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The Black Prince
12-26-2009, 07:29 PM
Prehistorical East-West admixture of maternal lineages in a 2,500-year-old population in Xinjiang

Abstract:
As an area of contact between Asia and Europe, Central Asia witnessed a scenario of complex cultural developments, extensive migratory movements, and biological admixture between West and East Eurasians.
However, the detanglement of this complexity of diversity requires an understanding of prehistoric contacts of the people from the West and the East on the Eurasia continent.
We demonstrated the presence of genetic admixture of West and East in a population of 35 inhabitants excavated in Gavaerk in southern Xinjiang and dated 2,800-2,100 years before present by analyzing their mitochondrial DNA variations. This result indicates that the initial contact of the East and the West Eurasians occurred further east than Central Asia as early as 2,500 years ago.

Source: Dienekes blog (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/12/mtdna-evidence-for-caucasoid-mongoloid.html)

I quickly read the article and one of the results the authors mention is about the level of Europoid mtDNA:

The EE lineages included hgs A, B, F, and N9a of the major N trunk, as well as C, D, G, and Z of the macrohaplogroup M, which are prevalent in East Asian
populations. The WE lineages were composed of hgs HV, preHV, N1, J, T, U, K, I, W, and X, which are Europespecific.
The proportions of both WE and EE lineages (Table 2) were calculated by summing-up frequencies of hgs, respectively. The prehistoric population GAV was composed of 27% WE and 57% EE lineages, showing evident admixture of the West and the East Eurasians.

Quite interresting :), not meaning that Europoid or partly Europoid looking people are common nowadays in those areas, rather seldom (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11875). But it once must have been commoner regarding an earlier research.

This earlier mtDNA research was from a cemetary of the Sampula population, dating between 217 BCE to 283 CE. This showed also a mixture of East-Asian and Ossetian/Iranian maternal material. But before this mtDNA research the Sampula cemetary was the subject of a physical anthropologic research:

Physical anthropology of Shao et al. revealed that the ancient human bones from Sampula exhibited primarily Mongoloid characteristics with certain European features, but Han et al. believed that Sampula populations are mainly of European character and actually are close to that of the Eastern Mediterranean type.

The mtDNA research of Sampula concluded with the remark:

In conclusion, the analysis of mtDNA haplogroup distribution showed that the ancient Sampula was a complex population of European and Asian, corresponding to the physical anthopology result of Shao et al.

source: Mitochondrial DNA analysis of ancient Sampula population in Xinjiang (2007). Progress in Natural Science, Vol. 17, No. 8, p.p. 927 - 933.

Agrippa
12-26-2009, 07:49 PM
The classic example for a living Indoeuropean (Europid) - Turko-Mongol (Mongoloid) mixture for the greater region is of course the case of the Uyghur people.

From what I saw Europoid traits are not that uncommon among them, even on the contrary, yet most are rather intermediate one could say, not particularly negative or "unprogressive" or disharmonious in comparison to other mixed populations, like shown in the thread you mentioned too:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11875

We shouldnt forget that the Europid part in them is significantly larger than just 25 percent though.

The influences seem to be from the Nordo-Mediterranid-Iranid spectrum of former Europid Central Asia with a signficiant Northern Cromagnoid and probably also Pamirid/Dinaroid component, like expected.

Some rather Europoid Uighurs of quite a good general standard:

The Khagan
12-26-2009, 11:22 PM
We mainly think of Europids as a strictly Western thing, but it seems that in ancient times it was by far more common to see Europids east of the Urals as opposed to now. Hell, Indo-Europeans dominated the steppes as far east as Mongolia and may have comprised a large portion of the Xiongnu. There is evidence of Scythian artwork as far flung as South East Asia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#China

Agrippa
12-27-2009, 10:16 AM
Actually Central Asia might have been in earlier times fully Europid, than many parts of Europe, since Central Asia might have been a huge source, together with the Near East, for the original and subsequent waves of people settling the continent. If looking at some of the major European haplogroups, lineages, a quite likely route for them was over India-Iran into Central Asia, where they already became at least Proto-Europoid and then marching into Europe.

So Central Asia was even in pre-Indoeuropean times very important for the peopling and the racial make up, distribution of the Europid/Caucasoid race.

Aino
12-27-2009, 05:45 PM
I think this is the same woman who was posted earlier on another forum as a Uighyr. However, on closer inspection, it turned out she was either an American or a European writing a travel blog and wearing Uighyr clothing. I can't find the link to the original source, so I might be mistaken.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3460&d=1261860956

Agrippa
12-27-2009, 06:23 PM
I think this is the same woman who was posted earlier on another forum as a Uighyr. However, on closer inspection, it turned out she was either an American or a European writing a travel blog and wearing Uighyr clothing. I can't find the link to the original source, so I might be mistaken.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3460&d=1261860956

Thats possible of course, yet she herself has Mongoloid or at least Mongoliform traits, like a somewhat flatter face in general and nose, even visible frontally, the eyes have a weak Epicanthus fold (look especially at the inner left eye), cheekbones are stronger.

Such variants can be found in Europe, yet she could very well be an Uyghur woman (pred. Europid, slight Mongoloid admixture in the phenotype).

Aino
12-28-2009, 06:05 AM
Thats possible of course, yet she herself has Mongoloid or at least Mongoliform traits, like a somewhat flatter face in general and nose, even visible frontally, the eyes have a weak Epicanthus fold (look especially at the inner left eye), cheekbones are stronger.

Such variants can be found in Europe, yet she could very well be an Uyghur woman (pred. Europid, slight Mongoloid admixture in the phenotype).

Yes, I noticed the Mongoliform traits. That is actually why I said I wasn't sure about it. However, her pigmentation is clearly European. Uyghurs are genetically half European, half East Asian (see below); I doubt you can find a Uyghur with such light blue eyes and light pinkish skin.

Haplotype-Sharing Analysis Showing Uyghurs Are Unlikely Genetic Donors (http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/10/2197?etoc)



The Uyghur (UIG) are a group of people primarily residing in Xinjiang of China, which is geographically located in Central Asia, from where modern humans were presumably spread in all directions reaching Europe, east, and northeast Asia about 40 kya. A recent study suggested that the UIG are ancestry donors of the East Asian (EAS) gene pool. However, an alternative hypothesis, that is, the UIG is an admixture population with both EAS and EUR ancestries is also supported by our previous studies. To test the two competing hypotheses, here we conducted a haplotype-sharing analysis (HSA) based on empirical and simulated data of high-density single nucleotide polymorphisms. Our results showed that more than 95% of UIG haplotypes could be found in either EAS or EUR populations, which contradicts the expectation of the null models assuming that UIG are donors. Simulation studies further indicated that the proportion of UIG private haplotypes observed in empirical data is only expected in alternative models assuming that UIG is an admixture population. Interestingly, the estimated ancestry contribution of 44%:56% (EAS:EUR) based on HSA is consistent with our previous estimation with STRUCTURE analysis. Although the history of UIGs could be complex, our method is explicit and conservative in rejecting the null hypothesis. We concluded that the gene pool of modern UIGs is more likely a sole recipient with contribution from both EAS and EUR.

Agrippa
12-28-2009, 09:34 AM
However, her pigmentation is clearly European. Uyghurs are genetically half European, half East Asian (see below); I doubt you can find a Uyghur with such light blue eyes and light pinkish skin.

You can find Mulattoes of later generations in Brazil and the USA as light as her, thats just one of the possible recombination scenarios over time. The most unlikely one, but in a larger population it will always appear. So thats really no argument against her being Uyghur and even if she's not, others are as fair.

That SUCH light variants are not that numerous among them can be probably attributed as much to the fact, that the original Indoeuropeans there weren't all that depigmented neither. So the overall percentage of such light genetic variants should be significantly below the Europid input.

Aino
12-28-2009, 08:54 PM
You can find Mulattoes of later generations in Brazil and the USA as light as her, thats just one of the possible recombination scenarios over time. The most unlikely one, but in a larger population it will always appear. So thats really no argument against her being Uyghur and even if she's not, others are as fair.

It is actually not just her light pigmentation that I think would be difficult to find among Uyghurs, it is the pure light blue eye colour. Such an eye colour would require the carrier to be homozygous for a vast number of recessive SNPs on various genes. It just seems so unlikely to happen in such a mixed population. Just a few heterozygous SNPs will give your eyes a green tint, even if they were very light.

But maybe you are right and such colouring is indeed found in all Euro-mixed populations. It might actually make an interesting thread--mulattoes and other mixes with pure light blue eyes.


That SUCH light variants are not that numerous among them can be probably attributed as much to the fact, that the original Indoeuropeans there weren't all that depigmented neither. So the overall percentage of such light genetic variants should be significantly below the Europid input.

Perhaps so. But I still cannot help but think she is not a Uyghur. I don't think my memory could fail me that badly. Also, there are other factors that speak for her not being a Uyghur in addition to her pigmentation--Western-type make-up, nicely plugged eyebrows, the stud earrings, and her overall looks. She doesn't look at all like other pictures I have seen of Uyghur women.

Brännvin
12-28-2009, 09:46 PM
I agree with you here, Aino. The average Uyghur looks quite different, a little bit more dark, perhaps, is she some Russian journalist? And if she is one, so it is a special rare case..

Here a site with photos of Uyghurs (Uighurs).
Link (http://www.incendiaryimage.com/projects/china/)