China's astounding urbanization (plus photos of megacities)

[zhaoyun]

I was recently browsing through some online skyscraper forums, came across photos of many Chinese cities. I've been to many of these, but a lot of times when I think back about China's development, it's always insane to me how fast and how big many of these cities have become. 30 plus years ago when China emerged from Communism, most of its cities were less developed than even many third world countries, including many SSA countries because of the deprivation of Communism and the Cultural Revolution. Since then they've undergone a massive development which now leads to other issues such as pollution, a real estate bubble, massive consumption of resources, etc. But it has also enriched so many peoples' lives even though the gap between the rich and poor have increased. Ive personally met many individuals who have become extremely wealthy due to their earnings in Chinese real estate.

A good article about the future of China's urbanization, which is really astounding, it is one of the greatest transformations in the world today, it is on a scale that is unmatched anywhere in history or anywhere in the world currently.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-25/6-dot-8-trillion-price-tag-for-chinas-urbanization

Here are some photos of China's largest cities.

Shanghai - One of my favorite cities in the world, a city I am very familiar with. I almost relocated here permanently. I might have become very wealthy if I did when I was hoping to. :/

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/12532808554_833d0cd3a5_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3787/12616440543_6d98f8ba1b_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5486/12513694913_03bc1100ff_b.jpg

Chongqing

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9366945162_203da946e9_o.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2846/10275394574_76c7a750c8_b.jpg

Nanjing

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2885/9049292844_8028b9bce8_o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/grdt1Vm.jpg

Guangzhou

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Lvwo2000/Guangzhou%20city%20China/GuangzhoucityChina37.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2772/13006670725_ca5dd69849_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/9561819072_48c9b14aa4_o.jpg

http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/76d4377dtw1dvaprxpygmj.jpg

[zhaoyun]

Shenzhen

http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_131119/13111914567f1d54982d6fcb9f.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/9626296546_38ec4603c8_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7376/9605358193_510764f424_b.jpg

Chengdu

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3719/11577520063_7c3290984a_o.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7406/9772529273_d48381dff9_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7325/9740134666_43181bdd04_b.jpg

Beijing

My favorite corner of Beijing, the neighborhood in the NE corner of the Forbidden City.

http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/4679dbbftw1ee78eu11cpj20sg0ldgql.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2805/11866309296_05779b5b30_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2805/10710521146_9b736d41e9_b.jpg

Tianjin

http://img15.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto/20131205/22/66510516201312052246077858792441934_035.jpg

http://img15.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto/20131228/21/64660950201312282113402185548049170_017.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2812/11202872414_b04fd465d6_b.jpg

Wuhan

http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/06BD0F19.002C

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/8352510050_124e55aa3d_b.jpg

High speed rail station in Wuhan

http://english.people.com.cn/mediafile/200912/28/P200912281516371719420949.jpg

[zhaoyun]

Hong Kong

http://hdwallpappers.com/images/wallpapers/Hong_Kong_Skyline_Wallpaper-by_HKHSBC.jpg

Urumqi - Largest city in Central Asia

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2650/3760893508_e083b6f076_o.jpg

http://www.photofans.cn/uploads2009/09/userid144204time20090909172744.jpg

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9925/2txo.jpg

Uighur Market

http://www.photofans.cn/uploads2009/09/userid144204time20090911125705.jpg
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9011/x82j.jpg

Xi'an - One of my favorite historic cities in China, has a large Muslim Quarter

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/11403476964_043f20291b_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7340/11523759416_bc2f7208d8_b.jpg

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Lvwo2000/Xi%20An%20City%20China/XiancityChina3.jpg

In the great mosque of Xi'an

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6072/6077795400_041791df4b_b.jpg

This is considered new historic based architecture in Xi'an, I like this as I consider it the rebuilding of our civilization

https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5547/12517983635_700ec82027_b.jpg

https://s3.yimg.com/so/7337/12517991145_dcb37d2589_b.jpg

https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5547/12518102213_65fbc62550_b.jpg

Macau - Officially the world's gambling center

http://www.downloadmobilecasino.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/macau-casinos.jpg

http://www.discoverhongkong.com/us/images/beyond-hk/large/6.2.4-Macau_03.jpg


I've been to all of these cities, except for Chongqing, Chengdu, and Wuhan.

China is really an empire, most of these places are as vast and different from one another as whole countries. But the scale of urbanization throughout the size of this country is really revolutionary, it is unseen in history the vastness and scale of transformation.

[TheBlondeSalad]

Truly impressive

[Poorman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3XfpYxHKCo It seems they are simply building irrationally so that they can keep their slaves busy, and tired. I wager the Chi Coms are getting nervous up on the pedestal about now, what with the unrest in the Far West, and the West's economy about to really tank when the Petrodollar implodes.

[Kalimtari]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvCQ194esMo

[zhaoyun]

Hakon requested some before and after pics, as I cannot refuse the requests of gorgeous women :) here is an article which shows the growth of Shanghai's Pudong District within 26 years. I'll post more later when I have more time.

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/08/26-years-of-growth-shanghai-then-and-now/100569/

[wvwvw]

However there is another side of China:

can you believe these 'living cubicles' are actually apartments?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377F79000005DC-441_964x1110.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377F6D000005DC-501_964x715.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377FA5000005DC-719_964x1327.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377FB2000005DC-561_964x1245.jpg

[zhaoyun]

However there is another side of China:

can you believe these 'living cubicles' are actually apartments?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377F79000005DC-441_964x1110.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377F6D000005DC-501_964x715.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377FA5000005DC-719_964x1327.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377FB2000005DC-561_964x1245.jpg

I think those photos are actually from poor neighborhoods of HK which is notoriously dense. Most mainland Chinese cities are not as dense, but life for the urban poor is a great struggle day to day, especially for migrant workers from the countryside.

When I am in China, I can travel 50 miles and see places that may resemble the 19th century, the 20th century, the 21st century and the future all at one time. It's definitely going through an incredible tidal wave of change and momentum.

[zhaoyun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3XfpYxHKCo It seems they are simply building irrationally so that they can keep their slaves busy, and tired. I wager the Chi Coms are getting nervous up on the pedestal about now, what with the unrest in the Far West, and the West's economy about to really tank when the Petrodollar implodes.

First off, if you want to be credible, don't use the word Chicom.

There are many areas of China that have experienced rampant development and buildings that stand empty. However, given the conditions of the country, I am sure these areas will be filled as well as about 400 million rural dwellers are going into the cities. Though the areas that typically stand empty are built more for the middle class.

However, there is a huge real estate bubble. Whether it's going to collapse, it's still too early to tell. However, it is getting really out of control in many large cities.

Again, China is a very large and very complex country, and you can say a 100 things about it that are totally contradictory and they are all probably true at some level, and untrue at another level.

[GrebluBro]

First of all, we're all humans...with Chinese and Indians together forming 40% (naturally past 2000 yrs) of world population, it'd be really a shame to other humans as well if artificially labelled Indians and Chinese remain poor and makes up the huge portion of poor humans..

Secondly, big countries like India, Pakistan, Brazil (non-Whites) should emulate China or should do something on their own to eradicate poverty.

[zhaoyun]

First of all, we're all humans...with Chinese and Indians together forming 40% (naturally past 2000 yrs) of world population, it'd be really a shame to other humans as well if artificially labelled Indians and Chinese remain poor and makes up the huge portion of humans..

Secondly, big countries like India, Pakistan, Brazil (non-Whites) should emulate China or should do something on their own to eradicate poverty.

I think China's development path (which is not perfect, but so far has produced some incredible results) are specific to China's national conditions and will be difficult to be reproduced in other countries.

I think every country should develop a path of industrialization and development that is suited for their national conditions. For China, I think the reason why a country of its size has been able to develop and change so quickly are due to the authoritarian system led by a progressive party (Despite all their faults, I consider the current rulers of China to be very progressive and forward thinking, and capable), introduction of a broad based market system, the high entrepreneurialism of Chinese culture, the relative cultural homogeneity and unity of the majority of China (despite great regional differences, the values of Han Chinese culture are very central and broad), the long experience of China as a united centralized state, the high level of nationalism amongst Chinese and their desire to be considered a "great and powerful nation", and also a positive result of Communism, a society in which social advancement is readily possible (though huge gaps between rich and poor continue to widen).

[Styrian Mujo]

I think China's development path (which is not perfect, but so far has produced some incredible results) are specific to China's national conditions and will be difficult to be reproduced in other countries.

I think every country should develop a path of industrialization and development that is suited for their national conditions. For China, I think the reason why a country of its size has been able to develop and change so quickly are due to the authoritarian system led by a progressive party (Despite all their faults, I consider the current rulers of China to be very progressive and forward thinking, and capable), introduction of a broad based market system, the high entrepreneurialism of Chinese culture, the relative cultural homogeneity and unity of the majority of China (despite great regional differences, the values of Han Chinese culture are very central and broad), the long experience of China as a united centralized state, the high level of nationalism amongst Chinese and their desire to be considered a "great and powerful nation", and also a positive result of Communism, a society in which social advancement is readily possible (though huge gaps between rich and poor continue to widen).
Wow you are the first person to say that he likes his goverment. On a side note I think the communist party should rename it self or something because it's not funny anymore.

[zhaoyun]

Wow you are the first person to say that he likes his goverment. On a side note I think the communist party should rename it self or something because it's not funny anymore.

I don't like the PRC government, but I think they are capable and critical to this period of rapid change. There is a big difference. Ideally, I would prefer if China had another political system, however, that is not possible during this period due to socio-economic realities and also the need for development.

[Jewlian]

Very beautiful buildings, and they look very original compared to the most products that the just copy-paste.

[Watch_Owl]

Well done China for having good buildings.:thumb001:

[zhaoyun]

Shenzhen Before and After Pics 1980 vs 2013

http://www.alternativearchive.com/ouning/uploads/200911/30_234329_1981.jpg

http://www.alternativearchive.com/ouning/uploads/200911/30_140317_1983.jpg

Mid 80s

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/6120/661/1600/410767/old_shenzhen.jpg

http://www.sznews.com/news/content/images/site3/20070824/51533a1119280838872717.jpg

http://i.cdn.travel.cnn.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_large/public/article-images/large/biennale-old-shenzhen-large.jpg?itok=B4wYtxuv

2013

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7383/9407035233_f620ce3eb8_b.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XO6Y85e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DgnFpWL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PiJtYFE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OOzfbzT.jpg

[armenianbodyhair]

First off, if you want to be credible, don't use the word Chicom.

There are many areas of China that have experienced rampant development and buildings that stand empty. However, given the conditions of the country, I am sure these areas will be filled as well as about 400 million rural dwellers are going into the cities. Though the areas that typically stand empty are built more for the middle class.

However, there is a huge real estate bubble. Whether it's going to collapse, it's still too early to tell. However, it is getting really out of control in many large cities.

Again, China is a very large and very complex country, and you can say a 100 things about it that are totally contradictory and they are all probably true at some level, and untrue at another level.
not saying it's not exaggerated (because it is) but it is a problem because when building is not on demand and these cities are empty the chinese economy is going to crash and they could demand the money the US borrowed which would destroy the world economy. I doubt it would come to that but it is still not a good economic practice to base your economy on what you build rather than what the actual market dictates your economy to be.

[Carlito's Way]

China is awesome, i have been there some years back with my uncle and cousins, my uncle was doing business out there and he invited me to come with him so i can hang out with my cousins, the people are very nice, chinese chicas were very nice to me haha great people and very hard workers

[zhaoyun]

Development did not really get started in the interior until the 90s.

Chongqing in the 90s

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg64/z0rgggg/others2/20090825_6015da880c7561f3a2e7Emqm7X.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg64/z0rgggg/others2/20090826_04a97215db4127740457LFQ59K.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg64/z0rgggg/others2/20090825_6735ca1dcc61dfb1df53dGiBO8.jpg

http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/7050a8dftw1eb84bfy5nqj20c80c8ac2.jpg

Chongqing 2013 - 20 years later

http://bbs.upcd.org/data/attachment/forum/201403/31/153355lz627q2zl2d7ol2k.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3741/13209761533_6ee5ae9821_b.jpg

http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/842f871fjw1e4n10n4bwbj20ro0h943r.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9366945162_203da946e9_o.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2852/10269578173_a728b532d7_h.jpg

[GrebluBro]

not saying it's not exaggerated (because it is) but it is a problem because when building is not on demand and these cities are empty the chinese economy is going to crash and they could demand the money the US borrowed which would destroy the world economy. I doubt it would come to that but it is still not a good economic practice to base your economy on what you build rather than what the actual market dictates your economy to be.

These buildings don't really represent common Chinese people

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?120713-75-of-Chinese-96-of-Indians-are-as-poor-as-6-Ukrainian-poorest-majorEuro-if-we-use-global-compar

[Linebacker]

I thought this will be a delusional Loki thread.F me.

[GrebluBro]

I thought this will be a delusional Loki thread.F me.

This thread is indeed delusional..
Check this for reality

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?120713-75-of-Chinese-96-of-Indians-are-as-poor-as-6-Ukrainian-poorest-majorEuro-if-we-use-global-compar

[Linebacker]

This thread is indeed delusional..
Check this for reality

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?120713-75-of-Chinese-96-of-Indians-are-as-poor-as-6-Ukrainian-poorest-majorEuro-if-we-use-global-compar

You don't have to tell me.Delusion spreads like AIDS on this forum.Everybody is catching it.

[zhaoyun]

not saying it's not exaggerated (because it is) but it is a problem because when building is not on demand and these cities are empty the chinese economy is going to crash and they could demand the money the US borrowed which would destroy the world economy. I doubt it would come to that but it is still not a good economic practice to base your economy on what you build rather than what the actual market dictates your economy to be.

There are some areas where there is overbuilding and has led to empty cities, but those are usually in more provincial cities that it occurs. These photos are of major city centers that are very dense and not only are they not empty, but they are dense with population.

But I agree that their real estate market is out of control and it is a major threat to their economic growth if it is not reigned in properly. I think that, as well as the transition to a higher level of the development ladder, , managing rapid urbanization, as well as government corruption are the major challenges that China faces in the coming two decades.

[zhaoyun]

This thread is indeed delusional..
Check this for reality

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?120713-75-of-Chinese-96-of-Indians-are-as-poor-as-6-Ukrainian-poorest-majorEuro-if-we-use-global-compar

This thread is not delusional. Have you ever been to China? I have been to EVERY CITY that I have posted except for three.

This thread was about the rapid urbanization and modernization of China's cities. This has had an impact on a huge population larger than ANY COUNTRY except for India. There are about 700 Million living in China's cities.

China is a very big country, and there are many facets to it. This thread represents one facet of it, which is the reality for hundreds of millions of people. Larger than all of Europe's population, and all of the USA's population BTW. Of course, there are still 600 Million plus people who live in rural areas that are much poorer, and this is part of the reason why rapid urbanization is considered the most viable strategy to raising per capita living standards in the country as whole, and moving it up the developmental ladder.

You are delusional if you think these cities are just a show. It's reality. You can just go take a trip there anytime and see for yourself.

BTW, the chart you keep trotting around is based on DIRECT EXCHANGE RATES, which is not a very good measure of actual development. We also know that the Chinese govt is notorious for keeping their currency's value far undervalued. In reality, it should probably be worth about 20-30% more if it is allowed to float.

Again, take a trip over there yourself and tell me what you find. The truth is that these photos reflect the reality of rapid modernization, although the country is still as a whole in between developmental stages, so you will have a combination of the 19th, 20th, 21st and 22nd centuries all jumbled together.

[Kalimtari]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhUmLtlZpw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPQoj9t_AW8

both vids are very worth watching them

[zhaoyun]

Ive followed Martin Jacques works, and although, like a lot of British writers/authors, he sometimes engages in hyperbole, I think his cultural insights into the nature of China as a civilization state, its identity, and its worldviews are quite accurate and insightful.

China is very different from other nations in almost every measure. Its national conditions, its size, its experiences, its history, how long it's been a state, its identity, culture, civilization. It really is a world unto itself. It's very hard for those who have never been there or studied the country to really grasp the reality of it, it really is its own world.

[Visitor_22]

We need strong, developed and rich CHINA! :)

[Kalimtari]

Ive followed Martin Jacques works, and although, like a lot of British writers/authors, he sometimes engages in hyperbole, I think his cultural insights into the nature of China as a civilization state, its identity, and its worldviews are quite accurate and insightful.

China is very different from other nations in almost every measure. Its national conditions, its size, its experiences, its history, how long it's been a state, its identity, culture, civilization. It really is a world unto itself. It's very hard for those who have never been there or studied the country to really grasp the reality of it, it really is its own world.


very true

[Hexachordia]

The OP is something like a village hick, redneck. Urbanization of China is a great disaster!!!!

[Kalimtari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Dn0ZkRK64

ABSTRACT: Not all Chinese cities are alike, and these differences are reflected in the challenges posed by urbanization and the corresponding responses cities undertake. From a national perspective, however, similarities are essential for formulating broad urbanization strategies. Our research addresses this dilemma through a cluster analysis based on key word coding of principal tasks outlined in the 11th Five-Year Plans of 286 major cities in China. In effect, the Five-Year plan becomes a proxy survey instrument. Seven distinct clusters emerge, and an additional analysis using socio-economic data from the China City Statistical Yearbook is undertaken to further identify the defining characteristics of each cluster and prototypical cities within them (Jilin, Liuzhou, Zhuzhou, Nanping, Xinyu, Chengde and Mianyang). Finally, implications for national urban planning strategies are discussed.

SPEAKER BIO: Eric Heikkila is Professor and Director of International Initiatives at the School of Policy, Planning, and Development (SPPD) at the University of Southern California (USC), where he has been a member of the faculty for twenty-five years.

His research addresses a wide range of topics bearing on the geographical, economic, cultural and historical factors that influence urban development trajectories. He has applied spatial analysis, fuzzy sets and agent based modeling to study urban structure. Other aspects of his work include a more qualitative, policy oriented approach to urban development issues, especially in the context of the Asia Pacific region. He is conversant in several languages, including French and Mandarin, and has spent sabbatical leaves as a visiting scholar on separate occasions at National Taiwan University (Department of Geography), Peking University (Department of Urban and Environmental Sciences), and Chinese University of Hong Kong (Department of Geography and Resource Management). Shortly after joining USC, he became founding Executive Secretary of the Pacific Rim Council on Urban Development (PRCUD), a globally based non-governmental organization that continues to thrive under his initiative, and that organizes regular forums in host cities throughout the Asia Pacific region. As Director of International Initiatives, Dr. Heikkila has broad responsibility for planning and coordinating SPPD's global engagement.

[Kalimtari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqSdBqgnFk
The Chinese economy's ability to emerge from the global financial crisis seemingly unscathed while the United States slowly climbs out of recession bolsters a widespread image of a strong People's Republic of China (PRC) rising against the backdrop of a declining United States of America. Is China's rise to economic power inevitable? Former U.S. Under Secretary of Commerce, Frank Lavin argues that China's continued growth in power and affluence will bring challenges but not a new Cold War. (ref: 20130827KICUS)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0qNDOMeqFQ
Will China's rise lead to the end of capitalism? Will armies of robots replace the world's workforce? And will China be able to block Facebook and Google forever? Risk expert Ian Bremmer and Dr. Doom, Nouriel Roubini give their 2013 predictions for politics and the economy to Reuters Digital Editor Chrystia Freeland. (January 14, 2013)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=899CsZCWsC0
Through a series of absorbing portraits of iconic modern Chinese leaders and thinkers, two of today's foremost specialists on China provide a panoramic narrative of the nation's ascent from imperial doormat to global economic powerhouse in Wealth and Power: China's Long March to the Twenty-First Century (Random House).

The basic facts of China's rise to preeminence over the past three decades are well documented, but how did this erstwhile sleeping giant finally manage to arrive at its current phase of dynamic growth? How, after such a long and painful period of dynastic decline, intellectual upheaval and revolution, foreign occupation and civil war, did a country once derided as the "sick man of Asia" manage to break out of its old pattern of repeatedly failed reform efforts to burst forth onto the world stage with such an impressive run of hyperdevelopment and wealth creation?

By examining the lives of eleven influential officials, writers, activists, and leaders whose contributions helped create modern China, Wealth and Power addresses these questions. This survey begins in the lead-up to the first Opium War with Wei Yuan, the nineteenth-century scholar and reformer who was one of the first to urge China to borrow ideas from the West. It concludes in our time with human-rights advocate and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Liu Xiaobo, an outspoken opponent of single-party rule. Along the way, we meet such titans of Chinese history as the Empress Dowager Cixi, public intellectuals Feng Guifen, Liang Qichao, and Chen Duxiu, Nationalist stalwarts Sun Yat-sen and Chiang Kai-shek, and Communist Party leaders Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, and Zhu Rongji.

The common goal that unites all of these disparate figures is their determined pursuit of fuqiang 富强, shorthand for "wealth and power." This abiding quest for a restoration of national greatness in the face of a "century of humiliation" at the hands of the Great Powers came to define the modern Chinese character. It's what drove both Mao and Deng to embark on root-and-branch transformations of Chinese society, first by means of Marxism-Leninism, then by authoritarian capitalism. And this determined quest remains the key to understanding many of China's actions today.

By unwrapping the intellectual antecedents of today's resurgent China, Orville Schell and John Delury supply much-needed insight into the country's tortured progression from nineteenth-century decline to twenty-first-century boom. By looking backward into the past to understand forces at work for hundreds of years, they help us understand China today and the future that this singular country is helping shape for all of us.

Author

Orville Schell, author of many books, studied Chinese history at Harvard and Berkeley and has written for many publications, including The Atlantic, The New Yorker, Time, Foreign Affairs,The New York Review of Books, Harper's, and The New York Times. Formerly dean of the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, he is now the Arthur Ross Director of the Asia Society's Center on U.S.-China Relations in New York City. Schell is a member of the USC U.S.-China Institute's board of scholars.

Discussants

Geoffrey Cowan has long been an important force in education, communication, and public policy. Cowan became the first president of The Annenberg Foundation Trust at Sunnylands in 2010 and hosted the Xi Jinping/Barack Obama meeting there in June. Previously he was dean of the USC Annenberg School for a decade and headed the Voice of America during the Clinton administration. Cowan also heads the USC Annenberg Center on Communication Leadership and Policy. His co-authored play Top Secret has twice toured China.

Clayton Dube has headed the USC U.S.-China Institute since it was established by USC President C.L. Nikias in 2006. Dube was trained as an economic historian, lived in China for five years and visited dozens of times. Dube's long been committed to informing public discussion about China and about the U.S.-China relationship. He oversees the institute's magazines and documentary efforts and writes the institute's Talking Points newsletter and earlier edited the academic journal Modern China



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmfy56FgI3s
Speaker: Dr Keyu Jin
Chair: Professor Wouter Den Haan

Recorded on 29 January 2014 in Hong Kong Theatre, Clement House.

The CFM and Department of Economics lecture series focuses on topical macroeconomic questions. Its aim is to give an informative and balanced overview of available knowledge among macroeconomists. This talk considers China's growing role in the world economy.

Keyu Jin is a lecturer at LSE. Her research has focused on global imbalances and global asset prices, as well as international trade and growth.

Wouter Den Haan is professor of economics and co-director of the Centre for Macroeconomics at LSE

[Hexachordia]

I am sorry. Urbanization is built on massive land pollution and degradation of drinking water. Everything from drinking water to a handful soil is now priced to make political oligarchs richer and richer, making commons poorers and sicker. International bankers laughing at China, they know what is happening, they dont care a rat-ass about what happens to people in reality. I would rather opt for war of mutual destruction than this turdish world, bomb the US and Japan. Lets leave mother as green. I dont want all these fucking sky-squatters, filthy pieces of inferior concrete.

[Insuperable]

RussiaPrussia is probably jerking on this photos

[Hexachordia]

In the minds of government officers, there are only purely numbers of economy status, quotas, salary, greencards, cars. Fucking village rednecks thinking they know what is economy. They stole our rare earth, destroy our water reserve, loaning money to american war machine, retards. What is more needed to say? They dont sustain our livelihood, they work for the international bankers corporation exploiting chinese people. Marx and Lenin are greatest liars in history of humanity, government dopes people with this stupid pot, making people blaind to their black operations behind the sky-squatters. 70% OF THOSE infrastratures and building are useless, pure waste of money. It is a huge bloating bubble, bloody tumor within the nation. Our nation is traded to the USA bankers, communist government is a slave to the american bankers.

[zhaoyun]

In the minds of government officers, there are only purely numbers of economy status, quotas, salary, greencards, cars. Fucking village rednecks thinking they know what is economy. They stole our rare earth, destroy our water reserve, loaning money to american war machine, retards. What is more needed to say? They dont sustain our livelihood, they work for the international bankers corporation exploiting chinese people. Marx and Lenin are greatest liars in history of humanity, government dopes people with this stupid pot, making people blaind to their black operations behind the sky-squatters. 70% OF THOSE infrastratures and building are useless, pure waste of money. It is a huge bloating bubble, bloody tumor within the nation. Our nation is traded to the USA bankers, communist government is a slave to the american bankers.

I agree that corruption is the no. 1 problem facing modern China right now. Unfortunately when you combine huge transformations, an authoritarian government and also a wide gap in socio-economic standards through the population, it provides many opportunities for corruption.

Some of the other things you mentioned such as pollution and chaos, they are an inevitable part of industrialization. All of the developed economies went through something similar, of course, because China is so big, the effects are much larger.

I think China needs rule of law most importantly, democracy is not feasible right now.

[Loki]

Our nation is traded to the USA bankers, communist government is a slave to the american bankers.

Well, it might become the other way around. China is the one with the cash in hand now ... the US is deeply indebted.

[Hexachordia]

I agree that corruption is the no. 1 problem facing modern China right now. Unfortunately when you combine huge transformations, an authoritarian government and also a wide gap in socio-economic standards through the population, it provides many opportunities for corruption.

Some of the other things you mentioned such as pollution and chaos, they are an inevitable part of industrialization. All of the developed economies went through something similar, of course, because China is so big, the effects are much larger.

I think China needs rule of law most importantly, democracy is not feasible right now.

Communism has no law, I am happy you are quick to confirm the problems of China. Fazhi, you mean that? the rule of justice right? I think it is quite idealistic in China.
I had been optimistic, all the time I got disappointed. Democracy is requisite yes and need much much more preparation. In this case, it is better to share experiences with people.
Democratization is a huge social engineering, but in reality we are heading for huge social deconstruction, not only not getting started, we are leaving the course more and more.
The ideological preparation is not even in place, to shun the thought democracy is like to shun the needles of urgent injection. There will be pain, unstability, confusion, we still have to
go throught them. Not to shun the requisite sacrifice of democracy or communist will take place of progression, communism is always backward.

[Hexachordia]

Well, it might become the other way around. China is the one with the cash in hand now ... the US is deeply indebted.

US sucked our blood they wont pay for it. This is the american way, dont be naive.

[Loki]

US sucked our blood they wont pay for it. This is the american way, dont be naive.

They're already paying. Where else do you think China gets its cash from?

[Hexachordia]

They're already paying. Where else do you think China gets its cash from?

Real estate exploitation, inflation dued to bad loans, etc. Crap industry destroyed our environment and rised the price of medicine. Everyone not in the government relationship is suffering.
US loan will never be repaid, it is a kind of pledge to the USA that not to tax more on chinese products. People still have to work.

[Loki]

People still have to work.

Of course. No such thing as a free meal.

[Hexachordia]

Of course. No such thing as a free meal.

This is how we pay the parasites :picard1:

[zhaoyun]

Communism has no law, I am happy you are quick to confirm the problems of China. Fazhi, you mean that? the rule of justice right? I think it is quite idealistic in China.
I had been optimistic, all the time I got disappointed. Democracy is requisite yes and need much much more preparation. In this case, it is better to share experiences with people.
Democratization is a huge social engineering, but in reality we are heading for huge social deconstruction, not only not getting started, we are leaving the course more and more.
The ideological preparation is not even in place, to shun the thought democracy is like to shun the needles of urgent injection. There will be pain, unstability, confusion, we still have to
go throught them. Not to shun the requisite sacrifice of democracy or communist will take place of progression, communism is always backward.

Yeah. And what's your point?

Do you think the United States got to where it's at without paying the toll through blood? Do you think great nations are simply born from floating into greatness? No, all of that comes from great struggle and from blood and conflict.

I consider China right now to be similar to the US in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It is a huge and massive nation undergoing immense industrialization and social change. The US went through a Civil War, massive industrialization that blackened the skies of many industrial cities, great inequalities amongst the poor and rich, exploitation of labor (even child labor was once common in American factories), a great deal of government corruption (read up on the Chicago machine), the Civil Rights Movement, great social revolutions, two World Wars, to eventually transform into the society it is today.

China right now is a product in the making, it is NOT a finished product. The Chinese government has pushed policies that have engendered massive transformations, but I see the good in this because these transformations will eventually allow the socio-economic changes that will create the consciousness in the Chinese people to wrest away power from the government and unto the people. Right now, there are massive protests all over China, and rightly so, because people should fight for their rights and against government exploitation. This is part of the change for the rule of law. The Rule of Law is not going to come from the Communist Party, it will come from the demands of the people, and it will also come from the fact that greater economic opportunities are creating higher educational, social and economic standards for the majority of people. The latter is the major factor that I believe will eventually make the rule of law tenable in China, and maybe in the far off future, perhaps a workable democracy.

I think because you are in China, and your focus is mainly on the issues in China, you do not have an accurate point of reference in comparing China's experience with those of other countries. I compare China's experience with what the US, and many other nations have gone through, luckily, I've also had a chance to travel to many countries from the US, to all over China, to Europe, to the Middle East and I've been able to compare the realities in all of these places combined with a deep knowledge of world history and socio-economic trends, I can tell you that nowhere on earth can you find the massive social and economic changes that are transforming China.

[zhaoyun]

Updating this thread. New report by Oxford Economics confirms the size and scale of China's rapid urbanization.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-08/chinese-hubs-rise-in-oxford-economics-2030-gdp-ranking-cities.html

[Anglojew]

Still shitting in the streets though


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Dp83h4Gt4

[King Claus]

I've seen a documentary about this. Basically there are very rich men investing trillions on these shit holes. I must say that the transformations of these cities look quite impressive though.

[Anglojew]

The Chinese generally like to dress well, like good food, music, culture etc. They're great people. I admire their rapid progress. Well done Chinese. Just don't colonise Australia.

[zhaoyun]

Still shitting in the streets though

]

Jew troll gotta Jew troll. LOL

Honestly, with as many bad manners that most Chinese rural migrants have such as littering, spitting, and just being obnoxious in general, I've never seen anybody shit on the streets. Though of course, I'm sure it happens, but it's definitely not anything commonplace.

In my San Francisco office, there are a couple homeless people around who defecate in public every other day and it draws a mini spectable at times. But they definitely are not the norm.

[Hexachordia]

The Chinese generally like to dress well, like good food, music, culture etc. They're great people. I admire their rapid progress. Well done Chinese. Just don't colonise Australia.

Chinatownese are no chinese, they are rats. I would like to exchange services to each other like: China will not defend chinatownese let you deal with them in anyway; Westerners never to invade east Asia. :thumb001:

To realize this we need to purge unfit people like big brother Stalin did. :bored:

[Hexachordia]

Still shitting in the streets though


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Dp83h4Gt4

This is what communism does to peoples mind, communism encourages stupidity, tramples wisdom.

[Hexachordia]

Also the nationalists worldwide should unite for exterminating the vagrant ethnics, people, lest these people will gather en mass to conquer civilizations.

[Rudel]

China is really an empire, most of these places are as vast and different from one another as whole countries.
China has always been an empire, as well as a civilization and a world of itself.
I'm actually very jealous. My people has had to fight with its neighbours forever and never really got to expend and iterate.
Chinese have been fighting between themselves but never have had their civilization interrupted, even during the Yuan dynasty (Mongol invasion). In contrast the Roman civilization (which was comparable to China in wealth and development in its time) completely collapsed and it had to be rebuilt from the ground up.


But the scale of urbanization throughout the size of this country is really revolutionary, it is unseen in history the vastness and scale of transformation.
It impressive visually but it's not that much if you think about it for a minute. China purely and simply caught up to the rest of the world (much easier now with the communication technologies that make tech transfers almost instantaneous) to get back to its natural rank.

[Selurong]

I was recently browsing through some online skyscraper forums, came across photos of many Chinese cities. I've been to many of these, but a lot of times when I think back about China's development, it's always insane to me how fast and how big many of these cities have become. 30 plus years ago when China emerged from Communism, most of its cities were less developed than even many third world countries, including many SSA countries because of the deprivation of Communism and the Cultural Revolution. Since then they've undergone a massive development which now leads to other issues such as pollution, a real estate bubble, massive consumption of resources, etc. But it has also enriched so many peoples' lives even though the gap between the rich and poor have increased. Ive personally met many individuals who have become extremely wealthy due to their earnings in Chinese real estate.

A good article about the future of China's urbanization, which is really astounding, it is one of the greatest transformations in the world today, it is on a scale that is unmatched anywhere in history or anywhere in the world currently.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-25/6-dot-8-trillion-price-tag-for-chinas-urbanization

Here are some photos of China's largest cities.

Shanghai - One of my favorite cities in the world, a city I am very familiar with. I almost relocated here permanently. I might have become very wealthy if I did when I was hoping to. :/

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/12532808554_833d0cd3a5_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3787/12616440543_6d98f8ba1b_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5486/12513694913_03bc1100ff_b.jpg

Chongqing

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9366945162_203da946e9_o.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2846/10275394574_76c7a750c8_b.jpg

Nanjing

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2885/9049292844_8028b9bce8_o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/grdt1Vm.jpg

Guangzhou

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Lvwo2000/Guangzhou%20city%20China/GuangzhoucityChina37.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2772/13006670725_ca5dd69849_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/9561819072_48c9b14aa4_o.jpg

http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/76d4377dtw1dvaprxpygmj.jpg

Of the cities you mentioned, I like Nanjing the most. It was the former Imperial capital and was the most devastated city in the wars that has plagued China. Their rise from fall is a good story to boot. What province from China are you from? My Chinese ancestor on my father's mother side was a Lim from Fuijan province.

[zhaoyun]

China has always been an empire, as well as a civilization and a world of itself.
I'm actually very jealous. My people has had to fight with its neighbours forever and never really got to expend and iterate.
Chinese have been fighting between themselves but never have had their civilization interrupted, even during the Yuan dynasty (Mongol invasion). In contrast the Roman civilization (which was comparable to China in wealth and development in its time) completely collapsed and it had to be rebuilt from the ground up.


It impressive visually but it's not that much if you think about it for a minute. China purely and simply caught up to the rest of the world (much easier now with the communication technologies that make tech transfers almost instantaneous) to get back to its natural rank.

True. I often compare China with Rome because both arose as major empires during the same period (China was unified for the first time as Rome was established) and were comparable in advancement at the time. But Rome collapsed, while China continued and expanded its empire, which remains to this day. China is basically the East Asian equivalent of a modern Roman Empire, its not just a state, or a nation, it is a civilization within a state.

[zhaoyun]

Of the cities you mentioned, I like Nanjing the most. It was the former Imperial capital and was the most devastated city in the wars that has plagued China. Their rise from fall is a good story to boot. What province from China are you from? My Chinese ancestor on my father's mother side was a Lim from Fuijan province.

My ancestry is from Anhui, Fujian and Shaanxi. So we might have some related blood. A lot of people from Fujian went to the Philippines.

[King Claus]

Still shitting in the streets though


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Dp83h4Gt4

I think that I've found his wife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHiBrLLwwko

[Selurong]

My ancestry is from Anhui, Fujian and Shaanxi. So we might have some related blood. A lot of people from Fujian went to the Philippines.

Ah I see that you mostly have Mandarin ancestry. We'll the only place in China we're Filipinos back-migrate to is Hong-Kong and before that, the port of Guangzhou.

There are also many people with Filipino ancestry in Shandong province. I.E. Huang Paduka Pahala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paduka_Pahala)

He was the Huang (King) of the Sulu Sultanate (Before it became a Sultanate) and was in a diplomatic mission towards the Huang-di (Emperor or High-King) of China, before he died in Shangdong province. His descendants are surnamed Wen and An.


Some Chinese who migrated to the Philippines were actually Filipinos who had previously migrated to China. I.E. the Sy family (Sy is a transliteration of the Si word which is often a prefix to a first name much like "kun" or "san" is a an affix to a first name in Japan. Since family names are pronounced first in China and first names, second... The introductory word "Si" pre-fixed to a given first name was confused as a family name, and thus the Sy family of China was born)

Ako SI Rene (Meaning I am Rene, "Si" being a prefix to a first name used as an introduction) was translated as (Family name here) then first name.

Thus, the Sy family of Fuijan province, also, came about. They were originally Filipino traders that were Sinified, when they back-migrated to the Philippines, they became Chinese. When in China, they were considered Filipinos. Lulz.

I love researching this sort of stuff.

They're like the Ong family. The Ong family used to be Chinese. Ong Sung Pim a was Chinese Prince who was married to a Bruneian Princess. When they begot children they became Malay over time. During the Islamization of Brunei they were driven from power and migrated back to China where they were considered Bruneians instead of Chinese, when they finally returned to Southeast Asia, they were considered Chinese again. Lulz.

What's your family name? Are you a Wen or An? In which case your a Filipino with Chinese ancestry.Are you a Sy or Ong? In which case you are someone who changes nationality and ancestry every once in a while.

[Geni]

uau China... incredible..bravo..

[Selurong]

_____

Did you know? That the Fuijan province of China had many foreign traders in it?

Fujian became a key supplier of rice to the region following the introduction of a fast-ripening variety, called Champa rice, from Southeast Asia.

Fuijan province had commercial links with the Champa civilization in the south who were Hindus.

It also became the major producer of sugarcane, fruit, and tea. Because of the importance of trade to the Nan Song, the province was also important as a shipbuilding and commercial centre for both overseas and coastal trade. The port of Quanzhou, known to the Venetian traveler Marco Polo as Zaitun, was one of the world’s great ports in this period, with more than 100,000 Arab traders living in the area

SOURCE: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/221639/Fujian/71268/History

It's no wonder that most Chinese who venture out of China comes from Fuijan province. The place where most adventurers from out of China, venture into China.

[RussiaPrussia]

Still shitting in the streets though


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Dp83h4Gt4

you do realize there one billion chinese?

[RussiaPrussia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3XfpYxHKCo It seems they are simply building irrationally so that they can keep their slaves busy, and tired. I wager the Chi Coms are getting nervous up on the pedestal about now, what with the unrest in the Far West, and the West's economy about to really tank when the Petrodollar implodes.

so what and western countries have a stock market bubble

america
http://shchart.finanzen.net/chart.gfx?chartType=1&time=100000&height=200&width=300&&overTime=2&subProperty=1&volumeUnit=0&lateIndex=1&valor=998313&

http://shchart.finanzen.net/chart.gfx?chartType=1&time=100000&height=200&width=300&&overTime=2&subProperty=1&volumeUnit=0&lateIndex=1&valor=998356&


china

http://shchart.finanzen.net/chart.gfx?chartType=1&time=100000&height=200&width=300&strSymbol=&overTime=2&subProperty=1&volumeUnit=0&lateIndex=1&valor=257111&

http://shchart.finanzen.net/chart.gfx?chartType=1&time=100000&height=200&width=300&strSymbol=&overTime=2&subProperty=1&volumeUnit=0&lateIndex=1&valor=2118391&

http://shchart.finanzen.net/chart.gfx?chartType=1&time=100000&height=200&width=300&strSymbol=&overTime=2&subProperty=1&volumeUnit=0&lateIndex=1&valor=998396&

[zhaoyun]

Reviving an old thread but came across these city photos:

Beijing

http://www.fansimg.com/forum/201406/10/085442jhtbz0993zaafyra.jpg

http://www.fansimg.com/forum/201501/07/180455y77gvtc4wtzafvcr.jpg

http://www.fansimg.com/forum/201411/10/071009tg81xceu51fnx958.jpg

http://www.fansimg.com/forum/201412/26/152740xayc441413424ua1.jpg

http://www.fansimg.com/forum/201412/26/153428osq7gvrcc3dxw75c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7535/16299944485_bc3c9110bb_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7529/16142571640_7a13ee034c_b.jpg



Shanghai

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8661/15867628092_4eeaf2c81e_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7472/15868293455_31544ff736_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8658/16300161105_b080d8a916_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7548/16089843318_285c3d31ed_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7289/16400289491_ea0f0f1772_b.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/July2014/bf51b23egw1ena8vcrshmj20sg0fh43k.jpg~original

[zhaoyun]

Sanya, Hainan Province

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7513/16215168696_848ec2d1ee_b.jpg

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Lvwo2000/Sanya%20City%20China/sanya2.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/July2014/609a75c9gw1ek8tbsnpzaj21jk0rzkaj.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7056/6870505353_205869d3b1_b.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/July2014/609a75c9gw1ek8tgm46kjj20zk0m7apz.jpg

Xi'an, Shaanxi Province

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3906/15209696691_ed989c33e9_b.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3927/15353298598_b4ef828e89_b.jpg

http://www.fansimg.com/forum/201404/05/212652i8w2vrqex7ph8ypr.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/13980659124_02dbf0f6ae_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/14180962171_6418db2528_b.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5513/14204383283_200d92a9b5_b.jpg

http://www.justxa.com/data/attachment/forum/201406/19/200935k1nkrtttm1vzf49n.jpg

[zhaoyun]

Yinchuan, capital of the Hui Muslim Province of Ningxia

http://i59.tinypic.com/opmpa1.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/r7n4b8.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/9568861746_52333901c5_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3686/9283145947_e0bb70ba4c_b.jpg

http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/27917951.jpg

http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/27886793.jpg

http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/19265303.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/ea229a01e02599271c95836f.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/306bc4032dae57cd08fa939b.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/800px-YinchuanMosque2.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/374c684577662273.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/200704071213334401364.jpg

[zhaoyun]

Harbin - Northeastern China

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/16368870741_4317c41975_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7412/15779059624_9c0be556c3_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7381/16377376215_58e806fae7_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5513/10946238843_94c6e19a39_b.jpg

https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5496/12612863503_d60a839fdb_b.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3831/12612747025_5e04ae8b3f_b.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5153/14298756761_b444bdbee5_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2897/14485355833_0ed880ac76_b.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5506/14486008503_fa7a09ebfa_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2916/14798518085_027cff498e_b.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5579/14798502725_6ba953c9a4_b.jpg

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20130106/0023ae6cf3691253183608.jpg

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20130106/0023ae6cf3691253170d04.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8530/8461539244_8fbbe78566_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8450262446_3f153db1ed_b.jpg

http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/5165ae1db3fc4b92fe0000a1_china-wood-sculpture-museum-mad-architects_china_wood_sculpture_museum_by_xiazhi_-1-.jpg

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Lvwo2000/Harbin%20City%20China/HarbinChina11.jpg

[Loki]

China is really going to leave the rest of the world behind with its ever-increasing modernity and wealth. The rest of the world's big countries will just be able to watch in envy as China becomes a huge, sparklingly rich country. Amazing what happened in only a few decades. What will China be like in 100 years from now? It will probably rule the world's economy at least.

[zhaoyun]

China is really going to leave the rest of the world behind with its ever-increasing modernity and wealth. The rest of the world's big countries will just be able to watch in envy as China becomes a huge, sparklingly rich country. Amazing what happened in only a few decades. What will China be like in 100 years from now? It will probably rule the world's economy at least.

Well, I think China is still quite behind the West in per capita development, but will likely catch up within the next 30-40 years in that regard. However, given it's huge size, China will likely become the primary economic and financial power in the world very soon.

[Loki]

The Han is also strongly colonizing Xinjiang it seems, and could soon be a majority there. The Han makes up 75% of the population of Urumqi, the capital. There will be no independence for that region ... they'll just have to get used to it, and be happy to live in the country that will rule the world. The Uyghurs might even come to be seen as the most prosperous Turkic people in the world. Vladimir Putin had a great plan to rebuild the war-ravaged city of Grozny. I think Uyghur separatist feelings might wane in the same manner of the Chechens in Russia. Chechens are now even fighting as volunteers for the pro-Russian Ukrainians! :eek:

ISIS won't stand a chance to grow in that part of the Muslim world:

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-about-declare-war-against-isis-12201

[Loki]

Well, I think China is still quite behind the West in per capita development, but will likely catch up within the next 30-40 years in that regard. However, given it's huge size, China will likely become the primary economic and financial power in the world very soon.

It's just a matter of time ...

[zhaoyun]

The Han is also strongly colonizing Xinjiang it seems, and could soon be a majority there. The Han makes up 75% of the population of Urumqi, the capital. There will be no independence for that region ... they'll just have to get used to it, and be happy to live in the country that will rule the world. The Uyghurs might even come to be seen as the most prosperous Turkic people in the world. Vladimir Putin had a great plan to rebuild the war-ravaged city of Grozny. I think Uyghur separatist feelings might wane in the same manner of the Chechens in Russia. Chechens are now even fighting as volunteers for the pro-Russian Ukrainians! :eek:

ISIS won't stand a chance to grow in that part of the Muslim world:

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-about-declare-war-against-isis-12201

Well, ISIS will barely expand beyond it's remote desert region because they are barbaric bloodthirsty savages and the vast majority of sane people, Muslim or not, will not want to be ruled by them.

The tensions in Xinjiang are quite tense. I've been there before. Northern Xinjiang is a bit better because the Uighurs there are more assimilated, but tensions are quite high in Southern Xinjiang which is the Uighur stronghold. It is hard to say how things will turn out, but unfortunately or not, I think Uighurs are facing no choice but to assimilate into the larger mainstream society if they are to succeed. There are already a lot of young professional Uighurs working in Urumqi.

[zhaoyun]

It's just a matter of time ...

Well, the only reason why China has not been the primary economic power was because it was sleeping. Now that it's awake, it's potential should be commensurate to it's size and capacity.

[Loki]

Well, ISIS will barely expand beyond it's remote desert region because they are barbaric bloodthirsty savages and the vast majority of sane people, Muslim or not, will not want to be ruled by them.


There are Islamist groups all over the world who are now affiliating with ISIS. Most recently I heard about Libya, Boko Haram in Nigeria and if I remember correctly Indonesia as well. I think most most Muslims hate them though, but it seems surprisingly easy for Muslims to become radicalized. It all depends on the local imams' attitudes I guess.

[zhaoyun]

Images of China's vast High Speed Rail infrastructure. Quite astounding as in the 80's, China was the only country on earth still using steam locomotives. Fast forward to 2007, China debuted it's first high speed rail line, and since then has built over 19,000 km of HSR, with another 16,000 scheduled for the next few years. This is more than the rest of the world's HSR lines COMBINED.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/newsphoto/2010-12-14/450/CC07X0578H_2010%E8%B3%87%E6%96%99%E7%85%A7%E7%89%8 7_N71_copy1.JPG

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd324/bdpopeye/1-1058.jpg

http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/10/Tianjin-West-Railway-Station-gmp-Architekten-7.jpg

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20110616/0023ae606e660f63bd0a0b.jpg

http://www.sc.xinhuanet.com/content/2014-07/15/1111628744_14054150931871n.jpg

http://www.sc.xinhuanet.com/content/2014-07/15/1111628744_14054150929211n.jpg

http://www.sc.xinhuanet.com/content/2014-06/23/1111272092_14035089697961n.jpg

http://www.xj.xinhuanet.com/photo/2014-09/29/1112674110_14119587162061n.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/davidwei01017/88f89f49gw1eky03nh8b1j20fa0bhgms.jpg~original

http://news.cnr.cn/native/city/201411/W020141105635818484496.jpg

http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2014-11/08/127191851_14154486056651n.jpg

http://gb.cri.cn/mmsource/images/2014/11/16/52/378378016715494064.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/26096wo.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/11vmbv5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WBQ1dfn.png

http://i.imgur.com/fMwRs7G.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bF1TLnl.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/102qm9z.jpg

[zhaoyun]

http://i62.tinypic.com/1zzry3a.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/35cnczn.jpg

http://nm.people.com.cn/NMediaFile/2014/1114/LOCAL201411141520000460156312619.jpg

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/img/attachement/jpg/site1/20140623/0023ae82ca0f1511a7f81b.jpg

http://www.prc-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/New-Guangzhou-OCT-2009-JC-0051.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/27/business/TRAIN/TRAIN-articleLarge.jpg

http://www.rzb.de/assets/images/projects/images/WO_Bahnhof_Guangzhou_1.jpg

[Anthony PV]

I dislike the monstrous urbanization China is undertaking and I wonder about the consequences it could have on its own environment... It's not my job to tell Chinese who live in China how to think and what to do but just because Westerners built big cities and live inside them doesn't mean Chinese have to imitate them... It's not a competition about who's building the highest skyscraper or the most of them... However, some of the pics shown here are quite beautiful.

[zhaoyun]

I dislike the monstrous urbanization China is undertaking and I wonder about the consequences it could have on its own environment... It's not my job to tell Chinese who live in China how to think and what to do but just because Westerners built big cities and live inside them doesn't mean Chinese have to imitate them... It's not a competition about who's building the highest skyscraper or the most of them... However, some of the pics shown here are quite beautiful.

Well, the consequences are already here. Massive pollution and environmental degradation. It's all in the process of industrialization but given China's huge size, the scale is far bigger than what has been experienced in smaller Western countries during their period of industrialization. However, the fact is that China does not have much choices, either, it industrializes and urbanizes rapidly to become a modern country, or stay a dirt poor largely agrarian country.

Anyways, China is still going through a huge transformation. I think in the next 1 to 2 generations, it will move up the economic and wealth ladder, start to clean up it's environment and probably create smarter and higher quality cities and urban environments.

[Jana]

China will denfinitelly overtake the west, it has numbers, wealth, industry, everything. It would be returning to the past actually since Chinese civilisation was advanced while most of others were Barbarians :D

I wouldn't like to live in there, but would like to visit. Lot of cultural heritage has been destroyed by communist party, and massive urbanization made many ugly mega cities where I imagine quality of life is low, and scenery is depressing. Just look at Pearl River Delta, it's quantity over quality. But Chinese educational system seems excellent, I Know HK students have best PISA results in the world and many overtook Cali Universities.....

Fascinating country, just the commies have no sense of estetics

[zhaoyun]

China will denfinitelly overtake the west, it has numbers, wealth, industry, everything. It would be returning to the past actually since Chinese civilisation was advanced while most of others were Barbarians :D

I wouldn't like to live in there, but would like to visit. Lot of cultural heritage has been destroyed by communist party, and massive urbanization made many ugly mega cities where I imagine quality of life is low, and scenery is depressing. Just look at Pearl River Delta, it's quantity over quality. But Chinese educational system seems excellent, I Know HK students have best PISA results in the world and many overtook Cali Universities.....

Fascinating country, just the commies have no sense of estetics

Yes, unfortunately because China is so huge and is coming from such a poor level of development until recently, the rush towards industrialization has been more about scale than quality. This will probably change in the future as the per capita wealth moves up the ladder. It's all part of the different stages of industrialization and development.

And yes, Communist aesthetics are a nightmare.

[Leto]

It is hard to say how things will turn out, but unfortunately or not, I think Uighurs are facing no choice but to assimilate into the larger mainstream society if they are to succeed. There are already a lot of young professional Uighurs working in Urumqi.
I think they still can retain their language and have some autonomy within China.

[zhaoyun]

I think they still can retain their language and have some autonomy within China.

That's the current situation, I hope they can because they have a beautiful culture, and it would be a shame if they are totally assimilated.

[Anthony PV]

Well, the consequences are already here. Massive pollution and environmental degradation. It's all in the process of industrialization but given China's huge size, the scale is far bigger than what has been experienced in smaller Western countries during their period of industrialization. However, the fact is that China does not have much choices, either, it industrializes and urbanizes rapidly to become a modern country, or stay a dirt poor largely agrarian country.

Anyways, China is still going through a huge transformation. I think in the next 1 to 2 generations, it will move up the economic and wealth ladder, start to clean up it's environment and probably create smarter and higher quality cities and urban environments.

Meh, what's wrong with dirt poor agrarian countries, anyway? Big city dwellers may be more formally educated and more sophisticated than farmers... But farmers who live in harsher and more demanding conditions (like those of dirt poor agrarian countries) tend to be tougher, more self-reliant and more resourceful than your typical yuppie... :p

And, once again, just because Westerners undertook the road of industrialization and urbanization doesn't mean Chinese have to follow the same road... Throughout history, empires rose and fell, big cities appeared and disappeared but peasants who knew how to live off the land lasted and continued to survive... After the fall of Rome, it was the plebeian hardened by farmwork who survived the barbarian invasions... Not the decadent patrician living in the big city who wasted his time in orgies... :p

[zhaoyun]

Meh, what's wrong with dirt poor agrarian countries, anyway? Big city dwellers may be more formally educated and more sophisticated than farmers... But farmers who live in harsher and more demanding conditions (like those of dirt poor agrarian countries) tend to be tougher, more self-reliant and more resourceful than your typical yuppie... :p

And, once again, just because Westerners undertook the road of industrialization and urbanization doesn't mean Chinese have to follow the same road... Throughout history, empires rose and fell, big cities appeared and disappeared but peasants who knew how to live off the land lasted and continued to survive... After the fall of Rome, it was the plebeian hardened by farmwork who survived the barbarian invasions... Not the decadent patrician living in the big city who wasted his time in orgies... :p

My comment was not intended to insult farmers. I am in favor of more salt of the earth types myself, than urbanites who may be pretentious and materialistic. However, the fact is that if a country is not competitive with others (being an industrial and economic power), it will likely end up being devoured and preyed upon by more powerful players. Frankly, that was China's experience in it's introduction to the modern age as it was often the victim of Western countries and Japan because it was backward and weak.

[SupaThug]

I am a member of skyscrapercity(a skyscraper,city stuff forum) and people there always post photos of those stunning chinese cities,it's incredible,I like urban masses :) The most impressing one IMO is Chongqing because this city is not very know outside China but it has an awsome skyline.Pudong in Shanghai is quite impressing too.

[Anthony PV]

My comment was not intended to insult farmers. I am in favor of more salt of the earth types myself, than urbanites who may be pretentious and materialistic. However, the fact is that if a country is not competitive with others (being an industrial and economic power), it will likely end up being devoured and preyed upon by more powerful players. Frankly, that was China's experience in it's introduction to the modern age as it was often the victim of Western countries and Japan because it was backward and weak.

I didn't think you meant to insult farmers, I'm just saying that China should study the side effects industrialization and urbanization brought to Westerners instead of automatically undergoing the same path. I think the appearance and the rise in popularity of 'Marxism', 'communism', 'socialism', etc. was not caused by 'capitalism' but rather by all the social upheavals the Industrial Revolution and the urbanization that followed brought to Westerners. When people became anonymous and disposable factory workers in the emerging big cities, they left behind not only their homes, their farms, their lands, their villages, etc.; they also left behind their families, their friends, their clans, their tribes, etc. The only 'social glue' that binded people who are now complete strangers to one another became 'money'...

Sure, industrialization and urbanization made Westerners powerful... But, in a way, it also destroyed the fabric of their societies... As for China being victim of Western countries and Japan because of its lack of modernization, I think the story is more complicated than that...