Maternal & Paternal DNA Origins in Ireland

[Neon Knight]

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/11/21/the-genographic-project-returns-to-ireland-to-reveal-dna-results/

Interesting that the same DNA comes from Iberia and southern Germany:

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/11/GENOGRAPHIC_Europe-Maternal-Map-rev-3-600x718.jpg

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/11/GENOGRAPHIC_Europe-Paternal-Map-1-600x718.jpg

[Anglojew]

I think the same people inhabited the whole of West Europe during the Neolithic period.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/11/GENOGRAPHIC_Europe-Paternal-Map-1-600x718.jpg

There is a chance that I1a & R1a haplogroups are actually earlier to the British Islands than R1b is.

R1b haplpgroup is higher in Eastern Ireland where there was more Viking expansion!

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jim.fleming/images/R1b_large_RG.jpg

[Argang]

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/11/21/the-genographic-project-returns-to-ireland-to-reveal-dna-results/

Interesting that the same DNA comes from Iberia and southern Germany

Different subclades though. Aren't the oldest "Celtic" variants of R1b currently from France?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I think the same people inhabited the whole of West Europe during the Neolithic period.

[Neon Knight]

Bear in mind that maternal and paternal DNA only give a small part of the picture. We know that the Irish have more overlap with the British than any other populations.

[Cail]

12% paternal vs 7% maternal sounds reasonable for the Viking/Germanic ancestry (obviously more males had migrated then females). Complete lack of hunter-gatherer paternal is unusual - any other possible explanation other than Neolithic Celtic/Proto-Celtic newcomers exterminating all local hunter-gatherer males?

[Argang]

Complete lack of hunter-gatherer paternal is unusual - any other possible explanation other than Neolithic Celtic/Proto-Celtic newcomers exterminating all local hunter-gatherer males?

Since I and C1 are the only paternals so far found in mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, they could very well have some. The NatGeo people probably didn't know it when completing that study, because the studies (including Y-DNA results for Loschbour, Motala and La Braña HG's) were published as recently as December 2013 and January 2014.

[Aldaris]

Actually, haplogroup HV (the ancestral haplogroup to haplogroup H and haplogroup V) and even H have been found among the paleolithic people aswell, so some of these samples marked as neolithic could have been paleolithic (hunter-gatherers). U has been the most common during the paleolithic era though.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I find it funny that there's 16% paleolithic female mtdna but 0% male y-dna. So seriously, there was not one male line that survived? I don't find that too likely.

[Kale]

Naa...there was definitely some I there before the middle ages.

[Fire Haired]

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/11/21/the-genographic-project-returns-to-ireland-to-reveal-dna-results/

Interesting that the same DNA comes from Iberia and southern Germany:

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/11/GENOGRAPHIC_Europe-Maternal-Map-rev-3-600x718.jpg

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/11/GENOGRAPHIC_Europe-Paternal-Map-1-600x718.jpg

No this means nothing. National geographic made a very simple guess that most people who are interested in this know like the back of their hand. All mtDNA U5, U4, U2, U8(K-) U* lineages in Ireland most likely descend from Upper Palaeolithic/Mesolithic Europeans. All other west Eurasian lineages like H, J, T, K, X, I, U3 etc. most likely descend from early European farmers who brought those lineages from the near east. All Y DNA I in Ireland probably descends from Upper Palaeolithic/Mesolithic Europeans at some point, some subclades like I2a1 may actualley be descended from Mesolithic Irish. I1 and I2a2 in Ireland are probably mainly descended from later migrations mainly during the Iron age with Germanic people like Anglo Saxons and Vikings. There is also an I2a2 subclade that has been in the British isles since at least the bronze age.

National geographic took only something like 100 samples, very pathetic. An Irish person can do a little research on the internet for just a day and find better information than what national geographic gave them in over 2 months. This was just propaganda, they want to make money.

Those arrows just represent migrations from mainland Europe, no one knows which route pre historic people took to Ireland, except archaeologist probably have some good theories.

[Aldaris]

I find it funny that there's 16% paleolithic female mtdna but 0% male y-dna. So seriously, there was not one male line that survived? I don't find that too likely.

Some of those R1 and I are of paleolithic origin. There has been a DNA test of a paleolithic boy and his haplogroup was R1.

[Fire Haired]

Some of those R1 and I are of paleolithic origin. There has been a DNA test of a paleolithic boy and his haplogroup was R1.

No he had Y DNA R* i am pretty sure he had his own subclade but have not been able to read the paper. Even if some Upper Palaeolithic/Mesolithic Europeans had some Y DNA R, modern R in Europe is not descended of it. Modern R in Europe is mainly from recent Indo European migrations, and those Indo Europeans may have received much or all of it from Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic Europeans or their close relatives in asia.

[gold_fenix]

I think the same people inhabited the whole of West Europe during the Neolithic period.

i am agree but i think even was before, it is curious some Spaniards we show British DNA and other British Iberian DNA

Before of Celts in the Atlantic zone existed a common culture litle known , i would like to know more about there but there very few vestiges

[Anglojew]

i am agree but i think even was before, it is curious some Spaniards we show British DNA and other British Iberian DNA

Before of Celts in the Atlantic zone existed a common culture litle known , i would like to know more about there but there very few vestiges


Basically Basque I think.

[Aldaris]

No he had Y DNA R* i am pretty sure he had his own subclade but have not been able to read the paper. Even if some Upper Palaeolithic/Mesolithic Europeans had some Y DNA R, modern R in Europe is not descended of it. Modern R in Europe is mainly from recent Indo European migrations, and those Indo Europeans may have received much or all of it from Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic Europeans or their close relatives in asia.

I'm not sure I understand. You have written - "even if some Upper Palaeolithic/Mesolithic Europeans had some Y DNA R, modern R in Europe is not descended of it, modern R in Europe is mainly from recent Indo European migrations" and "Indo Europeans may have received much or all of it from Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic Europeans or their close relatives in asia". Aren't those two statements contradicting each other?

[Fire Haired]

I'm not sure I understand. You have written - "even if some Upper Palaeolithic/Mesolithic Europeans had some Y DNA R, modern R in Europe is not descended of it, modern R in Europe is mainly from recent Indo European migrations" and "Indo Europeans may have received much or all of it from Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic Europeans or their close relatives in asia". Aren't those two statements contradicting each other?

There is no evidence that Y DNA R was distributed in Europe like it is today even as far back as the Neolithic, and ancient Y DNA has proven this. Even if there was some R in Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic Europe that does not mean modern R in Europe directly descended from it. Modern R in Europe is mainly from recent Indo European migrations. It may been that R1a was exclusive to eastern European hunter gatherers during the Mesolithic but it did not become dominate as far west as Poland until the copper and bronze ages, and nearlly all modern R1a descends from recent Indo European migrations.

[Stimpy]

I find it funny that there's 16% paleolithic female mtdna but 0% male y-dna. So seriously, there was not one male line that survived? I don't find that too likely.
At least if you go by the 'out of Africa' theory, the rare but purely European Y-DNA C-V20 is almost certainly the oldest European haplogroup arriving probably about 50 000 years ago, this also makes sense since other populations who supposedly also went out of Africa early on like Aboriginals and Ainu also carry other C subclades. The second oldest paternal haplogroup is most likely Y-DNA I arriving about 30,000 years ago.
This is of course very simplified though since human migration is extremely, extremely complicated and we know relatively little about it.

[Aldaris]

There is no evidence that Y DNA R was distributed in Europe like it is today even as far back as the Neolithic, and ancient Y DNA has proven this. Even if there was some R in Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic Europe that does not mean modern R in Europe directly descended from it. Modern R in Europe is mainly from recent Indo European migrations. It may been that R1a was exclusive to eastern European hunter gatherers during the Mesolithic but it did not become dominate as far west as Poland until the copper and bronze ages, and nearlly all modern R1a descends from recent Indo European migrations.

Yeah, I agree with the Indo-European migration thing. But if the case "Indo Europeans may have received much or all of it from Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic Europeans or their close relatives in asia" happened, then it is descended form paleolithic/mesolithic Europeans or their relatives. It just didn't exist in Europe continually, thats what I meant. Anyway, if R or I is mainly descended form mesolithic/paleolithic humans, shouldn't the amount of U or V mtDNA be much higher in Europe? I think, that some of the modern R in Europe comes from paleolithic Europeans (brought by Indo-Europeans, which could have had paleolithic European admixture), but most of it is not this Cro-magnon branch.

[Fire Haired]

I think there is a good chance mtDNA V is middle eastern not European, and was brought to Europe in the Neolithic. Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic ancestry in Europe is very high, but there is no obvious connection with Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic descended Y DNA and mtDNA and overall Mesolithic/upper Palaeolithic ancestry.

Early Indo Europeans certainly had Mesolithic/Upper Palaeolithic European ancestry. A large amount had mtDNA U5, U4, and U2e(click here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118795-List-of-65-ancient-Pontaic-steppe-individuals-and-DNA-results) and here (http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/haplogroups_of_bronze_age_proto-indo-europeans.shtml)).

[Black Wolf]

My mtDNA line comes from Ireland and is U5b2c2.