Please prove Kosovo is part of Albania and Albanians are Illyrians.

[Anglojew]

Hello, whilst debating Albanians sometimes the discussion becomes heated. Without getting into an argument but discussing the issues in a civilised fashion can Albanians please prove the following two claims (made in another thread today here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118376-If-crimea-joins-Russia-then-why-can-t-kosovo-join-Albania-!&p=2516882#post2516882));

1. That Kosovo belongs to Albania

2. That Albanians are descendants of Illyrians

Thanks in advance.

[Skerdilaid]

Fuck you lazy cunt!

[Kalimtari]

Hello, whilst debating Albanians sometimes the discussion becomes heated. Without getting into an argument but discussing the issues in a civilised fashion can Albanians please prove the following two claims (made in another thread today here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118376-If-crimea-joins-Russia-then-why-can-t-kosovo-join-Albania-!&p=2516882#post2516882));

1. That Kosovo belongs to Albania

2. That Albanians are descendants of Illyrians

Thanks in advance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPwhttp://a-z-animals.com/media/animals/images/470x370/weasel9.jpg

[Stefan_Dusan]

Obviously Kosovo is not part of Albania.

The original inhabitants of Kosovo, whoever they were, became Romance speaking. Byzantines ruled this area very firmly and never recorded an Albanian there. They did record Albanians further south and even in more remote areas but not a single record of them in a firmly controlled region like Kosovo. The Romance speaking people of Kosovo fused with the slavs who came in the 600s. Albanians came to Kosovo much later.

[Borna]

I don't like Serbs, but so far Albanians failed to prove me there are any sings of archeological findings related to Albanians on Kosovo. On the other hand, Serb toponyms are there fore more then 12th centuries. Even so, word Kosovo is of Slavic origin, Albanian derivative Kosova means nothing in their language.

[Skerdilaid]

I don't like Serbs, but so far Albanians failed to prove me there are any sings of archeological findings related to Albanians on Kosovo. On the other hand, Serb toponyms are there fore more then 12th centuries. Even so, word Kosovo is of Slavic origin, Albanian derivative Kosova means nothing in their language.

Stupid kid, Albanians don't have to prove anything, Western historians do that for us. So, go read some books lazy bum!

[Stefan_Dusan]

Stupid kid, Albanians don't have to prove anything, Western historians do that for us. So, go read some books lazy bum!

Western historians never proved you were in Kosovo. That would be retarded especially since most Albanians from Kosovo themselves trace to northern Albania in just 200-300 years!

Go find me a Byzantine account of Albanians in Kosovo, go ahead and try. You won't find one :D

[Borna]

Stupid kid, Albanians don't have to prove anything, Western historians do that for us. So, go read some books lazy bum!

I so far never insulted you, your insulting tribal feuds i will leave to you, don't insult me and post in civilized manner, in a same way i did it.

[Machete]

Fuck you lazy cunt!

He is jew to much gold in his bank account :laugh:

[Kalimtari]

Obviously Kosovo is not part of Albania.

The original inhabitants of Kosovo, whoever they were, became Romance speaking. Byzantines ruled this area very firmly and never recorded an Albanian there. They did record Albanians further south and even in more remote areas but not a single record of them in a firmly controlled region like Kosovo. The Romance speaking people of Kosovo fused with the slavs who came in the 600s. Albanians came to Kosovo much later.

I agree with the Vlach thing, it's true, but how do we know there were no Albanians dwelling in mountains and other elevated areas? Some of them even around lowland settlements as traders/mediators? Sources are scarce and pretty bad in methodology

[Borna]

Albanians are mentioned in Emperor Dušans Code, under name of "Arbanasi". I think that word was used by Serbs during medieval times for Albanians.

[Kalimtari]

Albanians are mentioned in Emperor Dušans Code, under name of "Arbanasi". I think that word was used by Serbs during medieval times for Albanians.

read thisa source, it's quite good:



Origins: Serbs, Albanians and Vlachs

Chapter 2 in Noel Malcolm's Kosovo, a short history (Macmilan, London, 1998, p. 22-40)

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/nm/kosovo.html

don't mind that funny URL though :D

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Obviously Kosovo is not part of Albania.

The original inhabitants of Kosovo, whoever they were, became Romance speaking. Byzantines ruled this area very firmly and never recorded an Albanian there. They did record Albanians further south and even in more remote areas but not a single record of them in a firmly controlled region like Kosovo. The Romance speaking people of Kosovo fused with the slavs who came in the 600s. Albanians came to Kosovo much later.

Loosers since 1389, now cry over for something which wasn't yours from day one.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Albanians are mentioned in Emperor Dušans Code, under name of "Arbanasi". I think that word was used by Serbs during medieval times for Albanians.

Look for Stefan pearl what epitome puts for Arbanasi warrior he calls as Serbian warrior....And we expect this motherfucker to be reliable which disapproves own role model. :D

[Stefan_Dusan]

Look for Stefan pearl what epitome puts for Arbanasi warrior he calls as Serbian warrior....And we expect this motherfucker to be reliable which disapproves own role model. :D

What did I put moron? It's a painting by Paja Jovanovic called "Serbian Warrior." I didn't paint it, I didn't name it, you're so fucking butthurt it's not even funny :laugh:

[The Illyrian Warrior]

What did I put moron? It's a painting by Paja Jovanovic called "Serbian Warrior." I didn't paint it, I didn't name it, you're so fucking butthurt it's not even funny :laugh:

Then Paja must've been a bigger retard than you, no wonder academy were first who order to spread such BS then being carried by random serbs through generations when interesting enough your very own Dusan emperor described Albanians as Arbanas. ;)

[Stefan_Dusan]

Then Paja must've been a bigger retard than you, no wonder academy were first who order to spread such BS then being carried by random serbs through generation when interesting enough your very own Dusan emperor described Albanians as Arbanas. ;)

The only retard here is you :laugh:

So what is interesting about the name Arbanas?

[armenianbodyhair]

They can't for the obvious reason.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

The only retard here is you :laugh:

So what is interesting about the name Arbanas?

The depicted painting has Arbanas warrior name in lower end of pic, how the hell you came out into conclusion that the warrior itself is a serb. :D

[Stefan_Dusan]

The depicted painting has Arbanas warrior name in lower end of pic, how the hell you came out into conclusion that the warrior itself is a serb. :D

Show me where in Paint,

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/57136369.jpg

[Kalimtari]

They can't for the obvious reason.

who actually can? Vlachs (mainly) and (partly) Byzantines? Every Slavic speaking nation in the Balkans is based on Vlach genetics and material culture. Ergo, Balkans belongs to Vlachs (which in a way IMHO actually does)?

[KrashNick]

What did I put moron? It's a painting by Paja Jovanovic called "Serbian Warrior." I didn't paint it, I didn't name it, you're so fucking butthurt it's not even funny :laugh:

Stefan i explained you everything in your profile ....

Let's just make a thread and ask the members here if the pics i send you look more albanian or serbian :D ?

[Machete]

the jew wants war between albos and serbs its obvious :D

[armenianbodyhair]

who actually can? Vlachs (mainly) and (partly) Byzantines? Every Slavic speaking nation in the Balkans is based on Vlach genetics and material culture. Ergo, Balkans belongs to Vlachs (which in a way IMHO actually does)?

I realized how that sounded after I posted but that's not really what I meant. People get delusionally attached to the past and don't care about the future and this thread wreaks of troll.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Stefan i explained you everything in your profile ....

Let's just make a thread and ask the members here if the pics i send you look more albanian or serbian :D ?

And I explained to you, Paja Jovanovic did paint an "Arbanas Warrior" and here he is, in his clothing:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2478/1dsc4168.jpg

Notice the difference in costume :laugh:

[Kalimtari]

^^

now you're fighting over Paja Jovanović?

http://crazy-frankenstein.com/free-wallpapers-files/holidays-wallpapers/funny-easter-wallpapers/holy-shit-funny-easter-wallpapers-1024x768.jpg

:D

[Kalimtari]

I realized how that sounded after I posted but that's not really what I meant. People get delusionally attached to the past and don't care about the future and this thread wreaks of troll.

very true,I totally agree

[KrashNick]

And I explained to you, Paja Jovanovic did paint an "Arbanas Warrior" and here he is, in his clothing:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2478/1dsc4168.jpg

Notice the difference in costume :laugh:

So according to you those people are Serbs with Albanian traditional costumes :laugh:

http://www.arte.rs/files/klijenti/0/24/artwork_526.jpg

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=84292&stc=1

[Stefan_Dusan]

So according to you those people are Serbs with Albanian traditional costumes :laugh:

http://www.arte.rs/files/klijenti/0/24/artwork_526.jpg

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=84292&stc=1

That's a painting of his titled the "cock fight". It's probably of Albanians, as you notice only one of them is wearing our pants the rest your (or Greek) fustanella.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Show me where in Paint,

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/57136369.jpg

This warrior could be noticed quite clear comes straight from Rugova mountains (bordering with Montenegro), there isn't nothing serb in him neither does it describe anywhere as Serbian warrior that's wishful thinking of you or your academy at that times....Its quite silly tbh, since nowhere heard even from Serbian academia nowadays claiming these costumes or warrior itself as Serb.

[KrashNick]

That's a painting of his titled the "cock fight". It's probably of Albanians, as you notice only one of them is wearing our pants the rest your (or Greek) fustanella.

So we stole them from Greeks and Serbs , is there something we have :D ?

[alb0zfinest]

Hello, whilst debating Albanians sometimes the discussion becomes heated. Without getting into an argument but discussing the issues in a civilised fashion can Albanians please prove the following two claims (made in another thread today here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118376-If-crimea-joins-Russia-then-why-can-t-kosovo-join-Albania-!&p=2516882#post2516882));

1. That Kosovo belongs to Albania

2. That Albanians are descendants of Illyrians

Thanks in advance.

The second question will pretty much settle everything, because if there is an Albanian-illyrian connection (to which there is) then we know who the lands belongs to since the Illyrians were here before the slavs.

That is discussed here to which several sources were provided linking Illyrians with Albanians (these are not Albanian historians btw, none of them)
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?102298-Austrian-scholars-leave-Albania-lost-for-words

P.S: Its not very smart from you to make a big claim, and than say prove to me otherwise. If you want your claim to be taken seriously actually provide proof for what you say. The worst part is you literally know nothing of these issues and you get involved in them so often.

[Stefan_Dusan]

This warrior could be noticed quite clear comes straight from Rugova mountains (bordering with Montenegro), there isn't nothing serb in him neither does it describe anywhere as Serbian warrior that's wishful thinking of you or your academy at that times....Its quite silly tbh, since nowhere heard even from Serbian academia nowadays claiming these costumes or warrior itself as Serb.

More retarded comment from you, the red djamadan is not worn in Rugova as I told Skerdi. You wear a white/beige djamadan there! As for the head scarf, it's Ottoman as long as the arctic night, butthurt Albo :laugh:

http://www.haircoverings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/head-scarf.jpg

While I'm here you won't steal our traditions and get away with it.

[Stefan_Dusan]

So we stole them from Greeks and Serbs , is there something we have :D ?

You should revert tot true Albanian costume, medieval times :D

http://oi55.tinypic.com/1zbudh.jpg

Anyways, I'm quite fine with saying the Plis and Fustanella (fustanella maybe) are Albanian. The chakshire (tirqa) and djamadan, not at all though.

[justme]

Stefan_Dusan is a farting donkey.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Stefan_Dusan is a farting donkey.

Ah Just Me is butthurt, it's ok sweety I still like you even though you're silly :D

[The Illyrian Warrior]

More retarded comment from you, the red djamadan is not worn in Rugova as I told Skerdi. You wear a white/beige djamadan there! As for the head scarf, it's Ottoman as long as the arctic night, butthurt Albo :laugh:

While I'm here you won't steal our traditions and get away with it.

Starting from head scarf and all the way down to the shoes, describes a perfect example of Albanian in costumes rather a serb in mids of Northern Albanian Alps.

Now better get a beer and stick up in the arse like Martinovic. :D

[Stefan_Dusan]

Starting from head scarf and all the way to the shoes, describes a perfect example of Albanian in costumes rather a serb in mids of Northern Albanian Alps.

Now better get a beer and stick up in the arse like Martinovic. :D

I rather it stick it up your ass, I never fucked an Albanian virgin before :D Will you call me (t)ata as I'm doing it?

[justme]

Ah I am butthurt, it's ok sweety I still like you even though you're silly :D :rolleyes:

[armenianbodyhair]

heeheehee ur so funny. I actually laughed so hard I pooped a little, good thing I was wearing an adult diaper.

[Kalimtari]

More retarded comment from you, the red djamadan is not worn in Rugova as I told Skerdi. You wear a white/beige djamadan there! As for the head scarf, it's Ottoman as long as the arctic night, butthurt Albo :laugh:

http://www.haircoverings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/head-scarf.jpg

While I'm here you won't steal our traditions and get away with it.

Catholic Croats from Kupres:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iCdKEF5fCgI/UTM2TQlHnKI/AAAAAAAABDk/1udL-dy7G2w/s640/zlosela%20%282%29.jpg


Croats from other places in Herzegovina:

http://static.politika.co.rs/uploads/rubrike/260217/i/1/NARODNA-NOSNJA-SA-ZMIJANJA.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/hr/1/16/Humska_no%C5%A1nja.jpg
http://hbzup.com/oki/data/upimages/subfolders/kultura-drustvo/09.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1VReKMDByV4/T-Lk7l_K2MI/AAAAAAAAAu0/ixp1aX5NyJs/s1600/narodnja%20no%C5%A1nja%20na%20bobovcu.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mfPno0K7Gu8/UZ5FBmh1IYI/AAAAAAAAD2Y/UQOxmSrHI48/s1600/DSC_2457.jpg



Albanians:

http://www.malsia.eu/Rugovani%20me%20Lahut.jpg
http://www.ereniku.net/ShoqataRugovaSHKA09.jpg
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/bati.kuqi/Ansambli%20i%20Mitrovices_files/image002.jpg


coincidence or same roots?

[armenianbodyhair]

I never fucked an Albanian virgin before

LOL.

[Stefan_Dusan]

coincidence or same roots?

The head scarf comes from Ottomans time. You won't find a single painting of anyone wearing it before the 1400s. Probably some soldiers went to some faraway Muslim lands and brought it back.

[Argang]

People who ask these kind of questions need to be careful of the words they say.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/420269_611013942258723_367636388_n.jpg

[armenianbodyhair]

Catholic Croats from Kupres:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iCdKEF5fCgI/UTM2TQlHnKI/AAAAAAAABDk/1udL-dy7G2w/s640/zlosela%20%282%29.jpg


Croats from other places in Herzegovina:

http://static.politika.co.rs/uploads/rubrike/260217/i/1/NARODNA-NOSNJA-SA-ZMIJANJA.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/hr/1/16/Humska_no%C5%A1nja.jpg
http://hbzup.com/oki/data/upimages/subfolders/kultura-drustvo/09.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1VReKMDByV4/T-Lk7l_K2MI/AAAAAAAAAu0/ixp1aX5NyJs/s1600/narodnja%20no%C5%A1nja%20na%20bobovcu.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mfPno0K7Gu8/UZ5FBmh1IYI/AAAAAAAAD2Y/UQOxmSrHI48/s1600/DSC_2457.jpg



Albanians:

http://www.malsia.eu/Rugovani%20me%20Lahut.jpg
http://www.ereniku.net/ShoqataRugovaSHKA09.jpg
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/bati.kuqi/Ansambli%20i%20Mitrovices_files/image002.jpg


coincidence or same roots?
thts hot. would bang just to make my mommy angry.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I rather it stick it up your ass, I never fucked an Albanian virgin before :D Will you call me (t)ata as I'm doing it?

Go play with beer first then dream about something, serbine. xD Typical answer for sexually abused kid. :laugh:

[Skerdilaid]

Leave them guys, they have nothing of value of their own, so why not claim other cultures and traditions as their own? Nothing new here, cella svet je Srbin!

[Kalimtari]

The head scarf comes from Ottomans time. You won't find a single painting of anyone wearing it before the 1400s. Probably some soldiers went to some faraway Muslim lands and brought it back.

Catholic Croats are wearing an Ottoman scarf?

[Stefan_Dusan]

Go play with beer first then dream about something, serbine. xD Typical answer for sexual abused kid. :laugh:

Dreaming about you so much is weaker than the real thing :D Don't you think, I can make you feel like no one has made you feel before :laugh:

[Skerdilaid]

The head scarf comes from Ottomans time. You won't find a single painting of anyone wearing it before the 1400s. Probably some soldiers went to some faraway Muslim lands and brought it back.

Byzantine soldiers had such scarf too, but what a fuck do you know?

[Stefan_Dusan]

Catholic Croats are wearing an Ottoman scarf?

They're from Herzegovina, just like Catholic Albanians (as well as Muslim) and Orthodox Serbs wore it.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Byzantine soldiers had such scarf too, but what a fuck do you know?

Put picture here dumbass, now.

[alb0zfinest]

Can we please at least stick to the topic?

The quarrels you guys have can be settled in another thread...

[alb0zfinest]

heeheehee ur so funny. I actually laughed so hard I pooped a little, good thing I was wearing an adult diaper.

Somehow I don't doubt that :D

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Dreaming about you so much is weaker than the real thing :D Don't you think, I can make you feel like no one has made you feel before :laugh:

A mamu ti jebem ali imas usta kao govna ne znas da stopujesh sebe, govori sta hocesh ali tvoje cure pickice ide kao semen ovde. ;)

[Stefan_Dusan]

A mamu ti jebem ali imas usta kao govna ne znas da stopujesh sebe, govori sta hocesh ali tvoje cure pickice ide kao semen ovde. ;)

Aj siptaricice, Ti govorish dobro srpski. Mozhete razgovarati prljavo za mene kada jebem tebe u dupe :laugh:

[Kalimtari]

They're from Herzegovina, just like Catholic Albanians (as well as Muslim) and Orthodox Serbs wore it.

yeah, but why would they wear something from Turkish/Muslim culture?

[armenianbodyhair]

Somehow I don't doubt that :D

True it was a kiddy diaper because I am 3.

[Stefan_Dusan]

yeah, but why would they wear something from Turkish/Muslim culture?

Probably soldiers brought it back from their time as mercs in Ottomans. This style then came to hold in Balkans simply because it looked "badass" sort of similar how in America tattoos used to be just soldiers, criminals and sailors and now every high school girl has one.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Aj siptaricice, Ti govorish dobro srpski. Mozhete razgovarati prljavo za mene kada jeben tebe u dupe :laugh:

Tvoje srpske picke naucili su mi malo srpickomskim jezikum, ali za tebe ja bih znao kako cu zagovorati....A mamu ti jebem cetnikskom cubre zasto ne hocesh ovde da ti pokazes Kosova e da naucem istorija za pivom kada je srbin kao ti uranjanja u dupe. :laugh:

[Kalimtari]

Probably soldiers brought it back from their time as mercs in Ottomans. This style then came to hold in Balkans simply because it looked "badass" sort of similar how in America tattoos used to be just soldiers, criminals and sailors and now every high school girl has one.

dunno, it's possible

[Stefan_Dusan]

Tvoje srpske picke naucili su mi malo srpickomskim jezikum, ali za tebe ja bih znao kako cu zagovorati....A mamu ti jebem cetnikskom cubre zasto ne hocesh ovde da ti pokazes Kosova e da naucem istorija za pivom kada je srbin kao ti uranjanja u dupe. :laugh:

chuti siptaricice, pusti me da uzhivam u tvoje dupe.

[Cleitus]

Obviously Kosovo is not part of Albania.

The original inhabitants of Kosovo, whoever they were, became Romance speaking. Byzantines ruled this area very firmly and never recorded an Albanian there. They did record Albanians further south and even in more remote areas but not a single record of them in a firmly controlled region like Kosovo. The Romance speaking people of Kosovo fused with the slavs who came in the 600s. Albanians came to Kosovo much later.
Fables over Fables :picard2:
Our language is heavily Romance influenced.

[Borna]

http://cro-eu.com/galerija-fotografija/albums/userpics/10001/22_Slavonija_(Vinkovci).jpg

http://cro-eu.com/galerija-fotografija/albums/userpics/10001/23_Slavonija_(Vinkovci).jpg

http://cro-eu.com/galerija-fotografija/albums/userpics/10001/3_Dalmacija_(okolica_Splita).jpg

These are Croat costumes from Croatia

[cally]

You guys are being ridiculous ..nationalism is fucking with ur brains

[Stefan_Dusan]

http://cro-eu.com/galerija-fotografija/albums/userpics/10001/3_Dalmacija_(okolica_Splita).jpg

These are Croat costumes from Croatia

Interesting he is wearing Albanian pants according to Skerdi :laugh:

We call them chakshire. What do croats call them?

[The Illyrian Warrior]

chuti siptaricice, pusti me da uzhivam u tvoje dupe.

Ali imas komplekse mamu cetniksom da ti li jebem o sve rupem zasto ne doces ovde, dali su Albanci jebao sve familiu i pobegli ste kao psi kopile jedan.

[wvwvw]

Byzantine soldiers had such scarf too, but what a fuck do you know?

Greek warriors wore fustanella before any Albanian but what do you know?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/12th_century_Greek_Warrior_Fustanella.JPG
Sgraffito pottery fragments from the 12th century showing Greek warriors wearing the fustanella, from Corinth, Greece.

Albanians borrowed fustanella from Greek Epirotes, when they came under the influence of Byzantines. It is no coincidence that Albanians wore fustanella mainly in Southern Albania while the rest of Albanians wore trousers.

As for the origin of this kilt. ancients statues were found that wore this kind of dress.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Young_man_exomis_Musei_Capitolini_MC892.jpg

To argue about who "stole" Fustanella from who is as stupid as italians arguing with the french who stole the wearing of trousers from whom. Fustanella belongs to Albanians as much as it belongs to greeks, bulgarians, and anyone else who wore it.

[Kalimtari]

you both speak Serbian like Niko Bellich, lol

[LightHouse89]

I dont know much about it but I do think this is pretty funny............ LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMkvnyLYU4

[Stefan_Dusan]

Ali imas komplekse mamu cetniksom da ti li jebem o sve rupem zasto ne doces ovde, dali su Albanci jebao sve familiu i pobegli ste kao psi kopile jedan.

Ja cu doci ovog leta, mozhemo jebati u severnoj mitrovici. vam cu poslati e-mail kad stignem :D Volim da jebem albansku pichku.

[Kalimtari]

Greek warriors wore fustanella before any Albanian but what do you know?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/12th_century_Greek_Warrior_Fustanella.JPG
Sgraffito pottery fragments from the 12th century showing Greek warriors wearing the fustanella, from Corinth, Greece.

Albanians borrowed fustanella from Greek Epirotes, when they came under the influence of Byzantines. It is no coincidence that Albanians wore fustanella mainly in Southern Albania while the rest of Albanians wore trousers.

As for the origin of this kilt. ancients statues were found that wore this kind of dress.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Young_man_exomis_Musei_Capitolini_MC892.jpg

To argue about who "stole" Fustanella from who is as stupid as italians arguing with the french who stole the wearing of trousers from who. Fustanella belongs to Albanians as much as it belongs to greeks, bulgarians, and anyone else who wore it.

5th century BC Slovenia:


http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7060/fusgvjetmar2nx.jpg

[Kalimtari]

Ja cu doci ovog leta, mozhemo jebati u severnoj mitrovici. vam cu poslati e-mail kad stignem :D Volim da jebem albansku picka.

hetero men love to fuck any pička, that's for sure

[wvwvw]

5th century BC Slovenia:


http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7060/fusgvjetmar2nx.jpg

Slovenia was a Roman province :rolleyes:

[Stefan_Dusan]

hetero men love to fuck any pička, that's for sure

Illyrian has been my crush since entire forum. My heart becomes weak when I see him, I need to release tension and sparks to fly with just me and him :D

[Cleitus]

Today Greeks are Mongrels, ancient Greeks were our kinsmen.

[Kalimtari]

Slovenia was a Roman province :rolleyes:

5th century BC?! Maribor (eastern Slovenia) wasn't even in the old Noricum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noricum

[wvwvw]

Today Greeks are Mongrels, ancient Greeks were our kinsmen.

Judging from your photo I'd say you are pretty mongrolized yourself :laugh:

[Kalimtari]

Illyrian has been my crush since entire forum. My heart becomes weak when I see him, I need to release tension and sparks to fly with just me and him :D

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-38538-Friday-Ice-Cube-damn-gif-wtf-f-rjyQ.gif

:D

[wvwvw]

5th century BC?! Maribor (eastern Slovenia) wasn't even in the old Noricum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noricum

And Slavs arrived when? btw Illyrium at the time was littered with Greek colonies
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1240

although there are a lot of things we don't know about the region, the civilizations that existed there prior to Greeks and so on

I don't see what modern Slovenians have got to do with the Fustanella. It was a common piece of clothing at the time, it does not belong to anyone

[Kalimtari]

And Slavs arrived when? btw Illyrium at the time was littered with Greek colonies
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1240

although there are a lot of things we don't know about the region, the civilizations that existed there prior to Greeks and so on

I don't see what modern Slovenians have got to do with the Fustanella. It was a common piece of clothing at the time, it does not belong to anyone

baby listen, that kilted statue is from Slovene city of Maribor, 5th century BC, where there was no Slavs or Romans. That culture was either Illyrian or Celtic. Greek influenced, maybe but less likely (due to its time frame prior to Hellenic era). C'mon Xena, you can't win every "argument", don't forget you're a mortal like everybody else.

[Skerdilaid]

Greek warriors wore fustanella before any Albanian but what do you know?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/12th_century_Greek_Warrior_Fustanella.JPG
Sgraffito pottery fragments from the 12th century showing Greek warriors wearing the fustanella, from Corinth, Greece.

Albanians borrowed fustanella from Greek Epirotes, when they came under the influence of Byzantines. It is no coincidence that Albanians wore fustanella mainly in Southern Albania while the rest of Albanians wore trousers.

As for the origin of this kilt. ancients statues were found that wore this kind of dress.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Young_man_exomis_Musei_Capitolini_MC892.jpg

To argue about who "stole" Fustanella from who is as stupid as italians arguing with the french who stole the wearing of trousers from whom. Fustanella belongs to Albanians as much as it belongs to greeks, bulgarians, and anyone else who wore it.

Read what a real Greek historian has to say, you internet historian you! Andre Gerolymatos " The Balkans Wars". What you showing there is not a Fustanella, but a Chiton....

[Cleitus]

Judging from your photo I'd say you are pretty mongrolized yourself :laugh:
Im a Aryan Superman Dinarisch-Nordish-Ostisch-Westisch, fat short Armenoid-Med-Alpinid greeks can not be compared to me.

[Borna]

Im a Aryan Superman Dinarisch-Nordish-Ostisch-Westisch, fat short Armenoid-Med-Alpinid greeks can not be compared to me.

What do you mean by Nordish?

[Cleitus]

What do you mean by Nordish?
Borreby is Nordish-Ostisch

[Borna]

Borreby is Nordish-Ostisch

Most of people classified you as Dinaric, not Borreby. From what i have seen.
As well there are two types of Borreby, Balkan one and Danish one. Obviously second one is significantly lighter, therefore there is nothing Nordish among dark-haired borrebys.

[Cleitus]

Most of people classified you as Dinaric, not Borreby. From what i have seen.
I am Dinaric-Borreby with Pontid influence. Dinarization is a process, and you were the only one who classified me only as Dinaric.
Borreby is a Nordish subrace fool.

[Borna]

I am Dinaric-Borreby with Pontid influence. Dinarization is a process, and you were the only one who classified me only as Dinaric.

Still it does not mean that Alpine + CM can count Nordish in a same way as Danish borreby.

We went off so much on this thread.

[Cleitus]

Still it does not mean that Alpine + CM can count Nordish in a same way as Danish borreby.

We went off so much on this thread.
I didnt talk about CM fool, Berberid is also consideret CM. :picard2:

[Stefan_Dusan]

Still it does not mean that Alpine + CM can count Nordish in a same way as Danish borreby.

We went off so much on this thread.

He is Pontid-Alpine.

Few of the Albanian posters here are primarily dinarid.

[Cleitus]

He is Pontid-Alpine.

Few of the Albanian posters here are primarily dinarid.
You have no idea of Classification nobody in my family is Alpinid or Pontid, nor am i.

[wvwvw]

Im a Aryan Superman Dinarisch-Nordish-Ostisch-Westisch, fat short Armenoid-Med-Alpinid greeks can not be compared to me.

Don't make me laugh punk

Coon on Albrownians:

"Lebanese will serve as an example. They are of a little more than moderate European stature, with a mean of 167 cm.; their bodily proportions are medium, from the metrical standpoint; they are thicker set as a rule than Bedawin, and are built more often like the Anatolian Turks; some, who follow sedentary occupations, incline to corpulence."

"In their head and face measurements, THEY ARE VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL WITH THE MORE BRACYCEPHALIC GROUPS OF ANATOLIAN TURKS studied in the last section; THEY LIKEWISE FALL EXTREMELY CLOSE TO THE TOTAL MEANS FOR GHEGS IN NORTHERN ALBANIA, in all characters studied except the nasal dimensions; the Lebanese being shorter and slightly broader-nosed. The nasal dimensions of the Lebanese are 55 mm. by 35 mm., with a nasal nasal index of 63."

Near Eastern brachycephals; Syria, Armenia, and the Caucasus, C. S. Coon

"The occipital region is seldom protuberant, but more so among eastern than western Armenians; occipital flattening is found among 75 per cent, and its absence is commoner in the east than in the west. There can be little doubt that its intensity is partly due to unintentional cradling deformation, especially since the cradle was more commonly used in the west than in the east at the time that the men studied were infants. As in Albania, pronounced cranial asymmetry, a concomitant of unbound OCCIPITAL FLATTENING, is frequent."

Near Eastern brachycephals; Syria, Armenia, and the Caucasus, C. S. Coon


"The peculiar facial and cranial features of the Dinarics seem to be the results of differential inheritance in hybridization; the primary mixture which brings them about is apparently an Alpine-Mediterranean crass, with Mediterranean used in the widest sense of the word. The ASIATIC DINARICS, who appeared early in the Metal Age, were apparently Alpine-Cappadocian hybrids; many of those went to Europe and settled in widely separated places, including sections of the Dinaric Alps. The exaggerated Dinaric type of Albania, with its tendency to light brown eye color MAY CONCEIVABLY BE DERIVED FROM THIS SOURCE."

"All European Dinarics, however, CANNOT BE TRACES TO THIS NEAR EASTERN ORIGIN; most of them must be the result of primary blendings on EUROPEAN SOIL. Here the two principal ingredients are the tall, dark brown-eyed Adanto-Mediterranean which seems old and basic in southeastern Europa and an ordinary Alpine. Nordic accretions produce a Noric, Borreby-like accretions an Old Montenegnn. Neo-Danubian Slavic additions product the small-faced type common in Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia. "

"The blending of the Dinarics is never perfect in a chemical sense; in any Dinaric population there are ordinary Alpines and a few Atlanto-Mediterraneans along with their blended brethren. When the proportions of the ingredients are wrong, the type which is present in excess may be found in some numbers in its original form. That is why there are so many Alpines in France and Switzerland, and so many Atlanto-Mediterraneans in Malsia Jakovës. "

"DINARICISM IS NOT A QUALITY PERTAINING TO A SINGLE RACE, it is a condition. This condition is common in Europe; it is also common in western Asia. Furthermore, it is not confined to the white racial stock; the principle of hybrid inheritance which produces Dinarics in Europe has also produced Papuans in New Guinea, the Arii aristocrats in Polynesia, and many American Indians."

"The southern half of Albania, the homeland of the Toscs, lies outside the Dinaric racial area in the strictest sense. The Toscs are dwellers in compact villages, wearers of pleated kilts like the Greeks, and frequent emigrants to other lands. Like the Mzabites in Algeria, and the Hadhramis of southern Arabia, many of the male inhabitants of several southern Albanian towns, notably Korça, migrate to distant lands in their youth, work in factories or run shops, and return when they have accumulated enough money. It was this system which first led Albanians to migrate to America, a system which the Toscs share with the Greeks. "

Albania and the Dinaric Race, C. S. Coon

"The Armenian nose is extremely long, with a mean height of 60 mm., and quite wide, with a mean breadth of 38 mm. The nasal index, 64, is leptorrhine, but by no means as leptorrhine as the noses of European Dinarics. The difference between Albanian Dinaric and Armenian nasal indices lies entirely in the breadth. Like all other vertical dimensions, the nose height among Armenians is subject to geographical variation, but this is slighter than with most other characters, since a long nose is an essential Armenoid feature. The width also varies, from 37.4 mm. in Van, to 38.4 mm. in Kaisarie."

"The Armenians are metrically very much like the northern Albanians in most characters; the chief differences are the greater face length and greater nasal breadth of the Armenians. Although the differences between Armenians and Albanians are no greater than those between a number of European groups which collectively enjoy the designation Dinaric, the Armenians do stand at one extreme of the Armenoid-Dinaric combination, while the Osmanli Turks and the Syrian brachycephals fall much closer to the European end."

Near Eastern brachycephals; Syria, Armenia, and the Caucasus, C. S. Coon

[alb0zfinest]

He is Pontid-Alpine.

Few of the Albanian posters here are primarily dinarid.

*He is a gypsy :D

[Stefan_Dusan]

You have no idea of Classification nobody in my family is Alpinid or Pontid, nor am i.

You think you're Borreby or better yet Nordic? Nothing Borreby about you from what I remember, but post your pic again

[Cleitus]

Don't make me laugh punk

Coon on Albrownians:

"Lebanese will serve as an example. They are of a little more than moderate European stature, with a mean of 167 cm.; their bodily proportions are medium, from the metrical standpoint; they are thicker set as a rule than Bedawin, and are built more often like the Anatolian Turks; some, who follow sedentary occupations, incline to corpulence."

"In their head and face measurements, THEY ARE VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL WITH THE MORE BRACYCEPHALIC GROUPS OF ANATOLIAN TURKS studied in the last section; THEY LIKEWISE FALL EXTREMELY CLOSE TO THE TOTAL MEANS FOR GHEGS IN NORTHERN ALBANIA, in all characters studied except the nasal dimensions; the Lebanese being shorter and slightly broader-nosed. The nasal dimensions of the Lebanese are 55 mm. by 35 mm., with a nasal nasal index of 63."

Near Eastern brachycephals; Syria, Armenia, and the Caucasus, C. S. Coon

"The occipital region is seldom protuberant, but more so among eastern than western Armenians; occipital flattening is found among 75 per cent, and its absence is commoner in the east than in the west. There can be little doubt that its intensity is partly due to unintentional cradling deformation, especially since the cradle was more commonly used in the west than in the east at the time that the men studied were infants. As in Albania, pronounced cranial asymmetry, a concomitant of unbound OCCIPITAL FLATTENING, is frequent."

Near Eastern brachycephals; Syria, Armenia, and the Caucasus, C. S. Coon


"The peculiar facial and cranial features of the Dinarics seem to be the results of differential inheritance in hybridization; the primary mixture which brings them about is apparently an Alpine-Mediterranean crass, with Mediterranean used in the widest sense of the word. The ASIATIC DINARICS, who appeared early in the Metal Age, were apparently Alpine-Cappadocian hybrids; many of those went to Europe and settled in widely separated places, including sections of the Dinaric Alps. The exaggerated Dinaric type of Albania, with its tendency to light brown eye color MAY CONCEIVABLY BE DERIVED FROM THIS SOURCE."

"All European Dinarics, however, CANNOT BE TRACES TO THIS NEAR EASTERN ORIGIN; most of them must be the result of primary blendings on EUROPEAN SOIL. Here the two principal ingredients are the tall, dark brown-eyed Adanto-Mediterranean which seems old and basic in southeastern Europa and an ordinary Alpine. Nordic accretions produce a Noric, Borreby-like accretions an Old Montenegnn. Neo-Danubian Slavic additions product the small-faced type common in Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia. "

"The blending of the Dinarics is never perfect in a chemical sense; in any Dinaric population there are ordinary Alpines and a few Atlanto-Mediterraneans along with their blended brethren. When the proportions of the ingredients are wrong, the type which is present in excess may be found in some numbers in its original form. That is why there are so many Alpines in France and Switzerland, and so many Atlanto-Mediterraneans in Malsia Jakovës. "

"DINARICISM IS NOT A QUALITY PERTAINING TO A SINGLE RACE, it is a condition. This condition is common in Europe; it is also common in western Asia. Furthermore, it is not confined to the white racial stock; the principle of hybrid inheritance which produces Dinarics in Europe has also produced Papuans in New Guinea, the Arii aristocrats in Polynesia, and many American Indians."

"The southern half of Albania, the homeland of the Toscs, lies outside the Dinaric racial area in the strictest sense. The Toscs are dwellers in compact villages, wearers of pleated kilts like the Greeks, and frequent emigrants to other lands. Like the Mzabites in Algeria, and the Hadhramis of southern Arabia, many of the male inhabitants of several southern Albanian towns, notably Korça, migrate to distant lands in their youth, work in factories or run shops, and return when they have accumulated enough money. It was this system which first led Albanians to migrate to America, a system which the Toscs share with the Greeks. "

Albania and the Dinaric Race, C. S. Coon

"The Armenian nose is extremely long, with a mean height of 60 mm., and quite wide, with a mean breadth of 38 mm. The nasal index, 64, is leptorrhine, but by no means as leptorrhine as the noses of European Dinarics. The difference between Albanian Dinaric and Armenian nasal indices lies entirely in the breadth. Like all other vertical dimensions, the nose height among Armenians is subject to geographical variation, but this is slighter than with most other characters, since a long nose is an essential Armenoid feature. The width also varies, from 37.4 mm. in Van, to 38.4 mm. in Kaisarie."

"The Armenians are metrically very much like the northern Albanians in most characters; the chief differences are the greater face length and greater nasal breadth of the Armenians. Although the differences between Armenians and Albanians are no greater than those between a number of European groups which collectively enjoy the designation Dinaric, the Armenians do stand at one extreme of the Armenoid-Dinaric combination, while the Osmanli Turks and the Syrian brachycephals fall much closer to the European end."

Near Eastern brachycephals; Syria, Armenia, and the Caucasus, C. S. Coon

Dinarization is a Prozess which can happen everywhere, you didnt know that, Armenoid Mongrel ?

[Cleitus]

You think you're Borreby or better yet Nordic? Nothing Borreby about you from what I remember, but post your pic again
You have no idea of Racial classification so please shut up, Methusalem and Ujku are the only good classifiers here.

[Borna]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?117346-ClAsSiFy-Me/page5

How many people said Borreby, and how many Pontid?

[Cleitus]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?117346-ClAsSiFy-Me/page5

How many people said Borreby, and how many Pontid?

Like is said most people here dont have any idea of racial classification.

[Stefan_Dusan]

You have no idea of Racial classification so please shut up, Methusalem and Ujku are the only good classifiers here.

I don't know why you hate so much to be Pontid-Alpine, many Albanians are that combination :D

Anyways Skerdi is Borreby-Alpine with dinaricization and you two look nothing alike imo.

[Cleitus]

I don't know why you hate so much to be Pontid-Alpine, many Albanians are that combination :D

Anyways Skerdi is Borreby-Alpine with dinaricization and you two look nothing alike imo.

Skedi is much older than me and also more Alpinid.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Skedi is much older than me and also more Alpinid.

Whatever you want to hope for! I think you're good looking teenager, and I have no idea why you're embarrassed of being Pontid-Alpine. Dinarid and Borreby are neither as good looking combinations as Pontid-Alpine, especially Dinarid is reflective of shepherd mountain look.

[Cleitus]

These were the only usefull classifications i got.

Dinarisch+Cromagno-Alpinisch+Pontisch

Pontid + Dinarid + CM

Alpinized Pontid + CM

[wvwvw]

baby listen, that kilted statue is from Slovene city of Maribor, 5th century BC, where there was no Slavs or Romans. That culture was either Illyrian or Celtic. Greek influenced, maybe but less likely (due to its time frame prior to Hellenic era). C'mon Xena, you can't win every "argument", don't forget you're a mortal like everybody else.

Your connection to Ancient Illyrians exists only in the wild fantasies of Albanian nationalists
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/austrian-scholars-leave-albania-lost-for-words

[alb0zfinest]

Your connection to Ancient Illyrians exists only in the wild fantasies of Albanian nationalists
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/austrian-scholars-leave-albania-lost-for-words

Nigga please already disproved in the thread austrian scholars leave albania lost for words.

[Geni]

Hello, whilst debating Albanians sometimes the discussion becomes heated. Without getting into an argument but discussing the issues in a civilised fashion can Albanians please prove the following two claims (made in another thread today here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118376-If-crimea-joins-Russia-then-why-can-t-kosovo-join-Albania-!&p=2516882#post2516882));

1. That Kosovo belongs to Albania

2. That Albanians are descendants of Illyrians

Thanks in advance.

Man .. what is with you ...,histeric jewGjit (:laugh2: )...every thread albanians ,albanians ,albanians...:picard1:

[ALSh]

Whats the problem with this jew

[Trun]

Ebem vi u dupe sve.

[Borna]

Hyperborea why you had Vargsmal in your Avatar when he is equally Albanian-Hater as most of Serbs are here?

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Ja cu doci ovog leta, mozhemo jebati u severnoj mitrovici. vam cu poslati e-mail kad stignem :D Volim da jebem albansku pichku.

Samo izvoli ali samo da znas u juznom deo imas Albanci prosto si interesovan u tome ali ne cudaj zaversiti podreti u dupe ako si srecan naravno zasto moras zaversen ubit kao pacov. ;)

[Kalimtari]

Your connection to Ancient Illyrians exists only in the wild fantasies of Albanian nationalists
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/austrian-scholars-leave-albania-lost-for-words

you and me should be doing this:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/a908c64eeda16985ae0cd6cd0c7d3982/tumblr_mtpckfW1wV1rwiv0vo1_400.gif

[Kalimtari]

Ebem vi u dupe sve.

http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/funny-pictures-morbid-channel-auto-423156.jpeg

:D

[Raikaswinþs]

I met a beautiful Kosovan girl of Albanian stock while on a plane. She was a lovely lass who had spend a good chunk of her childhood in Spain. She said she liked Serbs and other ex-yugos more than Albanians from Albania. She also did not have the best opinion of Romanians. I used to lean towards the Serbian point of view in the Kosovo dispute. After I met here I believe I am now undecided/neutral. A bit of the same with the Crimean case. At least Crimea is somehow strategically important...but all the bloodshed about Kosovo still baffles me. Just a tiny piece of land. It is all about the meaning people wants to give to it I guess (Magnified by NATO vs Eastern Block cold ward redux)

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Illyrian has been my crush since entire forum. My heart becomes weak when I see him, I need to release tension and sparks to fly with just me and him :D

Now your talking, after all you made known publicly being a closet faggot....As I said the best you can is to stick dat beer up in the arse. :biggrin:

[alb0zfinest]

you and me should be doing this:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/a908c64eeda16985ae0cd6cd0c7d3982/tumblr_mtpckfW1wV1rwiv0vo1_400.gif

lmao you remind me so much of arberori

[Geni]

I met a beautiful Kosovan girl of Albanian stock while on a plane. She was a lovely lass who had spend a good chunk of her childhood in Spain. She said she liked Serbs and other ex-yugos more than Albanians from Albania. She also did not have the best opinion of Romanians. I used to lean towards the Serbian point of view in the Kosovo dispute. After I met here I believe I am now undecided/neutral. A bit of the same with the Crimean case. At least Crimea is somehow strategically important...but all the bloodshed about Kosovo still baffles me. Just a tiny piece of land. It is all about the meaning people wants to give to it I guess (Magnified by NATO vs Eastern Block cold ward redux)

I think you met Justme :lol:

[RandoBloom]

Now your talking, after all you made known publicly being a closet faggot....As I said the best you can is to stick dat beer up in the arse. :biggrin:

Ah you act like you never read any of his posts. All of his posts when arguing contain a faggot scene where he fucks a man and that man calls him daddy or whatever.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Ah you act like you never read any of his posts. All of his posts when arguing contain a faggot scene where he fucks a man and that man calls him daddy or whatever.

Now he made for us clearer, apparently got trauma of childhood turned into passion from priests afterwards. ;)

[Kalimtari]

He is Pontid-Alpine.

Few of the Albanian posters here are primarily dinarid.

I'm din-cm or cm-din, I basically look much like you (with one difference; ćuna mi je duža :P J/K )

[RandoBloom]

Now he made for us clearer, apparently got trauma of childhood turned into passion from priests afterwards. ;)

I guess they baptized him anally hahahaha

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I guess they baptized him anally hahahaha

Yep, apparently anal baptizing is some sort of holy religious step thus keeping serb tradition alive according to serbian priests, guess Stefan got alot of it afterwards. :D

[RandoBloom]

Yep, apparently anal baptizing is some sort of holy religious step thus keeping serb tradition alive according to serbian priests, guess Stefan got alot of it afterwards. :D

I think he still keeps geting baptised that way. Explains his brownness :D

[Drawing-slim]

Serbian drunk priest rapes 13 year old girl then threatens her for the sin she has done for being raped, so he must pray for her so god can maybe forgive her. What a nice guy.
This is not a laughing matter but seriously?:laugh:
http://www.balkanweb.com/rajoni/2687/serbi-prifti-perdhunon-e-me-pas-bekon-13-vjecaren-178810.html

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Would be interesting to know where was Stefan baptize, so we can sue those priests for sexually abusing our serbian member thus leaving our poor fella with unstable mental condition to comprehend with reality. :biggrin:

[RandoBloom]

Would be interesting to know where was Stefan baptize, so we can sue those priests for sexually abusing our serbian member thus leaving our poor fella with unstable mental condition to comprehend with reality. :biggrin:

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/644300_10151330823320685_275832346_n.jpg
http://images.kurir-info.rs/slika-900x608/vladika-kacavenda-bojan-jovanovic-serafim-1366580261-300279.jpg
http://images.kurir-info.rs/slika-900x608/vladika-kacavenda-poljubac-foto-oslobodjenje-1366530230-299943.jpg
http://zokstersomething.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kacavenda.png?w=632&h=476

My bet is on Kacavenda's church. He baptized a few famous guys who later on went to talk about anal baptism with him on public TV :laugh:

[Borna]

At least he did not enjoy in having pleasure with 6 year old girls like Mohammad.

[Drawing-slim]

Ok stop degenerating this thread into insults.
Anglojew is a lame troll.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/644300_10151330823320685_275832346_n.jpg

My bet is on Kacavenda's church. He baptized a few famous guys who later on went to talk about anal baptism with him on public TV :D

Nah, my bet goes to Peja patriarchy mentally sick institution where many war criminals still reside while working as priest...Good track for study therefore to close down that sick pervert church with criminals making up biggest chunk of people in it.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Now your talking, after all you made known publicly being a closet faggot....As I said the best you can is to stick dat beer up in the arse. :biggrin:

Shut up honey, and just enjoy your fucking :D You talk to much. For a girl, I only like you making noises when you're moaning.

[Skerdilaid]

Skedi is much older than me and also more Alpinid.

Lol Alpinid

[wvwvw]

I’ve read in various chronicles from and about Kosovo under Islam [that]
Albanians were abducting Serb boys and young girls. It is Bat Y’eor who
brought up the subject in one of her books that got me curious to look
up in more detail. My wife’s parents tell me that it is a public secret
in and around Skopje (Macedonia) to hide your boy from a Muslim
Albanian, especially if he is good looking, because one will lose him. Look up “Islamic Homosexualities” and there is a chapter on Albanians raping little boys. The book can be read via amazon and it it has stunned me.
http://pamelageller.com/2013/01/albanian-muslims-terrorize-serbian-christians.html/

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Shut up honey, and just enjoy your fucking :D You talk to much. For a girl, I only like you making noises when you're moaning.

You can fapp only on priest who baptized your ass, nothing more srbine....Since real fucking involves down here, 5 euro and serb chick gets wet while you waste your toilet papers fapping into imagine yourself in mids of shlongs. :laugh:

[Stefan_Dusan]

I’ve read in various chronicles from and about Kosovo under Islam [that]
Albanians were abducting Serb boys and young girls. It is Bat Y’eor who
brought up the subject in one of her books that got me curious to look
up in more detail. My wife’s parents tell me that it is a public secret
in and around Skopje (Macedonia) to hide your boy from a Muslim
Albanian, especially if he is good looking, because one will lose him. Look up “Islamic Homosexualities” and there is a chapter on Albanians raping little boys. The book can be read via amazon and it it has stunned me.
http://pamelageller.com/2013/01/albanian-muslims-terrorize-serbian-christians.html/

Muslim Albanians of Kosovo put down Serb revolts and tried to disarm Serbians and force Serbians to pay tax. All for the Ottomans. So in Yugoslavia they claim discrimination blah blah ignoring who started it.

[Stefan_Dusan]

You can fapp only on priest who baptized your ass, nothing more srbine....Since real fucking involves down here, 5 euro and serb chick gets wet while you waste your toilet papers fapping into imagine yourself in mids of shlongs. :laugh:

Your mother is welcome to join, I'd personally like to watch you two fuck and after I'd fuck both you. Very kinky stuff :D

[Borna]

Off Topic :

http://www.islam-watch.org/

You can find everything here about Islam.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Your mother is welcome to join, I'd personally like to watch you two fuck and after I'd fuck both you. Very kinky stuff :D

Lost patience much? Keep dreaming for kinky stuffs or realize into practical scenery with your mommy while we Albos enjoy serbian chick fresh skin for merely 5 euros. ;)

Now keep pushing the beer harder till gives Martinovic effect. :laugh:

[Stefan_Dusan]

Lost patience much? Keep dreaming for kinky stuffs or realize into practical scenery with your mommy while we Albos enjoy serbian chick skin for merely 5 euros. ;)

Now keep pushing the beer harder till gives Martinovic effect. :laugh:

There is good Arkan quote I need to share with you: "My Tigers don't need to rape anyone, the women just love them" :laugh: Don't try to act tough with me you silly Albanian you will lose on every level.

[Minesweeper]

So in 21. century Europe, it is a shame to be baptized, according to some people from Bosnia and Albania with strange Middle Eastern names? :D

[alb0zfinest]

Delete the off topic, and lets actually discuss the topic at hand?

[RandoBloom]

So in 21. century Europe, it is a shame to be baptized, according to some people from Bosnia and Albania with strange Middle Eastern names? :D

Anal baptism like in case of Stefan is certainly shameful and produces ill mental state, like his. Read his posts, they are all about fucking men :laugh:

[Stefan_Dusan]

Anal baptism like in case of Stefan is certainly shameful and produces ill mental state, like his. Read his posts, they are all about fucking men :laugh:

Do you consider Illyrian Virgin a man? Because I don't see a man. Neither do I see a man with you ;)

[The Illyrian Warrior]

There is good Arkan quote I need to share with you: "My Tigers don't need to rape anyone, the women just love them" :laugh: Don't try to act tough with me you silly Albanian you will lose on every level.

Last time I've checked Arkan is eating dust while Serbs were kicked out like bitches from Kosova...Can't ask for more. :cool:

Now bow down to the masters, vlach peasant.

[RandoBloom]

Off Topic :

http://www.islam-watch.org/

You can find everything here about Islam.

You can find everything about christianity here
http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html

[Stefan_Dusan]

Last time I've checked Arkan is eating dust while Serbs were kicked out like bitches from Kosova...Can't ask for more. :cool:

Now bow down to the masters, vlach peasant.

We're still in North Kosovo and the Albanians there were kicked out :D And Arkan died like a true man, so respect :D

[alb0zfinest]

Too bad I''m not mod. nonsense like this would have been deleted.

[RandoBloom]

Do you consider Illyrian Virgin a man? Because I don't see a man. Neither do I see a man with you ;)

I certainly wont seek manship aproval from a faggot like yourself

[Stefan_Dusan]

I certainly wont seek manship aproval from a faggot like yourself

I don't ask you. I just enjoy you, your self identification is up to you :laugh:

[Anglojew]

I agree with the Vlach thing, it's true, but how do we know there were no Albanians dwelling in mountains and other elevated areas? Some of them even around lowland settlements as traders/mediators? Sources are scarce and pretty bad in methodology

That's like saying how do we know it wasn't full of Greeks or someone else? It's not proof it's speculation.

[Anglojew]

Stupid kid, Albanians don't have to prove anything, Western historians do that for us. So, go read some books lazy bum!

This seems to be the typical Albanian attitude.

It's strange for three reasons.

1. Western historians don't prove this.

2. It admits the superiority of non-Albanian academics

3. When these same Western historians prove otherwise Albanians claim they're wrong.

[Cleitus]

Western historians never proved you were in Kosovo. That would be retarded especially since most Albanians from Kosovo themselves trace to northern Albania in just 200-300 years!

Go find me a Byzantine account of Albanians in Kosovo, go ahead and try. You won't find one :D
No not from Northern Albania, but from Malesia e Madhe.
http://www.malsia.eu/Malsia_e_Madhe.jpg

[alb0zfinest]

This seems to be the typical Albanian attitude.

It's strange for three reasons.

1. Western historians don't prove this.

2. It admits the superiority of non-Albanian academics

3. When these same Western historians prove otherwise Albanians claim they're wrong.

Did you actually check the thread that i linked proving the Albanian illyrian connection? over 12 sources provided, none of which are Albanian historians.

Again why do you make a claim without any actual proof and then you expect others to prove otherwise............

[Anglojew]

who actually can? Vlachs (mainly) and (partly) Byzantines? Every Slavic speaking nation in the Balkans is based on Vlach genetics and material culture. Ergo, Balkans belongs to Vlachs (which in a way IMHO actually does)?

Seems reasonable but again that's not what Albanians usually claim and doesn't prove their contention (that Kosovo is Albanian and they're Illyrians).

[Stefan_Dusan]

No not from Northern Albania, but from Malesia e Madhe.
http://www.malsia.eu/Malsia_e_Madhe.jpg

Part of Malesia a Madha is in northern Albania, the other in Montenegro. Much more that's not the only region Kosovar Albanians claim to be from. Anyways it's unimportant :D

[The Illyrian Warrior]

We're still in North Kosovo and the Albanians there were kicked out :D And Arkan died like a true man, so respect :D

Try to move out a bit outside of Northern Mitrovica see who kicked whom, pretty much Serbs got penetrated outside of city like in Suhodoll or some parts of Northern Mitrovica, its matter of time with serbs dying population to win over and clean the last garbage left in Kosova.

And what's to respect about Arkan death, when a serb himself eliminated him like a coward. :D

[Anglojew]

the jew wants war between albos and serbs its obvious :D

No Pelé, I want the question answered.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Try to move out a bit outside of Northern Mitrovica see who kicked whom, pretty much Serbs got penetrated outside of city like in Suhodoll or some parts of Northern Mitrovica, its matter of time with this dying population to win over and clean the last garbage left in Kosova.

And what's to respect about Arkan death, when a serb himself eliminated him like a coward. :D

There are still 20,000-50,000 Serbs in southern Kosovo. Don't worry, we made an autonomous region for us that one day will get independence and join Serbia. And how is Arkan's deaths a cowards death :D My coward Albanian, you have 1% the courage of Arkan. You're just some paper pusher who goes to internet to learn history and pretend to be tough guy. Check your avatar ;)

[alb0zfinest]

No Pelé, I want the question answered.

So why do you keep avoiding the proof i provided which is in the thread i linked?

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Seems reasonable but again that's not what Albanians usually claim and doesn't prove their contention (that Kosovo is Albanian and they're Illyrians).

Are you a judge? since you look a complete clown to me...Do we need to provide you with extra proofs or whole this thread was another idiotic attempt to troll over.

[alb0zfinest]

Seems reasonable but again that's not what Albanians usually claim and doesn't prove their contention (that Kosovo is Albanian and they're Illyrians).


More avoiding my answers since you don't want to admit you don't know shit about the topic, meanwhile at the same time making claims.

[Anglojew]

The second question will pretty much settle everything, because if there is an Albanian-illyrian connection (to which there is) then we know who the lands belongs to since the Illyrians were here before the slavs.

That is discussed here to which several sources were provided linking Illyrians with Albanians (these are not Albanian historians btw, none of them)
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?102298-Austrian-scholars-leave-Albania-lost-for-words

P.S: Its not very smart from you to make a big claim, and than say prove to me otherwise. If you want your claim to be taken seriously actually provide proof for what you say. The worst part is you literally know nothing of these issues and you get involved in them so often.

Yes, I'd just like to see them backing up their claims with evidence.

The study you posted and others prove otherwise.

[alb0zfinest]

Yes, I'd just like to see them backing up their claims with evidence.

The study you posted and others prove otherwise.

:picard1:


I included like 10 sources about the Illyrian-Albanain connection. None of them are from Albanian historians btw.



#Source 1
Many lines of reasoning convince linguistic scholars that the Albanian people and language originated with the ancient lllyrians.
1. The national name Albania is the name Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria about A.D 150.

2. The Albanoi territory then centered at Albanopoli, between Durrës and Kruja, the heartland of modern Albania.

3. Four peoples speaking their own languages lived in the Balkans in ancient times: the Greeks in the south, the Macedonians in the center, the Thracians in the east and the lllyrians in the west. Today Albanian is spoken in most of the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.

4. Those few language elements which are known as Illyrian can be explained through the Albanian language, and no other.

5. A linguistic comparison of Albanian with ancient Greek and Latin indicates that Albanian was formed as a language at an earlier period than those other ancient languages.

6. Archeological and historical data witness to the cultural continuity from the lllyrians to the Albanians. Continual contact with other peoples and languages has left its traces in the Albanian vocabulary. Foreign words have been borrowed from Greek, Latin, Slavic and Turkish, yet Albanian has been preserved as a separate language, its grammatical system remaining virtually unchanged.

7. Linguists point out many technical similarities between Illyrian and Albanian words.

8. Borrowings from northern Greek and from Latin incorporated in the Albanian language reflect the well-known political and cultural pressures on Illyrian territory. Linguistic studies indicate that Albanian developed from Illyrian as a distinct language between the fourth and sixth centuries A.D. Thus ancient borrowings of Greek and Latin vocabulary could not have moved directly into Albanian, but into Illyrian, through which these words entered into Albanian. Historical linguists point out that these borrowings from ancient Greek were in the Dorian dialect and penetrated into Illyrian through Corinthian commercial colonies in Corfu, along the Adriatic coast, and through border towns. Latin borrowings came later during the lengthy Roman occupation (NAlb 1986, 3:32). These ancient Greek and Roman contacts occurred precisely in the territory of old Illyria, leaving their traces in the Illyrian language from which they later passed into the Albanian language.

9. Illyrian toponyms, ancient Illyrian place names for cities, rivers and mountains, are preserved today in the Albanian language, and only in Albanian. The names of Balkan villages usually lasted only a few centuries,
for villages were often destroyed altogether during wartime. Cities lasted longer, so their names were usually older. But rivers, lakes and mountains endured through the centuries, and their ancient names usually continued in use. Even new inhabitants usually adopted the old names, just as American colonists adopted many old Indian place names in the United States. Accordingly, Albanian linguists have found more than 300 names of ancient cities like Shkodra, rivers like the Drin and mountains like Tomor which were mentioned by ancient Greek and Roman geographers or historians and which are still in use in Albania. Scholars show how the rules of historical phonetics explain any changes of spelling over the centuries from Illyrian to Albanian, as Scupi to Shkup, Scodra to Shkodra, Lissus to Lezha, Durrachium to Durrës, Drinus to Drin, Mathis to Mat. Certainly the Albanian language is derived from the Illyrian (Cabej 1985, 42-62).

10. Illyrian proper names continue in use among present-day Albanians. Many of the individual Illyrian names of persons were preserved on epitaphs and inscriptions on coins. Then the names of other people like the Illyrian rulers Agron and Teuta were mentioned by Greek or Roman historians. The Albanian scholar Mahri Domi claims to have identified 800 of these (Liria 15 October 1982; 1 November 1983).

11. The numerous marine terms for sea plants and animals in the Albanian language show that these people lived along the coast on what would correspond with Illyrian territory (AT 1983, 1:44-45).

12. Then there are other words in Albanian which Greek or Roman writers long ago explicitly identified as Illyrian in origin.
Down through the centuries many once great peoples have been either destroyed or assimilated by others so as to disappear altogether. But the Illyrian people with their distinctive dress, music, customs and especially their language have persisted in their shrinking territory along the western shore of the Balkan Peninsula. With no record or tradition even hinting at their extermination or assimilation or migration, one can only assume their unbroken historical continuity. There seems to be no question but that the present-day Albanians are the historically uninterrupted descendants of the lllyrians who were known to have inhabited that same region in early Greek and Roman times."
--The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present, Edwin E. Jacques – 1995, pg.37 – 38

#Source 2
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7505/kladasuprising2or0.png
#Source 3
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105558&stc=1&d=1213141840

#Source 4
"I would now like to turn to the actual history of the Albanians and of the country they inhabit. They are the descendents of the ancient Illyrians, whereas their neighbours, the Vlachs, whose ancient history I will deal with later, are the children of the Thracians. I will try to prove these statements as best I can."

1774
Johann Thunmann:
On the History and Language of the Albanians and Vlachs

#Source 5
The Albanians, or more accurately their ancestors the Illyrians, "appeared" in the western Balkans around 1200 BC (or BCE, Before Christian Era). More precisely, we can say that around 1200 BC the archaeological record shows a "discontinuity," a significant break in material culture during a short span of time. Objects left in graves and the structure of grave sites changed. Nineteenth century writers explained this (and similar events, especially among the Greeks) by describing supposed waves of Indo-European invaders: men, women and children travelling in wagons out of the steppes, driving their herds before them and wiping out the existing population. Modern scholars argue for scenarios with less drama. Alterations in burials can mean a total change in population, but they can also mean that an existing population adopted new customs, with or without the arrival of large numbers of new people. For example, future archaelogists should not see the sudden appearance of Japanese VCRs in late twentieth century American landfills as evidence of migration or invasion, but only of trade and cultural contact. The same thing is true in Balkan prehistory. In 1200 BC, people in the Western Balkans took up the cultural practices that we call "Illyrian". Some new people probably entered the area, and some of the old population probably remained.

After 1200 BC, classical Greek records describe the Illyrians as a non-Greek people to the north and west. The Illyrians left no "historic" or written records of their own. We have to use linguistic and archaeological evidence to trace their story. Based on this evidence, scholars will say that the Illyrians inhabited the region which today makes up Albania and the former Yugoslavia. Their descendants have remained in the mountains of present-day Albania continuously since 1200 BC: today's Albanians are in fact linked to the Illyrians. In the rest of former Illyria, other peoples took their place.

Albanian is an Indo-European language, but one without relatives; it is believed to be the only surviving language descended from ancient Illyrian. The linguistic evidence is not simple. Modern Albanian is obviously very different from the language of its neighbors, but we have nothing written in the language before the year 1555 of the Christian era, unlike Greek and the Slavic languages, for which we have classical and/or medieval writings dating back to a very early period. Direct linguistic descent is easy to trace in those kinds of records, but not for Illyrian/Albanian. The linguistic evidence here relies on fields like "onomastics", the study of place names and the names for everyday objects, and complex reasoning from meagre facts.

Archaeology is the second source for Albanian prehistory. Scholars can trace a continuous evolution of burial goods, ornamentation on costumes, and cultural practices (deduced from material remains) from 1200 BC forward to the historic Middle Ages. Based on that, and on the lack of recorded migration to the area by other groups, scholars believe the Illyrians became the modern Albanians.

The Albanians today number about five million. Three and a half million live within Albania, another 1.7 million in the adjacent Kosovo region of Serbia, and half a million in the new state known as the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia." Historically most Albanians have been Muslim since the time of the Ottoman conquest, with Eastern Orthodox and smaller Catholic minorities. The Kosovo region is a good example of competing historical claims to Balkan lands. Kosovo is a region of great cultural significance for Serbia, the site of important medieval events. At the same time, it has a majority Albanian population today, and the Illyrian evidence says that proto-Albanians were there long before the Serbs. Both nations claim it. In cases like this, scholarship is mixed with nationalist politics: that is why controversy accompanies history here."
-- Twenty-Five Lectures on Modern Balkan History
Lecture 1: Geography and ethnic geography of the Balkans to 1500

#source 6
"The inhabitants, estimated at about a million, form a peculiar people, the Albanians or Arnauts; they call themselves Skyptears. They are descendants of the ancient Illyrians"
===The Brisbane Courier (Qld. : 1864-1933), Wednesday 23 October 1878, page 3

#Source 7

"but the interior and upper regions are peopled by barbarians … (among whom) are the Albanians, an Illyrian race"
--Donald M. Nicol, “The Despotate of Epiros (1267 -1479), p. 192-3

#Source 9
"The Albanians are autochthonous because flow directly from the Illyrians, as do the people of Macedonia and Epirus, all stemming from prehistoric Pelasgians”.
-- from Albanische Studien by von Hahn

#source 10
"However, we note that linguistic heritage from the ancient languages ​​of the Balkans, such as the Illyrians and Thracians, are closely linked to the Albanian language"
--Reallexikon der Vorgeschichte by Norbert joki


Source # 11
"Thus the Illyrians and Dacians were able to retreat into the mountains at the time of the Slavic invasions and reatin their identities as Albanians and Vlachs."
-THE EARLY MEDIEVAL BALKANS BY John Van Antwerp Fine

Source #12
"The native Illyrians and Thracians of the occupied regions retired into the mountains, where they remained unnoticed till the eleventh century, when they emerged as Albanians and Vlachs"
-ETHNIC CHANGES IN THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE IN THE SEVENTH CENTURY
PETER CHARANIS

Source # 13
"The country is ethnically very homogenous: 98 percent ot its inhabitants are ethnic Albanians, descended from the Illyrian and Thracian tribes"
ALBANIA by Gloria La Cava, Raffaella Nanetii, pg 20

[Stefan_Dusan]

More avoiding my answers since you don't want to admit you don't know shit about the topic, meanwhile at the same time making claims.

No one knows if the Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian language. There is some scholarly evidence for it. As there is evidence against it. So there is 'proof' in correct sense. Just educated guesses and arguments if this make sense. I personally think Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian that was heavy Romanized.

[wvwvw]

Yes, I'd just like to see them backing up their claims with evidence.

The study you posted and others prove otherwise.

To quote dienekes from his blog:

"Why? If they were there in the Neolithic, they were also there in the Illyrian period, where they might have adopted the language. "

- First of all, we don't know where "they" were in the Neolithic, and we certainly don't know that the present-day Albanians were in present-day Albania during the Illyrian period.

Second, if their language turned out to be of Illyrian origin (doubtful), it would be a reasonable conclusion that they indeed ADOPTED the language, as the Illyrians were reckoned to be one of the northern nations, which doesn't harmonize very well with the predominantly Southern gene pool of present-day Albanians.

[Anglojew]

More retarded comment from you, the red djamadan is not worn in Rugova as I told Skerdi. You wear a white/beige djamadan there! As for the head scarf, it's Ottoman as long as the arctic night, butthurt Albo :laugh:

http://www.haircoverings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/head-scarf.jpg

While I'm here you won't steal our traditions and get away with it.

The Ottomans obviously got it from the Berbers

http://st.depositphotos.com/1605004/2991/i/950/depositphotos_29918323-Berber-man-in-the-Sahara-desert.jpg

[The Illyrian Warrior]

There are still 20,000-50,000 Serbs in southern Kosovo. Don't worry, we made an autonomous region for us that one day will get independence and join Serbia. And how is Arkan's deaths a cowards death :D My coward Albanian, you have 1% the courage of Arkan. You're just some paper pusher who goes to internet to learn history and pretend to be tough guy. Check your avatar ;)

Just to tell you a story about Arkan since you get orgasm from random criminals, before Milosevic took over the power in ex-Yugoslavia there is a man exactly from Mitrovica whom fought for KLA army which almost Mitrovica people heard about the man who used to beat the shit out of Arkan however this case was somewhere in mids 80' when he opportunity to meet him personally in army service since at that time every citizen of Yugoslavia had obligation...So please spare us from more BS about manhood of serbs or Arkan since we know how capable you are into one-n-one fighting. ;)

[Stefan_Dusan]

The Ottomans obviously got it from the Berbers

Ottoman Mercs which Albanians made up a lot would have been in berber areas fighting to expand territory, they might have picked this up and taken back to Balkan.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Just to tell you a story about Arkan since you get orgasm from random criminals, before Milosevic took over the power in ex-Yugoslavia there is a man exactly from Mitrovica whom fought for KLA army which almost Mitrovica people heard about the man who used to beat the shit out of Arkan however this case was somewhere in mids 80' when he opportunity to meet him personally in army service since at that time every citizen of Yugoslavia had obligation...So please spare us from more BS about manhood of serbs or Arkan since we know how capable you are into one-n-one fighting. ;)

Arkan was never in Mitrovica before Milosevic, he was in western Europe and before that Belgrade. I know you want Albanians to be tough guys but in reality we don't view you that way.

[alb0zfinest]

To quote dienekes from his blog:

"Why? If they were there in the Neolithic, they were also there in the Illyrian period, where they might have adopted the language. "

- First of all, we don't know where "they" were in the Neolithic, and we certainly don't know that the present-day Albanians were in present-day Albania during the Illyrian period.

Second, if their language turned out to be of Illyrian origin (doubtful), it would be a reasonable conclusion that they indeed ADOPTED the language, as the Illyrians were reckoned to be one of the northern nations, which doesn't harmonize very well with the predominantly Southern gene pool of present-day Albanians.
:picard1:
Illyria was a vast land, alot of it was in the south, to say that they had northern genes is quite idiotic because they don't actually have dna from Illyrian times. What you have is historical refrences, toponyms, some words and most of it can be explained by Albanian. Besides that the Albanians lived in the same area where the illyrian tribe albanoi lived, and since there were no major mass migrations to Albania, means the people were already there. Even the names of cities many are the same as they were in the illyrian times.

[Kalimtari]

No one knows if the Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian language. There is some scholarly evidence for it. As there is evidence against it. So there is 'proof' in correct sense. Just educated guesses and arguments if this make sense. I personally think Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian that was heavy Romanized.

that's a plausible option Watch this video (which you probably won't :D ) :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uzrUEVwfo8

[alb0zfinest]

No one knows if the Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian language. There is some scholarly evidence for it. As there is evidence against it. So there is 'proof' in correct sense. Just educated guesses and arguments if this make sense. I personally think Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian that was heavy Romanized.

There is very little evidence against it, alot of which can be disproven.
The evidence for

1. The national name Albania is the name Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria about A.D 150.

2. The Albanoi territory then centered at Albanopoli, between Durrës and Kruja, the heartland of modern Albania.

3. Four peoples speaking their own languages lived in the Balkans in ancient times: the Greeks in the south, the Macedonians in the center, the Thracians in the east and the lllyrians in the west. Today Albanian is spoken in most of the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.

4. Those few language elements which are known as Illyrian can be explained through the Albanian language, and no other.

5. A linguistic comparison of Albanian with ancient Greek and Latin indicates that Albanian was formed as a language at an earlier period than those other ancient languages.

6. Archeological and historical data witness to the cultural continuity from the lllyrians to the Albanians. Continual contact with other peoples and languages has left its traces in the Albanian vocabulary. Foreign words have been borrowed from Greek, Latin, Slavic and Turkish, yet Albanian has been preserved as a separate language, its grammatical system remaining virtually unchanged.

7. Linguists point out many technical similarities between Illyrian and Albanian words.

8. Borrowings from northern Greek and from Latin incorporated in the Albanian language reflect the well-known political and cultural pressures on Illyrian territory. Linguistic studies indicate that Albanian developed from Illyrian as a distinct language between the fourth and sixth centuries A.D. Thus ancient borrowings of Greek and Latin vocabulary could not have moved directly into Albanian, but into Illyrian, through which these words entered into Albanian. Historical linguists point out that these borrowings from ancient Greek were in the Dorian dialect and penetrated into Illyrian through Corinthian commercial colonies in Corfu, along the Adriatic coast, and through border towns. Latin borrowings came later during the lengthy Roman occupation (NAlb 1986, 3:32). These ancient Greek and Roman contacts occurred precisely in the territory of old Illyria, leaving their traces in the Illyrian language from which they later passed into the Albanian language.

9. Illyrian toponyms, ancient Illyrian place names for cities, rivers and mountains, are preserved today in the Albanian language, and only in Albanian. The names of Balkan villages usually lasted only a few centuries,
for villages were often destroyed altogether during wartime. Cities lasted longer, so their names were usually older. But rivers, lakes and mountains endured through the centuries, and their ancient names usually continued in use. Even new inhabitants usually adopted the old names, just as American colonists adopted many old Indian place names in the United States. Accordingly, Albanian linguists have found more than 300 names of ancient cities like Shkodra, rivers like the Drin and mountains like Tomor which were mentioned by ancient Greek and Roman geographers or historians and which are still in use in Albania. Scholars show how the rules of historical phonetics explain any changes of spelling over the centuries from Illyrian to Albanian, as Scupi to Shkup, Scodra to Shkodra, Lissus to Lezha, Durrachium to Durrës, Drinus to Drin, Mathis to Mat. Certainly the Albanian language is derived from the Illyrian (Cabej 1985, 42-62).

10. Illyrian proper names continue in use among present-day Albanians. Many of the individual Illyrian names of persons were preserved on epitaphs and inscriptions on coins. Then the names of other people like the Illyrian rulers Agron and Teuta were mentioned by Greek or Roman historians. The Albanian scholar Mahri Domi claims to have identified 800 of these (Liria 15 October 1982; 1 November 1983).

11. The numerous marine terms for sea plants and animals in the Albanian language show that these people lived along the coast on what would correspond with Illyrian territory (AT 1983, 1:44-45).

12. Then there are other words in Albanian which Greek or Roman writers long ago explicitly identified as Illyrian in origin.
Down through the centuries many once great peoples have been either destroyed or assimilated by others so as to disappear altogether. But the Illyrian people with their distinctive dress, music, customs and especially their language have persisted in their shrinking territory along the western shore of the Balkan Peninsula. With no record or tradition even hinting at their extermination or assimilation or migration, one can only assume their unbroken historical continuity. There seems to be no question but that the present-day Albanians are the historically uninterrupted descendants of the lllyrians who were known to have inhabited that same region in early Greek and Roman times."







Well the Illyrians were romanized so what you say makes sense. But I'm not so sure i would use the word heavily.

[Stefan_Dusan]

I said I think your language is Illyrian descendent with Romance influx relax :D I just said no one knows for sure as for your reason:



1. The national name Albania is the name Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria about A.D 150.

This would be more credible if Albanians call themselves Albanoi. But you don't, you call yourself Sqipetars, Sqipteria etc. The name Albanoi denoted a region that outsiders continued to call you, but the name is not organic to you.

[wvwvw]

John Wilkes proves albanians are not illyrians
http://books.google.be/books...

http://books.google.be/books?id=iOWS...esult&resnum=1

He talks about late arrival of albanians, which were first heard during 11th century.

[LightHouse89]

No one knows if the Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian language. There is some scholarly evidence for it. As there is evidence against it. So there is 'proof' in correct sense. Just educated guesses and arguments if this make sense. I personally think Albanian language is descendent of Illyrian that was heavy Romanized.

I would agree with this because when the Romans incorporated Albania into their Empire, the same with France and Spain they influenced the languages. I do not know the impact of Latin on Albanian but Albanian is not classified as being purely a latin language so its possible it retained many of its originality.

[Stefan_Dusan]

I would agree with this because when the Romans incorporated Albania into their Empire, the same with France and Spain they influenced the languages. I do not know the impact of Latin on Albanian but Albanian is not classified as being purely a latin language so its possible it retained many of its originality.

I read something once that grammatically, Albanian is closest to Balto-Slav. I need to find some source on this, but I remember being shocked on this. But a lot Albanians learn Serbian very easily so maybe there is connection :D

[Skerdilaid]

A lot of toilet cleaner historians in this thread Anglokike, Stefan Dushan, Raine, and the bla bla bla. Go clean a toilet or something and stop acting like historians in here, retards!

[Anglojew]

Ok stop degenerating this thread into insults.
Anglojew is a lame troll.

I'm the one asking reasonable questions whereas you're the one name-calling.

13 pages so far and no one has proved either contention. Why can't back up your claims with evidence.

There's nothing trollish about this request.

[Stefan_Dusan]

A lot of toilet cleaner historians in this thread Anglokike, Stefan Dushan, Raine, and the bla bla bla. Go clean a toilet or something and stop acting like historians in here, retards!

I don't clean toilets, I'm a lazy south slav. That's for your "hard working" Albanian grunts here in USA :D

[Kalimtari]

I’ve read in various chronicles from and about Kosovo under Islam [that]
Albanians were abducting Serb boys and young girls. It is Bat Y’eor who
brought up the subject in one of her books that got me curious to look
up in more detail. My wife’s parents tell me that it is a public secret
in and around Skopje (Macedonia) to hide your boy from a Muslim
Albanian, especially if he is good looking, because one will lose him. Look up “Islamic Homosexualities” and there is a chapter on Albanians raping little boys. The book can be read via amazon and it it has stunned me.
http://pamelageller.com/2013/01/albanian-muslims-terrorize-serbian-christians.html/

http://colorfully.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/the-perfect-crime-i-steal-your-heart-you-steal-mine-facebook-cover.jpg

[ALSh]

It seems the jew got what he wanted. Congratulation :clap:

[Hayalet]

The Ottomans obviously got it from the Berbers

http://st.depositphotos.com/1605004/2991/i/950/depositphotos_29918323-Berber-man-in-the-Sahara-desert.jpg
The Ottomans never had it. Why are people so dense.

[Anglojew]

Did you actually check the thread that i linked proving the Albanian illyrian connection? over 12 sources provided, none of which are Albanian historians.

Again why do you make a claim without any actual proof and then you expect others to prove otherwise............

What are you taking about? That article is about Austrian linguists leaving Albania because they couldn't find a connection between Albanian and Illyrian.

[Hayalet]

And yeah, if Albanian were a direct descendent of Illyrian, it would have been found out by now. They may still have a common paleo-Balkan origin though.

[Kalimtari]

I said I think your language is Illyrian descendent with Romance influx relax :D I just said no one knows for sure as for your reason:



This would be more credible if Albanians call themselves Albanoi. But you don't, you call yourself Sqipetars, Sqipteria etc. The name Albanoi denoted a region that outsiders continued to call you, but the name is not organic to you.

Shqipetar is a relatively new term. We used to call ourselves Arbenor, Arben/Arbenia was the old name for Albania (hence Arbereshi/Arbeneshi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Arbanon

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Principality_of_Arb%C3%ABr_%2811th-12th_century_AD%29.png

[Kalimtari]

And yeah, if Albanian were a direct descendent of Illyrian, it would have been found out by now. They may still have a common paleo-Balkan origin though.

so, state the proofs for present Celtic speaking people being descendents of ancient Celts. Where are their written records?

[alb0zfinest]

I said I think your language is Illyrian descendent with Romance influx relax :D I just said no one knows for sure as for your reason:



This would be more credible if Albanians call themselves Albanoi. But you don't, you call yourself Sqipetars, Sqipteria etc. The name Albanoi denoted a region that outsiders continued to call you, but the name is not organic to you.

"In the course of several centuries, under the impact of Roman, Byzantine, and
Slavic cultures, the tribes of southern Illyria underwent a transformation, and a
transition occurred from the old Illyrian population to a new Albanian one. As a
consequence, from the 8th to the 11th century, the name Illyria gradually gave
way to the name, first mentioned in the 2nd century AD by the geographer
Ptolemy of Alexandria, of the Albanoi tribe, which inhabited what is now
central Albania. From a single tribe the name spread to include the rest of the
country as Arbri and, finally, Albania. The genesis of Albanian nationality
apparently occurred at this time as the Albanian people became aware that
they shared a common territory, name, language, and cultural heritage."
http://pbosnia.kentlaw.edu/resources/history/albania/albhist.htm


So we did call ourselves Albanian, till the time of skanderbeg where the term shqiponjë (eagle), which, according to Albanian folk etymology, denoted a bird totem dating from the times of Skanderbeg, as displayed on the Albanian flag, refered to ourselves as shqiptars.


And i know what you said, i just said you should not use the word heavily (at the end of the comment).

[Anglojew]

Are you a judge? since you look a complete clown to me...Do we need to provide you with extra proofs or whole this thread was another idiotic attempt to troll over.

Providing any proof would be great. The best an Albanian has posted is a link to an article stating the exact opposite he obviously didn't understand.

[Anglojew]

"In the course of several centuries, under the impact of Roman, Byzantine, and
Slavic cultures, the tribes of southern Illyria underwent a transformation, and a
transition occurred from the old Illyrian population to a new Albanian one. As a
consequence, from the 8th to the 11th century, the name Illyria gradually gave
way to the name, first mentioned in the 2nd century AD by the geographer
Ptolemy of Alexandria, of the Albanoi tribe, which inhabited what is now
central Albania. From a single tribe the name spread to include the rest of the
country as Arbri and, finally, Albania. The genesis of Albanian nationality
apparently occurred at this time as the Albanian people became aware that
they shared a common territory, name, language, and cultural heritage."
http://pbosnia.kentlaw.edu/resources/history/albania/albhist.htm


So we did call ourselves Albanian, till the time of skanderbeg where the term shqiponjë (eagle), which, according to Albanian folk etymology, denoted a bird totem dating from the times of Skanderbeg, as displayed on the Albanian flag, refered to ourselves as shqiptars.


And i know what you said, i just said you should not use the word heavily (at the end of the comment).

Albanian is a Latin term. Please provide evidence that tribe and modern Albanians are connected?

[Anglojew]

More avoiding my answers since you don't want to admit you don't know shit about the topic, meanwhile at the same time making claims.

Not avoiding anything. I don't even know what you mean. I'm agreeing with an Albanian in that response anyway.

[alb0zfinest]

I'm the one asking reasonable questions whereas you're the one name-calling.

13 pages so far and no one has proved either contention. Why can't back up your claims with evidence.

There's nothing trollish about this request.

:picard1:
I provided 13 sources proving the Albanian illyrian connection, and you say we haven't back our claims with evidence

:picard1:


I included like 10 sources about the Illyrian-Albanain connection. None of them are from Albanian historians btw.



#Source 1
Many lines of reasoning convince linguistic scholars that the Albanian people and language originated with the ancient lllyrians.
1. The national name Albania is the name Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria about A.D 150.

2. The Albanoi territory then centered at Albanopoli, between Durrës and Kruja, the heartland of modern Albania.

3. Four peoples speaking their own languages lived in the Balkans in ancient times: the Greeks in the south, the Macedonians in the center, the Thracians in the east and the lllyrians in the west. Today Albanian is spoken in most of the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.

4. Those few language elements which are known as Illyrian can be explained through the Albanian language, and no other.

5. A linguistic comparison of Albanian with ancient Greek and Latin indicates that Albanian was formed as a language at an earlier period than those other ancient languages.

6. Archeological and historical data witness to the cultural continuity from the lllyrians to the Albanians. Continual contact with other peoples and languages has left its traces in the Albanian vocabulary. Foreign words have been borrowed from Greek, Latin, Slavic and Turkish, yet Albanian has been preserved as a separate language, its grammatical system remaining virtually unchanged.

7. Linguists point out many technical similarities between Illyrian and Albanian words.

8. Borrowings from northern Greek and from Latin incorporated in the Albanian language reflect the well-known political and cultural pressures on Illyrian territory. Linguistic studies indicate that Albanian developed from Illyrian as a distinct language between the fourth and sixth centuries A.D. Thus ancient borrowings of Greek and Latin vocabulary could not have moved directly into Albanian, but into Illyrian, through which these words entered into Albanian. Historical linguists point out that these borrowings from ancient Greek were in the Dorian dialect and penetrated into Illyrian through Corinthian commercial colonies in Corfu, along the Adriatic coast, and through border towns. Latin borrowings came later during the lengthy Roman occupation (NAlb 1986, 3:32). These ancient Greek and Roman contacts occurred precisely in the territory of old Illyria, leaving their traces in the Illyrian language from which they later passed into the Albanian language.

9. Illyrian toponyms, ancient Illyrian place names for cities, rivers and mountains, are preserved today in the Albanian language, and only in Albanian. The names of Balkan villages usually lasted only a few centuries,
for villages were often destroyed altogether during wartime. Cities lasted longer, so their names were usually older. But rivers, lakes and mountains endured through the centuries, and their ancient names usually continued in use. Even new inhabitants usually adopted the old names, just as American colonists adopted many old Indian place names in the United States. Accordingly, Albanian linguists have found more than 300 names of ancient cities like Shkodra, rivers like the Drin and mountains like Tomor which were mentioned by ancient Greek and Roman geographers or historians and which are still in use in Albania. Scholars show how the rules of historical phonetics explain any changes of spelling over the centuries from Illyrian to Albanian, as Scupi to Shkup, Scodra to Shkodra, Lissus to Lezha, Durrachium to Durrës, Drinus to Drin, Mathis to Mat. Certainly the Albanian language is derived from the Illyrian (Cabej 1985, 42-62).

10. Illyrian proper names continue in use among present-day Albanians. Many of the individual Illyrian names of persons were preserved on epitaphs and inscriptions on coins. Then the names of other people like the Illyrian rulers Agron and Teuta were mentioned by Greek or Roman historians. The Albanian scholar Mahri Domi claims to have identified 800 of these (Liria 15 October 1982; 1 November 1983).

11. The numerous marine terms for sea plants and animals in the Albanian language show that these people lived along the coast on what would correspond with Illyrian territory (AT 1983, 1:44-45).

12. Then there are other words in Albanian which Greek or Roman writers long ago explicitly identified as Illyrian in origin.
Down through the centuries many once great peoples have been either destroyed or assimilated by others so as to disappear altogether. But the Illyrian people with their distinctive dress, music, customs and especially their language have persisted in their shrinking territory along the western shore of the Balkan Peninsula. With no record or tradition even hinting at their extermination or assimilation or migration, one can only assume their unbroken historical continuity. There seems to be no question but that the present-day Albanians are the historically uninterrupted descendants of the lllyrians who were known to have inhabited that same region in early Greek and Roman times."
--The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present, Edwin E. Jacques – 1995, pg.37 – 38

#Source 2
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7505/kladasuprising2or0.png
#Source 3
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105558&stc=1&d=1213141840

#Source 4
"I would now like to turn to the actual history of the Albanians and of the country they inhabit. They are the descendents of the ancient Illyrians, whereas their neighbours, the Vlachs, whose ancient history I will deal with later, are the children of the Thracians. I will try to prove these statements as best I can."

1774
Johann Thunmann:
On the History and Language of the Albanians and Vlachs

#Source 5
The Albanians, or more accurately their ancestors the Illyrians, "appeared" in the western Balkans around 1200 BC (or BCE, Before Christian Era). More precisely, we can say that around 1200 BC the archaeological record shows a "discontinuity," a significant break in material culture during a short span of time. Objects left in graves and the structure of grave sites changed. Nineteenth century writers explained this (and similar events, especially among the Greeks) by describing supposed waves of Indo-European invaders: men, women and children travelling in wagons out of the steppes, driving their herds before them and wiping out the existing population. Modern scholars argue for scenarios with less drama. Alterations in burials can mean a total change in population, but they can also mean that an existing population adopted new customs, with or without the arrival of large numbers of new people. For example, future archaelogists should not see the sudden appearance of Japanese VCRs in late twentieth century American landfills as evidence of migration or invasion, but only of trade and cultural contact. The same thing is true in Balkan prehistory. In 1200 BC, people in the Western Balkans took up the cultural practices that we call "Illyrian". Some new people probably entered the area, and some of the old population probably remained.

After 1200 BC, classical Greek records describe the Illyrians as a non-Greek people to the north and west. The Illyrians left no "historic" or written records of their own. We have to use linguistic and archaeological evidence to trace their story. Based on this evidence, scholars will say that the Illyrians inhabited the region which today makes up Albania and the former Yugoslavia. Their descendants have remained in the mountains of present-day Albania continuously since 1200 BC: today's Albanians are in fact linked to the Illyrians. In the rest of former Illyria, other peoples took their place.

Albanian is an Indo-European language, but one without relatives; it is believed to be the only surviving language descended from ancient Illyrian. The linguistic evidence is not simple. Modern Albanian is obviously very different from the language of its neighbors, but we have nothing written in the language before the year 1555 of the Christian era, unlike Greek and the Slavic languages, for which we have classical and/or medieval writings dating back to a very early period. Direct linguistic descent is easy to trace in those kinds of records, but not for Illyrian/Albanian. The linguistic evidence here relies on fields like "onomastics", the study of place names and the names for everyday objects, and complex reasoning from meagre facts.

Archaeology is the second source for Albanian prehistory. Scholars can trace a continuous evolution of burial goods, ornamentation on costumes, and cultural practices (deduced from material remains) from 1200 BC forward to the historic Middle Ages. Based on that, and on the lack of recorded migration to the area by other groups, scholars believe the Illyrians became the modern Albanians.

The Albanians today number about five million. Three and a half million live within Albania, another 1.7 million in the adjacent Kosovo region of Serbia, and half a million in the new state known as the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia." Historically most Albanians have been Muslim since the time of the Ottoman conquest, with Eastern Orthodox and smaller Catholic minorities. The Kosovo region is a good example of competing historical claims to Balkan lands. Kosovo is a region of great cultural significance for Serbia, the site of important medieval events. At the same time, it has a majority Albanian population today, and the Illyrian evidence says that proto-Albanians were there long before the Serbs. Both nations claim it. In cases like this, scholarship is mixed with nationalist politics: that is why controversy accompanies history here."
-- Twenty-Five Lectures on Modern Balkan History
Lecture 1: Geography and ethnic geography of the Balkans to 1500

#source 6
"The inhabitants, estimated at about a million, form a peculiar people, the Albanians or Arnauts; they call themselves Skyptears. They are descendants of the ancient Illyrians"
===The Brisbane Courier (Qld. : 1864-1933), Wednesday 23 October 1878, page 3

#Source 7

"but the interior and upper regions are peopled by barbarians … (among whom) are the Albanians, an Illyrian race"
--Donald M. Nicol, “The Despotate of Epiros (1267 -1479), p. 192-3

#Source 9
"The Albanians are autochthonous because flow directly from the Illyrians, as do the people of Macedonia and Epirus, all stemming from prehistoric Pelasgians”.
-- from Albanische Studien by von Hahn

#source 10
"However, we note that linguistic heritage from the ancient languages ​​of the Balkans, such as the Illyrians and Thracians, are closely linked to the Albanian language"
--Reallexikon der Vorgeschichte by Norbert joki


Source # 11
"Thus the Illyrians and Dacians were able to retreat into the mountains at the time of the Slavic invasions and reatin their identities as Albanians and Vlachs."
-THE EARLY MEDIEVAL BALKANS BY John Van Antwerp Fine

Source #12
"The native Illyrians and Thracians of the occupied regions retired into the mountains, where they remained unnoticed till the eleventh century, when they emerged as Albanians and Vlachs"
-ETHNIC CHANGES IN THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE IN THE SEVENTH CENTURY
PETER CHARANIS

Source # 13
"The country is ethnically very homogenous: 98 percent ot its inhabitants are ethnic Albanians, descended from the Illyrian and Thracian tribes"
ALBANIA by Gloria La Cava, Raffaella Nanetii, pg 20

[Anglojew]

:picard1:

I really appreciate your post as it's the only attempt to answer the question but could you be more specific. For instance;


Many lines of reasoning convince linguistic scholars that the Albanian people and language originated with the ancient lllyrians.
1. The national name Albania is the name Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria about A.D 150.

This doesn't mention which lines of reasoning convince linguists of this.


2. The Albanoi territory then centered at Albanopoli, between Durrës and Kruja, the heartland of modern Albania.

This seems to fall into the same argument made by contemporary Bulgarian/Slavic Macedonians to argue they're somehow related to ancient Macedonians. It's not evidence. Were ancient Britians mainly Germanic because today's England is?


Wikipedia correctly states;


Ptolemy himself makes no hint of their true ethnic identification, and he does not clarify whether the citizens of Albanopolis were Illyrians, Macedonians or Roman colonists from Italian Alba outside Rome upon the Alban Hills, all of which are distinct possibilities.

Their identification and connection with the modern nation of the Albanians is highly disputed; it is speculated that they are related to the modern Albanians, but it is not at all certain


They're not even found on most lists of ancient Illyrians;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs.png


3. Four peoples speaking their own languages lived in the Balkans in ancient times: the Greeks in the south, the Macedonians in the center, the Thracians in the east and the lllyrians in the west. Today Albanian is spoken in most of the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.

This statement isn't even true as their were Latin, Paeonians and Celtic speakers in the region then but besides this it has no baring on today. It's like saying because there were two languages in ancient Britain (Pictish and Celtic) then because there's two languages in todays Britain (Celtic and English) then English is Pictish. It's not a logical argument.


4. Those few language elements which are known as Illyrian can be explained through the Albanian language, and no other.


Again, no proof.



5. A linguistic comparison of Albanian with ancient Greek and Latin indicates that Albanian was formed as a language at an earlier period than those other ancient languages.

Again, no proof.


6. Archeological and historical data witness to the cultural continuity from the lllyrians to the Albanians. Continual contact with other peoples and languages has left its traces in the Albanian vocabulary. Foreign words have been borrowed from Greek, Latin, Slavic and Turkish, yet Albanian has been preserved as a separate language, its grammatical system remaining virtually unchanged.

Again, no proof. Which data?


7. Linguists point out many technical similarities between Illyrian and Albanian words.

Again, no proof. Just hearsay.


8. Borrowings from northern Greek and from Latin incorporated in the Albanian language reflect the well-known political and cultural pressures on Illyrian territory. Linguistic studies indicate that Albanian developed from Illyrian as a distinct language between the fourth and sixth centuries A.D. Thus ancient borrowings of Greek and Latin vocabulary could not have moved directly into Albanian, but into Illyrian, through which these words entered into Albanian. Historical linguists point out that these borrowings from ancient Greek were in the Dorian dialect and penetrated into Illyrian through Corinthian commercial colonies in Corfu, along the Adriatic coast, and through border towns. Latin borrowings came later during the lengthy Roman occupation (NAlb 1986, 3:32). These ancient Greek and Roman contacts occurred precisely in the territory of old Illyria, leaving their traces in the Illyrian language from which they later passed into the Albanian language.

Again, this isn't proof. Which borrowings? Which studies? I would love to believe you but this isn't evidence.


9. Illyrian toponyms, ancient Illyrian place names for cities, rivers and mountains, are preserved today in the Albanian language, and only in Albanian. The names of Balkan villages usually lasted only a few centuries,
for villages were often destroyed altogether during wartime. Cities lasted longer, so their names were usually older. But rivers, lakes and mountains endured through the centuries, and their ancient names usually continued in use. Even new inhabitants usually adopted the old names, just as American colonists adopted many old Indian place names in the United States. Accordingly, Albanian linguists have found more than 300 names of ancient cities like Shkodra, rivers like the Drin and mountains like Tomor which were mentioned by ancient Greek and Roman geographers or historians and which are still in use in Albania. Scholars show how the rules of historical phonetics explain any changes of spelling over the centuries from Illyrian to Albanian, as Scupi to Shkup, Scodra to Shkodra, Lissus to Lezha, Durrachium to Durrës, Drinus to Drin, Mathis to Mat. Certainly the Albanian language is derived from the Illyrian (Cabej 1985, 42-62).

Best evidence yet. Only one with specific examples but problematic. The Thames river is a Celtic name. It doesn't make English Celts because they use a Celtic name.


10. Illyrian proper names continue in use among present-day Albanians. Many of the individual Illyrian names of persons were preserved on epitaphs and inscriptions on coins. Then the names of other people like the Illyrian rulers Agron and Teuta were mentioned by Greek or Roman historians. The Albanian scholar Mahri Domi claims to have identified 800 of these (Liria 15 October 1982; 1 November 1983).

Not evidence. Just because Russians use Greek names doesn't make them Greek.


11. The numerous marine terms for sea plants and animals in the Albanian language show that these people lived along the coast on what would correspond with Illyrian territory (AT 1983, 1:44-45).

Examples please


12. Then there are other words in Albanian which Greek or Roman writers long ago explicitly identified as Illyrian in origin.
Down through the centuries many once great peoples have been either destroyed or assimilated by others so as to disappear altogether. But the Illyrian people with their distinctive dress, music, customs and especially their language have persisted in their shrinking territory along the western shore of the Balkan Peninsula. With no record or tradition even hinting at their extermination or assimilation or migration, one can only assume their unbroken historical continuity. There seems to be no question but that the present-day Albanians are the historically uninterrupted descendants of the lllyrians who were known to have inhabited that same region in early Greek and Roman times."
--The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present, Edwin E. Jacques – 1995, pg.37 – 38

Again, we need specific examples please.

Are any of your sources posted after number "12" from the last 150 years?

[Anglojew]

so, state the proofs for present Celtic speaking people being descendents of ancient Celts. Where are their written records?

Two wrongs don't make a right but there's loads of Latin texts. However many people today labelled Celtic are actually descended from Neolithic Europeans who were "Celticised" during Roman times and before.

[Anglojew]

Shqipetar is a relatively new term. We used to call ourselves Arbenor, Arben/Arbenia was the old name for Albania (hence Arbereshi/Arbeneshi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Arbanon

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Principality_of_Arb%C3%ABr_%2811th-12th_century_AD%29.png

From the link you posted;


According to some scholars, Progon's realm was the first Albanian state during the Middle Ages. Pipa and Repishti conclude that Arbanon was the first sketch of an "Albanian state", and that it retained semi-autonomous status as the western extremity of an empire (under the Doukai of Epirus or the Laskarids of Nicaea).

Before 1204, Arbanon was an autonomous principality of the Byzantine Empire The titles archon (held by Progon) and panhypersebastos (held by Dhimiter) is a sign of Byzantine dependence. After 1204, the Albanians naturally followed the Despotate of Epirus, the successor of the Byzantine Empire. The Gëziq inscription mention the Progon family as judices, and notes their dependence on Vladin and Đorđe Nemanjić (r. 1208–1216), the princes of Zeta. The rulers were connected to the Serbian Nemanjić dynasty, through marriage and alliances. In 1252, Golem submitted to the Empire of Nicaea.

[Anglojew]

The Ottomans never had it. Why are people so dense.

It's similar to how Ottomans borrowed the Fez;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Fes.jpg


The fez (Turkish: fes, plural fezzes or fezes), as well as its equivalent, the tarboosh (Arabic: طربوش‎ / Egyptian Arabic pronunciation: [tˤɑɾˈbuːʃ], ALA-LC: ṭarbūsh), is a felt hat of two types: either in the shape of a truncated cone made of red felt, or a short cylinder made of kilim fabric, both usually with a tassel attached to the top. The tarboosh is of ancient Greek origin and the modern fez, which is similar, owes much of its development and popularity to the Ottoman era

The fez was developed to fashionable heights by Andalusian Moors in the city of Fes, Morocco, by the 17th century. The artisans involved in their making were the most select members of the city's souqs.

In 1826 Sultan Mahmud II of the Ottoman Empire suppressed the Janissaries and began sweeping reforms of the military. His modernized military adopted Western style uniforms and, as hats, the fez with a cloth wrapped around it. In 1829 the Sultan ordered his civil officials to wear the plain fez, and also banned the wearing of turbans.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fez

[Kamal900]

It's similar to how Ottomans borrowed the Fez;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Fes.jpg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fez

lol, i have it!

[alb0zfinest]

I really appreciate your post as it's the only attempt to answer the question but could you be more specific. For instance;



This doesn't mention which lines of reasoning convince linguists of this.

The lines of reasoning are listed 1-12

This seems to fall into the same argument made by contemporary Bulgarian/Slavic Macedonians to argue they're somehow related to ancient Macedonians. It's not evidence. Were ancient Britians mainly Germanic because today's England is?

Its just a description of where the illyrian tribe of albanoi lived. And its the area where Albanians live today. This suggests some sort of connection, but obviously not definite. That's why there are 12 lines of reasnoing and not one.
Wikipedia correctly states;

They are listed as an Illyrian tribe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_tribes_in_Illyria

They're not even found on most lists of ancient Illyrians;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs.png



This statement isn't even true as their were Latin, Paeonians and Celtic speakers in the region then but besides this it has no baring on today. It's like saying because there were two languages in ancient Britain (Pictish and Celtic) then because there's two languages in todays Britain (Celtic and English) then English is Pictish. It's not a logical argument.

Albanian is spoken in the same place as where the Illyrians were located, what is so hard to understand about that?

Again, no proof.

This is an actual book. If you want the proof buy the book. These stated are the conclusions the author came to as a result of the evidence he found.

Again, no proof.

This is an actual book. If you want the proof buy the book. These stated are the conclusions the author came to as a result of the evidence he found


Again, no proof. Which data?
This is an actual book. If you want the proof buy the book. These stated are the conclusions the author came to as a result of the evidence he found

Again, no proof. Just hearsay.

This is an actual book. If you want the proof buy the book. These stated are the conclusions the author came to as a result of the evidence he found

Again, this isn't proof. Which borrowings? Which studies? I would love to believe you but this isn't evidence.

This is an actual book. If you want the proof buy the book. These stated are the conclusions the author came to as a result of the evidence he found

Best evidence yet. Only one with specific examples but problematic. The Thames river is a Celtic name. It doesn't make English Celts because they use a Celtic name.

Whenever new settlers come they usually change the name. Quite alot of places actually mean something in Albanian.

Not evidence. Just because Russians use Greek names doesn't make them Greek.

No it doesn't, but for the majority of the population to have Illyrian names would just be completely ridiculous if they were not illyrians.

Examples please



Again, we need specific examples please.

Are any of your sources from the last 150 years?

Responses are bolded, was too lazy to quote

P.S: There were also no migrations into Albania, since the time of the illyrian occupation

[alb0zfinest]

By the way, the source raine that you keep posting about Austrian scholars leaving Albanians lost for words.

They do say
“One thing we know for sure is that a language which, with some justification, we can call Albanian has been around for at least 3,000 years,” Schumacher says. “Even though it was not written down for millennia, Albanian existed as a separate entity,” he added. "

The Albanian language having been around at least 3,000 years and having developed in northern balkans according to them means that we were in Europe long before the slavs.
Either way Kosova is not serbia

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/austrian-scholars-leave-albania-lost-for-words

[Skerdilaid]

I pity my brothers that actually spend energy on threads like these:picard1:


Anglojew and all the Slavic/Turkish skanks, we don't give a fuck what you think, or say! We are where we at, and we speak what we speak, so no other language or culture is related to us. K? This goes to all of you lazy jelly hoes, suck our cock!

[Borna]

Why people on this forum can't write a single post without curses, ad hominem attacks or insults?

[alb0zfinest]

Why people on this forum can't write a single post without curses, ad hominem attacks or insults?

What the fucking fuck do you fucking mean that I can't fucking write a single fucking post without a fucking insult? what the fuck ever gave you this idea? :D

[Borna]

...

[Pjeter Pan]

What the fucking fuck do you fucking mean that I can't fucking write a single fucking post without a fucking insult? what the fuck ever gave you this idea? :D
Ha

[Pjeter Pan]

Anglojew/raine tell me that Albanians are since your scholars and historians.
Clearly you know better than all the actual scholars who study Albanians and came to the conclusion that we Illyrians and Originals habitants of the Balkans. But no, they're wrong and your right.

[Anglojew]

Anglojew/raine tell me that Albanians are since your scholars and historians.
Clearly you know better than all the actual scholars who study Albanians and came to the conclusion that we Illyrians and Originals habitants of the Balkans. But no, they're wrong and your right.

All I can go by is the evidence.


The Albanian language is attested in a written form only in the 15th century AD, when the Albanian ethnos was already formed. In the absence of prior data on the language, scholars have used the Latin and Slav loans into Albanian for identifying its location of origin.

The place where the Albanian language was formed is uncertain, but analysis has suggested that it was in a mountainous region, rather than in a plain or seacoast. While the words for plants and animals characteristic of mountainous regions are entirely original, the names for fish and for agricultural activities are generally assumed to have been borrowed from other languages. The Slavic loans in Albanian suggest that contacts between two populations took place when Albanians dwelt in forests 600–900 metres above sea level.[ The overwhelming amount of mountaineering and shepherding vocabulary, coupled with the extensive influence of Latin makes it likely that the Albanians originated north of the Jireček Line, further north and inland than the current borders of Albania suggest. It has long been recognized that there are two treatments of Latin loans in Albanian, of Old Dalmatian type and Romanian type, but that would point out to two geographic layers, coastal Adriatic and inner Balkan region. Some scholars believe that the Latin influence over Albanian is of Eastern Romance origin, rather than of Dalmatian origin, which would exclude Dalmatia as a place of origin. Adding to this the several hundred words in Romanian that are cognate only with Albanian cognates (see Eastern Romance substratum), these scholars assume that Romanians and Albanians lived in close proximity at one time. The areas where this might have happened is the Morava valley in eastern Serbia.

Another argument in favor of a northern origin for the Albanian language is the relatively small number of words of Greek origin, mostly from Doric dialect, even though Southern Illyria neighbored the Classical Greek civilization and there was a number of Greek colonies along the Illyrian coastline. However, in view of the amount of Albanian-Greek isoglosses, which the scholar Vladimir Orel considers surprisingly high (in comparison with the Indo-Albanian and Armeno-Albanian ones), the author concludes that this particular proximity could be the result of intense secondary contacts of two proto-dialects.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Bgiusca_Jirecek_Line.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

[Anglojew]

lol, i have it!

They're cool. We should bring them back in fashion.

[Kamal900]

They're cool. We should bring them back in fashion.

Doctor who once wore it in some episode. It was funny, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ2_cPIwNJk

[Anglojew]

Responses are bolded, was too lazy to quote

P.S: There were also no migrations into Albania, since the time of the illyrian occupation

1. See my post directly above, Albanian originated north of the Jireček Line.

2. Your statement is obviously and demonstably incorrect;

http://dnaconsultants.com/images/gypsy%20migrations.jpg

http://www.mappery.com/maps/Germanic-Invasions-Map-378-439.jpg

http://www.tc-america.org/images/big/displacement-map.jpg

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/citd/RussianHeritage/1.KR/SCMEDIA/1.Map.3.gif

http://www.andrzejb.net/slavic/images/map2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Wends_migration.jpg/800px-Wends_migration.jpg

[Anglojew]

I pity my brothers that actually spend energy on threads like these:picard1:


Anglojew and all the Slavic/Turkish skanks, we don't give a fuck what you think, or say! We are where we at, and we speak what we speak, so no other language or culture is related to us. K? This goes to all of you lazy jelly hoes, suck our cock!

I'm genuinely interested in your origin. I'd just like some clear cut evidence. I want to know.

[Stefan_Dusan]

This goes to all of you lazy jelly hoes, suck our cock!

How about you scrub my toilet, I'm a lazy south slav and you're hardworking Albanian :D

[Skerdilaid]

How about you scrub my toilet, I'm a lazy south slav and you're hardworking Albanian :D

How about you do the other thing I have suggested?;)

[Skerdilaid]

I'm genuinely interested in your origin. I'd just like some clear cut evidence. I want to know.

Very interesting and convincing at the same time! So you are seeking the truth on a forum like this?

[Anglojew]

Very interesting and convincing at the same time! So you are seeking the truth on a forum like this?

Yeah I am.

[Skerdilaid]

Yeah I am.

lol, get fuck out of here!

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Arkan was never in Mitrovica before Milosevic, he was in western Europe and before that Belgrade. I know you want Albanians to be tough guys but in reality we don't view you that way.

LOL, are you stupid or what I just said the person was from Mitrovica not that he met Arkan at military service in Kosova...It was in Croatia where the event happen'd. ;)

[Stefan_Dusan]

LOL, are you stupid or what I just said the person was from Mitrovica not that he met Arkan at military service in Kosova...It was in Croatia where the event happen'd. ;)

He kicked Arkan's ass in Croatia :D Lol butthurt Albo is lying now, any Albanian Arkan would run into Croatia would be dead before any fist fight happened :laugh:

[Apis]

Has anyone actually posted any information or has this thread just been 22 pages of Albanians verbally abusing everyone because they can't prove anything?

[wvwvw]

Ardian Vebiu, famous Albanian historian writes:
"My personal opinion is that the issue of Albanians descending or not from Illyrians doesn't deserve the interest it has traditionally aroused. There is absolutely no Illyrian cultural legacy among Albanians today. In a certain sense, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism."

Albanian Academic Professor Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich:
"the Albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead truth, to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and illyrian origin.This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations"

"Albanians do not have a country, cities, camps, fortifications and farms, but live rather in tents and are constantly on the move from one place to another with the help of their troops and relatives. They do have one city called Duracium (Durrës) which belongs to the Latins and from which they get textiles and other necessities."
Source:'Anonymi Descriptio Europae Orientalis' 1308

[The Illyrian Warrior]

He kicked Arkan's ass in Croatia :D Lol butthurt Albo is lying now, any Albanian Arkan would run into Croatia would be dead before any fist fight happened :laugh:

Mids 80' bitch not 90' read better next time before your eyes poop off from beer penetration. :D

[cally]

Ardian Vebiu, famous Albanian historian writes:
"My personal opinion is that the issue of Albanians descending or not from Illyrians doesn't deserve the interest it has traditionally aroused. There is absolutely no Illyrian cultural legacy among Albanians today. In a certain sense, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism."

Albanian Academic Professor Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich:
"the Albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead truth, to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and illyrian origin.This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations"

"Albanians do not have a country, cities, camps, fortifications and farms, but live rather in tents and are constantly on the move from one place to another with the help of their troops and relatives. They do have one city called Duracium (Durrës) which belongs to the Latins and from which they get textiles and other necessities."
Source:'Anonymi Descriptio Europae Orientalis' 1308

Ok. Can you tell me what these Illyrian words mean in Greek, Latin or South Slavic languages?



mal "mountain"; cf. Alb. mal
bardi "white"; cf. Alb. bardhë
drenis "deer"; cf. Alb. dre, dreni
delme "sheep"; cf. Alb. (Gheg dialect) dele, delme
dard "Dardania"; ostensibly connected with cf. Alb. dardhë, "pear"
drakoina "supper"; cf. Alb. darke, dreke
Hyllus (the name of an Illyrian king); cf. Alb. yll (hyll in some northern dialects) "star", also Alb. hyj "god"
sīca "dagger"; cf. Alb. thikë or thika "knife"
Ulc- "wolf" (pln. Ulcinium); cf. Alb. ujk "wolf"
brisa "husk of grapes"; cf. Alb. bërsí "lees, dregs; mash" (< PA *brutiā)
loúgeon "pool"; cf. Alb. lag, legen "to wet, soak, bathe, wash" (< PA *lauga), lëgatë "pool" (< PA *leugatâ), lakshte "dew" (< PA laugista)
mantía "bramblebush"; Old and dial. Alb. mandë "berry, mulberry" (Mod. Alb. mën, man)
Ragusa-Ragusium "grape"; cf. Proto-Alb. ragusha (Mod. Alb. rrush)
rhinos "fog, mist"; cf. Old Alb. ren "cloud" (Mod. Alb. re, rê) (< PA *rina)
Vendum "place"; cf. Proto-Alb. wen-ta (Mod. Alb. vend)

[Anglojew]

Ok. Can you tell me what these Illyrian words mean in Greek, Latin or South Slavic languages?



mal "mountain"; cf. Alb. mal
bardi "white"; cf. Alb. bardhë
drenis "deer"; cf. Alb. dre, dreni
delme "sheep"; cf. Alb. (Gheg dialect) dele, delme
dard "Dardania"; ostensibly connected with cf. Alb. dardhë, "pear"
drakoina "supper"; cf. Alb. darke, dreke
Hyllus (the name of an Illyrian king); cf. Alb. yll (hyll in some northern dialects) "star", also Alb. hyj "god"
sīca "dagger"; cf. Alb. thikë or thika "knife"
Ulc- "wolf" (pln. Ulcinium); cf. Alb. ujk "wolf"
brisa "husk of grapes"; cf. Alb. bërsí "lees, dregs; mash" (< PA *brutiā)
loúgeon "pool"; cf. Alb. lag, legen "to wet, soak, bathe, wash" (< PA *lauga), lëgatë "pool" (< PA *leugatâ), lakshte "dew" (< PA laugista)
mantía "bramblebush"; Old and dial. Alb. mandë "berry, mulberry" (Mod. Alb. mën, man)
Ragusa-Ragusium "grape"; cf. Proto-Alb. ragusha (Mod. Alb. rrush)
rhinos "fog, mist"; cf. Old Alb. ren "cloud" (Mod. Alb. re, rê) (< PA *rina)
Vendum "place"; cf. Proto-Alb. wen-ta (Mod. Alb. vend)


Most of those words aren't listed out of the known Illyrian words,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_languages

Also words like Sika for dagger could have come to Albanian from Latin Sicca.

[cally]

Most of those words aren't listed out of the known Illyrian words,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_languages

Also words like Sika for dagger could have come to Albanian from Latin Sicca.

They are listed there under "Classification"

[Anglojew]

They are listed there under "Classification"

Right you are!

Finally some real evidence of some linguistic continuum.

[cally]

Has anyone actually posted any information or has this thread just been 22 pages of Albanians verbally abusing everyone because they can't prove anything?

It's more to do with this thread having been done 1000 times before and no one has time to repeat themselves.
I'm sure if it was concerning Anglojew's ethnicity, he would have gathered evidence and searched the entire internet by now.
Anyway, we don't say we are direct descendants of Illyrians or anyone for that matter but we have the best argument for continuity compared to our neighbours, that's all. It's too difficult to come to a conclusion because we don't have much information about them.

[cally]

Right you are!

Finally some real evidence of some linguistic continuum.

Am I really the first person to post this? I don't understand

[Apis]

Am I really the first person to post this? I don't understand

You are the first Albanian on this thread to give an adequate response which didn't involve verbally abusing Anglojew. The only other one I found was the factually shaky copy-pasta that's been circulating on here:


...

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Has anyone actually posted any information or has this thread just been 22 pages of Albanians verbally abusing everyone because they can't prove anything?

Slavics together with TA clowns such as Anglojew and Raine telling us what we're and where we came from is beyond absurdity thus loosing meaning of scholars and history completely.

Heck has anyone asked serbs to come over here and provoke intentionally in issues regarding just Albanians? No!! Watch out for your crappy members then talk, if you fail to see your own fault then I'd advice the best you can do is to shut up and move on.

[Anglojew]

Slavics together with TA clowns such as Anglojew and Raine telling us what we're and where we came from is beyond absurdity thus loosing meaning of scholars and history completely.

Heck has anyone asked serbs to come over here and provoke intentionally in issues regarding just Albanians? No!! Watch out for your crappy members then talk, if you fail to see your own fault then I'd advice the best you can do is to shut up and move on.

How does asking a reasonable question make me a clown?

If you asked me to prove Ashkenazi Jews are descended from ancient Judeans I'd be happy to answer that they're at least partially descended and post historical, religious, linguistic and genetic evidence to back up my claims.

[Anglojew]

It's more to do with this thread having been done 1000 times before and no one has time to repeat themselves.
I'm sure if it was concerning Anglojew's ethnicity, he would have gathered evidence and searched the entire internet by now.
Anyway, we don't say we are direct descendants of Illyrians or anyone for that matter but we have the best argument for continuity compared to our neighbours, that's all. It's too difficult to come to a conclusion because we don't have much information about them.

I'd ask the same thing of modern Macedonians.

[Kalimtari]

From the link you posted;

before that we were living in remote areas and Vlachs and later Slavs roamed the lowlands


Arguments for the Illyrian origin

The arguments for the Illyrian-Albanian connection have been as follows:[42][45]

The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi,[46][47][48] an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 AD.
From what is known from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), the Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.[49]
There is no evidence of any major migration into Albanian territory since the records of Illyrian occupation.[50]
Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian.[51]
Words borrowed from Greek (e.g. Gk (NW) "device, instrument" mākhaná > *mokër "millstone" Gk (NW) drápanon > *drapër "sickle" etc.) date back before the Christian era[50] and are mostly of the Doric Greek dialect,[52] which means that the ancestors of the Albanians were in contact with the northwestern part of Ancient Greek civilization and probably borrowed words from Greek cities (Dyrrachium, Apollonia, etc.) in the Illyrian territory, colonies which belonged to the Doric division of Greek, or from contacts in the Epirus area.
Words borrowed from Latin (e.g. Latin aurum > ar "gold", gaudium > gaz "joy" etc.[53]) date back before the Christian era,[54][45] while the Illyrians on the territory of modern Albania were the first from the old Balkan populations to be conquered by Romans in 229–167 BC, the Thracians were conquered in 45 AD and the Dacians in 106 AD.
The ancient Illyrian place-names of the region have achieved their current form following Albanian phonetic rules e.g. Durrachion > Durrës (with the Albanian initial accent) Aulona > Vlonë~Vlorë (with rhotacism) Scodra > Shkodra etc.[45][50][52][55]
The characteristics of the Albanian dialects Tosk and Geg[56] in the treatment of the native and loanwords from other languages, have led to the conclusion that the dialectal split preceded the Slavic migration to the Balkans[57][58] which means that in that period (5th to 6th century AD) Albanians were occupying pretty much the same area around Shkumbin river[59] which straddled the Jirecek line.[45][60]

Arguments against Illyrian origin

The theory of an Illyrian origin of the Albanians is challenged on archaeological and linguistic grounds.[61]

Although the Illyrian tribe of the Albanoi and the place Albanopolis could be located near Krujë, nothing proves a relation of this tribe to the Albanians, whose name appears for the first time in the eleventh century in Byzantine sources[62]
According to linguist Vladimir I. Georgiev, the theory of an Illyrian origin for the Albanians is weakened by a lack of any Albanian names before the 12th century and the relative absence of Greek influence that would surely be present if the Albanians inhabited their homeland continuously since ancient times.[63] According to Georgiev if the Albanians originated near modern-day Albania, the number of Greek loanwords in the Albanian language should be higher.[64]
According to Georgiev, although some Albanian toponyms descend from Illyrian, Illyrian toponyms from antiquity have not changed according to the usual phonetic laws applying to the evolution of Albanian. Furthermore, placenames can be a special case and the Albanian language more generally has not been proven to be of Illyrian stock.[62]
Many linguists have tried to link Albanian with Illyrian, but without clear results.[62][65] Albanian belongs to the satem group within Indo-European language tree, while there is a debate whether Illyrian was centum or satem. On the other hand, Dacian[65] and Thracian[66] seem to belong to satem. However, more recent research suggests that there was a process of satemization by which non-satem languages slowly acquired characteristics, and this characteristic has found parallels in the modern development of many Western European languages.[citation needed]
There is a lack of clear archaeological evidence for a continuous settlement of an Albanian-speaking population since Illyrian times. For example, while Albanians scholars maintain that the Komani-Kruja burial sites support the Illyrian-Albanian continuity theory, most scholars reject this and consider that the remains indicate a population of Romanized Illyrians who spoke a Romance language.[67][68][69]

Thracian or Dacian origin
Albanians in the 5th–10th centuries according to the Dacian theory.

Aside from an Illyrian origin, a Dacian or Thracian origin is also hypothesized. There are a number of factors taken as evidence for a Dacian or Thracian origin of Albanians. According to Vladimir Orel, for example, the territory associated with proto-Albanian almost certainly does not correspond with that of modern Albania, i.e. the Illyrian coast, but rather that of Dacia Ripensis and farther north.[70]

The Romanian historian I.I. Russu has originated the theory that Albanians represent a massive migration of the Carpi population pressed by the Slavic migrations. Due to political reasons the book was first published in 1995 and translated in German by Konrad Gündisch.[71]

The German historian Gottfried Schramm (1994) suggests an origin of the Albanians in the Bessoi, a Thracian tribe that was Christianized as early as during the 4th century. Schramm argues that such an early Christianization would explain the otherwise surprising virtual absence of any traces of a pre-Christian pagan religion among the Albanians as they appear in history during the Late Middle Ages.[72] According to this theory, the Bessoi were deported en masse by the Byzantines at the beginning of the 9th century to central Albania for the purpose of fighting against the Bulgarians. In their new homeland, the ancestors of the Albanians took the geographic name Arbanon as their ethnic name and proceeded to assimilate local populations of Slavs, Greeks, and Romans.[73]

Linguist Eric Hamp on the other hand posits that Albanian is more closely relate to Baltic and Slavic rather than Thracian.[74]

Cities whose names follow Albanian phonetic laws – such as Shtip (Štip), Shkupi (Skopje) and Niš – lie in the areas, believed, to once inhabited by Thracians, Paionians and Dardani; the later most often considered Illyrians by ancient historians. While there still is no clear picture of where the Illyrian-Thracian border was, Naissus is mostly considered Illyrian territory.[75]

There are some close correspondences between Thracian and Albanian words.[76] However, as with Illyrian, most Dacian and Thracian words and names have not been closely linked with Albanian (v. Hamp). Also, many Dacian and Thracian placenames were made out of joined names (such as Dacian Sucidava or Thracian Bessapara; see List of Dacian cities and List of ancient Thracian cities), while the modern Albanian language does not allow this.[76]

The Bulgarian linguist Vladimir Georgiev posits that that Albanians descend from a Dacian population from Moesia, now the Morava region of eastern Serbia, and that Illyrian toponyms are found in a far smaller area than the traditional area of Illyrian settlement, and that the Albanians originate from the Morava region in Moesia (nowadays eastern Serbia).[1]

According to Georgiev, Latin loanwords into Albanian show East Balkan Latin (proto-Romanian) phonetics, rather than West Balkan (Dalmatian) phonetics.[61] Combined with the fact that the Romanian language contains several hundred words similar only to Albanian, Georgiev proposes the Albanian language formed between the 4th and 6th century in or near modern-day Romania, which was Dacian territory.[64] He suggests that Romanian is a fully Romanised Dacian language, whereas Albanian is only partly so.[77] Albanian and Eastern Romance also share grammatical features (see Balkan language union) and phonological features, such as the common phonemes or the rhotacism of "n".[78]

Apart from the linguistic theory that Albanian is more akin to East Balkan Romance (i.e. Dacian substrate) than West Balkan Romance (i.e. Illyrian/Dalmatian substrate), Georgiev also notes that marine words in Albanian are borrowed from other languages, suggesting that Albanians were not originally a coastal people (as the Illyrians were).[77] According to Georgiev the scarcity of Greek loan words also supports a Dacian theory – if Albanians originated in the region of Illyria there would surely be a heavy Greek influence.[77] Lastly, Georgiev also notes that Illyrian toponyms do not follow Albanian phonetic laws.[77] According to historian John Van Antwerp Fine, "these are serious (non-chauvinistic) arguments that cannot be summarily dismissed."[77]

Hamp, on the other hand, seems to agree with Georgiev in relation to Albania with Dacian but disagrees on the chronological order of events. Hamp argues that Albanians could have arrived from present day Kosovo to their current geographical position sometime in late Roman period. Also, contrary to Georgiev, he indicates there are words that follow Dalmatian phonetic rules in Albanian giving as an example the word drejt 'straight' < d(i)rectus matching Old Dalmatian traita < tract.[79]

There are no records that indicate a major migration of Dacians into present day Albania, but two Dacian cities existed: Thermidava[80][81][82] close to Scodra and Quemedava[82] in Dardania. Also, a Thracian settlement was known to have existed in Dardania, ar Dardapara. Phrygian tribes such as the Bryges were present in Albania near Durrës since before the Roman conquest (v. Hamp).[76] An argument against a Thracian origin (which does not apply to Dacian) is that most Thracian territory was on the Greek half of the Jirecek Line, aside from varied Thracian populations stretching from Thrace into Albania, passing through Paionia and Dardania and up into Moesia; it is considered that most Thracians were Hellenized in Thrace (v. Hoddinott) and Macedonia.

The Dacian theory could also be consistent with the known patterns of barbarian incursions. Although there is no documentation of an Albanian migration, the Morava valley region adjacent to Dacia was most heavily affected by migrations of Goths and Slavs, and was moreover a natural invasion route.[77] Thus it would have been a region whose indigenous population would naturally have fled,[77] for example to the relative safety of mountainous northern Albania.[citation needed][original research?]
Archaeological evidence

The Komani culture theory, which is generally viewed by Albanian archaeologists as archaeological evidence of evolution from "Illyrian" ancestors to medieval Albanians, has found little support outside Albania.[83][84][85] Indeed, Anglo-American anthropologists highlight that even if regional population continuity can be proven, this does not translate into linguistic, much less ethnic continuity. Both aspects of culture can be modified or drastically changed even in the absence of large-scale population flux.[86]

Prominent in the discussions are certain brooch forms, seen to derive from Illyrian prototypes. However, a recent analysis revealed that whilst broad analogies are indeed evident to Iron Age Illyrian forms, the inspiration behind Komani fibulae is more closely linked to Late Roman fibulae, particularly those from Balkan forts in the present-day Serbia and northwestern Bulgaria.[84] This might suggest that after the general collapse of the Roman limes in the early 7th century, some late Roman population withdrew to Epirus.[84] However, assemblages also have many "barbarian" artefacts, such as Slavic bow-fibulae, Avar-styled belt mounts and Carolingian glass vessels.[87][88] By contrast, beyond the immediate Adriatic littoral, most of the west Balkans (including Dardania) appears to have been depopulated after the early 7th century from almost a century.[89] Another aspect of discontinuity is the design of the tombs: pits lined by limestone rocks, a construction used in the region since the Iron Age period. However the tombs in the 7th century, such burials are in a Christian context (placed next to churches) rather than reversion to a pagan Illyrian past[88]

A further argument against a proto-Albanian affinity of the Komani culture is that very similar material is found in central Dalmatia, Montenegro, western Macedonia and south-eastern Bulgaria, along the Via Egnatia; and even islands such as Corfu and Sardinia. The 'late Roman' character of the assemblages has led some to hypothesize that it represented Byzantine garrisons.[90] However, already by this time, literary sources give testimony of widespread Slavic settlements in the central Balkans.[87] Specifically for Albania, the study of lexicon and toponyms might suggest that speakers of proto-Albanian, Slavic and Romance co-existed but occupied specific ecologic/ economic niches.[85]
Genetic studies
Further information: Genetic history of Europe

Various genetic studies have been done on the European population, some of them including current Albanian population, Albanian-speaking populations outside Albania, and the Balkan region as a whole.
Y-Dna

The two haplogroups most strongly associated with Albanian people (E-V13 and J2b) are often considered to have arrived in Europe from the Near East with the Neolithic revolution or late Mesolithic, early in the Holocene epoch. From here in the Balkans, it is thought, they spread to the rest of Europe.
The distribution of E-V13 in Europe

Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.[91] Most E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, possibly in the Balkans. The current distribution of this lineage might be the result of several demographic expansions from the Balkans, such as that associated with the Neolithic revolution, the Balkan Bronze Age, and more recently, during the Roman era during the so-called "rise of Illyrican soldiery".[91][92][93][94][95][96]

Y haplogroup J in the modern Balkans is mainly represented by the sub-clade J2b (also known as J-M12 or J-M102 for example). Like E-V13, this clade is spread throughout Europe with a seeming centre and origin near Albania.[91][92][94][96]

Common in the Balkans but not specifically associated with Albania and the Albanian language are I-M423 and R1a-M17:

Y haplogroup I is found mostly in Europe, and may have been there since before the LGM. Several of its sub-clades are found in significant amounts in the Balkans. The specific I sub-clade which has attracted most discussion in Balkan studies currently referred to as I2a2, defined by SNP M423[97][98] This clade has higher frequencies to the north of the Albanophone area, in Dalmatia and Bosnia.[96]

Haplogroup R1a is common in Central and Eastern Europe (and is also common in Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent). In the Balkans, it is strongly associated with Slavic areas.[96]

The other most common Y haplogroup in the Balkans has strong associations with many parts of Europe:

Haplogroup R1b is common all over Europe but especially common on the western Atlantic coast of Europe, and is also found in the Middle East and some parts of Africa. In Europe including the Balkans, it tends to be less common in Slavic speaking areas, where R1a is often the most common haplogroup. It shows similar frequencies among Albanians and Greeks at around 20% of the male population, but is much less common in Serbia and Bosnia.[96]

A study by Peričić et al. in 2005[99] found the following Y-Dna haplogroup frequencies in Albanians from Kosovo with haplogroup E1b1b and its subclades representing 47.4% of the total:
N E-M78* E-V13 E-M81 E-M123 J2 I R1b R1a P
114 1.75% 43.85% 0.90% 0.90% 16.70% 7.96% 21.10% 4.42% 1.77%
mtDna

Another study of old Balkan populations and their genetic affinities with current European populations was done in 2004, based on mitochondrial DNA on the skeletal remains of some old Thracian populations from SE of Romania, dating from the Bronze and Iron Age.[100] This study was during excavations of some human fossil bones of 20 individuals dating about 3200–4100 years, from the Bronze Age, belonging to some cultures such as Tei, Monteoru and Noua were found in graves from some necropoles SE of Romania, namely in Zimnicea, Smeeni, Candesti, Cioinagi-Balintesti, Gradistea-Coslogeni and Sultana-Malu Rosu; and the human fossil bones and teeth of 27 individuals from the early Iron Age, dating from the 10th to 7th century B.C. from the Hallstatt Era (the Babadag Culture), were found extremely SE of Romania near the Black Sea coast, in some settlements from Dobrogea, namely: Jurilovca, Satu Nou, Babadag, Niculitel and Enisala-Palanca.[100] After comparing this material with the present-day European population, the authors concluded:

Computing the frequency of common point mutations of the present-day European population with the Thracian population has resulted that the Italian (7.9%), the Albanian (6.3%) and the Greek (5.8%) have shown a bias of closer genetic kinship with the Thracian individuals than the Romanian and Bulgarian individuals (only 4.2%).[100]

Autosomal DNA

Analysis of autosomal DNA, which analyses all genetic components has revealed that few genetic discontinuities exist in European populations, apart from certain outliers such as Saami, Sardinians, Basques and Kosovar Albanians. They found that Albanians, on the one hand, have a high amount of identity by descent sharing, suggesting that both Albanians from Albania and Kosovo derived from a relatively small population that expanded recently and rapidly in the last 1,500 years. On the other hand, they are not wholly isolated or endogamous, as they share a significant amount of descent with nearby Macedonian, Greek and Italian populations.[101] The recent growth is particularly evident in Kosovar Albanians, which show particularly high levels of homogeneity, in contrast to the diversity otherwise found in other Balkan populations.[102]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians (check the links of the article)

[Kalimtari]

Ardian Vebiu, famous Albanian historian writes:
"My personal opinion is that the issue of Albanians descending or not from Illyrians doesn't deserve the interest it has traditionally aroused. There is absolutely no Illyrian cultural legacy among Albanians today. In a certain sense, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism."

Albanian Academic Professor Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich:
"the Albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead truth, to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and illyrian origin.This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations"

"Albanians do not have a country, cities, camps, fortifications and farms, but live rather in tents and are constantly on the move from one place to another with the help of their troops and relatives. They do have one city called Duracium (Durrës) which belongs to the Latins and from which they get textiles and other necessities."
Source:'Anonymi Descriptio Europae Orientalis' 1308

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz5ku8jQms1qio9b0o1_500.gif

source: Fryma "Hobby Sexologist", 2014 :P

[alb0zfinest]

You are the first Albanian on this thread to give an adequate response which didn't involve verbally abusing Anglojew. The only other one I found was the factually shaky copy-pasta that's been circulating on here:

Whats factually shaky about them? You don't have to take my word for this, for most of the sources i provided you can find pdf files and read them. The only one i couldn't find a pdf file for is the one from edwin e jacques. The actual copy of the book is $67 so that one i could not read fully. And no those haven't been circulating, what's been discussed about illyrians beforr and the sources used i did not use the same ones for the most part, besides one source which wasnt part of the 13 sources, none of which are from Albanian historians.

[Kalimtari]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_b0p1tJygV7A/TLi7ux08syI/AAAAAAAAASw/J4jbIMSLrDA/s1600/historical-accuracy.jpg

:D

[alb0zfinest]

Lmaoo at famous albanian historian. But its interesting that anglojew actually takes the source of an albanian suposed historian and dismisses linguists, historians, phiologists etc thati have posted soley because it supports his empty claims. Now if i were to post sources of albanian historians that agree with the albanian illyrian connection, he would not accept them and deem them biased meanwhile he accepts, albanian historians but only if they , contradict the albanian illyrian connection.

[KrashNick]

Lmaoo at famous albanian historian. But its interesting that anglojew actually takes the source of an albanian suposed historian and dismisses linguists, historians, phiologists etc thati have posted soley because it supports his empty claims. Now if i were to post sources of albanian historians that agree with the albanian illyrian connection, he would not accept them and deem them biased meanwhile he accepts, albanian historians but only if they , contradict the albanian illyrian connection.

Bro its not that he really cares if we are or not illyrians , he proved before how much he "likes" albanians so don't waste your time with him .

[The Illyrian Warrior]

How does asking a reasonable question make me a clown?

If you asked me to prove Ashkenazi Jews are descended from ancient Judeans I'd be happy to answer that they're at least partially descended and post historical, religious, linguistic and genetic evidence to back up my claims.

No offence but starting threads who cause internet fighting intentionally don't know how to call else other than clown when you can provide yourself with all available infos on net....However can't take away the credit where is due, since your mission is already fulfilled whereas only thing your interested is to cause fighting and fill pages from started threads, and threads like these are quantity rather quality being started not to collect infos but for whole different cause.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Mids 80' bitch not 90' read better next time before your eyes poop off from beer penetration. :D

Give an article, not your word because you're a liar. And don't call me a bitch, you look like some scrawny siptaricice :laugh:

Let me guess during Kosovo war you were refugee in macedonia, now you're tough warrior.


Arkan returned to Belgrade in May 1983,[4] continuing his criminal career by opening a number of illegal businesses. In November 1983, six months after his return, a bank in Zagreb was robbed, with the robbers leaving a rose on the counter — This was allegedly Arkan's signature in West Europe.[4] Two federal policemen in civil clothes sought after him at his mother's house on the 27 March Street.[4] Arkan was not there, so his mother called him and said that two unknown males waited for him.[4] He brought a revolver with him and shot and wounded both of them.[4] An intervention Stane Dolanc effected his release from prison only two days later.

Maybe the men shot was the idiot from Mitrovica :laugh:

[Hadouken]

No offence but starting threads who cause internet fighting intentionally don't know how to call else other than clown when you can provide yourself with all available infos on net....However can't take away the credit where is due, since your mission is already fulfilled whereas only thing your interested is to cause fighting and fill pages from started threads, and threads like these are quantity rather quality being started not to collect infos but for whole different cause.

it is the speciality of jews to cause fights between others

fucking sick

[Skerdilaid]

Give an article, not your word because you're a liar. And don't call me a bitch, you look like some scrawny siptaricice :laugh:

Let me guess during Kosovo war you were refugee in macedonia, now you're tough warrior.



Maybe the men shot was the idiot from Mitrovica :laugh:

Arkan grew up in Kosova, and he was a little bitch, petty thief that got his ass kicked left and right. We all know how he became what he became, so leave tough talk to tough men, pig farmer.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Arkan grew up in Kosova, and he was a little bitch, petty thief that got his ass kicked left and right. We all know how he became what he became, so leave tough talk to tough men, pig farmer.

Arkan grew up in Kosovo? Arkan grew up in Beograd, before that Croatia, and he was born in Slovenia. Where do you pull the shit out of your ass!

And you have no rights insulting anyone as a farmer, you have the farmer Balkan look and the hard working farmer attitude :laugh:

[Stefan_Dusan]

This is hilarious to me, so many butthurt wannabe tough guys (Skerdi, Illyrian Virigin) making up mythical Albos who kicked his ass xD Yet when he came to Kosovo in 1998 so many of you were crying out of fear xD

[Skerdilaid]

Arkan grew up in Kosovo? Arkan grew up in Beograd, before that Croatia, and he was born in Slovenia. Where do you pull the shit out of your ass!

And you have no rights insulting anyone as a farmer, you have the farmer Balkan look and the hard working farmer attitude :laugh:

He lived in Kosova during his young age, look it up. I don't have the farmer look, and even if I did, culturally I am not one;)

[Skerdilaid]

This is hilarious to me, so many butthurt wannabe tough guys (Skerdi, Illyrian Virigin) making up mythical Albos who kicked his ass xD Yet when he came to Kosovo in 1998 so many of you were crying out of fear xD

You still were in your pampers during the war, so leave this talk to big cocks because you have no idea what you talking about. I only jumped in after your stupid comment....

[Stefan_Dusan]

He lived in Kosova during his young age, look it up. I don't have the farmer look, and even if I did, culturally I am not one;)

He didn't even see Kosovo! You look it up! If you find mention of him living in kosovo in his younger days I will go out and buy you Albanian wife!


You still were in your pampers during the war, so leave this talk to big cocks because you have no idea what you talking about. I only jumped in after your stupid comment....

I was 10-12. Back in Kosovo I never had diapers because we couldn't aford them, my mother told me they wrapped a towel around me until it was so disgusting for me, I myself taught myself how to shit properly quick!

[Stefan_Dusan]

Hardworking = farmer mentality. You are of the farmer mindset, as soon as you value hardworking ;)

[Minesweeper]

He lived in Kosova during his young age, look it up. I don't have the farmer look, and even if I did, culturally I am not one;)

He didn't. His father did as he was one of the first partisans to enter Pristina. Arkan himself was born in Slovenia and lived in Zagreb and Belgrade in his childhood.

Btw, why is it good to be a highlander and mountain shepherd than but it sucks being lowland farmer? Farmers were always closer to civilization and lived in better conditions.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Btw, why is it good to be a highlander and mountain shepherd than but it sucks being lowland farmer? Farmers were always closer to civilization and lived in better conditions.

Skerdi thinks being a farmer is a submissive man. When in reality he's built like a farmer (short and stocky, good for working the land) and promotes a hard working ethic. He has nothing in common with tall slender lazy chobanis from the mountains.

[Pjeter Pan]

He didn't. His father did as he was one of the first partisans to enter Pristina. Arkan himself was born in Slovenia and lived in Zagreb and Belgrade in his childhood.

Btw, why is it good to be a highlander and mountain shepherd than but it sucks being lowland farmer? Farmers were always closer to civilization and lived in better conditions.
They're jealous of how much money we lowlanders are making :D
They belive they're purer than us.

[Skerdilaid]

He didn't. His father did as he was one of the first partisans to enter Pristina. Arkan himself was born in Slovenia and lived in Zagreb and Belgrade in his childhood.

Btw, why is it good to be a highlander and mountain shepherd than but it sucks being lowland farmer? Farmers were always closer to civilization and lived in better conditions.

Maybe he didn't latterly live in Kosova, but he did spend time there before the wars, and some of his associates were Kosova Albanian before Sloba took him in.

Nothing bad, I just like to remind people what they are, in case they have forgotten:D

[Skerdilaid]

Skerdi thinks being a farmer is a submissive man. When in reality he's built like a farmer (short and stocky, good for working the land) and promotes a hard working ethic. He has nothing in common with tall slender lazy chobanis from the mountains.

If we lived in the old world my friend, I would be coming down from Qyqavica and plunder your pig farm;)

[Stefan_Dusan]

Maybe he didn't latterly live in Kosova, but he did spend time there before the wars, and some of his associates were Kosova Albanian before Sloba took him in.

Maybe in the 80s he oversaw some of Kosovo Albanian politicians. Might have went a couple times to Gazimestan, but if anyone was kicking ass left and right, it was him my farmer friend ;)

[Stefan_Dusan]

If we lived in the old world my friend, I would coming down from Qyqavica and plunder your pig farm;)

What old world, farmer, you're a farmer! While I'm actually from a shepherd family, don't talk shit you silly farmer, it makes you look stupid, back in Kosovo your family would be scared of my family, yours were nice behaved teachers working hard while mine didn't hold a job and went by life as true shepherds ;)

[Skerdilaid]

Maybe in the 80s he oversaw some of Kosovo Albanian politicians. Might have went a couple times to Gazimestan, but if anyone was kicking ass left and right, it was him my farmer friend ;)

He was a thief man, and no political would hang around with him. He hung around with thiefs and gangsters.