Female MPs from Catalonia versus female MPs from Lombardy - compare and contrast.

[Tooting Carmen]

A few months ago, I made a thread comparing the female MPs from their respective capital cities; now here's one from those countries' respective second cities and their surrounding regions.

CATALONIA:
http://www.socialistes.cat/files/thumbs/gallery/meritxell_batet2-5.jpg http://genteconconciencia.es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/CarmenChacon.jpg http://www.congreso.es/wc/htdocs/web/img/diputados/197_10.jpg http://www.albertofernandez.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Esteller300x327.jpg http://www.socialistes.cat/files/avatars/people/esperanca.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GLf6IvuyyEc/TRfSZ_KhKiI/AAAAAAAAAB0/IGiDp6CIRQ4/s1600/L%25C3%25B3pez+Chamosa.jpg http://clasica.estrelladigital.es/espana/Dolors-Montserrat-vicepresidenta-tercera-Congreso_ESTIMA20111214_0084_10.jpg http://www.elsingulardigital.cat/cat/img2/2010/03/laia_ortiz_15marc_475.jpg http://www.ciucongreso.es/video.php?file=archivos/galeriavideos/00944.f4v http://www.ciucongreso.es/archivos/imagen.php?urlfoto=galeriafotos/00124.jpg http://www.congreso.es/wc/htdocs/web/img/diputados/386_10.jpg http://www.elgarrotxi.cat/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/caretoj2.png http://www.unio.cat/sites/default/files/images/13-09-2012/MontserratSurroca.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XqhTQ897X8A/TU1GgEnkcbI/AAAAAAAAA_U/5T0CWW5i9go/s1600/conxi%2Bsola%2Besmorzar%2Bnadal.jpg http://quehacenlosdiputados.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/teresa-cunillera2.jpg http://www.redaccionmedica.com/contenido/images/tarruella_comision_sanidad_cabecera.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

LOMBARDY:
http://www.scattidigusto.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ilaria-Borletti-Buitoni-640x424.jpg http://blog.iodonna.it/marina-terragni/files/2012/12/20121103233722-foto-paola.jpg http://www.gruppopdl-berlusconipresidente.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Elena-Centemero-258.jpg http://www.giornalettismo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Cimbro-Eleonora_pd.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Daniela_Gasparini.jpg/220px-Daniela_Gasparini.jpg http://www.elenacarnevali.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/fabrizia-giuliani-youdem.jpg http://www.consumerpact.eu/uploads/subscribers/239x215/pia-eldalocatelli.jpg http://simonamalpezzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/cropped-546946_509175545773146_90930176_n7.jpg http://blog.iodonna.it/chiara-gamberale/files/2013/12/Michela-Marzano-3.gif http://www.affaritaliani.it/static/upload/ales/0000/alessia-mosca.jpg http://fondazioneelioquercioli.net/start/images/immagini/LuigiLongo/pollastrini.jpg http://www.deputatipd.it/images/PD_Members/Quartapelle_Lia.jpg http://image.nanopress.it/politica24/fotogallery/625X0/5675/tatiana-basilio.jpg http://www.associazionesoldano.it/associazionesoldano/uploads/images/SMS2011/Protagonisti/marina_berlinghieri_small.jpg http://www.deputatipd.it/images/PD_Members/Bonafe_Simona.jpg http://insiemeperbregnano.org/images/foto/chiara_braga.jpg http://www.albofisioterapisti.com/elena%20carnevali.jpg http://www.riparteilfuturo.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Candidata-Miriam-Cominelli-1-e1358354438475.jpg http://www.correnterosa.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/tittidisalvo.jpg http://www.varesereport.it/vr/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/P1260446.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

LOMBARDY (continued):
http://static.fanpage.it/socialmediafanpage/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Mariastella-Gelmini-occhiali-blu.jpg http://www.diacoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/d301459.jpg http://www.vita.it/static/upload/san/santerini_foto.jpg http://www.lecconotizie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Veronica-Tentori.jpg http://www.senato.it/leg/16/Immagini/Senatori/00022951.jpg http://tg24.sky.it/static/contentimages/original/sezioni/tg24/cronaca/2011/03/08/daniela_santanche.jpg http://gazzettadimantova.gelocal.it/polopoly_fs/1.78116.1306849566!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_250/image.jpg http://www.qelsi.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/meloni.jpg http://www.riparteilfuturo.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/foto-campagna-e1360694255612.jpg http://www.rosacalipari.it/Images/TopBar/RosaCalipari1.jpg

[Ataman]

I think they belong to the same Facade.

[Sikeliot]

they all could fit in southern France.

[Tooting Carmen]

they all could fit in southern France.

Do you think one group looks more French than the other, or both of them equally?

[Sikeliot]

Do you think one group looks more French than the other, or both of them equally?

I think if you put all of them, and southern French, into a room, no one would be able to tell them apart.

[Hadouken]

very similar people

[Tooting Carmen]

I think if you put all of them, and southern French, into a room, no one would be able to tell them apart.

Yes, I think that, once you head south of either Madrid or Rome, the percentage of people who can pass in France (let alone elsewhere in Northern Europe) does drop somewhat.

[Sikeliot]

Yes, I think that, once you head south of either Madrid or Rome, the percentage of people who can pass in France (let alone elsewhere in Northern Europe) does drop somewhat.

And as you move north in Spain and south in Italy, the percent that can pass in one another's countries also does drop.

[Tooting Carmen]

And as you move north in Spain and south in Italy, the percent that can pass in one another's countries also does drop.

But given that these are from quite far north in their respective countries, they are largely interchangeable, aren't they?

[Newsboy]

I think if you put all of them, and southern French, into a room, no one would be able to tell them apart.

Nowadays, I think many if not most Lombardians have southern ancestry (fully or partially). Therefore they could often pass further south. Could any of the Catalan MPs pass in Greece/Balkans?

[Sikeliot]

But given that these are from quite far north in their respective countries, they are largely interchangeable, aren't they?

Yes. But Catalans don't look like people in Asturias, Cantabria and Galicia which is what I mean by "northern Spain".

[Apri2014]

But given that these are from quite far north in their respective countries, they are largely interchangeable, aren't they?

I should like to clarify that when people in Spain talk about "the north", they don't mean Catalonia

[Tooting Carmen]

Nowadays, I think many if not most Lombardians have southern ancestry (fully or partially). Therefore they could often pass further south. Could any of them (including Catalan MPs) pass as Greek?

But as a group you can definitely tell that the Lombards are Northerners, not Southerners. In the 'similar threads' list below, click on my "female MPs from Madrid versus female MPs from Rome" thread. Later on in said thread, I posted the female MPs from Campania and Sicily - the difference between them and these is quite noticeable. As for whether either the Catalans or the Lombards can pass as Greeks, I think individually some can, but as groups both look FAR too Western European to be mistaken for Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

But as a group you can definitely tell that the Lombards are Northerners, not Southerners. In the 'similar threads' list below, click on my "female MPs from Madrid versus female MPs from Rome" thread. Later on in said thread, I posted the female MPs from Campania and Sicily - the difference between them and these is quite noticeable. As for whether either the Catalans or the Lombards can pass as Greeks, I think individually some can, but as groups both look FAR too Western European to be mistaken for Greeks.

I don't think as a whole any of these people look neither southern Italian, nor Greek.
Too much northern influence.

[Tooting Carmen]

I should like to clarify that when people in Spain talk about "the north", they don't mean Catalonia

Well OK, but the purpose of this thread is not because either Catalonia or Lombardy are the most Northerly regions of Spain and Italy - they aren't - but because they are where Barcelona and Milan are, which are Spain and Italy's respective second cities.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't think as a whole any of these people look neither southern Italian, nor Greek.
Too much northern influence.

Indeed.

[Apri2014]

Well OK, but the purpose of this thread is not because either Catalonia or Lombardy are the most Northerly regions of Spain and Italy - they aren't - but because they are where Barcelona and Milan are, which are Spain and Italy's respective second cities.

I will be careful and I won't talk about Catalunya and Spain in the same sentence ;)

[Newsboy]

But as a group you can definitely tell that the Lombards are Northerners, not Southerners. In the 'similar threads' list below, click on my "female MPs from Madrid versus female MPs from Rome" thread. Later on in said thread, I posted the female MPs from Campania and Sicily - the difference between them and these is quite noticeable. As for whether either the Catalans or the Lombards can pass as Greeks, I think individually some can, but as groups both look FAR too Western European to be mistaken for Greeks.

Might be true for ethnic Catalans. Nowadays Catalonia is home to many non-Catalan Spaniards (many are Andalusians or Castilians). The non native Catalans overlap more with Greeks IMO (despite their ancestral homeland being further away).

[Tooting Carmen]

Might be true for ethnic Catalans. Nowadays Catalonia is home to many non-Catalans (especially Andalusians and Castilians). The non-Catalans in Catalonia overlap more with Greeks IMO (despite their ancestral hometowns being further away).

Most of the MPs I posted have one or both surnames that are native Catalan. But I know what you mean.

[Apri2014]

Yes. But Catalans don't look like people in Asturias, Cantabria and Galicia which is what I mean by "northern Spain".

When people here say the north of Spain they mean : Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, North of Castile, Basque country and Navarra.

[Tooting Carmen]

When people here say the north of Spain they mean : Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, North of Castile, Basque country and Navarra.

Then what is Catalonia? Northeast?

[Comte Arnau]

Might be true for ethnic Catalans. Nowadays Catalonia is home to many non-Catalan Spaniards (many are Andalusians or Castilians). The non native Catalans overlap more with Greeks IMO (despite their ancestral homeland being further away).

While that is true, I've had a quick look at the pics and most of their surnames are Catalan. The woman in the 2nd picture is the one odd out, her father's line at least is clearly Spanish.

[Apri2014]

Then what is Catalonia? Northeast?

Yes, el Mediterráneo o el norte del mediterráneo

[Apri2014]

Might be true for ethnic Catalans. Nowadays Catalonia is home to many non-Catalan Spaniards (many are Andalusians or Castilians). The non native Catalans overlap more with Greeks IMO (despite their ancestral homeland being further away).

what does overlap mean ?

[Comte Arnau]

Only the coast of Catalonia (the yellow area) is really Mediterranian, though. Most is what is called 'mountain Med', the West is 'inland Med' as in the inland Iberia, and the North is Alpine. We even have the Aran Valley, that is Atlantic.

http://www.xtec.cat/~ftrillo/imatges%20clima/climes%20cat.gif

[Tooting Carmen]

what does overlap mean ?

Similarity.

[Newsboy]

what does overlap mean ?

Similarity in looks. What I posted was my opinion.


Only the coast of Catalonia (the yellow area) is really Mediterranian, though. Most is what is called 'mountain Med', the West is 'inland Med' as in the inland Iberia, and the North is Alpine. We even have the Aran Valley, that is Atlantic.

So it seems Catalonia is mostly Med with the yellow area being purely Med. I think the Aran Valley is Atlantic because it has rivers flowing to the Atlantic Ocean.

[Sikeliot]

I think Catalans have a bit of a Dinaric element, interestingly.

[Apri2014]

When people here say the north of Spain they mean : Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, North of Castile, Basque country and Navarra.

To sum it up, the north of Spain means more humid/rainy/etc or/and colder ( north of Castile : high average altitude ). The climate of Catalonia is diverse but quite different

[Tooting Carmen]

I do also hope this thread proves that, contrary to what some complexed and paranoid individuals claim, I do NOT only post dark and/or exotic Southern Europeans - in both groups there are very few who could be described as such.

[Comte Arnau]

This is a pluviometrical map. A bit old but it shows a yearly average and it's useful to see that some areas are rainy too.

http://www.atlesnacional.cat/icc/atles-nacional/resource/static/mini/3_4.jpg

I'd say Lombardy is much rainier, though.

[Newsboy]

^ Not surprising if Lombardy is much rainier. Spain as a whole doesn't strike me as a rainy country. And that info shouldn't be outdated. It's from 1996, not 100 years ago.

[Tooting Carmen]

Spain as a whole doesn't strike me as a rainy country.

Believe me, it can be. I lived in Zaragoza for a year - I know what I am talking about.

[Comte Arnau]

I do also hope this thread proves that, contrary to what some complexed and paranoid individuals claim, I do NOT only post dark and/or exotic Southern Europeans - in both groups there are very few who could be described as such.

You won't see me complaining about that. I only complain when someone posts Catalans and they are not or are Catalonians from other backgrounds. I've seen you've taken the effort to check most surnames and I appreciate it very much.


^ Not surprising if Lombardy is much rainier. Spain as a whole doesn't strike me as a rainy country. And that info isn't so old. It's from 1996, not 100 years ago.

That's because only the Med shores are famous. But look for the North-West, the so-called Green Spain. Galicia and Portugal are the Iberian England.

[Apri2014]

Similarity in looks. What I posted was my opinion.



Ok, no problem but I don't think so

[Tooting Carmen]

You won't see me complaining about that. I only complain when someone posts Catalans and they are not or are Catalonians from other backgrounds. I've seen you've taken the effort to check most surnames and I appreciate it very much.

In any case, would you say that they are a representative mix of Catalans, or Spaniards for that matter?

[Apri2014]

Believe me, it can be. I lived in Zaragoza for a year - I know what I am talking about.

But zaragoza is very dry, maybe an atypical year

[Comte Arnau]

In any case, would you say that they are a representative mix of Catalans, or Spaniards for that matter?

That depends on whether we consider Catalans as those with two Catalan surnames, which are usually either Alpine or Atlanto-Med, or as the whole of the Catalonian population, in which case most Atlanto-Gracile Med combos would come up.

[Apri2014]

Santiago de Compostela ( Galicia ):
Average annual precipitation: 1895 mm
http://www.climatedata.eu/climate.php?gt=1&loc=spxx0208&lang=en

[Tooting Carmen]

With all due respect to everyone: could we please stick to topic? I did not intend this thread to be about the climate of different regions of Iberia.

[Newsboy]

That depends on whether we consider Catalans as those with two Catalan surnames, which are usually either Alpine or Atlanto-Med, or as the whole of the Catalonian population, in which case most Atlanto-Gracile Med combos would come up.

Alpines are pretty pan-European. They're even common in Greece. In Spain, are Alpines concentrated in a particular place?

[Tooting Carmen]

Alpines are pretty pan-European. They're even common in Greece. In Spain, are Alpines concentrated in a particular place?

Generally speaking, Alpines in Spain are rarer south of Madrid but can be found to some extent north of it - albeit still in far smaller numbers than in many other European countries.

[Cristiano viejo]

But given that these are from quite far north in their respective countries, they are largely interchangeable, aren't they?

Majority of these "Catalans" are not purely ethic Catalans.
The more famous of them is Carme Chacón... her parents are from Andalusia

http://journalismccinf.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/carme_chacon_38056.jpg?w=300&h=300

[Comte Arnau]

I'd say Catalonia is home to the "purest" of Alpines in Iberia, although even here they are a minority.

But it's not true that there are few Alpines in Iberia. They're simply combined with Med. Alpo-Meds are very common.

[Comte Arnau]

Majority of these "Catalans" are not purely ethic Catalans.
The more famous of them is Carme Chacón... her parents are from Andalusia

Wrong. If you read the whole thread, you'll see that most are ethnic Catalans, as I told him. Only her has one parent from Andalusia, as I already remarked.

[Tooting Carmen]

Majority of these "Catalans" are not purely ethic Catalans.
The more famous of them is Carme Chacón... her parents are from Andalusia

http://journalismccinf.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/carme_chacon_38056.jpg?w=300&h=300

I looked up their surnames, and they usually have at least one if not both surnames that are Catalan. Anyway, as I have explained several times already, I made this thread not to show how distinctive Catalans look, but because Catalonia is home to Barcelona, Spain's second city; thus I thought it'd be interesting to compare them to their counterparts in Lombardy, given that it is home to Milan, Italy's second city.

[Sikeliot]

I'd say Catalonia is home to the "purest" of Alpines in Iberia, although even here they are a minority.

But it's not true that there are few Alpines in Iberia. They're simply combined with Med. Alpo-Meds are very common.

I assumed it was more of a Cromagnid influence that comes out pseudo-Alpine.

The Alpine type may be, however, the one type that links most Europeans together.

[Apri2014]

Ok, no problem but I don't think so

I think that these maps are very popular here, I've found this one :

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--f-th8r9G1U/Td-NQunXAvI/AAAAAAAAGrE/PaCfe5ejefw/s640/Y+Distribution+Europe.JPG

[Cristiano viejo]

Wrong. If you read the whole thread, you'll see that most are ethnic Catalans, as I told him. Only her has one parent from Andalusia, as I already remarked.

Pure ethnic Catalans?? you are dreaming.

[Tooting Carmen]

Pure ethnic Catalans?? you are dreaming.

Whether they are or they aren't is, at best, only a secondary issue for this thread. Like I said, the main purpose of this thread is to compare what people look like from Spain's second city and its surrounding region to people from Italy's second city and its surrounding region.

[Apri2014]

Majority of these "Catalans" are not purely ethic Catalans.
The more famous of them is Carme Chacón... her parents are from Andalusia

http://journalismccinf.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/carme_chacon_38056.jpg?w=300&h=300

Hello, Cristiano viejo ... but my favourite one is Vanesa Lorenzo

BTW, this woman ( Carme Chacón ) want to be the next president of Spain. May God have mercy on our souls!

[Comte Arnau]

Pure ethnic Catalans?? you are dreaming.

That 'pure' thing is your words, not mine.

I consider ethnic Catalans those Catalans who have the two surnames, or at least one, Catalan.

[Cristiano viejo]

I looked up their surnames, and they usually have at least one if not both surnames that are Catalan.
Where can I see these surnames, please?


Anyway, as I have explained several times already, I made this thread not to show how distinctive Catalans look, but because Catalonia is home to Barcelona, Spain's second city; thus I thought it'd be interesting to compare them to their counterparts in Lombardy, given that it is home to Milan, Italy's second city.

I know, but for me it´s funny to see some users saying "hey, they look distinctly Catalans", when most of Catalans are a mix between true Catalans and Castilians, Galicians etc and overall, Andalusians.

Lo siento, no pude reprimirme.

[Cristiano viejo]

That 'pure' thing is your words, not mine.

I consider ethnic Catalans those Catalans who have the two surnames, or at least one, Catalan.

In my first post in this thread I said clearly "purely".
One Catalan surname and for you someone is ethnic Catalan already? puff

[Tooting Carmen]

Where can I see these surnames, please?

http://www.congreso.es/portal/page/portal/Congreso/Congreso/Diputados/BusqForm?_piref73_1333155_73_1333154_1333154.next_ page=/wc/busquedaDiputadosForm

[Apri2014]

http://www.congreso.es/portal/page/portal/Congreso/Congreso/Diputados/BusqForm?_piref73_1333155_73_1333154_1333154.next_ page=/wc/busquedaDiputadosForm

Barcelona :

http://www.congreso.es/portal/page/portal/Congreso/Congreso/Diputados/DipCircuns/ComAutCat?_piref73_1333304_73_1333301_1333301.next _page=/wc/busquedaDiputadosCircunscripcion&circunscripcionSelec=8

[Comte Arnau]

In my first post in this thread I said clearly "purely".
One Catalan surname and for you someone is ethnic Catalan already? puff

If the person is a Catalonian and half of her family line is ethnic Catalan, what should she be, Ancient Tibetan?

[Tooting Carmen]

Barcelona :

http://www.congreso.es/portal/page/portal/Congreso/Congreso/Diputados/DipCircuns/ComAutCat?_piref73_1333304_73_1333301_1333301.next _page=/wc/busquedaDiputadosCircunscripcion&circunscripcionSelec=8

Thank you, but I specifically chose the female MPs from all of Catalonia in the Search.

[Apri2014]

If the person is a Catalonian and half of her family line is ethnic Catalan, what should she be, Ancient Tibetan?

Hola Comte, un saludo tb. para tí

[Apri2014]

Thank you, but I specifically chose the female MPs from all of Catalonia in the Search.

ah, ok

[Tooting Carmen]

Anyway, may we please stick to topic? In other words, please let us discuss the phenotypes of the female MPs from Barcelona, Milan and their surrounding regions, how similar or different the two groups are from each other, and whether they look similar or different to how people would imagine them to look.

[Comte Arnau]

Ok, taking another look, this one has both surnames that are non-Catalan.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GLf6IvuyyEc/TRfSZ_KhKiI/AAAAAAAAAB0/IGiDp6CIRQ4/s1600/L%25C3%25B3pez+Chamosa.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

If the person is a Catalonian and half of her family line is ethnic Catalan, what should she be, Ancient Tibetan?
If its other half is from other Spanish area, Spaniard a secas.
If its other half is from out of Spain, immigrant.


@lavitaebella:


Ayllón Manso, José Luis (GP)
Batet Lamaña, Meritxell (GS)
Bosch i Pascual, Alfred (GMx)
Campuzano i Canadés, Carles (GC-CiU)
Canongia Gerona, Joan (GS)
Ciuró i Buldó, Lourdes (GC-CiU)
Corcuera Plaza, Juan Carlos (GS)
Coscubiela Conesa, Joan (GIP)
Duran i Lleida, Josep Antoni (GC-CiU)
Esteller Ruedas, Mª Ángeles (GP)
Esteve Ortega, Esperança (GS)
Fernández Díaz, Jorge (GP)
Gallego Burgos, Antonio (GP)
Guillaumes i Ràfols, Feliu-Joan (GC-CiU)
López i Chamosa, María Isabel (GS)
Macias i Arau, Pere (GC-CiU)
Montserrat Montserrat, Dolors (GP)
Moragas Sánchez, Jorge (GP)
Nuet Pujals, Joan Josep (GIP)
Ortiz Castellví, Laia (GIP)
Picó i Azanza, Antoni (GC-CiU)
Rangel Tarrés, Joan (GS)
Riera i Reñé, Inmaculada (GC-CiU)
Rodríguez Sánchez, Germán (GS)
Ruiz Llamas, Román (GS)



At least the half of these surnames are not Catalans :thumb001:

[Comte Arnau]

Lol. You're really lame.

[Tooting Carmen]

At least the half of these surnames are not Catalans :thumb001:

Were that true, it would not be so unrepresentative in fact, given the cosmopolitan make-up of contemporary Catalonia. In Wales, for example, only around 34% of people have surnames of Welsh origin (the Welsh Assembly Government actually did a survey about this); thus, were I to show a group of Welsh people, it would be silly and preposterous to only show those ones with Welsh surnames, and the same applies to these Catalans too.

EDIT: His Search was different to mine - I specifically chose the female MPs from all of Catalonia, whereas he chose MPs of both genders from just Barcelona.

[Comte Arnau]

Were that true, it would not be so unrepresentative in fact, given the cosmopolitan make-up of contemporary Catalonia. In Wales, for example, only around 34% of people have surnames of Welsh origin (the Welsh Assembly Government actually did a survey about this); thus, were I to show a group of Welsh people, it would be silly and preposterous to only show those ones with Welsh surnames, and the same applies to these Catalans too.

Well, that depends on the purpose. That is why I asked you what picture you wanted, the picture of the total Catalonian population or the picture of those who have Catalan surnames.

It doesn't have to do with identity. Some Catalonians with two non-Catalan surnames feel only Catalan, while some ethnic Catalans, like the tennis player Nadal, feel Spaniard.

[GrebluBro]

LOMBARDY



Probably just 60% of them are ethnic North Italians...up to 30% of North Italians got part or full Southern Italian origin..another 10% from the rest of Italy or other countries

[Tooting Carmen]

Well, that depends on the purpose. That is why I asked you what picture you wanted, the picture of the total Catalonian population or the picture of those which have Catalan surnames.

It doesn't have to do with identity. Some Catalonians with two non-Catalan surnames feel only Catalan, while some ethnic Catalans, like the tennis player Nadal, feel Spaniard.

I think I want to focus on the total population of Catalonia, and contrast it with the total population of Lombardy, regardless of whether the MPs from either of those regions have surnames native to them or not.

EDIT: Btw, here is the Search I made for the female MPs from Catalonia. http://www.congreso.es/portal/page/portal/Congreso/Congreso/Diputados/BusqForm?_piref73_1333155_73_1333154_1333154.next_ page=/wc/busquedaDiputadosForm

[Cristiano viejo]

Were that true, it would not be so unrepresentative in fact, given the cosmopolitan make-up of contemporary Catalonia. In Wales, for example, only around 34% of people have surnames of Welsh origin (the Welsh Assembly Government actually did a survey about this); thus, were I to show a group of Welsh people, it would be silly and preposterous to only show those ones with Welsh surnames, and the same applies to these Catalans too.

EDIT: His Search was different to mine - I specifically chose the female MPs from all of Catalonia, whereas he chose MPs of both genders from just Barcelona.

You can apply what you want, but if you (or whoever) say that these people are "ethnic Catalans" then here I will be for deny it. Ethnic Catalan mean, or it should mean, 100% Catalan :thumb001:

According you if a Catalan man and a black woman have a son born in Barcelona, is this child "an ethnic Catalan"? :lightbul:

[Comte Arnau]

You can apply what you want, but if you (or whoever) say that these people are "ethnic Catalans" then here I will be for deny it.

As if you were an authority on the topic, lol.

[Cristiano viejo]

As if you were an authority on the topic, lol.

Same autorithy than you.

[Tooting Carmen]

You can apply what you want, but if you (or whoever) say that these people are "ethnic Catalans" then here I will be for deny it. Ethnic Catalan mean, or it should mean, 100% Catalan :thumb001:

According you if a Catalan man and a black woman have a son born in Barcelona, is this child "an ethnic Catalan"? :lightbul:

For the umpteenth time: I am NOT insinuating that all the MPs from Catalonia are ethnic Catalans. Rather, it is to discuss the phenotypes of people (regardless of surname) from Barcelona, Milan and the surrounding regions. Now, could you please stop being a nuisance and actually contribute more usefully to this thread? For starters, do they look like a representative mix to you, or are their phenotypes disproportionately light, disproportionately dark etc.?

[Cristiano viejo]

For starters, do they look like a representative mix to you, or are their phenotypes disproportionately light, disproportionately dark etc.?

They are Moors. Lombards are Germanics. Everybody know this.

[Comte Arnau]

Same autorithy than you.

I don't proclaim myself as such.

But at least I can recognize a Catalan surname.

[Tooting Carmen]

They are Moors. Lombards are Germanics. Everybody know this.

Be serious please. Pigmentation-wise the two groups are actually quite similar imo. What do you think? Do the two groups largely look alike, or not?

[Cristiano viejo]

I don't proclaim myself as such.
And me yes??????????????


But at least I can recognize a Catalan surname.
Me too. The difference is that for you is not relevant. For you a black living in Catalonia is ethnic Catalan.

[Comte Arnau]

And me yes??????????????

Yes. Post #71 was written by you.



Me too.

Lol. You recognize a few, the most common, that's all.


The difference is that for you is not relevant. For you a black living in Catalonia is ethnic Catalan.

Whatever gets you a hard-on.

[Tooting Carmen]

Once again: could we please discuss the phenotypes of the two groups? That was the purpose of this thread.

[Comte Arnau]

Once again: could we please discuss the phenotypes of the two groups? That was the purpose of this thread.

As long as there are Spaniards around, any threads you post about Catalans are going to be hijacked. Don't be too harsh with them, though, they just can't help it, it's in their genes.

[Tooting Carmen]

As long as there are Spaniards around, any threads you post about Catalans are going to be hijacked. Don't be too harsh with them, though, they just can't help it, it's in their genes.

Well OK. Anyway, when the general population of Catalonia is considered, do the MPs in the OP look like a representative group then?

[Apri2014]

I think Catalans have a bit of a Dinaric element, interestingly.

Yes, I think you're right, not very surprising

[Apri2014]

As long as there are Spaniards around, any threads you post about Catalans are going to be hijacked. Don't be too harsh with them, though, they just can't help it, it's in their genes.

LOL, I haven't read this. Retiro el saludo, eso me pasa por tener demasiada buena intención. No me extraña que por culpa de algunos, luego no los quiera nadie

[Comte Arnau]

Well OK. Anyway, when the general population of Catalonia is considered, do the MPs in the OP look like a representative group then?

I wouldn't call it representative but a group of common faces.


LOL, I haven't read this. Retiro el saludo, eso me pasa por tener demasiada buena intención. No me extraña que por culpa de algunos, luego no los quiera nadie

Lol, do as you please. Being loved by Spaniards is not one of my concerns in life.

[Apri2014]

I wouldn't call it representative but a group of common faces.



Lol, do as you please. Being loved by Spaniards is not one of my concerns in life.


Keep calm and wait for 4014 :thumb001:

[Comte Arnau]

Typical Spanish behaviour, as I guessed. Now let's stop the off-topic.

[Apri2014]

Typical Spanish behaviour, as I guessed. Now let's stop the off-topic.

empezaste tu, generalizando, cuando yo no te habia dicho nada a tí, victimista, typical nationalist behaviour. Saludos desde Gava, cambio y cierro

[Comte Arnau]

I see you're a newby. Remember that Spanish is reserved for the Spanish section of the forum. Now that you vomited what you wanted against me, please stay on topic. Thank you.

[Tooting Carmen]

Could we please stop these highly irrelevant nationalist and ideological exchanges? Thank you. Now, let us return to topic please.

[Cristiano viejo]

Yes. Post #71 was written by you.
No. Post 71 does not say anything about authority, only in your brain.


Lol. You recognize a few, the most common, that's all.
How can you know it???


As long as there are Spaniards around, any threads you post about Catalans are going to be hijacked. Don't be too harsh with them, though, they just can't help it, it's in their genes.
Buff typical victimist behavior. Very Catalanist, true.
But I did not say nothing for that you now are crying and saying that I fucked the thread, really. I just said, and I will repeat it if it´s necessary all times that you want, that these people are not ethnic Catalans, and that I found very funny that users say "oh, Catalans are Alpines, oh Catalans are lighter then rest of Spaniards", WHEN CURRENT CATALANS ARE A MIX OF OTHER SPANISH AREAS, AND MANY OF THEM ARE ANDALUSIANS :laugh: even you should recognize this nonsense.

But yeah, if according you it say this is to fuck the thread, then yes, I fucked the thread :coffee:

[Comte Arnau]

I told you, Vita. They just can't help it. :coffee:

[Smaug]

Light Iberians look British, Light Lombards look German.

[Tooting Carmen]

Light Iberians look British, Light Lombards look German.

Examples?

[Smaug]

Examples?

The ones you posted are fine.

[Comte Arnau]

Light Iberians look British, Light Lombards look German.

I don't think so. Light Northern Iberians may look British, but light Catalans look more like from an undefined North-Central mainland area. And I'd also include many light Aragonese in this.

[Sikeliot]

I don't think so. Light Northern Iberians may look British, but light Catalans look more like from an undefined North-Central mainland area. And I'd also include many light Aragonese in this.

Light Catalans look more like Alsatians, Swiss and south Germans IMO.

[rick1977]

They are quite nice:thumb001:.... Certainly better looking that the feminist hags that 90% of US female politicians are....

[guyinsf]

they all could fit in southern France.

I don't think so. Not all.
Everyone's trying to liken southern france to Italy and Spain but there is a distinction.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't think so. Not all.
Everyone's trying to liken southern france to Italy and Spain but there is a distinction.

From the two groups, which individuals would look out of place in Southern France in your opinion?

[Comte Arnau]

I don't think so. Not all.
Everyone's trying to liken southern france to Italy and Spain but there is a distinction.

Yeahhh. The area separating Iberia from Italy is totally unconnected and dazzling in glamooouuuur, oh la la. :laugh:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/ehesmg.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

A couple of the Catalan MPs, whose photos have been lost:
http://www.alertadigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/cunillera.jpghttp://www.elsingular.cat/cat/img2/2011/12/dolors_monserrat_congres_475x352.jpg

And the same with the Lombards:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LXzoU45T-tA/UVbm0KeftfI/AAAAAAAABQM/zU7PQSwLUgQ/s1600/lia_quartapelle.jpghttp://www.europaquotidiano.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/simona-bonafe-2.jpg

[Lábaru]

I think if you put all of them, and southern French, into a room, no one would be able to tell them apart.

A if I tell you what a few of the Catalans individuals are from Andalusia or Extremadura?

[Cristiano viejo]

A if I tell you what a few of the Catalans individuals are from Andalusia or Extremadura?

I would not believe you. Only a few? :dance:

[Damião de Góis]

A if I tell you what a few of the Catalans individuals are from Andalusia or Extremadura?

Well yes. His Lisbon MPs are from the Algarve as well.

[Ctwentysevenj]

Do you think one group looks more French than the other, or both of them equally?

Why not central France too. The latitude of Northern Italy includes most of Central France.

[JohnSmith]

I do not see many differences.

[Ulla]

Not all of them are really from Lombardy. Some are Southerns born in Lombardy and some weren't even born in Lombardy.

Some examples:


http://www.vita.it/static/upload/san/santerini_foto.jpg

She was born in Rome.


http://tg24.sky.it/static/contentimages/original/sezioni/tg24/cronaca/2011/03/08/daniela_santanche.jpg

She was born in Cuneo, she is Piedmontese.


http://www.qelsi.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/meloni.jpg

She was born in Rome, and she is half Sardinian, half Sicilian.


http://www.riparteilfuturo.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/foto-campagna-e1360694255612.jpg

She is Sicilian born in Mazzarino, Sicily.


http://www.rosacalipari.it/Images/TopBar/RosaCalipari1.jpg

She was born in Cosenza, she is Calabrian.


http://blog.iodonna.it/chiara-gamberale/files/2013/12/Michela-Marzano-3.gif

She was born in Rome and his surname is from Campania or Apulia.

[Ulla]

Yeahhh. The area separating Iberia from Italy is totally unconnected and dazzling in glamooouuuur, oh la la. :laugh:

:)

[Also]

Yeahhh. The area separating Iberia from Italy is totally unconnected and dazzling in glamooouuuur, oh la la. :laugh:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/ehesmg.jpg

Looks like a scratch of WOOHP's brain.

[Maximum Speed]

italian examples are mostly not northern italians

[Tooting Carmen]

Memo to Alex, Ulla, Labaru etc: the point of this and other similar threads is to compare random samples of the particular nationalities in question (in this case Spaniards and Italians), whether or not they are actually born in the locality they represent in Parliament.

[Ulla]

Memo to Alex, Ulla, Labaru etc: the point of this and other similar threads is to compare random samples of the particular nationalities in question (in this case Spaniards and Italians), whether or not they are actually born in the locality they represent in Parliament.

Then next time you need to write in the title: "comparing random people".

If you write "Catalonia versus Lombardy" I expect real people from Catalonia and Lombardy.

Local representantios in Italian Parliament means very little. In most Italian electoral districts candidates have no real connection with the district.

[JohnSmith]

Could someone post pics of real Lombards.

[JohnSmith]

The Lombards do not look much different to me than Italians living in the USA which are mostly from the south. I have Swiss relatives that are much darker than many Southern Italians that live in the USA. This whole idea that Northern Italians look so much different than Southern Italians is over blown.

[Ulla]

The Lombards do not look much different to me than Italians living in the USA which are mostly from the south. I have Swiss relatives that are much darker than many Southern Italians that live in the USA. This whole idea that Northern Italians look so much different than Southern Italians is over blown.

Do you mean these southern Italians that live in the USA?


http://cdn.thewire.com/media/old_wire/img/upload/2012/12/20/jersey-shore-ending/original.jpg

[JohnSmith]

Do you mean these southern Italians that live in the USA?


http://cdn.thewire.com/media/old_wire/img/upload/2012/12/20/jersey-shore-ending/original.jpg

bad comparison I think maybe one is 100% Italian and they go tanning everyday.

How about a Southern Italian that actually contributed to society like the inventor of the Ford Mustang and Chrysler Minivan.
Lee Iacocca
http://www.leeiacocca.com/img/content-design/timeline-photo-lee.jpg

[JohnSmith]

Some of the Jersey Shore cast do not even have one drop of Italian blood.

http://www.today.com/id/35448025/ns/today-today_entertainment/t/jersey-shore-cast-all-italians-fuggedaboutit/#.U-AvjfldWSo

[Ulla]

bad comparison I think maybe one is 100% Italian and they go tanning everyday.

How about a Southern Italian that actually contributed to society like the inventor of the Ford Mustang and Chrysler Minivan.
Lee Iacocca
http://www.leeiacocca.com/img/content-design/timeline-photo-lee.jpg

He looks Central-South. Very interesting face and probably you could even find him in North Italy not as atypical.

Some Northern Italian faces. Honestly, do you really think they can pass as average Southern Italians?

Of course there also Mediterranean faces in North Italy, but there are lots of Northern Italian faces that can't pass in South Italy. They aren't better, but simply different.

Giulio Tremonti (Lombardy)
http://www.aciclico.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tremonti1.jpg

Guido Tabellini (Piedmont)
http://knowledgecircle.cifar.ca/wp-content/gallery/roundtable-dinner-october-25-2012/069_1485.jpg

Marco Fortis (Piedmont)
http://cdn.tempi.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Fortis.jpg

Ferruccio De Bortoli (Veneto)
http://venturecamp.mindthebridge.org/files/2012/09/de-bortoli-ok.jpg

Luca Cordero di Montezemolo (Piedmont)
http://www.palermomania.it/public/news2012/news_47583_Luca.jpg

Mario Monti (Lombardy)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Mario_Monti_-_Terre_alte_2013.JPG

[Ulla]

Some of the Jersey Shore cast do not even have one drop of Italian blood.

http://www.today.com/id/35448025/ns/today-today_entertainment/t/jersey-shore-cast-all-italians-fuggedaboutit/#.U-AvjfldWSo

I know, I was kidding you.

[JohnSmith]

I think so and you can't really use old people as an example since all old people start to look alike. I mean these people do not look much different than the Italian President from Naples. Lee Iaccoca could easily fit in Northern Italy along with much of Central and Western Europe.

http://www.lanostratv.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/giorgio-napolitano.jpg

[JohnSmith]

He looks Central-South. Very interesting face and probably you could even find him in North Italy not as atypical.
He looks Central-South you probably came up with that because you looked up and saw that is exactly where he is from. My Italian teacher in high school was from Milan and she looked no different than many southern Italians in the USA.

[Ulla]

I think so and you can't really use old people as an example since all old people start to look alike.

You haven't answered me. Can they pass or not as average Southern Italians?

[Ulla]

He looks Central-South you probably came up with that because you looked up and saw that is exactly where he is from.

Other pics of Lee Iacocca. I confirm, looks more Central-South.

http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/1e/dd/49/8e/d5/f8/20101202235746_Chrysler024.jpg

http://motordigital.com/files/2011/12/iacocca_lee_iacocca_74_mustang.jpg

[JohnSmith]

You haven't answered me. Can they pass or not as average Southern Italians?

Yes, they do not look much different from my Italian family which is mostly from Abruzzo. So they are southern Italian

[Ulla]

Yes, they do not look much different from my Italian family which is mostly from Abruzzo. So they are southern Italian

I don't think that Tremonti, Tabellini and others are just the same of your family, but
Abruzzo culturally is Southern Italy (because was under the Kingdom of Naples) but geographically is Central Italy and you can find in Abruzzo people much less Mediterranean then in the rest of South Italy. Your family overall don't look average Southern Italians. They look basicallly central Italians.

[JohnSmith]

Abruzzo culturally is Southern Italy (because was under the Kingdom of Naples) but geographically is Central Italy and you can find in Abruzzo people much less Mediterranean then in the rest of South Italy. Your family don't look average Southern Italians. They are basicallly central Italians.

Whatever they do not look much different from any Italian in my opinion, and I know there are Northern Italians that darker than my family and you know that too even if you do not want to admit it. Many of them can easily pass in Central Europe and Western Europe. So this whole thing about Southern/Central Italians look so different than Northern is a bunch of crap in my opinion.

[Ulla]

Whatever they do not look much different from any Italian in my opinion, and I know there are Northern Italians that darker than my family and you know that too even if you do not want to admit it. Many of them can easily pass in Central Europe and Western Europe. So this whole thing about Southern/Central Italians look so different than Northern is a bunch of crap in my opinion.

I told you at least two times that there also many meds in Northern Italy. Anyway, I respect your opinion but I disagree.

[JohnSmith]

I told you at least two times that there also many meds in Northern Italy. Anyway, I respect your opinion but I disagree.


You never told me that maybe you did, Anyway I think my grandfather looks a bit like Mario Monti and Eisenhower.

http://cf067b.medialib.glogster.com/media/b9/b94ba772642ac9d3e96377218133cf486bcccd3be8ea7cac51 090d0156ec9827/president-eisenhower.jpg

[Comte Arnau]

That is true. Little children and aged people from all over Europe look on average pretty much the same.

[Tooting Carmen]

That is true. Little children and aged people from all over Europe look on average pretty much the same.

Whereas the adults in between most certainly don't.

[JohnSmith]

That is true. Little children and aged people from all over Europe look on average pretty much the same.

True best pics are from 25 to 35 years old

[Tooting Carmen]

True best pics are from 25 to 35 years old

You'll like these threads of mine then:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?112912-White-British-MPs-aged-20-40
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?113450-Spanish-male-MPs-ages-18-39
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?132549-MEPs-from-across-Europe-below-the-age-of-40

[Ulla]

That is true. Little children and aged people from all over Europe look on average pretty much the same.

Coon, revered by many here, also used pics of aged people.

[JohnSmith]

Coon, revered by many here, also used pics of aged people.

A lot of Coon is outdated. I believe he states Atlanto-Meds are mostly a Middle East type and minority in Southern Europe most do not agree with this.
Coon's definition:

"Atlanto-Mediterranean: The tall, straight-nosed Mediterranean, not mesocephalic, as Deniker erroneously stated, but strongly dolichocephalic. Today this race forms the principal element in the population of North Africa, and is strong in Iraq, Palestine, parts of Arabia, and the eastern Balkans; in solution with varying degrees of negroid it is also the principal race in the whole of East Africa. In Europe it is a minority element in the Iberian Peninsula, Italy, and the British Isles"

[JohnSmith]

Coon, revered by many here, also used pics of aged people.


Also East Asians in India when they get older look even somewhat European because their hair lightens.

[JohnSmith]

Other pics of Lee Iacocca. I confirm, looks more Central-South.


He doesn't look much different to me than Romano Prod if you want to compare them.

Iacocca
http://www.lehigh.edu/engineering/about/alumni/images/bios/Iacocca.png

Prodi
http://www.famouspeopleinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Romano-Prodi-11.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

Here's another Catalan MP with a lost photo:
http://www.uniogirona.cat/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/montserrat-surroca-2.jpg

[Odin]

They look similar.

[Regnera]

Similar phenotypes.

[Antinoo]

http://www.qelsi.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/meloni.jpg

Meloni is not from Lombardy. She was born in Rome to Southern Italian parents.

[trebil]

Meloni is not from Lombardy. She was born in Rome to Southern Italian parents.

Meloni is half Sardinian half from Sicily

Also these three have southern Italian surnames

http://blog.iodonna.it/chiara-gamberale/files/2013/12/Michela-Marzano-3.gif

http://www.correnterosa.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/tittidisalvo.jpg

http://image.nanopress.it/politica24/fotogallery/625X0/5675/tatiana-basilio.jpg


Daniela Santanchè is from Piedmont, she was born in Cuneo

https://tg24.sky.it/static/contentimages/original/sezioni/tg24/cronaca/2011/03/08/daniela_santanche.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

I meant these MPs represent these regions.

[trebil]

I meant these MPs represent these regions.

Politically or what? That's not how the Italian electoral system works. Many politicians run for office in other regions, Giorgia Meloni has no connection with Lombardy, yet she was elected there

[Antinoo]

Also these three have southern Italian surnames

http://blog.iodonna.it/chiara-gamberale/files/2013/12/Michela-Marzano-3.gif

http://www.correnterosa.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/tittidisalvo.jpg

http://image.nanopress.it/politica24/fotogallery/625X0/5675/tatiana-basilio.jpg


Third one is Tatiana Basilio and her surname is from Lombardy tbh:
https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/BASILIO

[Newsboy]

Third one is Tatiana Basilio and her surname is from Lombardy tbh:
https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/BASILIO

It appears to have a high frequency in a small town of Basilicata so maybe she is of southern descent. At least partially.

https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/BASILIO/BASILICATA/POTENZA