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ChocolateFace
04-17-2014, 07:05 PM
At least one-fifth of the Neanderthal genome may lurk within modern humans, influencing the skin, hair and diseases people have today, researchers say.

Although modern humans are the only surviving human lineage, other groups of early humans used to live on Earth. The closest extinct relatives of modern humans were the Neanderthals, who lived in Europe and Asiauntil they went extinct about 40,000 years ago. The ancestors of modern humans diverged from those of Neanderthals between 550,000 and 765,000 years ago.

Recent findings revealed that Neanderthals interbred with ancestors of modern humans when modern humans began spreading out of Africa perhaps about 40,000 to 80,000 years ago, although some research suggests the migration began earlier. About 1.5 to 2.1 percent of the DNA of anyone outside Africa is Neanderthal in origin.However, scientists reasoned that the Neanderthal DNA found in one person might not be the same Neanderthal DNA of someone else.

"If you are 2 percent Neanderthal and I'm 2 percent Neanderthal, we might not have the same Neanderthal DNA between us," said study lead author Benjamin Vernot, a population geneticist at the University of Washington in Seattle. "We might have inherited different portions of the Neanderthal genome.

This logic suggested a significant portion of the Neanderthal genome might survive within the genomes of present-day humans. Past calculations suggested that anywhere from 35 to 70 percent of the Neanderthal genome could exist in modern people.
Hidden Neanderthal genes

To find out just how much of the Neanderthal genome might hide within modern humans, Vernot and his colleague Joshua Akey analyzed the genomes of 379 European and 286 East Asian individuals. This involved identifying the DNA that didn't look modern human, and determining when that DNA was introduced into the genome.

To see if any DNA in these genomes was not characteristic of modern humans, the researchers focused on the mutations within it. After lineages split as the ancestors of modern humans and Neanderthals did, the more time these groups diverge, the more likely they will accumulate different mutations that set these lineages apart. Therefore, the scientists concentrated on sections of people's DNA whose mutations looked significantly different from their counterparts in other people, suggesting this DNA came from a very divergent lineage.

To find out when this DNA was introduced, the researchers focused on the length of various sections of DNA. When people have offspring, the chromosomes (packets that hold the cells' DNA) that get passed down are broken, mixed and reattached beforehand, meaning each child is a blend of their parents. With every generation, DNA gets broken into shorter and shorter fragments. By studying the length of a DNA section, the investigators could deduce approximately when it made its way into the modern human genome. [Unraveling the Human Genome: 6 Molecular Milestones]The scientists focused on DNA that was not characteristic of modern humans and that apparently entered modern-human genomes about 50,000 years ago, when ancestors of modern humans are suspected to have mated with Neanderthals. They also compared this DNA with that found in Neanderthal fossils to confirm that it looked Neanderthal.

The researchers discovered that about 20 percent of the Neanderthal genome could be found in modern humans. Although the majority of genes inherited from Neanderthals apparently do not do anything remarkably different from their modern-human counterparts, "some of the genes are beneficial," said Vernot, who, along with Akey, detailed these findings online Jan. 29 in the journal Science.

For instance, they found "evidence that both Europeans and East Asians have inherited genes having something to do with the skin," Vernot told LiveScience. "That makes sense — skin is an important organ, protecting against pathogens, protecting against ultraviolet light."

An independent team involving evolutionary geneticist David Reich at Harvard Medical School and his colleagues found mutations inherited from Neanderthals were most often in genes related to keratin, a component of skin and hair. These genetic changes may have helped modern humans adapt to chillier environments outside Africa.

"It's always really nice to get independent confirmation of your findings," Vernot said.

Lots of mating?

Both research groups also found that some regions of the modern-human genome are devoid of Neanderthal DNA, including areas involving the testes and the X chromosome. This suggests certain Neanderthal mutations were incompatible with modern humans and were removed during evolution, perhaps because they reduced fertility, both research teams said. Reich's group also identified Neanderthal-linked gene variants associated with the risk of diseases such as lupus, Type 2 diabetes and Crohn's disease (a chronic inflammatory bowel disease).

Although 20 percent might sound like a lot of mingling happened between Neanderthals and the ancestors of modern humans, it could have resulted from as few as 300 mating events, Vernot said.

The research team's computer simulations of modern-human intermingling with Neanderthals suggest about 40 percent of the Neanderthal genome may actually survive within modern human genomes. "We just identified 20 percent is all," Vernot said.

To identify the other 20 percent or so of Neanderthal genome hidden within modern humans, the scientists estimate they would need about 1,000 individuals from any given modern-human population — for instance, Europeans — to find nearly all the Neanderthal DNA present there.

However, identifying Neanderthal DNA will be challenging. "Because we're so similar to Neanderthals, there could be many, many regions that are virtually identical, with no differences that we can tell apart," Vernot said.

The method the scientists used to identify Neanderthal DNA could also be used to discover the DNA of previously unknown relatives with whom the ancestors of modern humans may also have interbred. This strategy could even work without DNA from fossils of such previously unknown human lineages as a reference point, although having such fossil DNA would make this research significantly more accurate, Vernot said.
http://www.livescience.com/42933-humans-carry-20-percent-neanderthal-genes.html

Is it possible that the Neanderthal % given by 23andme is totally inaccurate?

Prisoner Of Ice
04-17-2014, 07:11 PM
The neanderthal % given by 23andme is probably much lower. Studies now say it's more like 4-8% in europeans because they identify more genes that belong to neanderthals.

Same study this article is based on shows signs of both positive and negative selection in neanderthal DNA. So the reason no one has some parts, is those parts were not as useful compared to what came from elsewhere. So it's more like evolution than replacement.

ChocolateFace
04-17-2014, 07:15 PM
The neanderthal % given by 23andme is probably much lower. Studies now say it's more like 4-8% in europeans because they identify more genes that belong to neanderthals.

Same study this article is based on shows signs of both positive and negative selection in neanderthal DNA. So the reason no one has some parts, is those parts were not as useful compared to what came from elsewhere. So it's more like evolution than replacement.

It's crazy to think that these companies have been feeding people the wrong info.Do you think theywill fix this?

Kalimtari
04-17-2014, 07:23 PM
I'm built like one (except my forehead and the chin, they're H. sapiens sapiens)

Alessio
04-17-2014, 07:26 PM
Isn't it possible that Neantherthals were just us but less developed (evelutionary wise) ? :p


The neanderthal % given by 23andme is probably much lower. Studies now say it's more like 4-8% in europeans because they identify more genes that belong to neanderthals.

Same study this article is based on shows signs of both positive and negative selection in neanderthal DNA. So the reason no one has some parts, is those parts were not as useful compared to what came from elsewhere. So it's more like evolution than replacement.

Prisoner Of Ice
04-17-2014, 07:28 PM
It's crazy to think that these companies have been feeding people the wrong info.Do you think theywill fix this?

They are being conservative, and probably feel dumb to change someone from 3% to 8% overnight. I doubt they will change any time soon.

I'd say every single ancestry composition thing like this is highly speculative and not to be taken super seriously. For example what exact genes are in 'caucasian component'? Maybe it is something highly selected on and it gives you a false positive. I suspect there's many false positives, and many false relationships due to common ancestry of ghost populations.

Linebacker
04-17-2014, 07:51 PM
I have to ask the expert of Neanderthals Melonhead do I look like I have any in me.

ChocolateFace
04-17-2014, 07:51 PM
I'm built like one (except my forehead and the chin, they're H. sapiens sapiens)

I know you are tall but I don't think Neanerthals were short. Everyone was shorter back then. They would probably be the same height today as us.

Prisoner Of Ice
04-17-2014, 07:55 PM
I have to ask the expert of Neanderthals Melonhead do I look like I have any in me.

No, I don't think so. You have skull closer to cromag, like me, and your body is narrow hips and relatively long legs. Most people just have influence in their skin and hair and immune system from neanderthals, probably, though. So your actual % might be anything.

Prisoner Of Ice
04-17-2014, 07:57 PM
I know you are tall but I don't think Neanerthals were short. Everyone was shorter back then. They would probably be the same height today as us.

Yeah, maybe even taller. The concurrent artifacts from other parts of the world were mostly shorter.

Linebacker
04-17-2014, 08:00 PM
No, I don't think so. You have skull closer to cromag, like me, and your body is narrow hips and relatively long legs. Most people just have influence in their skin and hair and immune system from neanderthals, probably, though. So your actual % might be anything.

No problem Melonhead.Cro-Magnid suits me just fine.Plus it sounds so cool.

Kalimtari
04-17-2014, 08:18 PM
I know you are tall but I don't think Neanerthals were short. Everyone was shorter back then. They would probably be the same height today as us.

I agree.

Neanderthal anatomy differed from modern humans in that they had a more robust build and distinctive morphological features, especially on the cranium, which gradually accumulated more derived aspects, particularly in certain isolated geographic regions. Evidence suggests they were much stronger than modern humans[1] while they were comparable in height; based on 45 long bones from at most 14 males and 7 females, Neanderthal males averaged 164–168 cm (65–66 in) and females 152–156 cm (60–61 in) tall.[2] Samples of 26 specimens in 2010 found an average weight of 77.6 kg (171 lb) for males and 66.4 kg (146 lb) for females.[3] A 2007 genetic study suggested some Neanderthals may have had red hair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_anatomy

Kalimtari
04-17-2014, 08:22 PM
btw, me vs Neanderthals:

Sub-cranial

Considerably more robust, stronger build check
Long collar bones, wider shoulders check
Barrel-shaped rib cage to some extent
Short, bowed shoulder blades to some extent
More laterally curve radius with a radial tuberosity placed more medially, a longer radial neck, a more ovoid radial head, and a well-developed interosseous crest.[12] to some extent
On the ulna, the trochlear notch is facing more anteriorly, the brachialis insertion is lower, the mid-shaft is larger, and the shaft is more sinusoidal.[12] to some extent
Larger round finger tips check
Large kneecaps check
Thick, bowed shaft of the thigh bones, bowed femur check
Short shinbone and calf bone, longer torso and proportionally shorter legs check
Long, gracile pelvic pubis (superior pubic ramus) very check

Insuperable
04-17-2014, 08:23 PM
Let's go paint some caves

Kalimtari
04-17-2014, 08:25 PM
Let's go paint some caves

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/abr/lowres/history-cave-caves-prehistoric-stoneage-dinosaur-abrn485l.jpg

Prisoner Of Ice
04-17-2014, 11:15 PM
Now I will have to do the checklist!




Cranial
Suprainiac fossa, a groove above the inion
Occipital bun, a protuberance of the occipital bone, which looks like a hair knot[8]
Projecting mid-face
less neotenized skull than humans[6]
Low, flat, elongated skull
A flat basicranium[9][10][11]
Supraorbital torus, a prominent, trabecular (spongy) brow ridge
1,500–1,900 cm3 (92–116 cu in) skull capacity (modern man: 1425 cm3)
Lack of a protruding chin (mental protuberance; although later specimens possess a slight protuberance)
Crest on the mastoid process behind the ear opening
No groove on canine teeth
A retromolar space posterior to the third molar
Bony projections on the sides of the nasal opening, projecting nose
Distinctive shape of the bony labyrinth in the ear
Larger mental foramen in mandible for facial blood supply


1. Suprainiac fossa, a groove above the inion

What on earth? lol. Checking on google it's a bump on the back of the head some neck muscle attaches too. I have crazy musculature on neck and shoulders, so no big surprise I have it.

2. Occipital bun, a protuberance of the occipital bone, which looks like a hair knot[8]

Not really.

3. Projecting mid-face

Yes but overall face is pretty flat, more like ancient classic greeks.

4. less neotenized skull than humans[6]

I aint no little kid.

5. Low, flat, elongated skull

Not really, I have a fairly high vault.

6. A flat basicranium[9][10][11]

I'm not going to cut my head off to find out.

7. Supraorbital torus, a prominent, trabecular (spongy) brow ridge

I have a pretty good brow ridge but it's hidden by my cranial ridges.

8. 1,500–1,900 cm3 (92–116 cu in) skull capacity (modern man: 1425 cm3)

Probably 1700-1800

9. Lack of a protruding chin (mental protuberance; although later specimens possess a slight protuberance)

I have a hell of a chin.

10. Crest on the mastoid process behind the ear opening

Huge one.

11. No groove on canine teeth

Check, plus I have (now had since I got caps on them) the largest canine teeth ever.

12. A retromolar space posterior to the third molar

I could stuff a ping pong ball back there.

13. Bony projections on the sides of the nasal opening, projecting nose

Bony projections yes, nose is not that big though so not sure.

14. Distinctive shape of the bony labyrinth in the ear

My anatomy-fu has failed me.

15. Larger mental foramen in mandible for facial blood supply

Probably so but I'd have to get xrays I guess.



Sub-cranial
Considerably more robust, stronger build
Long collar bones, wider shoulders
Barrel-shaped rib cage
Short, bowed shoulder blades
More laterally curve radius with a radial tuberosity placed more medially, a longer radial neck, a more ovoid radial head, and a well-developed interosseous crest.[12]
On the ulna, the trochlear notch is facing more anteriorly, the brachialis insertion is lower, the mid-shaft is larger, and the shaft is more sinusoidal.[12]
Larger round finger tips
Large kneecaps
Thick, bowed shaft of the thigh bones, bowed femur
Short shinbone and calf bone, longer torso and proportionally shorter legs
Long, gracile pelvic pubis (superior pubic ramus)



Yes to all of these but I have no idea about the ulnar bone one.

Prisoner Of Ice
04-17-2014, 11:17 PM
Let's go paint some caves

If you know what I mean. Probably best pickup like of 30k BC.

wvwvw
04-18-2014, 02:41 PM
Wanted: 'Adventurous woman' to give birth to Neanderthal man - Harvard professor seeks mother for cloned cave baby
Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School believes he can reconstruct Neanderthal DNA
His ambitious plan requires a human volunteer willing to allow the DNA to be put into stem cells, then a human embryo
By ALLAN HALL and FIONA MACRAE
PUBLISHED: 15:36 GMT, 20 January 2013 | UPDATED: 09:16 GMT, 21 January 2013

Neanderthals have been extinct for 33,000 years, but George Church, a genetics professor at Harvard Medical School, believes he can bring them back with the help of a surrogate human mother.

They're usually thought of as a brutish, primitive species.

So what woman would want to give birth to a Neanderthal baby?

Yet this incredible scenario is the plan of one of the world’s leading geneticists, who is seeking a volunteer to help bring man’s long-extinct close relative back to life.

Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School believes he can reconstruct Neanderthal DNA and resurrect the species which became extinct 33,000 years ago.

His scheme is reminiscent of Jurassic Park but, while in the film dinosaurs were created in a laboratory, Professor Church’s ambitious plan requires a human volunteer.

He said his analysis of Neanderthal genetic code using samples from bones is complete enough to reconstruct their DNA.
He said: ‘Now I need an adventurous female human.

‘It depends on a hell of a lot of things, but I think it can be done.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265402/Adventurous-human-woman-wanted-birth-Neanderthal-man-Harvard-professor.html#ixzz2zFUq3c00

Caismeachd
04-18-2014, 02:49 PM
As someone who is neanderthal in the 98th percentile at 3.1%, I wonder what my "true" neanderthal input would be.

There is a test here http://www.interpretome.com/ that also calculates neanderthal ancestry but it breaks it down differently by telling you how many alleles you have rather than a simple percentage.

Black Wolf
04-19-2014, 11:37 AM
The Cro-Magnons of Europe were known to be fairly tall people on the whole for their time. Males could grow to be over 6 feet tall while the Neanderthals of Europe they encountered were considerably shorter on average. I may be wrong but I think Neanderthal males from Western Europe averaged as being around 5'5'' usually.

Neanderthal
04-19-2014, 01:04 PM
The Cro-Magnons of Europe were known to be fairly tall people on the whole for their time. Males could grow to be over 6 feet tall while the Neanderthals of Europe they encountered were considerably shorter on average. I may be wrong but I think Neanderthal males from Western Europe averaged as being around 5'5'' usually.

Probably a weird case of hybrid vigor. They were mixed with the Neanderthal anyway.

Prisoner Of Ice
04-19-2014, 06:36 PM
Yeah people forget, they were no doubt themselves heavily mixed to neanderthals.

There's not many complete skeletons though so we don't really know.

sql
07-21-2015, 10:36 AM
I wonder why not a single modern human has a neanderthal derived haplogroup. Hopefully we'll find someone.