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Loki
04-12-2014, 02:25 PM
Russia sets 4 conditions in return for aid to Ukraine (http://rt.com/news/ukraine-should-recognize-crimea-068/)

Ukraine should recognize Crimea’s independence, reform the country’s constitution, regulate the crisis in its eastern regions and guarantee the rights of Russian speakers if it wants to get financial help from Moscow, Russia’s finance minister has said.

“If Ukraine fulfils these four conditions, then Russia will be able to propose further steps on additional help both on financial and gas issues,” Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said after meeting with his German counterpart, Wolfgang Schauble, in Washington.

Deescalating tensions in eastern Ukraine should be peaceful, based on Ukraine’s legislation, “without discrimination against Russian-speaking population, without victims and bloodshed,” Siluanov said.

It is necessary for Ukraine to conduct constitutional reform, hold legitimate presidential elections and “form a government with which one may negotiate,” he said.

Ukraine’s gas debt is now estimated at over $2.2 billion. On Thursday, President Vladimir Putin wrote letters to the leaders of 18 European countries, including Germany and France, warning that Ukraine’s debt crisis had reached a “critical” level and could threaten transit to Europe. He also called for urgent cooperation, urging Russia’s partners in the West to take action.

According to German Chancellor Angela Merkel "there are many reasons to seriously take into account this message […] and for Europe to deliver a joint European response.”

In total, Moscow has subsidized Ukraine’s economy to the tune of $35.4 billion, coupled with a $3 billion loan tranche in December. Due to Ukraine’s gas debts, Gazprom revoked all discounts and is now charging $485 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas, a price Ukraine says it will not be able to pay.

The deteriorating economic situation is coupled with escalating tensions in Ukraine. The country’s Interior Ministry promised a harsh response to the riots in the east, especially in the “separatist regions” of Donetsk, Lugansk and Kharkov. The coup-appointed authorities said they would arrest all violators, "regardless of the declared slogans and party affiliation."

Eastern and southern Ukraine have been showing discontent with the new government in Kiev for weeks. Tensions escalated Monday when protesters in several cities started seizing local administration buildings. Major protests took place in the cities of Donetsk, Kharkov and Lugansk, while smaller actions and some clashes were reported in Odessa and Nikolayev.

After Donetsk activists proclaimed the region independent and demanded a referendum on its future status, Ukraine’s coup-imposed president Aleksandr Turchinov ordered the sending in of armed personnel and armored vehicles to the east.

At least 70 activists have been arrested in the course of the crackdown launched by Ukraine’s Interior Ministry in the eastern city of Kharkov. Most of them remain in prison, with 62 people detained for at least two months.

RandoBloom
04-12-2014, 02:26 PM
Lol, Russia wants to give out ultimatums? Thinks its in such a position :D?
It can dream on about it.

Loki
04-12-2014, 02:34 PM
Lol, Russia wants to give out ultimatums? Thinks its in such a position :D?
It can dream on about it.

It is, yes. It owes Russia billions of dollars, and needs more Russian gas every day.

RandoBloom
04-12-2014, 02:39 PM
It is, yes. It owes Russia billions of dollars, and needs more Russian gas every day.

Ukraine doesnt need Russia at all. Europe can provide everything

Loki
04-12-2014, 02:42 PM
Ukraine doesnt need Russia at all. Europe can provide everything

:picard2:

Sarmatian
04-12-2014, 03:24 PM
Ukraine doesnt need Russia at all. Europe can provide everything

Since you insisting... once again...

http://implied.facepalm.de/images/facepalm.jpg

RandoBloom
04-12-2014, 03:27 PM
Since you insisting... once again...

http://implied.facepalm.de/images/facepalm.jpg

Since you are a moron it is up to me to explain.
Germany/France/Italy etc can buy gas. What they do with it is their problem. They can give it to Ukraine.
Ukraine can also import gas from other places which Europe would no doubt fund in order to screw over Russia :)
Now that your slav brain has been enlightened I expect an apology :)

Sarmatian
04-12-2014, 03:35 PM
Russia sets 4 conditions in return for aid to Ukraine (http://rt.com/news/ukraine-should-recognize-crimea-068/)

Russia is free to demand any conditions it's see fit the situation and Ukraine is free to accept or refuse... if it can afford it :rolleyes:

After all Russia was helping out Ukraine greatly in a few recent years by introducing significant discounts on gas alone while turning a blind eye on all the openly anti-Russian rhetoric coming even from some Ukrainian officials. Apparently it wasn't helping Ukrainians but helping a greedy few to create a conditions where they can steal more.

Shkembe Chorba
04-12-2014, 03:38 PM
Russia is free to demand any conditions it's see fit the situation and Ukraine is free to accept or refuse... if it can afford it :rolleyes:

After all Russia was helping out Ukraine greatly in a few recent years by introducing significant discounts on gas alone while turning a blind eye on all the openly anti-Russian rhetoric coming even from some Ukrainian officials. Apparently it wasn't helping Ukrainians but helping a greedy few to create a conditions where they can steal more.

http://www.ldssmile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/shocked-gasp-gif.gif

Yeah, thats right, Ukraine is the greedy one :D

Sarmatian
04-12-2014, 03:43 PM
Since you are a moron it is up to me to explain.
Germany/France/Italy etc can buy gas. What they do with it is their problem. They can give it to Ukraine.
Ukraine can also import gas from other places which Europe would no doubt fund in order to screw over Russia :)
Now that your slav brain has been enlightened I expect an apology :)

In a recent meeting with his cabinet of ministers Putin was talking about letter he has sent to 18 European country's governments about the situation in Ukraine threatening all Russian gas supplies to Europe. In short the letter was about the intention of Russia to stop all supplies to Europe if European leaders will not take immediate actions to resolve the crisis in Ukraine. Putin is not Obama, he is not making an empty threats.

Sarmatian
04-12-2014, 03:45 PM
Yeah, thats right, Ukraine is the greedy one :D

What is it so hard to understand in the phrase 'it wasn't helping Ukrainians but helping a greedy few'?

RandoBloom
04-12-2014, 03:47 PM
In a recent meeting with his cabinet of ministers Putin was talking about letter he has sent to 18 European country's governments about the situation in Ukraine threatening all Russian gas supplies to Europe. In short the letter was about the intention of Russia to stop all supplies to Europe if European leaders will not take immediate actions to resolve the crisis in Ukraine. Putin is not Obama, he is not making an empty threats.

Azerbaijan, Libya, African countries, Mid-East would all gladly supply the Europe with gas :)
Not to mention that US produces more of it than Russia :)
Europe as well :)
He can threaten as much as he wants, he is irrelevant on world stage the moment he anexed Ukraine.


What is it so hard to understand in the phrase 'it wasn't helping Ukrainians but helping a greedy few'?

Yes, the greedy few who upheld Russian interests over interests of Ukraine. Which is why the revolt ocured

Stefan_Dusan
04-12-2014, 03:50 PM
Interesting enough something like this happened after Orange Revolution. Ukrainian protests overthrew Yanukovych for Yushchenko but Ukrainian economy plummeted along with several other European countries and Yanukovych was back.

So Europe be prepared to open up her already tight pockets for Ukraine or Ukraine will be back in Russia's lap, this time without Crim :laugh:

Sarmatian
04-12-2014, 03:59 PM
Azerbaijan, Libya, African countries, Mid-East would all gladly supply the Europe with gas :)
Not to mention that US produces more of it than Russia :)
Europe as well :)
He can threaten as much as he wants, he is irrelevant on world stage the moment he anexed Ukraine.

Sure... if you say so :rolleyes:

Borna
04-12-2014, 04:01 PM
Yea sure, Italians,Germans and French will buy gas to give it to Ukraine :picard2:

Stefan_Dusan
04-12-2014, 04:03 PM
This is opportunistic time for Germany to regain some independence and distance herself from Anglo-US foreign policy. Cheap Russian gas/oil benefits Germany greatly, and this move will only hurt her economy.

Sarmatian
04-12-2014, 04:05 PM
Yea sure, Italians,Germans and French will buy gas to give it to Ukraine :picard2:

Wouldn't it be easier just to give money to Ukraine so it can fulfill its obligations in a lawful manner without further damage to its image on the world's political stage?

Sarmatian
04-12-2014, 04:11 PM
This is opportunistic time for Germany to regain some independence and distance herself from Anglo-US foreign policy. Cheap Russian gas/oil benefits Germany greatly, and this move will only hurt her economy.

Next month Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan planning to sign documents to establish Eurasian Economic Union. They plan to introduce a new common currency - altyn. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?121871-Russia-Kazakhstan-and-Belarus-to-have-new-joint-currency)

Quite a few countries expressed their potential interest in joining. It can be the beginning of the end for US petrodollar hegemony in the world finances.

RandoBloom
04-12-2014, 05:56 PM
Yea sure, Italians,Germans and French will buy gas to give it to Ukraine :picard2:

Ukraine will give them money for its gas. They just need to buy it for Ukraine.

silentkiller
04-12-2014, 06:27 PM
The current price of gas was established back in the year of 2009, in the contract between Gazprom and Naftogaz. If I was in GazProm shoes, I would shut off the gas from the first month of non-payment. Gazprom supplies gas actually for free during 3 months already. But still, Russian government considers the possibility provide financial support, even on its own terms. Kiev illegal government can not even pay social obligations to their own people. Europe will be giving gas for free? Come on, I don't believe it. Russians (as well as any self-respecting government) do not have to give anything for free, especially after allegations of Yulia Tymoshenko. Actually, I want Russia to provide gas to Ukraine only after payment of a certain amount and 1 cubic meter of gas should cost $600. If they can't pay it's their problem, Ukraine is an independent country. And no financial assistance, death (or rather the divorce of Galicia and the rest of Ukraine) should be quick and painful.