Brazil São Paulo says 60% White, but crowd say otherwise.what percent of these people pass in Europe

[GrebluBro]

http://s2.glbimg.com/MXUfE-UpyFOBYF2PuhZKAlNdxPn0kU-pgNeNxiSCpR8rykAwNd2lj6Ds6f7lDThT/s.glbimg.com/es/ge/f/original/2012/10/21/torcida_pontepreta_rib.jpghttp://s2.glbimg.com/6JDt1-zDf--GYIqU_5XJ7lstm7eBHw-7TwVqEAjEb5MYsXe7RavirbhJa8wJXkTs/s.glbimg.com/es/ge/f/original/2012/04/16/xv002_620.jpghttp://portal.rac.com.br/multimidia/imagens/2011/07/16/Ponte-Preta-Guarani-Edu-3G.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5263/5650589367_8d4d1c56d2.jpghttp://globoesporte.globo.com/Esportes/foto/0,,38453199-EX,00.jpghttp://veja2.abrilm.com.br/assets/images/2012/6/82808/metro-transporte-lotacao-publico-sao-paulo-20120606-54-size-598.jpg?1340036511http://transporteseguro.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/metro_linha3vermelha.jpghttp://img.terra.com.br/i/2009/04/16/1170082-5489-atm17.jpghttp://www.siemens.com.br/desenvolvimento-sustentado-em-megacidades/images/mobilidade-urbana-sao-paulo_596xn.jpghttp://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/2F77/FE44/012F/84A1/A8CB/3BEC/metro-se-hg-20110423.jpghttp://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C92/94A3/2CCE/C325/012C/D25E/B39A/1D49/metro-barra-funda-2-g-20101210.jpghttp://n.i.uol.com.br/ultnot/album/111031raioxmetro_f_047.jpghttp://img.r7.com/images/2012/12/23/15_09_31_575_file?dimensions=460x300http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/33CB/0496/0133/CBA9/09FB/177C/consola%C3%A7%C3%A3o-linha-amarela-G.jpghttp://imguol.com/2012/12/13/13dez2012---lixeiras-sao-usadas-para-conter-goteiras-na-estacao-faria-lima-do-metro-na-zona-oeste-de-sao-paulo-nesta-quinta-feira-a-forte-chuva-que-atingiu-a-cidade-na-tarde-de-hoje-causa-ainda-1355436899262_956x500.jpghttp://imguol.com/2012/09/11/11set2012---movimentacao-de-passageiros-e-intensa-na-estacao-pinheiros-do-metro-linha-4--amarela-por-volta-das-18h-nesta-terca-feira-1347409406798_956x500.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NeUf6HCstKw/TO5eAX4WnQI/AAAAAAAAAAs/9Z_t3aj_D2M/s1600/DSC06094.JPGhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lHe4vfVZbqo/TBkJQx7nK2I/AAAAAAAAAFc/4XQyzRGNrJw/s1600/DSC05513.JPGhttp://s.glbimg.com/jo/g1/f/original/2010/05/25/metro_.jpghttp://farm5.staticflickr.com/4033/4686410910_5386f04521.jpg


Don't just see pics, also comment what percent of Crowd pass in Europe; Some more pics following

[GrebluBro]

http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/33CB/0496/0133/CBA9/09FB/177C/consola%C3%A7%C3%A3o-linha-amarela-G.jpg
http://blog.pittsburgh.com.br/pseudopapel/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/carro-trem-serie-1700-cptm-lotado.jpghttp://n.i.uol.com.br/ultnot/album/100921metrosp_f_013.jpghttp://imguol.com/2012/05/23/23mai2012---movimentacao-na-manha-desta-quarta-feira-23-na-estacao-barra-funda-na-linha-3-vermelha-do-metro-de-sao-paulo-na-zona-oeste-da-capital-paulista-1337788613936_956x500.jpghttp://f.i.uol.com.br/fotografia/2012/08/23/182623-970x600-1.jpeghttp://globoesporte.globo.com/Esportes/foto/0,,40249794-EX,00.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wMRDSwdmQ1s/TQIg__2jQ6I/AAAAAAAACRI/yn1vu32g1vQ/s1600/destaque13_081210_164348.jpghttp://media-cdn.incondicionais.com.br/media/galeria/118/5/4/4/0/n_santos_f_c_25_rodada_coritiba_fc_vs_santos_f_c-5150445.jpghttp://www.burrodacentral.com.br/torcida%20taubate_sao%20bernardo%20do%20campo.JPGh ttp://s.glbimg.com/jo/g1/f/original/2012/05/05/galeria01.jpghttp://www.gazetaesportiva.net/upload/imagem/2012/11/26/t_72738_torcida-do-guarani-protesta-apos-derrota-por-2-a-1-para-o-sao-caetano-que-rebaixou-o-bugre-para-a-serie-c-nacional-neste-sabado.jpeghttp://www.sorocabaesportes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Serie-A2-Torcida-do-Guarani-Presente-em-Sorocaba-600x337.jpg


Don't just see pics, also comment what percent of Crowd pass in Europe

[Tooting Carmen]

More like 40-50%. Btw, some European cities themselves are not so different. See this latest thread of mine, for example. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?119352-Inner-city-neighbourhoods-in-London

[Sikeliot]

Offwhite for many, maybe 1/8 non-European.

[Carlito's Way]

40% in those pictures can pass in europe

[GrebluBro]

Offwhite for many, maybe 1/8 non-European.

Could you rephrase it?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Doesn't look much more dark than a lot of europe today, but as for being 70% pure white? No way. Maybe 70% 30% mix on average.

[GrebluBro]

for being 70% pure white? No way. Maybe 70% 30% mix on average.

I agree genetic make-up of average person is this crowd is 70% European 30% Ameri+Negroid.

Let's just focus on phenotype, not genotype. So what percent look White?

[armenianbodyhair]

Around fiddy

[Gauthier]

Th vast majority looks admixed.

[GrebluBro]

Th vast majority looks admixed.

70% of them look non-Euro? or even more?

[Gauthier]

70% of them look non-Euro? or even more?

That number seems adequate. This is one of the reasons why people shouldn't trust self declared race census from South American countries.

[GrebluBro]

That number seems adequate. This is one of the reasons why people shouldn't trust self declared race census from South American countries.

so reliability is barely 50% of their claim..
If we go to South Brazil, reliability is quite high..they say 80% of that region is White. Real number could be easily 70%.
If we go North, may be just 25% of what they claim is true...

[DeaththeKid]

That number seems adequate. This is one of the reasons why people shouldn't trust self declared race census from South American countries.

Yes and the same thing happens in the US census a lot of Latin Americans call themselves white but to an objective person they could not pass as white.

[GrebluBro]

Yes and the same thing happens in the US census a lot of Latin Americans call themselves white but to an objective person they could not pass as white.

About 15% of Latin Americans in the US can pass as White..

Although not 100% reliable, majority of self-declared Whites are indeed White in most Latin America countries

[GrebluBro]

===============

[The King, I am]

30%

[Isleño]

That looks about right. I'd say 70% whites, 30% mixed.

[Isleño]

About 15% of Latin Americans in the US can pass as White..

Although not 100% reliable, majority of self-declared Whites are indeed White in most Latin America countries

Lizcano study on Latin America says 40% of Latin America is made up of whites. CIA factbook says 30% are white. I'd go with 30%.

[Isleño]

About 15% of Latin Americans in the US can pass as White..

Although not 100% reliable, majority of self-declared Whites are indeed White in most Latin America countries

As far as Latin Americans in the U.S., I'd say yeah about 15% are white.

[Isleño]

30%

To me it looks double that number.

[Isleño]

Yes and the same thing happens in the US census a lot of Latin Americans call themselves white but to an objective person they could not pass as white.

The U.S. Census needs mestizo as a racial category. Most Latin Americans in the U.S. are Mexican descent. Most Mexicans are mestizo. So therefore most of the Latin Americans in the U.S. will be mestizo. Cubans in the U.S. (majority are white) and Puerto Ricans in the U.S.(majority are afromestizo, but many on the island are white) make up a minority among Latin Americans in the U.S. along with others of Latin American backgrounds. It's hard to get a more accurate count of how many white Latin Americans are in the U.S. when some mestizos are marking white on the census. If there was a mestizo option, there could be a more accurate count of mestizos and white Latin Americans.

[GrebluBro]

Lizcano study on Latin America says 40% of Latin America is made up of whites. CIA factbook says 30% are white. I'd go with 30%.

I can produce demographic data out of my ass better than CIA data :picard2:

Euro population of Major Latin countries => I've verified this with the citizens of each country; I also checked other resources
Brazil 30% => 55-60 million
Argentina 65% => 23 million
Uruguay 75% => 2.5 million
Chile 25% => 4 million
Mexico 7-10% => 8 million
others => 5-10 million

total Whites in Latin America is ~100 million => 17%; another 17% kinda Castizo range => so 1/3rd of Latin Americans are pred.White or pass-in-Europe

[GrebluBro]

That looks about right. I'd say 70% whites, 30% mixed.

You put typical Canarian Islander look as criteria?
thatz not enough, they should look typical S.Euro even atypical isn't enough when we don't know the background of a person.

Many atypical Italian are simply taken as Latino in mid-western US and as MENA in the rest of Europe..

[Argentano]

About 40 %

[Roy]

50% max, but maybe less.

[Also]

All those pictures are only from the city of São Paulo, not the whole State of São Paulo, where did you get that the city is supposedly 70% white?

[GrebluBro]

All those pictures are only from the city of São Paulo, not the whole State of São Paulo, where did you get that the city is supposedly 70% white?

If these are from just city, then census claim 60%..crowd's realistic 40% White isn't bad...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Paulo#Demographics


I think rural or small city self-declared Whites are really Whites at more reliable rate since colored people rarely migrate there, which means 50% of Sao Paulo state is really White

[GrebluBro]

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It seems pics covered only City, not whole state, so it's 60% not 70%..

[GrebluBro]

up

[brazuca]

25% of the state population of sao paulo is not born in the state, 50% of the state must be descendants of "Northeast" immigrants and "minas gerais", paulistas of origin should be at most 50% of the state.

[GrebluBro]

25% of the state population of sao paulo is not born in the state, 50% of the state must be descendants of "Northeast" immigrants and "minas gerais", paulistas of origin should be at most 50% of the state.

Dude those changes are updated in Census...disagree?

Sao Paulo would've been much whiter in both Census and in the crowd..let's check how reliable tat 60-White claim is for Sao Paulo city (not state)

[brazuca]

Dude those changes are updated in Census...disagree?

Sao Paulo would've been much whiter in both Census and in the crowd..let's check how reliable tat 60-White claim is for Sao Paulo city (not state)

formerly the state of sao paulo was much more "white" than today! I would say that in 1930 3/4 of the state's population was "white".

[GrebluBro]

formerly the state of sao paulo was much more "white" than today! I would say that in 1930 3/4 of the state's population was "white".

As of 2012, Census claim was 70%. I think realistic population who can pass in Europe would be 50% (city itself seem to have real-40% opposing to Census-60%, it's obvious mostly less-mixed people live in rural and small cities)

[brazuca]

As of 2012, Census claim was 70%. I think realistic population who can pass in Europe would be 50% (city itself seem to have real-40% opposing to Census-60%, it's obvious mostly less-mixed people live in rural and small cities)

I already said it the Brazilian census not you ask "race" and "ancestry" question only "color"! and that is this business of "passing in europe"?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Doesn't look much more dark than a lot of europe today, but as for being 70% pure white? No way. Maybe 70% 30% mix on average.

One in five, maybe one in 20 could fit to british isles 100%.

[brazuca]

One in five, maybe one in 20 could fit to british isles 100%.

white = British Isles?
curious why the term "white" is a term that natives of the Caribbean and South america have invented for calling "iberians" in 16 century not Brits who adopted the term for their colonies in the 17th century

[Rambo07]

All those pictures are only from the city of São Paulo, not the whole State of São Paulo, where did you get that the city is supposedly 70% white?

What would you say is more accurate , since your Brazilian??

I went to Brasilia and Sao Paulo in 2009.
Personally speaking 70% is waaay to high. Of what I saw 30-40%.

[Also]

What would you say is more accurate , since your Brazilian??

I went to Brasilia and Sao Paulo in 2009.
Personally speaking 70% is waaay to high. Of what I saw 30-40%.

I am not sure, but in the city of São Paulo I'd say less than half is "white".

[GrebluBro]

I went to Brasilia and Sao Paulo in 2009.
Personally speaking 70% is waaay to high. Of what I saw 30-40%.

60% is a claim for city => I think 35% sounds reliable based on this thread pics and other sources I looked into..
For Sao Paulo state (OP pics don't represent whole state), Census claim is 70%..I believe 50% is legit

[Smaug]

As I have stated many times, São Paulo received a lot of non-White immigration from Northeastern Brazil, so of course the percetage of whites dropped. We are pretty much like London now, but instead of brown South Asians, we've got brown NE Brazilians.

Here some more São Paulo crowds:

Crowds of São Paulo:

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/19-1.jpg
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/10-1.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii109/tchelllo/percepcoes%2004/34.jpg
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/23-1.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii109/tchelllo/percepcoes%2004/45.jpg
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAEpSmLqFvwj3sRhWuiVtFhJxe7ZMA0KYZL8_drMgNRwQ6T CE1NQVFJ6JJ7jV_hK1KOvw-dZuel8u1TExWnqpAsAAm1T1UCaPA4wBQ1WEcBQ2FtrzyOSjV3w I.jpg
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAN6vMvyNXOKYgtmBbgNETH8JAFOCgYxwr3KrPhNNgkcEeV w6jhmOHtrGd5tQte2NgZ_yGiLRNKq6w8WR-jZdD2UAm1T1UArePmqYhZ_4ml6eMx_OAgobTD4L.jpg
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAADq4TpjSeBtCGjbDVHcrY-fvSeUEbfCtL3Nz-rt-4EwpmKXCkASiqWZWTIdAWlN7q88NeChPiUGQvi3UuHsvreMAm1 T1UGdlaRaKnxhl6ft5MszGxPlNnt_g.jpg
http://www.pletz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/DSC00560.JPG
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/17.jpg
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAPWVZI7-It5u9PQ9P-mexIlO5-vkLWzMUIroXvZowh6bdDb5wqIVZrxrAPC_EoUkOSO1XI06IlSE-BtAtnP1wPoAm1T1UPwxn1TrF-m97M-60Scuf7iDlpOl.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii109/tchelllo/higienopolis/10.jpg
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/32-1.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8244/8525731351_604eb6dc07_b.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii109/tchelllo/percepcoes%2004/001012.jpg
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/35-1.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii109/tchelllo/percepcoes%2004/04.jpg
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/40-1.jpg
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/37-1.jpg
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg414/alvesisidoro/45-1.jpg

[Rambo07]

I see quite a few Japanese also

[Smaug]

Oh yes, these thread only covers the city of São Paulo, not the whole state. The rural areas and small towns of the state of São Paulo are still mostly White, except for Campinas. My family is from the Ribeirão Preto region in Northern São Paulo, that is still very white, many Italians, Portuguese, Lithuanians and even some British:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?101722-State-of-S%E3o-Paulo-SE-Brazil

[Also]

I see quite a few Japanese also

Yes, many japaneses in some areas of São Paulo.

[Isleño]

As of 2012, Census claim was 70%. I think realistic population who can pass in Europe would be 50% (city itself seem to have real-40% opposing to Census-60%, it's obvious mostly less-mixed people live in rural and small cities)

I went back and checked the pictures again.... To me it's really about in the 60% range for whites. Most of the people in those pictures are whites that I can place in Portugal and they would fit. Spain too even.

I made a more careful assessment of the pictures this time before I made this comment. I'm gonna stand firm with 60% white.

Thanks for reading :thumb001:

[Isleño]

Oh yes, these thread only covers the city of São Paulo, not the whole state. The rural areas and small towns of the state of São Paulo are still mostly White, except for Campinas. My family is from the Ribeirão Preto region in Northern São Paulo, that is still very white, many Italians, Portuguese, Lithuanians and even some British:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?101722-State-of-S%E3o-Paulo-SE-Brazil

I used to these two Brazilians (good friends of mine back then) and they told me they were descended from Spaniards. I have a cousin that is Brazilian, even though I am not. Her grandmother (my relation) married into a Brazilian family of Portuguese extraction.

[Lemonhead]

Around 50% in my opinion.

[Smaug]

I used to these two Brazilians (good friends of mine back then) and they told me they were descended from Spaniards. I have a cousin that is Brazilian, even though I am not. Her grandmother (my relation) married into a Brazilian family of Portuguese extraction.

Interesting. Here in São Paulo most of whites are Italian-Portuguese mixes, sometimes with German, Eastern Euro or Spanish. Most of Spaniards here are from Galicia, Castella and Andalusia.

[Isleño]

But I'm afraid the U.S. will never put mestizo on the census, because they know a very large percentage of white Americans have some Native American ancestry (small, but still there) and they could mark themselves as mestizo and the U.S. white population numbers could probably be cut in half overnight. The government I don't believe wants that to happen.

[GrebluBro]

But I'm afraid the U.S. will never put mestizo on the census, because they know a very large percentage of white Americans have some Native American ancestry (small, but still there) and they could mark themselves as mestizo and the U.S. white population numbers could probably be cut in half overnight. The government I don't believe wants that to happen.

Phenotype alone should matter.
If genetic test is cheap, almost all White people in the world would know they are mixed with West Asian or some non-Euro

[Isleño]

Interesting. Here in São Paulo most of whites are Italian-Portuguese mixes, sometimes with German, Eastern Euro or Spanish. Most of Spaniards here are from Galicia, Castella and Andalusia.

I've noticed Southern Europeans concentrated on South America more and Northern European the U.S. during early immigration. But the U.S. did have large scale Italian immigration and South America did have large scale German immigration. However, I do see where most of them immigrated.

[Isleño]

Phenotype alone should matter.
If genetic test is cheap, almost all White people in the world would know they are mixed with West Asian or some non-Euro

In a perfect world, yes.

But we know this is not a perfect world and people identify themselves the way they see fit. And if some white person that has a couple of percentages sees themselves as a European descended person mixed with Native American, they may mark mestizo, regardless of their phenotype. Even if they look full on European.

I mean it's possible. If this guy went even further with it to claim being an "American Indian"....than hey!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AtbGOBC1zU

Or these, especially these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKLOnbc1aEQ

Then there should be even more many whites/blacks that would mark mestizo.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for reading :thumb001:

[Isleño]

Phenotype alone should matter.
If genetic test is cheap, almost all White people in the world would know they are mixed with West Asian or some non-Euro

Most whites in the U.S. probably wouldn't be interested in DNA testing. But it could work if the government made it mandatory for all citizens, but that probably won't happen. I don't think they are that race obsessed. :rolleyes2:

[Realista]

São Paulo (city) is around 50% White. But it depends where you are. Poorer neighborhoods are largely Black and Mulatto, like in the rest of Brazil.