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View Full Version : Neither male nor female – a great victory for Norrie



Loki
04-07-2014, 03:09 PM
Neither male nor female – a great victory for Norrie (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/02/neither-male-of-female-a-great-victory-for-norrie)

The Australian high court, when asked whether 'sex' could encompass a third, non-specific category beyond 'male' and 'female', gave an emphatic yes

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/4/2/1396417150323/dee4f0c6-6ce2-4c72-8a08-345080e0b4a9-460x276.jpeg
The Australian high court has ruled that New South Wales must recognise a third gender after handing down its decision in the long-running case of 'Norrie'

Q: 'Are you male or female'

A: 'No'

Q: -System Error-

Equal recognition and protection under the law is a concept that we hold sacred. But if the law does not recognise you, how can it protect you?

The answer is, it can’t. It can only protect a legal fiction of you. In a world where sex means male or female, this is an issue that sex diverse individuals such as Norrie, who do not identify as either, face daily. Denied legal recognition of their sex identity, they are denied protection and, by extension, social acceptance.

That sex and gender identity is important in our society is an understatement. When we meet someone, we notice their sex. When a baby is born we ask "girl or boy?". And of course, there are situations where we want to know a person's sex or gender for the purposes of removing discrimination and furthering human rights: for example, how can we know the extent of the wage gap otherwise?

But that data must be accurate, and it is imperative that we make the law fit the facts, and not force the facts to fit the law. Until today, we didn’t, requiring everyone to legally identify as male or female. And while many sex diverse people will identify as either male or female, Norrie is one of a small number of people who don't. Yet the law demanded they choose. It is a Kafkaesque absurdity to be told your identity doesn't exist, and yet for Norrie that is life.

Today, that changed. Norrie, who was told back in 2010 that birth certificates issued following gender affirmation surgery could only record "male" or "female", took the case to court. The case has been going ever since and last month the high court was asked to decide a beguilingly simple question: "what does "sex" mean?" One side argued that "sex" meant "male" or "female". The other side had Norrie, who wasn't either. Today the court, in a landmark decision, held that the law can and should recognise people who do not identify as male or female.

The ruling can be seen as the culmination of years of gradual legal recognition of sex and gender diversity. Over the last few decades the courts have established that people are not unambiguously male or female and that many people may exist somewhere between those two concepts. The federal government released guidelines allowing for recognition of a third sex or gender, and the sex discrimination act protects against discrimination on the basis of gender identity and intersex status. Drawing on this history, the court, when asked whether "sex" could encompass a third, "non-specific" category, gave an emphatic yes.

So what exactly does this mean?

As your identity on the register of births, deaths and marriages is the source of your legal identity for almost all other legal purposes in Australia, it means a lot. For Norrie, if the certificate states sex is non-specific on the register, then Norrie is sex non-specific for almost everything – banks, employment, library card, you name it. Unfortunately because not all legislation may allow for a non-binary interpretation of the word "sex", the high court pointed out that Norrie may possibly not be able to marry under the current marriage act.

People have lived beyond the binary for probably as long as there have been people. So why has it taken us this long to afford them recognition?

Part of the problem is that the law has never been good at recognising difference. For a long time, sex binarism has been accepted as a fact and people behaved accordingly. Often this is in the most mundane of ways, such as choosing which public bathroom to go into or what clothes to wear.

But the consequences can also be horrifying. Norrie was at least able to choose whether to have surgery and decide which box to tick. Others are not always afforded the luxury of choice: babies born with ambiguous genitalia are often assigned a sex at birth and undergo "correctional surgery". Parents and doctors, living in a sex binary world, want what they consider is best for their child. Hormones don't kick in till much later, at which point a teenager may be faced with an identity crisis, and possibly sterility, if their gender doesn't match up with their assigned sex.

The law has an important role to play in shaping and reinforcing cultural attitudes. It can reflect norms, but it can also help create them. It’s one of the reasons why we have anti-discrimination laws and vilification laws. Having the high court recognise that not everyone is strictly male or female, and that this can and should be recognised in our laws, will hopefully go some way towards removing stigma and creating greater acceptance of diversity in our community. At the moment the decision is confined to people who have had sex affirmation surgery, but it’s a start.

To have your identity, your own identity recognised in law, affords you some of the dignity and the respect that you deserve as a human being. It is a message from your community telling you to stand up and be counted, for you are one of us.

As Norrie said, "I know there's not many of us, but the law has to be for everyone."

safinator
04-07-2014, 03:11 PM
:picard2:

LightHouse89
04-07-2014, 03:15 PM
:picard2:

I have to laugh at the west for being such a joke. Such a sick joke its too funny.

michelle
04-07-2014, 03:23 PM
I think this is great. There are people who are born with ambiguous gender and have it thrust upon them, sometimes they feel it's the wrong gender and others feel an association with neither gender. IMO it's a very real thing and it should be recognized as such.

Neanderthal
04-07-2014, 03:27 PM
If you have a penis and balls you're a motherfucking male. That guy doesn't look sexually ambiguous, he looks like a old feminized tranny retard.

Cleitus
04-07-2014, 03:28 PM
kill it before it lays eggs !

Melina
04-07-2014, 03:38 PM
First world problems I tell ya....

portusaus
04-07-2014, 03:40 PM
Fucking freaks.

ALSh
04-07-2014, 03:42 PM
:blink:

Cail
04-07-2014, 03:45 PM
Shit like this ain't gonna fly in Russia lol.

iNird
04-07-2014, 03:49 PM
Didn't read but let me guess what it says:

Blah blah blah "gender is a social construct" blah blah blah

armenianbodyhair
04-07-2014, 03:52 PM
I think this should be mainly used for people who were born with an ambiguous sex and birth or different hormones than normal people who fit the binary. For them it is necessary, what I don't want is for hipster who want to be different to abuse that, that could be really detrimental to people who actually need this.

armenianbodyhair
04-07-2014, 03:54 PM
Didn't read but let me guess what it says:

Blah blah blah "gender is a social construct" blah blah blah

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

Dandelion
04-07-2014, 03:56 PM
Which gender was he/she born as then?

Jackson
04-07-2014, 04:10 PM
DNA test, if they've got a y chromosome they're a man, if they've got another X, a woman. If they have neither, or both, or some other strange condition that means they are neither male or female then they can be truly not male or female.

iNird
04-07-2014, 04:29 PM
Gender and sex are not the same thing.

ok semantics.

Jackson
04-07-2014, 05:46 PM
ok semantics.

Sex is biological, gender is more social. For example in this strange day and age i can be male but insist on being treated as a female. There is some basis for such, given that both physiologically and psychologically not all males are extremely male and not all females are extremely female. I mean you can get more feminine males, but they are still much more male than female. So i think the extreme femininity of some homosexual men is probably a social construct as much as the masculinity of some more feminine men. The same could apply to women in theory, but idk.

Kalimtari
04-07-2014, 05:53 PM
http://www.brucesallan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Empathy.png

alb0zfinest
04-07-2014, 05:56 PM
I have to laugh at the west for being such a joke. Such a sick joke its too funny.

Technically Australia is located on the east :p

zhaoyun
04-07-2014, 05:59 PM
Looks like half of my neighbors here in San Francisco. LOL

Dandelion
04-07-2014, 06:01 PM
DNA test, if they've got a y chromosome they're a man, if they've got another X, a woman. If they have neither, or both, or some other strange condition that means they are neither male or female then they can be truly not male or female.

Women with a Y chromosome exist by the way (Swyer syndrome).

Neanderthal
04-07-2014, 06:05 PM
Women with a Y chromosome exist by the way (Swyer syndrome).

Some of them look actually sexier than normal women (more curvy and more sexually appealing for some reason.)

Minesweeper
04-07-2014, 06:08 PM
You shall not pass here, creature.

Melina
04-07-2014, 06:10 PM
Some of them look actually sexier than normal women (more curvy and more sexually appealing for some reason.)

I thought they would look more manly..

Longbowman
04-07-2014, 06:11 PM
Some of them look actually sexier than normal women (more curvy and more sexually appealing for some reason.)

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/07/17/71/1900127/7/628x471.jpg

I think you might be gay.

Anyhoo, about the matter at hand, I don't care and I don't see why anyone else does. It's not like officially being male, female or x will confer some kind of magic power onto you at the expense of everyone else.

oh-nahhh
04-07-2014, 06:11 PM
Bull Ship!

You can't be neither male nor female...

Jackson
04-07-2014, 06:13 PM
Women with a Y chromosome exist by the way (Swyer syndrome).

Since naturally they would not experience puberty, and their sexual organs are not functional, they could be argued as being neither male or female then in a functional sense. So that leaves their gender up for decision, but since apparently they seem to look like women they would probably choose to have a female gender or be raised that way?

Neanderthal
04-07-2014, 06:14 PM
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/07/17/71/1900127/7/628x471.jpg

I think you might be gay.

Anyhoo, about the matter at hand, I don't care and I don't see why anyone else does. It's not like officially being male, female or x will confer some kind of magic power onto you at the expense of everyone else.

http://www.glowm.com/resources/glowm/cd/graphics/figures/v5/0800/006f.jpg

Read some articles bro, that thing is not a real woman but a freak pretending to have a condition, although I agree XY women are not real women technically either. :lol:

Sikeliot
04-07-2014, 06:20 PM
I fully support people identifying with a sex other than the one with which they were assigned at birth, but this "I am neither male nor female" needs to stop.

Óttar
04-07-2014, 06:27 PM
Many cultures accept the existence of a third gender including classical India. In Sanskrit, the term is tritiya prakriti i.e. "the third nature."

Kalimtari
04-07-2014, 06:31 PM
Many cultures accept the existence of a third gender including classical India. In Sanskrit, the term is tritiya prakriti i.e. "the third nature."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYZE2bcHkAU