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View Full Version : Should Crimea and Turkey have a Russian History Month ?



RussiaPrussia
03-20-2014, 12:29 AM
yeah yeah the poor innocent crimean tatars always tortured and abused by the Russians
https://www.kyivpost.com/media/images/2013/03/18/p17lvaqqmb10c17rhkd6b1ecme4/big.jpg


but go read their true history, about their crimes against humanity, Turkey and Crimea should have a Russian history month where young people learn about their horrific crimes they and their Turkic brothers did to Russian and other People

Slave Trade in the Early Modern Crimea From the Perspective of Christian, Muslim, and Jewish Sources | Mikhail Kizilov - Academia.edu ('http://www.academia.edu/2971600/Slave_Trade_in_the_Early_Modern_Crimea_From_the_Pe rspective_of_Christian_Muslim_and_Jewish_Sources')



Numerous sources testify that before 1475 in addition to the Tatars,it was mostly Genoese merchants, known as merciless slave traders, whowere taking large numbers of captives from the port of Caffa either to Genoa or to the Moldavian ports and then further west.

The numberof Tatar slave-raids increased considerably soon after the Ottoman con-quest. The economy of the Crimean Khanate was not particularly pros-perous. Plundering neighboring countries was, therefore, one of theeasiest ways of keeping the economic situation in the country on theproper level—slaves had always been among the most needed anddemanded commodities to be sold both within the country and with-out. The slave trade was a cornerstone of the Crimea’s economy in theEarly Modern period—and a decrease in prices of the slaves also signified




According to almost all written sources, the main income of theCrimean Khanate came from raids upon the territories of adjacent coun-tries and from the trade in slaves captured during these military cam-paigns. The
first major Tatar raid for captives took place in 1468 andwas directed into Galicia.
According to some estimates, in the
first half of the seventeenth century the number of the captives taken to theCrimea was around 150,000-200,000 persons. About 100,000 of themwere captured in the period between 1607 and 1617.
The CrimeanTatars invaded Slavic lands 38 times from 1654 to 1657; 52,000 peo-ple were seized by the Tatars in the spring of 1655 in the course of araid into the territory of Ukraine and Southern Russia.

The numberof Tatar raids seems to have diminished in the eighteenth century due to the growth of Russian strength in the southern regions and a few Russo-Turkish wars, which partially took place in the Crimean territory.
Nevertheless, in 1758 there were around 40,000 slaves captured during
a raid on Moldavia10 and in 1769, during one of the very last Tatar
incursions into Russian and Polish territory, the amount of “live booty”
was about 20,000 souls.11
The demographic importance of the slave trade in the Early Modern
Crimea and Ottoman Empire also should not be underestimated.
Thousands and thousands of Christian female slaves and children were
converted to Islam annually. Soon these neophytes forgot about their
non-Turkic origins and their offspring often would not even be aware
of their Christian past. The descendants of the slaves in the Crimean
Khanate were usually called by a generic term „çora.” One of such „çoras,”
who was a slave no longer, but whose inferior social status was still
remembered by the local Tatars, was met in 1916 in the Northern
Crimea by Alexander Samoilovich. This çora, who spoke pure Tatar
and was a faithful Muslim, had the distinctive appearance of a Russian
peasant from the Riazan’ region.1




Some authors stated that the Crimean Tatars in general preferred
taking foreign female slaves as wives because of rather ugly appearance
of Tatar women.13 Indeed, the Circassian women, while being renowned
for their beauty, were often taken as concubines by the Crimean khans
and Ottoman sultans; as a consequence, many of the Crimean and
Ottoman princes were in fact of Circassian origin.14 A Ruthenian captive, Alexandra-Roxolana (a.k.a. Hurrem Sultan), the favorite wife of
Süleyman the Magnificent, was perhaps one of the most influential
women in the history of the Ottoman Empire.15 The legend about the
Crimean khan who had fallen in love with the Polish captive Maria
Potocka inspired the famous Russian poet Alexander Pushkin to compose a poem “The fountain of Bahçesaray” (Russ. “Bakhchisaraiskii
fontan”). Instances of taking foreign female slaves as concubines and
wives were equally frequent also among ordinary Crimean Tatars and
Turks.




Most of Tatar inland raids were made into the adjacent regions and
countries: Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Moldavia, Georgia, Mingrelia and
Circassia. On their way back they had to pass the narrow isthmus
defended by the fortress of Or (Perekop).20 Customs had to be paid first
there, and later in Kırk Yer (Çufut-Kale); dues were collected by special officers called tam<acı and tartnaqcı.
21
Then the fates of the captives taken to the Crimea may have differed.
Some remained in the hands of the Tatars, who then used them for
their own purposes as domestic and agricultural workers or artisans.
According to Marcin Broniewski (1578), the Tatars seldom cultivated
the soil themselves, with most of their land tilled by the Hungarian,
Ruthenian, Russian, and Walachian (Moldavian) slaves.22 Especially
worth mentioning are the prisoners of war—Zaporozhian and Don
Cossacks, undaunted pirate-brigands from Southern Ukraine and Russia,
whose frequent maritime and inland raids devastated many ports and towns
of the Crimea and Turkey in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.23




Contemporary European sources are full of descriptions of the Tatars
as “the detestable people of Satan,” who should be “thrust down to
their Tartaria (or Hell).”29 When describing the siege of Caffa in 1348,
the chroniclers depicted the Crimean Tatars as one of the worst infidel
nations, struck by God with a terrible decease (i.e. the plague), which
they later spread to the Christians.30 Many European thinkers were contemplating reasons for the existence of such phenomena as slavery and
often explained it as some sort of divine punishment for not keeping
the Christian faith and morality. One of the important Crimean historians, the Armenian priest Xacatur of Caffa, who witnessed the arrival
of numberless crowds of Christian captives from Poland to the Crimeanslave trade in the early modern crimea
Early modern Christian sources are full of descriptions of sufferings
of Christian slaves captured by the Crimean Tatars in the course of
their raids to the adjacent countries:
Among these unfortunates there are many strong ones; if they [the Tatars] have
not castrated them yet, they cut off their ears and nostrils, burned cheeks and foreheads with the burning iron and forced them to work with their chains and shackles during the daylight, and sit in the prisons during the night; they are sustained
by the meager food consisting of the dead animals’ meat, rotten, full of worms,
which even a dog would not eat. The youngest women are kept for wanton pleasures...32
The same source described the sorrowful position of the Polish slaves
in the slave-market in Caffa.33 Blaise de Vigenere, who had never visited Tatar lands, left an even more depressing description of the Tatar
captivity. He stated that the old men and children were usually given
to be tortured by the young Tatars so that the latter would learn how
to kill “as if the hunters give partridges to be torn to pieces by the
young falcons.”34 One of the Crimean Muslim authors, Hacı Mehmed
Senai, also mentioned that after a successful raid into Poland and Ukraine
in the course of the Khmel’nyts’kyi (Chmielnicki) rebellion (1648) each
Tatar soldier killed about 10-15 captives for his own amusement.35




Especially interesting for our topic is a conversation between the French
ambassador to the Crimea Baron de Tott and the Crimean Khan Kırım
Giray, which took place right in the midst of the last Tatar slave raid
into Russia and Ukraine in 1769. The discussion started after the Khan
had received his tithe of slaves (about 2,000 souls) and decided to donate
six young Russian slaves to de Tott. The diplomat did not really like
this idea and, in order to avoid this awkward gift, refused to accept the
slaves. De Tott pretended that he could not accept Russian slaves because
of the friendly relations between his country, France, and Russia. Slightly
surprised, the Khan suggested that the Baron accept six Georgians
instead of Russians and remarked: “War makes Slaves, Friendship gives
and Friendship receives them, which is all our Concern.” The Baron,
however, found another excuse saying that his religion would not allow
this. The Khan found this argument to be persuasive enough and insisted
no more: “I, my Friend, have my Religion likewise; which permits me
to give male Slaves to the Christians, but commands me to keep the
female in order to make them Converts.”





Even in the eighteenth century, at the time of European Enlightenmentand emancipation, the Crimea continued to be a symbol of dark Muslimpower, a slave trade, captivity and humiliation in the eyes of ChristianEurope. It was only in 1774-1783 that the Russian annexation of thepeninsula stopped for good this inhuman trade of live objects. The slavetrade was never again resurrected in the region and now only Ukrainianfolk-songs, like the one quoted as the epigraph to this article, remindus of the fact that once this land could hear the laments and cries of sorrow of the Crimea’s most unhappy visitors—slaves, captives, and pris-oners of war—taken without their will faraway from home to be soldas a sort of “live implements” and spend the end of their days in miseryand exhaustive physical labor.

SobieskisavedEurope
03-20-2014, 12:31 AM
Tatars enslaved 4 million Eastern Europeans!

Why don't you like Tatars are they not your Asiatic Ubermensch!?

Crn Volk
03-20-2014, 12:37 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about the Crimean Tatars. Turks seem to be creating an issue where non exists.

RussiaPrussia
03-20-2014, 01:06 AM
Tatars enslaved 4 million Eastern Europeans!

Why don't you like Tatars are they not your Asiatic Ubermensch!?

nope, we have even more haplogroup N than them

RussiaPrussia
03-20-2014, 01:51 AM
How Turks describe the Slave Trade

http://pgwebdesign.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/morgiana-the-Clever-ali-baba-igital-Art-Paintings-Airbrushing-Fantasy.jpg


How it really was

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/images/paintings/dov/large/kt_dov_17_014_large.jpg

random
03-20-2014, 09:16 AM
should modern day white americans be discriminated against because their ancestors had slaves ?

PowerControls
03-20-2014, 09:21 AM
should modern day white americans be discriminated against because their ancestors had slaves ?

/RussiaPrussia mode on

Yes, definitely. But not becasue they had slaves... they should be discriminated becasue they are Americans! America is evil!

/RussiaPrusia mode off

PowerControls
03-20-2014, 09:27 AM
And this old, crying lady in the first picture...she participated in this last slave raid in 1769. She personally captured the approximately 20 young men - you got what you deserved.

wvwvw
03-20-2014, 09:30 AM
should modern day white americans be discriminated against because their ancestors had slaves ?

Americans have apologised for their crimes, No Muslim country has ever apologised about ANYTHING, EVER

niyeneden
03-20-2014, 12:08 PM
Yeah let's compare recent things with things that happenned in medieval ages. And from now and we should have full support for White American and German massacre. Maybe that way we could get rid of retarded people like you.

blogen
03-20-2014, 12:23 PM
Yeah let's compare recent things with things that happenned in medieval ages. And from now and we should have full support for White American and German massacre. Maybe that way we could get rid of retarded people like you.

The Medieval ended with the 15th century, but the last tatar raid happened in 1717 in Hungary. In the last raid the Tatars destroyed many village and city in Transsylvania. For example the Magyars in the ex city of Szék (totally destroyed, now a village only) carry black since then, because of the mourning of their victims (90% of the population):

http://www.szek-sic.ro/szeki/szeki-viselet2-n.jpg

Finally the royal troops with county militias defeated and massacred the Tatar-Moldovan raiders in the Carpathians (the Moldovans defeated only, since since they retreated early).

niyeneden
03-20-2014, 01:04 PM
The Medieval ended with the 15th century, but the last tatar raid happened in 1717 in Hungary. In the last raid the Tatars destroyed many village and city in Transsylvania. For example the Magyars in the ex city of Szék (totally destroyed, now a village only) carry black since then, because of the mourning of their victims (90% of the population):

http://www.szek-sic.ro/szeki/szeki-viselet2-n.jpg

Finally the royal troops with county militias defeated and massacred the Tatar-Moldovan raiders in the Carpathians (the Moldovans defeated only, since since they retreated early).

Age classifications are made according to Western Europe. Cultural structure of Eastern Europe was never like West's. And it stayed same until the 19th century and didn't changed much until then.

And the second, those raids happenned before 1700's and completely stopped at 1717 as you said. And RAIDERS made those things not country, not people.
In the other hand Crimean Tatars(Turks) faced with massacres and exiles in 20th century. Those things ordered by country and against whole Tatar population.

According to your point of view we should let countries take a revenge from people, for things that happenned 300 years ago.

blogen
03-20-2014, 01:30 PM
Age classifications are made according to Western Europe. Cultural structure of Eastern Europe was never like West's. And it stayed same until the 19th century and didn't changed much until then.

Hungary is a western country than any other western country.


And the second, those raids happenned before 1700's and completely stopped at 1717 as you said. And RAIDERS made those things not country, not people.

Tatars made those things. The Tatar nation, the Tatar state, the Tatar army. This is their responsibility.


In the other hand Crimean Tatars(Turks) faced with massacres and exiles in 20th century. Those things ordered by country and against whole Tatar population.
According to your point of view we should let countries take a revenge from people, for things that happenned 300 years ago.

The Christian Serb marauders of the Ottoman army and the Ottoman's Tatar allies killed it the most Hungarians in the Turkish wars. We Hungarians do not feel pity for the Tartars. The Romanian majority would not exist in Transylvania without the Tartar raids. The Tatars exterminated the medieval Hungarian mayority there.

This is the past, yes. But based on this, nothing special happened with the Tartars in the twentieth century. Nobody liked the Crimean Tatars in Europe.

niyeneden
03-20-2014, 01:41 PM
Hungary is a western country than any other western country.



Tatars made those things. The Tatar nation, the Tatar state, the Tatar army. This is their responsibility.



The Christian Serb marauders of the Ottoman army and the Ottoman's Tatar allies killed it the most Hungarians in the Turkish wars. We Hungarians do not feel pity for the Tartars. The Romanian majority would not exist in Transylvania without the Tartar raids. The Tatars exterminated the medieval Hungarian mayority there.

This is the past, yes. But based on this, nothing special happened with the Tartars in the twentieth century. Nobody liked the Crimean Tatars in Europe.

You are still talking about Ottomans and past stuff, it's unbelievable. The things that happenned to Tatars in 20th century are NOT ordinaryfor those times. Maybe it would be normal and not special if it would just occurred in 17-18th century(Russians started performing massacres and exiles to Tatars the day they annexed their lands anyway.)

blogen
03-20-2014, 01:45 PM
You are still talking about Ottomans and past stuff, it's unbelievable. The things that happenned to Tatars in 20th century are NOT ordinaryfor those times. Maybe it would be normal and not special if it would just occurred in 17-18th century(Russians started performing massacres and exiles to Tatars the day they annexed their lands anyway.)

And? 17th century or 20th century. This is totally indifferent. We live in the 21th century. If the crimes of the past is important, the all crimes are important from this past. Not only the Russian's crimes or the Magyar's crimes (we were slave traders in this same steppe, this business is usual since the Scythians), but the Tatar's crimes too!

denz
03-21-2014, 07:11 PM
Yeah, a peacekeeper Russian (germanussian) humanitarianism speaks. Dude, firstly, start not teach history to one ancient race. We are not 50 years old state. Slavery, war crimes, violence, millions of death or exile, we also suffered but it doesn't mean that today's Russia will humiliate Tatars own rights.

Just a slavs moved not long ago to that soil, just change the demographic structure of the area, keep reading Crimean history and wars we made before...

RussiaPrussia
03-22-2014, 11:56 PM
it should also be noted that jews had a leading rule in this slave trade if you go to my link and read the whole article

StonyArabia
03-23-2014, 05:13 AM
Circassians have nothing to do with Russians.

random
04-01-2014, 10:31 AM
Americans have apologised for their crimes, No Muslim country has ever apologised about ANYTHING, EVER

Does that mean they should be punished or persecuted ? NO because modern day muslims in europe and the ME don't/didn't have slaves + they didn't raid people to enslave them.

Crn Volk
04-01-2014, 11:34 PM
Does that mean they should be punished or persecuted ? NO because modern day muslims in europe and the ME don't/didn't have slaves + they didn't raid people to enslave them.

Yes, the Ottoman was a peaceful utopia....:picard2:

RussiaPrussia
04-02-2014, 12:04 AM
Circassians have nothing to do with Russians.

they have everything to do with ottomans

StonyArabia
04-02-2014, 03:05 AM
they have everything to do with ottomans

Certainly Not. Circassians have nothing to do with Russians or Ottomans. Though of you are going to pull evidence from thin air to state so.

portusaus
04-02-2014, 03:19 AM
Yeah, as long as Krimea is in Slavic hands forever it's all good. Damn Islamic dogs

RussiaPrussia
04-02-2014, 03:52 AM
Certainly Not. Circassians have nothing to do with Russians or Ottomans. Though of you are going to pull evidence from thin air to state so.

the article states how your women were sold to the ottomans

random
04-04-2014, 03:38 AM
Yes, the Ottoman was a peaceful utopia....:picard2:
:picard2:

DarkSecret
04-05-2014, 09:33 PM
Yes, the Ottoman was a peaceful utopia....:picard2:

Yes mostly...

DarkSecret
04-05-2014, 09:35 PM
the article states how your women were sold to the ottomans

Stop provoking our Circassian brothers and sisters you светло-голубой сука...

Chichic
04-05-2014, 09:44 PM
Stop provoking our Circassian brothers and sisters you светло-голубой сука...

Circassians are not related to Turks

DarkSecret
04-05-2014, 09:47 PM
Circassians are not related to Turks

The difference between Russians and Germans doesn't even exist...

Chichic
04-05-2014, 09:56 PM
The difference between Russians and Germans doesn't even exist...

Circassians are no lousy Turks, they are true Caucasians!

Cleitus
04-05-2014, 10:02 PM
Russians shouldnt talk about Crimes against Humanity which were commited by others they have their own :laugh:

DarkSecret
04-05-2014, 10:27 PM
Circassians are no lousy Turks, they are true Caucasians!

Did I say they were Turks? No.. So stop hallucinating...

RussiaPrussia
04-06-2014, 01:05 AM
Stop provoking our Circassian brothers and sisters you светло-голубой сука...

you mad bro?`look what the article says made by a serious historian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_beauties


During the Ottoman Empire, Circassian women living as slaves in the Sultan's Imperial Harem started to build their reputation as extremely beautiful and genteel, which then became a common trope in Western Orientalism.

i guess youre right your women are ugly sluts

Chichic
04-06-2014, 01:43 AM
Did I say they were Turks? No.. So stop hallucinating...

You are saying that Turks and Caucasians like Circassians and Vainakhs are related with each other, which is wrong.