it up with a completely different argument.

America may be a 'theocracy' of sorts, but it should at once be acknowledged that the U. S. of A. is one of the most antitraditional countries in the world and that she has nothing in common with traditional Christian civilisation. The U. S. of A. was founded by Protestants on a Protestantism of a quite reckless sort, and the modern myth to the effect that America is the only country truly blessed by God lives on. Protestantism, by her severance from tradition, opens up for and inevitably leads to perversions.

[Thorum]

...traditional Christian civilisation.

Let's not forget that "traditional Christian civilisation" was born in the Middle East then invaded, wrecked and shattered traditional European life and culture. Now that that is completed, it is now Islam's turn...

[Murphy]

If they don't want n atheist on their city council, who are you to object? What if atheists-and they do all too often-wanted a Chritian off a city council for being Christian?


Let's not forget that "traditional Christian civilisation" was born in the Middle East then invaded, wrecked and shattered traditional European life and culture. Now that that is completed, it is now Islam's turn...

Typical uneducated and lazy attack :rolleyes:.

Regards,
The Papist.

[Thorum]

Gee, what does that mean? Sorry, I don't understand. I am confused. Can you help me?

http://www.therossman.com/mail/images/retard2.jpg

[Jamt]

Good people the North Carolinans!

[Cato]

Well, is this really any surprise? Religion has been shoving it's beliefs on others for centuries...The USA is actually very close to a religious theocracy.

Oh come on, do you really believe that old yarn? That's about as true as what the Biblebeaters say when they constantly put forth that the godless atheists are taking over the country.

:eek::rolleyes:

[Thorum]

Yes.

[Svipdag]

"Religious theocracy" is redundant. By definition, a theocracy is ruled by a god or by a priesthood claiming divine authority.

[Cato]

Yes.

It's not true at all my friend. My relatives are almost all uniformly Christian of some sort and, with the exception of my dipshit fundie uncle and his wife, none of them are rabid theocrats. :)

[Thorum]

http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/dollarcoin2.jpg

In God We Trust is the official motto of the United States...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg

The original motto of the United States was secular. "E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts."

[SwordoftheVistula]

If they don't want n atheist on their city council, who are you to object?

Because the Christian fundamentalists are trying to circumvent the democratic process and remove someone who was properly elected to city council by using an invalid legal argument.

[Cato]

http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/dollarcoin2.jpg

In God We Trust is the official motto of the United States...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg

The original motto of the United States was secular. "E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts."

The Declaration mentions that all men are created equal- by whom, a random scattering of atoms and a few atheistic notions of science defeating the idea of the Creator? It also mentions Nature's God, which is who exactly? Richard Dawkins and the haw-haw crowd that hangs on his every word?

Just because you don't like the word God don't be a grinch about it. Stop grumbling and stop trying to ignore the obvious respect for the Deity that the Founders had. Atheists always warble on about the Founders and this and that that they supposedly believed- all the while blatantly ignoring that these men weren't atheists at all, but merely awares of the need for a division between church and state.

President Washington, bless the fellow, said in his farewell address in 1796 that the presence of religion in society creates strong public morality. The opposite then, using his point of view, would be that the lack of it ruins public morality. I'm no friend of the Christians, but I agree quite strongly with his position- that the lack of a proper fear of heaven, so to speak, is one of the main causes for all of the nebulous morality, faggotry, effeminacy and cultism at work in modern society.

Full text of the first president's farewell address to the then-new republic:

http://www.bartleby.com/43/24.html

The Romans called it mos maiorum, the customs of the ancestors. I find it laughable that many of the very customs, such as religion of some sort, that strengthed our ancestors are so scorned today by their progeny. Is it any wonder why whites today are in such a wretched and pathetic shambles and why our countries are rife with decay?

[Thorum]

Ever hear of "separation of church and State"? That is the whole point of this thread. Not to feel warm and fuzzy accepting your ridiculous supernatural delusions...

[Cail]

I'm no friend of the Christians, but I agree quite strongly with his position- that the lack of a proper fear of heaven, so to speak, is one of the main causes for all of the nebulous morality, faggotry, effeminacy and cultism at work in modern society.

But obviously any organized (formal) religion is just a form of mental oppression? Some norms/laws/facts, unproved and often ridiculously retarded ones are enforced on unwilling people because of a)stupid traditions and b) sincere faith of many intellectually challenged people coming from their inability to comprehend universum critically (and, what's worst, the society of such individuals also wills to enforce it).

Thus, even if we admit that this influence can be positive in some (including those you mentioned) aspects, (which is challengeable, but none the less, lets just assume) - we therefore state that people are idiots (in the original sense - people that can't be trusted with their own will) and have to be controlled by any means necessary. That is actually quite insulting and an affront to European culture.

[Hrolf Kraki]

I don't think that the ultraprotestantic so-called spirituality that is typical of America has any right to be Christianity. Rejection of tradition means severance from the body of Christianity. Many of these American Protestants will say that traditional Christians are not Christians, but they will back it up with a completely different argument.

America may be a 'theocracy' of sorts, but it should at once be acknowledged that the U. S. of A. is one of the most antitraditional countries in the world and that she has nothing in common with traditional Christian civilisation. The U. S. of A. was founded by Protestants on a Protestantism of a quite reckless sort, and the modern myth to the effect that America is the only country truly blessed by God lives on. Protestantism, by her severance from tradition, opens up for and inevitably leads to perversions.


Thomas Jefferson as well as many of the most prominent founding fathers spoke out against organized religion and were in fact deists.

Protestantism does lead to perversions, but just different sorts, as the Catholic Church has plenty of perversions to go around.

[Murphy]

Protestantism does lead to perversions, but just different sorts, as the Catholic Church has plenty of perversions to go around.

Anthro' is a Byzantine, attacking the Catholic Church wont bother him :).

Regards,
The Papist.

[Cato]

Ever hear of "separation of church and State"? That is the whole point of this thread. Not to feel warm and fuzzy accepting your ridiculous supernatural delusions...

Thor,

You use a quote of by Tom Paine as your sig, out of Age of Reason I believe, but Tom Paine was a deist who believed in the same Nature's God mentioned by Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence. :) None of the Founding Fathers were atheists; they were observant men in their own way. Two+ centuries of hogwashed whitewashing by atheists about a complete and total division of religious morals and society, or the Christian version that the country is founded on "biblical values," won't deny that the founders of the American republic (and citizens of the founding era) were all strong proponents of the word "God." It's in Age of Reason and The Jefferson Bible, Franklin's autobiography, many of Washington's speeches, such as when he speaks strongly of divine providence, Ethan Allen's writings, etc.

Supernatural delusions hehe; have you even read Age of Reason? Paine didn't accept the fables of the Bible as he didn't accept the fables of the Greeks and Romans, and that man was no fool. Tindal's Christianity as Old as Creation? Any of Voltaire or the classical philosophers that these Enlightenment-era thinkers were deeply rooted in? How horrid that secularly brilliant men like Isaac Newton and Leonardo Davinci believed in God; and how horrid that politically brilliant men like the Founding Fathers of America believed in God as well.

[Smaland]

The United States Constitution, Article 6, Paragraphs 2 and 3, are as follows:

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

***************

This is a key question: what is the exact meaning of "the United States", as used in Paragraph 3? Does it refer to the federal government only, or does it also refer to every state and local government?

This paragraph clearly distinguishes between "the United States" and "the several States (individual states)". Therefore, "the United States" refers to the federal government only. The last section of the paragraph does forbid religious tests, but only for "any Office or public Trust under the United States." In other words, religious tests are disallowed only for federal offices. The paragraph is silent about the same for state or local offices.

If the Constitution is silent on an issue, then there is nothing in it to rank above state constitutions, state statutes, or local ordinances. It cannot be supreme when it has nothing to say. In that case, any relevant state or local law remains in effect, including Article 6, Section 8, Paragraph 1 of the North Carolina Constitution.

It states that "The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God." Since Mr. Bothwell is an atheist, it follows that he is ineligible to serve on the Asheville City Council.

[SwordoftheVistula]

But the 1st Amendment prohibits 'establishment of religion' and the 14th Amendment extends these restrictions against the states.

Maryland's state constitution used to have a similar provision, and was ruled invalid by the Supreme Court in 1961 :

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=367&invol=488

[Thorum]

http://www.biblen.info/Images/jesus-himmel.jpg

[Thorum]

http://www.biblen.info/Galleri/Full/kreationisme-kansas.jpg

[Hrolf Kraki]

http://www.biblen.info/Galleri/Full/kreationisme-kansas.jpg

Our capital city is around 60% nutcase. I think one would be able to infer this quite quickly just upon arriving there. It's a dump!