Anthropological portraits from Setesdal in Aust-Agder, Norway. The Schreinerske Collection.

[Pallantides]

The names of Alette Schreiner (1873-1951) and Kristian Emil Schreiners (1874-1957 are linked with the development of the institute and pyshical anthroplogy in Norway, a descriptive work that was based on studies and measuring human types, they studied both living people and skeletons from different parts of Norway, especially in Sámi areas, large collections of material was gathered at the institute in the peroid called the "Schreinerske era".

The photographs in this Series are from a study conducted in 1924 that took place in Setesdal, Aust-Agder in southern Norway, in the unique rural community of Valle that was believed to have been largly isolated from industrilization and the changes of the outside world.


Åsmund Rygnestad
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4683/rygnestad.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3198/rygnestad1.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1879/rygnestad2.jpg

Taddeiv B. Åkre
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/taddeiv.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/taddeiv1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/taddeiv2.jpg

Torjus B. Åkre
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/torjus.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/torjus1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/torjusb.jpg

Ånund Drengssøn Rike
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/rike1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/rike2.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/rike3.jpg

Olav Kristoffersen Viken
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/olav.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/olav1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/olav2.jpg

Halvor Nomeland
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/halvor1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/halvor2.jpg

Halvor T. Homme
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/homme.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/homme1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/homme2.jpg

Dreng H. Homme
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/dreng1-1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/dreng2.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/dreng3.jpg

Bjørgulv Kjellberg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/kjellberg1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/kjellberg2.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/kjellberg3.jpg

Ånond B. Harstad
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/harstad1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/harsatad2.jpg

Guro Ketilsdatter Nomeland
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/guro1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/guro2.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/guro3.jpg

Jorond Tveiten
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/jorond1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/jorond2.jpg

Signe Kvassaker
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/signe.jpg

[Agrippa]

I read about Valle in C.S. Coons work.

Of those Halvor Nomeland is the most typically Nordid individual in my opinion. Most others are predominantely Nordid or Nordid-Dalofaelid, Dalofaelid too.

Interestingly the same can't be said about the females, which are all much less Nordid, in this sample at least.

[Pallantides]

Jon Løiland and Torleif Kvestad
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/tor.jpg

Ketil Nomeland
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/ketil1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/ketil2.jpg

Jørgen T. Homme
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/t1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/t2.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/t3.jpg

Ole Knutsøn Tveiten
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/ole1.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/ole2.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/ole3.jpg

[Pallantides]

Interestingly the same can't be said about the females, which are all much less Nordid, in this sample at least.

There weren't that many good pictures of the women...
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/viki.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4367/kivinnebran.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3555/kvinne8.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3700/kvinne7.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/294/kvinnebudeie.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2348/tokivinner.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/marie.jpg

[Jamt]

As a curiosity, A hundred years ago many Jamt women, who are genetically the same as Trondheim area Norwegians, walked to town and bought false teeth when they became marriage ready at 17 years old. The bad teeth in the region are supposed to be because some kind of mineral deficiencies in the soil. This is anecdote but probably true.

[Jarl]

It is very interesting... All the women you posted Pallantides, seem to have rather full faces and slightly chubby cheeks. But the men tend to be rather moderately leptoprospic.

[Pallantides]

These are very typical Norwegian looks on avarage:



http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3198/rygnestad1.jpg

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/taddeiv.jpg

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/torjus.jpg

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/dreng1-1.jpg

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Schreinerske%20Collection/guro1.jpg

[SuuT]

It is very interesting... All the women you posted Pallantides, seem to have rather full faces and slightly chubby cheeks. But the men tend to be rather moderately leptoprospic.

Throughout Norway, there is a strong sexual dimorphic disparity. The Women trend toward Nordoid influenced Cromagnoids, where the inverse (Cromagnoid influenced Nordoids) tends to be true of the Men; if considering averages.

[Jarl]

Throughout Norway, there is a strong sexual dimorphic disparity. The Women trend toward Nordoid influenced Cromagnoids, where the inverse (Cromagnoid influenced Nordoids) tends to be true of the Men; if considering averages.

I think it is a general trend. Men tend to have longer faces. This seems to be a dimorphic trait. But in these examples the disimilarity is very noticable. I find English women much more gracile on average.

[Pallantides]

I have posted more general information and pictures from Setesdal and Valle in this thread.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12322
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Setesdal/setesdal22.jpg

[SuuT]

...in these examples the disimilarity is very noticable. I find English women much more gracile on average.

Bear in mind that you are looking at rural Aust-Agder people; indeed, Sørlandet is known for sleek beauties. The pictures whilst exemplary, do not tell the whole story of the whole country, or even the region from which they are taken.

[Jarl]

Ah! Nothing like the fertile, robust countryside folk! :P

[Jamt]

One hundred years ago 95% of Norway was more ore less rual for good sake. As was Sweden. Stockholm was mostly full of Germans before the industrial revolution. We have newer until recently been a urban people.

[Agrippa]

Throughout Norway, there is a strong sexual dimorphic disparity. The Women trend toward Nordoid influenced Cromagnoids, where the inverse (Cromagnoid influenced Nordoids) tends to be true of the Men; if considering averages.

Not as much as in the regions dominated by the Østerdal type and more clearly Nordid populations I guess, this being also evident in comparisons of respective groups. F.e. the new images provided by Pallantides from Oslo give a more balanced picture.

[SuuT]

One hundred years ago 95% of Norway was more ore less rual for good sake. As was Sweden. Stockholm was mostly full of Germans before the industrial revolution. We have newer until recently been a urban people.

You're absolutely correct. But there were always centres of trade, commerce and control (such as Oslo/Kristiana) that were the epicentre of Tribal control; and in these loci of Tribal control, there were definately Warrior Caste individuals that were definately of a different phenotype than the farmer/argiculturalist/herder of the regions more distant from these centres. So, I would be more exact in saying that modern Urban Regions are, and were, the centres of pre-Industrial focus when considering the phenotype of the individuals that - if existing yesteryear - we would now call "Urban"...lol, is that at all clear?:p


Not as much as in the regions dominated by the Østerdal type and more clearly Nordid populations I guess, this being also evident in comparisons of respective groups. F.e. the new images provided by Pallantides from Oslo give a more balanced picture.

I don't know, Brother... I know you consider Norway a Nordid country; but, I am comfortable in asserting that Norway - if considering the mean or average - is Nordiform Cromagnoid. But yes, some regions (as I have expressed in that other thread as to certain municipalities) are certainly textbook Nordid.

[The Khagan]

I don't know, Brother... I know you consider Norway a Nordid country; but, I am comfortable in asserting that Norway - if considering the mean or average - is Nordiform Cromagnoid. But yes, some regions (as I have expressed in that other thread as to certain municipalities) are certainly textbook Nordid.

Can one really consider any country a predominately Nordid country? Even Sweden, which is generally considered the bastion for the Nordic race, is only exemplified by a minority, relative to region of course.

[Agrippa]

Can one really consider any country a predominately Nordid country? Even Sweden, which is generally considered the bastion for the Nordic race, is only exemplified by a minority, relative to region of course.

I dont know, Nordid areas in Scandinavia are more pronounced than say most Alpinid areas, because the Alpinid areas are even more variable and mixed as a rule of thumb.

Obviously, if looking at a population, you have to count the Nordid part by counting all people which are Nordid influenced, which means, if someone is Nordid-Baltid in Sweden, he still is 50 percent Nordid and so on.

Going after this, Sweden (or better the Swedish people) is an absolutely Nordid country with all other influences being less significant and typical Nordid examplars still common, more common than all other typical examplars.

That way large parts of Germany are also predominantely Nordid - obviously you can't just count the typical ones, but the mixed ones too, as its about the percentage in the population.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

I dont know, Nordid areas in Scandinavia are more pronounced than say most Alpinid areas, because the Alpinid areas are even more variable and mixed as a rule of thumb.

Obviously, if looking at a population, you have to count the Nordid part by counting all people which are Nordid influenced, which means, if someone is Nordid-Baltid in Sweden, he still is 50 percent Nordid and so on.

Going after this, Sweden (or better the Swedish people) is an absolutely Nordid country with all other influences being less significant and typical Nordid examplars still common, more common than all other typical examplars.

That way large parts of Germany are also predominantely Nordid - obviously you can't just count the typical ones, but the mixed ones too, as its about the percentage in the population.

Total rubbish!!
Have you been to any of the Nordic countries? I have been to all (except Iceland) and I have lived in three of them. Talking about people being of nordid stock with "influences" is moronic. If there was any truth to this anthrobull, a better description would be that all Nordic peoples are "Baltid", "Cro Magnid" and "Borrebies" with "Nordid" influences.
Germany, is the most heterogenous nation in North Europe and far from pred. Nordid. Most Germans I've encountered have been "Alpines", "Cro Magnid", "Borrebies", "Baltids", "Dinarids" with "Nordid" influences.

[Jarl]

Total rubbish!!
Have you been to any of the Nordic countries? I have been to all (except Iceland) and I have lived in three of them. Talking about people being of nordid stock with "influences" is moronic. If there was any truth to this anthrobull, a better description would be that all Nordic peoples are "Baltid", "Cro Magnid" and "Borrebies" with "Nordid" influences.
Germany, is the most heterogenous nation in North Europe and far from pred. Nordid. Most Germans I've encountered have been "Alpines", "Cro Magnid", "Borrebies", "Baltids", "Dinarids" with "Nordid" influences.


Indeed I agree. That is what I wrote on the "On Nordic types" thread. To work out a Nordic standard one has to by definition look the means and variance of the Nordic populations. And local means in most Nordic are fairly robust. Northern countries are also closest to UP Cro Magnons. So the Nordic phenotypes constitute a spectrum from more robust forms (Tydals, CroMagnids and Faelids or whatever) to more gracile ones (Meds, North Atlantids and gracile Nordics), from brachycephalic phenotypes (Baltids, Alpinids and Dinarics) to more dolichocephalic elements.

This is a spectrum. However you chop it up into types - is ultimately subjective. Probably the best way is name a type after the population whose avergae character it examplifies. Thus a true Nordic is by default moderately leptoprosopic, FI of about 88-92 and moderately dolichocephalic to mesocephalic with CI of 76-77. This is a simple inference from the means of the living Scandinavian populations in past and future.

In this way the bulk of living Nordics are by definition "Nordic" coz they cluster near to the Nordic means. Baltic populations will not be "Nordic" coz they differ in the means etc. Logical.



Can one really consider any country a predominately Nordid country? Even Sweden, which is generally considered the bastion for the Nordic race, is only exemplified by a minority, relative to region of course.

The answer depends on what is your "Nordic standard". This was the subject of our discussion in the thread: "On Nordic types".

If you accept living Nordic material as you reference, like Retzius, Deniker, Czekanowski and Ripley, then your answer is yes. If you accept skeletal data, like Coon, then your answer is probably "no".





P.S.

There is also a distinction between pure Nordic and predominantly Nordic. For instance, even though in Poland pure Nordics constituted small minority, Polish anthro school quantified the deviations of the mixed types (like Subnordids) from both the "Nordic standard" and "Lapponoid standard". And most often they were more leaning towards the former than the latter. So even though mixed types constituted majority of Polish population (and no wonder, after all the pure types have been based on / named after the Nordic, Armenoid, Med and Lapponoid, so non-Polish populations), it was overall still predominantly Nordic ;)

However these guys - Czekanowski, Wanke etc. based their standards on studies of living populations. Their ideal Nordic had an FI of 92, HI of 77 and so. Consequently broad-faced Mongoloids with FI of under 80 were equally un-Nordic as narrow-faced Aethiopids or Orientalids with FIs of over 100.

[Agrippa]

Total rubbish!!
Have you been to any of the Nordic countries? I have been to all (except Iceland) and I have lived in three of them. Talking about people being of nordid stock with "influences" is moronic. If there was any truth to this anthrobull, a better description would be that all Nordic peoples are "Baltid", "Cro Magnid" and "Borrebies" with "Nordid" influences.
Germany, is the most heterogenous nation in North Europe and far from pred. Nordid. Most Germans I've encountered have been "Alpines", "Cro Magnid", "Borrebies", "Baltids", "Dinarids" with "Nordid" influences.

Well, "moronic" is not really an objective statement, especially if being not based on anthropological material, nor any sort of good argument.

These Danes f.e. are pred. Nordid:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12387

Pred. Nordid is Northern Germany and various parts of it, not all regions of course.

If counting all regions as pred. Nordid in which the Nordid type is the single most important form, based on the 6 basic types scheme in Europe, then there are definitely a lot of German regions pred. Nordid and most of Scandinavia.

I dont know for what traits you are looking for, but if you become cheeky, you probably show us what you think is representative for Scandinavians and I check it :cool:

But please no overweights in their 40's, but people in a good age, so from 20-30 - we have to consider "modern civilisation and habits" at work...

[Jarl]

Yup. I think there are other ways of expressing disagreement ;)

[Pallantides]

It's a tad funny that none of the Norwegian constitutional fathers fit the 'Nordid' ideal if we judge by their portraits.
http://www.eidsvoll1814.no/arch/_img/9044864.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Magnus_Falsen

I feel like I can advertise my own threads here:D
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12232
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12322
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12367

for more more modern pictures of Norwegians check this threads:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12320

...well the pizza guy who delivered to me today was a textbook Nordid.