Gay marriage approved in Portugal [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

December

01-08-2010, 04:58 PM

Same-sex marriage law backed in Portugal's parliament

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47066000/jpg/_47066551_008506157-1.jpg
PM Jose Socrates had appealed to MPs to back the same-sex marriage law

Portugal's parliament has passed a law to legalise same-sex marriage, but rejected proposals to allow homosexual couples to adopt.

The bill was approved with the support of the governing Socialist Party and other parties further to the left.

Prime Minister Jose Socrates opened the debate with an appeal to back the law, saying it would put right an injustice that had caused unnecessary pain.

The law has been fiercely opposed by conservatives in the Catholic country.

Rightist parties had sought a national referendum on the issue following a petition that collected more than 90,000 signatures, but their proposal was rejected.

Friday's debate was at times heated, says the BBC's Alison Roberts in Lisbon, with Socialists attacking as discriminatory a counter-proposal from the centre-right Social Democrats for a new so-called civil union for same-sex couples.

The bill will now be reviewed in committee before coming back for a final vote in parliament.

If the law is ratified by President Anibal Cavaco Silva, it could come into effect in April - just a month before a visit to Portugal by Pope Benedict XVI, a staunch opponent of gay marriage.

The ratification would make Portugal the sixth country in Europe to allow same-sex marriages after Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and Norway.

Many other countries have introduced civil partnerships, which give lesbian and gay couples some of the rights of married heterosexuals.(source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8448640.stm))

I propose a Social Tragedy section.

The Lawspeaker

01-08-2010, 05:06 PM

What else can you expect from a socialist government ? What a fuck-up...

(And I too think that the creation of a "Social Tragedy"- section would be a good idea)

anonymaus

01-08-2010, 05:21 PM

What else can you expect from a socialist government ? What a fuck-up...

(And I too think that the creation of a "Social Tragedy"- section would be a good idea)

In what way is equality under the law related to socialism?

Loki

01-08-2010, 05:32 PM

The Lawspeaker

01-08-2010, 05:32 PM

In what way is equality under the law related to socialism?
You do know that socialist governmenst usually cater to the demands of such "minorities" ?

At this moment the biggest party is the Partido Socialista. The Prime Minister is José Sócrates (PS)

Coincedence ?

anonymaus

01-08-2010, 05:47 PM

You do know that socialist governmenst usually cater to the demands of such "minorities" ?

At this moment the biggest party is the Partido Socialista. The Prime Minister is José Sócrates (PS)

Coincedence ?

I don't understand how according peaceful law abiding citizens the same rights as those with more productive predilections is in any way catering to a minority. It is true, however, that much of the social emancipation of the last 60 or so years has been engineered and supported by leftists; an embarrassing fact for someone like me.

Loddfafner

01-08-2010, 06:07 PM

I hope this legalization of gay marriage will help ward off Islamists.

Amapola

01-08-2010, 06:36 PM

:sick2: social tragedy section now!!!

Loddfafner

01-08-2010, 07:02 PM

:sick2: social tragedy section now!!!

No, unless that would be the subforum for posts about Abrahamic religion. I think "social comedy" is more appropriate for this thread, especially as lovers entangle their relationships in bureaucracy. If they break up, they will have to hire lawyers for their divorce.

Lars

01-08-2010, 07:17 PM

December

01-08-2010, 07:20 PM

You do know that socialist governmenst usually cater to the demands of such "minorities" ?

At this moment the biggest party is the Partido Socialista. The Prime Minister is José Sócrates (PS)

Coincedence ?
Nope. You are right. And the next step will be adoption. Sócrates already assumed that it could not be passed only because it was not in the electoral manifest.

Eventhough this was a fraud. The proposal was written in small letters on the manifest. People were much more worried with the financial crisis. Nevertheless he lost half-million votes.

And you know why gay adoption was not in the manifest? In one thing the far-left was right: he didn't have the guts because he knew all too well he would lose elections.

December

01-08-2010, 07:41 PM

How is this a tragedy? If two gay people decide to marry, I don't see how it will impact me personally, or any other person who is not involved. If marriage is not allowed, the couple will probably just live together anyway. Sealing their relationship in marriage is a formality that has meaning for them only. It is personal.
The motto of this site ("Cultural & Ethnic European Preservation") is marred if we shrug our shoulders at perversion of basic laws of nature and society that our forefathers have built and preserved both through our genes and culture.

Cato

01-08-2010, 07:44 PM

LMAO @ Jose Socrates.

With a name like that is it any wonder why he supports Greek love?

December

01-08-2010, 07:51 PM

Related: A gay working man is worth more than a praying man.
Unrelated: Do you guys think priests are trying to pray the gay away?
Related: I agree with Loki and anonymaus on this one.
Unrelated: Have any of you worked on the sabbath? Have you touched or eaten a pig?
Related: Gay marriage should of course not be performed in a church but in the town hall.
Homosexuality isn't about perverted sex but to find a partner for life like anybody else. If you pick and choose in the bible from what to follow and not, then even a 6-year-old wouldn't pay any attention to you.
Garbage thoughts like that is obsolete...it's time to move on and better ourselves.

Here, two respectable working men:

http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/dan_de_vero_og_gaah_617588b.jpg

If this is what the genes of Europeans serve for, I'd rather prefer the extinction of humanity.

And this is why the muslims will win this war. They laugh at our decadence.

Loki

01-08-2010, 07:51 PM

The motto of this site ("Cultural & Ethnic European Preservation") is marred if we shrug our shoulders at perversion of basic laws of nature and society that our forefathers have built and preserved both through our genes and culture.

In your mind only. What people do in their private lives we cannot change. It is not unlawful have a same-sex partner. And, marriage does not add much to that, it is merely a formality. This new allowance will not all of a sudden persuade heterosexual men to become gays. But gays have always been a minority in society, and that they will remain. Regardless of the strictness of government. In my mind it is better to be open about some things, than doing it in secret.

Cato

01-08-2010, 07:52 PM

The fudgepackers need a date with the nidstang, but their desire to force their deviant behavior on society would see the niding pole decorated with rainbow ribbons.

I don't support this sort of abberant lifestyle; it's simply not a part of what I consider to be traditional behavior for a man of any sort, especially the heroic-minded man.

Tony

01-08-2010, 07:55 PM

Nope. You are right. And the next step will be adoption.
Indeed , it first starts with the "civil union" , then as a regular marriage and at last with the adoption.
I don't care what 2 gays do in their private and think the whole issue is way overestimated by the politicians and the media to obscure way more serious problems like immigration , poverty and unemployment but I would never force a gay to pretend to be a hetero and play the day the role of the perfect hubby with a fake wive plus sons/daughters and in the night going in search of males , as in once was.
But at the same time I'd NEVER equate a gay couple with a hetero one , the hetero is much more important for the survival of a society , to start with the offspring issue.

poiuytrewq0987

01-08-2010, 07:57 PM

Indeed , it first starts with the "civil union" , then as a regular marriage and at last with the adoption.
I don't care what 2 gays do in their private and think the whole issue is way overestimated by the politicians and the media to obscure way more serious problems like immigration , poverty and unemployment but I would never force a gay to pretend to be a hetero and take a fake wives plus sons/daughters , as in once was.
But at the same time I'd NEVER equate a gay couple with a hetero one , the hetero is much more important for the survival of a society , to start with the offspring issue.

I wouldn't want a gay man to be straight and have children because it's mostly likely he'll be a bad influence to the kid. And kids are what keeps us going as a race.

December

01-08-2010, 07:58 PM

In your mind only.Not sure.

LMAO @ Jose Socrates.

With a name like that is it any wonder why he supports Greek love?LOL, I doubt Greeks will like the comparison... But yes, he had an affair with a known public male figure, which led to the end of his marriage. Of course that by mentioning this, I risk to be sued by defamation like many were.

Loddfafner

01-08-2010, 08:46 PM

I don't support this sort of abberant lifestyle; it's simply not a part of what I consider to be traditional behavior for a man of any sort, especially the heroic-minded man.

Falkata

01-08-2010, 09:38 PM

Married people pay less taxes than singles, so yes, gay marriage has effects in the whole country.
Anyway in Spain is legal since 2005 and most of the gays are still singles. In 3 years (from 2005 to 2008) just 5243 couple got married in Spain, a country with 45 millions habitants.

Cato

01-08-2010, 09:44 PM

http://livelyexchange.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/cincinnatus-statue-full.jpg

http://www.nndb.com/people/846/000101543/julian-the-apostate-1-sized.jpg

http://thewesterncanon.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/marcus_aurelius_03.jpeg

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Scipio_Africanus_the_Elder.png

http://www.radford.edu/wkovarik/class/images/Cato.gif

Artistic examples of Greek love do not destroy the fact that antiquity had high-minded and heroic men. Romans are better examples than decadent Hellenes anyways. :)

Cincinnatus.
Julius.
Marcus Aurelius.
Scipio.
Cato.

Fortis in Arduis

01-08-2010, 09:45 PM

It is a pity that the security and tax-breaks that these unions afford married couples cannot be extended to elderly siblings who live together, for example.

Heretik

01-09-2010, 01:24 AM

http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/dan_de_vero_og_gaah_617588b.jpg

ROFLCOPTER! I knew Gaahl was gay, but designing women's clothing with his boyfriend?!?! :D :D
World is coming to its end as we know it.

Svarog

01-09-2010, 07:11 AM

ROFLCOPTER! I knew Gaahl was gay, but designing women's clothing with his boyfriend?!?! :D :D
World is coming to its end as we know it.

http://www.fotorola.com/uploads/8ae8e5d5a0.jpg

Eldritch

01-09-2010, 03:09 PM

It always amazes me how whenever some country passes a law that allows a same-sex couple to formalise their relationship in a court of law (I assume in Portugal gays aren't allowed to marry in a Catholic church), some people wring their hands together as if yet another Horseman of the Apocalypse has just appeared, and it won't be long until brimstone rains down from the sky.

Let's imagine a situation where a person who has been in a relationship with another person of the same gender for 30 years suddenly dies. Do we want the partner to be left with nothing, while the deceased person's children and siblings (many of whom probably have refused to have any dealings with him/her because of their "deviant" lifestyle for years if not decades) gobble up their fortunes?

What about cases of illness, dementia, or cases where euthanasia becomes a possibility/necessity? Don't you think the person in question would want his/her partner to have a say in the matter?

And yes, I know I'll be covered up in shit for this, but I support internal adoption.

December

01-09-2010, 05:47 PM

I assume in Portugal gays aren't allowed to marry in a Catholic churchCatholic/Orthodox law was adapted to millenial European traditions. It was forbidden by our pagan ancestors long before Christ, thus (not the other way around) it is forbidden by any classical Christianity. Marriage is a sacred physical and spiritual union which elevates the union of two complementary people in a society. Male and Female.

Let's imagine a situation where a person who has been in a relationship with another person of the same gender for 30 years suddenly dies. Do we want the partner to be left with nothing, while the deceased person's children and siblings (many of whom probably have refused to have any dealings with him/her because of their "deviant" lifestyle for years if not decades) gobble up their fortunes? Simple, law could predict such cases. If they are a gay couple and one dies, surely their lineage ends there, unless they can adopt children. Personally I would be tormented by the thought that society had not only left me without a father and a mother but also given me a couple of sodomite fathers as replacement.

What about cases of illness, dementia, or cases where euthanasia becomes a possibility/necessity? Don't you think the person in question would want his/her partner to have a say in the matter?Laws predicting such cases were proposed by the conservatives. "Humanists" want something more than defending the rights of gays. (BTW, some socialists refused vote cohercion and stood against in the assembly, they'll probably be subject to internal procedures).

And yes, I know I'll be covered up in shit for this, but I support internal adoption.No, I'll not insult you like a couple of garbage worms do here at first sight. You have the right to have your opinion and I respect such, no matter as abhorrent it may seem. It's just an opinion.

One of the rightwing parties (whatever "right" is in politics) has a gay for leader. He keeps his private life out of public eyes and is judicious enough to understand that his sexuality is not to be followed as an example of what should be the pillars of society. Institutionalizing same sex marriage is as much destructive to society (if not more) than it is promoting this racial international orgy we live in.

Race without order and tradition is useless and pointless (in my opinion).

Eldritch

01-09-2010, 06:05 PM

Catholic/Orthodox law was adapted to millenial European traditions. It was forbidden by our pagan ancestors long before Christ, thus (not the other way around) it is forbidden by any classical Christianity. Marriage is a sacred physical and spiritual union which elevates the union of two complementary people in a society. Male and Female.

That's exactly what I mean. Since I'm not a Catholic or a Christian of any other denomination, I'll leave the possibility of gay marriage in a church between gays and the church. It doesn't concern me personally one way or the other.

Simple, law could predict such cases. If they are a gay couple and one dies, surely their lineage ends there, unless they can adopt children. Personally I would be tormented by the thought that society had not only left me without a father and a mother but also given me a couple of sodomite fathers as replacement.

In most countries, afaIk 50% of the person's property goes automatically to his/her heirs after, while the testor/testatrix can dispose of the other 50% as they see fit. Pretty fair if you ask me.

No, I'll not insult you like a couple of garbage worms do here at first sight. You have the right to have your opinion and I respect such, no matter as abhorrent it may seem. It's just an opinion.

Being capable of respectful disagreement is a sign of intellectual maturity.

One of the rightwing parties (whatever "right" is in politics) has a gay for leader.

Fairly common across Europe. Gays have much more to lose from the Negrification of Europe than "regular" Europeans.

Loddfafner

01-09-2010, 06:11 PM

Fairly common across Europe. Gays have much more to lose from the Negrification of Europe than "regular" Europeans.

I had hoped that European nationalists would respect the example of Pim Fortuyn as a far more promising model than any of the figures of 1930s nostalgia.

The Lawspeaker

01-09-2010, 06:14 PM

There you have a good point. That's one of the few homosexuals that I respect.
A national hero.

Fortis in Arduis

01-09-2010, 06:30 PM

<--- 'Yes' to same-sex civil partnerships, 'not sure' about adoption rights being extended to people with those partnerships.

<--- 'Yes' to same-sex marriage and 'yes' to the freedom of religious of religious institutions to marry (or not marry) same-sex partners.

<--- 'Yes' to freedom of religion.

Singles and 'gay' people are the people who have the most disposable income in any society, perhaps then, the tax breaks should be reserved for those who want to marry and potentially have children.

Personally I think that I prefer the libertarian approach, rather than applying some sort of reproductive ethos.

People should be able to live by the fruits of their labour anyway, so the question is academic, if we construct such a society.

The reproductive ethos undermines the position of people who choose not to, or are unable to have children. These people also contribute to society.

Dispossession is the main negative trend in society from which all others arise.

Blaming sexual or other minorities, who make life and society a little more complicated for Mr and Mrs Average, is a fun game for retards, but if we do not own our own homes and land and the businesses we work for, nothing will change for the better.

The nuclear family is the most important unit of society, just because it is.

There is no need to promote alternatives to that.

However, where those alternatives exist it seems fair enough to provide equality before the law.

The Lawspeaker

01-09-2010, 06:32 PM

<--------- Yes to same-sex civil partnerships, No to same-sex adoptions, No to same-sex marriages.

Fortis in Arduis

01-09-2010, 06:49 PM

<--------- Yes to same-sex civil partnerships, No to same-sex adoptions, No to same-sex marriages.

That is my personal opinion, but it conflicts with freedom of religion.

Treffie

01-11-2010, 11:04 AM

Nope. You are right. And the next step will be adoption. Sócrates already assumed that it could not be passed only because it was not in the electoral manifest.

Eventhough this was a fraud. The proposal was written in small letters on the manifest. People were much more worried with the financial crisis. Nevertheless he lost half-million votes.

And you know why gay adoption was not in the manifest? In one thing the far-left was right: he didn't have the guts because he knew all too well he would lose elections.

Isn't adoption by a single gay individual already legal in Portugal? Now that gay marriages are approved, the next step is adoption by gay couples.

Tabiti

01-11-2010, 02:02 PM

Quite weird. Never expected such thing to happen in a Catholic country, especially so devoted one. Or Portugal isn't so religious as Spain? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Falkata

01-11-2010, 02:16 PM

Spain is not a very religious country anymore. Specially between young people. Just the 10,4% of the people between 18 and 29 years old are practising catholics according with a survey made the last month. The numbers in USA or Italy for example are way higher

Tabiti

01-11-2010, 02:20 PM

Yes, but one thing is young people's attitude, other the law, the tradition, the institutions.

Loddfafner

01-11-2010, 02:25 PM

Quite weird. Never expected such thing to happen in a Catholic country, especially so devoted one. Or Portugal isn't so religious as Spain? Correct me if I'm wrong.

When Portugal tried to be a perfectly Catholic country, they were rewarded by the most destructive earthquake in history. When they tried again in the twentieth century, they were held back as a third world country while the rest of Europe advanced. I imagine Portugal is following the examples of Quebec and Ireland in shaking off clerical dictatorship.

December

01-11-2010, 02:57 PM

When Portugal tried to be a perfectly Catholic country, they were rewarded by the most destructive earthquake in history. When they tried again in the twentieth century, they were held back as a third world country while the rest of Europe advanced.Nm nm.

The period between 1910 and 1926 (First Republic, Laicism, Liberalism) threw us back to a calculated 200 years of economical disaster.

Estado Novo (rightwing conservative pro-clerical dictatorship) fell because of its wrongest option ever: The Colonial War.

Nevertheles, in 25 April 1974, we had the 3rd largest gold reserve of western Europe, and a 5% of GDP foreign debt. I'll give you more figures later.

Treffie

01-11-2010, 03:02 PM

Quite weird. Never expected such thing to happen in a Catholic country, especially so devoted one. Or Portugal isn't so religious as Spain? Correct me if I'm wrong.

It may be surprising to many but gay marriage and adoption is legal in Spain.

December

01-11-2010, 03:24 PM

Quite weird. Never expected such thing to happen in a Catholic country, especially so devoted one. Or Portugal isn't so religious as Spain? Correct me if I'm wrong.
The "rightwing" has fractured in 3 factions:
Christian-Democrats/Neo-Cons
Neo-Liberals/Ultra-Neo-Cons
Traditionalists/Nationalists

As they can't understand eachothers and divide into 2 parties and a severe abstention, the Socialists have succeed in gather support from the mild Marxists, Libertarians, Liberalists, Capitalists, Populists, We-Are-Left-And-We-Defend-Workerists, and also strange lobbies usually defended by the Greens/Anarchists.

José Sócrates Carvalho Pinto de Sousa is a known closet bisexual, staunch supporter of the gay lobby. His modern technocrat character attracted many hollow-empty heads who enjoy this modern world. He offered us lots of propaganda, an image of a modern man and convinced an important part of the electorate with his cool speech, full of fancy tics.

He spent millions in super-propaganda campaigns full of fancy things, carefully elaborated, offering hundreds of thousands of laptops to children. I've never seen such a populist since I remember myself. Oh... and he is a very close friend of kinky Zapatero. They have even made partnership rallies (in Spain), something never seen. Zapatero (Spanish PM), also a lousy example of a man.

Amapola

01-11-2010, 05:39 PM

Quite weird. Never expected such thing to happen in a Catholic country, especially so devoted one. Or Portugal isn't so religious as Spain? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Spain religious? :confused: it used to be but now I think it's rather the opposite... and even gradually moving away from Church o anything "religious" ...

Amapola

01-11-2010, 05:43 PM

When Portugal tried to be a perfectly Catholic country, they were rewarded by the most destructive earthquake in history. When they tried again in the twentieth century, they were held back as a third world country while the rest of Europe advanced. I imagine Portugal is following the examples of Quebec and Ireland in shaking off clerical dictatorship.

The most Catholic period of Portugal or Spain also equated with their biggest success ever as maritime or hegemony superpowers :wink

Tabiti

01-11-2010, 05:46 PM

Spain religious? :confused: it used to be but now I think it's rather the opposite... and even gradually moving away from Church o anything "religious" ...
Usually that's the impression we have for the Catholic world. Of course, not speaking about ordinary people and youth, but the power of religious institutions. Because our church is always complaining of it's weakness and insignificant role in state's rule. That's why I'm quite surprised to hear gay marriages are approved in Catholic Southern European countries. I doubt this will happen here in the next years, for example, despite the fact we are quite atheist society.