Mongoloid Y-DNA N in Finns and north Russians HAPLOGROUP AND ADMIXTURE COMPARISON

[ButlerKing]

http://genetiker.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/mongoloid-admixture-in-russians/


"The Mongoloid Y haplogroup that is present in Russians is N. The three populations with the highest frequencies of haplogroup N are the Nenets (97.3%), the Nganasans (92.1%), and the Yakuts (88.4%). The Nganasans have the largest amount of the Tungid autosomal component in the globe13 analysis (88.5%), and the Yakuts have the third largest amount (81.3%). The Sinid component is completely absent in the Nganasans. The Nenets and the Nganasans both speak Uralic languages. In the Finns, who also speak a Uralic language, the frequency of haplogroup N is 63.2%. The frequency of N in Northern Russians is 41.3%. In other Russians the frequency of N is between 16% and 18%. "

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" But the HGDP Russian sample, which is from the Vologda region, has 6.7% of the Tungid component and none of the Sinid component. The Behar Russian sample has 3% of the Tungid component and 0.9% of the Sinid component, and the Dodecad Russian sample has 2.6% of Tungid component and 0.3% of the Sinid component. The Sinid component in these two samples may be from Mongol admixture. But the Tungid to Sinid ratio is 3.33 in the Behar sample and 8.67 in the Dodecad sample. These ratios are much higher than the 0.59 Tungid to Sinid ratio in the HGDP Mongol sample and the 1.70 ratio in the Rasmussen sample. "

The average maybe 6.7% but most are between 7 -14% and they have high frequencies of N

http://i45.tinypic.com/f2j3ip.jpg



EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS

Irina Morozova, Alexey Evsyukov, Andrey Kon'kov, Alexandra Grosheva, Olga Zhukova, and Sergey Rychkov. "Russian ethnic history inferred from mitochondrial DNA diversity." American Journal of Physical Anthropology. First published online on

December 20, 2011. Previous studies showed that Northern Russians genetically differ from Southern Russians. This study confirms that, showing that Northern Russians (but not Southern Russians) significantly intermarried with Finno-Ugric peoples, while Southern Russians (but not Northern Russians) intermarried with Germanic peoples. Russians were also found to be genetically tied to other Slavs and to Baltic peoples and to a lesser degree to Iranian and Turkic peoples. Excerpts from the Abstract:

[ButlerKing]

The average Finns have 9.3 Mongoloid in their autosomal DNA

http://s22.postimg.org/5f5lqifo1/admix.png


Racially north Russians are Uralic/Finnic people. Their mongoloid admixture are also impressively significants for europeans even though they speak slavic

[ButlerKing]

This is absolute proof that haplogroup N was originally Mongoloid because even in the North Russian with high N show such frequencies.

Also let's look at autosomal DNA of Ngannasans


http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/NganasansY_DNA.gif

15 testes samples




10 samples are = 100% pure Mongoloid /Siberian


1 Sample = 100% Mongoloid with different Siberian admixture ( Tungid, Chucki, Paleo-siberian)


2 sample = a mixture of different Mongoloid Siberian groups with small Caucasoid admixture


2 Sample = a mixture of different Mongoloid siberian groups with 36% Caucasoid admixture.



Nganassan are pure Siberian Mongoloid, there is another study that gives them 5% R1a and 14% Caucasoid maternal DNA but that's it

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UOHFTxL-bOA/TNuv_CPi9dI/AAAAAAAAALg/lG2CsRO8cso/s400/Nganassan.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Look at Yakuts autosomal DNA despite having 9.7% Western Eurasian mtDNA and 2.7% R1b, 2.7% R1a, 2.7% I

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/SakhaY_DNA.gif


Almost all samples are pure Northeast Asians

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8499/yakut10.png

[Äijä]

Good thing that North Russians are confirmed as a lost tribe, we are coming to free them soon.

[ButlerKing]

Good thing that North Russians are confirmed as a lost tribe, we are coming to free them soon.

They were slavicized Finns

[Äijä]

They were slavicized Finns

Yes and the Siberian component is from the Saami, they stretched from Norway to Perm, Finns colonized the area from the south and did not have it before.

[Äijä]

Why dont you tell that Norwegians and Swedes that mixed with Saami have the same component?

[ButlerKing]

Yes and the Siberian component is from the Saami, they stretched from Norway to Perm, Finns colonized the area from the south and did not have it before.

Actually I think they weren't entirely slavicized. Volgoda Russians seems to have 18% R1a and Saami have only 4.5%.

But North Russia was clearly a originally Uralic/Finnic area before slavs. It properly wasn't Saami but some other Uralic tribes

[ButlerKing]

Why dont you tell that Norwegians and Swedes that mixed with Saami have the same component?

They have only 7.5% N

They may not have mixed with Saami as I originally through

[Matt5898]

Funny to watch how people discuss Vologda and Russian North with absolute ignorance of the subject, relying only on tables with percents

[ButlerKing]

Funny to watch how people discuss Vologda and Russian North with absolute ignorance of the subject, relying only on tables with percents

Tables, charts, links.

You absolutely cannot deny

[Äijä]

Funny to watch how people discuss Vologda and Russian North with absolute ignorance of the subject, relying only on tables with percents

Everyone knows the place was totally Finnic before.

[Äijä]

Actually I think they weren't entirely slavicized. Volgoda Russians seems to have 18% R1a and Saami have only 4.5%.

But North Russia was clearly a originally Uralic/Finnic area before slavs. It properly wasn't Saami but some other Uralic tribes

What is that you dont understand, they where not Saami up there but mixed, there are Finnish toponyms in North Russia.

Saami and Finnish are not even close as languages, do you understand this?

[Äijä]

They have only 7.5% N

They may not have mixed with Saami as I originally through


Three Y chromosome haplogroups dominate the distribution among the Sami: N1c (formerly N3a), I1 and R1a. The most common haplogroup among the Sami is N1c, with I1 as a close second. Haplogroup R1a in Sami is mostly seen in the Swedish Sami and Kola Sami populations, with a low level among the Finnish Sami. Tambets and colleagues suggested that N1c and R1a probably reached Fennoscandia from eastern Europe, where these haplogroups can be found in high frequencies.[3]
However the two haplogroups have a distinctly different linguistic distribution. R1a1a is common among Eastern Europeans speaking Indo-European languages, while N1c correlates closely with the distribution of the Finno Ugrian languages. For example N1c is common among the Finns, while haplogroup R1a is common among all the neighbours of the Sami.[8] Haplogroup I1 is the most common haplogroup in Sweden, and the Jokkmokk Sami in Sweden have similar structure as among Swedes and Finns for haplogroup I1 and N1c.[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_genetics_of_the_Sami#Y-DNA


Back to school for you, you have a fixation for your N1c.

[ButlerKing]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_genetics_of_the_Sami#Y-DNA


Back to school for you, you have a fixation for your N1c.

What a bullshit study

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_genetics_of_the_Sami

Haplogroup R1a in Sami is mostly seen in the Swedish Sami and Kola Sami populations, with a low level among the Finnish Sami. Tambets and colleagues suggested that N1c and R1a probably reached Fennoscandia from eastern Europe, where these haplogroups can be found in high frequencies.[3]

[Äijä]

A fur trapper comes up north, he takes a local Saami woman as her bride, they have a son.

What is so difficult with this to understand I do not know.

[ButlerKing]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_genetics_of_the_Sami#Y-DNA


Back to school for you, you have a fixation for your N1c.

What's important to you is Finnic saami no?

! Finnish Saami have only 4.5% of R1a, but Swedish Saami have 20% and Kola Saami 21.7%. Swedish average is 17%.

[Argang]

Funny to watch how people discuss Vologda and Russian North with absolute ignorance of the subject, relying only on tables with percents

There is genetic ignorance too. Northern Russians do not cluster with Finns or between Finns and Slavs in Europeans comparisons to East Asians, Amerindians and Siberians. They are, actually, very similar to Mordovians like Erzya though. There might be some nationalists who want to lay claim to Urals or North Russia and exaggarate genetic ties. ;)

Saamis have little to do with anyone.

http://fennoscandia.blogspot.no/2014/02/europeans-and-native-americans.html

https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/PCAD2D3-130214.png

If we zoom on the European panel we see as expected that especially Saamis, Mordovians and Vologda Russians pulls left toward the common East-Asian, Siberian and Native American dimension 2. Note that Finns doesn't show the same level of pull towards left as the Saamis, Mordovians and Vologda Russians.
zoom in
https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/PCAD2D3-130214EuropeZoomInd.png

However if looking at dimension 3 /(vertical) we clearly see Saamis and Finns pulling towards the Native Americans dimension at about same level of intensity. It appears to be lacking among Vologda Russians and Mordovians who pull toward the common East-Asian, Siberian and Native American dimension 2 (horizontal). This seem to suggest (also noted by commentators of this blog from ealier posts) that there is different influences from the East in Europe.

[ButlerKing]

There is genetic ignorance too. Northern Russians do not cluster with Finns or between Finns and Slavs in Europeans comparisons to East Asians, Amerindians and Siberians. They are, actually, very similar to Mordovians like Erzya though. There might be some nationalists who want to lay claim to Urals or North Russia and exaggarate genetic ties. ;)

Saamis have little to do with anyone.

http://fennoscandia.blogspot.no/2014/02/europeans-and-native-americans.html

https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/PCAD2D3-130214.png

zoom in
https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/PCAD2D3-130214EuropeZoomInd.png




What do you mean? North Russians and Finns are almost indistinguishable. They both have over 90% European admixture with 6-12% Siberian Mongoloid admixture only different is North Russians have west Asian but is much less than southern Russian and central Russians

[Äijä]

What do you mean? North Russians and Finns are almost indistinguishable. They both have over 90% European admixture with 6-12% Siberian Mongoloid admixture only different is North Russians have west Asian but is much less than southern Russian and central Russians

Try to understand that the N1c is not the cause for the component, look at other N1c heavy populations.

[Äijä]

There is genetic ignorance too. Northern Russians do not cluster with Finns or between Finns and Slavs in Europeans comparisons to East Asians, Amerindians and Siberians. They are, actually, very similar to Mordovians like Erzya though. There might be some nationalists who want to lay claim to Urals or North Russia and exaggarate genetic ties. ;)

Saamis have little to do with anyone.

http://fennoscandia.blogspot.no/2014/02/europeans-and-native-americans.html

https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/PCAD2D3-130214.png

zoom in
https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/PCAD2D3-130214EuropeZoomInd.png



I exaggarated little but you know there where Baltic Finns with those other Uralics in Bjarmaland.

[ButlerKing]

Try to understand that the N1c is not the cause for the component, look at other N1c heavy populations.

Like who?

[Dasr]

just an ignorant question: how can finns have almost the same amount of dna as nenets and still look as the do?

[ButlerKing]

just an ignorant question: how can finns have almost the same amount of dna as nenets and still look as the do?


And how can nenets look predominatly Mongoloid to fully Mongoloid despite having 63% Western Eurasian mtDNA and 25% Western Eurasians combined with 75% N. That means only 37% Mongoloid mtDNA if we consider N as non-mongoloid.


1 generation 50%
2 generation 25%
3 generation 12.5%
4 generation 6.2%
5 generation 3.15%
6 generation 1.1%



Finns lack Mongoloid mtDNA and despite that they average 6.25% Mongoloid to 9.3% Mongoloid

[Argang]

What do you mean? North Russians and Finns are almost indistinguishable. They both have over 90% European admixture with 6-12% Siberian Mongoloid admixture only different is North Russians have west Asian but is much less than southern Russian and central Russians

They're very distinguishable and don't cluster together. North Russians are like Erzya. Calculators such as Dodecad which the blog you linked uses are dependant on a fixed set of reference populations and do not show the variation as well as PCA and MDS plots.

[ButlerKing]

just an ignorant question: how can finns have almost the same amount of dna as nenets and still look as the do?


The difference between Finns and Nenets is that Nenets have 75% N combined with 37% Mongoloid mtDNA and so they averaged 70-90% Mongoloid.


Finns have 65% Mongoloid DNA but 0% Mongoloid mtDNA and so they have from 6 - 12%. Clearly they had no mongoloid mtDNA female ancestry to mix with

[Dasr]

The difference between Finns and Nenets is that Nenets have 75% N combined with 37% Mongoloid mtDNA and so they averaged 70-90% Mongoloid.


Finns have 65% Mongoloid DNA but 0% Mongoloid mtDNA and so they have from 6 - 12%. Clearly they had no mongoloid mtDNA female ancestry to mix with
And It looks like I am not the only one not to realize this?

[Dasr]

And how can nenets look predominatly Mongoloid to fully Mongoloid despite having 63% Western Eurasian mtDNA and 25% Western Eurasians combined with 75% N. That means only 37% Mongoloid mtDNA if we consider N as non-mongoloid.


1 generation 50%
2 generation 25%
3 generation 12.5%
4 generation 6.2%
5 generation 3.15%
6 generation 1.1%



Finns lack Mongoloid mtDNA and despite that they average 6.25% Mongoloid to 9.3% Mongoloid¨¨

[Matt5898]

Tables, charts, links.

You absolutely cannot deny

Yes, I can.
You must SEE these people, before talking nonsense about Uralic race and Northern Russians. Your links and charts are internet trash.

[Black Wolf]

A fur trapper comes up north, he takes a local Saami woman as her bride, they have a son.

What is so difficult with this to understand I do not know.

This may relate to the situation in Finland as well and why so many Finns have mtDNA haplogroup U5b1b1a1 which is very common among the Saami. My father's mtDNA haplogroup is U5b1b1a1 and comes from Finland.

[Matt5898]

Everyone knows the place was totally Finnic before.

I wasn't talking about that.....

[Matt5898]

Northern Russians do not cluster with Finns or between Finns and Slavs in Europeans comparisons to East Asians, Amerindians and Siberians. They are, actually, very similar to Mordovians like Erzya though.

Exactly.

[ButlerKing]

Yes, I can.
You must SEE these people, before talking nonsense about Uralic race and Northern Russians. Your links and charts are internet trash.

See what people?

[Matt5898]

See what people?

Every people you explore, especially when you talk about their race