Why Are Most Geniuses European Men?

[Northern_Paladin]

Why is it that there is such a preponderance of Genius and Creativity found in the European sphere vs say East Asia or the Middle East?


Where is there such a lack of East Asian Geniuses? What in Europes Evolutionary History has made European men theones with most Prodigious Intellects?

[Electronic God-Man]

I don't know how much I believe it, but I do recall reading some study that asserted that although East Asians have a higher IQ on average than Europeans that East Asians are fairly uniform in regard to intelligence. On the other hand, Europeans have more diversity in terms of intelligence, so occasionally an exceptionally gifted man will come out as an outlier.

That's what I read. No idea how much it can be trusted.

[Northern_Paladin]

I don't know how much I believe it, but I do recall reading some study that asserted that although East Asians have a higher IQ on average than Europeans that East Asians are fairly uniform in regard to intelligence. On the other hand, Europeans have more diversity in terms of intelligence, so occasionally an exceptionally gifted man will come out as an outlier.

That's what I read. No idea how much it can be trusted.

Is that all you know?;) I've heard that too. Where is Aggrippa when you need him!

[Stefan]

I've seen quite a bit Middle Eastern and East Asian "genuises". This is definitely not a trait exclusive to Europeans, and in my opinion it is arguable for it to even be a racial one. Though it would be nice if you could define "genius" because I never thought of creativity being a defining trait of one.

[Northern_Paladin]

I've seen quite a bit Middle Eastern and East Asian "genuises". This is definitely not a trait exclusive to Europeans, and in my opinion it is arguable for it to even be a racial one. Though it would be nice if you could define "genius" because I never thought of creativity being a defining trait of one.

Genius without Creativity is not Genius.

[Loki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_polymaths

[Stefan]

Genius without Creativity is not Genius.

Well then I find that aspect to be different from what I would define "Genius" as. To me, Genius is just a term to describe those that are exceptional even among the exceptional in a specific area. It could be intelligence, creativiness, or whatever. I've found it defined many ways.

Of course that doesn't mean either I or you are wrong about how it is defined. But let's just accept your definition. I find it hard to believe that other races don't have creativity or aren't as creative as Europeans. Especially considering how specialized their culture has been before and after European contact. Now of course many have used the copy and paste model since Europeans brought industrialization, but that doesn't mean they don't have creativity of their own.

[Northern_Paladin]

I propose Europeans are Geniuses because of their temperaments. Europeans are more aggressive than Asians. That means they have to be more intelligent just to survive.

[Fortis in Arduis]

We have many amazing adaptations, autism being very prevalent in Northern Finland.

Autism is the white man's sickle cell anaemia. It produces genius, even though when fully expressed the genes are devastating.

Autistics often do not feel cold, can make arbitrary decisions regarding personal survival, often have flat feet (CM traits), red hair and preternaturally youthful looks. Nobody knows why the latter is true.

I am autistic, I can wear sandals and shorts in mid-winter.

These are adaptations for northern survival.

A tendency for logical rational thought, before obsessive social group considerations, unlike those natural collectivists of the east and south.

A tendency, an adaptation which must have saved countless European lives.

Europeans have many of these recessive adaptations, of which we have barely scratched the surface.

[Eldritch]

I don't know how much I believe it, but I do recall reading some study that asserted that although East Asians have a higher IQ on average than Europeans that East Asians are fairly uniform in regard to intelligence. On the other hand, Europeans have more diversity in terms of intelligence, so occasionally an exceptionally gifted man will come out as an outlier.

That's what I read. No idea how much it can be trusted.

This is true. The so-called Bell curve is much wider in Europe. There are fewer geniuses and fewer outright morons in Asia, although their average IQ is higher. And one genius makes a bigger difference than a hundred or thousand, or million people of just barely above-average intelligence.

[nisse]

I think cultural differences play a role too. For example, East Asians are taught to be obedient and follow rules. Creativity, independent thinking, imagination are seen as a lot less valuable than technical skill, persistance, ability to follow orders. Since theirs is a very ancient culture, they've selected for obedience for centuries. I am sure this has had an effect on the genetic level, even. By now the probability of there being a creative person is reduced even without further cultural reinforcement (which still continues)

[Amapola]

Why is it that there is such a preponderance of Genius and Creativity found in the European sphere vs say East Asia or the Middle East?


Where is there such a lack of East Asian Geniuses? What in Europes Evolutionary History has made European men theones with most Prodigious Intellects?

I think that we all are born with a creative capacity which can -then- be stimulated or not. Local environments (physical and sociocultural) can stimulate, motivate or encourage, then creativity flourishes. I don't think creativity necessarily entails intelligence but it depends on it. There are many types of creativity or (many fields to be creative in). In marketing, for example, Europe wins; however, the most creative country from a technological viewpoint is Asian: Japan, albeit the number of European countries outstrip the Asian countries:

1. Japan
2. Switzerland
3. USA
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Germany
7. Denmark
8. Taiwan
9. The Netherlands
10. Israel
11. Austria
12. France
13. Canada
14. Belgium
15. South Korea

I think enviroment is the key, and no, I don't think Asia has a lack of them anyway.

[Anthropos]

Why is it that there is such a preponderance of Genius and Creativity found in the European sphere vs say East Asia or the Middle East?


Where is there such a lack of East Asian Geniuses? What in Europes Evolutionary History has made European men theones with most Prodigious Intellects?

I heard that Europeans also have the most severe cases of Megalomania, and I wonder if this could be related? Or was it Americans? Racists? White people? :D

[Northern_Paladin]

I think that we all are born with a creative capacity which can -then- be stimulated or not. Local environments (physical and sociocultural) can stimulate, motivate or encourage, then creativity flourishes. I don't think creativity necessarily entails intelligence but it depends on it. There are many types of creativity or (many fields to be creative in). In marketing, for example, Europe wins; however, the most creative country from a technological viewpoint is Asian: Japan, albeit the number of European countries outstrip the Asian countries:

1. Japan
2. Switzerland
3. USA
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Germany
7. Denmark
8. Taiwan
9. The Netherlands
10. Israel
11. Austria
12. France
13. Canada
14. Belgium
15. South Korea

I think enviroment is the key, and no, I don't think Asia has a lack of them anyway.

That's not true. Japan just copies Western Ideas. They are not original thinkers. Very Very Few Asians if any are capable of even one Original Thought!

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I don't know how much I believe it, but I do recall reading some study that asserted that although East Asians have a higher IQ on average than Europeans that East Asians are fairly uniform in regard to intelligence. On the other hand, Europeans have more diversity in terms of intelligence, so occasionally an exceptionally gifted man will come out as an outlier.

That's what I read. No idea how much it can be trusted.

European men have a lot of Dutch blood in them----true,really true.:thumb001:

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I think that we all are born with a creative capacity which can -then- be stimulated or not. Local environments (physical and sociocultural) can stimulate, motivate or encourage, then creativity flourishes. I don't think creativity necessarily entails intelligence but it depends on it. There are many types of creativity or (many fields to be creative in). In marketing, for example, Europe wins; however, the most creative country from a technological viewpoint is Asian: Japan, albeit the number of European countries outstrip the Asian countries:

1. Japan
2. Switzerland
3. USA
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Germany
7. Denmark
8. Taiwan
9. The Netherlands
10. Israel
11. Austria
12. France
13. Canada
14. Belgium
15. South Korea

I think enviroment is the key, and no, I don't think Asia has a lack of them anyway.

The Dutch are on 9 the ultimate of intelligence.

Number 9 - Judgment of Man and his Works Number 9 - Number of Finality, the End, Conclusion of a Matter, Amen

Number 9 - Judgment of Sodom, Siege of Jerusalem, Hell


http://www.southasianconnection.com/blogs/1204/Biblical-Significance-of-Number-9.html


God created the world,but not the Netherlands,this country was created by the Dutch.:eek::eek:;)

[Amapola]

That's not true. Japan just copies Western Ideas. They are not original thinkers. Very Very Few Asians if any are capable of even one Original Thought!

Even if I agree, that is the claim of every study... :thumb001:

[Taciturn]

I don't know how much I believe it, but I do recall reading some study that asserted that although East Asians have a higher IQ on average than Europeans that East Asians are fairly uniform in regard to intelligence. On the other hand, Europeans have more diversity in terms of intelligence, so occasionally an exceptionally gifted man will come out as an outlier.

That's what I read. No idea how much it can be trusted.


This is true. The so-called Bell curve is much wider in Europe. There are fewer geniuses and fewer outright morons in Asia, although their average IQ is higher.

Someone at the Phora said that they emailed Richard Lynn, Rushton, et al asking about this, and all of them said that there is no evidence whatsoever that Asians have a lesser degree of IQ variation than Europids. Apparently this entire notion is little more than baseless conjecture, common as it may be among certain circles.

[Northern_Paladin]

Even if I agree, that is the claim of every study... :thumb001:

These studies are flawed. Scientists are just career liars.
The chief flaw of the Asian male is his lack of manliness not his "intelligence".

[Óttar]

In China, they are collectivists par excellence. The individual lives almost completely for the group. This leads to a lack of creativity, but a high performance in school and work. With traditional arranged marriage, they don't have to worry about chasing tail at all. I don't think there are more European geniuses than Asians however. The Japanese on the other hand, have adopted and developed Western technology and other aspects of Western culture since the Meiji Era. They imported Germans to develop their constitution, political and legal system, and Americans and British to modernise weaponry. One high ranking Japanese official recommended bringing in English women to infuse the Japanese with European blood. :D

[Northern_Paladin]

In China, they are collectivists par excellence. The individual lives almost completely for the group. This leads to a lack of creativity, but a high performance in school and work. With traditional arranged marriage, they don't have to worry about chasing tail at all. I don't think there are more European geniuses than Asians however. The Japanese on the other hand, have adopted and developed Western technology and other aspects of Western culture since the Meiji Era. They imported Germans to develop their constitution, political and legal system, and Americans and British to modernise weaponry. One high ranking Japanese official recommended bringing in English women to infuse the Japanese with European blood. :D

Yes all hail the Japanese for the slavish copying of Western Technology. Bravo. Bravo. The Japanese have not developed anything in Europe.

[Loddfafner]

Asians, starting with the Japanese and then the Chinese and finally Koreans, at least in the US, have become noticeably more original and less slavish in recent years. The extent of this shift strengthens arguments that the old lack of creativity is more cultural (based on an education system that emphasized rote learning) than racial.

[Northern_Paladin]

Asians, starting with the Japanese and then the Chinese and finally Koreans, at least in the US, have become noticeably more original and less slavish in recent years. The extent of this shift strengthens arguments that the old lack of creativity is more cultural (based on an education system that emphasized rote learning) than racial.

Yeah right. They are creative geniuses. The Asians I know can not compare in intellect with the Whites I know.

[Psychonaut]

Asians, starting with the Japanese and then the Chinese and finally Koreans, at least in the US, have become noticeably more original and less slavish in recent years. The extent of this shift strengthens arguments that the old lack of creativity is more cultural (based on an education system that emphasized rote learning) than racial.

Yup. I'd also say that the extreme collectivism that we now see in China is a relatively recent phenomenon. China has been host to high cultures who've risen and fallen since the 12th century BC. A thousand years ago, they may've been asking why most geniuses were Chinese.

[Majar]

Why is it that there is such a preponderance of Genius and Creativity found in the European sphere vs say East Asia or the Middle East?

There are East Asian and Middle Eastern geniuses, you're just far too Eurocentric to have heard of them.

[nisse]

Yup. I'd also say that the extreme collectivism that we now see in China is a relatively recent phenomenon. China has been host to high cultures who've risen and fallen since the 12th century BC. A thousand years ago, they may've been asking why most geniuses were Chinese.
Or not...


There are East Asian and Middle Eastern geniuses, you're just far too Eurocentric to have heard of them.
...The question was about the "majority"...which are European...

To suggest that (Western) Europe did not produce the majority of the technological know-how that got us to today is to not be true to reality, imo. I'm as open minded as anyone, but really don't see how his claim can be contradicted and why so many people are trying to contradict it :ohwell:.

[Northern_Paladin]

There are East Asian and Middle Eastern geniuses, you're just far too Eurocentric to have heard of them.

I said Majority. Perhaps you could list some East Asian and Middle Eastern Geniuses for us to consider?


Asians, starting with the Japanese and then the Chinese and finally Koreans, at least in the US, have become noticeably more original and less slavish in recent years. The extent of this shift strengthens arguments that the old lack of creativity is more cultural (based on an education system that emphasized rote learning) than racial.

Asians are genetically more prone to think inside the box. I have not seen any major contributions of Genius made by Asians to American culture besides Chinese food and Bruce Lee films.

[Psychonaut]

Asians are genetically more prone to think inside the box.

You got some kind of citation for this?


I have not seen any major contributions of Genius made by Asians to American culture besides Chinese food and Bruce Lee films.

If you're talking about Asians, why on Earth would you be looking at contributions to American culture? Asia would be a much better place to investigate if you'd like to know something about their accomplishments.

Also, in case you weren't aware, two of the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoichiro_Nambu) biggest guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku) in String Theory are Japanese Americans.

[Amarantine]

intellect is individual issue, there is no connection with the race

[Lulletje Rozewater]

intellect is individual issue, there is no connection with the race


But does race not consist of similar individuals,who could be similar stupid or similar intelligent.

[Stefan]

But does race not consist of similar individuals,who could be similar stupid or similar intelligent.

I'd say at a social level - yes, a genetic or biological level I wouldn't say there is anything significantly affecting. Otherwise we should assume that this trait would be, for the most part, the case for all individuals of the race disregarding their cultural background. And in that matter it isn't always true. Europe has just exceeded since the end of the Dark Ages, and because of that it is assumed that Europeans are superior in Creativity and thought process, when in reality it is just a passed on cultural trait. Like Psychonaut noted before, a few thousand years ago or even less than that the Chinese, North Africans, and Mesopatamians were probably the density of most civilization, and therefore intelligence. Having said all of this, there may be some genetic influence on intelligence, but I'd think it is an individual trait passed on at the family level opposed to a racial one.

[Lenny]

that Asians have a lesser degree of IQ variation than Europids ... is little more than baseless conjecture, common as it may be among certain circles.
Conjecture, yes. Baseless, no.

Observing Orientals, one naturally comes to this conjecture.

I believe it goes back to observations made by Galton and his associates in the 19th century.

Every people has its own "Volksgeist" - voelkisch spirit. The Orientals' is different from ours very fundamentally. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Take the Chinese. The people we now call "Chinese" were content in feudalism for basically the entirety of the past 4,000 years. Their "high civilizations" were all aristocracies built on the back of a rigid -- almost-cartoonishly-rigid -- feudal social order. The Oriental philosophy of Confucianism is simply the codification of feudal ethics, nothing more. This seems to be the social order that they are genetically inclined to and are happiest in. Compare to the European experience. We had true feudalism for more like 400 years, at most. And we call it our "dark ages"! When we finally got out of it, we call that period the Renaissance, the Rebirth! This pretty clearly points to a very fundamental difference in character. That difference can still easily be observed in modern societies.

Yes, "culture" and social organization is mostly the product of genetic inclinations among the population. A people tend to drift towards the social model to which they are most suited. (And, over time, a "culture" selects for those fit for its system; But not to get bogged down in Chicken-vs-Egg-ism, let's just say genetics tends to correlate with social orders and "cultural traits"). This is why many of the racialist holdouts in the post-1945 West were criticizing the Nixonian Domino-Theory panic-mongering about the dangers of the entirety of the Orient falling to communism. The western racialists, as in Willis Carto and his kind in the USA, aptly stated that authoritarian communism probably was more suited to the Oriental character, so a) what right do we have to impose alien ways on them, and b) Fighting wars like Vietnam and intervening in Cambodia and the like, were doomed to fail, for sure. Orientals tended towards communism because they were genetically inclined to authoritarian collectivism, unlike Europeans. I think Wilmot Robertson argued this explicitly in his delightful little book, The Ethnostate.

If the Orientals have culture(s) that discourage independent thought, discourage critical thinking, discourage creativity, discourage organizational skill, discourage most forms of initiative, discourage the concept of having an eye for inherent quality, and encourage form over substance in grotesque ways... Well, wiping all that away with a culture argument is no different at all from apologists for our racial-African cousins' behavior, past and present and future. "If Africans had a better culture, they would be identical to whites". That statement is the height of fallacy in the most fundamental of ways.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I'd say at a social level - yes, a genetic or biological level I wouldn't say there is anything significantly affecting. Otherwise we should assume that this trait would be, for the most part, the case for all individuals of the race disregarding their cultural background. And in that matter it isn't always true. Europe has just exceeded since the end of the Dark Ages, and because of that it is assumed that Europeans are superior in Creativity and thought process, when in reality it is just a passed on cultural trait. Like Psychonaut noted before, a few thousand years ago or even less than that the Chinese, North Africans, and Mesopatamians were probably the density of most civilization, and therefore intelligence. Having said all of this, there may be some genetic influence on intelligence, but I'd think it is an individual trait passed on at the family level opposed to a racial one.

I came across this:
Intelligence varies with at least 21 factors

Some of the other circumstances and attributes that have been found to vary to a greater or lesser (but always significant) extent in relation with IQ (Bouchard & Segal, 1985; Liungman, 1975) - note that not all of these relationships support an environmental view.
Intelligence varies with:


Infant malnutrition (-ve)
Birth weight
Birth order
Height
Number of siblings (-ve)
Number of years in school
Social group of parental home
Father's profession
Father's economic status
Degree of parental rigidity (-ve)
Parental ambition
Mother's education
Average TV viewing (-ve)
Average book-reading
Self-confidence according to attitude scale measurement
Age (negative relationship, applies only in adulthood)
Degree of authority in parental home (-ve)
Criminality (-ve)
Alcoholism (-ve)
Mental disease (-ve)
Emotional adaptation

"No single environmental factor seems to have a large influence on IQ. Variables widely believed to be important are usually weak....Even though many studies fail to find strong environmental effects....most of the factors studied do influence IQ in the direction predicted by the investigator....environmental effects are multifactorial and largely unrelated to each other."
- Bouchard & Segal (1985), p.452
So, it would appear that there are many psychological and biological factors each contributing a small a small fraction to the variance in IQ scores.

[Lenny]

One high ranking Japanese official recommended bringing in English women to infuse the Japanese with European blood. :D
They already have a certain amount of quasiCaucasoid(?) blood. The Ainu, the people inhabiting the islands before the mongoloid invasions, form some part of the Japanese ancestral stock. Perhaps 15-20% of Japanese genetics comes from them, some of whose women and even men would've been absorbed by the Mongoloid invaders. The Ainu themselves were already somewhat mixed from being a small population living for millennia in the vicinity of the Mongoloid heartland. So the nonMongoloid component in Japanese may be as high as 10%.

The proof is in the pudding. Some Japanese have longer heads and more prominent noses than the typical-Mongoloid very-low-nosed brachycephal (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#BRACHYCEPHALIC); a small number of Japanese naturally have what they call the "double eyelid" (and millions more have it now from surgery); some Japanese men even have browridges. None of these are Mongoloid traits.

See here (http://erectuswalksamongst.us/Chap24.html#Back44).

[Lenny]

The proof is in the pudding. Some Japanese have longer heads and more prominent noses than the typical-Mongoloid very-low-nosed brachycephal (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#BRACHYCEPHALIC); a small number of Japanese naturally have what they call the "double eyelid" (and millions more have it now from surgery); some Japanese men even have browridges. None of these are Mongoloid traits.

A popular "J-Pop" singer (http://images.google.com/images?hl=&q=ken+hirai)

His stage name is Ken Hirai. Often their singers will take Western names as stage names. Born in the early 1970s, apparently he had two Japanese parents. But one or both was of Ainu stock, and, well... You can see the result.

Another less extreme example is Takeshi Kaneshiro (http://images.google.com/images?hl=&q=Takeshi+Kaneshiro). In some of the photos presented by google-images, he could pass for "Eurasian" for sure. But again, 100% Oriental by descent.

Likely Ainu blood. Cosmetic surgery can only go so far.

[Psychonaut]

Some Japanese have longer heads and more prominent noses than the typical-Mongoloid very-low-nosed brachycephal (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#BRACHYCEPHALIC)

It's not just Japan. Nearly all the Chinese folks from Hēilóngjiāng that I've met have been very tall (many of the men surpass six feet) and extremely dolichocephalic:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/China_Heilongjiang.svg/275px-China_Heilongjiang.svg.png

[Stefan]

While the Ainu and some other East Asian groups may look "quasi-caucasoid" this is probably only due to them retaining Proto-Mongoloid traits in the same way Cro-Mangoids retain some Proto-Caucasoid or Europoid traits. Because of this, they diverge phenotypically and genetically from the rest of the Mongoloid stock, but they are still much closer to Mongoloids genetically than Caucasoids regardless of their look. Atlantic Coast Amerindians are another group that retained Proto-Mongoloid traits for example, and that is why they are much easier to breed into Europeans opposed to South and Western Amerindians who are more recent settlers and more progressively different from Caucasoids.

[Óttar]

Probably because we invented the IQ tests.

[Lenny]

While the Ainu and some other East Asian groups may look "quasi-caucasoid" this is probably only due to them retaining Proto-Mongoloid traits in the same way Cro-Mangoids retain some Proto-Caucasoid or Europoid traits. Because of this, they diverge phenotypically and genetically from the rest of the Mongoloid stock, but they are still much closer to Mongoloids genetically than Caucasoids regardless of their look.
They are genetically close because of lots of cross-breeding with Mongoloids over time.

The deep origins of the Ainu are still a mystery. Fuerle speculates they are the descendants of primitive Caucasoids [which evolved in West-Asia] who ventured far to the east long ago and somehow retained group integrity. Peoples from the same parent-stock may have been the seafarers who created the red-haired Easter Island statues.

Japanese nationalists claim that the Ainu are purely protoMongoloid. But that is to be expected.