Crimea's super-democratic and totally legal referendum

[Longbowman]

...is not going to include a 'actually, I'd like things to remain as they are' option.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26546133

Crimea will effectively be part of Russia or Russian-dominated. The people aren't getting a choice.

[epirot]

The people aren't getting a choice.

At least a referendum saves some face, in contrast to the complete anarchic coup the NAZI-NATO thugs caused in Kiev.
In Crimea ppl *will* get a choice , but even if some of them were favoring "autonomism" from both Kiev and Moscow, they will surely side with Moscow to save their heads from the NAZI thugs of Maidan.

In fact, if NAZI-NATO were confident about public support in western Ukraine they would organize elections right away... Apparently they are afraid of the result. Most probably there will be elections in Ukraine only after they secure (via threatening, bribing , etc...) the result they want, and this might take a long time...

Sad times for Ukraine...

I just hope the best for this nation....

[Selurong]

What the West has done in Ukraine was to stage a coup that forced a legitimately elected president from power.

[RandoBloom]

What the West has done in Ukraine was to stage a coup that forced a legitimately elected president from power.

A President who put interests of Russia ahead of interests of his people

[Selurong]

A President who put interests of Russia ahead of interests of his people

The people elected him. I don't recognize a government formed out of extra-constitutional methods, legitimate.

All this bickering between the West and Russia over Ukraine will only impoverish Ukraine and set off a cycle of revolutions and counter-revolutions.

Things would have been way better and stable if people simply followed the rule of law, waited for the next elections and voiced their dissent peacefully rather than succumb to a bloody uprising.

Personally, I consider both Russia and the West, evil, for playing chess over Ukraine and treating the people as some sort of paws.

[Trun]

All this bickering between the West and Russia will only impoverish Ukraine and set off a cycle of revolutions and counter-revolutions. Things would have been way better and stable if people simply followed the rule of law, waited for the next elections and voiced their dissent peacefully rather than succumb to a bloody uprising.

They are just fed up of being puppets. They aren't blind to see these leeches have been collecting wealth on their expense.

[Selurong]

They are just fed up of being puppets. They aren't blind to see these leeches have been collecting wealth on their expense.

Would Ukraine prefer to be a puppet of Europe or a puppet of Russia?

Since those two powers don't seem to respect Ukraine's inherent sovereignty anyway.

[Trun]

Would Ukraine prefer to be a puppet of Europe or a puppet of Russia?

Countries like Ukraine are destined to be puppets. What people need is to live well, not day for day and count their hryvnas.

[RandoBloom]

The people elected him. I don't recognize a government formed out of extra-constitutional methods, legitimate.

All this bickering between the West and Russia over Ukraine will only impoverish Ukraine and set off a cycle of revolutions and counter-revolutions.

Things would have been way better and stable if people simply followed the rule of law, waited for the next elections and voiced their dissent peacefully rather than succumb to a bloody uprising.

Personally, I consider both Russia and the West, evil, for playing chess over Ukraine and treating the people as some sort of paws.

If he was ousted in elections and they proceded to follow EU path, like previous time, the Russia would again intervene. Remember what hapened last time?
Russia cut off all the gas, all economic ties and blockaded Ukraine.
Russia is a bully

[Selurong]

If he was ousted in elections and they proceded to follow EU path, like previous time, the Russia would again intervene. Remember what hapened last time?
Russia cut off all the gas, all economic ties and blockaded Ukraine.
Russia is a bully

Poor Ukraine. Bullied by Russia & bullied by the west. Everyone should just stop picking on poor Ukraine please.

[Astronaut]

What the West has done in Ukraine was to stage a coup that forced a legitimately elected president from power.

When a legitimate president amasses wealth and plunders his country at the cost of his people, he is no longer a "democratically elected president",rather a tyrant.Even Hitler came to power through democratic means.

[Selurong]

When a legitimate president amasses wealth and plunders his country at the cost of his people, he is no longer a "democratically elected president",rather a tyrant.Even Hitler came to power through democratic means.

Then don't vote for him in the next election or try him at court instead of causing a bloody uprising which will destabilize the whole country.

[Astronaut]

Then don't vote for him in the next election or try him at court instead of causing a bloody uprising which will destabilize the whole country.

An uprising shows deep sense of dissatisfaction against their elected representatives.When leaders don't listen to their people,an uprising is inevitable. It was amply clear that the overwhelming majority of the population wanted to be EU than Russia,still then the leadership chose to go with Russia.

[Selurong]

An uprising shows deep sense of dissatisfaction against their elected representatives.When leaders don't listen to their people,an uprising is inevitable. It was amply clear that the overwhelming majority of the population wanted to be EU than Russia,still then the leadership chose to go with Russia.

If people make a violent uprising every time a bureaucrat farted, then Ukraine shall be a second Thailand.

[epirot]

Personally, I consider both Russia and the West, evil, for playing chess over Ukraine and treating the people as some sort of paws.

Hmm consider this hypothesis:
People in USA are in a tragic situation, many of them leave for Asia, China, Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc... to find jobs.
Texas is even worse. Texas believes that NY or CA are taking all the money and resources , so they organize some independence.
Above the originators and orchestrators are Bulgarians, Serbs and Russians. Serb MPs are photographed giving speeches and weapons to the rebels!
Washington send their troops to preserve peace... Washington is accused of being fascist, NAZI, the worse thing after Hitler, bla bla bla..

And then come some guy like you who say : Both USA and Russia are evil!!!

I mean, lets get down to earth. THE WEST AND ONLY THE WEST IS THE EVIL HERE and for the last 200 years.

[Longbowman]

At least a referendum saves some face, in contrast to the complete anarchic coup the NAZI-NATO thugs caused in Kiev.
In Crimea ppl *will* get a choice , but even if some of them were favoring "autonomism" from both Kiev and Moscow, they will surely side with Moscow to save their heads from the NAZI thugs of Maidan.

In fact, if NAZI-NATO were confident about public support in western Ukraine they would organize elections right away... Apparently they are afraid of the result. Most probably there will be elections in Ukraine only after they secure (via threatening, bribing , etc...) the result they want, and this might take a long time...

Sad times for Ukraine...

I just hope the best for this nation....

It's like a Chinese election, there's no real choice.

As for your Nazi/NATO thing, I'm going to ignore you, because you're an idiot.

[Longbowman]

What the West has done in Ukraine was to stage a coup that forced a legitimately elected president from power.

The West staged nothing. It happened organically. Democratic right of recall - if your president is a lying, corrupt thief, he deserves to be impeached, right?

[Longbowman]

Would Ukraine prefer to be a puppet of Europe or a puppet of Russia?

Since those two powers don't seem to respect Ukraine's inherent sovereignty anyway.

Seemingly they'd prefer the EU. So that's what should happen.

And Yanokuvych lost legitimacy in the same way Nixon did.

[Longbowman]

Hmm consider this hypothesis:
People in USA are in a tragic situation, many of them leave for Asia, China, Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc... to find jobs.
Texas is even worse. Texas believes that NY or CA are taking all the money and resources , so they organize some independence.
Above the originators and orchestrators are Bulgarians, Serbs and Russians. Serb MPs are photographed giving speeches and weapons to the rebels!
Washington send their troops to preserve peace... Washington is accused of being fascist, NAZI, the worse thing after Hitler, bla bla bla..

And then come some guy like you who say : Both USA and Russia are evil!!!

I mean, lets get down to earth. THE WEST AND ONLY THE WEST IS THE EVIL HERE and for the last 200 years.

Except that analogy is terrible.

Russia is ruled by - well, I don't believe in evil, but a power-hungry man who disappears people - as do the Crimean authorities - and imprisons them on flimsy charges, overrules the constitution to serve more terms, bullies other, smaller countries - like Ukraine - bloody invades them, too.

The US hasn't been photographed doing anything, it's all easily upset Russian propaganda.

[Selurong]

The West staged nothing. It happened organically. Democratic right of recall - if your president is a lying, corrupt thief, he deserves to be impeached, right?

Sure. When did they set a court hearing to impeach him? That would make it legit, instead of going the way of; "Hey! lets do a bloody uprising revolution lolz!!"

[Longbowman]

Sure. When did they set a court hearing to impeach him? That would make it legit, instead of going the way of; "Hey! lets do a bloody uprising revolution lolz!!"

Except this isn't America and he simply would have arrested them. Sorry mate.

[Selurong]

Seemingly they'd prefer the EU. So that's what should happen.

And Yanokuvych lost legitimacy in the same way Nixon did.

Then if the people wanted to be in the EU then go go go!
I just dislike the violent methodology of it all.

Gandhi and Aung San Syu Kyi has had accomplished more, with less.

[RandoBloom]

Poor Ukraine. Bullied by Russia & bullied by the west. Everyone should just stop picking on poor Ukraine please.

How did west bully Ukraine?

[epirot]

because you're an idiot.

better than an hypocrite my little troll.

[RandoBloom]

Poor Ukraine. Bullied by Russia & bullied by the west. Everyone should just stop picking on poor Ukraine please.


Then if the people wanted to be in the EU then go go go!
I just dislike the violent methodology of it all.

Gandhi and Aung San Syu Kyi has had accomplished more, with less.

Last time they did that Russia blocked them, cut off all the gas and oil and caused extensive problems from which Ukraine still didnt recover.

[epirot]

Except that analogy is terrible.

Russia is ruled by - well, I don't believe in evil, but a power-hungry man who disappears people - as do the Crimean authorities - and imprisons them on flimsy charges, overrules the constitution to serve more terms, bullies other, smaller countries - like Ukraine - bloody invades them, too.

The US hasn't been photographed doing anything, it's all easily upset Russian propaganda.

You are an idiot.
As for your US being photographed, take this :
https://www.google.com/search?q=McCane+Tinybook&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=B-AiU4GOOsXLtAb3zoDoAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1150&bih=693#q=McCain+ukraine+svoboda&spell=1&tbm=isch

Can really Google Images be taken over by Russian propaganda? You are such an IDIOT, STUPID DUMP MORON and IMBECILE as well..

[Selurong]

Except this isn't America and he simply would have arrested them. Sorry mate.

What I'm afraid of is that once revolution is set alight and cannot be stabilized, it turns into a revolving wheel as in the case of Egypt wherein one party removes another through revolution and then another, through another revolution. The revolutions and counter revolutions will inevitably impoverish the people since stability is necessary to prosperity. It might turn into a Latin-American banana Republic with revolutions every generation, galore.

Stability is necessary for prosperity. Lee Kuan Yew and Park ruled Singapore and Seoul with an iron fist as bloody dictators and yet now, because of the peace they afforded; Seoul and Singapore are in prosperity.

In contrast, because us Filipinos are so freedom loving and political we have been at table with everybody from the Chinese Triads to Al-Quiada and the Americans. All of which have constantly interfered with the Philippine situation and no matter how many guns, revolutions and uprisings there are, "In quest of Freedom and Liberty", if there is no stability then there can be no progress.

Eventually, only the people will suffer with these revolutions.

[epirot]

Then if the people wanted to be in the EU then go go go!


You realize that Ukrainian language is 99.99% identical with Russian, belong to the largest family of Indo-european languages the SLAVIC languages + the constant foe of the Slavs have been the Germans and Saxons....

Taking into account that Saxons/Germans dominate EU.... i would only pray for Ukraine to stay in brotherly RUSSIAN hands....

[Selurong]

Last time they did that Russia blocked them, cut off all the gas and oil and caused extensive problems from which Ukraine still didnt recover.

Surely there are peaceful alternatives. According to Saint Augustine's Just War Theory, violence should only be employed if the cause is noble and blood-shed unavoidable.

[Trun]

You realize that Ukrainian language is 99.99% identical with Russian, belong to the largest family of Indo-european languages the SLAVIC languages + the constant foe of the Slavs have been the Germans and Saxons....

Taking into account that Saxons/Germans dominate EU.... i would only pray for Ukraine to stay in brotherly RUSSIAN hands....

You do realize you sound as ridiculous as one could be, don't you?

[Selurong]

I don't like the way Americans, Russians and Europeans basically export and support revolutions the world over, yet doesn't support uprisings in its own soil.

Naturally, the drug-peddler is averse to his own narcotics.

Wars and Revolutions only benefit those who are stable and peaceful as those stable regimes profit from the chaos inflicted upon unstable regimes.

[Longbowman]

Then if the people wanted to be in the EU then go go go!
I just dislike the violent methodology of it all.

Gandhi and Aung San Syu Kyi has had accomplished more, with less.

Took them a while though.

Most of the violence was on the part of Yanukovych, who had men shoot protesters.

[Longbowman]

better than an hypocrite my little troll.

I'm a hypocrite? Are you sure? Let me guess; you think I support something the West did - Kosovo, Iraq, maybe? - and thus am hypocritical for supporting Ukraine's sovereignty here.

Well, let's assume that I do, AND that the situations are exact parallels, which isn't the case.

Aren't you a hypocrite for doing the exact same thing? Unless you support all of America's actions as well as Russia's? Didn't think so. Double standards on your part.

Don't call me a troll again.

[Longbowman]

You are an idiot.
As for your US being photographed, take this :
https://www.google.com/search?q=McCane+Tinybook&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=B-AiU4GOOsXLtAb3zoDoAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1150&bih=693#q=McCain+ukraine+svoboda&spell=1&tbm=isch

Can really Google Images be taken over by Russian propaganda? You are such an IDIOT, STUPID DUMP MORON and IMBECILE as well..

A picture of McCain?

If you insult me like that again I'll ban you for the day. I am being nothing but civil. Also, it's spelt dumb*

Got that?

[Selurong]

Took them a while though.

Most of the violence was on the part of Yanukovych, who had men shoot protesters.

Really? When did that happen?

[Longbowman]

Really? When did that happen?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/leaked-telephone-conversation-ukraine-sniper-killings-of-opposition-protesters-ordered-by-opposition-leaders-blamed-on-yanukovych/5372013

Here's when Yanukovych acknowledges them but claims the Nazis were shooting protesters to make the Government look bad, which is totally something innocent people say. He's basically Liam Neeson in non-stop.

[Selurong]

A picture of McCain?

If you insult me like that again I'll ban you for the day. I am being nothing but civil. Also, it's spelt dumb*

Got that?

Lolz. McCain looks stoned in the picture.
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52af53516bb3f7a73c43dd69/john-mccain-went-to-ukraine-and-stood-on-stage-with-a-man-accused-of-being-an-anti-semitic-neo-nazi.jpg

Furthermore, the man on the right looks like he's had way too many cups of coffee.

[Longbowman]

Lolz. McCain looks stoned in the picture.
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52af53516bb3f7a73c43dd69/john-mccain-went-to-ukraine-and-stood-on-stage-with-a-man-accused-of-being-an-anti-semitic-neo-nazi.jpg

Furthermore, the man on the right looks like he's had way too many cups of coffee.

He looks fairly scary.

[RussiaPrussia]

...is not going to include a 'actually, I'd like things to remain as they are' option.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26546133

Crimea will effectively be part of Russia or Russian-dominated. The people aren't getting a choice.


The Crimean parliament has formally invited OSCE election monitors, but the OSCE does not plan to send any because of its stance that the vote is "illegal".

[RussiaPrussia]

second did ukrainian government ban russian news channels from its country so only ukrainian can be viewed. So much to promoting propaganda

[RussiaPrussia]

BBC is a joke and a UK propaganda tool

[Longbowman]

RP, they're right. It is illegitimate, and there's voter intimidation, state-sponsored kidnapping, and most importantly, as the completely factual post you thumbed down points out, it doesn't actually give the people a real choice.

[Longbowman]

BBC is a joke and a UK propaganda tool

In that case, so are the Russian news channels. Oh wait, even the reporters there quit on-air (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/rt-reporter-quits-on-air-in-protest-of-russian-occupation-of-crimea-012912894.html)because even they are disgusted by it.

Also, you're German, you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian, you have no idea what they're saying.

[Graham]

Both BBC and your Russia Today will give their own biased views.

[RussiaPrussia]

In that case, so are the Russian news channels. Oh wait, even the reporters there quit on-air (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/rt-reporter-quits-on-air-in-protest-of-russian-occupation-of-crimea-012912894.html)because even they are disgusted by it.

Also, you're German, you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian, you have no idea what they're saying.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118697-Liz-Wahl-HOAX-EXPOSED-RT-Anchor-Sells-out-to-American-MSM

[Longbowman]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118697-Liz-Wahl-HOAX-EXPOSED-RT-Anchor-Sells-out-to-American-MSM

Quick question, PrussiaPrussia, is there, in your mind, anything wrong with Russia?

[RussiaPrussia]

Quick question, PrussiaPrussia, is there, in your mind, anything wrong with Russia?

yes that they are too depended on the west

[Longbowman]

yes that they are too depended on the west

Mhm, mhm. Anything else? Any Russian regulation or law you would change if you were Russian and in charge? Any illegal stuff going on? Is the Russian government being sneaky and spying on people or invading places, or killing people, or doing anything wrong at all, anywhere? No matter how small?

[zhaoyun]

It is democratic, in that the majority support union with Russia.

It is illegal as per international law though as Ukraine was effectively invaded and had it's sovereignty violated.

[Longbowman]

It is democratic, in that the majority support union with Russia.

It is illegal as per international law though as Ukraine was effectively invaded and had it's sovereignty violated.

No, it isn't. Now, polls taken before 2010 suggest that whilst a very significant minority support union with Russia, it's not a majority. BUT, that's not why it's not democratic. Even if all Crimeans wanted to join Russia, offering them a referendum when there weren't an 'actually nah, I want things to stay as it is' would still be undemocratic. What have they got to fear? If they were as confident as you are as to the will of the people they'd include 'things are cool as they are' as an option. As they haven't, it's undemocratic.

[zhaoyun]

No, it isn't. Now, polls taken before 2010 suggest that whilst a very significant minority support union with Russia, it's not a majority. BUT, that's not why it's not democratic. Even if all Crimeans wanted to join Russia, offering them a referendum when there wasn't a 'actually nah, I want things to stay as it is' would still be undemocratic. What have they got to fear? If they were as confident as you are as to the will of the people they'd include 'things are cool as they are' as an option. As they haven't, it's undemocratic.

I agree that if the referendum was held with the wording that you are referring to, it is a sham.

However, I've also seen many polls that have indicated that the majority do support union with Russia.

But again, this action is obviously a power play by Russia, pure and simple.

[RussiaPrussia]

Mhm, mhm. Anything else? Any Russian regulation or law you would change if you were Russian and in charge? Any illegal stuff going on? Is the Russian government being sneaky and spying on people or invading places, or killing people, or doing anything wrong at all, anywhere? No matter how small?

i would prefer if they remove this law and replace it with one that only bans parades promoting a sexuality or someones sex life, they should allow russians to own guns except for regions where is destability (chechenya). Russia should also reapply the death penalty after the japanese model.
Foreigners should be deported for making crimes and other things like assaulting and molesting women, elderly, children and animals although russia should encourage more chinese immigration in their country who have higher iq rater than central asians. They should also encourage to mix with them and allow polygamy, there are many poor countries and regions like china, north korea and vietnam who have high iq and hot chicks, russia needs desperately more people. Regions where people make less children should be allowed to have a second and third wifes.
Google and facebook should be banned in russia. There plenty of other things which i think the country is doing wrong.

[Longbowman]

I agree that if the referendum was held with the wording that you are referring to, it is a sham.

However, I've also seen many polls that have indicated that the majority do support union with Russia.

But again, this action is obviously a power play by Russia, pure and simple.

Grand. As demonstrated, that will be the wording; so you agree it's a sham?

[Longbowman]

i would prefer if they remove this law and replace it with one that only bans parades promoting a sexuality or someones sex life, they should allow russians to own guns except for regions where is destability (chechenya). Russia should also reapply the death penalty after the japanese model.
Foreigners should be deported for making crimes and other things like assaulting and molesting women, elderly, children and animals although russia should encourage more chinese immigration in their country who have higher iq rater than central asians. They should also encourage to mix with them and allow polygamy, there are many poor countries and regions like china, north korea and vietnam who have high iq and hot chicks, russia needs desperately more people. Regions where people make less children should be allowed to have a second and third wifes.
Google and facebook should be banned in russia. There plenty of other things which i think the country is doing wrong.

Odd, so you want to make Russia more like America?

Nearly everything you've described would be a turn to the US policy.

[Nor56]

http://i056.radikal.ru/1403/8f/eb2835ea8b32.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

Friends, comrades. Have to wait more than 24 hours prior to the referendum. Forward.
Let's wait

[Longbowman]

http://i056.radikal.ru/1403/8f/eb2835ea8b32.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

Friends, comrades. Have to wait more than 24 hours prior to the referendum. Forward.
Let's wait

Gosh, if you were in Crimea, what would you vote for?

1) I want to be part of Russia!
2) I want to be strongly influenced by Russia!

I can't WAIT to find out the result, a real fork in the road for Crimea! So exciting!

[Nor56]

Gosh, if you were in Crimea, what would you vote for?

1) I want to be part of Russia!
2) I want to be strongly influenced by Russia!

I can't WAIT to find out the result, a real fork in the road for Crimea! So exciting!

Tell you a secret. This is no secret. I have friends and relatives living in the Crimea. They moved there in '80. Actually Crimea again return to the side of the Russien empire.
I mean. That all the law is.

oh my bad English language.

[Nor56]

In Crimea, residents are friendly. Hot there in the summer.

[TheBlondeSalad]

Why exactly is Crimea so 'important' to the West? :rolleyes:

[Longbowman]

In Crimea, residents are friendly. Hot there in the summer.

Glad to hear it.

[Longbowman]

Why exactly is Crimea so 'important' to the West? :rolleyes:

It's important to the ZOG, Blessed. It's the key to the Black Sea. We must have it in our collection.

[Nor56]

Why exactly is Crimea so 'important' to the West? :rolleyes:
Sorry. Poorly understood your message. You ask why Crimea is so important for Russia?

[Graham]

Why exactly is Crimea so 'important' to the West? :rolleyes:

It isn't all about Crimea. But a political new Cold War game. You could also ask why did we care about the Soviet war in Afghanistan? Why did Russia & the US care about Syria?

[TheBlondeSalad]

Sorry. Poorly understood your message. You ask why Crimea is so important for Russia?

I was being sarcastic.

Don't you find it suspicious that westerners support the protests in Kiev for a change of government but denounce the protests in Crimea in support of joining Russia?

I think some in the West are just upset that Crimeans will democratically elect to join Russia which would be a major blow to the west's propaganda war against Russia.

[Nor56]

I was being sarcastic.

Don't you find it suspicious that westerners support the protests in Kiev for a change of government but denounce the protests in Crimea in support of joining Russia?

I think some in the West are just upset that Crimeans will democratically elect to join Russia which would be a major blow to the west's propaganda war against Russia.

You know what happened to the Russian Empire in 1917? So it happened with Ukraine. Crimea gave Gorbachev, he was negligent when to do so. Crimea should return to Russia. Russian Crimea settled in the 17-18 centuries and still live 60% of Russians. Need to maintain balance in the world and the Crimea can not be given to the Office of the United States.

I am kindly to all brothers, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Poles, Latvians, etc. Just politics corrupts people and makes beat each other.
They want to rule the world.

[Nor56]

I have my own political opinion on all this. I believe that it is not interesting to anyone. Let Crimea is Russian, they have that right.

[Nor56]

Look at the background. There will be something terrible.
Ukrainian deputy gives interviews. (http://youtu.be/FWAWdKSEZHw?t=1m16s)

[Longbowman]

I have my own political opinion on all this. I believe that it is not interesting to anyone. Let Crimea is Russian, they have that right.

I'm not against it, it should just be done with a proper vote, not this...

[Graham]

Longbow has a point. The Question should be a straight Yes or no 'Status quo'.

We had a whole bunch of topics on this, in the news about the referendum questioning & it was agreed to make sure not to mislead people. Because it can influence.

[Nor56]

Longbow has a point. The Question should be a straight Yes or no 'Status quo'.

We had a whole bunch of topics on this, in the news about the referendum questioning & it was agreed to make sure not to mislead people. Because it can influence.

Crimeans set to join Russia. Everything will be fine if the elections will not break what some opposition.

[LightHouse89]

...is not going to include a 'actually, I'd like things to remain as they are' option.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26546133

Crimea will effectively be part of Russia or Russian-dominated. The people aren't getting a choice.

democracy is degenerate and fake and is of no surprise again how worthless 'voting' is.

[LightHouse89]

I agree that if the referendum was held with the wording that you are referring to, it is a sham.

However, I've also seen many polls that have indicated that the majority do support union with Russia.

But again, this action is obviously a power play by Russia, pure and simple.

democracy it self is a sham because it is never actually practiced which makes it bullshit to begin with.

[LightHouse89]

A President who put interests of Russia ahead of interests of his people

a system that proves how worthless it actually is. Confederacy is the only true version of democracy the rest is bullshit and promotes the rich.

[LightHouse89]

A picture of McCain?

If you insult me like that again I'll ban you for the day. I am being nothing but civil. Also, it's spelt dumb*

Got that?

McCaine is a turd floating in the toilet to me after it hasn't properly flushed. A 'conservative in name' only and condones illegals crossing the border with their drugs and other antics....he is a fraud and anything he stands behind is invalid.

[Graham]

democracy is degenerate and fake and is of no surprise again how worthless 'voting' is.

That is not American of you. :hrm00000:

[RandoBloom]

http://emaidan.com/images/2014/2014_03/referendum.jpg