Couple Arrested for Homeschooling in New York

[Sol Invictus]

December 5, 2010

Editor’s note: It is illegal to home school without the permission of the state in New York. The government has to sign-off on what you teach your children or you will be arrested and charged with endangering them. It was about the same in Soviet Union. The state owns your kids. They are wards of the state.

Two parents in Montgomery County are accused of improperly home schooling their children.

Forty-seven-year-old Richard Cressy and his wife, 41-year-old Margie Cressy, are charged with endangering the welfare of a child.

The sheriff’s department says the two were home schooling their four children, ages 8 to 14 years old, without the required approval from the school district.

The Cressys were issued appearance tickets to appear in Glen Town Court at a later date.

This article states (http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/district-1269895-school-county.html) that the couple were arrested for the crime of not allowing the state to brainwash their children.

[Lady L]

I don't see the big deal. I don't think parents should be able to home school without following some kind of regulations. I've seen parents who claimed to home school that didn't do shit. Very sad.

[Cato]

As a resident of said state, I can tell you that actual teachers, as compared to parents who think that they're teachers, need the proper education, credentials and certification to be teachers. Otherwise, what's to prevent anyone from setting himself up as a "teacher?"

Did the parents have any proper, legal qualifications to home school? The article doesn't say, only that the parents failed to register themselves with the local school board.

[Tony]

In my view homeschooling , like the 1st Amendment and the right to bear arms , is one of the major pillars of American traditional freedoms.
For me it should work the other way around , parents who do that shouldn't be required any official permission unless it's been proven that they're not good at teaching.
How?for example with annual examinations of their children in a public school or even an examination aimed to check the parents' skills , or the 2 things together.
If they fail and score say E or F then they would loose the permission to hoomeschool , plain and simple.

[Cail]

Parents should be allowed to home-school their children, as long as the children take quarterly (4 times a year) exams on standard school curriculum. If the children pass such exams successfully, it indicates that their parent home-school them at least not worse, than the official education. In case they fail these tests, they should be forced to attend a formal school instead.

[Lahtari]

The problem with taking exams in state schools is that some faceless bureaucrate can just one-sidedly decide that "tolerance education", "black history" or any kind of mumbo-jumbo is just as important subject as math and reading..

[Lady L]

In my view homeschooling , like the 1st Amendment and the right to bear arms , is one of the major pillars of American traditional freedoms.
For me it should work the other way around , parents who do that shouldn't be required any official permission unless it's been proven that they're not good at teaching.
How?for example with annual examinations of their children in a public school or even an examination aimed to check the parents' skills , or the 2 things together.
If they fail and score say E or F then they would loose the permission to hoomeschool , plain and simple.

Problem with that however is so many parents don't give a rat's ass about their child's education. So say the child is a brat and throws tantrums every time it's time to go to school, the lazy parent could give in and 'claim' to home school the child.

Another scenario would be the child actually does care about schooling and the parent has a big idea to home school and the parent is not fit to do so.

In both scenarios the outcome will be the child failing the examinations, which yes will prove the unfit parent but it is still so much education time wasted for the child.

Where as if the regulations were in place there wouldn't be all this time wasted.

It would be like handing out driving license before passing the test.

[nisse]

This is all just an attempt to "standardize" everyone and is fundamentally unfair :mad:

IMO parents should be able to teach their children as they like...even if they don't believe in numbers, or evolution, or whatever - they should be the ones that decide the child's belief system, otherwise the whole idea of a family falls apart. If parents have to be certified to teach their own children then the family becomes just a convenience for the state, only there to produce some "worker" fitting the state's specifications.

If the parents refuse to teach the children, and won't let them go to school, there will likely be other issues - like actual child abuse, and they can be charged on that. Newsflash - those born on their soil are not their property - in all cases where there is no actual abuse - the government better keep its hands off other people's kids.

[Cato]

Teach a child informally.
Teach a child formally.

There's a difference, friends. :)

[SwordoftheVistula]

Problem with that however is so many parents don't give a rat's ass about their child's education. So say the child is a brat and throws tantrums every time it's time to go to school, the lazy parent could give in and 'claim' to home school the child.

Another scenario would be the child actually does care about schooling and the parent has a big idea to home school and the parent is not fit to do so.

From what I've seen, those cases are few & far between, since the lazy parents just send their kids to public school.

NY has a standardized test called The Regents, I don't see any problem with making homeschool kids take that, and as long as they pass it's all good.

[Freomæg]

I don't see the big deal. I don't think parents should be able to home school without following some kind of regulations. I've seen parents who claimed to home school that didn't do shit. Very sad.
I disagree. Imposed regulations, in theory, would be preferable. But the whole battle over home-schooling is that the state wants control over our childrens' minds and we want to protect them from brainwashing, so those 'regulations' will inevitably be abused to ensure that the state gains control over those childrens' minds.

Furthermore, whether children are given sufficient education via or home-schooling or not should be secondary to the wishes of the parents. If some children grow up dumb because of home-schooling, that's just the price we have to pay for freedom. To preserve freedom we're going to have to expect a few 'casualities' along the way. Surely it's worth it to prevent full totalitarianism.

[Kadu]

I pretty much agree with Cail and SwordoftheVistula but it is also importance for children to interact and behave in society and without other complementary activities involving social interaction i'm afraid that home-schooling isn't enough alone.

[Aemma]

Actually in the province of Ontario it IS quite legal to homeschool one's children. There are minimal standards of course that the child should reach and there is a core curriculum set out by the province that the parent has to follow. I know a couple of families that have opted for homeschooling and I've heard nothing but very good things. Often the argument is made that a downfall to homeschooling is the lack of socialization of the child(ren). However in my experience, these families make concerted efforts to join the local homeschooling association. Through this kind of membership, these families enjoy group rates at different clubs, museums, etc and get to enjoy solid socialization time with other families not just individual kids. It's pretty much win-win all around. Such kids get to learn different things in a different milieu (for instance I have a friend who has been homeschooling her 2 boys and whose boys were involved in fencing as a group learning activity--fencing, an activity NOT found in our regular elementary school curriculum here!)

In a way, homeschooling doesn't much differ in general philosophy from programs such as Montessori Schools or Waldorf Schools whereby all of these approaches are very much geared towards the needs and learning styles of each individual child. Granted a homeschooling situation is not for everyone but in my experience, those parents that do opt for this additional time and influence in their children's lives find it a very positive experience for all family members.

[Lady L]

I disagree. Imposed regulations, in theory, would be preferable. But the whole battle over home-schooling is that the state wants control over our childrens' minds and we want to protect them from brainwashing, so those 'regulations' will inevitably be abused to ensure that the state gains control over those childrens' minds.

True to an extent but a little extreme for me. I don't really think that they sit at their round table and discuss how they want to gain control over our children. I do however, know what you mean by that in that what is taught and what is not in public school.

My children have been attending public school for a while now and I have yet to see anybody trying to 'brainwash' them. All I have seen is caring teachers and staff who put the importance of their learning first, above all.


Furthermore, whether children are given sufficient education via or home-schooling or not should be secondary to the wishes of the parents. If some children grow up dumb because of home-schooling, that's just the price we have to pay for freedom. To preserve freedom we're going to have to expect a few 'casualities' along the way. Surely it's worth it to prevent full totalitarianism.

I'm all for freedom too but, some people are not equipped to be given such freedoms, they will fail, and more importantly, they will fail their children.

Sure, we can just dust it off if we want as ' a price to pay ' but that doesn't work for me. The children pay the price if they are uneducated, not the parents who are in control of their education. ( and should be the ones to pay ) Keeping a child from education because there are no regulations set in is not freedom at all in my eyes. It ties the child down and they are anything but free.

Also, if the parents want to home school, and at the same time they don't want their children to only learn the 'brainwashing' material, the parents have the choice to teach the kids by the criteria and then adding whatever they like. :) Sounds like a winner to me..!!

@ SOV, it unfortunately happens more than you just hear about. And, I wouldn't say lazy parents send their children to public school when they are out working to provide for their children..!!

[Freomæg]

My children have been attending public school for a while now and I have yet to see anybody trying to 'brainwash' them. All I have seen is caring teachers and staff who put the importance of their learning first, above all.
Then you're very lucky :). It is not uncommon here for children to spend a disproportionate amount of religious education on Islam, in some cases even visiting Mosques and praying as though Muslim. That's the tip of the iceberg.

[Majar]

Homeschooled students rank near or above (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57055) public school students in national standardized tests. The fear of homeschooling leaving children "stupid" or unprepared for life doesn't have any foundation in reality. Are lousy, stupid, uninvolved, irresponsible parents going to opt to homeschool their children? Of course not, that makes no sense. Public schools always say that smaller class sizes are better, and that they want parents to become more involved in their child's education. Homeschooling accomplishes both of those things.

[Klärchen]

Then you're very lucky :). It is not uncommon here for children to spend a disproportionate amount of religious education on Islam, in some cases even visiting Mosques and praying as though Muslim. That's the tip of the iceberg.

Does that happen in public schools? :confused:

I guess that's the reason for not allowing home-schooling in Germany. They are afraid that the children might either not get any education at all, or that they might attend Koran schools and all become terrorists. At least this might make it even more difficult to integrate Muslims into our society.

Nevertheless, home-schooling can also have a lot of advantages, I myself would prefer it to the public schools.

[Klärchen]

Homeschooling has been illegal in Germany for most of the 20th century. But a decision in the United States granting asylum to a German homeschooling couple has revived an ongoing debate on the freedom of education.

US judge grants German homeschooling family asylum (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5174919,00.html)

[Moustache]

From the article Klärchen linked to:


The parents identify themselves as evangelical Christians and say religion was the primary reason why they chose to homeschool their children. Hannelore Romeike said public education can never be neutral.

Just how rooted is US-style Christian fundamentalism in German society? Because I'm not surprised the family turned out to be a marginal group instead of Lutheran, Catholic, atheist or agnostic.

A child needs outside impulses to grow, and conflict strengthens people, shaping not only their view of the world, but their self-image. It is the availability of information, the increasing pace of inter-cultural communication that has brought forth turning to local identities as a response, with religion often serving as a marker. I have no doubt discussions about multiculturalism on these fora would have involved a much smaller audience 15 years ago than they do today.

Now, Evangelicals react to modernity with backward prescriptions on the punishment of deviance, the role of women, etc. which is what happens when religious doctrines are taken on wholesale. A view sheltering children from realities it considers corrupt and evil will lead to a self-affirming cycle of conflict, withdrawal, fixation on views and an ever-lowered level of irritation towards a world steadily drifting apart from their own. The insensitivity of the state can be a legitimate grievance, although I do not think the German government needs to go out of its way to accomodate the Romeikes' stance towards education. If going to public school is good enough for Lutherans, Catholics, Muslims, atheists and the rest, it's good for "Bible Christians". Is having a rigid, closed-doors policy to the outside world to be equated with strength of identity anyway? Not as I see it.

Strength of culture is manifested in conscious selection of what influences to keep and discard. I do not mind exposing my children to and help them appreciate that which is noble in other cultures, exactly because I expect them to be secure in their own identity to start off with. In fact, if my kids end up having different views than me - not for shallow reasons such as simply making a point, mind you - and it aids them in their development, I will actually pleased with their individuality, although I may not show it. ;)