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Loki
04-08-2014, 12:06 PM
It's not Russia that is destabilising Ukraine

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/07/sergei-lavrov-russia-stabilise-ukraine-west

The profound and pervasive crisis in Ukraine is a matter of grave concern for Russia. We understand perfectly well the position of a country which became independent just over 20 years ago and still faces complex tasks in constructing a sovereign state. Among them is the search for a balance of interests among its various regions, the peoples of which have different historical and cultural roots, speak different languages and have different perspectives on their past and present, and their country's future place in the world.

Given these circumstances, the role of external forces should have been to help Ukrainians protect the foundations of civil peace and sustainable development, which are still fragile. Russia has done more than any other country to support the independent Ukrainian state, including for many years subsidising its economy through low energy prices. Last November, at the outset of the current crisis, we supported Kiev's wish for urgent consultations between Ukraine, Russia and the EU to discuss harmonising the integration process. Brussels flatly rejected it. This stand reflected the unproductive and dangerous line the EU and US have been taking for a long time. They have been trying to compel Ukraine to make a painful choice between east and west, further aggravating internal differences.

Ukraine's realities notwithstanding, massive support was provided to political movements promoting western influence, and it was done in direct breach of the Ukrainian constitution. This is what happened in 2004, when President Viktor Yushchenko won an unconstitutional third round of elections introduced under EU pressure. This time round, power in Kiev was seized undemocratically, through violent street protests conducted with the direct participation of ministers and other officials from the US and EU countries.

Assertions that Russia has undermined efforts to strengthen partnerships on the European continent do not correspond to the facts. On the contrary, our country has steadily promoted a system of equal and indivisible security in the Euro-Atlantic area. We proposed signing a treaty to that effect, and advocated the creation of a common economic and human space from the Atlantic to the Pacific which would also be open to post-Soviet countries.

In the meantime, western states, despite their repeated assurances to the contrary, have carried out successive waves of Nato enlargement, moved the alliance's military infrastructure eastward and begun to implement antimissile defence plans. The EU's Eastern Partnership programme is designed to bind the so-called focus states tightly to itself, shutting down the possibility of co-operation with Russia. Attempts by those who staged the secession of Kosovo from Serbia and of Mayotte from the Comoros to question the free will of Crimeans cannot be viewed as anything but a flagrant display of double standards. No less troubling is the pretence of not noticing that the main danger for the future of Ukraine is the spread of chaos by extremists and neo-Nazis.

Russia is doing all it can to promote early stabilisation in Ukraine. We are firmly convinced that this can be achieved through, among other steps: real constitutional reform, which would ensure the legitimate rights of all Ukrainian regions and respond to demands from its south-eastern region to make Russian the state's second official language; firm guarantees on Ukraine's non-aligned status to be enshrined in its laws, thus ensuring its role as a connecting link in an indivisible European security architecture; and urgent measures to halt activity by illegal armed formations of the Right Sector and other ultra-nationalist groups.

We are not imposing anything on anyone, we just see that if it is not done, Ukraine will continue to spiral into crisis with unpredictable consequences. We stand ready to join international efforts aimed at achieving these goals. We support the appeal by foreign ministers of Germany, France and Poland to implement the 21 February agreement. Their proposal – to hold Russia-EU talks with the participation of Ukraine and other Eastern Partnership states about the consequences of EU association agreements – corresponds to our position.

The world of today is not a junior school where teachers assign punishments at will. Belligerent statements such as those heard at the Nato foreign ministers meeting in Brussels on 1 April do not match demands for a de-escalation. De-escalation should begin with rhetoric. It is time to stop the groundless whipping-up of tension, and to return to serious common work.

Hweinlant
04-08-2014, 12:32 PM
Imo Lavrov is partially right. Original destabilization of Ukraine wasn't that much of Russian doings. The main culprit was Yanukovych and his kleptocratic regime. Rest of Lavrov's narrative is same old crap they've been singing years. Western betrayal , NATO expansion etc. What Lavrov and rest of the Putinists should ask from themselves is: Why did all of the eastern Europe ran to NATO ? Why they did it eagerly, willingly and with speed.

Don't blame the mirror if your face is awry.

Loki
04-08-2014, 02:09 PM
The main culprit was Yanukovych and his kleptocratic regime.

He was elected democratically in independently-verified elections. The way to go was to voice concerns at the following elections - NOT crazy, frantic and violent revolution. But, it seems it is working out for the best now. If they (the Maidan rabble) had waited for elections, Ukraine would still have been intact. They have scored a huge own-goal. Now, Crimea already belongs to Russia and the east is looking to separate in a nasty way.

Hweinlant
04-08-2014, 02:51 PM
He was elected democratically in independently-verified elections.


So what ? He is a thief and a murderer. He had no legitimacy.

http://yanukovychleaks.org/



The way to go was to voice concerns at the following elections - NOT crazy, frantic and violent revolution. But, it seems it is working out for the best now. If they (the Maidan rabble) had waited for elections, Ukraine would still have been intact. They have scored a huge own-goal. Now, Crimea already belongs to Russia and the east is looking to separate in a nasty way.

You seriously think that people at maidan had any other goal than to get rid of that crook Yanukovych and turn the direction of the country ? Russia stealing/annexing Crimea is Russia's shame, not Ukraine's. Ukraine didn't break any international treaties, Russia did. Russia promised to protect Ukraine's sovereignty (Budapest treaty), Russia has promised to protect and respect borders of European countries (OSCE treaties), Russia has promised to protect and respect borders and sovereign countries, not to invade them an steal parts of them (UN treaties).

Why do you hate Ukrainians Loki ?

glass
04-08-2014, 03:17 PM
Why did all of the eastern Europe ran to NATO ? Why they did it eagerly, willingly and with speed.

rather freshly instaled elite in eastern europe than people of eastern europe themselves

Hweinlant
04-08-2014, 07:22 PM
rather freshly instaled elite in eastern europe than people of eastern europe themselves

Who installed ? Why ?

Shkembe Chorba
04-08-2014, 09:00 PM
Ukraine's crime rates:

http://i.imgur.com/lfhEVX4.png

RandoBloom
04-08-2014, 09:04 PM
Ukraine's crime rates:

http://i.imgur.com/lfhEVX4.png

Russianized maniacs not only mental but cryminal in every way

Loki
04-09-2014, 11:02 AM
Why do you hate Ukrainians Loki ?

I don't hate Ukrainians but you hate Russians. Everybody knows that.

Hweinlant
04-09-2014, 04:07 PM
I don't hate Ukrainians but you hate Russians. Everybody knows that.

Ofcource you hate the Ukrainians, you hate them with passion. You even want Russian Army to attack Ukraine and murder Ukrainians (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?121374-Donetsk-People%92s-Council-Set-to-Hold-Referendum-to-Join-Russia-May-11&p=2549699&viewfull=1#post2549699). You also would like to throw one million normal Ukrainian people, who participated into Euromaidan protest, into concentration camp (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?121374-Donetsk-People%92s-Council-Set-to-Hold-Referendum-to-Join-Russia-May-11&p=2549541&viewfull=1#post2549541). I would say that's categorical hate. I don't hate Russians categorically. I'm in-fact about 1/64 Russian myself. I dont like the Putinist regime nor their brain dead zombi-like followers (70% of Russians). They are major threat for world peace, like commies, nazis or islamists. Fuck em'.

Sarmatian
04-10-2014, 07:29 AM
Ukraine's crime rates:

http://i.imgur.com/lfhEVX4.png

I see someone is good in painting maps with different colors. I can do that too and as well can add some numbers to it.

Anyway what the fcuk it have to do with this thread?

RandoBloom
04-10-2014, 07:32 AM
I see someone is good in painting maps with different colors. I can do that too and as well can add some numbers to it.

Anyway what the fcuk it have to do with this thread?

"I dont agree with you, all your arguments are thus false" :laugh:
Slavic logic strikes again

Apis
04-10-2014, 07:41 AM
"I dont agree with you, all your arguments are thus false" :laugh:
Slavic logic strikes again

Do you not realise that you are also Slavic? Hrulj - and I say this with absolutely no intention to offend - you are easily the least intelligent person I've ever come across. The worst part is that you are not self-aware, so you continue to outright embarrass yourself wherever you decide to give your unwelcomed opinion.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

You need to start living your life by the above quote. I suppose your audacity should be admired, since any self-respecting human being with your ability to process the world around them would have stopped talking a long time ago.

Sarmatian
04-10-2014, 07:58 AM
"I dont agree with you, all your arguments are thus false" :laugh:
Slavic logic strikes again

It's amuzing to see brainless people talking about logic :rolleyes: