Non-Euro genes in south Europeans (percent of West Asian, South-west Asian, and North African)

[GrebluBro]

Population East-Euro W-Euro Mediterr W.Asian SW.Asian N-African
North Italian 5.7 33.5 44.7 12.9 2.8 0.1
Sardinian 0 30.3 55.5 4.6 6.2 3.3
Central Italian (Tuscan) 3.7 25.8 47.8 17.3 4.3 0.3
S.Italian 3.1 12 46.8 26 8.6 1.6
Sicilian 4.1 14.5 43.3 23 9.3 3.1
Greek 11 13.5 41.9 25.7 6.8 0.5
Jews (AJ) 4.8 19.8 33.1 23.8 12.1 3
Cypriots 3.4 1.3 42.9 35.1 15.9 0.4
Lebanon 2.5 1.2 28.8 32.4 23.9 2.2
Turks 5.6 7 28.5 41.5 8.9 0.4
Portuguese 2.1 39.4 42.6 3.6 2.6 6.8
Spanish 1 42.3 47.5 3.3 1.8 2.2





I considered Lebanon & Turks for comparison purpose

They all got South-Asian and Mongoloid genes too, just like North & East Euros


W./SW.Asian => West/south-west Asian; N.African => North African

Source:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&authkey=COCa89AJ&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

[Atlantic Islander]

Which spreadsheet? Thanks.

[GrebluBro]

Which spreadsheet? Thanks.

I added it..

[Atlantic Islander]

I added it..

Oh, it's V3. The run that tries to call me French.

[GrebluBro]

Oh, it's V3. The run that tries to call me French.

It's fantastic Spreadsheet..Its genetic results comply with phenotype perfectly if we talk racially (not sure about ethnicity)

I believe you're are lighter than average Portuguese

[Trun]

Bulgarians have similar percentage to that of Tuscans.

[Sikeliot]

Interesting how Cypriots have almost no East nor West Euro, and Greeks have a bit of both.. this is a strong sign that Cypriots don't have much Greek in them at all.

Sicilians and Greeks match very closely EXCEPT the East Euro, SW Asian, and NW African.

[Tooting Carmen]

Interesting results.

[Tropico]

Southern Europeans have from 0-decent non European admixture. I think the ones where it's significant would be Sicily, Malta, Southern Italy, etc.

[GrebluBro]

Interesting results.

I'm not surprised at all cuz their phenotype matches genotype always

I added North/East Euro results here with emphasis on Mongoloid & South Asian genes (but you can see West, south-West Asains & N.African genes if you follow order)
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118383-North-East-Euros-with-Mongoloid-and-South-Asian-genes-in-percent

[Atlantic Islander]

It's fantastic Spreadsheet..Its genetic results comply with phenotype perfectly if we talk racially (not sure about ethnicity)

I believe you're are lighter than average Portuguese

No, I'm not lighter.

I don't like that this run tries to call me French, it's not accurate for me personally. The best imo is Eurogenes EUtest or Eurogenes V2 K15, but it's different for everyone. What's accurate for some is not accurate for others.

[GrebluBro]

No, I'm not lighter.

I don't like that this run tries to call me French, it's not accurate for me personally. The best imo is Eurogenes EUtest or Eurogenes V2 K15, but it's different for everyone. What's accurate for some is not accurate for others.

I posted average results..you could be in lower or upper end of any ethnic mix

[Smeagol]

[B]They all got South-Asian and Mongoloid genes too, just like North & East Euros

No they don't. The other spreadsheets don't show this. Also, West Asian isn't really non-European, it actually peaks in the Caucasus, especially Georgia.

[GrebluBro]

No they don't. The other spreadsheets don't show this. Also, West Asian isn't really non-European, it actually peaks in the Caucasus, especially Georgia.

I personally consider West Asian genes as European too :thumb001:

[Trun]

It's quite interesting how the difference between Bulgarians and Tuscans comes only from East Euro and Med. The rest are almost equal.

[Smeagol]

I personally consider West Asian genes as European too :thumb001:

I mean, ultimately it comes from outside of Europe, but has been very important in Europe since neolithic times, and anyway, the only truly indigenous races in Europe are the Cromagnoids..

[Damião de Góis]

I wouldn't say West Asian is european. It's very high outside of Europe and pretty low in Europe.

[GrebluBro]

I wouldn't say West Asian is european. It's very high outside of Europe and pretty low in Europe.

Following ethnicities are kinda founding fathers of Europe and got double-digit West Asian genes

North Italian 12.9
Central Italian (Tuscan) 17.3
Sicilian 23
Greek 25.7

[Tooting Carmen]

I wouldn't say West Asian is european. It's very high outside of Europe and pretty low in most of Europe.

Fixed. Otherwise, I agree.:)

[Damião de Góis]

Following ethnicities are kinda founding fathers of Europe and got double-digit West Asian genes

North Italian 12.9
Central Italian (Tuscan) 17.3
Sicilian 23
Greek 25.7

I have higher West Asian than average at 6.9, but considering that Kurds score 40 while Germans (for example) score 6.. it can't be european can it? On the other hand Germans score 50 West European while Kurds score 7. West European is clearly an european component.
The fact that some countries score more than 10 doesn't make it european. Just my opinion.

[GrebluBro]

Bulgarians have similar percentage to that of Tuscans.

Order: East Euro, West Euro, Med, West Asian, South-West Asian, North African, South Asian, N.Mongoloid, S.Mongoloid

Tuscans 3.7 25.8 47.8 17.3 4.3 0.3 0.5 0.1 0.2
Bulgarian 21.6 22.3 32.1 18.1 4.3 0.3 0.3 0.5 0.5

=> Bulgarians got more Eastern Euro while Tuscans are more Med (other genetic mix is pretty much same)

[GrebluBro]

I have higher West Asian than average at 6.9, but considering that Kurds score 40 while Germans (for example) score 6.. it can't be european can it? On the other hand Germans score 50 West European while Kurds score 7. West European is clearly an european component.
The fact that some countries score more than 10 doesn't make it european. Just my opinion.

Portuguese got 3.6% West Asian..Cypriots got 35.1%, Lebanon got 32.4%

Some Greeks and Sicilians don't European mostly cuz of too high non-Euro omponent..May be West Euro + East Euro + Med total percent must be at least 65% to look European :shrug:

[Smeagol]

Portuguese got 3.6% West Asian..

Some Greeks and Sicilians don't European mostly cuz of too high non-Euro omponent..May be West Euro + East Euro + Med total percent must be at least 65% :shrug:

The only reason some Greeks, and Sicilians wouldn't look European, is because of historical migrations, especially Roman era slavery (which would have spread Southwest Asian genes, different from West Asian). The Neolithic Farmers were Mediterranids predominantly, and were racially closer to modern Southern Europeans than to modern Middle Easterners.

[Damião de Góis]

Portuguese got 3.6% West Asian..Cypriots got 35.1%, Lebanon got 32.4%

Some Greeks and Sicilians don't European mostly cuz of too high non-Euro omponent..May be West Euro + East Euro + Med total percent must be at least 65% :shrug:

Don't know about that. People from the same ethnicity who look completely different score the same on these genetic runs. So these components don't affect how people look, just where people fall on genetic plots.

[GrebluBro]

Don't know about that. People from the same ethnicity who look completely different score the same on these genetic runs. So these components don't affect how people look, just where people fall on genetic plots.

I agree..we should look on macro (not micro) level..

For instance, majority of people with 50% or more West Asian won't look Euro and only minority do

[GrebluBro]

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[GrebluBro]

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[GrebluBro]

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[Sikeliot]

Do you have results for mainland southern Italians?

[cally]

Edit

[GrebluBro]

//

Yep..

The only difference is you got slightly more Western and less Med comparing to average Greek

[GrebluBro]

Do you have results for mainland southern Italians?

I added Sardinian and S.Italian (Calabria most likely)

[GrebluBro]

bump

[wvwvw]

...

[GrebluBro]

...

What was that you posted?

Did you say Greeks are whiter than Albanians? :confused:

[cally]

Yep..

The only difference is you got slightly more Western and less Med comparing to average Greek
Here is another Albanian from Kosovo:
# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 33.72
2 West_European 26.93
3 West_Asian 20.43
4 East_European 13.59
5 Southwest_Asian 4.88

As you can see I'm a lot more "Southern" than them.

[Kastrioti1443]

West Asian is a '' european'' component if there is a such a thing as true european genes. West Asian originates in todays Northern Cuacasus and peaks among people like Georgians and Chechens who in a lot of cases are paler and more depigmented than south europeans in features, some of them even pan european.

[Insuperable]

The only reason some Greeks, and Sicilians wouldn't look European, is because of historical migrations, especially Roman era slavery (which would have spread Southwest Asian genes, different from West Asian). The Neolithic Farmers were Mediterranids predominantly, and were racially closer to modern Southern Europeans than to modern Middle Easterners.

SWA was present in Europe before WA which is due to later neolithic migrations. Oetzi scores 7.6% SWA on one of Dodecad calculators (and 15.9% on Eurogenes globe 13 http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/12/brana-1-had-blue-eyes.html - written in comments ). Don't tell me that is from Roman era slavery too.

[Raikaswinþs]

I think that this board really needs a discussion into what it means to be European. Some threads like this make questions that are scientifically useless and philosophically absurd.

This said I will proceed to describe what in my opinion means being European. Take the darkest Sicilian or Sardinian that you can find. One that scores 25% West Asian for example and 5% North African. He or she has been born in his or hers mediterranean island, as their parents and the parents of their parents until time immemorial. He is therefore by definition an European. 100% European. Now think of a Nordid Asian or New Worlder who's ancestors originated from the same place than modern Europeans centuries or even millennia ago, but they are natives to Kazakhstan, South Africa or the United States. These are not European, they are Europids . The South African of English descent /Cuban Criollo. etc will be the closest to being an European as those are countries with direct and recent connection with European civilisational inflow. The North American of English, Irish, German and Cherokee will be an Europoid, but he too is completely un-european. In a sense, even a half nigerian-half german, born and raised in Germany is more European than the new worlder because it isn't only blood, but nationality, and context that makes him an European. A fair kazakh with light features not reminiscent of the Soviet Period, but of ancient Indo-European/ Turkic exchanges in Central asia, is, in practical terms, as foreign to Europe as a Bantu or a Quechua.

Europeanness is based in 4 pillars : Blood (51% minimum to qualify) Soil (Must be born and raised in Europe to qualify) Nationality (must have a European passport as the first passport ever expedited to your persona) and Soul/Spirit (must adhere both to the commonalities of contemporary modern Europe as well as to their own regional particularities)

A Muslim Bosnian therefore would be 100%European (all pillars qualify)

A half nigerian/half german born and raised in germany and culturally german, falls just shy of qualify. 5% of blood would raise his bar from 75% to 100%. This is only for extract purists, for all practical purposes , this person is 100% Euro.

A somali muslim refugee in Stockholm who has obtained citizenship after prolonged stay in Sweden: Does not qualify (0%)

A British muslim of pakistani descent. Such as annoying tv pundit Mehdi Hassan: Does not qualify .Born and raised in Europe and having a European nationality, but having presumedly no European blood and adhere to (and lobby for) a non-European supremacist cult renders this a clear non European for most practical purposes.

A 100% white with perfect nordic phenotype dixie from Georgia would be 25% European and falls very far behind the also non-qualifying nigerodeutch. Bellow Mehdi Hassan and the Nigerian/German and at the same level than the Somali Refugee.And the Somali refugee at least (perhaps regrettably for some) lives in Europe.

Being European means just BEING EUROPEAN, it does not mean feeling European, or having european blood or even living in Europe. All those things of course are parts of the european Ethos but they are not on their own capable of providing a person with Europeaness. This, which seems so obvious for every other civilisation, seems to be a very delicate issue when it comes to Europe. Lots of insecurities...

[Raikaswinþs]

bluf

[Kastrioti1443]

Here is another Albanian from Kosovo:
# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 33.72
2 West_European 26.93
3 West_Asian 20.43
4 East_European 13.59
5 Southwest_Asian 4.88

As you can see I'm a lot more "Southern" than them.

This again proves that genotype =/= phenotype.

[cally]

This again proves that genotype =/= phenotype.

Well maybe I exaggerated the significance of it. There is a lot of variation even between families so I don't think it's that significant I think.

[Ernesto Grandi]

in MDLP World-22 I get 0,16% of Pygmy and 0,19% in Harappa World.
Pygmy instead of a more general "african" is always the biggest value i get in calculators.
so.. is it really a direct genuine pygmy admixture?

[GrebluBro]

This again proves that genotype =/= phenotype.

Phenotype and genotype are indeed correlated but not precisely..

We can't be sure about phenotype when genetic mix is 10% or 50% South Asian genes with the rest being Euro genes

But we can be sure if South Asian genes is 75% or more..

[GrebluBro]

in MDLP World-22 I get 0,16% of Pygmy and 0,19% in Harappa World.
Pygmy instead of a more general "african" is always the biggest value i get in calculators.
so.. is it really a direct genuine pygmy admixture?

I took this Troll's shit for real

[GrebluBro]

bump

[Stormer99]

Oh, it's V3. The run that tries to call me French.

Iberians in general can cluster anywhere from France to Northern Italy

[GrebluBro]

^I second that

[GrebluBro]

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[Atlantic Islander]

Iberians in general can cluster anywhere from France to Northern Italy

V3 is still rubbish. Eurogenes is better.

[Peyrol]

It's quite interesting how the difference between Bulgarians and Tuscans comes only from East Euro and Med. The rest are almost equal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_origins

[Argang]

^I second that

Iberians (excluding Basques of course) cluster together and their overlap with French and Italians is pretty much nonexistent. This is a comprehensive PCA of West Eurasian populations where it can be seen, very few are outside the main Iberian cluster.

http://s18.postimg.org/4ee6wm713/weurpca.png

Non-eurogenes calculators suffer from calculator effect (http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/beware-calculator-effect.html) which means distorted results for people who weren't in the original project. Dodecad v3 and k12b are also getting dated.

[GrebluBro]

V3 is still rubbish. Eurogenes is better.

Could you give me a link of it?

Any doc which talks about genetic mix of many ethnicities

[Atlantic Islander]

Could you give me a link of it?

Any doc which talks about genetic mix of many ethnicities

http://bga101.blogspot.com/

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Urbanuss]

Nice data!

But according to some Italian TA anthrotards, North Italians are "pure", dont have any non-euro admix and Iberians are "half-moorish mongrels" lol.