Eurogenes reveal Fire Haired's not 100% North-west European

[Fire Haired]

I am pretty disappointed with my uncle's Geno 2.0 "Who am I" results and Eurogenes K13, K15, and EEF-WHG-ANE results. What they reveal is that I am definitely not 100% Celto-Germanic-north-west European like I have believed my whole life. I have always known i am mixed but Celto-Germanic-north-west European was one thing i could claim to be 100%, but not anymore. I am also disappointed because I am much less WHG-ANE and much more EEF than I thought. It would be a waste i time to investigate this to seriously, after i make personal distribution maps of K13 and K15 maybe i will make some conclusions. To me it is obvious that I am probably part Native American, Sub Saharan African(African American?), and possible even Oceania.

Please post your interpretations of these results.

Geno 2.0 results

My uncle's results: Mediterranean: 40%, North European: 35%, South West Asian: 15%, Native American: 5%, Sub Saharan African: 3%, Oceanian: 2%.

Reference populations (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/overview-of-regions-and-closest-populations/reference-populations/). If your not a member of Geno 2.0 here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118061-Genetic-Make-up-of-some-European-populations) is a thread with results from Europeans. Note that my uncle is supposedly 100% North-west European. German, English, Scottish, Swiss, Norwegian.

Here are my uncle's K13 results, with top 25 most similar populations.

Eurogenes K13


North_Atlantic 36.98
Baltic 19.28
West_Med 17.29
West_Asian 7.54
East_Med 7.70
Red_Sea 0.51
South_Asian 0.00
East_Asian 0.00
Siberian 1.08
Amerindian 5.11
Oceanian 1.93
Northeast_African 0.01
Sub-Saharan 2.57




Top 25


West_German 9.20479
French 9.57558
South_Dutch 10.3289
Austrian 12.5443
East_German 14.5791
Spanish_Cataluna 15.0185
Portuguese 15.1986
Hungarian 15.2568
Spanish_Galicia 15.2594
Southeast_English 16.0342
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 16.1336
North_German 16.2394
Serbian 16.4177
Spanish_Extremadura 16.7765
Spanish_Murcia 17.2767
Spanish_Cantabria 17.296
Southwest_English 17.4362
Southwest_French 17.5627
Spanish_Valencia 17.617
Orcadian 17.7482
North_Dutch 18.0416
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 18.0788
Danish 18.0949
North_Italian 18.3553
Romanian 18.438

My Uncles K15 results and top 25 most similar populations.

Eurogenes K15

North_Sea 22.70
Atlantic 24.41
Baltic 7.94
Eastern_Euro 9.29
West_Med 12.89
West_Asian 6.05
East_Med 6.94
Red_Sea 0.03
South_Asian 0.00
Southeast_Asian 0.00
Siberian 0.78
Amerindian 4.78
Oceanian 1.75
Northeast_African 0.04
Sub-Saharan 2.40




Top 25


French 9.4414
South_Dutch 10.3745
Spanish_Cataluna 12.9394
West_German 13.2446
Spanish_Galicia 13.3243
Austrian 13.3634
Portuguese 13.504
East_German 14.0503
Serbian 14.2247
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.3297
Spanish_Extremadura 14.626
Spanish_Murcia 14.8803
North_German 15.6234
Southwest_English 15.7738
Hungarian 15.8044
North_Italian 16.1565
Spanish_Cantabria 16.3398
Southeast_English 16.4614
Spanish_Valencia 16.4742
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 17.027
Southwest_French 17.0546
Romanian 17.3351
Spanish_Andalucia 17.6124
Danish 18.1293
Irish 18.4297


Finally, my uncel's EEF-WHG-ANE results.

<tbody>
EEF
55.94439


WHG
30.4383


ANE
13.61731

</tbody>

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I am guessing he's part jewish then, though the SSA is a bit high for that.

Looks like he has some more eastern mix than you would think from pure german, but I'd think you'd know if a ggg grandfather had been black.

Jews are also very high on the EEF component and have a little more red hair than central europeans usually do.

I wouldn't make too much assumption how much HG you have even if you score high on the list of basquelike features such as on this list http://www.aoi.com.au/bcw/neanderbasque.htm

Also, doubt you are native american, that score is pretty typical for native europeans who never came to USA.

[Anglojew]

You probably are a little NA. The rest might be noise.

[Fire Haired]

To me it seems i am likely part Hispanic. If i took the test my results would be much more North-west European like since my Uncle only accounts for half of me.

[Atlantic Islander]

To me it seems i am likely part Hispanic. If i took the test my results would be much more North-west European like since my Uncle only accounts for half of me.

Like part New World Hispanic?

[Argang]

The Oceanian score implies something that's not typical Latino, maybe Hawaiian.

[7eleven]

How did you get the K13 and K15? Gedmatch populations dont seem to be updated yet.

[Shuffle]

Your uncle's K13-result ressembles mine, except not having any amerindian scores and I'm fully South-German, nothing to be disappointed about! ;)

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 39.98
2 Baltic 23
3 West_Med 15.93
4 East_Med 12.16
5 West_Asian 5.09
6 Oceanian 1.28
7 Siberian 1.03
8 South_Asian 0.58
9 Red_Sea 0.58
10 Amerindian 0.2
11 Northeast_African 0.16

I got no amerindian, which is clear and for that I get a little more N-A and Baltic our Med parts seem relatively equal me being less West_Med and West_Asian but more East_Med. I get some Oceanian, too, not much, could be noise or something asian which seems oceanian, since I'm pretty sure that a family from plain Central-Europe can't have any real oceanian ancestry!

[Prince Carlo]

If you replace the Amerindian/Oceanian with East Asian/South Asian, your uncle could be a typical Boer.

[Fire Haired]

How did you get the K13 and K15? Gedmatch populations dont seem to be updated yet.

Sent the raw data to Davidski at Eurogenes.

[Fire Haired]

If you replace the Amerindian/Oceanian with East Asian/South Asian, your uncle could be a typical Boer.

There is no way he is 100% North-west European, and i think he may be part Latino.

[Fire Haired]

Like part New World Hispanic?

yes

[Argang]

There is no way he is 100% North-west European, and i think he may be part Latino.

Your own results would tell you a lot more though.

[Longbowman]

Sorry, what's wrong with K13?

[Fire Haired]

Sorry, what's wrong with K13?

Nothing. The results are constant with Geno 2.0. Davidski said they test a small number of SNP's so there is some noise but these results are pretty accurate. There is obviously some type of southern influence, my best guess is that one of my great great grandparents was Latino, so mainly Spanish but also some native American and West African which can explain why my uncle scored ~5% Native American and ~2% Sub Saharan African in all the tests.

[Longbowman]

Nothing. The results are constant with Geno 2.0. Davidski said they test a small number of SNP's so there is some noise but these results are pretty accurate. There is obviously some type of southern influence, my best guess is that one of my great great grandparents was Latino, so mainly Spanish but also some native American and West African which can explain why my uncle scored ~5% Native American and ~2% Sub Saharan African in all the tests.

Blood uncle? If not you're what, 3.5% non-Caucasoid.

[Jackson]

To me it seems i am likely part Hispanic. If i took the test my results would be much more North-west European like since my Uncle only accounts for half of me.

Could be, NW European + hispanic pulls you towards the French

[Argang]

By the way, Amerindian and Oceanian actually increase WHG and ANE in that excel sheet. You might have a lower score than your uncle.

[Fire Haired]

Blood uncle? If not you're what, 3.5% non-Caucasoid.

Blood uncle. There is a huge amount of ANE in Native Americans, but there was also according to laz 2013 basal Eurasian in early European farmers so my percent of non-west Eurasian ancestry is more complicated.

[Fire Haired]

By the way, Amerindian and Oceanian actually increase WHG and ANE in that excel sheet. You might have a lower score than your uncle.

If you add in my mother's side i defintley will score higher.

[Longbowman]

Blood uncle. There is a huge amount of ANE in Native Americans, but there was also according to laz 2013 basal Eurasian in early European farmers so my percent of non-west Eurasian ancestry is more complicated.

What were your results?

[Fire Haired]

What were your results?

I don't know, it would defintley be more northern since my other 50% is. I really hope there is was no illegitimate child in my family and that southern German, Swiss, and French ancestry are the sources of the southernism. I don't want to be part French(meant to be offensive) i have never liked French people, but having an illegitimate great grandfather is even worse.

[Fire Haired]

Since i know for a fact my uncle is 25% Norwegian i did some math on excel and found what his other 75% should be.

Results:

K13


<tbody>
Population
North_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
Northeast_African
Sub-Saharan


other 75%
32
16.17
19.75
8.1867
9.69
0.5367
-0.14
-0.12
1.2267
6.51
2.523
0.01
3.4

</tbody>


<tbody>
EEF
60.4843


WHG
26.88266


ANE
12.63304

</tbody>


I think i may be finding K13 results of a mystery Latino ancestor. To be even more accurate i would have to take out the 25% German on his maternal side(not sure which regions). In the end i would get nearly identical results to a Latino. The most probable explanation for this is that my uncle is an illegitimate son and his father was Latino. The problem with this is that he looks very similar to his father, and is way above the average height of a Latino. But then where does the high amount of Latino like ancestry come from?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

There is no way he is 100% North-west European, and i think he may be part Latino.

Looking at these responses, I think you just have some false positives. If south german is getting 2.5% SSA then lol the definitions of populations are a bit dodgy. This is just like how many europeans show up with native american ancestry - they are guessing what belongs to who incorrectly.

[Argang]

I don't know, it would defintley be more northern since my other 50% is. I really hope there is was no illegitimate child in my family and that southern German, Swiss, and French ancestry are the sources of the southernism. I don't want to be part French(meant to be offensive) i have never liked French people, but having an illegitimate great grandfather is even worse.

You should get 23andMe for yourself, ancestry composition is good at picking up signals of significance, and that data gives more precise calculator results and can be used in Gedmatch.

Their genomewide similarity tool will also show increased similarity to Nigerian and Japanese references if you have real amerindian and SSA, compared to the fully northwest european Mendel family references.

[Fire Haired]

Looking at these responses, I think you just have some false positives. If south german is getting 2.5% SSA then lol the definitions of populations are a bit dodgy. This is just like how many europeans show up with native american ancestry - they are guessing what belongs to who incorrectly.

I doubt it's all noise and most don't get any Sub Saharan or Native American, the Oceania score for my uncle makes absolutly no sense though.

[Argang]

Some europeans get as much as 1% noise Oceanian on K13, but it doesn't show in 23andMe's ancestry composition. You should really take that test to find out.

If it's real, very distant Hawaiian is probably the most likely source.

[Longbowman]

I doubt it's all noise and most don't get any Sub Saharan or Native American, the Oceania score for my uncle makes absolutly no sense though.

I agree. People dismiss small amounts as noise but that's rarely the case.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I agree. People dismiss small amounts as noise but that's rarely the case.

If his uncle has 2.5% SSA it's impossible for him to have 0%.

For 23andme the results are usually conservative. For these kind of tests there's plenty of false positives.

[Atlantic Islander]

I doubt it's all noise and most don't get any Sub Saharan or Native American, the Oceania score for my uncle makes absolutly no sense though.

You could go to the k13 thread and read through it, look at the results of people who should have a similar background and compare.

[Fire Haired]

You could go to the k13 thread and read through it, look at the results of people who should have a similar background and compare.

Already done that.

[Insuperable]

http://s29.postimg.org/z7j2khto7/nelson_muntz_HA_HA.jpg











Just joking mate:p

[Graham]

What he score on K36? That one is more suited to younger population sets.


Some europeans get as much as 1% noise Oceanian on K13, but it doesn't show in 23andMe's ancestry composition. You should really take that test to find out.

If it's real, very distant Hawaiian is probably the most likely source.

Yes, that includes me. It was that or K15. Can't remember.

[Longbowman]

I always score 0% Oceanian.

[Maleficent]

I am pretty disappointed with my uncle's Geno 2.0 "Who am I" results and Eurogenes K13, K15, and EEF-WHG-ANE results. What they reveal is that I am definitely not 100% Celto-Germanic-north-west European like I have believed my whole life. I have always known i am mixed but Celto-Germanic-north-west European was one thing i could claim to be 100%, but not anymore. I am also disappointed because I am much less WHG-ANE and much more EEF than I thought. It would be a waste i time to investigate this to seriously, after i make personal distribution maps of K13 and K15 maybe i will make some conclusions. To me it is obvious that I am probably part Native American, Sub Saharan African(African American?), and possible even Oceania.

Please post your interpretations of these results.

Geno 2.0 results

My uncle's results: Mediterranean: 40%, North European: 35%, South West Asian: 15%, Native American: 5%, Sub Saharan African: 3%, Oceanian: 2%.

Reference populations (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/overview-of-regions-and-closest-populations/reference-populations/). If your not a member of Geno 2.0 here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118061-Genetic-Make-up-of-some-European-populations) is a thread with results from Europeans. Note that my uncle is supposedly 100% North-west European. German, English, Scottish, Swiss, Norwegian.

Here are my uncle's K13 results, with top 25 most similar populations.

Eurogenes K13

North_Atlantic 36.98
Baltic 19.28
West_Med 17.29
West_Asian 7.54
East_Med 7.70
Red_Sea 0.51
South_Asian 0.00
East_Asian 0.00
Siberian 1.08
Amerindian 5.11
Oceanian 1.93
Northeast_African 0.01
Sub-Saharan 2.57

Top 25

West_German 9.20479
French 9.57558
South_Dutch 10.3289
Austrian 12.5443
East_German 14.5791
Spanish_Cataluna 15.0185
Portuguese 15.1986
Hungarian 15.2568
Spanish_Galicia 15.2594
Southeast_English 16.0342
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 16.1336
North_German 16.2394
Serbian 16.4177
Spanish_Extremadura 16.7765
Spanish_Murcia 17.2767
Spanish_Cantabria 17.296
Southwest_English 17.4362
Southwest_French 17.5627
Spanish_Valencia 17.617
Orcadian 17.7482
North_Dutch 18.0416
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 18.0788
Danish 18.0949
North_Italian 18.3553
Romanian 18.438

My Uncles K15 results and top 25 most similar populations.

Eurogenes K15

North_Sea 22.70
Atlantic 24.41
Baltic 7.94
Eastern_Euro 9.29
West_Med 12.89
West_Asian 6.05
East_Med 6.94
Red_Sea 0.03
South_Asian 0.00
Southeast_Asian 0.00
Siberian 0.78
Amerindian 4.78
Oceanian 1.75
Northeast_African 0.04
Sub-Saharan 2.40

Top 25

French 9.4414
South_Dutch 10.3745
Spanish_Cataluna 12.9394
West_German 13.2446
Spanish_Galicia 13.3243
Austrian 13.3634
Portuguese 13.504
East_German 14.0503
Serbian 14.2247
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.3297
Spanish_Extremadura 14.626
Spanish_Murcia 14.8803
North_German 15.6234
Southwest_English 15.7738
Hungarian 15.8044
North_Italian 16.1565
Spanish_Cantabria 16.3398
Southeast_English 16.4614
Spanish_Valencia 16.4742
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 17.027
Southwest_French 17.0546
Romanian 17.3351
Spanish_Andalucia 17.6124
Danish 18.1293
Irish 18.4297

Finally, my uncel's EEF-WHG-ANE results.

<tbody>
EEF
55.94439


WHG
30.4383


ANE
13.61731

</tbody>If your ancestry is 100% "Colonial-American" then this should not be surprising in the least.

Did you take the test or just your uncle? And is he your maternal or paternal uncle?

[Maleficent]

I am guessing he's part jewish then, though the SSA is a bit high for that.

Looks like he has some more eastern mix than you would think from pure german, but I'd think you'd know if a ggg grandfather had been black.

Jews are also very high on the EEF component and have a little more red hair than central europeans usually do.

I wouldn't make too much assumption how much HG you have even if you score high on the list of basquelike features such as on this list http://www.aoi.com.au/bcw/neanderbasque.htm

Also, doubt you are native american, that score is pretty typical for native europeans who never came to USA.Only for far-northern Scandinavians.:picard2:

[Smeagol]

If your ancestry is 100% "Colonial-American" then this should not be surprising in the least.

No, that's not true, only a minority of Colonial Americans are mixed. The mixture that does exist is almost exclusively in the Deep South, but even there he majority are not mixed. There were strict laws against mixing, and even when it occurred the mulatto would never be considered White.

[Longbowman]

No, that's not true, only a minority of Colonial Americans are mixed. The mixture that does exist is almost exclusively in the Deep South, but even there he majority are not mixed. There were strict laws against mixing, and even when it occurred the mulatto would never be considered White.

Sure, one-drop rule, but in reality if you were 90%+ white, you passed. Like this 27/32 European civil rights leader, who was once attacked for using black-only facilities. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Francis_White)

[Smeagol]

Sure, one-drop rule, but in reality if you were 90%+ white, you passed.

Sometimes, but the majority of Colonial Americans are not mixed.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

If your ancestry is 100% "Colonial-American" then this should not be surprising in the least.

Did you take the test or just your uncle? And is he your maternal or paternal uncle?

Only about 4% of white americans have 1% or more SSA. He is probably part spainish or part jewish. The SSA number is probably exaggerated and oceanian is a 'ghost population' not to be confused with actual oceanian admixture.

[Longbowman]

Only about 4% of white americans have 1% or more SSA. He is probably part spainish or part jewish. The SSA number is probably exaggerated and oceanian is a 'ghost population' not to be confused with actual oceanian admixture.

Too high for 'part Jewish,' even full AJs never hit 2% SSA.

He's just part SSA.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Too high for 'part Jewish,' even full AJs never hit 2% SSA.

He's just part SSA.

I already explained it's obviously exaggerated score. The score you get on this is not the same as you would get on say 23andme. Firehaired got 0% jewish in his own score, that is the reason why.

[Smeagol]

Too high for 'part Jewish,' even full AJs never hit 2% SSA.

He's just part SSA.

Colonial Americans have less SSA than Jews, and even a bit less than Spaniards on average. He probably has a Hispanic (triracial) ancestor.

[Longbowman]

I already explained it's obviously exaggerated score. The score you get on this is not the same as you would get on say 23andme. Firehaired got 0% jewish in his own score, that is the reason why.

Except SSA on GEDmatch doesn't work as it does on 23andme. If you're 100% AJ you'll score 100% AJ but that includes 55% European, 40% MENA, 5% Mongoloid/SSA. But it all comes up as AJ. See? GEDmatch gives a more detailed racial composition.

So his 23andme score may not be relevant here.

Of the ~100 pure AJs on my 23andme, only about 10 had any SSA, most of it <0.1, whereas in reality most AJs will be 1-1.5% SSA.

[Longbowman]

Colonial Americans have less SSA than Jews, and even a bit less than Spaniards on average. He probably has a Hispanic (triracial) ancestor.

Yeah, so he probably has recent SSA, that's what I said.

[Fire Haired]

Yeah, so he probably has recent SSA, that's what I said.


I did a bunch of math on excel with many of my uncle's pre-American ancestors and similar results a mysterious Latino ancestor would have had. If my uncle's results are legit one of his parents, grandparents, or at the very least great grandparents was a full blooded Latino(most like Peurto Rican).

His mother is a ginger(constant gingers going back to Norway) his mother's father claimed to be German and British. My uncle remembers his grandfather very well and said he had no signs of having latino ancestry. I have seen pictures and my uncle is right and the fact he had blue eyes means there is a low chance he was half or 100%(LOL) Latino.

My uncle's father is the spitting image of his grandfather(father's father) and his father's mother claimed to be 100% German and we know at least her mother was. My uncel's grandfather was 6'4 like his great grandfather, so i really doubt he was an illegitimate son and seriously how many latino's(especially over 100 years ago) are above 6'0. The only possible explanation then is my uncle is an illegitimate son of a Latino, but he has the exact same hairy and very strange birthmark as his father. I see no evidence of Latino ancestry either through marriage or illegitimate children.

My uncle should get his 67 STR marker Y DNA results back from FTDNA within maybe 3 weeks, 23 families with our surname are in FTDNA's database. Longbowman I expect to find cousins in England or at least the UK, and it will prove there were no illegitimate sons.

My family is beyond shocked by these results and someone is defintley going to take a test at 23aneme or FTDNA. I think it will prove this is all baloney.

[Fire Haired]

Except SSA on GEDmatch doesn't work as it does on 23andme. If you're 100% AJ you'll score 100% AJ but that includes 55% European, 40% MENA, 5% Mongoloid/SSA. But it all comes up as AJ. See? GEDmatch gives a more detailed racial composition.

So his 23andme score may not be relevant here.

Of the ~100 pure AJs on my 23andme, only about 10 had any SSA, most of it <0.1, whereas in reality most AJs will be 1-1.5% SSA.

If these results are real i have no Jewish ancestry(i was hoping for that to be the answer), the west asian-east med-red sea are too low.

[Fire Haired]

I already explained it's obviously exaggerated score. The score you get on this is not the same as you would get on say 23andme. Firehaired got 0% jewish in his own score, that is the reason why.

Correction: Fire Haired's uncle. When i get K13 results and plug em into WHG-EEF-ANE, i expect to get 100% WHG.

[Longbowman]

I did a bunch of math on excel with many of my uncle's pre-American ancestors and similar results a mysterious Latino ancestor would have had. If my uncle's results are legit one of his parents, grandparents, or at the very least great grandparents was a full blooded Latino(most like Peurto Rican).

His mother is a ginger(constant gingers going back to Norway) his mother's father claimed to be German and British. My uncle remembers his grandfather very well and said he had no signs of having latino ancestry. I have seen pictures and my uncle is right and the fact he had blue eyes means there is a low chance he was half or 100%(LOL) Latino.

My uncle's father is the spitting image of his grandfather(father's father) and his father's mother claimed to be 100% German and we know at least her mother was. My uncel's grandfather was 6'4 like his great grandfather, so i really doubt he was an illegitimate son and seriously how many latino's(especially over 100 years ago) are above 6'0. The only possible explanation then is my uncle is an illegitimate son of a Latino, but he has the exact same hairy and very strange birthmark as his father. I see no evidence of Latino ancestry either through marriage or illegitimate children.

My uncle should get his 67 STR marker Y DNA results back from FTDNA within maybe 3 weeks, 23 families with our surname are in FTDNA's database. Longbowman I expect to find cousins in England or at least the UK, and it will prove there were no illegitimate sons.

My family is beyond shocked by these results and someone is defintley going to take a test at 23aneme or FTDNA. I think it will prove this is all baloney.

Isn't your uncle like 1/32 or 1/16 non-Caucasoid, by these results? You'd only be 1/32 to 1/64. Perfectly feasible.

[Maleficent]

Only about 4% of white americans have 1% or more SSA. He is probably part spainish or part jewish. The SSA number is probably exaggerated and oceanian is a 'ghost population' not to be confused with actual oceanian admixture.

Nothing about his results indicates Spanish(normal amount of West Med for his ancestry) or Jewish(normal amount of East Med, West Asian, and Red Sea for his ancestry). The Oceanian is definitely noise. His elevated SSA and NA does not strike me as noise. This situation is typical White-Colonial-American finding there was a slave and an injun somewhere in the woodpile of their family history upon receiving DNA test results.

[Longbowman]

Nothing about his results indicates Spanish(normal amount of West Med for his ancestry) or Jewish(normal amount of East Med, West Asian, and Red Sea for his ancestry). The Oceanian is definitely noise. His elevated SSA and NA does not strike me as noise. This situation is typical White-Colonial-American finding there was a slave and an injun somewhere in the woodpile of their family history upon receiving DNA test results.

+1. 7%? Come on guys, his uncle was 1/16 non-white. Who cares?

[Smeagol]

This situation is typical White-Colonial-American finding there was a slave and an injun somewhere in the woodpile of their family history upon receiving DNA test results.

Not typical at all. Maybe one of his ancestors was a slave or something, but that's very atypical for Colonial Americans.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Nothing about his results indicates Spanish(normal amount of West Med for his ancestry) or Jewish(normal amount of East Med, West Asian, and Red Sea for his ancestry). The Oceanian is definitely noise. His elevated SSA and NA does not strike me as noise. This situation is typical White-Colonial-American finding there was a slave and an injun somewhere in the woodpile of their family history upon receiving DNA test results.

You're wrong and don't know WTF you are talking about because you don't understand these tests. Read what I said to longbowman.

[Smeagol]

http://www.amren.com/news/2013/11/is-that-white-supremacist-part-black/
http://www.amren.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Chart4.png

Only 5% of White Americans have any black ancestry, and it's usually 2% or less.

[Longbowman]

http://www.amren.com/news/2013/11/is-that-white-supremacist-part-black/
http://www.amren.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Chart4.png

Only 5% of White Americans have any black ancestry, and it's usually 2% or less.

Sure, I'm not denying thus, BUT Firehaired's uncle is one of the 5%.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Sure, I'm not denying thus, BUT Firehaired's uncle is one of the 5%.

Why bother to read anything I say? Their tests are not the same as eurogenes. Firehaired scores 0%.

[Longbowman]

Why bother to read anything I say? Their tests are not the same as eurogenes. Firehaired scores 0%.

Firehead hasn't even had a test! in this thread. As far as I am aware. This is his uncle. What are you even talking about?

[Fire Haired]

Nothing about his results indicates Spanish(normal amount of West Med for his ancestry) or Jewish(normal amount of East Med, West Asian, and Red Sea for his ancestry). The Oceanian is definitely noise. His elevated SSA and NA does not strike me as noise. This situation is typical White-Colonial-American finding there was a slave and an injun somewhere in the woodpile of their family history upon receiving DNA test results.

The results show south-west European, north-west European, native american, Sub Saharan African, and Oceania ancestry. The only possible answer for this is Latino+northwest European.

[Maleficent]

The results show south-west European, north-west European, native american, Sub Saharan African, and Oceania ancestry. The only possible answer for this is Latino+northwest European.

You think you have some ancestry from Latin America....? Is that even in your family tree....?

[Argang]

The results show south-west European, north-west European, native american, Sub Saharan African, and Oceania ancestry. The only possible answer for this is Latino+northwest European.

Dr McDonald will analyze Geno 2 data by the way. Email it to him, tell that it shows Native, SSA and Oceanian and you want him to check that, and he might even put you ahead of the queue.

[Atlantic Islander]

He is probably part spainish or part jewish.

His percentages don't fit with that.

[Atlantic Islander]

Nothing about his results indicates Spanish(normal amount of West Med for his ancestry) or Jewish(normal amount of East Med, West Asian, and Red Sea for his ancestry). The Oceanian is definitely noise. His elevated SSA and NA does not strike me as noise. This situation is typical White-Colonial-American finding there was a slave and an injun somewhere in the woodpile of their family history upon receiving DNA test results.

This.

[Fire Haired]

You think you have some ancestry from Latin America....? Is that even in your family tree....?

No mention at all in my family tree which from what i know only mentions north-west Europe. I did math on excel with reference populations and if my uncle's results are legit his one of his parents, grandparents, or great grandparenst was full blooded Latino(most like Puerto rican). None of his parents, grandparents, or great grandparents had any latino ancestry and there is no evidence of illegitimate children. That is why i think this may not be my uncle's DNA and why i will take my own test at 23andme soon.

[Fire Haired]

Dr McDonald will analyze Geno 2 data by the way. Email it to him, tell that it shows Native, SSA and Oceanian and you want him to check that, and he might even put you ahead of the queue.

Thanks i emailed him at jdmcdona@illinois.edu. I doubt he will find anything differnt than Geno 2.0 and Davidski. I think the DNA may be contaminated or there is another logical explanation. After researching a little bit i realized there is no way these results are real. My results will probably show no signs of Latino ancestry.

[Argang]

Thanks i emailed him at jdmcdona@illinois.edu. I doubt he will find anything differnt than Geno 2.0 and Davidski. I think the DNA may be contaminated or there is another logical explanation. After researching a little bit i realized there is no way these results are real. My results will probably show no signs of Latino ancestry.

Ordering your own 23andMe is probably the best check, because if your uncle's result is real you will get the same stuff (though less) in your ancestry composition, and not just 0,1% on speculative either.

[Longbowman]

Thanks i emailed him at jdmcdona@illinois.edu. I doubt he will find anything differnt than Geno 2.0 and Davidski. I think the DNA may be contaminated or there is another logical explanation. After researching a little bit i realized there is no way these results are real. My results will probably show no signs of Latino ancestry.

Or someone in your family was illegitimate.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

His percentages don't fit with that.

Test is new, you can't compare it to another test. How many times do I need to repeat myself?

[Fire Haired]

Or someone in your family was illegitimate.

Trust me I've thought about that, and i have posted on this blog why that can't be true. I did not mention though that there is liget brown skin in my family, and the side with the brown skin also happens to have darker hair and eyes than all other sides. But still records show no none north-west European ancestry and there is no evidence of recent illegitimate children. I can't find an explanation.


I did a bunch of math on excel with many of my uncle's pre-American ancestors and similar results a mysterious Latino ancestor would have had. If my uncle's results are legit one of his parents, grandparents, or at the very least great grandparents was a full blooded Latino(most like Peurto Rican).

His mother is a ginger(constant gingers going back to Norway) his mother's father claimed to be German and British. My uncle remembers his grandfather very well and said he had no signs of having latino ancestry. I have seen pictures and my uncle is right and the fact he had blue eyes means there is a low chance he was half or 100%(LOL) Latino.

My uncle's father is the spitting image of his grandfather(father's father) and his father's mother claimed to be 100% German and we know at least her mother was. My uncel's grandfather was 6'4 like his great grandfather, so i really doubt he was an illegitimate son and seriously how many latino's(especially over 100 years ago) are above 6'0. The only possible explanation then is my uncle is an illegitimate son of a Latino, but he has the exact same hairy and very strange birthmark as his father. I see no evidence of Latino ancestry either through marriage or illegitimate children.

My uncle should get his 67 STR marker Y DNA results back from FTDNA within maybe 3 weeks, 23 families with our surname are in FTDNA's database. Longbowman I expect to find cousins in England or at least the UK, and it will prove there were no illegitimate sons.

My family is beyond shocked by these results and someone is defintley going to take a test at 23aneme or FTDNA. I think it will prove this is all baloney.

[Fire Haired]

Ordering your own 23andMe is probably the best check, because if your uncle's result is real you will get the same stuff (though less) in your ancestry composition, and not just 0,1% on speculative either.

I really hope the results are not legit. By the way have you seen this new admixture at Eurogenes. It reveals WHG is 33% on average in Sardinians(very close to Stuttgart) and that real WHG-ANE percentages are very close to the componenets in many admixtures called something like north European.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2014/03/ancient-north-eurasian-ane-levels.html

[Longbowman]

Trust me I've thought about that, and i have posted on this blog why that can't be true. I did not mention though that there is liget brown skin in my family, and the side with the brown skin also happens to have darker hair and eyes than all other sides. But still records show no none north-west European ancestry and there is no evidence of recent illegitimate children. I can't find an explanation.

DNA doesn't lie.

[Fire Haired]

DNA doesn't lie.

Well there are no explanations. Imagine if your results seemed to say your part Latino, that's how crazy it is.

[Longbowman]

Well there are no explanations. Imagine if your results seemed to say your part Latino, that's how crazy it is.

I would say 'shoot, I guess my grandmother slept around. She lived in New York, after all.'

And it'd be cool to find stuff like that out.

[Fire Haired]

I would say 'shoot, I guess my grandmother slept around. She lived in New York, after all.'

And it'd be cool to find stuff like that out.

Yeh i am sure my ginger grandparents were half Latino.

Holy shit, a ginger Mexican.
http://www.bellazon.com/main/uploads/monthly_06_2011/post-37737-1307581267.jpg

[Fire Haired]

You know that redhead Mexican probably has close to 0% Native Americana and Sub Saharan African, unlike my Latino ancestor would. Probably 100% Spanish and even in Spain he is 1 in a 100.

[Longbowman]

You know that redhead Mexican probably has close to 0% Native Americana and Sub Saharan African, unlike my Latino ancestor would. Probably 100% Spanish and even in Spain he is 1 in a 100.

If you're 3.5% SSA/Native then you're what, 1/32 native? All your grandparents could be ginger with that amount.

[Fire Haired]

If you're 3.5% SSA/Native then you're what, 1/32 native? All your grandparents could be ginger with that amount.

I have done the math and i know what nations my ancestors came from. One of my great grandparents had to be 100% latino, which simply is not true. Actulley even that wouldn't explain my uncle's results. I think my results will show there is no latino ancstry, because i can't fin an explanation.

[Longbowman]

I have done the math and i know what nations my ancestors came from. One of my great grandparents had to be 100% latino, which simply is not true. Actulley even that wouldn't explain my uncle's results. I think my results will show there is no latino ancstry, because i can't fin an explanation.

I doubt it's latino, just a slave and an indian, like FQ said.

DNA doesn't lie.

[Fire Haired]

I doubt it's latino, just a slave and an indian, like FQ said.

DNA doesn't lie.

That doesn't explain the obvious south-west European. Even Davidski said there is no doubt it's Latino.

[Neanderthal]

I'm disappoint.

[Longbowman]

That doesn't explain the obvious south-west European. Even Davidski said there is no doubt it's Latino.

Oh. Then you're part Latino. Felicidades!

[Neanderthal]

You know that redhead Mexican probably has close to 0% Native Americana and Sub Saharan African, unlike my Latino ancestor would. Probably 100% Spanish and even in Spain he is 1 in a 100.

El 'Español' Alvarez (his brother):

http://blog-imgs-42-origin.fc2.com/a/t/e/atelierhurricane/201009280132409f7.jpg

He looks more 'Latino'.

[Fire Haired]

Oh. Then you're part Latino. Felicidades!

That's what the results say but besides that absolutely no evidence. My results will probably give the answer.

[Longbowman]

That's what the results say but besides that absolutely no evidence. My results will probably give the answer.

DNA is the only evidence that matters.

[Fire Haired]

El 'Español' Alvarez (his brother):

http://blog-imgs-42-origin.fc2.com/a/t/e/atelierhurricane/201009280132409f7.jpg

He looks more 'Latino'.

Sólo unas pocas mutaciones en el hermano pelirroja cambiaron totalmente la pigmentación.

My hands just suddenly typed this, i must be part Spanish.

[Fire Haired]

DNA is the only evidence that matters.

Just wait for my results.

[Neanderthal]

Sólo unas pocas mutaciones en el hermano pelirroja cambiaron totalmente la pigmentación.

My hands just suddenly typed this, i must be part Spanish.

I suspect something like CM genes plus leukemia for Canelo's phenotype, i'm not entirely sure tho. Red heads are not really rare in Mexico, my mother (mild case), two aunts and a cousin are red heads, but he's also very depigmented which is very suspicious.

Edit: I meant leukism* Sorry.

[Fire Haired]

I suspect something like CM genes plus leukemia for Canelo's phenotype, i'm not entirely sure tho. Red heads are not really rare in Mexico, my mother (mild case), two aunts and a cousin are red heads, but he's also very depigmented which is very suspicious.

Edit: I meant leukism* Sorry.

I just think they are plain redheads. Depigmented mutant pride!! I doubt they are very common since they only reach 1-3% in Iberia and less than 1% in the far southern regions.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Trust me I've thought about that, and i have posted on this blog why that can't be true. I did not mention though that there is liget brown skin in my family, and the side with the brown skin also happens to have darker hair and eyes than all other sides. But still records show no none north-west European ancestry and there is no evidence of recent illegitimate children. I can't find an explanation.

Some black irish, are probably actually spanish. People moved back and forth between the two countries.

ANyway, there is no way one of your grandparents is secretly 5% black, and you are irish with red hair. It pretty much has to be the explanation. I went into why the actual percentages they give you don't matter too much. It's all guesses and they vary for each test and each version of the test so 2.5% SSA on this new version might show a lot differently on other tests, in some cases. Some of the results are clearly ghost populations or plain old bad guesses.

[Gauthier]

Yeh i am sure my ginger grandparents were half Latino.

Holy shit, a ginger Mexican.
http://www.bellazon.com/main/uploads/monthly_06_2011/post-37737-1307581267.jpg


Not that common in Mexico, but they will pop-up every once in a while. Some are mestizos.

More Mexican redheads:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3361/o52e.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/o52e.jpg/)
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7223/5jb5.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/5jb5.jpg/)
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1132/image082113.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/image082113.jpg/)
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3296/isaimartinezzepeda.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/isaimartinezzepeda.jpg/)
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9328/72primochapogde.jpg (http://img854.imageshack.us/i/72primochapogde.jpg/)
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8135/image072111.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/image072111.jpg/)
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8157/image042107.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3849/image440025.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/i/image440025.jpg/)
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2628/etryp.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/etryp.jpg/)
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3919/ensenada23.jpg (http://img856.imageshack.us/i/ensenada23.jpg/)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4726/wq77w.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/wq77w.jpg/)
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4990/22927879181bd4585c68.jpg (http://img809.imageshack.us/i/22927879181bd4585c68.jpg/)
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5052/606z.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/606z.jpg/)
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9499/f40a835fd021d1aaa4dc01a.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WRE7F.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jpjTRkpTYhE/TsGF3kqZX4I/AAAAAAAAB-4/v5GcIL_TUXg/4710565962_eb9da07acd_b.jpg
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5953/20509520129914843521230.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fxHbj.jpg
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2255/5y57.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/5y57.jpg/)

[Atlantic Islander]

Test is new, you can't compare it to another test. How many times do I need to repeat myself?

He posted k13.

[Argang]

Those K15 results do suggest some kind of South European influence so Latino may be correct. The North Sea value is on Iberian or Ukrainian level (far below NW Europe) and Atlantic is much lower than Isles average, but higher than North Sea which never happens there.

[Isleño]

To me it seems i am likely part Hispanic. If i took the test my results would be much more North-west European like since my Uncle only accounts for half of me.

Hispanic is not a race. Do you mean one of the triracial type Latin Americans? Because Hispanics can be white and are white too.

See my video on racial groups among the Hispanic groups:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6qQmY7KYwA

[Isleño]

I am pretty disappointed with my uncle's Geno 2.0 "Who am I" results and Eurogenes K13, K15, and EEF-WHG-ANE results. What they reveal is that I am definitely not 100% Celto-Germanic-north-west European like I have believed my whole life. I have always known i am mixed but Celto-Germanic-north-west European was one thing i could claim to be 100%, but not anymore. I am also disappointed because I am much less WHG-ANE and much more EEF than I thought. It would be a waste i time to investigate this to seriously, after i make personal distribution maps of K13 and K15 maybe i will make some conclusions. To me it is obvious that I am probably part Native American, Sub Saharan African(African American?), and possible even Oceania.

Please post your interpretations of these results.

Geno 2.0 results

My uncle's results: Mediterranean: 40%, North European: 35%, South West Asian: 15%, Native American: 5%, Sub Saharan African: 3%, Oceanian: 2%.

Reference populations (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/overview-of-regions-and-closest-populations/reference-populations/). If your not a member of Geno 2.0 here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118061-Genetic-Make-up-of-some-European-populations) is a thread with results from Europeans. Note that my uncle is supposedly 100% North-west European. German, English, Scottish, Swiss, Norwegian.

Here are my uncle's K13 results, with top 25 most similar populations.

Eurogenes K13


North_Atlantic 36.98
Baltic 19.28
West_Med 17.29
West_Asian 7.54
East_Med 7.70
Red_Sea 0.51
South_Asian 0.00
East_Asian 0.00
Siberian 1.08
Amerindian 5.11
Oceanian 1.93
Northeast_African 0.01
Sub-Saharan 2.57




Top 25


West_German 9.20479
French 9.57558
South_Dutch 10.3289
Austrian 12.5443
East_German 14.5791
Spanish_Cataluna 15.0185
Portuguese 15.1986
Hungarian 15.2568
Spanish_Galicia 15.2594
Southeast_English 16.0342
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 16.1336
North_German 16.2394
Serbian 16.4177
Spanish_Extremadura 16.7765
Spanish_Murcia 17.2767
Spanish_Cantabria 17.296
Southwest_English 17.4362
Southwest_French 17.5627
Spanish_Valencia 17.617
Orcadian 17.7482
North_Dutch 18.0416
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 18.0788
Danish 18.0949
North_Italian 18.3553
Romanian 18.438

My Uncles K15 results and top 25 most similar populations.

Eurogenes K15

North_Sea 22.70
Atlantic 24.41
Baltic 7.94
Eastern_Euro 9.29
West_Med 12.89
West_Asian 6.05
East_Med 6.94
Red_Sea 0.03
South_Asian 0.00
Southeast_Asian 0.00
Siberian 0.78
Amerindian 4.78
Oceanian 1.75
Northeast_African 0.04
Sub-Saharan 2.40




Top 25


French 9.4414
South_Dutch 10.3745
Spanish_Cataluna 12.9394
West_German 13.2446
Spanish_Galicia 13.3243
Austrian 13.3634
Portuguese 13.504
East_German 14.0503
Serbian 14.2247
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.3297
Spanish_Extremadura 14.626
Spanish_Murcia 14.8803
North_German 15.6234
Southwest_English 15.7738
Hungarian 15.8044
North_Italian 16.1565
Spanish_Cantabria 16.3398
Southeast_English 16.4614
Spanish_Valencia 16.4742
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 17.027
Southwest_French 17.0546
Romanian 17.3351
Spanish_Andalucia 17.6124
Danish 18.1293
Irish 18.4297


Finally, my uncel's EEF-WHG-ANE results.

<tbody>
EEF
55.94439


WHG
30.4383


ANE
13.61731

</tbody>

Not so white huh? Hmmm. So does this change how you see yourself? I try to explain to people that no race is pure, some are less pure than others, but all are somehow admixed.

If we could test all the whites in the U.S., we'd see many have Native American and black admixture. It seems that Latin Americans are not the only "Americans" with admixture.

[Fire Haired]

Not so white huh? Hmmm. So does this change how you see yourself? I try to explain to people that no race is pure, some are less pure than others, but all are somehow admixed.

If we could test all the whites in the U.S., we'd see many have Native American and black admixture. It seems that Latin Americans are not the only "Americans" with admixture.

It depends how you define race, it's true everyone is admixed in someway but i don't represent Europe. Only a very small percentage of European Americans have any non European ancestry, according to 23andme which tests 100,000's of them. A high percentage of European Americans with native american ancestry would not make sense since many of their ancestors were recent immigrants who never had contact with native Americans. My uncle's results may be proven incorrect after i take a test, because i can't find an explanation.

I have thought my whole life I am 100% north-west European, so of course this is disappointing. If i had always known i was part Latino i would be fine with this.

[Longbowman]

Some black irish, are probably actually spanish. People moved back and forth between the two countries.

ANyway, there is no way one of your grandparents is secretly 5% black, and you are irish with red hair. It pretty much has to be the explanation. I went into why the actual percentages they give you don't matter too much. It's all guesses and they vary for each test and each version of the test so 2.5% SSA on this new version might show a lot differently on other tests, in some cases. Some of the results are clearly ghost populations or plain old bad guesses.

He could easily be 1.25% black. AJs are about that and they have a huge incidence of ginger hair.

The dude's part nonwhite, why have you got such a problem with it?

[Grace O'Malley]

Some black irish, are probably actually spanish. People moved back and forth between the two countries.

ANyway, there is no way one of your grandparents is secretly 5% black, and you are irish with red hair. It pretty much has to be the explanation. I went into why the actual percentages they give you don't matter too much. It's all guesses and they vary for each test and each version of the test so 2.5% SSA on this new version might show a lot differently on other tests, in some cases. Some of the results are clearly ghost populations or plain old bad guesses.

The Irish don't show any Spanish ancestry. I know you think clustering doesn't mean anything but the Irish cluster more north of the English so where does the Spanish ancestry show? Is 23andMe the best place to get your dna tested? I want to get a dna test done and I'll show you the results of a 100% Irish colleen.:)

Fire Haired's family has most likely been in the US a long time so a lot of people aren't always sure of all their ancestry and dna tests often can reveal some surprises.

[Longbowman]

The Irish don't show any Spanish ancestry. I know you think clustering doesn't mean anything but the Irish cluster more north of the English so where does the Spanish ancestry show? Is 23andMe the best place to get your dna tested? I want to get a dna test done and I'll show you the results of a 100% Irish colleen.:)

Fire Haired's family has most likely been in the US a long time so a lot of people aren't always sure of all their ancestry and dna tests often can reveal some surprises.

23andme is empirically the best commercially available test, it costs the least and checks the most SNPs.

[Isleño]

It depends how you define race, it's true everyone is admixed in someway but i don't represent Europe. Only a very small percentage of European Americans have any non European ancestry, according to 23andme which tests 100,000's of them. A high percentage of European Americans with native american ancestry would not make sense since many of their ancestors were recent immigrants who never had contact with native Americans. My uncle's results may be proven incorrect after i take a test, because i can't find an explanation.

I have thought my whole life I am 100% north-west European, so of course this is disappointing. If i had always known i was part Latino i would be fine with this.

But still, many white Americans do have ancestry from old stock in the United States. Sure, there are many that have recent stock, but just as many white Americans are mixed with different Euro ethnicities, many of the ones of recent stock have these old stock admixtures. But what do you expect from a country that has had a past that has largely involved two other races of people besides Europeans, including being a land full of one of those other races?

And I have a larger view of "white" than what most white Americans see as white. My views are more in line with Latin America's views: Europeans, Mediterranean North Africans, Levantines and those with non-significant mongoloid and Negroid admixture such as a few percent. It's not like you can DNA test the entire population and go by biology, so we usually go by phenotype. And since the majority of the population are not phenotype scholars like many of us here, they usually just see if a person looks Euro or Sub-Saharan or Native American or something. So if you look "white" then you are white.

Stupid race based laws of the past in the United States such as the "one drop rule" are retarded and never had any scientific backing for such a ridiculous thing. Lol, according to that old law and your test results, you would have been considered a Negro. But since it's outdated, invalid and just plain stupidity to keep the white American population "pure" (no such thing exists) you don't have any worries, I think you would still be seen as a white American.

Oh, and about being mixed with "Latino", I know what you meant, but actually Latino is not a race, so no one can be "mixed with Latino". I assumed you meant "mestizo" which is the race/phenotype that most Americans equate to "Latino" (which is stupid considering Latins are white Europeans and half the Latin American population is white), but it comes from the surge of illegal immigration of mestizos into the U.S., so that's what they see coming from "Latin" America, hence the correlation.

[Argang]

23andme is empirically the best commercially available test, it costs the least and checks the most SNPs.



SNP count for 23andMe's v3 chip which was dropped late last year was higher than chips used by competing businesses had, but FtDNA has more SNP's than 23andMe v4.

23andMe has a better ancestry composition and tests haplogroups so it's still a better package deal.

[Isleño]

The Irish don't show any Spanish ancestry. I know you think clustering doesn't mean anything but the Irish cluster more north of the English so where does the Spanish ancestry show? Is 23andMe the best place to get your dna tested? I want to get a dna test done and I'll show you the results of a 100% Irish colleen.:)

Fire Haired's family has most likely been in the US a long time so a lot of people aren't always sure of all their ancestry and dna tests often can reveal some surprises.

Many of the Irish have ancestry from the Paleolithic Iberians that migrated up to the British Isles after the last Ice Age. Of course they have evolved in the British Isles climate, but we do know this to be true of the migration. Of course many of the British Isles have this lineage with mixtures from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlers. The westernmost fringes of the British Isles is where the Paleolithic Iberian strain is strongest.

Irish clustering with English can come from several factors. Such as evolution of the Paleolithic Iberian strain in the northern hemisphere and also admixture from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlement.

[Longbowman]

Many of the Irish have ancestry from the Paleolithic Iberians that migrated up to the British Isles after the last Ice Age. Of course they have evolved in the British Isles climate, but we do know this to be true of the migration. Of course many of the British Isles have this lineage with mixtures from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlers. The westernmost fringes of the British Isles is where the Paleolithic Iberian strain is strongest.

Irish clustering with English can come from several factors. Such as evolution of the Paleolithic Iberian strain in the northern hemisphere and also admixture from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlement.

The Iberian strain is very weak. It was pretty much undone by Indo-European migrations.

[Argang]

Many of the Irish have ancestry from the Paleolithic Iberians that migrated up to the British Isles after the last Ice Age. Of course they have evolved in the British Isles climate, but we do know this to be true of the migration. Of course many of the British Isles have this lineage with mixtures from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlers. The westernmost fringes of the British Isles is where the Paleolithic Iberian strain is strongest.

Irish clustering with English can come from several factors. Such as evolution of the Paleolithic Iberian strain in the northern hemisphere and also admixture from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlement.

Irish cluster a bit to the north of most English, with Scots and Orcadians. They are also more "northern" than West Germans and South Dutch, and even more so when compared to French or anything more southern. If their northernness was the result of recent germanic admixture, one would expect the more "purely" germanic English (Y-dna and population history) would be even more northern.
They do have neolithic farmer ancestry and mesolithic hunter-gatherer ancestry shared with Iberians, but so do all other Europeans.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The Iberian strain is very weak. It was pretty much undone by Indo-European migrations.

Basque language is related to iberian language and spain was not IE when romans came to it, so we absolutely know that's not true.

If r1b came to iberia in some impossible fantasy scenario then it was not as indo europeans.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

He could easily be 1.25% black. AJs are about that and they have a huge incidence of ginger hair.

The dude's part nonwhite, why have you got such a problem with it?

I have a problem with it because it's simply not true, not for ideological reasons. If you are 5-10% black then it's not enough that even a hardcore racist would be concerned anyway, but that just isn't reality. Jews have about a percent on average because of thousands of years ago the jewish captivity, but it's very uncommon in US and the rest of his numbers don't go with that. It simply didn't happen.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Many of the Irish have ancestry from the Paleolithic Iberians that migrated up to the British Isles after the last Ice Age.


Exactly, and in other times. Saying irish are same as english is utter retardation that is not true on any level. Different haplogroups, different autosomals, different phenotypes.



Of course they have evolved in the British Isles climate, but we do know this to be true of the migration. Of course many of the British Isles have this lineage with mixtures from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlers. The westernmost fringes of the British Isles is where the Paleolithic Iberian strain is strongest.

Irish clustering with English can come from several factors. Such as evolution of the Paleolithic Iberian strain in the northern hemisphere and also admixture from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlement.

First off they don't cluster exactly, no one does. Second, everyone clusters a little to their neighbors, but it's meaningless. Third, Ireland is full of english and scottish, there are more of them in ireland than there are prewar irish. Fourth, the rest of ireland shows 1000 years separation from irish travelers! So every part of this is UNTRUE.

[Grace O'Malley]

Irish cluster a bit to the north of most English, with Scots and Orcadians. They are also more "northern" than West Germans and South Dutch, and even more so when compared to French or anything more southern. If their northernness was the result of recent germanic admixture, one would expect the more "purely" germanic English (Y-dna and population history) would be even more northern.
They do have neolithic farmer ancestry and mesolithic hunter-gatherer ancestry shared with Iberians, but so do all other Europeans.

The Irish also show reduced diversity along with the Scots than the English showing that they have had less recent continental input than the English. The Irish have had less Germanic input than English yet they cluster a bit more north than them. It is just in the last few years that I have learned a bit more about genetics and I was a bit baffled by the Irish clustering with Britain and the rest of Northern Europe if they had a supposedly more Basque input. It just didn't make sense if you knew Irish history because I knew that despite being controlled by Britain and the Viking invasion that many Irish remained separated and kept to their Gaelic ways. The position of the Irish on dna clustering cannot be explained by any Germanic input and it definitely doesn't make sense if there was any Southern European input into Ireland. If Irish have more Basque dna they would cluster closer to that population and not more north of the English.

[Longbowman]

I have a problem with it because it's simply not true, not for ideological reasons. If you are 5-10% black then it's not enough that even a hardcore racist would be concerned anyway, but that just isn't reality. Jews have about a percent on average because of thousands of years ago the jewish captivity, but it's very uncommon in US and the rest of his numbers don't go with that. It simply didn't happen.

This is ridiculous. Genetics says he's part black so he's part black. Obviously it's not common but it's not unheard of.

[Longbowman]

Basque language is related to iberian language and spain was not IE when romans came to it, so we absolutely know that's not true.

If r1b came to iberia in some impossible fantasy scenario then it was not as indo europeans.

What? I said that the Iberian migration to Britain - 10,000 years ago - predates the IE migrations and the later IE migrations - 3,000 years ago - wiped out most indigenous haplogroups leading to R1b levels of 90%+ in Northern Ireland, for instance.

[Grace O'Malley]

Exactly, and in other times. Saying irish are same as english is utter retardation that is not true on any level. Different haplogroups, different autosomals, different phenotypes.



First off they don't cluster exactly, no one does. Second, everyone clusters a little to their neighbors, but it's meaningless. Third, Ireland is full of english and scottish, there are more of them in ireland than there are prewar irish. Fourth, the rest of ireland shows 1000 years separation from irish travelers! So every part of this is UNTRUE.

Melonhead you are talking utter shite and not using any logic at all. If you cluster with someone it is because your dna is the same. Of course most neighbouring populations are similar they usually have similar histories and migrations. Do you think that the original English were completely wiped out by a Germanic invasion? Also R1b-L21 is common is most of the British Isles. The east coast has more of the Germanic type of R1b.

The English have more input from the Anglo-Saxons and other continental populations but their core population is the same as the rest of the Isles.

[Grace O'Malley]

Many of the Irish have ancestry from the Paleolithic Iberians that migrated up to the British Isles after the last Ice Age. Of course they have evolved in the British Isles climate, but we do know this to be true of the migration. Of course many of the British Isles have this lineage with mixtures from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlers. The westernmost fringes of the British Isles is where the Paleolithic Iberian strain is strongest.

Irish clustering with English can come from several factors. Such as evolution of the Paleolithic Iberian strain in the northern hemisphere and also admixture from Scandinavian and Germanic/Celtic settlement.

I think most Irish would quite like to be related to Spanish and a lot of Irish still discuss the Basque connection. There was a recent program on genetics called The Blood of the Irish which said that a lot of Irish were descendants of Basque fishermen but this is based on the old R1b information before anyone knew about the different subclades. Up to date genetic information does not support this theory at all. Also autosomal genetics shows the Irish do not have a particularly close genetic relationship with the Basque or Spanish. A lot of Irish are still not letting go of the Basque connection though. The Irish have always believed they have a descent from the Spanish. Irish legend says that the Irish were Milesians and descend from Míl Espáine. Genetics doesn't seem to bear this out though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%ADl_Esp%C3%A1ine

[Prisoner Of Ice]

This is ridiculous. Genetics says he's part black so he's part black. Obviously it's not common but it's not unheard of.

It's not ridiculous. You don't get early european farmer content from being mixed with an african negro, son.

I already explained everything, it's you guys who don't get it.

[Longbowman]

It's not ridiculous. You don't get early european farmer content from being mixed with an african negro, son.

I already explained everything, it's you guys who don't get it.

Natch but I'm not saying he's 100% black, if he were he'd know it.

Nothing in his DNA precludes him from being 1/32 black. In fact it says he is.

[Graham]

btw this is how your uncle compares in North West European.
Eurogenes K13 N Atlantic56.18% Graham Dad
54.95% Jägerstaffel
54.84% Graham
54.03% Albannach
52.73% sonofthedutch
52.56% FaerieQueene Mum
52.07% Stanley Sister
51.10% Rochefaton
51.08% Graham Mum
50.34% Dreger Mum
49.13% Patches
48.81% Sea Warrior
48.71% SGC Gran
47.88% Herr Hesselink
47.56% Robert
47.17% Stanley
46.78% OneEye
44.87% Herr Hesselink Mum
41.81% Armatus
41.09% Gold Fenix
40.84% Mazik
40.19% Ibericus
40.07% sgc2009
40.05% Atlantic Islander
39.63% Azores
38.48% Alex Delarge
37.20% Jaxman
36.98% Fire Haired Uncle
35.87% DanielJ1eH
34.35% Noricum
29.05% paksaltopam
26.34% FaerieQueene
24.65% HellLander87 Uncle
22.94% member
22.00% Mark
21.45% HellLander87
20.07% paschalisb
17.56% Longbowman
16.58% TheBeast-Martinv
Eurogenes K15 Atlantic + North Sea 72.64% Graham Dad
71.70% Graham
68.42% Albannach
67.31% sonofthedutch
67.00% Graham Mum
66.05% Stanley Sister
64.96% Rochefaton
64.79% Dreger Mum
64.40% Patches
64.13% SGC Gran
63.58% Sea Warrior
62.88% Robert
62.51% Herr Hesselink
61.40% OneEye
61.02% Stanley
60.31% FaerieQueene Mum
59.59% Jägerstaffel
59.07% Jackson
58.45% Herr Hesselink Mum
53.96% Armatus
53.90% sgc2009
51.95% Azores
51.69% Atlantic Islander
51.68% Gold Fenix
51.53% Jaxman
50.41% Mazik
50.41% Ibericus
48.38% Alex Delarge
47.11% Fire Haired Uncle
45.06% DanielJ1eH
44.52% Noricum
36.11% paksaltopam
34.78% FaerieQueene
32.32% HellLander87
30.72% member
28.13% HellLander87
26.32% paschalisb
24.20% Longbowman
24.00% Mark
11.31% TheBeast-Martinv

[Prisoner Of Ice]

btw this is how your uncle compares for North Atlantic to other users.

56.18% Graham Dad
54.95% Jägerstaffel
54.84% Graham
54.03% Albannach
52.73% sonofthedutch
52.56% FaerieQueene
52.07% Stanley Sister
51.10% Rochefaton
51.08% Graham Mum
50.34% Dreger Mum
49.13% Patches
48.81% Sea Warrior
48.71% SGC Gran
47.88% Herr Hesselink
47.56% Robert
47.17% Stanley
46.78% OneEye
45.30% Robert
44.87% Herr Hesselink Mum
41.81% Armatus
41.09% Gold Fenix
40.84% Mazik
40.19% Ibericus
40.07% sgc2009
40.05% Atlantic Islander
39.63% Azores
38.48% Alex Delarge
37.20% Jaxman
36.98% Fire Haired Uncle
35.87% DanielJ1eH
34.35% Noricum
29.05% paksaltopam
26.34% FaerieQueene
24.65% HellLander87 Uncle
22.94% member
22.00% Mark
21.45% HellLander87
20.07% paschalisb
17.56% Longbowman
16.58% TheBeast-Martinv

Survey says, southern european ancestry. Oh look he's right next to Jaxman, too.

[Longbowman]

Survey says, southern european ancestry.

Or mixed race.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Or mixed race.

southern european is mixed race.

[Fire Haired]

southern european is mixed race.

If southern European(which type) is mixed race almost everyone is. If i am part Latino, it's vast majority Spanish with some native american and Sub Saharan African.

[Tropico]

Welcome to the Mongrel Brotherhood.

[Atlantic Islander]

If southern European(which type) is mixed race almost everyone is. If i am part Latino, it's vast majority Spanish with some native american and Sub Saharan African.

Maybe you were right about Puerto Rican ancestry or some similar Latin American ancestry.

[Fire Haired]

Welcome to the Mongrel Brotherhood.

Cosmic race power!!!!!!

[Atlantic Islander]

southern european is mixed race.

All Europeans are.

[Tropico]

Cosmic race power!!!!!!

:high5

[Prisoner Of Ice]

If southern European(which type) is mixed race almost everyone is. If i am part Latino, it's vast majority Spanish with some native american and Sub Saharan African.

Maybe it's an african negro or a somali pirate, or a banglashi or pashtun!

:lol:

Jesus fuck, man. Anything but what I suggest basically.

I explained every part of this in detail already. The native american doesn't mean anything, and I'd expect it higher on this test if you are really mixed with american hispanic ancestry. The level of african being 2.5% on this test doesn't mean much either. He doesn't necessarily have any of either, and number might show differently than what people expect (too high in this case).

African is not nearly high enough to be a typical puerto rican or cuban, though. It's either someone from spain, a sephardic jew, or someone from a country like mexico who is close to wholly spanish/sephardic.

[Tropico]

Cosmic race power!!!!!!


Maybe it's an african negro or a somali pirate, or a banglashi or pashtun!

:lol:

Jesus fuck, man. Anything but what I suggest basically.

I explained every part of this in detail already. The native american doesn't mean anything, and I'd expect it higher on this test if you are really mixed with american hispanic ancestry. The level of african being 2.5% on this test doesn't mean much either. He doesn't necessarily have any of either, and number might show differently than what people expect (too high in this case).

African is not nearly high enough to be a typical puerto rican or cuban, though. It's either someone from spain, a sephardic jew, or someone from a country like mexico who is close to wholly spanish/sephardic.

Idiot. Lol "Typical" Puerto Rican or Cuban. Little White Supremacist without a Bio degree speaking without knowing.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

All Europeans are.

Really? I thought that he had a negro ancestor, a pashtun one, and a native american great grandmother. You cracked the code!!!

[Atlantic Islander]

Really? I thought that he had a negro ancestor, a pashtun one, and a native american great grandmother. You cracked the code!!!

You're acting like those in-denial Appalachians.

[Fire Haired]

Maybe it's an african negro or a somali pirate, or a banglashi or pashtun!

:lol:

Jesus fuck, man. Anything but what I suggest basically.

I explained every part of this in detail already. The native american doesn't mean anything, and I'd expect it higher on this test if you are really mixed with american hispanic ancestry. The level of african being 2.5% on this test doesn't mean much either. He doesn't necessarily have any of either, and number might show differently than what people expect (too high in this case).

African is not nearly high enough to be a typical puerto rican or cuban, though. It's either someone from spain, a sephardic jew, or someone from a country like mexico who is close to wholly spanish/sephardic.

Your reasoning makes no sense at all. I have been doing math with this stuff on excel, and a 75% west german and 25% Peurto Rican would have nearly identical results to my uncle. If these results are legit Latino is the only answer. There is obvious north west and south west European ancestry plus some native american and Sub Saharan African, the only possible answer could be north-west European and Latino ancestry. Even Davidski at Eurogenes said Latino ancestry is the only explanation. I can't find any sources in my family, trust me i have considered all possibilities and the possible illegitimate children, still no answers. This mystery will probably be solved once i take a test at 23aneme.

[Neanderthal]

23andme is bullshit pseudo-science anyway.

Phenotype > Genetics.

[Atlantic Islander]

23andme is bullshit pseudo-science anyway.

Phenotype > Genetics.

Strike that, reverse it.

[Fire Haired]

23andme is bullshit pseudo-science anyway.

Phenotype > Genetics.

It's still real DNA results, i can take the data and put it into GEDmatch.

[Neanderthal]

It's still real DNA results, i can take the data and put into GEDmatch.

If we didn't had 'genetic tech' would you ever realize you're part Latino solely by phenotype? Probably not, right? What's worth being 100% European if you look like some random Arab or a Mestizo Latino? Phenotype is much more important in the real world.

[Fire Haired]

If we didn't had 'genetic tech' would you ever realize you're part Latino solely by phenotype? Probably not, right? What's worth being 100% European if you look like some random Arab or a Mestizo Latino? Phenotype is much more important in the real world.

That's true because people can see DNA, they can only make guesses based on phenotype.

[Argang]

It has to be admitted that there are no genetics that can create the Michael Jacksonoid phenotype.

[Fire Haired]

It has to be admitted that there are no genetics that can create the Michael Jacksonoid phenotype.

That phenotype was man mad.

[Fire Haired]

Argang your Ethnicity description reminded me of a new admixtures made by Davidski at Eurogenes. It seems in northern Europe hunter gatherer(WHG+ANE) ancestry is majority, in Iberia it's close to 50% and in Sardinia(practiculley Neolithic Europeans) it's ~33%. EEF is majority almost everywhere in Europe probably because it harbors so much WHG.

http://bga101.blogspot.com/2014/03/updated-eurogenes-k13-population.html

[Graham]

Your Uncle?

http://img3.photographersdirect.com/img/15588/wm/pd3016112.jpg

[Fire Haired]

Your Uncle?

http://img3.photographersdirect.com/img/15588/wm/pd3016112.jpg

ha ha. There is actulley no evidence of Latino ancestry in my family. One of my uncle's grandparents had to be a full blooded puerto Rican to explain his results. His mom's parents were as typical north-west European looking as you could imagine, no signs at all of Latino ancestry. His dad's parents defintley did not look like peurto ricans but they could maybe pass has 50%. His grandfather was about 6'4 like his great grandfather, so i really doubt he was an illegitimate child. His grandmother's father was kind of wild he was all over the place and our family knows nothing about him since he left her when she was a year old. The only possible place the Latino ancestry can come from in my opinon is my uncle's great grandfather. Supposoble he was German like my uncle's great grandmother but the records just show he was white and had a surname from the UK. Even if my uncle's great grandmother was an illigtmate child(so 50% Latino) that would not explain his results.

My 23andme results might come out as 100% north-west European.

[Fire Haired]

Grahm, that latino has obvisouly has much more native american ancestry than my mysterious Latino ancestor would. If i do have one he would probably look something like this.

http://bronxink.org/files/2010/09/Nando-Hernandez-2.jpg

[Graham]

I was just joking, but you could compare him to an ex-member of this forum called La Bombe, from Las vegas. I might have her on 23andme. Looking at her she looks very Celtic Irish, with red hair. But has some small Latino ancestry with a Spanish surname.

Will have a look, & post her results, if I find them.

[Fire Haired]

I was just joking, but you could compare him to an ex-member of this forum called La Bombe, from Las vegas. I might have her on 23andme. Looking at her she looks very Celtic Irish, with red hair. But has some small Latino ancestry with a Spanish surname.

Will have a look, & post her results, if I find them.

Her north-west European genes i guess were much more numerous than Spanish, native american, and west African, thats why she has red hair. Of course it is possible i have something like 12.5% or 6.25% Puerto Rican ancestry, but the strange thing is all of my grandparents and great grandparents also look like typical white people. I doubt that is true for La Bombe.