Longskulled CMs of Central Europe

[armenianbodyhair]

I'm not sure if other people can confirm this but I've seen many Central Europeans that have significant cm influence but also look like they have a CI < 75. Is there a certain type of CM that explains this? I thought most CMs were meso to brachy.

[Methusalem]

Post an example

[DebtCollector]

CM is dolichocephalic by definition though

[Smaug]

CM is dolichocephalic by definition though

I thought CMs and Alpinoids were brachycephalic while Neolithics like Meds, Nordids and Atlantids were Dolico/Mesocephalic?

[armenianbodyhair]

CM is dolichocephalic by definition though

How can that be possible.

[DebtCollector]

I thought CMs and Alpinoids were brachycephalic while Neolithics like Meds, Nordids and Atlantids were Dolico/Mesocephalic?
you thought wrong


How can that be possible.
I don't know why you would have thought otherwise. The cro-magnon boy was dolichocephalic and cromagnoid refers to his morphology.

[Harkonnen]

CM is dolichocephalic by definition though

No they are not dolicho by definition. There existed the so called broadfaced longskulled variant (a very peculiar variant in itself), but like all population, they had variation. Here are some stats on the cephalic variation of Onge. A very pure population

http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.krepublishers.com%2F02-Journals%2FT-Anth%2FAnth-08-0-000-000-2006-Web%2FAnth-08-4-219-286-2006-Abst-PDF%2FAnth-08-4-245-249-2006-366-Pandey-A-K%2FAnth-08-4-245-249-2006-366-Pandey-A-K-Text.pdf&ei=UaAoU_aiH-OGywOo4IHgDA&usg=AFQjCNEredy_pb-bXjmxoYiMw1SJIvLWTQ&bvm=bv.62922401,d.bGQ

[Peikko]

This, again, depends on author. Because physical anthropology isn't science, it's not even pseudo-science. It's just pure non-science.

[DebtCollector]

No they are not dolicho by definition. There existed the so called broadfaced longskulled variant (a very peculiar variant in itself), but like all population, they had variation. Here are some stats on the cephalic variation of Onge. A very pure population

http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.krepublishers.com%2F02-Journals%2FT-Anth%2FAnth-08-0-000-000-2006-Web%2FAnth-08-4-219-286-2006-Abst-PDF%2FAnth-08-4-245-249-2006-366-Pandey-A-K%2FAnth-08-4-245-249-2006-366-Pandey-A-K-Text.pdf&ei=UaAoU_aiH-OGywOo4IHgDA&usg=AFQjCNEredy_pb-bXjmxoYiMw1SJIvLWTQ&bvm=bv.62922401,d.bGQ
Yeah well I'm talking about cromagnoid, which is just a name given to a certain combination of traits. Naturally not all the UP Europeans had the same morphology.

[Not a Cop]

I thought CMs and Alpinoids were brachycephalic while Neolithics like Meds, Nordids and Atlantids were Dolico/Mesocephalic?

Unreducted CMs are meso-dolichocephalic, while reducted ones are bachycepchapic



How can that be possible.

Here is a an examples of Faelids aka unreducted CMs

http://m1.i.pbase.com/o6/25/862925/1/116237941.l4R7QOI6.hansklok5.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/1zgz69f.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i432/1110/de/d14638654bd5.jpg
http://cs1502.vkontakte.ru/u19447350/37341644/x_61b67c7e.jpg
http://s004.radikal.ru/i206/1403/30/c623ab2aec54.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://www.morethings.com/fan/robert_redford/robert-redford-the-candidate-1972-383.jpg

[Cleitus]

Unreducted CMs are meso-dolichocephalic, while reducted ones are bachycepchapic




Here is a an examples of Faelids aka unreducted CMs

http://m1.i.pbase.com/o6/25/862925/1/116237941.l4R7QOI6.hansklok5.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/1zgz69f.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i432/1110/de/d14638654bd5.jpg
http://cs1502.vkontakte.ru/u19447350/37341644/x_61b67c7e.jpg
http://s004.radikal.ru/i206/1403/30/c623ab2aec54.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://www.morethings.com/fan/robert_redford/robert-redford-the-candidate-1972-383.jpg
Fälids are Brachycephalic, the examples you show are Fälid/Nordid.

[Smeagol]

Unreduced Classic Cromagnids are dolichocephalic.

[Smeagol]

Fälids are Brachycephalic

No they aren't.

[armenianbodyhair]

Unreducted CMs are meso-dolichocephalic, while reducted ones are bachycepchapic




Here is a an examples of Faelids aka unreducted CMs

http://m1.i.pbase.com/o6/25/862925/1/116237941.l4R7QOI6.hansklok5.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/1zgz69f.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i432/1110/de/d14638654bd5.jpg
http://cs1502.vkontakte.ru/u19447350/37341644/x_61b67c7e.jpg
http://s004.radikal.ru/i206/1403/30/c623ab2aec54.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://www.morethings.com/fan/robert_redford/robert-redford-the-candidate-1972-383.jpg
Hmm some of them are dolichocephalic but not all, but they look northern.

[Cleitus]

No they aren't.
I have seen enough of them to know that.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

This, again, depends on author. Because physical anthropology isn't science, it's not even pseudo-science. It's just pure non-science.

That's not true, it's one of the few things in anthropology that actually is scientific.

Cromag 1 was doli. So were the cromag in central europe.

I was surprised to learn it at first too, as it makes their origins even more mysterious.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Unreducted CMs are meso-dolichocephalic, while reducted ones are bachycepchapic




Here is a an examples of Faelids aka unreducted CMs

http://m1.i.pbase.com/o6/25/862925/1/116237941.l4R7QOI6.hansklok5.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/1zgz69f.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i432/1110/de/d14638654bd5.jpg
http://cs1502.vkontakte.ru/u19447350/37341644/x_61b67c7e.jpg
http://s004.radikal.ru/i206/1403/30/c623ab2aec54.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://www.morethings.com/fan/robert_redford/robert-redford-the-candidate-1972-383.jpg

Ok, this makes sense...so then alipnid would count as reduced CM. That was throwing me off because they break the rule.

[Cleitus]

Borrebys are also Brachycephalic are they reduced ?

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Finland came out closest to Cro Magnon man.

So it seems like Cro Magnon was really more of a dolichocephalic Baltid type.

[Amud]

Is this the type you are talking about? This plate is Czekanowski Proto-Slavic type.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/cass22/czek/JClappresl.jpg


Borrebys are also Brachycephalic are they reduced ?

Some of the are, but not all. The Borreby skulls are supposed to be mixed with Dinarics, which is why it is high-skulled and brachycephalic. I'm not sure if the Borreby type today is actually descended from the ancient Borreby type, though.

[Peikko]

I think Faelids would be more something like these Germans. They play for Duisburg, but not all of them are necessary from Westphalia.
http://www.pointstreak.com/photos/p7010851.jpghttp://www.pointstreak.com/photos/p7111140.jpghttp://www.pointstreak.com/photos/p7010852.jpghttp://www.pointstreak.com/photos/p7010855.jpghttp://www.pointstreak.com/photos/p7010836.jpghttp://www.pointstreak.com/photos/p7107788.jpg

[Peikko]

Finland came out closest to Cro Magnon man.

So it seems like Cro Magnon was really more of a dolichocephalic Baltid type.
Baltids aren't dolicocephalic, but usually brachy.

[Not a Cop]

Hmm some of them are dolichocephalic but not all, but they look northern.

Well, faelids are meso-dolicho afterall, although CMs may appear shorter skulled, than augricanoid due to the fact that they have different skull shapes, Augricanoids appear more dolichocephalic because they usually have more projecting occupits, here you can see it on Faelid\Nordid example
http://s001.radikal.ru/i196/1110/87/8da8e7c81230.jpg

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Baltids aren't dolicocephalic, but usually brachy.

Yes but Cro Magnon man was dolichocephalic while being closest to Finland.

So dolichocephalic Baltid would best describe Cro Magnon man.

[Peikko]

Yes but Cro Magnon man was dolichocephalic while being closest to Finland.

So dolichocephalic Baltid would best describe Cro Magnon man.
I don't follow your logic, "borreby" man.

[Not a Cop]

Is this the type you are talking about? This plate is Czekanowski Proto-Slavic type.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/cass22/czek/JClappresl.jpg



preslowianski means pre-slavic, not proto-slavic
[/QUOTE]



Some of the are, but not all. The Borreby skulls are supposed to be mixed with Dinarics, which is why it is high-skulled and brachycephalic. I'm not sure if the Borreby type today is actually descended from the ancient Borreby type, though.


Dinaric in borreby? Wtf are you talking about?

[Smeagol]

Finland came out closest to Cro Magnon man.

So it seems like Cro Magnon was really more of a dolichocephalic Baltid type.

The Baltids are reduced Cromagnids. Dolichocephalic Baltids don't exist.

[Not a Cop]

Borrebys are also Brachycephalic are they reduced ?

Borrebies are partially reducted, and yes, they are usually brachycephalic.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

The Baltids are reduced Cromagnids. Dolichocephalic Baltids don't exist.

Cro Magnon man clearly had the closest affinity to Baltids just look at how they depicted themselves.

http://donsmaps.com/clickphotos/headbrugar2.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/clickphotos/headbrugar3.jpg

[Smeagol]

Cro Magnon man clearly had the closest affinity to Baltids just look at how they depicted themselves.

http://donsmaps.com/clickphotos/headbrugar2.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/clickphotos/headbrugar3.jpg

That's just primitive artwork. We need to look at the skulls.

[d3cimat3d]

The Baltids are reduced Cromagnids. Dolichocephalic Baltids don't exist.

By "reduced" do you mean only the face or also body too? Baltids aren't as tall as the classic Cro-Magnids, so reduce=gracialization?

[Smeagol]

By "reduced" do you mean only the face or also body too? Baltids aren't as tall as the classic Cro-Magnids, so reduce=gracialization?

Well, reduced, brachycephalized and borealized, so yeah, but Baltids are still supposed to be fairly tall.

[d3cimat3d]

Well, reduced, brachycephalized and borealized, so yeah, but Baltids are still supposed to be fairly tall.

hmmm


The race's characteristics such as a short stature, short limbs, wide, sturdy bodies, non-prominent chins, massive under-jaws, big, rough bones, eyes standing out, broad faces.

Their counterpart, the West Baltic race (also Neanderthal & Cro-Magnon hybrid), which their population survived but not their languages and cultures, tend to show features that are much more to that of Cro-Magnon men, just like most other Europeans. These include tall statures, narrow bodies, slim builds, muscular, light, rosy skin, prominent chins, long limbs, round heads, and bones that are smooth and are not large.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Baltic_race

[Peikko]

hmmm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Baltic_race
I don't know if Finns are Baltid or not, but we are one of the tallest nations in the world. Too bad a sandnigger like you can't really say the same.

Nice pheno.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=2407&dateline=1392707497&type=profile

[d3cimat3d]

I don't know if Finns are Baltid or not, but we are one of the tallest nations in the world. Too bad a sandnigger like you can't really say the same.

I bet I'm taller than you. And your a dumbass if you really think I'm Turkish.



Nice pheno.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=2407&dateline=1392707497&type=profile

Still less mong than the average finuit.

[Peikko]

I bet I'm taller than you. And your a dumbass if you really think I'm Turkish.
You're something similar to Turks, it doesn't matter to me. You're some shorty whimp.


Still less mong than the average finuit.
Still less white.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

That's just primitive artwork. We need to look at the skulls.

The modern depiction of Cro Magnon man is similar & Baltid looking!

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/images_eman/cro_magnon_3.jpg

This fits with Cro Magnon man being closest to Finns!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_u7NyW2SaZlE/TSRaQkMRzqI/AAAAAAAAAGs/PgH5vY1Ctto/s500/Brace2005-Fig2.png

That Cro Magnon man had the closest affinity to Baltids!

[d3cimat3d]

You're something similar to Turks, it doesn't matter to me. You're some shorty whimp.


Haha fail! I seen your pictures and you're scrawny compared to me. I bet it must hurt to have a swarthy guy like me be more physically fit than your scrawny nordic ass.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118251-Classify-d3cimat3d-and-which-country-i-can-pass



Still less white.

I'm still more Cro than you, respect the Cro or I will hunt you to extinction like your finderthal ancestors.

[Peikko]

Haha fail! I seen your pictures and you're scrawny compared to me. I bet it must hurt to have a swarthy guy like me be more physically fit than your scrawny nordic ass.

I'd fuck you up, wannabe-European.


I'm still more Cro than you, respect the Cro or I will hunt you to extinction like your finderthal ancestors.
Cro? Cro-homo?

[d3cimat3d]

I'd fuck you up, wannabe-European.


Why don't you get eye contact lenses first, I don't want to be held liable for damaging your eyes with broken glass. Skinny nerd.

[Peikko]

Why don't you get eye contact lenses first, I don't want to be held liable for damaging your eyes with broken glass. Skinny nerd.
Don't mind about that. You'd be worried about keeping your balls together. No more swarthy cro-homo babies.

[d3cimat3d]

Don't mind about that. You'd be worried about keeping your balls together. No more swarthy cro-homo babies.


Silly over aggressive Fin, you should be neutered to stop acting so damn aggressive, you damn dog. You come here and say un-provoked stuff to me because I said Baltids weren't cute earlier? You have issues, let it go. I don't want to see your wanna-be winter war shit all over again. Fucking silly Finnuit ski internet warriors, go play make believe somewhere else.

[Amud]

preslowianski means pre-slavic, not proto-slavic


OK, my bad. That's not really an important distinction, though. The type represented there is not ancestral to Slavs, but existed before the Slavs, and is probably descended from pre-Indo European peoples (ie. Upper Paleolithic or "Cro Magnid".)



Dinaric in borreby? Wtf are you talking about?

As I said, "I'm not sure if the Borreby type today is actually descended from the ancient Borreby type, though."

But yes, that is what the Borreby crania (ancient Borreby type) is supposed to be.


Possibly, too, the Borreby skull (found near Borreby, in Denmark) is to be explained as a skull with a Dinaric strain (not from a native of Denmark?) and brought into connexion with this advance of Dinaric bell-beaker tribes. This at least is what Reche suggests (Reallexikon der Vorgeschichte, under ‘Borrebyschädel’).
http://www.centrostudilaruna.it/the-european-races-in-prehistory.html

Here are Coon's words on the Borreby type:



In the same districts of southern Sweden where Brünn survivors are found, and across the Skaggerrak in Jutland, are found brachycephalic Upper Palaeolithic survivors, equally unreduced in head and body size, equally if not more lateral in bodily build.

Look at Ultra being butthurt again, thumbing me down because you guys haven't read this material and are only going by popular anthroboard "knowledge". Give me a break.

[Peikko]

OK, my bad. That's not really an important distinction, though. The type represented there is not ancestral to Slavs, but existed before the Slavs, and is probably descended from pre-Indo European peoples (ie. Upper Paleolithic or "Cro Magnid".)

Guido, please. You think that British people are dinarics? :P Damn you are retarded.

[Amud]

Guido, please. You think that British people are dinarics? :P Damn you are retarded.

When did I ever say I thought British people were Dinarics? Apparently there is a small Dinaric element among them from the Bell Beaker culture, but it's not very important.

[Not a Cop]

Look at Ultra being butthurt again, thumbing me down because you guys haven't read this material and are only going by popular anthroboard "knowledge". Give me a break.

Well, i'm pretty shure that i've read more recent text than you, since russian anthropology is still alive.

As I said, "I'm not sure if the Borreby type today is actually descended from the ancient Borreby type, though."



But yes, that is what the Borreby crania (ancient Borreby type) is supposed to be.


Well i have'nt read this study so i can't say anything about it, but on average borrebies are not dinaricised, and so the Atlnato-baltic race, in which it's most common.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

OK, my bad. That's not really an important distinction, though. The type represented there is not ancestral to Slavs, but existed before the Slavs, and is probably descended from pre-Indo European peoples (ie. Upper Paleolithic or "Cro Magnid".)



As I said, "I'm not sure if the Borreby type today is actually descended from the ancient Borreby type, though."

But yes, that is what the Borreby crania (ancient Borreby type) is supposed to be.


http://www.centrostudilaruna.it/the-european-races-in-prehistory.html

Here are Coon's words on the Borreby type:


Look at Ultra being butthurt again, thumbing me down because you guys haven't read this material and are only going by popular anthroboard "knowledge". Give me a break.

Kind of silly...of course borreby is not exactly same as cro magnon. Crom magnon has blended into europe and borreby is one of the types influenced by it.

Cromag 1 was doli, so were all the really early pure cromag types.

On one hand you say that it's dumb to call people cromag today like it doesn't exist, and point to guys whose skulls look absolutely 0% cromag like some uralic guy's skull as though it's cromag. Guys like that have more mong influence that's why you can't come to terms with the fact that cromag essentially is longheaded - because so are neanderthal.

[gold_fenix]

It is more logic that Cromagnon man were dolicocephalic, wild specimen tend to be dolicocephalic

[Amud]

Kind of silly...of course borreby is not exactly same as cro magnon. Crom magnon has blended into europe and borreby is one of the types influenced by it.

The point of my post was to show that the Borreby skulls are not necessarily related to people who are considered Borreby today on anthro forums. And, as the quote I showed pointed out, the Borreby skulls are believed to be a blend of Bell Beaker Dinarics with a robust, indigenous element (which could be a Cro-Magnon or similar type). Because most people don't think of Borrebies as having originated that way, this shows that most people's conception of a Borreby is not the same as the skulls found at the Borreby site.




Cromag 1 was doli, so were all the really early pure cromag types.

On one hand you say that it's dumb to call people cromag today like it doesn't exist, and point to guys whose skulls look absolutely 0% cromag like some uralic guy's skull as though it's cromag. Guys like that have more mong influence that's why you can't come to terms with the fact that cromag essentially is longheaded - because so are neanderthal.


Looks like you didn't really understand what my concern was over the whole Cro-Magnon issue. Basically, anyone who has visible gonial angles gets called "CM" here, and that pisses me off, just like it should piss off anyone who has seen pictures of actual Cro-Magnon skulls. The term Cro-Magnid is not invalid, I just don't think people here are using it correctly. Likewise, I think the way Cleve and Koanic use it isn't quite valid either, which is something that I have said before. That's for a different reason, though. What they are referring to when they say Cro-Mag probably needs a name change, because the use of the term has caused a lot of confusion.

The Uralic guy looks much closer to Cro-Magnon skulls than some people who get labelled CM here, such as myself. He lacks superficial cranial features like the cranial ridges, and probably has a smaller cranial volume, but he has a short, broad face and small eye sockets, so metrically he would cluster more closely with Cro-Magnons than someone like myself would. You are understating his resemblance to Cro-Magnon man, probably because you believe Cro-Magnon had a longer face than the skull shows (and I still don't understand this). Still, I would object to calling him a Cro-Magnid. Anyway, if Cro-Magnons were longheaded, Borrebies should not be classified as such. If I see someone with a short, broad face, long head, small eye sockets, and rugged features, I would call them Cro-Magnid. But how many people actually look like that? I've hardly seen any.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Cromag 1 was doli, so were all the really early pure cromag types.

Yes but it makes sense that Cro Magnon man would have developed into brachycephalic beings though.

For 2 reasons.

1.) Since Cro Magnon man lived in the arctic where brachycephlic skulls are more useful as they retain more heat, which is helpful in the cold.

2.) Also because brachycephalic skulls are more advanced with more advanced brain which is also helpful to survive the arctic by being more intelligent.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

This thread has an example of a really cromag looking guy. Agree? Disagree? Cleves theories are very much an eyeball type approach. So you can't take what he thinks of as cromag to be the same as what real cromag is.

If borreby formed a stable race it should be related to the original ones, and seems like they did since they range in a certain area and many people have the type (especially in the past). Keltic Nordid has some dinaric mix as well, but unmixed dinaric or heavily dinaric people are extremely rare in most of europe. There were dinarics in england before keltics came and that was the end result, but archaeologically they cease to exist once they come and don't show up unmixed today.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?119239-Classify-Paul-Scharner


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/12-06-05-aut-rom-freundschaftsspiel-248.jpg/200px-12-06-05-aut-rom-freundschaftsspiel-248.jpg

http://static1.kleinezeitung.at/system/galleries_520x335/upload/1/7/1/3092601/scharner_apa_150812.jpg

http://i1.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article3316029.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Paul-Scharner-3316029.jpg

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Looks like you didn't really understand what my concern was over the whole Cro-Magnon issue. Basically, anyone who has visible gonial angles gets called "CM" here, and that pisses me off, just like it should piss off anyone who has seen pictures of actual Cro-Magnon skulls. The term Cro-Magnid is not invalid, I just don't think people here are using it correctly.


Some people just are not good at classifying, especially away from their area. I mean you can't expect albanians and georgians to have strong idea about NW europe.

But it's valid to say CM in the general sense, like I said, because types like borreby are heavily CM influenced. Especially when you can't decide exact classification, or there's no exact classification that fits.



Likewise, I think the way Cleve and Koanic use it isn't quite valid either, which is something that I have said before. That's for a different reason, though. What they are referring to when they say Cro-Mag probably needs a name change, because the use of the term has caused a lot of confusion.

The Uralic guy looks much closer to Cro-Magnon skulls than some people who get labelled CM here, such as myself.


Well, two wrongs don't make a right. I don't think either of you are remotely cromag. Like I said some people are not good at classifying certain types or even most types.



He lacks superficial cranial features like the cranial ridges, and probably has a smaller cranial volume, but he has a short, broad face and small eye sockets, so metrically he would cluster more closely with Cro-Magnons than someone like myself would.


But here we go back again to the thread...no, cromagnons were NOT brachy! If they are brachy it came through mixing, or perhaps through reduction (everyone goes towards brachy the more bone they lose).




You are understating his resemblance to Cro-Magnon man, probably because you believe Cro-Magnon had a longer face than the skull shows (and I still don't understand this). Still, I would object to calling him a Cro-Magnid. Anyway, if Cro-Magnons were longheaded, Borrebies should not be classified as such. If I see someone with a short, broad face, long head, small eye sockets, and rugged features, I would call them Cro-Magnid. But how many people actually look like that? I've hardly seen any.

Nah, he has zero resemblance to CM so far as I can tell. He is obviously not wholly european, he comes from somewhere east of finnland for sure. Certainly at least he's got 1/10th the cromag resemblance I have - I am almost certainly the most cromag person who has posted pictures here. I think cleve definitions have soaked in, but hitler was very against mongrel types and central asians etc. He would actually fit into most central asian areas even though he looks less obviously mongol. That was whole point of that poster, to villify the mongol hordes of russia and east europe.

[Harkonnen]

hmmm


The race's characteristics such as a short stature, short limbs, wide, sturdy bodies, non-prominent chins, massive under-jaws, big, rough bones, eyes standing out, broad faces.

Their counterpart, the West Baltic race (also Neanderthal & Cro-Magnon hybrid), which their population survived but not their languages and cultures, tend to show features that are much more to that of Cro-Magnon men, just like most other Europeans. These include tall statures, narrow bodies, slim builds, muscular, light, rosy skin, prominent chins, long limbs, round heads, and bones that are smooth and are not large.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Baltic_race

This is really what baffles me in physical anthro. Seems that they just arbitrarily decide a set of traits to represent some original type of some area of the world. How can Baltid type be short limbed when according to Coon Actual People From The East Baltic have the longest limbs (well at least arms) in all of Europe?


In view of this impending absorption, it is fortunate that the Livs have been subjected to careful anthropometric study.89 Two series of 100 adult males each, measured in 1878 and 1922, both yield a mean stature of 174 cm.; hence the Livs are very tall, and have derived none of their height through the modern increase mechanism which has elevated other peoples in northwestern Europe. They are large boned, long limbed, and at the same time heavy and powerfully built; their shoulders are broad, but their relative sitting height of 51.3 shows an excess of leg rather than body length.



The Esthonians, who number over a million in their own country and some 150,000 in Russia, resemble the Livs in most respects.92 Tall stature of 172 cm. or over is typical of the Esths who live on the island of Ösel and along the northern and western coast; inland, means of 170 cm. are usual, while in the southeastern parishes this is reduced to 168 cm. There is some evidence that the tall stature of the Esths is in part due to a modern increase, since in 1878 regional recruit means draughted into the Russian army varied from 166 to 169 cm. In bodily proportions the Esths are seen to be frequently heavily built, with long bodies and the extremely high relative span of 107 or 108. It was this excessive development of the arms and shoulders, along with a wide mandible, that the Norwegians found most characteristic of the Finns who had affected the population of their southeastern provinces.

The range of these early soldiers is from 137 cm. to 207 cm., and the latter figure reflects the fact that Finland has furnished some of the world's most famous cases of giantism. Like the Livs, the Finns have, apparently, always been tall, and have not been as much affected by the modern increase as have their neighbors across the Baltic. The bodily proportions of the Finns show no unusual features; a relative span of 104.597 is higher than that of most Scandinavians, while a relative sitting height of 53 is moderate.

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IX10.htm


Baltids aren't dolicocephalic, but usually brachy.

Do you have problems with reading comprehension? Obviously that is the exact reason why that guy added the dolicocephalic in front of baltid, as in a type similar to baltid only dolicocephalic.

[Zmey Gorynych]

The only Cromagnid types are Faelid, East-Cromagnid, Paleoatlantid and Brunn (although brunns often look reduced). Cromagnois (predominantly Cromagnid types) are West-Baltid, Borreby, Brunn (see above) . Alpinois, Baltids and other robust types are not CM in any way. Modern Cromagnid types are mesocephalic (great length and width of the skull). Original Cro-Magnons were most likely dolicocephalic.


I am almost certainly the most cromag person who has posted pictures here. I think cleve definitions have soaked in, but hitler was very against mongrel types and central asians etc. He would actually fit into most central asian areas even though he looks less obviously mongol. That was whole point of that poster, to villify the mongol hordes of russia and east europe.
Far from it, you have a long face and hyperbrachycephalic skull (your info, not mine) and that is the opposite of CM.


Well, faelids are meso-dolicho afterall, although CMs may appear shorter skulled, than augricanoid due to the fact that they have different skull shapes, Augricanoids appear more dolichocephalic because they usually have more projecting occupits, here you can see it on Faelid\Nordid example
http://s001.radikal.ru/i196/1110/87/8da8e7c81230.jpg
The first one is a very good example of a modern CM type. Almost no other influnences unlike the second example who has a clear Nordid influence.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I was wrong about being brachy, I am meso. Also, my face is long but it's also very wide. I am influenced by other type, but my features are very cromag.

What do you think of pics I posted above as an example? Or bruce campbell?

[Zmey Gorynych]

What do you think of pics I posted above as an example? Or bruce campbell?
Bruce Campbell is a mix. He looks predominantly gracile (atlantid) to me but with considerable CM admixture. If you want an example of a darker CM type then Dominic Purcell is one of the best you'll find. He has certain neolithic traits (like a less prominent browridge, not so deep-set eyes, slighlty convex nose) but overall he's as CM as they come.

http://famous-wallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Dominic-Purcell-3-1280.jpg
http://us.cdn003.fansshare.com/photos/dominicpurcell/dominic-purcell-gossip-2103666998.jpg

[gold_fenix]

Bruce Campbell is a mix. He looks predominantly gracile (atlantid) to me but with considerable CM admixture. If you want an example of a darker CM type then Dominic Purcell is one of the best you'll find. He has certain neolithic traits (like a less prominent browridge, not so deep-set eyes, slighlty convex nose) but overall he's as CM as they come.

http://famous-wallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Dominic-Purcell-3-1280.jpg
http://us.cdn003.fansshare.com/photos/dominicpurcell/dominic-purcell-gossip-2103666998.jpg

you has reason, but there are very obvius CM traits in him , small ears, low end bundle in the head (in auragnoid is higher), wide face

btw, zmey and melonhead do you have both profile photos? i want to do a comparison, but this in private

[Zmey Gorynych]

you has reason, but there are very obvius CM traits in him , small ears, low end bundle in the head (in auragnoid is higher), wide face
He's definitely CM, gracile influences in him are minor and negligible.

[Savageous]

Do I have any CM ? I'm from European region

https://imgur.com/a/qQq0WBn