Donetsk People’s Council Set to Hold Referendum to Join Russia May 11

[Loki]

Donetsk People’s Council Set to Hold Referendum to Join Russia May 11 (http://en.ria.ru/world/20140407/189086720/Donetsk-Peoples-Council-Set-to-Hold-Referendum-to-Join-Russia.html)

http://en.ria.ru/images/18908/66/189086693.jpg

DONETSK, 7 April (RIA Novosti) - Donetsk region People’s Council established by local pro-federalization demonstrators on Monday declared its plans to create the republic of Donetsk and join Russia if people so vote during the referendum which is due to take place no later than May 11, RIA Novosti correspondent reported Monday.

"People's Republic of Donetsk is to be created within the administrative borders of Donetsk region. This decision shall enter into force immediately after the referendum," one of the leaders of Donetsk People's council said at a meeting in the building of regional administration Monday.

A group of protesters pushing for broader regional autonomy stormed government buildings in Donetsk, Lugansk and Kharkov in eastern Ukraine on Sunday, according to local media reports.

Nearly 3,000 people reportedly took control of the national bank’s building in Lugansk. Demonstrators flooded the streets in the city, waving Russian flags and chanting “Russia! Russia!”

Calls for secession and federalization have been spreading across Ukraine’s mainly Russian-speaking eastern regions after Ukrainian ultranationalists, who make up the bulk of the erstwhile opposition, rose to political prominence following a change of the country’s leadership that resembled a coup in February.

Protesters in eastern Ukraine, who have refused to recognize the legitimacy of the new authorities, have been gathering since March, demanding referendums on the status of their regions.

[Loki]

Donetsk activists proclaim region's independence from Ukraine (http://rt.com/news/donetsk-republic-protestukraine-841/)

n the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, a group of activists have declared their region independent from Kiev. This comes after protesters stormed a local government building last night.

Mass demonstrations against the country's new leadership started peacefully on Sunday, but the situation quickly escalated.

Pro-Russian protesters in Donetsk have seized the local power building, including the headquarters of the Security Service of Ukraine and proclaimed the creation of a People’s Republic of Donetsk.

Ukraine’s police and security services have not interfered, although officials in Kiev are threatening punishment for the rioters.

Protesters have erected barricades around the Council building.

http://rt.com/files/news/24/d3/90/00/27.jpg

Today at 12:20 local time, a session of the people's Council of Donbass (Donetsk region) took place in the main hall of the Regional Council and unanimously voted on a declaration to form a new independent state: the People’s Republic of Donetsk.

The Council proclaimed itself the only legitimate body in the region until the regions in southeast Ukraine conduct a general referendum, set to take place no later than May 11.

“The Donetsk Republic is to be created within the administrative borders of the Donetsk region. This decision will come into effect after the referendum,” the statement said.

The Council in Donetsk issued an address to Russian President Vladimir Putin, asking for deployment of a temporary peacekeeping force to the region.

“Without support it will be hard for us to stand against the junta in Kiev,” said the address.

“We are addressing Russian President Putin because we can only entrust our security to Russia,” the statement said.

http://rt.com/files/news/24/d3/90/00/19.jpg

Rallies in support of the federalization of Ukraine continue in a number of cities in southeast Ukraine. Thousands of citizens have joined the protests, demanding the earliest possible federalization of the country.

Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior said that last night unknown persons stormed the Security Service of Ukraine building in the city of Lugansk and seized a weapons warehouse there. During the night’s clashes, nine people were reportedly injured.

http://rt.com/files/news/24/d3/90/00/25.jpg

In the city of Kharkov protesters erected barricades around the buildings of the city and the regional administrations and the regional headquarters of Security Service of Ukraine.

There were brief clashes between supporters of the federalization of Ukraine and pro-EU demonstrators in downtown Kharkov. Protesters on both sides used fire crackers and stun grenades.

A demonstration against political repression in Ukraine has also being held in the southern regional center of Odessa.

http://rt.com/files/news/24/d3/90/00/24.jpg

The chiefs of security agencies of Ukraine are reportedly heading to the cities engulfed in protests.

The interim secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, Andrey Parubiy, together with acting head of the Security Service of Ukraine, Valentin Nalivaichenko, are set to visit Lugansk. Interim Deputy Prime Minister Vitaly Yarema will visit Donetsk and acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov has reportedly already arrived in Kharkov.

The coup-appointed acting president, Aleksandr Turchinov, has threatened that counter-terrorist measures could be taken against those who take up arms against the Kiev authorities, RIA news agency reported. On Thursday, the Ukrainian parliament will tighten laws regarding separatism and could possibly ban certain parties and organizations , Turchinov warned.

“What happened yesterday is the second stage of the special operation of the Russian Federation against Ukraine,” announced Turchinov in an address televised on Monday, sharing that an “anti-crisis command was set up last night” to deal with the crisis, Interfax-Ukraine reported.

Ukraine’s interim Foreign Minister Andrey Deschitsa announced on Monday that if the situation in the eastern regions escalates, the coup-appointed government in Kiev will take “much harsher” measures than those on the reunion of the Crimea with Russia. Deschitsa gave an assurance that members of the government are already working with local authorities.

[Hweinlant]

Ukraine must crush this 5th column

[Loki]

Ukraine must crush this 5th column

Ukraine can't do anything, it's already crushed by its own actions.

[Cail]

Ukraine must crush this 5th column

How can it be a 5th column if it is supported by the entire people, not just a small minority (like a 5th column would)? Government has no authority other that the one vested in it by the people. Kiev's government does not have support in Eastern Ukraine. The only logical conclusion is that it should not be governing those regions.

[Hweinlant]

Ukraine can't do anything, it's already crushed by its own actions.

They can send in the same snipers Yanukovych used against Maidaners. It's ok to snipe those guys as this is Russian black operation anyway. It's not like they would be shooting Ukrainians.

[Hweinlant]

How can it be a 5th column if it is supported by the entire people, not just a small minority (like a 5th column would)? Government has no authority other that the one vested in it by the people. Kiev's government does not have support in Eastern Ukraine. The only logical conclusion is that it should not be governing those regions.

Nonsense. There is plenty of support for Kyiv's government at east.

[Loki]

They can send in the same snipers Yanukovych used against Maidaners. It's ok to snipe those guys as this is Russian black operation anyway. It's not like they would be shooting Ukrainians.

If they do, then for sure the Russian army will move in and finish the job.

[Cail]

They can send in the same snipers Yanukovych used against Maidaners. It's ok to snipe those guys as this is Russian black operation anyway. It's not like they would be shooting Ukrainians.

Yes, tens of thousands of Russian black ops troops. Especially the grandfathers and women - they must be the leaders (KGB colonels), should be snipers' first priority targets.

[Hweinlant]

If they do, then for sure the Russian army will move in and finish the job.

It would be understandable, those are paid Russian agitators after all.

[Hweinlant]

Yes, tens of thousands of Russian black ops troops. Especially the grandfathers and women - they must be the leaders (KGB colonels), should be snipers' first priority targets.

Right
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5325e1d96da811dd49fde320/pro-russian-demonstrators-burn-books-storm-buildings-in-eastern-ukraine.jpg

Like the gold teeth tho'.

[Loki]

Hweinlant, it's clear you literally have no clue about Ukraine.

[Hweinlant]

Hweinlant, it's clear you literally have no clue about Ukraine.

Maybe , but I have a clue about Russia.

[Loki]

It would be understandable, those are paid Russian agitators after all.

No - the paid agitators were the 'peaceful' demonstrators in Maidan square who were fed by the US. Rent-a-mob.

This, by contrast, is a real people's revolution.

[Cail]

Nonsense. There is plenty of support for Kyiv's government at east.

Source? Kiev junta is composed entirely of Western-Ukrainian politicians and parties that were supported only by the western regions during the last election. They are actively opposing everything the eastern Ukraine wants (federalization, Russian language, taxes going to federal budgets et cetera). There is a reason why there were no maidans in Eastern Ukraine this winter, unlike all of the Western Ukrainian cities. There is a reason there is a pro-independence maidan now.

Take a look at what is happening in Kiev. The Right Sector (nazis) had just yesterday stormed the Constitutional Court in Kiev, forcing the judges out. Police did nothing to stop them. Is that a government? Lol. Ukraine is a failed state, fully dependent on foreign money and with no ability to keep order in its own capital. Eastern Ukraine gains nothing from being a part of this failed state. They don't want to fund it with their tax money and industry (of which the western Ukraine has almost none), and they don't want to be ruled by people that have nothing to do with them.

Do you know who the junta appointed as governors of the Eastern Ukrainian regions? Oligarchs that funded the Kiev's maidan (literally, the oligarchs themselves, not even their minions). And one of the first things they do when they come to power? They remove the official status of the Russian language (native language to the vast majority of people who leaves there). The new "governor" of Donetsk, appointed by the Kiev junta, has proposed to use international mercenaries (Blackwater, if you know what it is) to pacify the eastern regions. It's almost like they intentionally want to slap the Eastern Ukraine in the face.

If you try to think outside of your anti-Russian box just for a moment, what would YOU yourself do? A political power hostile to you and your people organizes a revolution to seize control of the country, proclaims your language illegal, appoints it's oligarch sponsors as your governors, refuses to give your people any regional power, arrests your leaders and takes them away to Kiev, wants to hire US mercenaries to pacify you? Would YOU like it?

[Hweinlant]

No - the paid agitators were the 'peaceful' demonstrators in Maidan square who were fed by the US. Rent-a-mob.


There was hundreds of thousands at Maidan square. A true popular uprising. Right sector and others who safe guarded the main protest from the dictator's troops were only a small minority.

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/3400-8/photos/3452038.jpg



This, by contrast, is a real people's revolution.

Sponsored by KGB.

This is for 100% sure because Moscow's stock exchange is in free fall and ruble is loosing against euro and dollar. Markets are never wrong.
http://moex.com/en/

[Kiyant]

I hope Turks in the border of Bulgaria/Iraq will also do it so we can take those regions back
(And if you disagree with me but agree with Russia you are hypocrits)

[Zmey Gorynych]

Hweinlant, it's clear you literally have no clue about Ukraine.
Yeah, as if you do :pound:


No - the paid agitators were the 'peaceful' demonstrators in Maidan square who were fed by the US. Rent-a-mob.
This, by contrast, is a real people's revolution.
Which is the more likely to be a rent-a-mob !? The nearly 1 million people (at its peak) euromaidan or the few thousands in Donetsk !?

[Loki]

There was hundreds of thousands at Maidan square. A true popular uprising. Right sector and others who safe guarded the main protest from the dictator's troops were only a small minority.


Who fed and accommodated them? They were (perhaps are?) still there. I guess they're all unemployed. Western Ukraine is very poor.

[Loki]

The nearly 1 million people (at its peak) euromaidan or the few thousands in Donetsk !?

Kiev is a much bigger city. And this is not only Donetsk city, but happens in Kharkiv, and several other places too. Respect the people's wishes. They don't have a government now, only a bunch of criminals who seized power via a coup with help from the US.

[Loki]

FACT: "Euro"Maidan backfired tremendously. Crimea is already part of the Russian Federation, and other areas will follow. Thank you, Maidan. :thumb001:

[LightHouse89]

How can it be a 5th column if it is supported by the entire people, not just a small minority (like a 5th column would)? Government has no authority other that the one vested in it by the people. Kiev's government does not have support in Eastern Ukraine. The only logical conclusion is that it should not be governing those regions.

Good confederates like me are taking notes on Ukraine and what Russia is doing. When the South Breaks away we will use these tactics :p We dont want anything to do with liberal-leftist washington dc and their pro open border government.

[Cail]

Right
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5325e1d96da811dd49fde320/pro-russian-demonstrators-burn-books-storm-buildings-in-eastern-ukraine.jpg


Those are most likely miners. Donetsk is a mining region, and a lot of the younger people there work in the mines. You wouldn't expect them to be intelligentsia, would you? They are not the only ones who protest.

[Hexachordia]

Sad development, at the time of communist revolution all look the same, majority poor people gathering against a few, but quickly some of them will regret. Joining a nation by voting is ridicluous, maybe independence.

[Cail]

Even local police is on the protesters' side:

http://politikus.ru/uploads/posts/2014-04/thumbs/1396829108_1.jpg

[LightHouse89]

FACT: "Euro"Maidan backfired tremendously. Crimea is already part of the Russian Federation, and other areas will follow. Thank you, Maidan. :thumb001:

Loki sometimes I think your a nut. But I do not hate Russia at all for what they are doing. I would think though areas of Ukraine that wish to be independent should be. But if Eastern Ukraine wishes to become part of Russia and the majority of people there want it then it should be.

[LightHouse89]

Sad development, at the time of communist revolution all look the same, majority poor people gathering against a few, but quickly some of them will regret. Joining a nation by voting is ridicluous, maybe independence.

Well its not that bad. But if they have not thought it through then they are stupid. I pray for the day America breaks apart to form its own republics. I hate the federal government, literally but I do not hate my country.

[Hweinlant]

Source? Kiev junta is composed entirely of Western-Ukrainian politicians and parties that were supported only by the western regions during the last election.
They are actively opposing everything the eastern Ukraine wants (federalization, Russian language, taxes going to federal budgets et cetera). There is a reason why there were no maidans in Eastern Ukraine this winter, unlike all of the Western Ukrainian cities. There is a reason there is a pro-independence maidan now.


Russian propaganda. There were maidans in pretty much all eastern cities. At Donetsk the Russian paid hooligans even attacked the maidan protest. Reason why Ukraine's government is heavily western is obviously because the Party-Of-Regions can not be part of it, due to their crimes against the people.




Ukraine is a failed state, fully dependent on foreign money and with no ability to keep order in its own capital. Eastern Ukraine gains nothing from being a part of this failed state. They don't want to fund it with their tax money and industry (of which the western Ukraine has almost none), and they don't want to be ruled by people that have nothing to do with them.


Ukraine certainly is failed state. Braking it apart is no solution. They need full system change, Russian way (corruption, oligarchy, authoritarian leadership) clearly did not work for them.



Do you know who the junta appointed as governors of the Eastern Ukrainian regions? Oligarchs that funded the Kiev's maidan (literally, the oligarchs themselves, not even their minions). And one of the first things they do when they come to power? They remove the official status of the Russian language (native language to the vast majority of people who leaves there). The new "governor" of Donetsk, appointed by the Kiev junta, has proposed to use international mercenaries (Blackwater, if you know what it is) to pacify the eastern regions. It's almost like they intentionally want to slap the Eastern Ukraine in the face.


More Russian propaganda. Btw; Blackwater doesn't exist anymore, it's called something like Academia nowadays. Appointing the oligarchs was pretty much necessity as they also own the factories and business in those regions. It was appeasing.



A political power hostile to you and your people organizes a revolution to seize control of the country, proclaims your language illegal, appoints it's oligarch sponsors as your governors, refuses to give your people any regional power, arrests your leaders and takes them away to Kiev, wants to hire US mercenaries to pacify you? Would YOU like it?

That is putinist-russia today narrative. There was spontaneous popular uprising, which tackled the old, extremely corrupted regime and left power vacuum. Temporary government was formed in hurry so that the country wont totally collapse. There will be new elections in may and people (also the Ukrainians in the east) will get to vote. Then there will be new government, which has many severe problems to solve, economic ones obviously are the most stressing as Yanukovych literally ran off with the money. Russia is certainly not helping at all, it's just causing more misery and chaos at Ukraine. Russia is a predator that is using it's neighbors weak moment to expand itself and steal resources.

[LightHouse89]

Blackwater is still the same compnay up to the usual. I have a relative that works for them as a business consultant. I have some shirts that say 'black water' with their logo. When I wear them to be an asshole in public I get dirty looks every now and then. I dont care. Blackwater is amazing.

Despite russian propaganda blackwater or their affiliates are not nor ever have been in Ukraine. Its an American private security company that works in South America and the Middle East to protect politicians and provide professional armed security. Its ranks are all ex military. I tried to get a job there for that but you cannot get a job for blackwater unless your prior military with combat experience.

[Hweinlant]

Despite russian propaganda blackwater or their affiliates are not nor ever have been in Ukraine.




The Real Facts Behind Recent Reporting on ACADEMI in Ukraine

March 17, 2014

Some irresponsible bloggers and an online reporter have recently posted rumors that ACADEMI employees (operating under the name of Blackwater) are present in Ukraine. They are not and ACADEMI has no relationship with any entity named Blackwater or with the former owner of Blackwater, Erik Prince. Such unfounded statements combined with the lack of factual reporting to support them and the lack of context about the company, are nothing more than sensationalistic efforts to create hysteria and headlines in times of genuine crisis.

The basics: Those who understand the facts know that Erik Prince sold the company (which he had renamed 'Xe') in 2010 and retained the rights to the 'Blackwater' name. The new management of ACADEMI has made tremendous efforts to build a responsible, transparent company ethos, evidenced by the numerous awards ACADEMI has received for being among the most compliant companies in our industry. More information can be found here.

http://academi.com/news_room/press_releases/88

[Cail]

Ukraine's oligarchs are planning to use / using Greystone, which is a spin off from Blackwater.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi#Greystone_Limited

https://www.google.com/#q=donetsk+greystone

Invited/hired by the oligarch governor Kolomoyski.

[Hweinlant]

Who fed and accommodated them? They were (perhaps are?) still there. I guess they're all unemployed. Western Ukraine is very poor.

People brought food and clothes to them. Kyiv's maidan was self sustained.

[Loki]

People brought food and clothes to them. Kyiv's maidan was self sustained.

Keep on fooling yourself.

[Hweinlant]

Ukraine's oligarchs are planning to use / using Greystone, which is a spin off from Blackwater.


This clip is apparently the source of those rumours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJQskrnzmuY

Funny as hell. Probably Russian actors. Think about it: American mercenaries emerge at Donetsk, in full combat gear and weapons. Then they run around on the street for few minutes and disappear :D

Then RT and Itar-tass start to spread the news.

Big LOL.

[Hweinlant]

Keep on fooling yourself.

http://tn.clashot.com/thumbs/1059053/47029071/thumb_w800.jpg
http://blogs.voanews.com/russia-watch/files/2013/12/potatoes-2-14T153410Z_2105703383_GM1E9CE1TAK01_RTRMADP_3_UKRA INE.jpg

[Loki]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26919928

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74077000/jpg/_74077941_8a584a46-0a55-48fa-ad1a-204466dc8d9f.jpg
The activists in Donetsk called for Russia to send in "peacekeepers" to protect them from Kiev

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74084000/jpg/_74084389_de0dd7c8-b5fd-4a4c-bb01-45f163a97ad4.jpg
The activists occupying the Donetsk government building overwhelmingly backed the declaration

[Hweinlant]

The activists occupying the Donetsk government building overwhelmingly backed the declaration

Russian democracy :D

[Loki]

Russian democracy :D

Do you think the current regime in Kiev was brought about by democratic means? No, it was a violent coup. Therefore it is illegitimate. They could have waited for elections.

[glass]

The nearly 1 million people (at its peak) euromaidan or the few thousands in Donetsk !?
just at one weekend, most of the time there were 10-15 thousands sitters


At Donetsk the Russian paid hooligans even attacked the maidan protest. Reason why Ukraine's government is heavily western is obviously because the Party-Of-Regions can not be part of it, due to their crimes against the people.
all attempts to start "euromaidans" in the east were put down by locals. If some mob comes enforce some shit, beating is good way to deal with them.

[Hexachordia]

Loki sometimes I think your a nut. But I do not hate Russia at all for what they are doing. I would think though areas of Ukraine that wish to be independent should be. But if Eastern Ukraine wishes to become part of Russia and the majority of people there want it then it should be.

Those people want nothing more than higher wages in oligarch companies. How long will their companies last if EU cut off the trade. Everything is in control of the few everywhere, as always. China has no money now. Independence is the best.

[glass]

People brought food and clothes to them. Kyiv's maidan was self sustained.
yeah it is very common among ordinary people in Ukraine have something like this (and spare it with protesters). I am sure :rolleyes:
http://s27.postimg.org/ivaoe9pg3/1529258_original.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Hweinlant]

yeah it is very common among ordinary people in Ukraine have something like this (and spare it with protesters). I am sure :rolleyes:


What are those ? Bajamajas ? It's very common that political parties are used to cater for large masses. Opposition parties teamed-up with the maidan.

[glass]

What are those ? Bajamajas ? It's very common that political parties are used to cater for large masses. Opposition parties teamed-up with the maidan.
it is toilets
If you have some even little brain you can calculate costs of maidan, It would be hundreds millions euro at very least. Food, fuel, toilet, shelter, entertaiment, doctors and medical supplies, transport from western Ukraine to Kiev for tens thousands, logistics overall etc etc etc.
But i am afraid my expectations of your brain capabilities are too high:rolleyes:

[Loki]

The US put $3billion into the Maidan revolution. Fact.

[awyr dywyll]

The US put $3billion into the Maidan revolution. Fact.

Source?

[Melina]

Source?

All western outlets here already claimed this and people here where rallying against it.

[awyr dywyll]

Do you think the current regime in Kiev was brought about by democratic means? No, it was a violent coup. Therefore it is illegitimate. They could have waited for elections.

No, they couldn't. After the jailbird tryed to stiffle Maidan by force and defeat in this event he left his post and fled shamefully, so this is jailbird didn't want to wait

[Hweinlant]

it is toilets
If you have some even little brain you can calculate costs of maidan, It would be hundreds millions euro at very least. Food, fuel, toilet, shelter, entertaiment, doctors and medical supplies, transport from western Ukraine to Kiev for tens thousands, logistics overall etc etc etc.
But i am afraid my expectations of your brain capabilities are too high:rolleyes:

- Food&drink, mostly donated but surely people at Ukraine can afford to buy their own food from store
- Shelter, they did occupy several buildings
- Entertainment ? Seriously, you think Ruslana send an invoice for her performance ?
- Doctors and medical supplies were volunteers/donated

Maidan really functioned on it's own. There is no black hand of CIA in this mess. It didn't sprung up overnight, it organically grew in couple months.

[Hweinlant]

The US put $3billion into the Maidan revolution. Fact.

That ambassador said that U.S has spent 5bln$ to support Ukraine's democratic institutions since 1991. That doesn't sound much to me. Small Finland has used something like 20bln$ in same period to support democratic institutions in developing countries (mostly Africa). That's called foreign aid. It's stupid and usually non-productive help (money often ends up into pockets of corrupted regimes) but it's very common and all developed countries do that. U.S targeting 5bln$ for Ukraine in period of more than 20 years is not much. Considering that Ukraine dis-armed it's nukes and all.

[Sarmatian]

Which is the more likely to be a rent-a-mob !? The nearly 1 million people (at its peak) euromaidan or the few thousands in Donetsk !?

You don't think you could feed all these tens and hundreds of thousands of people in Kiev's Maidan by caring old ladies for a few months, don't you? And then taking out their excrements in huge volumes. It was a complex logistic task that had to be planned by professionals some time before the actual event.

There was a video with people from Maidan saying that every vehicle entering Maidan area had to be authorized by its administrator Paruby, even those trucks that were making daily deliveries of supplies. If you take into account the fact of payments to at least core of Maidan's activists the total cost of Maidan could easy be half a million euros a day.

[Sarmatian]

Maidan really functioned on it's own.

You can't be serious. Many thousands of people living at the limited space in a makeshift shelter? Have you ever tried to organize a camp of at least 100 people?

[Hweinlant]

You don't think you could feed all these tens and hundreds of thousands of people in Kiev's Maidan by caring old ladies for a few months, don't you? And then taking out their excrements in huge volumes. It was a complex logistic task that had to be planned by professionals some time before the actual event.


Those people were not there all the time. You know, they went home for night and all. I assume that Kyivan people have toilets at home.

Vigilante groups had occupied several official buildings, which also had toilets and showers. There was basically few hundred vigilantes at the site all the time, rest of the demonstrator actually went home and came back again next day, or maybe after few days. There is really no mystery in this.

[Hweinlant]

You can't be serious. Many thousands of people living at the limited space in a makeshift shelter? Have you ever tried to organize a camp of at least 100 people?

There was not many thousands of people living at the site.

[Moonbird]

No - the paid agitators were the 'peaceful' demonstrators in Maidan square who were fed by the US. Rent-a-mob.


Why would the US help Russia in that way? Russian politicians have been talking about taking Crimea since they took Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia in 2008. The demonstration just gave them a pretext to speed things up.

[Sarmatian]

Those people were not there all the time. You know, they went home for night and all. I assume that Kyivan people have toilets at home.

Vigilante groups had occupied several official buildings, which also had toilets and showers. There was basically few hundred vigilantes at the site all the time, rest of the demonstrator actually went home and came back again next day, or maybe after few days. There is really no mystery in this.

Wrong. Majority of Maidan was actually living there full time. A few thousands of people came from other regions (mostly western) so they had no other place to stay. But even Kievans ended up staying there because many of them were scared to go home. As my friend from Kiev told me at the first few weeks of Maidan people indeed were coming for a daytime and going home at night. But then few were tracked from Maidan and murdered near their homes by unknown gangs. Since police was paralyzed nobody knew what was that: robberies or actual persecutions of activists. In any case as the word spread over Maidan many people decided it's much safer for them to stay there. That is when Maidan grew up significantly.

[Hweinlant]

Wrong. Majority of Maidan was actually living there full time. A few thousands of people came from other regions (mostly western) so they had no other place to stay. But even Kievans ended up staying there because many of them were scared to go home. As my friend from Kiev told me at the first few weeks of Maidan people indeed were coming for a daytime and going home at night. But then few were tracked from Maidan and murdered near their homes by unknown gangs. Since police was paralyzed nobody knew what was that: robberies or actual persecutions of activists. In any case as the word spread over Maidan many people decided it's much safer for them to stay there. That is when Maidan grew up significantly.

Here's pretty good write up how the Maidan was organised and operated:

http://casajurnalistului.ro/organising-euromaidan-the-biggest-protest-in-ukraines-recent-history/

[silentkiller]

It would be understandable, those are paid Russian agitators after all.

My relatives who live in Donetsk were in that manifestations, nobody paid them.
As my uncle said - they want to live "within real country, not that BS which Ukraine is being turned by Nazis now".

[glass]

- Food&drink, mostly donated but surely people at Ukraine can afford to buy their own food from store
- Shelter, they did occupy several buildings
- Entertainment ? Seriously, you think Ruslana send an invoice for her performance ?
- Doctors and medical supplies were volunteers/donated

Maidan really functioned on it's own. There is no black hand of CIA in this mess. It didn't sprung up overnight, it organically grew in couple months.
People that can afford food from stores usualy have jobs and can not "afford" sitting on maidan.
You are free to see any videos from maidan, they had tents, they plastic and plain office furniture inside, which can not be donated by common people rather bought from store
If people have nothing to do, they usualy start to fuck or beat each other, that is very bad for moral and discipline. So maidan organizers had to keep them busy and also have somewhat police force inside just to keep order. Means a lot of people who qualified to do such job.
Medical supplies cost money, who donated them?
Also you totaly skiped toilet part. From where those toilets come from? There were 80-100 such toilets on maidan. Also there were needed daily services of cleaning those toilets, taking away all shit collected during day. Also volunteers?
Maidan could not functioned on its own, Just very simple calculations says about millions of euro each day...
They also had to endure a few very harch winter weeks as well, which applies additional demand of food and fuel
No CIA hand there? Really? What about all those american officials on maidan?

[LightHouse89]

I think Russia should give everybody pass ports and then send in its Army to liberate everyone. The attorney general of America is now going to give and enforce every american citizen who owns a gun a bracelet that monitors us 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Tyranny rules us now. Good work Obozo and DemoCoons.

[Loki]

Whatever the case, the "Maidaners" were a bunch of hippy and Nutzi shit who probably liked to wallow in their own urine and excrement. Put them all in a concentration camp or something. I'm ashamed they have white skin, they don't behave like Europeans. Scum.

[Loki]

Why would the US help Russia in that way? Russian politicians have been talking about taking Crimea since they took Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia in 2008. The demonstration just gave them a pretext to speed things up.

Russia doesn't need the US' help. The US is the enemy - the politicians at least.

[LightHouse89]

Whatever the case, the "Maidaners" were a bunch of hippy and Nutzi shit who probably liked to wallow in their own urine and excrement. Put them all in a concentration camp or something. I'm ashamed they have white skin, they don't behave like Europeans. Scum.

I do not mind the right sector for their opinions. But their actions were very criminal. I mean the cops that got attacked that wasnt right. I feel bad for the Ukrainian police. I wonder how many returned to work after the formation of the new government. I wonder how many Ukrainian protestors were charged or sentenced for crimes against public property and the police etc....I bet not one. That isnt right.

[LightHouse89]

Russia doesn't need the US' help. The US is the enemy - the politicians at least.

The feds well republicans and democoons are snakes. Shit for nothing leaders who are in the back pocket of the UN and every other country with a business interest in America. I want the South to break away again from this government. Maybe EU and Russia Chian could help and lend us money to do so?

[Hweinlant]

I do not mind the right sector for their opinions. But their actions were very criminal. I mean the cops that got attacked that wasnt right.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Freedom isn't free.

[LightHouse89]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Freedom isn't free.

On a personal note what goes on in Europe is the responsiblity for Europeans not Americans. I think we forget this. I do not really care what happens in Ukraine it's their responsibility not mine. I do not want my government to involve itself but it needs to be the international tramp by selling our resources to other countries for high prices ofcourse.

I am very much anti government here as are many people here now. The anti US government sentimnet is growing in America. Take for example the recent ruling that the attorney general made, Obama's lackey of the justice department. He wants to impose a new thing where if your a gun owner you have to wear an ankle bracelet that has a GPS on it. Tell me that is American? Sounds like socialism. We have our own issues here so I could care less what goes on in the world when my government has made threats to use predator drones on political dissedents in America. We are ruled by snakes and Satan himself as far as I am concerned.

[Sarmatian]

Here's pretty good write up how the Maidan was organised and operated:

http://casajurnalistului.ro/organising-euromaidan-the-biggest-protest-in-ukraines-recent-history/

:picard2:

What a load of crap.

Here is how things are organized in Kiev (in Russian, turn on captions and translate)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SDm4pI4fqzw

[Loki]

Russia should just run through Ukraine with their military hardware, down the Ukrainian moth-balled MiG-29s and get it over with. Shouldn't take longer than 48 hours.

However, Putin is too smart for it. He will wait for the right moment, and the right course of action.

[LightHouse89]

Russia should just run through Ukraine with their military hardware, down the Ukrainian moth-balled MiG-29s and get it over with. Shouldn't take longer than 48 hours.

However, Putin is too smart for it. He will wait for the right moment, and the right course of action.

I can forsee this happening. Then Poland and Finland.

[Sarmatian]

I can forsee this happening. Then Poland and Finland.

Poland and Finland are different nations. Russia will not gain anything by invading them.

[LightHouse89]

Poland and Finland are different nations. Russia will not gain anything by invading them.

Ofcourse they would access to the north sea, and Poland is like the perfect launching pad to launch attacks at western europe.

[Sarmatian]

Ofcourse they would access to the north sea, and Poland is like the perfect launching pad to launch attacks at western europe.

What are you talking about? Russia have access to all seas it's need already. As for launching pads Russian military rebuilding old Soviet aerodrome in Crimea as we speak. It will allow Russian strategic bombers to reach targets as far as Ireland.

[Shkembe Chorba]

http://i.imgur.com/tbS252y.png

[Moonbird]

My relatives who live in Donetsk were in that manifestations, nobody paid them.
As my uncle said - they want to live "within real country, not that BS which Ukraine is being turned by Nazis now".

If your relatives want to live in Russia, wouldn't it be better if they just moved there instead of instigating a military invasion? And by the way, they might bump into some "bad Nazis" in Russia too :rolleyes:


Whatever the case, the "Maidaners" were a bunch of hippy and Nutzi shit who probably liked to wallow in their own urine and excrement. Put them all in a concentration camp or something. I'm ashamed they have white skin, they don't behave like Europeans. Scum.

I don't know if you're trolling or have you really turned into such a hardcore Communist that you now like them see Nazis everywhere? When I joined this site in 2010 there were lots of openly Nazis here, and you even appointed some of them to mods.

[Sarmatian]

If your relatives want to live in Russia, wouldn't it be better if they just moved there instead of instigating a military invasion? And by the way, they might bump into some "bad Nazis" in Russia too :rolleyes:

Why should they? They are Russians, it's their land, their families lived there for centuries. The fact it belongs to other country today is a mistake that has to be fixed. That's what people of Donetsk want. Is it hard to understand?

[RandoBloom]

Why should they? They are Russians, it's their land, their families lived there for centuries. The fact it belongs to other country today is a mistake that has to be fixed. That's what people of Donetsk want. Is it hard to understand?

Their lands for centuries :laugh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

[RandoBloom]

http://i.imgur.com/tbS252y.png

That is beautiful. Hopefuly there will only be one of those per day, with thousands wanting it :D

[Loki]

I don't know if you're trolling or have you really turned into such a hardcore Communist that you now like them see Nazis everywhere? When I joined this site in 2010 there were lots of openly Nazis here, and you even appointed some of them to mods.

We still have Nazi-sympathisers on this board, but it doesn't mean *I* have to be one as well :)

[Moonbird]

Why should they? They are Russians, it's their land, their families lived there for centuries. The fact it belongs to other country today is a mistake that has to be fixed. That's what people of Donetsk want. Is it hard to understand?

We are many who share the destiny of being a minority in a country where our forefathers have lived for centuries. There will always be people ending up on the wrong side of a border. More than half of my family has moved to Sweden but I prefer living in Finland.

IMO Russians and Ukrainians shouldn't have that difficult getting along, they share the same culture and even their languages sound pretty alike to me.

[Sarmatian]

We are many who share the destiny of being a minority in a country where our forefathers have lived for centuries. There will always be people ending up on the wrong side of a border. More than half of my family has moved to Sweden but I prefer living in Finland.

IMO Russians and Ukrainians shouldn't have that difficult getting along, they share the same culture and even their languages sound pretty alike to me.

You're right on your case but in Ukraine it's a bit different. These people can't be considered a minority since they making up to 90% of population of their regions. The way they ended up on the wrong side of the border is very questionable and subject of debates and alterations.

But on its own it's not such a big deal, people can live with that as they have shown for the last 20 years. The attitude of central government is the deal-breaker here. Anti-Russian sentiments are very strong in the western parts of the country and government did absolutely nothing to resolve the situation. More to that officials were using the attitude of common people to gain popularity and take better seats in Kiev. For 20 years they were encouraging Russia-bashing in forms of humiliation at best and open hostility at worst. And all this crap was projected on the large body of their own people. Who would want to live like that?

[Sarmatian]

According to reports from Donetsk locals captured buses with foreign mercenaries. None of them speak Russian or Ukrainian, all English speakers, one black guy.

They will be held captives for now as a proof of criminal intent of current minister of Internal Affairs Avakov.

[Ultra]

According to reports from Donetsk locals captured buses with foreign mercenaries. None of them speak Russian or Ukrainian, all English speakers, one black guy.

They will be held captives for now as a proof of criminal intent of current minister of Internal Affairs Avakov.
So the locals must be armed to the teeth then, huh?

[Sarmatian]

So the locals must be armed to the teeth then, huh?

Nah, there was just a huge crowd throwing stones at the bus with some cars blocking the road. It’s also doesn’t say if these mercs were armed, only that they have been wearing a uniform of Ukrainian police.

[Ultra]

Nah, there was just a huge crowd throwing stones at the bus with some cars blocking the road. It’s also doesn’t say if these mercs were armed, only that they have been wearing a uniform of Ukrainian police.
Ah, I see. Would that mean that the Kiev government have problems deploying actual police and/or military to Donetsk willing to carry out their orders?

[Loki]

IMO Russians and Ukrainians shouldn't have that difficult getting along, they share the same culture and even their languages sound pretty alike to me.

The thing here is that it is the US and NATO which are instigating this division, in order to make geopolitical gains on Russia. But it has already backfired. Crimea is the most important strategically.

[Sarmatian]

Ah, I see. Would that mean that the Kiev government have problems deploying actual police and/or military to Donetsk willing to carry out their orders?

There is official statement from Interior Minister about approximately 30% of Kharkov’s police being fired for not following the orders from Kiev. This ‘genius’ pushing well trained professionals to the protesters side himself. If things will keep going like that many police officers will switch sides themselves.

For example there is unconfirmed report of Berkut (riot police) in Kharkov joining protesters. Entire unit at once.

[Sarmatian]

Btw according to one of Crimean officials a girl was beaten to death in Lviv for speaking Russian language

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?121600-Во-Львове-забили-насмерть-девушку-за-рус-1089&p=2552707&viewfull=1#post2552707

[LightHouse89]

I am shocked the US media is not showing any of this on TV. I mean the protest from either side in Ukraine and then turn around and expect American people to have an educated opinion on the situation.....foreigners wonder why Americans are stupid? [I mean the average citizen that is] its because they are purposely uninformed about this stuff.

The Malayasian airlines is the topic over here and its pretty annoying when every morning before work this is all I hear.....Breaking News! We have heard and confimred we heard another Ping!!!!! The US government is sneding its pacific naval fleet to find one downed air craft......My couitnry is ran by morons.

[awyr dywyll]

We still have Nazi-sympathisers on this board, but it doesn't mean *I* have to be one as well :)

Great! Marvel at these Russian antifascists

Pavel Gubarev "Russian governor" of Donetsk
http://s020.radikal.ru/i703/1404/37/68aacdabb315.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)http://s019.radikal.ru/i643/1404/f7/c1ad11f6425b.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)http://s020.radikal.ru/i706/1404/e8/2f4a1df645dd.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

After their neo-nazist sabbaths they cling to themselves St.George ribbons (symbol of victory over Hitler in Russia , not today) and go to fight agianst mythical "Ukrainian fascists"
Typical Russian hypocricy nowadays

[silentkiller]

Even if this is a propaganda, Donetsk people are brought to a state of psychosis. How a person with normal psyche can shout like that?
It's obviously people there already have something like a neurosis developed by actions of the Kiev authorities.

They scream something like: Where's him? Stay still, bitch! It's he who was shooting to our people. Where's your gun? Hold him still. Look what he got. Who are you? And then guy on the ground says: "I'm US citizen".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3NgHXZjb9E

Another video, annotation says:
In Donetsk people seized the buses with American mercenaries. Bus was surrounded and blocked, it's confirmed there are mercenaries! There are even Negros, all are English-speaking, they were trying to escape from persecution, but the tenacity of our guys had an effect! Our guys are chanting "Fascists, surrender!" and rocking the bus.
As I heard they were screaming: "Yankee, go home", "These guys brought us some 'souvenirs'"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-H1EXiMVqE

And the last one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ehlIP23ioc

[Yaroslav]

Great! Marvel at these Russian antifascists

Pavel Gubarev "Russian governor" of Donetsk
http://s020.radikal.ru/i703/1404/37/68aacdabb315.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)http://s019.radikal.ru/i643/1404/f7/c1ad11f6425b.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)http://s020.radikal.ru/i706/1404/e8/2f4a1df645dd.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

After their neo-nazist sabbaths they cling to themselves St.George ribbons (symbol of victory over Hitler in Russia , not today) and go to fight agianst mythical "Ukrainian fascists"
Typical Russian hypocricy nowadays

Russia is fascist, which is a very good thing. They nominally condemn fascism to get people nostalgic about World War II and galvanize them to fight the West.

[LightHouse89]

I did not see any Americans. Or black people can you provide pictures. The guy in the first video didn't say anything, all I hear is Russian screaming etc..................He looked like a Swat guy with a Russian swat vest on. Or Ukrainian I cant tell the difference of either language forgive my ignorance.

[LightHouse89]

They have Jews and Muslims in their ranks wouldn't they be heretics? Not to mention 95% of Russians are Orthodox so technically they are all going to hell Yaroslav. They should all be Protestant and they will see the light!

[silentkiller]

I did not see any Americans. Or black people can you provide pictures. The guy in the first video didn't say anything, all I hear is Russian screaming etc..................He looked like a Swat guy with a Russian swat vest on. Or Ukrainian I cant tell the difference of either language forgive my ignorance.

He had uniform of Ukrainian SWAT. Whatever, I'm also seeking for pictures or good quality videos of Negroes, sent to Ukraine.

[LightHouse89]

He had uniform of Ukrainian SWAT. Whatever, I'm also seeking for pictures or good quality videos of Negroes, sent to Ukraine.

Please make sure to post them. I would find it strange that Ukraine would hire mercenaries without my governments approval and military assistance is officially a no go here by the way. This wouldn't rule out them going behind my governments back as their headquarters is not even in America, its in South America by the way....and not everyone who works for them is American. It is owned by a former Navy SEAL. [the former Black Water].....my cousin briefly worked for them as a security contractor. I have two Blackwater shirts and a security contractor hat....I wear them in public to be an asshole sometimes :p I just wouldn't wear them around Iraqis....that would be like kicking them in the balls.

Also the man on the ground didn't say a word in the video. The videos provided are not great quality. If they want to prove mercenaries are there they should scream in the video but ask them questions and interrogate them or ask them something in Ukrainian...if they don't answer back or make a mistake they are obviously foreigners. That's what Germans did to Americans in ww2 and that's what we did to their special forces who disguised themselves as American soldiers.....we would ask them question like which team won the world series in 1918? If they could answer it they were obviously not Americans.

[silentkiller]

Thousands of people joined the army of People's Republic of Donetsk.

More than a thousand people joined the army of People's Republic of Donetsk for this night. Basically, these are the people who actively participated in meetings and the construction of barricades. On the eve, the representatives of the People's Republic of Donetsk announced the creation their own army.
Igor Kakidzyanov became its leader. According to the protesters, "the establishment of the people's army is necessary to protect the inhabitants of People's Republic of Donetsk and the region as a whole". During the formation of the interim government in Donetsk, Ekaterina Gubaryova became foreign minister. Her husband Pavel Gubaryov, a people's governor of Donbass, is under arrest in Kiev.
Wife of people's governor told about when new Cabinet of Ministers of People's Republic of Donetsk will be formed.
- Government is formed before the referendum which we assigned to May, 11. After the referendum will be held, and we will determine the status of our territory, further destiny of established government also will be decided. I established the contacts with Donetsk, from a territory of the Russian Federation, and the decision was made, that it would be easier for me to monitor all international relations. Currently the remaining posts of government are being formed. I think that all posts will be established by early next week - Ekaterina Gubaryova said.

According to the materials of the news portal Lifenews.
Source: http://novorossia.su/node/357

[LightHouse89]

Here we go! Ukraine is one hell of a roller coaster.

[Veneda]

Poland and Finland are different nations. Russia will not gain anything by invading them.

Спасибо Вам большое. Теперь мой сон будет крайне спокойным :D

[awyr dywyll]

Russia is fascist, which is a very good thing. They nominally condemn fascism to get people nostalgic about World War II and galvanize them to fight the West.

Exactly! That's what i'm talkin about!

Hitler+Stalin=Putin

Two previous persons are all-round champions for the number of killing of "white people". So we may expect break their records from their successor

[Loki]

Exactly! That's what i'm talkin about!

Hitler+Stalin=Putin

Two previous persons are all-round champions for the number of killing of "white people". So we may expect break their records from their successor

Putin is not an evil man. He has been unfairly demonized by the Western press and politicians. If you cut through the crap and hear what he actually says ... what his opinions really are, then you will be surprised. For exampe, the EU is Russia's main trading partner. Don't believe all the nonsense you see in the news.

[awyr dywyll]

Putin is not an evil man. He has been unfairly demonized by the Western press and politicians. ... what his opinions really are, then you will be surprised. For exampe, the EU is Russia's main trading partner. Don't believe all the nonsense you see in the news.

I don't need the news to understand who is he (btw i have a pleasure to watch Russian state TV channels). I see what he does!


If you cut through the crap and hear what he actually says
Oh yeah! "пиздеть он мастер" i don't know how to say it for English, smth. like "great orator" ;)


For exampe, the EU is Russia's main trading partner.
EU shoulda stop cultivate the beast with his own hands before it's too late

[Loki]

I don't need the news to understand who is he (btw i have a pleasure to watch Russian state TV channels). I see what he does!


And what is that? Please enlighten us.

[Loki]

EU shoulda stop cultivate the beast with his own hands before it's too late

Why should Europe and Russia be enemies? It need not be that way. In any case, Russia will do a lot more business with China and the rest of East Asia in the future. China is energy-hungry. But Europe will still remain a strong Russian economic partner.

The big problem here is American anti-Russian propaganda.

It's good and healthy to have a strong Russia. Let the the beast grow! :thumb001:

[awyr dywyll]

And what is that? Please enlighten us.

Makes the open aggression against neighboring country and prepares disaster for Russia on the side, consciously or not i don't know


Why should Europe and Russia be enemies? It need not be that way. In any case, Russia will do a lot more business with China and the rest of East Asia in the future. China is energy-hungry. But Europe will still remain a strong Russian economic partner.

The big problem here is American anti-Russian propaganda.
Your name is Sergey Lavrov?


It's good and healthy to have a strong Russia. Let the the beast grow!
:D
For money that Europeans spent on Russian gas and Chinese clobber, they will make a couple of nuclear intercontinental missiles which will be aimed at some regions of Europe.So keep going!

[Sarmatian]

Makes the open aggression against neighboring country...

Oh really? When did that happened? If you're talking about Crimea the contingent of Russian troops was within agreement and their 'aggressive' activities were far more peaceful than supposedly peacekeeping operations of US/NATO.


...and prepares disaster for Russia on the side, consciously or not i don't know

I see so many prophets among Ukrainians lately... Why didn't you use your extraordinary talents to prevent the loss of Crimea? :rolleyes:

[awyr dywyll]

Oh really? When did that happened? If you're talking about Crimea the contingent of Russian troops was within agreement and their 'aggressive' activities were far more peaceful than supposedly peacekeeping operations of US/NATO.
"Enigmatic green humanoids" came from Russian bases in Crimea, that was very unexpected tactical action for Ukrainians, or stab in the back in other words. Surrounded units did not want to die for Crimea, moreover it would mean the beginning the full scale war between two countries it's not good decision in that period, i can understand them.Those tyrans who confronted western coalition in previous wars did not care for human lifes and they wanted the war



I see so many prophets among Ukrainians lately... Why didn't you use your extraordinary talents to prevent the loss of Crimea? :rolleyes:
I should have raised to the presidency or generalissimus of Ukrainian forces, to implement some of my theories into practice, in this case Crimea would still our, and we would capture Taman peninsula

[Sarmatian]

"Enigmatic green humanoids" came from Russian bases in Crimea, that was very unexpected tactical action for Ukrainians, or stab in the back in other words.

You're missing one important thing. Legitimate president of Ukraine had asked Russian government for a military assistance. So if we will strictly follow a word of law the presence of Russian military forces anywhere in Ukraine is legal.


I should have raised to the presidency or generalissimus of Ukrainian forces, to implement some of my theories into practice, in this case Crimea would still our, and we would capture Taman peninsula

Taman? :pound: :rofl:

You have some serious mental issues if you think you can just come and take anything from Kuban Cossacks. Even Chechens prefer to stay away from this area.

[LightHouse89]

Why should Europe and Russia be enemies? It need not be that way. In any case, Russia will do a lot more business with China and the rest of East Asia in the future. China is energy-hungry. But Europe will still remain a strong Russian economic partner.

The big problem here is American anti-Russian propaganda.

It's good and healthy to have a strong Russia. Let the the beast grow! :thumb001:

You silly Russophiles. I think President Putin is cooler than my president....and would gladly change them but Americans in many recent poles are unneffected by what is happening there. Infact most do not care. I am only following because I think the events are interesting. It would be interesting to a Ukrainian or Russian but me.....it doesnt effect me whether Ukraine goes back with Russia or joins the EU. I dont know why Europe wants us involved we do not gain anything by getting invovled.

[LightHouse89]

I don't need the news to understand who is he (btw i have a pleasure to watch Russian state TV channels). I see what he does!


Oh yeah! "пиздеть он мастер" i don't know how to say it for English, smth. like "great orator" ;)


EU shoulda stop cultivate the beast with his own hands before it's too late

Poland, Finland, Estonia, and Lithuania will be invaded next :( Nato is a joke. I would not be surprised if Czech Republic, the Balkans and Eastern Germany are next.

[silentkiller]

Faithful dog of his master, doggy deserved bone of today.
He's saying right things here, however.

http://cs617626.vk.me/v617626367/8e8d/faPaMLBCjCI.jpg

Pavel Sheremet: Donetsk separatists seized police station without a fight and blocked the military men. Ukrainskaya pravda (Ukrainian truth).
Ramzan Kadyrov: Your mom is a separatist, and in Donetsk there are people, the Ukrainian people.

[LightHouse89]

Faithful dog of his master, doggy deserved bone of today.
He's saying right things here, however.

http://cs617626.vk.me/v617626367/8e8d/faPaMLBCjCI.jpg

Pavel Sheremet: Donetsk separatists seized police station without a fight and blocked the military men. Ukrainskaya pravda (Ukrainian truth).
Ramzan Kadyrov: Your mom is a separatist, and in Donetsk there are people, the Ukrainian people.

so the chechens support Ukrainians? these slavs can be silly at times but I like it :thumb001: Why not create the Slavic Union? They might as well then if anything goes wrong they can blame themselves as oppose to the west for everything.

[silentkiller]

so the chechens support Ukrainians? these slavs can be silly at times but I like it :thumb001: Why not create the Slavic Union? They might as well then if anything goes wrong they can blame themselves as oppose to the west for everything.

Chechens support ones who pays more:D
Just funny pic...

http://cs617231.vk.me/v617231661/5be0/WhyFjfzpPok.jpg

[Ivan Kramskoï]

Very good, this part of the country has always been Russian lands.

[awyr dywyll]

You're missing one important thing. Legitimate president of Ukraine had asked Russian government for a military assistance. So if we will strictly follow a word of law the presence of Russian military forces anywhere in Ukraine is legal.
If he's a still president of Ukraine he must be on his workplace,but not in the enemy country and call the Ukrainians to civil war, he is a real traitor of his nation!



Taman? :pound: :rofl:
You have some serious mental issues if you think you can just come and take anything from Kuban Cossacks. Even Chechens prefer to stay away from this area.

Taman would just the beginning!:rolleyes: Cossacks endured communists 70 years, so under Ukrainian yoke they'd survived also

[awyr dywyll]

Poland, Finland, Estonia, and Lithuania will be invaded next :( Nato is a joke. I would not be surprised if Czech Republic, the Balkans and Eastern Germany are next.
Why?! Nato is the strongest military power in the world today, so Baltic countries can't be afraid of Russia, Putin or another tsar in the future won't dare to attack them, no matter how many ethnic Russians live there and how difficult for them to live under the Baltic yoke. So Ukraine also should join the North Atlantic alliance as soon as possible. Why do you think Putin is trying to establish loyal to him rulers in Ukraine? To prevent entry of Ukraine into NATo and EU ,and it is one of the main reasons

[Raven_]

No one is going to invade Lithuania for sure*. Even if Russians in Lithuania decide they want to join Russia, they would achieve nothing as their number is very low.* Even in Ukraine Rusia have staged 'unrest of he locals' instead of 'inavding' first. However, I wouldn't be suprised at all if Russia tries to stage provocations in Estonia and Latvia. Of course, without preparation to move there Russian army any minute. Hopefully.


*Though I must admit there are Lithuanians who think otherwise and feel very scared....
**It seems The Russian role is played by the local Polish party who is financed by Kremlin. Their demands and cries compare to Russians in Latvia and Estonia, even they themselves do not deny they have a lot in common.

[Sarmatian]

Taman would just the beginning!:rolleyes: Cossacks endured communists 70 years, so under Ukrainian yoke they'd survived also

I'm seriously in shock. The amount of stupidity that coming from an average Ukrainian is unbearable. It's seems like some sort of massive mental epidemic.

[Moonbird]

Why should they? They are Russians, it's their land, their families lived there for centuries. The fact it belongs to other country today is a mistake that has to be fixed. That's what people of Donetsk want. Is it hard to understand?

I've answered this before but I want to do it again because I didn't know at that time how very few of the ethnic Russians in Ukraine that in reality have families who have lived in the country for centuries. The big immigration of Russians started as late as with the industrialisation in the late 19th century. However as late as in 1926 there were only 8,6% ethnic Russians in Ukraine, to be compared with 22,1% in 1991. The Soviet Union deliberately spread out Russians all over the empire. In view of these figures this can be seen as a revolution done by immigrants.

[Moonbird]

Why should Europe and Russia be enemies? It need not be that way. In any case, Russia will do a lot more business with China and the rest of East Asia in the future. China is energy-hungry. But Europe will still remain a strong Russian economic partner.

The big problem here is American anti-Russian propaganda.

It's good and healthy to have a strong Russia. Let the the beast grow! :thumb001:

Russians were hated in Europe centuries before the USA was even invented.

[Sarmatian]

The big immigration of Russians started as late as with the industrialisation in the late 19th century.

The migration of Russians to empty lands of Wild Fields started as soon as the powerful enemy to the south, Crimean Khanate, was defeated and all territories including Crimea were annexed. And that was late 18th century.


However as late as in 1926 there were only 8,6% ethnic Russians in Ukraine, to be compared with 22,1% in 1991.

Where do you get your numbers from? If by Ukraine you mean its modern territory including Novorossiya there is no way Russians were only 8.6%.


The Soviet Union deliberately spread out Russians all over the empire. In view of these figures this can be seen as a revolution done by immigrants.

To understand the reasons for migration of people in USSR you should learn about its workforce management. Every person was assigned a job position, there was very limited freedom of choice. As result we have examples of Estonians living in Tadjikistan and Armenians in Ukraine. The ethnic background of a person in question was of a lowest importance.

[Breedingvariety]

I support any separation or joining of peoples based on referendums. Even if they come as immigrants. If different ethnicity becomes majority in certain territory, all it means is that the territory no longer belongs to previous ethnic inhabitants.

[Moonbird]

Where do you get your numbers from? If by Ukraine you mean its modern territory including Novorossiya there is no way Russians were only 8.6%.

From extracts from an article written by Tatjana Zjurzjenko, a philosopher and sociologist who grew up in eastern Ukraine and has worked at a university in Kharkiv and in Vienna. The text I found on the net is in Swedish, but you'll understand the numbers. You'll probably find more from her in Russian. The sentence is in the second last chapter. http://www.nytid.fi/2006/09/den-svara-tvasprakigheten/


År 1991 utgjorde etniska ryssar 22,1 procent av befolkningen, mot 8,2 procent 1926.

In the year 1991 the ethnic Russians were 22,1 percent of the population, compared to 8,2 percent in 1926.


To understand the reasons for migration of people in USSR you should learn about its workforce management. Every person was assigned a job position, there was very limited freedom of choice. As result we have examples of Estonians living in Tadjikistan and Armenians in Ukraine. The ethnic background of a person in question was of a lowest importance.

Yes, the same way that Ukrainians were "assigned" jobs far away from Ukraine. That doesn't give them either the right to now claim these territories as part of Ukraine.

[glass]

In the year 1991 the ethnic Russians were 22,1 percent of the population, compared to 8,2 percent in 1926.

cencus 1926 (http://demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/ussr_nac_26.php?reg=4)
This Ukraine without Crimea
Total 29m, russians 2.7m, ukrainians 23.2m, 4m others, mostly jews, germans and gypsies ( and alike)

Ukrainians were 80% of population without Crimea. In 2001 ukrainians were 77% of population with Crimea. I fail too see how "ukrainian" share became erased or how "native ukrainians are being replaced with anybody else. People of mixed ansectry most likely call themselves russians, because russians are master race and such:rolleyes: